Dave Mack (3:04)

Well, you know what, Nancy? Earlier this week, we knew that law enforcement investigators had been back at the house, and we knew they were looking for something. Well, apparently they were all over the house looking for biological material, and that's what they found. Investigators found biological material that does not belong to Nancy Guthrie. They found it inside the home. And again, you pointed it out weeks after the home had already been searched, after evidence had been collected and after the home was briefly turned back to the family before the investigators shut it back down. But still, two weeks, this crime began. Law enforcement finding biological material inside the home that does not belong to Nancy Guthrie.

Nancy Grace (3:57)

Guys, we're showing you Nancy's home right now. This is from our friends at 12News. There's so many directions to go with this bombshell. It's maybe a bombshell to only crime watchers, crime aficionados, people like us, prosecutors, former FBI lawyers, shrinks, DNA experts. You got a big, big problem with the fact that this DNA is discovered two weeks later. Let's go ahead. Let's tackle it head on. Joining me, Kelly Hyman, veteran trial attorney, analyst, podcast star of Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood. Kelly, go ahead. I've got. I'm ready for you. See, I know what you're going to say, and I'm ready for you. Go ahead, attack the DNA. I'm ready.

Kelly Hyman (4:49)

DNA is key to this case. Why is DNA so important? Because the DNA can prove who was there. The DNA can help substantiate who was in the house at this time. The police went in and then two weeks later find this DNA. All of a sudden, after two weeks, it's found. Now, I could see a lot of couch investigators saying that there's something wrong with that. Why didn't they find this DNA the first time? Why is it all of a sudden being found, Nancy?

Nancy Grace (5:26)

Okay, there you go. That's just a tiny, tiny tidbit. Kelly Heim is actually being generous and delicate with this attack because let me assure you that when and if this goes to trial, there will be a frontal attack on this DNA. Here's my response. So they find the perp, okay? This DNA has already been found, okay. Even though it's late to the party, when they find the perp, that's going to be much later. So what, their mind readers, they now know who the perp is. They go get his DNA and they plant it. Yeah. Straight out to Scott Eicher joining me. Uh, oh. Now I'm giving her time to come up with her next attack, and believe me, she will. Scott Eicher joined me. Digital forensics expert, founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. They're the ones behind the scenes that are getting all the phone numbers and phone data and much, much more from the area that I contend is why they pulled over the first guy, that first catch and release. Remember him? He was released and I think he was picked up because his phone kept pinging in the area. He had nothing to do with it, by the way. I hate to even keep mentioning his name. He had nothing to do with this, but that's what cast is doing and much, much more. Also former homicide detective with Norfolk, Virginia, 12 years. Now he is with Precision Cellular Analysis@pcaexperts.com as much as I am pooh, poohing her, Kelly Hyman is right. This is going to be subjected to a huge attack. I imagine what happened, Scott, is that the local Pima county went in and processed the scene. The FBI was finally allowed in, and they reprocessed it and found the DNA. What do you think?

Scott Eicher (7:35)

I think you're correct there. Also, the scenarios change. You know, first of all, it was a missing person, and then later on we'd get ransom, and now we're looking at as a kidnapping. So you come in with fresh eyes or different eyes to look at different things. Now, I definitely think that a full process should have been done immediately once they realized this was possibly a kidnapping. But fresh eyes and the FBI with its specialized equipment and knowledge, that's always good to go back and look again. As long as they've kept the crime scene, you know, which it appears that they have not, we could still go in and look for DNA and hopefully any other evidence and recover it.

Nancy Grace (8:20)

Okay, well, Scott Eichert, let's let me have you address this because you've been with a local police department in Norfolk, Virginia. You were a homicide detective there, and you were a fed for many, many years. Let's give Pima a tiny break here. This type of ransom, kidnapped for ransom, is rare. I can count them on two hands that we know of. Right. I've done a lot of kidnaps. I've investigated and prosecuted kidnaps, but not of this nature. Right. More like carjack. Put the victim in the car and take off. That's kidnap. More like take the victim to a secluded location and rape her. That's a kidnap. There are many, many genre of kidnaps Right. Kidnap for ransom is a very rare bird indeed. So not just Pima, but generally all across the country expertise in kidnap cases. It's few and far between. Would you agree with that?

Scott Eicher (9:21)

I definitely agree. And local police departments normally wouldn't deal with this in the first place. Once becomes a suspected kidnapping, the federal authorities can come in and help those local police departments. And we do come in with a lot of experts in several different aspects. DNA, cellular stuff, bau, our behavioral analysis unit, all this can help those local police departments get a grip on what's going on here and help them work through the case.

Nancy Grace (9:53)

And I understand, I disagree, but I understand why. They are very possessive of the case that they started investigating. And they look, when I was state prosecutor, I liked the feds because I had been a fed, been a fed before, but I also loathed them because they act like they know everything, because they do. But they really rub it in and they bigfoot you. Nobody likes that. But when you're trying to do what's best for your case, you let them in. So I wonder about how much the delay of bringing the feds in on this caused the investigation. And now we're seeing the first fatality. I'm not saying the DNA was planted. That's impossible because we don't know who the culprit is yet. Right. So you can't plant the DNA. That said, Kelly Hyman is right. This DNA is going to be subjected to a strict scrutiny and a heated cross examination. And I hope the state and the DNA can survive. Look at O.J. does somebody really believe the LAPD had the wherewithal to go plant the victim's blood on Simpson's socks? No. And I guarantee you, after all these years, whoever did the planting or who knows about the planting, would have done a blockbuster movie and a book and made millions and millions of dollars. Hasn't happened because that didn't happen. Nobody planted this DNA. It was impossible at this juncture. Now, speaking of DNA so heavily, and I haven't even gotten to the rest of the news, to Tammy Ballard joining us. She is a DNA crime scene consultant. Crime scene investigation and reconstruction is her specialty. Former. This is the important part. For our purposes tonight, former DNA criminalist at the San Diego Police Department crime lab, San Diego. Never a lack of business, never a lack of DNA experimentation going on in that lab. Tammy Ballard, thank you for being with us. Okay, you're the expert. I can make a stab at asking you the questions, but you tell me your thoughts first. By the way, that's how I would always approach an expert when preparing for trial. I recognize you know a lot more than any of us on this panel about DNA. So instruct us, teach us. Tell me your thoughts on this, Tammy Ballard.

Tammy Ballard (12:27)

Well, with respect to the finding the DNA two weeks later, my first thought would be to compare that to the DNA from everybody who has entered that resident just to rule that out so there's no embarrassment down the road. I'm not. Nobody's perfect. I've returned to scenes and found additional evidence. Everybody wishes they could go to a scene and process just to make sure they didn't overlook anything. The two week later thing is a little tough, but it is what it is. And again, the important thing is that that's getting.

Nancy Grace (13:08)

I need to follow up on something you just said. Did you say that you, Tammy Ballard, have gone back to scenes to process them again?

Tammy Ballard (13:17)

If more information has come out and I'm allowed to go to a scene and check for additional items, I've also returned to a scene with one of the gurus, Tom Bevel, who is from Bevel, Gardner and Associ, and walked through my double homicide with him and learned from him about some additional stains that I could have collected. So, you know, you got to stay humble, stay open. Everybody there should be as a team and just trying to do the right thing and find Nancy Guthrie and the perpetrator.

Nancy Grace (13:55)

Okay. That sentiment is shared by everyone on the panel. What do you mean you went back with Bevel and he pointed out additional things that you should have tested and then that point, from that point on you did that. What additional things did he instruct for you to test?

Tammy Ballard (14:10)

Well, if we're speaking technically, I had an interesting injury on one of my victims in the double homicide and there was a blood stain pattern adjacent to where his head had been. And I learned from Tom Bevel that actually wasn't an additional shot fired sheared when it struck the victim. So it was changed my number of shots fired. It made me look so much closer at blood stain patterns.

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Nancy Grace (16:21)

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tammy, you said that the bullet sheared. What do you mean by that?

Tammy Ballard (16:32)

One of the bullets struck my victim in the forehead and actually some of the bullet fragments entered into his head and some of them sheared off and went directly perpendicular to the victim's head through the door. So tiny, tiny circular stains that I had overlooked after being in a crime scene for probably 24 hours. That was something that I had overlooked. And it was great to have somebody who is an absolute legend in the field be able to walk through my scene with me and point that out. So that was very useful.

Nancy Grace (17:15)

Wow, that, that's a great rendition. Okay. That would support going back to the scene. And you're right, everyone that has processed the scene has to now be tested for DNA. They have to give their DNA to prove it's not their DNA that's been found. And we see that a lot in when there are claims of contamination or cross contamination, like within the lab, somebody touched the specimen and got their DNA in it. It's, it's a, it's a horrible, horrible detour for the state to have to make when presenting a case right up front. You have to say, yeah, we screwed up the DNA, but yet I want you to believe the DNA. So that's a problem. But what the prize is is finding Nancy Guthrie, and that is just a sideshow. We'll deal with that if and when we ever get to trial. So what type of DNA Tammy Ballard, do you believe was found, obviously by the feds by two weeks? And Dave Mack, anybody on the panel jump in if I'm wrong? After about two weeks, I'm pretty sure the feds were already in. There was a standoff For a while where the locals did not want them in, they're refusing to admit that it's true. They did get in. So I'm imagining it's them that went back. So what type of DNA do you believe they found they didn't see the first time.

Tammy Ballard (18:48)

I can only imagine that it was going to be an item of evidence that is an outlier, not necessarily a blood stain or any touch DNA from something that is stationary in the home. I'm expecting or I would imagine that it's going to be some sort of article from something that is something that you can remove from that home. So not a table, not a sofa. It's going to be some sort of article of clothing or a jewel or something that is going to be that outlier where they will the DNA from that item.

Nancy Grace (19:28)

Again, joining us in all star panel, trying to make sense of everything you know to Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us, psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock and find her at drmethanymarshall.com Dr. Bethany I know that this is a step forward, but sometimes it must feel for the family that it's one step forward, two steps back.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (19:57)

You know, NANCY of course it feels that way to them because what's horrible for the family is the unknown. They have no idea if their mother is dead or alive. They don't know how she's been been treated. And Nancy, when we face the unknown, we project into it our worst possible fears. That's how we evolved as a species biologically, is we we evolved to be suspicious of the unknown so we could keep ourselves safe. But that's what causes anxiety, right? When we don't know how a situation is going to turn out. So in this case with the mother, they're going to be wondering like is she cold? Is she being fed? What about her medications? How has she been treated by the perpetrator? Are they kind to her? Are they cruel to her? Has she passed? If so, under what circumstances? Was there somebody there to hold her hand? I mean this is, this is agonizing for the family. They need to know, they need all these details so that they can sleep, so that they can think, so that they can move on with their lives. They need their mother back, whether she's deceased or alive. NANCY they need to know what's happened to her,

Nancy Grace (21:10)

you know. Dr. Bethany Marshall When I learned there was new DNA, well, let me rephrase. Newly discovered DNA, I was elated. But then I was immediately concerned and worried about how the DNA was going to be attacked and how this would affect the family. They'll be happy at first, but then they'll start questioning the entire investigation. Why wasn't it found to start with? It could be something as simple. Tammy Ballard is going back in to do. I don't know. Let's just go with a touch DNA analysis. Redoing the home with an alternate light source to find DNA after they realized the perp had been touching with the gloves on. Touching that bite light over and over and over. Touching the holster over and over and over. That's just what we saw. What else did we not see, for Pete's sake? Did he blow his nose? I don't know. But maybe after they evaluated that door cam video, they got an idea and went back in. It could be as innocent and easily explainable as that, right?

Tammy Ballard (22:28)

Correct. They definitely went back into the process. And again, hopefully with a fresh set of eyes and more of a diverse approach so that they can. Additional evidence can be obtained. So again, I can only speculate, but there's always the chance that something fell off of the perpetrator with a struggle. So maybe that was something that got overlooked. It could have been underneath the side of a couch. It could have been something that just kicked. When everybody's in the home and they realize that it's there. So it's something to consider. And my thought would be worry about getting DNA from that item now, worry about excluding other people from it that have been in the house for the investigation and the family members, and then worry about the downstream process later.

Nancy Grace (23:26)

You're right. You're right, guys. The reason we're spending so much time on the newly discovered DNA is because it could crack the case wide open. There's not just codis, the National DNA Data bank, there is also the Arizona Data bank that allows much more diverse, let me say euphemistically, DNA profiles in there. You can have DNA from crime scenes that are unsolved. You can have DNA from just suspects that have not been convicted. You can have all sorts of DNA in the area Arizona Data Bank. That is not allowed due to strict regulation of the national CODIS Data Bank. See where I'm going with this? It's a much more diverse array of DNA and there's over a half a million DNA profiles in the Arizona Data Bank. Then you've got Interpol's DNA Data Bank. You even have Ifamilia, which is out of Mexico and other jurisdictions. Now, the Mexican DNA Data bank deals mostly with identifying missing people, dead Bodies, victims that have not been identified. But still, there is DNA in there to be mined. So we're just getting started with the whole DNA process. And speaking of Mexico, straight out to Dave Mack from crime stories. Dave mack. We are learning regardless of what nanose keeps trying to stuff down her throat. I'm not swallowing. Number one, they are looking in Mexico, and it's not just them. Isn't it true the Guthrie family has reached out to a group of moms in Mexico that search for missing people?

Dave Mack (25:11)

Tell me the searching mothers of Sonora. That's who the Guthrie family has reached out to. This group of women actually search for missing people in Sonora. Now, the reason this is important, Nancy, is there is Nogales, Arizona, and Nogales, Sonora, Mexico, just across the border. We're talking 60 miles south of Tucson. You go through Nogales, Arizona, to Nogales, Mexico. And the searching mothers of Sonora have been contacted by the Guthrie family to try and help find Nancy Guthrie. It is more than just possible, Nancy, that Nancy Guthrie could have been taken across the border right there at Nogales.

Nancy Grace (25:59)

Okay. I am so ill right now. Dave MacD. Scott Iker. The family is having to reach out to Mexico.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (26:13)

What?

Nancy Grace (26:15)

Why is the family having to do the work of the sheriff? Of course they should reach out to Mexico. Do I believe she's in Mexico? Don't know. Could be because it's so close. But why is the family. Why is Savannah Guthrie and her siblings at a time like this having to do the job of law enforcement? Help me out, Iker.

Scott Eicher (26:39)

It is kind of strange that their families doing the reaching out. You got to remember, I believe the FBI and maybe the sheriff's office is reaching out to Mexico, but not telling us about it. They should be doing that in the first place because Tucson is only 60 miles from the border. But these nonprofit situations, hey, you know, why not use anything that we can? And if the Guthrie family thinks, hey, this mom. Nonprofit group and just across the board can help at all, let's. Why not try that, too?

Savannah Guthrie's Sibling (27:11)

I wanted to come on, and it's been two weeks since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to come on and say that we still have hope and we still believe you can

Nancy Grace (27:35)

buy a burner phone under any name not your own.

Scott Eicher (27:38)

You don't have to put a name on it because you've already paid the phone company. What they want is their money.

Nancy Grace (27:45)

So you may never know if it weren't for the video. Who bought the burner phone used outside Nancy Guthrie's home at the time she was kidnapped. The feds and the locals tracking down every single tip. All this while 84 year old Nancy Guthrie is missing. You know, we're talking about reaching out to Mexico and finding out whether Nancy Guthrie was taken across the border, which is entirely possible since it is so close to Nancy Guthrie's home. What about it, Dave Mack?

Dave Mack (28:21)

Not only very close, Nancy, but the crossing point at Nogales, for example. Example, Nogales in Sonora, Mexico. So we've got a quick shot. You realize that the glove that was tossed out of a vehicle, we don't know if it's a glove that we're looking at right there, but it was tossed out on a road heading towards Interstate 19. Interstate 19 runs from near Nancy Guthrie's home straight to Nogales. And crossing the border from the United States into Mexico, far different than coming the other way. Only 1 in 25 or so vehicles even gets checked. Going across the border from the United States into Mexico. Crossing at any time, not that difficult. Crossing at night, simple. And getting a woman out of the United States into Mexico be a breeze. So looking in Nogales is not only smart at this point, I cannot believe they're not feet on the ground.

Nancy Grace (29:21)

Looking to Dr. Bethany Marshall. You have familiarity with the searching mothers of Sonora. What can you tell me?

Dr. Bethany Marshall (29:28)

I do, because I've heard them interviewed. Nancy, these women are fierce. They are sick and tired of this culture of kidnap, okay? And they have different tools at their disposal. They may not have all the DNA testing and all of that, but they have something very powerful. They have connections. They know people. They know people who know people. And they have many of them, their own husbands and sons who have been abducted. So they are on the search, they are on the hunt, and they are people to be reckoned with. And I think it's very smart that the family reached out to them.

Nancy Grace (30:03)

Dave Mack, Another issue with extending the search into Mexico is that Mexican authorities, and we've seen this with Americans that go missing there and fall to violence there, don't go to Mexico on a vacation. Just listen to me, all right? They have a very different standard of investigation than we do in the U.S. they do, Nancy.

Dave Mack (30:31)

And, you know, it's, it's just a different culture. And when we have actually been involved in investigations in Mexico, and I say we being the United States of America, oftentimes we run up against local authorities who are not necessarily on the up and up, as we would expect. So a lot of times in Mexico, when we're dealing even with law Enforcement, Nancy. We don't know who's the real law enforcement and who's really in charge. This is a problem that Mexico has acknowledged for years, that they have a problem in their own policing. So that's the problem we run up

Savannah Guthrie's Sibling (31:09)

against to whoever has her or knows where she is, that it's never too late and you're not lost or alone. And. And it is never too late to do the right thing. And we are here. We believe and we believe in the essential goodness of every human being. And it's never too late. On behalf of our family, we want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom, Nancy. We feel them, and we continue to believe that she feels them, too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She's funny, spunky and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll see the light is missing from our lives. Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day.

Nancy Grace (33:14)

There you see the Guthrie siblings begging for the return of their mother. Nancy Guthrie. The investigation goes on now extending into Mexico. We learn hopefully the Mexican I Familia database will be used for DNA as well as international databases. Guys, we also are learning about polygraphs that went down into the evening last night. Dave Mack, what about it?

Dave Mack (33:45)

Well, as normally a case develops with everybody involved, now you've got workers all around the house that are being investigated because they should. Anyone with access to the home has been brought in, and we're talking about people, even including the pool workers that came by the other day to clean the pool. Nancy Guthrie doesn't normally have a pool cleaning service. The family called it out to make sure that it was being kept up. But you know what, Nancy? Everybody with access to that home, everybody with access to Nancy Guthrie, probably people at church as well as everywhere else, is being polygraphed to find out everything law enforcement can at this point. And as you mentioned early on, somebody rejecting a polygraph is going to become a huge suspect date.

Nancy Grace (34:33)

Mack, did you actually say that the church congregates are being polygraphed or they should be polygraphed?

Dave Mack (34:41)

Should be polygraphed. I misspoke. But everybody should be.

Nancy Grace (34:44)

Nancy, actually, I agree with you. I'm not impugning them or suggesting wrongdoing on their part, but Everyone connected to Nancy Guthrie should volunteer for a polygraph. Done. What's the problem? So the reason I'm saying that Kelly Hyman is here's the gold standard mark class. When his daughter Polly went missing, she was abducted in a sleepover party of her and her little friends at her mom's home. Well, they came bamming on his door, and he went, fine, take my fingerprints, do whatever you want. Search my place, search my car, search my office. I'll do a poly right now so you can get past me and find my daughter. So I don't see a problem with everybody connected to Nancy Guthrie getting a polygraph. Now, of course, they are not allowed in a criminal trial unless stipulated ahead of time. We all know that. All the legal eagles know that. But I have used polygraphs as an investigative tool in the past.

Kelly Hyman (35:47)

No stone should go unturned, Nancy, in this case. And so the polygraphs should be done as well. And you're right. You bring up a really good point. If there's nothing to hide, if there's, you know, transparency, then it's really important for people to give polygraphs. It's really important for people to give up their. Their DNA, which, you know, the family has given their DNA and been ruled out as suspect. But going back to the DNA, like, it's really important that this kind of stuff is key to the case. Why the DNA is so important because it can help substantiate who is there. And DNA can be used in the court of law. Of course, now, the DNA that was found two weeks later could potentially be challenged, but it's really important to look at what is available. What is available in regards to resources that are out there, whether it's using the FBI database or potentially also looking at genetic databases as well, like something like 23andMe, in which people can opt out of their information and so that. That can't be discovered. However, with a court of law, potentially can get a. A warrant out there to that DNA as well.

Nancy Grace (37:11)

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Polygraphs going down at the Pima Sheriff's Office. No revelation as of right now as to who is being polygraphed. This as a reality show has reared its ugly head. Dave Mack, A reality show, Nancy.

Dave Mack (37:32)

The show is called Desert Law. It encompasses the Pima County Sheriff's Department, which is one of the largest in the country. And believe it or not, this is an embedded elite group of sheriff's deputies that are being followed by cameras on a daily basis. And the show just premiered. So we're talking about A program on A E that just premiered as this is exploding all over the country. And by the way, the sheriff, nanos is not particularly featured on the program yet but he is consulting and directing where to head with different investigations and helping the actual show behind the scenes. So yes, Desert law live from p.

Nancy Grace (38:17)

Mechanic to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Joining us, psychoanalyst. The sheriff's office in the Nancy Guthrie case has its own reality show. Now apparently nanos has not appeared on camera yet, but coordinates with the production company behind the scenes. Okay, so I don't know, just gut reaction, not a good look. Thoughts?

Dr. Bethany Marshall (38:38)

It's not a good look. You know Nancy, I've been on so many reality shows, they take hours and hours. When you watch five minutes on a reality TV show, sometimes those people that the cast members have been filmed for three or four days to get that five minutes. So we're worried about not enough resources on the ground there in, in, in that particular jurisdiction. But all those resources are being pulled away towards a TV show. It's really diluting the resources that they need to find Nancy Guthrie. That was my gut reaction to this.

Nancy Grace (39:14)

You know, I'm curious Kelly, what do you think about this? I don't know if it would hurt a trial or not. Maybe. How?

Kelly Hyman (39:25)

Well, when you look at it from a legal perspective and you think about the trial that you have to look at the prosecution that brings the case, they have to prove every element of the the crime. They have to prove every element. So when you look at that, you're only going to be looking at what exactly the charges are, whether it's kidnapping and what are the elements to prove those crimes. Because when the jury sit, as you know Nancy, they're not supposed to look at outside evidence. They're only supposed to look at evidence that is going to affect the case and that is going to help substantiate the case as well. And so when the juries look at that, they're just going to look at the charges and also what the prosecution to prove up the case.

Nancy Grace (40:08)

You know, there's another issue. Nanos is now hosting a number of cherry picked reporters. His teachers pets in his office for one on one interviews. His office is professionally lit for tv. What happened to good old fashioned pressers where everybody shows up and asks the hard questions? What about it, Scott Eicher?

Scott Eicher (40:36)

Well, if you're going to do cherry picking of press and reporters, you've got the control of the interview and it's not going to look crazy like it does in a regular press conference. So I think if he wants to limit his exposure and try to maintain the integrity of the case, maybe it's a good idea to, you know, do one on ones instead of, you know, getting beat up by, you know, 40 different reporters.

Nancy Grace (41:03)

Investigative reporter Dave Mack, can I confirm with you that today is February 19th?

Dave Mack (41:12)

Yes, it is February 19th, 2026.

Nancy Grace (41:14)

I'm very surprised it took you that long to answer. But that said to Dr. Bethany Marshall, the last presser was February 5th. Bethany?

Dr. Bethany Marshall (41:25)

February 5th, Nancy, I noticed that as well. And I started watching some of the individual interviews that he gave. And he's choosing reporters from very big networks like maybe News Nation or cnn. And that leaves out, that weeds out the reporters from smaller outlets that really might ask incisive questions, just like the reality TV show. Nancy, this is diluting his time, diluting his resources. He could take one hour doing a presser, but instead hours and hours individually with reporters. This is time he could spend finding Nancy Guthrie.

Nancy Grace (42:05)

Scott Eicher, before we continue down the trail of finger pointing at a time when Nancy Guthrie is still missing, what about the possibility that has been brought up of tracking vehicles in the area through gps, through their own GPS trackers? How would that even work? Wouldn't you have to know which car it was in order to get into their nav system?

Scott Eicher (42:27)

Well, there's several different aspects. I mean, we know that some, some cars, some of the newer cars have cell phones in them. We're doing that with the cast team. We also know that a lot of companies put GPS trackers on their vehicles. Rental car companies put GPS trackers on their vehicles. So we could go to them and pull and see what if any of their vehicles were in the area of Ms. Guthrie's residence around the time she went missing. So another avenue to track vehicles in and out of the area.

Nancy Grace (43:01)

Isn't it true? Of course, you got to get it through subpoena. They won't just hand it over on Silver Platter that, for instance, SiriusXM and other infotainments can be traced in that area. Isn't that true? Just a thought.

Scott Eicher (43:21)

SiriusXM is a satellite, music entertainment aspect or subscription. They don't track your locations. But OnStar does something like OnStar. When you hit the button, ask for help. They can track your location. But the nav systems in all the vehicles, like if they recover a vehicle from this case or they think and if you remember the Range Rover that they recovered or took from those individuals that they stopped, they're going to pull a nav system out of that and see if that vehicle was in fact in the area of Nancy Guthrie's residence at the time she went missing.

Nancy Grace (43:56)

Well, I agree and disagree with you, Scott Eicher. Standard SiriusXM satellite radio only receives signals and cannot track a car. You're right. However, vehicles with active Sirius XM connected vehicle services like Guardian, uconnect, we've got uconnect can be tracked as these use GPS and cell networks to provide location data to track. You've got to have an active subscription. It's active subscription based telematics. Now explain to everyone in regular people talk what that means.

Scott Eicher (44:38)

Connected vehicles, that's the term there, that makes them, that it connects it all actually is that if it has a cell phone in it or if it has a GPS device in it, we can track that vehicle. That's what OnStar does when you need help.

Nancy Grace (44:54)

As a matter of fact, a case that we investigated, the Debbie Collier death, her car, the location of her vehicle and ultimately her dead body was found because of her Sirius XM cell service. They picked up that WI fi, I guess you would call it, trail, and they found Debbie Collier. That's one of the ways they found her. There's one way versus two way. There's standard satellite radio that's one way receive only that does not transmit a car's location. Then you've got the connected services. Now that's possible through SiriusXM Guardian. It's very common in a Chrysler, a Dodge, a Jeep, a Ram. These services use GPS and LTE cell networks, not satellite radio signals themselves. You could maybe get a beat on stolen vehicle assistance if you have an active subscription. Now all of these systems can be disabled, but that doesn't mean it's not worth a try. Guys, polygraphs. New DNA searches now extending into Mexico. Are the feds taking over the case from Pima County? All that brewing as the search for Nancy Guthrie goes on. If you know or think you know anything about this case, please dial 1-800-225-5324 or if you wish to remain anonymous. 520-882-7463. There is a 200,000 plus dollar reward. We remember American hero Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaze, Russ County Sheriff's Wisconsin. Shot and killed in the line of duty, leaving behind a wife, now widow Sarah, and three children without a father. American hero Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaze, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friends.