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- [00:00]
A
This is an I heart podcast, Guaranteed.
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Human crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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A
It's been two weeks since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to come on and say that we still have hope and we still believe. And I wanted to say to whoever has her or knows where she is that it's never too late and you're not lost or alone, and it is never too late to do the right thing. And we are here and we believe and we believe in the essential goodness of every human being. And it's never too late.
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C
A man claiming to know who kidnapped Nancy Guthrie and her current location reaches out to TMZ for the fourth time, still demanding 50,000 in Bitcoin up front. Then he will provide the information. The email is using the same bitcoin account as previous emails and says in part, I know what I saw 5 days ago south of the border, and I was told to shut up, so I know who he is, and that was definitely Nancy with them. This is now the second time the rat has suggested there is more than one person involved in the kidnapping. Also, in his previous missive, he said, be prepared to go international. The man says he has a burglary on his record from 10 years ago, so he's scared to come forward, presumably fearing he'd be implicated. TMZ replies directly to the individual with an offer. If you are for real, send us the information regarding the whereabouts of Nancy and her kidnappers. We will immediately forward the information to the FBI. If it leads to finding Nancy and or the kidnappers, you then have a public record that you are the one responsible, thus ensuring you will get the reward. The FBI is aware we are making this overture. This is the second note received by TMZ after the rat said there would be no more communication.
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B
Nancy Guthrie missing, day 16. And that plea from our friend Savannah Guthrie, the most heartbreaking plea as of tonight. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Savannah Guthrie, beaten down, exhausted, obviously not eating, appeals to the essential goodness, she says, that is in every human being, begging them it's not too late to do the right thing. Stating, obviously stating she believes her mother, Nancy, is alive. Also at this hour, breaking developments over the last weekend, over the last day. Straight out to Dave Mack, crime Stories, investigative reporter, DNA, Tell me everything.
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D
All right, starting at the beginning, Nancy. DNA found at Nancy Guthrie's home has been determined to belong to someone not in close contact with Nancy Guthrie. This is explosive information as it's the first indicator we have that DNA belonging to someone not related, not in close contact with Nancy found at the home. Nancy, we also have the glove. The glove found about a mile and a half from Nancy's home. That too is being tested and that too has male DNA. The glove with the DNA looks like what the glove we saw in the surveillance video from the NEST camera on Nancy Guthrie's front door. That glove that we saw in that video is what appears to be the glove found in the desert a mile and a half from her home with DNA. So those are your two big DNA explosions right now in the investigation.
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B
That's right. The glove found near Nancy Guthrie's home, about 1.5 miles from her home does contain DNA evidence. All those so called experts claiming it would not contain DNA are wrong. Also, the glove found with DNA evidence on it appears to be what the suspect in the video was wearing. According to the FBI, the black glove found near Nancy Guthrie's home contains DNA evidence and it is being tested. We could be hours away from that DNA match. And again, the FBI says the glove appears to match the gloves worn by the suspect on Nancy Guthrie's porch. This guy we're showing you right now, the one with the DNA profile recovered is different from other gloves. What does that mean? That it is different from other gloves? Dave Mack what other gloves?
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D
Nancy There have been reportedly 16 other gloves, maybe even more that have been found in this investigation. But Nancy, the 16 gloves that have been found range in different colors, from red to brown to black. They range in the different types of gloves that are available.
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B
Straight out to veteran trial lawyer Josh Colesrew joining us now, criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor, founder, closer to law offices. He's joining us from that jurisdiction, Arizona. Josh in my mind I have a leaped forward to a potential trial. What a field day the defense will have with these 16 gloves that are unrelated to the perp on the front porch. Because just as the defense was going to do in the Bryan Kohberger case with the glove laying out in the parking lot, it's snowing, somebody dropped their glove out there that was going to be the sod, some other dude that did it, right? So I'm happy, I'm thrilled. We found a glove that seems to match the one. And you and I talked about it, how sweaty his hands must have gotten during all that and the scenario of him stripping it off and throwing it out the window as he leaves the scene. But the other gloves are a problem, Colesrud.
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E
They are a huge problem for the prosecution. You know, one of the most important things for a prosecutor is the ability to prove chain of custody, to be able to show that this is the item that we're saying that it is. And when you have, I can't believe this, 16 other gloves that were dropped there by volunteers or people working for law enforcement, like it's beyond imagination that they could do this and contaminate the crime scene.
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B
Straight out to Tammy Ballard joining us. Tammy is a DNA crime scene consultant, crime scene investigation and reconstruction expert. Important tonight, DNA criminalist for the San Diego Police Crime Lab, Tammy Ballard. This is a bombshell. If these are the gloves worn in the video, let's see the video again. And according to police sources, the pert was wearing gloves under the gloves. We don't know that that's true. Whatever the case, DNA has been found on these gloves, Tammy Ballard, and it is male DNA. What comes next?
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F
Next? Next is the CODIS search. So that's going to be the important search. And it sounds like that's going to happen in real time, something like today. And then they'll know if they have some sort of direction to go with that search, if there's a hit. If not, the next step would intuitively be can we start with the genealogy process and go down that path with a different DNA profile from the same glove. So hopefully it was a single source, enough profile and there's DNA remaining so that they might have to be able to share that DNA with that second process for genealogy. But it can be a multi pronged approach to identify the individual as fast as possible.
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B
Tammy Ballard, what is an STR analysis?
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F
That is what I would consider your standard DNA testing. Most forensic laboratories across the country, that is what we have all used stands for short tandem repeat testing. Very distinct, regulated, validated locations of DNA that are being tested for potential comparison to suspects or uploads into databases.
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B
Would this be a short tandem DNA test, a short tandem repeat?
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F
Yes, it is. This is a traditional STR profile. That is what all of the forensic laboratories are using to compare to a potential suspect.
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B
Okay, then we will take the STR results and put it into codis. Straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us. Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. His specialty, finding missing people. He leads a team of investigators around the world locating missing people. Who is in codis.
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G
Yeah. So you're going to have everybody in CODIS that law enforcement has had a sample from or, you know, the FBI has loaded into that system. So there's going to be a limited, I mean, it's a huge, vast Number of samples, but it is limited in the sense, and Tammy touched on this, that the next step is that forensic genetic genealogy analysis where you're taking in other sources like Ancestry.com, 23andMe, all those private genetic testing organizations where investigators will be able to hopefully try to map who this is.
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B
Yes, codis. The Combined DNA Index System anachronism. CODIS is FBI managed it's software and it operates on local, state and national DNA databases. IT IDs suspects and they do that by comparing convicted offenders, not necessarily just felons, misdemeanors, sometimes to all of them across the country. Missing people and DNA found on crime scenes. Kohberger, Brian Kohberger's DNA is now in codis. Now here's the problem with codis and CODIS is fantastic. It matches DNA profiles even from unsolved cases to individuals and other crime scenes. It also uses the 20 core short tandem repeat genetic markers. Here's the thing, the only people in codis, generally speaking, are convicts. So if the perp is not already convicted, then once you put the DNA into codis, you may not get an identical match, but you may get an EH match, which would mean the perp is related to the person in codis. It could be a brother, a cousin, a dad, a son, a nephew, a distant nephew, a distant cousin. You'll get a quasi match. And that is what happened in Joseph Diangelo, the Golden State Killer. Once we got a little bit of we had to go back and do genetic genealogy. But right now in CODIS we will get a match of sorts if there's a relative in codis. Tammy Ballard DNA expert isn't that true?
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F
Yes, it is going to be a different kind of search in the CODIS database, but first and foremost you're going to be comparing that traditional STR profile from this unknown male to convicted offenders who's in this database, but also other forensic unknown cases. So samples from other cases that may have identified a potential perpetrator could also be related to this case. So there is more information to glean from that then if you would want to do the familial testing right after that, that's going to be another round of testing and comparison. But again, this laboratory that is doing the work does have that in their wheelhouse. So all of that can happen pretty much now simultaneously. If they do want to do a genealogy search with additional type of testing as well. I do want to clarify one thing so we don't put the whole genealogy community in panic zone, but if they.
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B
Do the genealogy, is this about saying 23andMe, private testing labs. Go ahead.
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F
Ancestry.com and there's only a few places that you can actually allow law enforcement to search in the genealogy databases. That's Family Tree DNA and GEDmatch. So within those two databases, the genealogy search can happen for law enforcement. But Ancestry and the other genealogy companies are not allowing law enforcement to search at this time.
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B
And as a matter of fact, that was one of the problems in the Bryan Kohberger case. Certain private genealogical testing labs were used, reportedly, which would have opened up a whole can of worms. What this means is that, for instance, if you do 23andMe, you don't agree to have your DNA out there to be used in criminal testing or any other testing. So it's a privacy issue for everyone that uses the website that said first to CODIS and then to genetic genealogy. And again, that is how one of the worst killers was brought to justice. A former cop, Joseph d', Angelo, the Golden State Killer, through genetic genealogy. Crime stories with nancy grace. So we've got the glove. You've got a contaminated crime scene which is out in the open, by the way. 16 gloves that we know of were found. Many of those could have been tossed by anybody. Not a searcher, but maybe a searcher. This, as we understand a pool cleaning crew was allowed on the scene. It never ends with the scene being open. That said, there was another bust on Friday night. What happened? Dave Mack.
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D
Friday night, Nancy? Two separate locations, okay? Pima county sheriff's deputies and the FBI conducted this massive late night SWAT operation. Just before midnight, we've got SWAT descending on a home in Tucson and they get three people detained. Two guys and their mom, apparently. But while this is going on, the SWAT team at the house about two miles from Nancy Guthrie's home, the FBI has a Range Rover pulled over in a parking lot of a restaurant. That Range Rover person is also detained. So we've got four people detained at the same time by SWAT and the FBI and deputies. We've got the Range Rover, a gray Range Rover that is searched while officers actually held up like a white sheet blocking the view from cameras to see what they were looking for in the back of that suv, the Range Rover. And they actually swarmed in both these locations. They interviewed all three at the house. They interviewed the Range Rover guy. And then, Nancy, they towed the Range Rover away and let everybody go.
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B
Okay, you know, I don't like the way you said that. Dave Mack. I know. Guys, you're seeing video from our friends at FOX News, I feel and empathize with you're let him go. Okay. Because again, after the last catch and release, everybody's hopes were dashed. You think, finally we've caught the pert. We're going to find Nancy Guthrie. She's going to be alive and then the person's released. Okay, that was Palozuelos, Carlos Palozuelos. Now we've got neighbors about a mile ish away from Nancy Guthrie's home. There was a big bust. The SWAT team rolled out, the armored vehicles rolled out. We thought, okay, now, now, now it's going to be solved. We're going to find Nancy Guthrie alive. And they were released. Another catch and released. I hear your disappointment, but straight out to Scott Eichert joining us, digital forensics expert, founding member of the FBI Cast Cellular Analysis Survey Team, FBI, 22 years, former police officer, homicide with Norfolk, Virginia, PD and currently at Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, thank you for being with us tonight. This is how I think they're zoning in on A, Palozuelos and B, those detained over the weekend that have now been released through cell phone data. Explain.
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H
In these cases, we do a tower dump where we're getting probably thousands of phones that might have been in that area around the time Nancy Guthrie went missing. So we're now finally starting to get through all that data, trying to figure out which ones are normally there, like neighbors and which ones may have been passing through. And then once you get the phone number, then you have to figure out, all right, who's actually using this phone number? Is it a fake name on the subscriber? So then you have to figure out, all right, where may that phone be? And I suspect that these are these stops. The last couple you were just talking about are results of either lprs or phones being in the area. Now they're just trying to track it down, see who's actually using those phones and if they're related to the Nancy Guthrie case.
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B
This, as we learn, FBI, they must have been watching crime stories because as soon as the Front Porch video was released, our awesome staff in New York, Atlanta, Texas and beyond got together and realized that the backpack was an Ozark from Walmart. Within I would say an hour of seeing it, Angelica and others had identified it also. They identified our staff, identified the jacket we believe coming from Walmart, and even the ski mask. But now everybody, you're validated law enforcement revealing the clothes worn by the Front Porch perp were bought at Walmart. Were bought at Walmart. Okay. To Iker Again, I will never forget watching top mom Casey Anthony on see their Walmart or Target video buying beer and a push up bra while her daughter Kelly was missing. And it's happened in so many cases I can't even begin to count them. Where a perp is caught on video. Man, why do they always buy a tarp? It's always a tarp and cleaning supplies. That said, what's the next step now that we know these items are bought at Walmart?
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H
Once we get that type of information and we do this with the cell phones too, with you know, burner phones, we backtrack to where those items were purchased so that we can actually hopefully find video of those actual purchases. And as you know, the Walmarts and the targets, they have fantastic video and those are really clear. So that does normally help us to identify who actually had those items, purchased those items. Whereas using that cellular device don't you.
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B
Know the FBI is pouring through local Walmart video. You said something that pierced my heart, Scott Iker again, you mentioned that Walmart also sells burner phones. You can identify cell numbers in the area. I think that's how they got Carlos Palosuelos. I think that's why they honed in on the neighbor that has been released because their cell phone is active around the time Nancy Guthrie goes missing. And they've done a data dump and they're isolating phones used in the area in that neighborhood in those hours and then expanding burner phones are a particular problem for cast. Explain the problem with burner phones.
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H
Well, we all kind of normal citizens have postpaid phones. We use the phone and then we pay our bill. But most of the criminal element world uses burner phones or prepaid phones. And when you go into Walmart you can buy the phone and buy time minutes for that phone and you don't have to put a name on it because you've already paid the phone company what they want is their money. So you don't have to put a real name or a real address or anything on there. We've seen Bugs Bunny or Roger Rabbit or you know, anything you want to put in the subscriber information or nothing at all. So then we have to figure out who actually has that phone and who's using it.
- [24:29]
B
And that is where the incredible video at Walmart will come into play. So what he's saying in regular people talk is you can buy a burner phone under any name not your own, unlike your AT&T or your VZW or your T mobile bill where it's your name and your address and yeah, you can track that in about a split second. A burner phone. No, you have to find out where was the burner phone bought? Was it on a credit card so you can trace the perp? Was it on video? Walmart has great video. NASA could take a lesson from Walmart that said, it's a much more in depth process because you could even pay with cash. So you may never know if it weren't for the video, who bought the burner phone used outside Nancy Guthrie's home at the time she was kidnapped? Okay, another thing happened over the weekend, and this is amazing. Dave Mack, tell me about the drone search for Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker.
- [25:30]
D
Nancy, this is something that in reality is an incredible technology tool using a drone that is outfitted to actually locate the Bluetooth signal that is sent from the pacemaker back to to the Apple Watch. They've been able to fly these drones at low level where they can find these Bluetooth signals. And they've been flying them in a cross grid pattern at low levels all over the Guthrie neighborhood as well as areas of the desert. You know, they began four days out using helicopters, flying very low and doing a grid search. And they were also using technology then to try to locate the pacemaker. But the drones take it to a whole new level with different technology that really does zero in specifically on this pacemaker. Bluetooth.
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B
Crime stories with nancy grace. You know what's interesting here? And let me throw this back to FitzGibbons. Brian FitzGibbons, USPA Nationwide Security A viewer wrote me and said at the very beginning, why can't they strap a device to a dog, a device that would pick up the frequency of the pacemaker and walk it through the neighborhood, walk it all around the neighborhood and get other dogs with the same apparatus and go out and out and out and out. Since we are pretty convinced someone that knew Nancy Guthrie is responsible for her kidnap. And at first I'm like, outfitted dog. It wasn't that bad of an idea. And I started thinking about it and I began researching how can you track a pacemaker, all because of what that viewer wrote me. You cannot track a pacemaker in that once it's away from its Bluetooth, it's no longer sending information to the doctor's office or the clinic or the hospital that ends it doesn't have GPS in it. But the viewer wasn't half wrong. He she was all right, because they can't be traced through that Bluetooth frequency. It May not be connecting to the clinic or the doctor, but it's still emitting. It's brilliant. Fitzgibbons, explain to me how they're doing this. How low do the drones have to fly?
- [28:06]
G
Yeah. So the viewer's logic was spot on. Right. And this technology has been around for a good amount of time and had a fair degree of success, particularly in search and rescue operations. All right, so these could be used after a natural disaster or, you know, a hiker lost in the mountains. You know the distance is going to vary, right? Anywhere from 30 to hundreds of feet in the air. It's all going to depend on the power of that signal being emitted. So I don't think there's an exact science on the pacemaker and how far the drone would need to be, but what I can tell you is they'll be able to zero in on the signal that that pacemaker creates to filter out all the noise. Because unlike a massive grid search in a remote area that these search and rescue applications are used to, this is flying over populated areas where there's going to be a lot of signal noise that they have to filter out.
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B
And, Brian, here's the good news about pacemakers. My dad had a pacemaker. My mom has a pacemaker. Everyone's asking, what if the battery runs out? Batteries in pacemakers usually last five to 15 years, with seven to 12 years being the normal time the battery will last. Why? Because to change a battery in a pacemaker, you actually have to operate. It's probably a simple operation, but you still have to go in. The person has the pacemaker in their chest, and you have to change the batteries. So you don't want to do that very often with a heart patient. So the norm is 7 to 12 years, 5 at the earliest, 15 at the longest. So I'm not worried about the battery going out. Now, very quickly, I want to follow up. Just joining us now, special guest, Dr. Bethany Marshall. She is a renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. She's the author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock, and you can find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com. Dr. Bethany When I showed that video of Savannah Guthrie, it broke my heart when I saw it for the first time. I felt nauseous thinking about Savannah. She is so exhausted. And she's not giving up.
- [30:42]
I
No, she is not. Nancy. And she goes out and she makes these statements without the studio lighting, the studio makeup, any of the trappings of her profession, which she could use to try to appeal to whoever took her mother but she is coming out just as herself. And in the very first video, Nancy, she keeps using the word you. She's trying to form a relationship with whoever the perpetrator is. And in this one, when she says that she believes that there's goodness in everyone, she's trying to create empathy, that empathy on the part of the perpetrator towards her, towards her family. She's not coming out harsh or angry or we're going to come after you or we're going to find you. Nothing punitive. Nancy, she is soft, she is engaged. And Nancy, I kind of feel like she might know who she's speaking to. She's looking into somebody's eyes and heart, metaphorically, and saying, I know you, you know me, we are both human beings. Please, please bring my mother back. And she's sort of implying no consequences as well, which of course there will be consequences. But she's also trying to remove fear on the part of the perpetrator.
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B
Well, I can tell you this, Cole's rude. I'm going to to Bethany in one moment. The consequences will be a hell of a lot worse if Nancy Guthrie dies.
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E
Absolutely. You know, in Arizona, we certainly have a reputation for using the death penalty. And this certainly would be a case that would qualify if she is later found to have passed away. Now, what's interesting about this case is that there may be a parallel prosecution. And we've seen this before in Arizona in another high profile case, Senator Mark Kelly, you know, his wife, Gabby Giffords, was shot and almost killed along with federal judge John Roll. In those two cases, you both had the federal prosecutors prosecuting at the same time as a state. And what I found really interesting, Nancy, is that on Friday, the feds executed a federal search warrant, not a state search warrant. And this could be an indication of the friction that is happening between the feds and the state. Because I'll tell you, when I was both a state prosecutor and a federal prosecutor, when I was on the state side, I often worked with the FBI and I would draft and issue the subpoenas. What I would never expect for the same FBI agents to go to the U.S. attorney's office to do their own parallel investigation, cutting me out of it. So, you know, this is a really interesting development.
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B
Should the sniffer technique have been used earlier.
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E
You know, I have two gripes about this, Nancy. The first is, you know, in any missing person's case, the most important time to gather and collect evidence is at the very beginning. And by all reports, this so called sniffer technology wasn't used for at least two weeks after Nancy Guthrie was discovered missing. Also, what I don't like about this move is to tell the public what it's doing with that type of technology because you're signaling to the bad guys that we're looking for your Bluetooth devices. And, you know, bad guys have been known to try to destroy evidence so they don't get caught. And I would be concerned that this could put Nancy Guthrie in mortal peril should the bad guys be listening to the reports on tv?
- [34:30]
B
You know, I want to go back to Scott Eicher, founding member of cast. Scott, can I see Scott, please? Is it true that you suggested to cast the use of the drones to try to find that fb, that Bluetooth frequency being admitted from Nancy's pacemaker?
- [34:52]
H
I actually did send a message to CAST on Saturday. So two days ago I said, hey, has anybody thought about using the Bluetooth sniffer to go out and see if they can capture the signal by Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker? They said, well, I don't know, but we'll check and see if the command post is doing that. And then the next day it came out on the media that they were doing that. So I don't know if I provided them to do that. I have a feeling they were doing that ahead of time. It just hit me later on in the investigation. Now this device I've used before, it's very short range. I was surprised they were trying to do it from a helicopter at one point in time. Definitely vehicles or low flying drones. Because the distance for Bluetooth, as you might know, when you walk away from your phone with your earbuds in, it's like 30, 40ft at the most. So they're going to have to get really close to this, you know, any Bluetooth device to be able to grab its signal. So they're going to have a lot of work. But I think it's a great tactic to be using.
- [35:59]
B
Well, you know, you're right, Eichert, because recall we heard at the beginning once Nancy was 20ft away from, I think it was 20ft away from the Bluetooth connection. The pacemaker information ended. To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us. Dr. Bethany, you mentioned how Savannah was creating a connection with the perp, evoking empathy. Who would take an 84 year old grandma and use her this way? We know it's a man. We know it is a Hispanic male or a swarthy olive complected male. We know that there's facial hair. We know his height, 5 between 59 and 5 11. We know his medium build, but who is this guy?
- [36:58]
I
BETHANY well Nancy, he's only the face of the crime. As Brian Fitzgibbon said on on one of the shows, he's just a foot shot soldier. He's an amateur. NANCY Multiple gloves, potentially looks like he has multiple jackets on, potentially a tarp in his backpack. He does not know that the camera is there. This is not a very high functioning guy. Porch perp is not. So putting together the behavioral clues that that you and the panel have been discussing, I wouldn't be surprised if he went himself to Walmart. He'd have to make the purchase himself because he knows his his size, jacket, shoe, glove size, all of that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that everything is all on one receipt, even perhaps the burner phone. So that narrows the search a little bit in terms of a non custodial kidnapping. NANCY Normally that is to control the victim, whether it's a child or a young adult. In this case we have a geriatric person, an older person, but for what reason would they control the victim? Something that has come to mind, Nancy by the way, with the gloves, I'm not surprised about the 16 gloves because we have web sleuths all over the place out there also searching, interfering and helping, I don't know which way. And also this guy's wearing multiple gloves potentially. So I wouldn't be surprised, I'm not surprised to learn that they're picking up multiple gloves out there. But think about your mother, Nancy, and how proud she has been over the years of you having your own TV show. I'm sure she goes to or I know she's housebound now, but to her doctors, her physical therapists, her nutritionist, and talking about you and how how proud she is of you. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's somebody in Nancy Guthrie's medical community where she frequently visited and she would talk about Savannah and all of her kids and how proud she is of them and how how wonderful they are and have you seen my daughter on tv? And if that didn't incite somebody who's down on their luck or wanted to control her as a victim in some way to say, oh gosh, this is my way out of my current financial predicament, but then whoever took her is not sophisticated enough to find a good way to get the money. And I think that's the paradox that's confusing everybody. You take this geriatric person for some purpose. But now what's the purpose so they can't implement the purpose. So where does that put us in terms of this search? It's somebody who needed her for the purpose but then couldn't implement the purpose but itself.
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B
Right. Tammy Ballard joining us, DNA expert. Tell me about, Tammy phenotyping and how that could help.
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F
Well, there's biogeographical analysis to give you sort of a visual aspect from where some of these people could come from and originate from what their nationality is. That is testing that is also done pretty much simultaneously when they test for the genealogy to give somebody a little bit more of an idea of what this person may look like.
- [40:18]
B
Yes, phenotyping, the process of measuring, analyzing physical, biochemical traits of the perpetual. It identifies traits in biology, medicine, agriculture. Deep phenotyping or digital phenotyping is a DNA based prediction of physical attributes, color of hair, do they have freckles, the pigment of the skin. And so much more phenotyping could be used. In this case. It's an additional tool used by law enforcement and I've seen it work. Joining us tonight is a PR guru, Rob Shooter, author of a brand new book that's climbing the charts on Amazon. It started with a whisper and he's the star of Naughty But Nice. You can also find him on his substack sheeter. Thank you for being with us. The facts are coming fast and furious, but I want to take a moment and talk about my friend, your friend Savannah and this last plea. I ought to tell you all of her pleas have just like been a gut punch. But this last one, I mean, she's so tired. She's just trying to get her mom back. What can you tell us about your recollections of Savannah? I keep saying she's just as nice and wonderful in real life as she is on the Today show. But yet online everybody's hating on her. And I don't really understand that.
- [42:16]
J
Yeah, I tuned that out, Nancy. It's too painful for me. I've been on the Today show maybe 30, 40 times. I've known Savannah since she was a correspondent on the show. When she started that show, she did not start as the co host. She started as their White House correspondent. And so I've known her for a really long time. The last time I was on the show, Savannah interviewed me. She's the real deal. During commercial breaks, she laughs. She asks you questions about your life. She remembers details about your private life. I was at a wedding about six months ago and Savannah was at the wedding. And we had a really Great catch up there. She's the real deal. And we've worked in tv, Nancy, a long time. It's not just tv. I think a lot of businesses are like this. People in the office, on television, at their job, always normally, hopefully put on the best version of themselves. And when they leave that job, it can be a little bit, a little bit frosty, a little bit prickly. Not Savannah. She was the real deal. And in New York, I've seen her out in restaurants, I've seen her out at the theater. She's kind. She's kind to people and she's very much aware that she has the dream job. She always wanted to be a reporter. She always tried. Her mom encouraged her to do this. Against all odds, this young reporter ended up hosting the Today show, the biggest morning show in the world, certainly in America. And she never forgot who she was. It would have been very easy for Savannah when she became the co host, to become a diva. She could have become a star. We know them. We know people on TV who act like that. Not Savannah. She was always nice to the crew. She was always nice to the guests. She was always nice to the producers. And that's why this has really been a good to everybody at NBC. Within that building, there are a lot of stinkers. Savannah is not one of them. She's one of the good people.
- [44:12]
B
You know, it's really interesting soaking in every word you said, Rob Shuter, because I don't get the hate focused on her at obviously the worst time in her life. She lost her father when she was 16. I remember my dad had a first coronary thrombosis when I was 16 and we had my birthday in the hospital and I got my cross. And I remember being afraid I would lose my dad. She did lose her dad, and now she's about to lose her mom. So I don't get the hate. I guess you tell your clients to just ignore everything online.
- [44:58]
J
Yeah, you do. Savannah's got a tough skin for somebody as kind, for somebody as gentle as she is. She works in a really tough business. And being on television every single day in front of millions of people, you open yourself up to a lot of criticism about what you say, the way you look. And so she has done this for a long time, so I'm told at the moment. I spoke to some friends of hers, people that work with her. She's just focused on family. She's focused on getting her mom back. All that stuff online that's been there for years, all the hate, all the criticism I think she's tuning it out because, let's be honest, she's got a much bigger worry.
- [45:39]
B
I'm sure she doesn't care, which is her mom. So, Rob Sheeter, this is what I always say, and I don't know if you, the PR guru to the stars, would agree, but have you ever called your cable company and said, wow, you know what? I watch crime Stories Tonight on YouTube and it was awesome, and I just want to thank you for all you did to. To make that possible. No. You call the cable company and go, my cable's out. Fix it. You're horrible. I hate you.
- [46:06]
G
Right?
- [46:07]
B
Nobody writes in or calls in good things. It's only when you have a complaint. So those are the people trashing Savannah at a time like this. Who are those people, Rob?
- [46:19]
J
They're terrible people, Nancy. They're terrible, angry people. And this is not about Savannah. It's about them. You know, I've ran many different websites, and the comments, 80% of them are really hateful. People don't comment when they want to say something nice. So let's change that. I try now when I go to a restaurant to leave a good review on Yelp instead of just the bad ones. And so we. We can change the world if we. If we start thinking somehow.
- [46:44]
B
I knew you were going to make this about you, Rob Shooter. It all goes back to what our grandma said. If you can't say anything nice, just don't say anything at all. I think we all agree on that. Rob Shuter. I'm not concerned about what's going to happen after we find Nancy Guthrie. I'm concerned about finding Nancy Guthrie. But there's all the speculation brewing about Savannah leaving the Today Show. That's not my concern right now. We'll burn that bridge when we get there. But what's that all about?
- [47:12]
J
Yeah, the Today show is a multimillion dollar business. It is presented as a family. And I believe that's mainly true about them. They care about each other over there. But it is a job, and this is a company now that is trying to figure out what are they going to do. It would be irresponsible of the executives to not have a plan B, to have a safety net. So there is no date for Savannah to return. My sources are telling me she might never return to the Today show, and she's certainly not going to return until there's some solution, until there's some answers about her mom. So Savannah's going to be gone from that show probably for the next six months, maybe longer. And so they are looking at different options. I'm told they're handling it quite carefully. They don't want to be about contracts or money or opportunities for thirsty people on staff trying to get her job. But there is a reality to this. When somebody is away from a show, a lot of people around.
- [48:12]
B
Well, I'm glad that you have looked into the Rob Shooter crystal ball and you can see that this case will be over in six months and put away like the tea service when you're done with your tea. So thank you for that. Rob Shooter. I'm not concerned about what's going to happen on a morning TV show. I'm concerned about finding Nancy Guthrie. And I hope you're wrong. I hope that Nancy is found and Savannah returns to life as normal. That's my prayer. Rob Shooter, guru to the stars and author of a brand new book. It started with a whisper. Thank you for being with us tonight.
- [48:46]
J
Good to be with you, Nancy. And let me just add here we talk about people on television being generous and being kind and being authentic. You're the real deal.
- [48:54]
B
To Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter, you've learned something that I consider to be very probative regarding that polyester holster. Let's see the holster the perp had on in a very bizarre manor. Tell me what you've learned about the holster.
- [49:15]
D
Well, you know, it's interesting to note, Nancy, that most of what our perp was wearing from the backpack on all available exclusively at Walmart stores. But this very unique cheap holster, also available at Walmart, but in Tucson, where they have more than a dozen Walmart stores, only two of the Tucson area, Walmart had that holster in stock. Only two out of more than a dozen.
- [49:47]
B
If you know or think you know anything about this case, whether you consider it to be large, small, inconsequential or not, Please dial toll free 800-225-5324. Or if you wish to remain anonymous, 520-882-7463. There is a $100,000 reward. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for keeping the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good.