SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 12

Summary

Episode Overview

Title: SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 12
Podcast: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Date: February 12, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Key Guests: Brian Fitzgibbons (USPA Nationwide Security), Scott Eicher (FBI Forensics/Cast), Dave Mack (Crime Stories Reporter), Eric Faddis (Defense Attorney, Ex-Prosecutor), Dr. Sherry Schwartz (Forensic Psychologist)

Nancy Grace and an expert panel delve into new developments on day 12 of the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, mother of TV host Savannah Guthrie. The episode dissects fresh evidence from the crime scene, new surveillance footage, and the ongoing emotional and investigative efforts to locate Nancy Guthrie, while grappling with law enforcement missteps, chain-of-custody concerns, and the heartache of the Guthrie family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Forensic Tent at Crime Scene [01:14–09:35]

• Purpose of the Tent:

  • Used to protect the integrity and confidentiality of forensic evidence gathering on the Guthrie home’s porch.
  • Shields sensitive procedures from public/spectator view and prevents contamination.
    • “This is very likely done to protect whatever those agents are doing... and that speculation isn't being generated from whatever's happening.” – Brian Fitzgibbons [02:15]
    • “Typically, a tent like that is put up when evidence is being recovered. Sensitive evidence, agree or disagree?” – Nancy Grace [02:46]

• Techniques Employed:

  • Use of laser measurement equipment to create a 3D model of the scene for evidence such as suspect height estimation.
    • “It'll give us like a model of how tall the arches, all the bricks, where they are at.” – Scott Eicher [03:33]

• Chain of Custody Concerns:

  • Scene may have been released too soon, risking contamination—critical if the case goes to trial.
    • “There has to be proof that what you're giving to the jury is authentic, that it hasn't been contaminated.” – Eric Faddis [07:24]

• Family Trauma:

  • The sight of the forensic tent is emotionally devastating, often associated with recovery of remains.
    • “The family... already being in this emotional limbo... having to wait and see...” – Dr. Sherry Schwartz [09:02]

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2. New Surveillance Video and Possible Suspect [09:35–13:17]

• Video Findings:
  • New footage from a neighbor’s Ring camera at 1:53am (minutes after the presumed time of abduction) shows a man with two backpacks, possibly interacting with someone behind a gate.
    • “It appears that he's dealing with trash. And he's got another backpack there.” – Dave Mack [10:15]
    • Nancy and panel note the odd behavior (passing items, possible accomplice).
• Significance:
  • The man was in proximity to Guthrie’s home, in the early morning, matching the timeline of Nancy’s disappearance.
  • Video quickly forwarded to the FBI for analysis.

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3. Family’s Emotional Call & Community Engagement [13:17–17:38]

• Savannah Guthrie’s Video:

  • Released a poignant video of family memories, intended to humanize her mother and elicit empathy.
    • “This is an incredibly emotional and humanizing video... keep people inspired to persevere in this case.” – Brian Fitzgibbons [16:25]
    • Nancy believes Savannah is "speaking directly to the kidnapper" or someone who knows them [17:09].

• Encouragement to Public:

  • Urging neighbors to review their own security footage and raise awareness.

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4. Discovery of Two Gloves Near Scene [18:49–31:23]

• Findings and Significance:
  • Two black gloves, matching those seen on the porch suspect, found separately, less than 1.5 miles from the Guthrie home.
    • “What is significant about the location of these gloves? Less than a mile and a half from Nancy Guthrie's home.” – Nancy Grace [18:49]
• Law Enforcement Search:
  • Large-scale, focused roadside searches by hundreds of agents; likely triggered by specific tips or data.
    • “We're talking hundreds in a very structured search of a very specific area and finding what they're looking for.” – Dave Mack [38:36]
• Forensic Potential:
  • Gloves could yield DNA, hair follicles, molecular tracing to manufacturer/batch/store.
    • “It is a big deal to find these gloves and hope hopefully they are related to Ms. Guthrie's kidnapping or missing.” – Scott Eicher [29:52]

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5. Challenges and Emotional Toll of the Investigation [31:23–37:26]

• Resilience in the Face of Setbacks:
  • Nancy and panel acknowledge discouragement after a major suspect was cleared; discuss emotional toll on investigators and family.
    • “If this isn't the person and this person... isn't a suspect anymore, then they keep looking. And that means there's still opportunity, right?” – Dr. Sherry Schwartz [34:14]
    • “What a roller coaster of emotions for this family...” – Eric Faddis [36:41]
• Importance of Perseverance:
  • Panel reflects on staying vigilant and why hope must remain alive, especially for the family.

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6. Additional Investigative Developments & Theories [37:26–54:00+]

• Door-to-Door and Terrain Searches:
  • Intensive searches in rugged terrain, targeting roadside areas and the neighborhood of Nancy Guthrie’s daughter, Annie.
• Detainment of Similar-Looking Individual:
  • Delivery man Carlo Palazzo was mistakenly detained due to resemblance; later cleared.
    • “I didn't do anything, to be honest. Like, I'm innocent.” – Carlo Palazzo [41:49]
• Analysis of Porch Video:
  • Noted inconsistencies: suspect at times wears a backpack and/or gun, at other times neither.
  • Theories:
    • Two-person involvement likely to abduct an elderly woman surreptitiously.
    • Vehicle parked nearby, perhaps an accomplice waiting [43:10–45:01].
• Porch Camera Recovery and Evidence Chain:
  • Nest Cam footage was recovered with help from the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey team, contrary to initial sheriff statements.
    • “CAST was definitely an integral part in that aspect.” – Scott Eicher [53:06]
  • Possible yet unreleased audio from porch camera; hope for further clues.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On procedural missteps:
  • “If they're doing this now, why now and not 12 days ago? ...This would seem to be something crime scene specialists would do on the first or possibly second day.” – Eric Faddis [07:24]
• On perseverance:
  • “You never know who might hear something, who might see something... staying vigilant, staying engaged, and helping to bring Nancy Guthrie home.” – Dr. Sherry Schwartz [35:23]
• On DNA evidence parallels:
  • “Think about Brian Kohberger... just that much (DNA), and no, Kohberger did not have a record, so you couldn't compare it to DNA already in the system... It just takes one.” – Nancy Grace [23:40]
• On the impact of family appeals:
  • “You're sending a message to the potential kidnappers that this, this person has family, has kids, is a loved one... hopefully that preserve her and make sure that she stays alive.” – Scott Eicher [16:45]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Forensic tent & evidence recovery: [01:14–09:35]
• Surveillance video discussion: [09:35–13:17]
• Family/emotional video, public engagement: [13:17–17:38]
• Discovery and analysis of gloves: [18:49–31:23]
• Emotional setbacks, perseverance: [31:23–37:26]
• Massive search details and neighborhood canvassing: [37:26–40:52]
• False suspect detainment (Carlo Palazzo): [40:52–42:02]
• Porch video analysis, theories: [42:08–49:27]
• Porch cam tech, Nest/Google involvement: [49:27–54:00]
• Call to action/closing: [54:54–end]

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Style & Tone

The atmosphere is both urgent and empathetic, balancing forensics-driven analysis with authentic emotional support for the Guthrie family. Nancy Grace maintains her trademark tenacity, pushing experts for specifics and highlighting both investigative process and human cost.

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Conclusion / Call to Action

The panel reinforces the need for community vigilance, reviewing of home footage, and sharing of information to help solve the case. The episode closes with a direct plea for listeners to come forward with any tips that could help in the search for Nancy Guthrie.

If you have information, contact:

• FBI tip line: 1-800-225-5324
• Anonymous tips: 520-882-7463

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. This February, Aldous Hodge returns as Alex Cross, your favorite detective on television for season two of the hit show Cross, now streaming exclusively on Prime Video. Fresh off his capture of the infamous serial killer, the fanboy Cross teams up with the FBI to hunt down a vigilante serial killer targeting corrupt billionaires. As the case unfolds, Cross navigates a moral crossroads where the lines between justice and vengeance are blurred. Catch season two of Cross, with a new episode dropping weekly now streaming only on Prime Video. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother Nancy GUTHRIE Missing Day 12 I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. We are at an hour of desperation and we need your help. What happened? Was this really a kidnapping? Totally terrifying situation. You don't know what, what is real, what is fake.

[Scott Eicher]

At this point, this criminal did mess up somewhere and they will be caught.

[Nancy Grace]

As we go to air, we have learned that a tent, a forensics evidentiary tent has been put on up outside Nancy Guthrie's home. Let's take a look at this. This was first reported by Matt Thin, fnc, a tent going up outside the front door of Nancy Guthrie's home. The first comment was someone opining that a body had been found. I don't think that is the case, although I understand why the viewer said that. Again, that's from Matt Finn, fnc. Joining me, an all star panel to make sense of what we are learning right now. Straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons. You and I have been on plenty of crime scenes. Why a tent at this juncture outside Nancy Guthrie's front porch?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah. What's unique about this crime scene is you've got not only your standard national media attention, or I shouldn't say standard, you've got an incredible amount of national media attention. YouTubers, members of the public out there. This is very likely done to protect whatever those agents are doing in there. So the equipment they're bringing in isn't being analyzed, the people aren't being photographed as they're working, and that speculation isn't being generated from whatever's happening.

[Nancy Grace]

But who cares about speculation, Brian? Whatever is speculated doesn't matter to the FBI. Typically, a tent like that is put up when evidence is being recovered. Sensitive evidence, agree or disagree? Or Fitzgibbons, when the evidence, as I said, was so sensitive, you don't want it. How can I say polluted or destroyed in any way?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

I would agree and I would say that this is done more for concealment and moreover, for the suspect to be aware of exactly where they're looking. So this is protecting the integrity of what they're doing.

[Nancy Grace]

What about it, Scott Eicher?

[Scott Eicher]

So there's some good equipment that we can use set into that little foyer area, and it'll laser measure that whole area. So it'll give us like a model of how tall the arches, all the bricks, where they are at. So it'd be a very detailed picture using lasers to get that documented also. I mean, have we ever seen anybody in there looking for hairs? I mean, this guy stood there for a while working with the door, bringing in shrubbery. Did he shed some hairs? Did he shed some DNA? They might be just, you know, meticulously looking for anything that's still in that front porch area.

[Nancy Grace]

Eicher, could you explain the laser equipment you are describing that would take specific measurements?

[Dave Mack]

Yes.

[Scott Eicher]

It's a device you set in the middle of a room, and it takes laser measurements all around to give you exactly the model of that room. We've used it in numerous different cases. Even in the theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado.

[Nancy Grace]

You were motioning with your hands when you said you put the device in the middle of a room and it takes measurements all around and you were making a spiral gesticulation. What does that mean?

[Scott Eicher]

Well, the laser has to go all. It kind of rotates around in measuring all the different parts of the room. So it gives you a full measurement of how far this wide it is, how deep it is, how tall it is. We need measurements on that arch also.

[Dave Mack]

Right.

[Scott Eicher]

One of those things is going to help us give a height to this gentleman that's walking to the door. Right. Because we now can say, oh, when he stood up, he reached this brick in this archway, so he's that tall. So there's a lot of information we can get from these type videos.

[Nancy Grace]

So why would they need the tent to do that? To block off the arch, to get the interior dimensions of the room, of the porch?

[Scott Eicher]

Yes, that's correct. And prevent from that laser going further.

[Nancy Grace]

Mm.

[Dave Mack]

Mm.

[Nancy Grace]

How does the laser work?

[Scott Eicher]

It takes those measurements, bouncing it off the wall, making the measurements of how far that each room is and how far wide it is, how tall it is.

[Nancy Grace]

Does it need darkness?

[Scott Eicher]

It doesn't have to have darkness, but I think that maybe that tent would. We don't want the laser to shoot out to the street.

[Dave Mack]

Right.

[Scott Eicher]

We're just trying to get the dimensions of that room.

[Dave Mack]

Nancy. The tent was taken down after a couple of hours. However, we got a good Hint as to what was taking place that we couldn't actually see. When one of the investigators was leaving the scene, he was carrying a forensic height board. This is a tool used to determine the height of a suspect. When you don't actually have the suspect in front of you, you just have marking areas around where that person had been. So the forensic hypeboard giving us a clue as to what was taking place while they had the tent up earlier today. And again, Nancy, it has been taken down.

[Nancy Grace]

Wow. Okay, now we've heard from Eicher, Scott Eicher, we've heard from Brian Fitzgibbons, Eric Faddis, you were mentioning earlier about how the scene was released too soon and various people could go up and take photos of Nancy's blood. I'm going to circle this back to the tent. That's a problem. If there ever is a trial regarding chain of custody.

[Eric Faddis]

Oh, that's exactly right. I mean, in order to enter evidence at a trial, there has to be a sound chain of custody. There has to be proof that what you're giving to the jury is authentic, that it hasn't been contaminated, that it hasn't been tampered with. And that is always a significant issue when there are seen containment problems like in this case. And if they're doing this now, why now and not 12 days ago? This would seem to be something that would crime scene specialists would do on the first or possibly second day.

[Nancy Grace]

Faddis, you're absolutely correct. And that would be a great question for Nanos, the sheriff, because 12 days ago, the FBI had not been invited in. Right. They were not given jurisdiction. So all of these things were just thrown out the window. Nothing happened. No video, no measurements of the area. We didn't need measurements of the area because we didn't have the video of the guy. And it just builds and builds and builds. So you're right about that. Dr. Sherry Schwartz, what about the fact that you heard Fitzgibbon say he thinks the tent is largely for secretiveness, to keep what's happening a secret. I wonder also how it affects the family when they see evidence being carted out, when they realize what's going on. He also mentioned, he and Iker both, that you don't want to tip the perp off about every single thing that's happening.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

And all of those are excellent points. But the family is the first group of people that I thought of when we found out that a tent was going up, because we associate that with finding remains of a person. And so I can only imagine for them already being in this emotional limbo that they're in and having to wait and see, just like the rest of us in many ways, and how hard this must be for them.

[Nancy Grace]

And all the speculation. When you see a tent like that going up around your mom's home, it's got to just like the first comment was, oh, I pray to God in heaven they're not bringing out a body, because we're used to seeing that go up in the middle of nowhere where you found a body. We've seen it over and over and over. Another development. Dave Mack joining us, crime stories investigative reporter. I want you to take a look at some video that we found of this guy in the area in the early morning hours. And this is from a neighbor's security cam. Let's see the video, please. Dave Mack, what do we know about this?

[Dave Mack]

Well, Nancy, we know very little. But look, you can see the man's head clearly. You can see what he's doing. It appears that he's dealing with trash. And he's got another backpack there.

[Nancy Grace]

Why isn't he putting it in the trash can?

[Dave Mack]

Well, he's reaching over. I. It seems to me somebody's handing him something. Or he's reaching over far enough to get another bag. And now here we go past the past dumpster. He's walking back towards wherever he. And this was taken a couple of miles away from the Guthrie home at about the same time. So, I mean, Nancy, I don't know what's going on.

[Nancy Grace]

Let's say it again, please.

[Dave Mack]

I don't know what's going on. North Tucson, you know, in the middle of the night. But it seems odd that we would have multiple people.

[Nancy Grace]

That's a backpack. Wait a minute. That's a backpack. At first I thought it was a trash bag. It looks more like a second backpack.

[Dave Mack]

It is, actually. You see the strap hanging down there? Now, I didn't notice that either. You can hear the sound of cans in that bag, though. You hear something. And it has been submitted to the FBI. This video was turned over to them right away before it was posted for all of us to see. But again, you know, follow him.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to see where he goes.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Dave Mack]

Trying to see.

[Nancy Grace]

Keep going, Dave. It is a second backpack.

[Dave Mack]

Yep.

[Nancy Grace]

And he's not getting in the vehicle.

[Dave Mack]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

And now the thing is, he do Wait. Watch this, Dave. He hangs it over the side. He reaches over. Something's happening on the other side of that wall.

[Dave Mack]

There's somebody else over there, I think, because he's getting something from somebody or. I mean, why not? If he's. He's not reaching far enough over to getting something from the ground, you see, he's only reaching, what, three feet down is all he can get to.

[Nancy Grace]

Is he trying to get in behind that gate? Trying to reach around to find the latch and get in. And he's not going to the car. So who is he and why is he there? And about what time of the day or night did this take place?

[Dave Mack]

Dave Mack, we're at 1:53am and this was caught on a ring camera, the ring app. And that's why we're getting just that one angle. But again, you're talking at 1:53 in the morning, February 1st. So this is taking place at the same time. Time it takes, you know, six minutes difference between the 147 on Nancy Guthrie's front porch. And here we go, not far from her house, a guy walking around with backpacks at the same time, within minutes. Again, this just seems beyond strange. You've got a guy with two backpacks. He's handing it over the fence. He's grabbing something else. You saw him. He's got backpack in his left arm. He's reaching with his right arm. And now he comes back up. He's holding the left bag up and reaching with his right. He's resting that left bag on that brick wall there.

[Nancy Grace]

It looks to me that Jackie's right. He looks like he's trying to get in that gate. Guys, this is posted on ring neighbor app. It's an app. A lot of people have them in neighborhoods, and everybody in the neighborhood can look at it. Ring neighbor app. We're not saying this guy is the perpetrator. The reason it caught our attention is. And it's posted by iamylee on X and it's from the ring neighbor app. And the reason, Dave, that you and I are so interested in it is it's around 2am in the morning of the same night Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped. Starting around 1:47am 2:00am There is a spike in her heart monitor. Her pacemaker spikes, and in 20 minutes or so, she's gone. This is just a few miles from Nancy's home. Again, we're not saying that this is the perp. I'm saying this was posted on the neighbor, the ring neighbor app a few miles from Nancy's home and the night she disappears, within minutes of her disappearance. Who is this guy and what is he doing? Does that gate lead to a back alley? Does it lead to a back road to Nancy Guthrie's house. This has been sent to the FBI. And tonight we are calling on all neighbors. Everyone, look at your ring apps. Look at your door cams. This is how the case is going to be cracked wide open by someone seeing something. A girlfriend, a wife, a friend noticing something unusual. It's going old school right now in the search for Nancy Guthrie. Also, in addition to that tent going up and the discovery of that video on the ring neighbor, apparently Savannah has just released a heartbreaking, a poignant video. Let's watch. She accompanies this with music. And there you see Nancy Guthrie with her little girls in her youth. That's Savannah and her sister Annie. There's the still, including brother Cameron. This is outside, we believe, the very porch where she was led out of the home, leaving behind blood drops. I believe I know why Savannah released this. Number one, her heart is breaking, breaking. And she's going through all of these videos and photos of her mom praying desperately her mom is still alive and we brought home soon. Fitzgibbons. I think there's another reason she released it.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah, I mean, this is it. This is an incredibly emotional and humanizing video. You know, this is going to go like wildfire across the country. This is going to keep folks, as you were talking about earlier in the show, keep people inspired to persevere in this case.

[Nancy Grace]

What about it, Eicher?

[Scott Eicher]

I agree. And you're also sending a message to the potential kidnappers that this, this person has family, has kids, is a loved one. You want to humanize this person, not just, not being just a victim that you don't care about. Now you're showing she's a mother and has a family, hopefully that preserve her and make sure that she stays alive.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Sherry Schwartz, this is a desperate hour. I believe Savannah is sending this, speaking directly to the kidnapper.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

I agree, Nancy. She is definitely trying to appeal to whatever scintilla of empathy that the kidnapper may have. But if not them, then somebody close to them who recognizes them, who knows it's them. This may appeal to them and they might go to the police, hopefully, and tell what they know.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, you said something really important just then. Dr. Sherry Schwartz to Eric Faddis. Dr. Sherry pointed out not just to them, but someone that knows them. Maybe a mom that knows their son, their husband, their son in law has Nancy Guthrie. And only a mom would really understand this video. The bond between a child and their mother. The last thing you want to do is separate a mother from their child. Eric. I think that's how the case may crack someone, a girlfriend, a wife, a mom, knowing their son, their husband, their ex has.

[Eric Faddis]

Nancy, you know, someone knows something here, that this was not done in a way where only the kidnapper is aware of this. I am relatively certain that someone around them, a friend, a family member, an acquaintance, a co worker, somebody knows something. And these videos help to sort of galvanize the community and also speak to the emotional resonance within those people, hopefully such that they would come forward and tell what they know.

[Nancy Grace]

Late in the evening, Eastern time, we learn the discovery of a glove. That's the first thing we learn. It looks amazingly similar to the gloves worn by the perp on Nancy Guthrie's front porch. Look at this guy. See those? That. Then we learn not just one glove, but two gloves found, found by the side of the road. Now, you may think debris, people throw everything out of their cars, everything ends up on the side of the road. But what is significant about the location of these gloves? Less than a mile and a half from Nancy Guthrie's home. The crime scene yesterday, we saw. And let's see the footage of it, please. We saw LA law enforcement. It was the FBI out literally beating the bushes in multiple locations, all on road signs. We saw them in Campbell, we saw them in Estrada, out combing the area beside roadways. And then, wow, what a coincidence. That's from our friends at Fox News, by the way. What a coincidence. They're looking in multiple locations by the roadway and they find the gloves by the roadway. This as the question arises, cast cellular analysis survey team with the FBI. They were the ones. I'm telling you, we haven't heard it from Cash Patel. We haven't heard it yet. But mark my words, they were the ones that unearthed that porch video. It had to be them. And I'll explain with you along with a founding member from the cast team joining us, how they did it. But my question tonight is, is there audio? My little ring door cam has audio. Bet this did, too. And what about the other cameras in the home and around the home? Is there more to come? Are they working feverishly at this moment to get more evidence and lead us to the ident of the kidnapper? And God willing, Aldous Hodge returns as Alex Cross, your favorite detective on television for season two of the hit show Cross, now streaming exclusively on Prime Video, critics call season one one of the year's best shows with over 40 million viewers worldwide. The story continues with with a new season from creator Ben Watkins and based on characters created by James Patterson. Cross is Washington D.C. 's most brilliant homicide detective and forensic psychologist. Fresh off his capture of the infamous serial killer, the fanboy Cross teams up with the FBI to hunt down a vigilante serial killer targeting corrupt billionaires. As the case unfolds, Cross navigates a moral crossroads as where the lines between justice and vengeance are blurred. Cross is back and better than ever this season. Get ready for a new case. Higher stakes, but the same Cross. Watch season two of Cross, now streaming only on Prime Video. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to Dave Mack, crime stories, investigative reporter. Go, Dave.

[Dave Mack]

You know, Nancy, yesterday we were talking about this incredible search that's going on and how many agents are in the field? We're talking hundreds were out searching yesterday. And a mile and a half, I mean, a mile and a half from Nancy Guthrie's home, on the side of the road, they find a black glove. You saw the video from the porch, and it looks like the pictures we're seeing of the glove. And Nancy, it's shocking that they told us where they were looking and they found it. So they're operating on tips that we're not aware of. They've been given information or have unearthed their own information to know where to look. And specifically, I mean, you're talking about finding a needle in a stack of needles. Here they find a glove just off the road a mile and a half from Nancy Guthrie's home.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to talk about the possibilities. It just takes one. Just one. One hair. One little speck of touch DNA. Think about Brian Kohberger. No motive, no confession, didn't find the weapon, no connection between him and the victims. But we got DNA. We got DNA. Deoxyribonucleic acid. A tiny amount of DNA on the snap, the little button snap on the hilt of a knife. A knife hilt, just that much. And no, Kohberger did not have a record, so you couldn't compare it to DNA already in the system. Another hurdle. Genetic genealogy experts went all the way up his family tree. They staked out his home, they got his dad's DNA, and that information gave them enough to get a search warrant to use to compare his DNA. And it was. I wrote it down last night. 1 in 5.37. Octillion match to Brian Kohberger. It just takes one. Let's talk about the gloves. Now, first we heard there was one glove. Now we are hearing there are two gloves. Dave Mack, which one is it?

[Dave Mack]

Two gloves found, but not together in separate areas. The one glove was found right off the road. That's the One we've been told about about a mile and a half from Nancy Guthrie's home. A second glove found away from where the first glove was found. They're not indicating exactly where that one was found, but we've been told two gloves.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me, Brian Fitzgibbons. He is the director of operations, USPA Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators that go around the world finding missing people. Fitzgibbons, don't you know that the perp was hot? Not necessarily hot. Temperature wise is in the evening, it may very well have been cool outdoors, but from all those clothes and it looks like he was wearing layers of clothes and I got a theory on that. The stress of breaking in her home and getting an 84 year old woman out. He's got on layers of clothes including a ski mask or a balaclava, gloves, the works. He gets in the car, he's got her in the car and he is sweating bullets. Fitzgibbons and can't you just see him rolling down the window, stripping off a glove, throwing it. Stripping off a glove, throwing it. Hence the separation of where they're located. Keeping one hand on the steering wheel. Just play it out. Unless of course someone was driving with him. Go ahead, hypothesize with me for sure.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

And this is a common theme in a number of violent crimes like this that perpetrators will discard items of clothing, pieces of equipment that they used, weapons along the roadways around the near the crime scene or a small distance away. We actually had a murder case here locally that was solved when detectives found a polo shirt five miles from the murder scene that was discarded out the window by the suspect himself. You know, they had DNA and blood from the victim on it. And this was five miles down the road, just on the side of the road found by a dog walker. So you know, this is very common that they would want to dump those items. Especially as he's driving in those moments after committing this crime. He's as he's moving along the roadways. That's some of the most vulnerable time for him because he's wondering has police been called, are they searching for his vehicle in those moments right after the crime?

[Nancy Grace]

You know, last night we were having quite the discussion regarding what could be, if these are the right gloves, what can be obtained from the gloves. There's a lot. Number one, does anybody remember the name tot mom Casey Anthony? If you will recall, in the prosecution of Casey Anthony and the murder of her daughter Kelly Anthony, she was acquitted. We learned well, many people learned for the first time I learned it way back when in the Atlanta child murders, that plastic, such as plastic trash bags and plastic gloves each have a particular molecular makeup, a molecular signature that that company uses to create their product. Unlike any other company, trash bags and plastic gloves can be traced to a batch and a lot down to where they were sent and where they were sold. You ever heard of anything like that? Joining me, Scott Eicher, forensics expert, founding member of the FBI's cellular analysis survey team. Not only that, 22 years, former police officer, home in the homicide unit with the Norfolk, Virginia, pd. Scott, thank you for being with us. What do you make of that? The fact that they FBI, not local law enforcement, they don't have the facilities, they don't have the wherewithal to do that, nor should they, really. It can be done, and it's not that hard.

[Scott Eicher]

I totally agree with that. It kind of brings me back to the Atlanta bombings because I was working that with the FBI, with Eric Rudolph back then, and the bomb components were all individual. And we were able to kind of go back and into each component. We could figure out where was that made, where was that sold? So those are the tracks that the FBI is going to be doing with these gloves. What's the composition? Obviously the DNA, any hair in the gloves themselves. And then trying to figure out where they were purchased, how. How long ago were they purchased, try to get video from where these items were purchased. It is a big deal to find these gloves and hope hopefully they are related to Ms. Guthrie's kidnapping or missing.

[Nancy Grace]

You just gave me a great thought. Thank you. You know how tight it is when you rip off latex or plastic gloves. That has to take away. That has to rip off some hair on a guy's hand, some DNA. It's not just you putting them on, which is probably enough to get touch DNA, because when you look at the gloves he's wearing, they look tight. I wonder if he was wearing gloves under the gloves, which would not be helpful at all. But still, the ripping them off aspect from the wrist could very well, Scott Eichor, rip off hair or definitely touch DNA.

[Scott Eicher]

I totally agree with that. That's. And have you ever tried to put two sets of gloves on in the same hand? I've done that before, but it's very hard because they are sticky. So I doubt he's wearing two sets of gloves, but it sure does look like the gloves that were found that are black in color match the video that we see of him coming up to that door. This could Be the break in the case. I'm so excited, and I'm hoping they could get some information off of this.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, you said something else gone, Iker. And I'm going to follow up with you about what else could be obtained, such as fingerprints. But Dr. Sherry Schwartz is joining us, and I want to ask you a question about perseverance. Dr. Sherry Schwarz is a forensic psychologist at pantherlitigation.com she is the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology Intersect. Perfect. Night before last, Dr. Sherry we were all so buoyed, so happy that while Nancy was still. Is still missing, we had something. There had been a detainee pulled over and was being questioned. The hostage team was a few blocks away, waiting to go in and try to save Nancy. We all checked the news throughout the night and woke up in the morning to find out it was a catch and release. He was not involved. And we were back to square one. I felt so defeated. I felt like somebody kicked me in the stomach. And then I was overwhelmed with guilt. How dare I feel defeated? When Savannah and her family woke up to the same news, it's like day after day, they're living in a nightmare. They're away from their homes. Savannah lives with her family, her children and husband in New York. She's out there. She's away from home. Her mother is missing. She could have been killed. It's a race against the clock. Evildoers, trolls are coming out of the woodwork trying to get money and torture them. It's. It's a nightmare for her. So how dare we feel like we got a gut punch? How. What can you tell us to help us keep going, Sherry? Because you know Dr. Sherry Schwartz, you never know. The FBI certainly does not need us. But what if one thing that you say or Fitzgibbon says, or Iker or Mac or Eric Faddis, one thing leads to, one thing leads to, one thing leads to a solution. Give us some encouragement, for Pete's sake.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

Well, the best encouragement that I have is that in a case like this, of course we want resolution. We want to know where Nancy Guthrie is and bring her home safely. But the good news is, and we can look on the positive side, that if this isn't the person and this person has no idea and isn't a suspect anymore, then they keep looking. And that means there's still opportunity, right? Because if it is the person and whatever the outcome is, if it doesn't bring Ms. Guthrie home safely, then it's over. And we're all grieving but in this particular case, it just means that the investigation continues and everybody needs to stay vigilant because like you said, Nancy, you just never know. You never know who might hear something, who might see something. Putting this video out there of this suspect or this intruder is excellent because somebody might see this video and recognize this person from the way they walk, the way their body looks. So it's really about staying vigilant, staying engaged, and helping to bring Nancy Guthrie home.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me, high profile defense attorney Eric Faddis, the founder of the law offices of Eric Faddis, former felony prosecutor. You can find [e-mail] Eric, thank you for being with us. How do you do it? When you're in the middle of a trial and you get a big blow, the judge rules against you. You think the jury's going to rule against you. You're client is horrible. How do you keep going? Because I'm very curious because yesterday morning when I got up 5:30, looked at the news again and saw it was real, the guy was not involved. Back to square one. I had to drag myself. If I didn't have to get breakfast ready for the twins and my mom, I think I would have just, I guess go back to bed. I don't know. I had to drag myself out. That was a blow. And then I immediately felt horrible that I felt defeated. When Savannah is out there, just bone tired, exhausted, trying to put one foot in front of the other. How do you do it when you get a setback? And I know you do.

[Eric Faddis]

I mean, what a roller coaster of emotions for this family, certainly for Nancy Guthrie, you know, when that happens, you've got to try to remain resilient. I think having a good support system around you is helpful. Having sort of faith in the integrity of the system and the objective of the system to seek justice. You know, it appears that law enforcement is continuing to follow up on leads, being diligent and thorough, although there have been some missteps. And you have to hope that there are genuine efforts and people who truly, truly care about the outcome of this case and about seeking justice and sort of draw upon that energy, draw upon what they're bringing to the table, and sort of collaboratively try to reach the best outcome available under the circumstances.

[Nancy Grace]

I want to go back over Dave Mack. Well, Eric Faddis, you're right, by the way. Dave Mack. I want to go back to the discovery of the gloves again. It was no coincidence that we see law enforcement side by side all up and down the highways looking by the road. Not just the roads in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood, but all around Estrada. They were in Campbell. They were in Strato, Tucson. They were in various areas. And I knew they were all looking by roadsides. I knew that meant something, but I didn't know what it meant. And then, of course, there is no coincidence in criminal law. Dave Mack gloves are found on a roadside, and that leads me to think possibly someone had called in a tip of having seen something thrown out of a vehicle. Where all were they searching? And, Dave, weren't they searching behind sister Annie Guthrie's home? And again at Nancy Guthrie's home?

[Dave Mack]

I think, you know, Nancy, it's important to point out that when we think about a search with law enforcement, you know, we tend to think of, you know, maybe 15 or 20. We're talking hundreds here. This was a massive undertaking of law enforcement, FBI, local deputies. We're talking real searching in these areas. Just off the side of the road now, just a mile, mile and a half away from Nancy Guthrie's house. You know, Nancy, just off the road in this area, it's rugged terrain. We're talking arroyos that go four or five feet deep, A lot of brush and rocks and cacti. I mean, there's a lot going on even that close to the road. So to have this many law enforcement personnel out seeking, they had to have information that put them on this road, because look at the results. But going back to Annie Guthrie, you know, this was something that is not getting talked about a lot. But law enforcement went to her neighborhood, Nancy, to Annie Guthrie's neighborhood, and went door to door there. They looked in the brush. They looked in. In little bag houses. You know, we store lawnmowers and things like that. They searched for something or someone all throughout that neighborhood, door to door. Now, they did the same thing at Nancy Guthrie's, too. They didn't just fan out into the brush, her house, and went out from there. They were looking. Like I said, they found the. The first glove they found was a mile and a half from the home, not very far. And we're talking directly across from where Nancy's house is facing. Look at her front door and go straight out that way into the brush. That's where this was found. The other glove was found nearby, not far away, as you mentioned. Like, if you're taking one off and throwing it, taking the other off and throwing it, that's about the area where these gloves were found. So again, going back to this, we're not talking a couple dozen law Enforcement officials spending the day walking. We're talking hundreds in a very structured search of a very specific area and finding what they're looking for. A mile and a half from the scene of the crime. I think they had more than just a tip. I think we just don't know what they have yet.

[Nancy Grace]

Carlo Palazzo, the individual that bore a general resemblance to the guy on the front porch is actually a delivery person who delivers not just to Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood, but likely to Nancy Guthrie's home. He was detained and questioned. This is him speaking. He has nothing to do with Guthrie's disappearance. And this statement dashed our hopes that Nancy was this close to being found.

[Carlo Palazzo]

They helped me against my will. They didn't renew my rights until two hours later. Okay, you know me. My wrist is all swollen from.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

From the.

[Nancy Grace]

Did you have any idea this was about. Do you know who Nancy Guthrie is?

[Dave Mack]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

When they finally told you this was had to do with some kidnapping, like what. What were you thinking?

[Carlo Palazzo]

What the am I doing here? I didn't do anything, to be honest. Like, I'm innocent.

[Nancy Grace]

And you don't even know who the lady is.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

Do you know who Savannah Gun is?

[Carlo Palazzo]

No, I don't follow the.

[Nancy Grace]

You don't watch the today show?

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

The front porch video emerged. What can we learn from this video?

[Scott Eicher]

How did this person get in?

[Nancy Grace]

How did they exit? I'm wondering if there had to be two people.

[Scott Eicher]

Well, I think this is going to be the tip of the iceberg. We're going to see more. We're going to have a better idea as to what happened.

[Nancy Grace]

We'll be back to the glove in a moment regarding the possibility of getting DNA from the gloves and. And. Or fingerprints. But I want you to look at a conundrum that we observed after a careful inspection of the photos of the guy on the porch, as we call him. In one clip, in one frame grab, he is wearing a backpack. In another, he's not. Let's see those. Now, this tells me a lot. This tells me that very likely some. Where there was a car. We don't see the backpack laying around. Where is it? And where did he come from? Okay, Dave Mack, crime stories, investigative reporter. Weigh in, Nancy.

[Dave Mack]

That's been the big question. One thing I've noticed, as you see this guy walking up towards the. The walkway, right? He's kind of got this odd gate kind of loping as he comes into frame. And then once he knows he's in camera frame distance, he stops, ducks his head and starts with a different kind of a Shuffle. And I think, see, we see him coming from somewhere and you see him loping. And that's why I said this guy's been here before. He knows what's going on and knows where the camera is, how they're angled because he comes at an angle and immediately drops his head. So was his vehicle parked down the street? Was it parked, you know, a street over? You know, it's interesting that we've had some sightings of vehicles in the neighborhood. Maybe there was a rehearsal, parking in a certain area and walking. I mean, we just don't know because we're not getting that info from law enforcement at this point. But he had to come from somewhere. He wasn't walking around at 1:45 in the morning just out for a stroll to, you know, get to this location. He had to be nearby. And then, Nancy, they still have to get. They, I think they're talking two people too. We only have one on video, but I don't see how you're going to get an 84 year old, fairly immobile woman out on your own. This guy doesn't look like he could handle her by himself and maintain control. You've hurricane is left in the house. You have to her out of the home by either walking with her or carrying her. And that's going to take two people. So where is the vehicle? Was the other person waiting in the vehicle until this guy was able to disable the cameras? We don't know, but he had to be somewhere.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Scott Eicher]

She's exactly right. I did notice that in the photos comparison, when you showed him up, I'm like, where's the gun and where's the backpack? So where is this? Later on after he's, oh, wait, put him up.

[Nancy Grace]

Put him up. Iker.

[Scott Eicher]

Yes, ma'.

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

Am.

[Nancy Grace]

You noticed it, but you just wanted to keep a special secret, not say anything about it.

[Scott Eicher]

Okay, whatever you noticed, it's all secrets.

[Nancy Grace]

I believe it. So what do you make of it? The backpack's not there and the gun's not there.

[Scott Eicher]

Right. So is this a later time frame? And then that did. He's already been in the house. Now he's moving things around, maybe walking her to a car or something like that, and doesn't need the gun in the back.

[Nancy Grace]

He's not walking her anywhere. He's on his his way, walking back in. Look at the picture. Where's the gun? Where's the backpack? What? Let's analyze.

[Dave Mack]

Where did he put it?

[Nancy Grace]

What else could he do?

[Dr. Sherry Schwartz]

Yeah, where did he put it?

[Scott Eicher]

He put it somewhere, right? Did he leave it in the house while he's moving things around, or did he take it to the car and now he's leave up the picture.

[Nancy Grace]

Hey, Iker, look at the photo on the left and look at the photo on the right. When I was first looking at them at the photo on the right, I thought, wait, is that the backpack over there to the right under that palmetto plant? It's not that. Is the pot a pot for a plant? Because if you look at the picture on the left, you see two of them. The picture on the left really shows me the background a lot better. If there was a vehicle, I'm sure he parked it away from the home. But wait a minute. That really doesn't make sense. If he's leading her to the vehicle, he would park as close as possible, right?

[Scott Eicher]

Agreed. Agreed. Unless he brings the car around. If there's more than one person. We've got a lot of different scenarios going on here.

[Nancy Grace]

Another thing. Photo on the left. Keep the photo on the left. When he drove away. If he went in that direction, that cam may have caught it. Of course. Then he took the cam down. Which leads me to another question. Eicher. If he removed the cam, would it have kept recording? Is that possible?

[Scott Eicher]

It's possible if it has its own power source. I have NEST cameras, and they don't have their own power source. They don't have a battery in them. They have to be plugged in. And as we saw from them removing that camera on the roof, there was a solar panel that gave it the power it needed. Other cameras are hardwired, all mine are hardwired. So they have to have enough power sources, usually just the camera and not any batteries in it. So once you take it away, I think it's not going to record anything anymore.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, if it has batteries and you take it away, would it keep recording?

[Scott Eicher]

Yes, it would for a small amount of time because it's going to lose its WI FI connection once it gets away from the house.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, here's another question to you regarding the camera. Scott Eicher. Guys, just so you know, Iker is with Precision Cellular Analysis handling criminal defense, civil cases and [e-mail] and remember, founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey team, they are the ones responsible for getting this video. And let me just put it out there right now, Eric Faddis joining me, veteran trial lawyer. Eric, at the beginning, the sheriff, who, by the way, buried the lead here, stated late last night that more detainments are likely to occur quickly. He said that Nanos. He also, however, said that at the beginning, oh, shucks, she doesn't have. She doesn't have a subscription. No video. We sent it off to blah, blah, blah, and they couldn't pull anything up. Well, blah blah, blah did a crap job because the cellular analysis survey team with the FBI got it after they mined the vast, vast millions and millions of data points from Google. That's a Nest cam. Look at the top right, Fatis of the photos. They all say Nest. Nancy Guthrie had the Nest equipment in her home. Google owns Nest. It's all Google. So they either got a court order or a subpoena or a subpoena ducas tecum or plain old search warrant is my guess. Or Google may have given permission. That said, they wade through millions of data points and out of all that, a sea, a sea of information, they find Nancy Guthrie's porch cam and manage to get this. My point is, at the beginning, Faddis, Nano says, darny, darn, darn, no video. What about it? Can I trust what he's saying now that more detainments are about to happen?

[Dave Mack]

Sir?

[Eric Faddis]

Nancy, I thought it was peculiar that the video took so long to be obtained and get public. Usually in these investigations, they have it within the same day. You can go to Google, like you said, with a search warrant, production of records request, and they have to respond to that. In addition, there were some Scene containment issues, and the sheriff has been criticized for that. And so there have been some missteps, as I mentioned in this investigation. And I'm not sure the public has full faith in law enforcement conducting the investigation and reaching an ultimate outcome and finding a suspect here.

[Nancy Grace]

We also heard from Kash Patel stating as late as last night, there are persons of interest. So, Eicher, I took us down the garden path there. But regarding the camera, Scott, my door cam, it's a ring, gives me audio. I can hear what the person is saying. I can hear everything. I can hear the dog barking. I can hear everything. Is there audio that we have yet to hear?

[Scott Eicher]

It's a good possibility. I have several cameras at my house, but only two of them provide sound. So it really depends on which camera that was at that point front door on. If it had sound ability, I'm not sure we would have heard very much of him walking up to that house. But you never know what was possibility there. And I did confirm that cast was the ones that kind of worked with Google and obtained this, this video. And it did take a while because Google had to do a lot of searching and had to have the right parameters to get this stuff. So cast was definitely integral part in that aspect. As in the stopping of the gentleman a couple days ago or last night that was later released. There's 100% possibility that that's cast looking at the tower dump information and seeing that individual's phone come into the area, stay for a little bit and leave. And that's exactly what they're looking for in those tower dumps is phones that are not stationary, like neighbors phones or Nancy's phones. They're looking for phones that came in and left around that, that they believed she disappeared. So there's going to be a lot more of those little detainments. Just trying to figure out who was allowed to be there or had a reason to be there and then hopefully narrow down to our suspect.

[Carlo Palazzo]

I pulled up with them. They were following me. Yeah, they were following me. Miranda, this is Santa Cruz county and Miranda was down here. It's like, come on, two and two.

[Nancy Grace]

And so then when they, when they came up on you, what did they say? Like, what did they say?

[Carlo Palazzo]

Nothing.

[Nancy Grace]

Nothing.

[Carlo Palazzo]

Literally nothing.

[Dave Mack]

Nothing.

[Carlo Palazzo]

They just told me, stop moving.

[Dave Mack]

Like, what's your name? Carlos.

[Nancy Grace]

That's it.

[Carlo Palazzo]

They put me in the car park. Gotta wait like two hours. I waited like two hours until the detectives get here and everything.

[Nancy Grace]

As Savannah herself stated, the hour of desperation. With every minute that passes, the hour becomes even more despairing. If you know or think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please call 1-800-225-5324 toll free, 800-225-5324. Or if you wish to remain anonymous, dial 520-882-7463. Repeat, 520-882-7463. We remember an American hero. Lieutenant Shirley Lanning, Canadian County Sheriff's, Oklahoma, killed in the line of duty after 30 years serving and protecting, leaving behind her grieving husband, American hero, Lieutenant Shirley Lanning, Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend.