SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 26

Summary

Podcast Summary: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 26
Release Date: February 26, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Savannah Guthrie, Dave Mack, Mary Coleman, Brian Fitzgibbons, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Tammy Ballard, Scott Eicher

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Overview

This episode of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace focuses on the ongoing and mysterious disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, mother of Today Show host Savannah Guthrie. Now at “Day 26” since her abduction from her home in the dead of night, Nancy Grace dissects the latest in the investigation: DNA evidence pointing to a stranger, puzzling ransom notes, federal involvement, the challenge of mixed DNA analysis, baffling digital blackouts, and the hope—and psychological strategy—behind the newly increased $1.2 million reward. The episode features firsthand insights from Savannah Guthrie, local journalists, crime and forensic experts, and explores the emotional devastation and forensic complexities surrounding the case.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Disappearance and Family’s Agony

• Incident Recap:
  • Nancy Guthrie, 84, was kidnapped from her bed by an unknown intruder in the middle of the night. (01:31)
• Savannah Guthrie’s Emotional Pleas:
  • Savannah provides a heartfelt statement reflecting the family’s ongoing anguish and fear.

  "Every hour and minute and second and every long night has been agony...just missing her.” — Savannah Guthrie [01:51]

  • The family's public sightings show visible distress as days mount without meaningful updates.

2. Ransom Notes and Media Involvement

• Nature and Authenticity of Notes:
  • Mary Coleman (KOLD news anchor) describes receiving two notes at her station. The first was a ransom note, the second more of a declaration without specific demands. (03:43–09:19)
  • Notes were “clear, concise, and contained details only someone close would know.”

  "How eloquent this person was...It was clear, concise...That was most alarming to us." — Mary Coleman [07:23]

• Absence of Proof of Life:
  • No visual proof (photo, video, etc.) was provided in any note. (08:58)
• Unusual Ransom Dynamics:
  • Notably, the kidnapper(s) waited over 72 hours after the abduction to make contact—a rare behavioral pattern.
  • Ransom notes were sent to media instead of direct family contact, which crime expert Brian Fitzgibbons points out as non-standard in abductions.

  "These ransom notes...don’t meet any of the traditional hallmarks of a kidnap and ransom case." — Brian Fitzgibbons [14:39]

• Threatening Content:
  • The first note alluded to harm if payment was not received; the second note omitted threats, serving to emphasize the seriousness of the prior message. (11:42)

3. Scene Activity: Federal and Forensic Investigation

• Federal Prosecutors on Scene:
  • Unusual visible presence of federal agents and prosecutors at the home, with secretive entries and a long, meticulous search. (04:27–06:41)
• FBI Elite Video and Audio Team:
  • FBI’s elite forensic audio/video/image analysis unit is on-site, mirroring techniques used in other high-profile cases (e.g. Kohberger case).
  • Prosecutors walk the scene to gain firsthand perspective for possible prosecution and to ensure all evidence is meticulously catalogued before releasing the house. (28:16–35:51)

4. DNA Analysis and Forensic Complexity

• Discovery of Mixed Stranger DNA:
  • DNA found at the scene does not match Nancy, family, or known associates—it is definitively "stranger DNA."
  • Analysis is complicated by the presence of multiple contributors (“mixed DNA”), reportedly slowing down the process.
• Expert Clarification on Mixed DNA:
  • Forensic expert Tammy Ballard explains that mixed DNA is standard with modern sensitivity and can often be resolved sooner than the year suggested by the sheriff’s department. (20:21)

  "Mixtures of DNA are everywhere...Technology is advancing so much...we’re able to deal with those mixtures so much better now...Not going to take a year." — Tammy Ballard [20:21, 25:52]

• Explaining DNA Percentages:
  • Contribution levels from different people in mixed samples can now be estimated with specialized software, assisting in identifying potential unknown suspects. (25:11–25:52)

5. Criminal Psychology and Behavior

• Victim Experience:
  • Psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall explains the likely psychological/physiological response of an elderly woman abducted from her bed: shock, disorientation, denial, confusion, pain, and the high-risk first 45 minutes of an abduction. (16:11)
• Reward Strategy:
  • The newly raised $1.2 million reward is highlighted as a critical tool to break criminal “bonds of loyalty,” appealing not to morality but to greed within the perpetrator’s close circle. (38:34)

  "Somebody who sees a $1.2 million reward is going to start to think, hmm, who do I know that was out in the middle of the night?” — Dr. Bethany Marshall [38:34]

6. Digital Blackout: Cellular Forensics

• Digital Blackout Phenomenon:
  • “Digital blackout” refers to suspects disabling electronic devices during critical events to avoid detection. (40:09)
  • FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team examines “pattern of life,” seeking not just the absence of devices at the scene the night of the crime but also their presence before/after (“bookending”).

  "A digital blackout is when suspects turn off their electronic devices so their phones cannot be tracked..." — Scott Eicher [42:46]

• Identification Challenges:
  • In remote areas with less cell tower density, it’s possible but challenging to isolate suspect devices, even with few people moving in/out at odd hours. (46:50)

  "You might look at 10 different towers, all covering...two or three miles...That’s a lot of data still to go through." — Scott Eicher [46:50–49:10]

• Comparison with Other High-Profile Cases:
  • Reference to similar techniques used in the Kohberger and Suzanne Morphew investigations, where blackout was a pivotal clue.

7. The Call for Tips and Final Pleas

• Public Appeal:
  • Over 2,000 tips have come in, though most have not been substantial. (51:11)
  • Hosts and guests repeatedly stress that “all it takes is one tip” and urge listeners to contact the FBI or the designated tipline. (51:34)
• Savannah Guthrie’s Poignant Closing:

  "Hope against hope. As my sister says, we are blowing on the embers of hope. ...If this is what is to be, then we will accept it. But we need to know where she is. We need her to come home.” — Savannah Guthrie [37:18]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mary Coleman (on first ransom note):

  "How eloquent this person was...you would think, you know, some note like this would be all over the place...But this person was clearly in a place where they were able to get their thoughts across." [07:23]

• Nancy Grace (on digital blackouts and cellular forensics):

  “One thing you’re an expert in, that’s trying a case. But as a layperson, how hard can it be? You’ve got it narrowed down for an area, one hour in a remote area.” [47:51]

• Dr. Bethany Marshall (on reward psychology):

  “Somebody who sees a $1.2 million reward is going to start to think, hmm, who do I know that was out in the middle of the night at that night?” [38:34]

• Savannah Guthrie (closing):

  “We are blowing on the embers of hope...But we need to know where she is. We need her to come home.” [37:18]

• Tammy Ballard (on DNA tech):

  “With the current computer technology, the software...can actually estimate...the percent of contribution from each person in that mixture.” [25:52]

• Scott Eicher (on cell tower analysis):

  “That neighborhood might not have a lot of activity, but you expand out to the coverage area...you have hundreds of phones and devices...” [46:50]

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:31] – Kidnapping Recap, Emotional Family Statement
• [03:43] – Discussion of Ransom Notes with Mary Coleman
• [07:23] – Nature of the Ransom Note: Eloquent, Detailed
• [11:42] – Threats in the Ransom Note
• [14:39] – Brian Fitzgibbons Analyzes Ransom Note Strategy
• [16:11] – Dr. Bethany Marshall on Abduction Psychology
• [20:21] – Tammy Ballard Explains Mixed DNA
• [28:16] – FBI Elite Video/Audio Team and Prosecutors at Scene
• [35:51] – Scene Preservation and Importance of Measurements
• [38:34] – Dr. Bethany Marshall on Reward as a Motivator
• [40:09] – Cell Phone Data and Digital Blackout Introduction
• [42:46] – Scott Eicher on Digital Blackout Mechanics
• [46:50] – Cell Phone Tower and Device Identification Challenges
• [51:11] – Over 2,000 Public Tips and Final Plea

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Summary Tone and Style

The episode maintains Nancy Grace's signature urgency, skepticism, and emotional directness, blending technical explanations with powerful human moments. It’s rich in both procedural insight and the personal heartbreak of an unresolved disappearance—cutting between the technical (“mixes of DNA are everywhere”) and the tragic (“every hour ... has been agony”).

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Useful for Listeners

• Thorough breakdown of the current state of the investigation into Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance.
• Expert commentary on forensic DNA and cellular tracking technology.
• Insights into the psychology of both perpetrators and the affected family.
• Clear explanation of the role of media in ransom dynamics.
• Information on how to submit tips (1-800-CALL-FBI / 520-882-7463).
• Emotional context for the family’s ongoing trauma and public advocacy.

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If you have information related to Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance:
Call FBI Tip Line: 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324)
Anonymous tips: 520-882-7463
Reward: $1.2+ million for information leading to her recovery

Transcript

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing day 26. This after a flurry of activity at Nancy Guthrie's home, including federal prosecutors. One in a blacked out SUV that drives into the garage and is never seen. With what's going on inside of Nancy Guthrie's home just a few hours ago, this as we learn, DNA found in the home does not match Nancy Guthrie or her friends and family. So whose is it and what does a digital blackout have to do with catching the the kidnapper? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[Dave Mack]

Intruder or intruders came into the home, snuck into her room, awakened her out of a dead sleep and took this 84 year old grandmother out of her own bed.

[Nancy Grace]

A little old lady dragged out of her own bed.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Hi there. Coming on to say it is day 24 since our mom was taken in the dark of night from her bed. And every hour and minute and second and every long night has been agony since then of worrying about her and fearing for her, aching for her and most of all just missing her, just missing her.

[Nancy Grace]

Savannah Guthrie, you can see her deteriorating with every missive, with every video plea that she issues. That reward is full of implications. For instance, earlier, up until that time the reward had been predicated upon the arrest and or conviction of the kidnapper. Not so anymore. The family begging for information to bring Nancy Guthrie home. This as we learn a DNA sample found in the home is absolutely definitively stranger. DNA. Where was it found? When was it found? Can it be isolated and identified? A lot happening. Straight out to special guest joining us, Mary Coleman. She is the 13 evening anchor at Kold. If you will recall, that was one of the stations that got a ransom note. Mary Coleman, thank you for being with us. Mary, what is the latest?

[Mary Coleman]

Well, Nancy, talking about the ransom note, a lot of people have questioned why there's been silence. We personally haven't received any notes for a while now and a lot of people are still questioning the legitimacy of those notes. Law enforcement still hasn't said one way or another, but it was clear when the family started coming out with those videos that they were taking these notes very seriously because of some of the contents of them.

[Nancy Grace]

There was a flurry of activity at the home yesterday, including federal prosecutors on the scene. You're seeing that video now from our friends at Fox News, Mary Coleman, can you confirm those were in fact federal prosecutors as we assumed last night?

[Mary Coleman]

Yes, we can. We have confirmed that FBI agents along with U.S. attorney's office were out there and a lot of people had some questions about that. You know, if there's no one to prosecute yet, why are they out there? And I feel like you might be able to shed some light on that.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, take a look at what we saw yesterday. This is from our friends at FOX News to you, Dave Mack, crime Stories investigative reporter. You and I closely combed through the video to determine what we were seeing yesterday. Again, a flurry of activity. They were there throughout the day, on and off, on and off. One of them shielded from view by taking the black, the blackened windowed SUV into the garage, closing the door, going in and then coming back out without ever being seen. What did you observe, Dave Mack?

[Dave Mack]

You know, Nancy, it was very secretive with that one vehicle. Now, as all the vehicles pulled in, we could see the different investigators getting out. They were dressed differently than what we had seen with deputies and other investigators. We're talking about suit and tie here. Those are your federal prosecutors that were looking over this entire scene. But Nancy, they spent a lot of time, they being the investigators on scene yesterday. The federal prosecutors spent a long time at the front door where the blood was found right there in front of that NEST camera location. They spent almost an hour in that one area. Investigators also looked just inside in the foyer, spent an enormous, a large amount of time there. But as you mentioned, we did have multiple vehicles pulling in. They all stayed in order except for one. And that was a blackened out suv. You could not see through the windows. It pulls in. They waited in front of the garage door. Garage door opens, the vehicle pulls in. Garage door shuts before anybody gets out. We don't know who was in the vehicle. We don't know who got out. It was there for about an hour and then it left the same way it came in. No sign of who was in that vehicle. But it was a very active day on site yesterday.

[Nancy Grace]

Tammy Ballard joining us on DNA. Tammy, I Want you to hear what Mary Coleman has to say about the discovery of DNA in the home. Mary Coleman joining us. K O L D Also, Mary, were you there at your station when the first note came in?

[Mary Coleman]

The mood was still the same when I got in. When we saw the first notes, just because of how put together the note was, it was pretty alarming once we started to read it a little further, and we immediately handed that over to law enforcement.

[Nancy Grace]

What was so alarming about it?

[Mary Coleman]

I think how eloquent this person was, frankly, Nancy. I mean, you would think, you know, some note like this would be all over the place. It's a ransom note. Someone's demanding something, so you would think that they'd be in a state of shock or, you know, a different state. But this person was clearly in a place where they were able to get their thoughts across. It was clear, concise, and. And I think that was what was most alarming to us, is that that's when we said, okay, this might be real. This might not be a hoax.

[Nancy Grace]

What about it made you think it was real, Mary?

[Mary Coleman]

There were some details in there that only a person who perhaps was with Nancy would know. And I think, you know, law enforcement finally alluded to some of those details a little bit later on a watch and some of the things that may have been in her room. And so seeing those and hearing about that was just. It was a lot for us to see. And again, immediately sent it over to law enforcement, who also immediately got back to us and asked for some more details so that they could try and track down who it was. And as we also mentioned again earlier, it's gone pretty silent from whoever this person or people is. As far as notes coming into our

[Nancy Grace]

newsroom, Mary, did that note that you observed with Kold, did it offer proof of life other than the details about the inside of her room?

[Mary Coleman]

It did not, Nancy. And we actually received two notes. The first one I would call a ransom note. The second I wouldn't. There were no demands there, but there was no proof of life in either of those notes that we received.

[Nancy Grace]

The first one was a ransom. The second one, they did not ask for a ransom. What did they want?

[Mary Coleman]

It was more of a declaration. And unfortunately, I still can't talk too much about the contents of these notes because, once again, we still don't know the legitimacy of them, and law enforcement is still looking into that. But there were no requests in this note. It was more of a declaration. And I think the tone of the videos that the family released after Kind of indicated what may have been in that note and how they were feeling about if these were legitimate.

[Nancy Grace]

Exactly. Mary, I understand, because the desperation exhibited in each progressive video from Savannah and her siblings tells me that they got more and more concern, likely because of these notes. So you're not telling me this, but I am interpreting that the second note, while it did not demand a ransom or an increase in ransom, it emphasized the seriousness of the first note. And, of course, you guys immediately handed that over. Guys, again, Mary Coleman joining us from Kold. We've heard a lot about the missive sent to TMZ. There was also a missive sent to KGUN2, sent to Kold, and the nature of the notes and the recipients indicated to me on day one that this was someone in the Tucson area that maybe grew up hearing or watching. KOLD was very familiar with it. That said, when you read the notes, Mary Coleman, and I'm not asking you to divulge their contents, I know you won't do that. Did you believe they were real and were you afraid for Mrs. Guthrie?

[Mary Coleman]

Sure, yeah. I mean, the first one, it took us a second once we started reading a little bit further, and that's when we felt like these were legitimate claims being made. And so by the time the second one came in, we were all very alarmed by it. And I will say that, yes, absolutely, our stomachs dropped and our guts were not feeling great. We were scared and still are scared for what happened to Nancy. And at the end of the day, day, the goal is getting her back. And that's, you know, what everyone wants right now.

[Nancy Grace]

I know you will not divulge details, but in the notes, did the per. Well, the person writing the notes threaten specific harm to Nancy?

[Mary Coleman]

Let's see. In the first note, there was an allusion to something that may happen if a price wasn't paid. In the second note, there. There was none of that.

[Nancy Grace]

So the first note was more threatening than the second note. The second note was more. Hey, I really meant it when I said that first note.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Sure.

[Mary Coleman]

Would that be accurate, supporting the first? Correct.

[Nancy Grace]

Got it. And then, interestingly, a lot of the missives went dead. And this is unlike any other ransom scenario I've ever seen. I've still got to get back to the DNA. That's what I want to talk about tonight. The DN found at the scene. But Brian Fitzgibbons is joining us. Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. He actually leads a team of missing persons investigators that travel the world, extracting them and finding them at uspasecurity.com, also former Marine, also Iraqi war vet. Needless to say, he's seen it all, typically in a ransom, which is why a lot of people were curious about the timing of these notes. The person is kidnapped and you immediately get a ransom. They don't just hold on to an 84 year old woman for multiple days and then go, oh yeah, hey, I meant to send this the other day, but now here it is. That was very unusual because the point of the kidnap is to get the money. And they waited for was it 72 hours or more before the first ransom note? I find it hard to believe. Brian, you have to analyze this like it's a Rubik's cube until you put it all together. Constantly changing your theory. I wonder if they hadn't decided yet to whom they would send the ransom because they originally sent it right to three places, tmz, Kold and I believe kgun. Did they not have it together? Because they had certainly been at her home before they had taken time to stake it out. But what they didn't have their ransom idea together. What do you make of the delay? And they never, to our knowledge, have sent visual proof of life like a video or a picture of Nancy Guthrie. They did, however, according to Mary Coleman, K O L D give details from the inside of her room. Now, some of the details were already out there, like her smartwatch, like the floodlight. But I'm inferring that there were more details in that ransom note that other people couldn't glean by just hopping on the Internet.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Absolutely. And these ransom notes that were sent to the media outlets don't meet any of the traditional hallmarks of a kidnap and ransom case. That's something that's been highlighted very early on.

[Dave Mack]

Right.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Reaching out to the media versus directly to the family, not having a clear and distinct path for payment and terms, not providing proof of life. You know, these are things that a typical kidnap and ransom case, the ransomer will want to be in direct contact with the family to make this deal as quickly as possible. And that didn't happen here. So it really lends credence to the idea that these were opportunists and not authentic.

[Nancy Grace]

To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction. She is the author of Deal Breakers. You can see her now on Peacock and find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com. we pointed out that we now know Nancy Guthrie did not go to the door and allow the perp in. And there's been a lot of speculation around, does that mean she knew the perp? Did she recognize his face or his voice that said that didn't happen. She was dragged from her bed. So an elderly grandma woken up at that time of night, what reaction would she have had?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Well, Nancy, we have to take several factors into account. Does she wear hearing aids? Were they out? How does that affect how she experienced the attack? Was she clothed or unclothed? Did she wear a CPAP machine? Does she have oxygen? So we have to think about all of that, Nancy. When somebody is attacked in the middle of the night, when they're asleep, especially an elderly person, the first response is shock. A shock to the system, like fight or flight. The next step is disorientation. Who am I? Where am I? What is happening? There's no ability to orient oneself to the environment. The third step is denial. This is not really happening to me. This couldn't be happening to me. The person dissociates from the reality, and then confusion sets in. And the final stage, Nancy, is extreme pain. You know, as seniors, your mother lives with you. You just touch their skin and peels back. The skin of seniors is very, very fragile. So if they are dragging her through the house, there's going to be extreme pain and extreme harm to the body. And the final thing, Nancy, is the first 45 minutes of a kidnap or abduction is the most dangerous time. So we have to think about what were these perps or the perp actually doing to her out of their own panic, their own ruthlessness to subdue her? And how did that lead to blood on the doorstep and then the blood, the blood trails stopping as they potentially carried her to a vehicle? Was she dead or alive at that point? Was she conscious or unconscious? What was she thinking? But certainly at that point, confusion, shock and disbelief.

[Nancy Grace]

Straight back to Mary Coleman joining us. K O L D. Crime files. Is it crime files, Investigator files. F I L E S. Okay, I'm sorry. I thought that must have been a typo.

[Mary Coleman]

Sorry.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime Files investigator Mary Coleman. We now know that DNA in Nancy Guthrie's home is. Is stranger DNA, but yet we are also hearing that there are problems because it's mixed DNA. What do you know?

[Mary Coleman]

Yeah, we're hearing the same thing, Nancy. We've been told that it's going to take a longer amount of time, even up to a year, to get some of this back. To let us know whether this person is in a system or whether they have a relative who we can trace this to or anything of that nature, which is obviously concerning time, is of the essence right now. We've seen this technology used in so many other cases. And so to hear that it's mixed and that it might not be as reliable as some of the other DNA that we've seen in previous cases is alarming for the community and especially for the family. As you can imagine, they just want answers here.

[Nancy Grace]

Who is it that is saying that it's a problem because the DNA is mixed? Did Nano say that this is coming

[Mary Coleman]

from the sheriff's department? I don't know if he specifically said that, but we received that in a press release that they had released.

[Nancy Grace]

I don't understand why they had to blurt that out. That said, straight out to Tammy Ballard joining us. Tammy is a crime scene investigation investigator and reconstructionist, former DNA criminalist for the San Diego Police Department crime lab. Tammy Ballard. In this day and age, mixed DNA is to be expected and is actually routine. Explain exactly how. Well, first of all, what is mixed DNA? Deoxyribonucleic acid. And how exactly mechanically is it evaluated and analyzed? And how do you do it? How do you handle mixed DNA?

[Tammy Ballard]

Mixtures of DNA are going to make law enforcement and attorneys very nervous. So in the DNA world, mixtures are everywhere. As technology advances, the sensitivity increases. You're going to find mixtures in almost everything, even blood stains that used to be single source. You might get that 1% contributor that's going to make it a mixture. That being said, in this case, we know Nancy's profile, we know her family's profiles. So there's a lot to work with and basically remove from those mixtures. Do I think it's going to take a year? Not at all. I think that's the law enforcement translation because it's probably lack of understanding. So what they've got is probably good mixtures that they have to deal with and they're going to put those out. But it is not going to take a year, in my opinion.

[Dave Mack]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know Tammy Ballard, little known Fact, DNA has been used for decades. It's been used on the battlefield to identify victims, our, our military. And it has advanced, advanced, advanced. I tried a lot of cases before it was accepted in court and a lot of cases after it was accepted in court, and it makes all the difference. When I heard nanos blurt out again, it could take a year. That's not true. Anyone that has worked with DNA knows that is not true. Now, what can take some time and please, Tammy, jump in. What can take some time is when you're trying to build out a family tree with genetic genealogy. That can take some time, it can take weeks, it could take a month, it does not take year. And I'll point to one of the first times it was used successfully in our country, and that is the Golden State Killer. I always use him as the poster boy for genetic genealogy because it was one of the first. Right. That didn't take a year and it had never been admitted into court before. So you said a couple of things I want to follow up on. Number one, you said there could be a mixture of 1%. What did you mean by 1%? 1% what?

[Tammy Ballard]

When I testify in court, as I just did last week, I inform a jury that the sensitivity is so advanced at this point and the technology is so advanced that when historically, if you would swab a blood stain off of a surface, you're going to get a single source profile, one person, your bleeder. Now, because that sensitivity has increased, I take a swab, I swab that blood stain and, and I'm very likely collecting cells from underneath that blood stain and those cells are showing up in my and creating a mixture of DNA. So what everyone needs to realize is that there are mixtures, but the technology is advancing so much that we're able to deal with those mixtures so much better. Now, there are limitations. So genealogy is not, is coming along very rapidly. But that type of testing, that SNP testing, not the traditional STR testing, has the limitations that you may not be able to work with something that is a three person mixture. Now, again, we have Nancy's profile. So if we take Nancy out of any mixture now, maybe we're dealing with a two person mixture and that might be something that we can use for genealogy. But with traditional STR tests, testing, we're up to evaluating five person mixtures. So it is definitely something that we can work with and it does not take a year.

[Nancy Grace]

Tammy, you said 1%. And when you were originally explaining DNR DNA, mixed DNA, and I took that to Mean the mixture could be 1% Nancy, and 99% the Stranger. Can you actually tell a jury we had a mixture of DNA? Let's just pretend we're talking about a rape case. We had a mixture of DNA and 50% of the DNA that we obtained off the victim's body was the victim's DNA. 50% was the defendant's DNA. You can actually ISO it down to a percentage.

[Tammy Ballard]

Yes. With the current computer technology, the software that is developed, you can actually estimate. Now it's an estimate. So you can estimate the percent of contribution from each person in that mixture. So when I report the data and I say, okay, I have a three person mixture, 92% of that is estimated to come from one contributor and 8% of that is estimated to come from another contributor. I say those values because I was able to get an 8% contributor up to a CODIS surveyor. So we are moving so far forward with the technology that it's just better and better. So as long as the laboratories that they're sending them to are utilizing this technology, which they are, this is not going to take a year.

[Dave Mack]

The videos from the front porch are not timestamped. We don't know the day time or anything. We only know what we're watching in front of us. There's they're having to pull back the video layer by layer.

[Nancy Grace]

Multiple law enforcement sources have confirmed those videos were absolutely two different days. I don't know why Nanos he'll say everything else but he won't confirm that. That said, in addition to DNA in the home absolutely belonging to a stranger now being analyzed. Tammy Ballard with us with any question you have regarding DNA she can answer it. That as we learn an elite FBI video team a video unit is forensic audio video and image analysis unit is back on the scene. Has been back on the scene. As we go to air tonight, Scott Eicher is joining us guys founding member at the FBI of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team Homicide Detective Norfolk, Virginia. 12 years now. A precision cellular analysis. Scott Eicher, thank you for being with us. What does it mean when the FBI is sending in an elite videography team and audio team? We saw this happen in Kohberger.

[Scott Eicher]

It's very helpful to have people that are experts in those each individual fields. As you know I'm an expert in this cellular stuff and networks but we have people that are experts in the video. I, I'm sure that they've already been involved in this case and been looking at the film clips that we got from the doorbell camera but there might be other things that they're now at the house or examining other doorbell camera from the neighborhood. So it's great that they could be further involved and use their expertise in pulling data.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm very curious about what it is that they're videoing. Guys. Here you see an aerial view video of what went down within the last 24 hours at Nancy Guthrie's home. They walked every inch of the outside. So that gives you an idea of what they did on the inside. A federal prosecutor, at least one was with them. This is my friend, friends at Fox News, look at them. They are stopping and looking at every thing of interest, everything. Now, as you recall, in the last days, a tent was erected around the front of Nancy Guthrie's home. Many believe that was there in order to get partial darkness, to perform certain tests that require partial darkness, such as luminol. You really need full darkness for that. But there are next generations that grew on that technology that don't need full darkness. We believe the FBI had ordered that as well. To you, Scott Eicher, when you see a federal prosecutor with the FBI at the scene combing over it with a fine tooth comb, what does that tell you? They're there. They have brought a videographer, an audio person. Why?

[Scott Eicher]

Well, there's nothing better than your personal view of a scene, right? I mean, you can look at pictures, we've all looked at pictures of homicide scenes, but you don't get the full aspect of what the size is, where everything is placed, how the house looks, how is it accessible. And you could see that these prosecutors need to go to the residence. And just like sometimes we try to take juries to the place of a crime scene so they can visually, in person, see what's going on and how things are laid out. Pictures don't always do it justice. So getting them out there, having them firsthand see the whole property, the foyer, the inside of the house, the pool, the fencing, all that would really help the prosecutors in understanding the case and be able to prosecute it correctly.

[Nancy Grace]

And not only that, looking for clues, looking for evidence. Guys, this is from our friends at Fox News. Back to you, Dave Mack. Recall when the Coburger house was torn down, the home there on King Road, where four beautiful University Idaho students were slaughtered, Many legal eagles like myself thought that was a major, major faux pas, a major error in tactics. What if a jury had wanted to visit it or needed to visit, visit it? We also see three dimensional crime scene reconstructions built. They could have been there doing that because once this home is released back to the family. It is of no evidentiary value at all. Even if something were found a week from now, the chain of custody is ruined and it likely will not come into evidence. Remember when the Coburger crime scene was destroyed?

[Dave Mack]

It still amazes me that they did that to the crime scene with Coburger. There have been other cases where crime scenes were kept intact for 10 years. I think of the Jeffrey McDonald case, where that crime scene was exactly as it was for nine years till they had the trial. They took the jury to go and look over the crime scene. In this case, we're talking about this elite FBI unit that comes out using top of the line professional audio and video equipment so that they can go over every part of this inside and out, and they can make measurements. They got digital measurements of everything so they can try to get the height of the suspect, which is what they did. But also, investigators are going to be taking photos and building videos that can be viewed probably 3D so that the trial or jurors in the future will have a look at it. But right now, Nancy, they've still got to find who did this. So it boggles my mind that they would return the home back to the family right now. There's no need to. Nobody else lives there. Nobody in the family lives there. There's no reason to turn the house back over yet.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, those measurements that you mentioned can be so important to. Brian Fitzgibbons, USPA Nationwide Security. I recall a murder case I prosecuted that had been set up to look like a suicide. And when I got to the scene, I nearly did a backflip because there were three guys walking around in the bedroom where the murder occurred, believed to have been a suicide. I'm like, who are you and why are you tromping around in here? Well, lucky for me, they're from the medical examiner's office, and they were taking measurements. One was down on all fours. I remember it was carpeted in the bedroom where she was killed. And they were taking measurements from the casing that, you know, blows out when you take a shot. And they were analyzing the distance from the bed. Now, the theory was the woman committed suicide, but there were no cases. There was no evidence on the bed where she was lying practically in the middle of the bed. They were found on the floor, and they were measuring it. And that helped me prove, along with blood spatter found under her pillow, that she did not commit suicide based on where they were found. So the victim can't speak for themselves. You have to speak for them. And that can include very sophisticated DNA evidence like Tammy Ballard is telling us about, very intricate facts like Mary Coleman is telling us about, and measurements. Measurements that I guarantee you they were taking inside that home. And they better take it before they release that home. I agree with Dave Mack. I don't think they should release that home. Why release it?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah. The length of the hold on this scene, you know, certainly at the beginning of the case when it was originally released, was perplexing. Right. And then when you saw the FBI get involved, it's made a lot more sense. They've had the scene locked down. You've had investigators in and out. And now when we see prosecutors there, that, that tells me a couple of things. First off, that these prosecutors are new sets of eyes and it could indicate that they are preparing an affidavit for arrest. So on the good side is, hey, this could be part of a good process that we don't know about. There's more information there that we don't know about. Or it is that they are indeed preparing to release the scene and that the FBI has done what they've needed to do with it and they want to make sure that those prosecutors get eyes on in person view of that crime scene.

[Nancy Grace]

You're so right, Fitzgibbons. Remember the Parkland school massacre? That school stayed closed for seven years after.

[Mary Coleman]

Crime scene investigation is both an art and a science.

[Nancy Grace]

I have been critical of the sheriff

[Mary Coleman]

in this case from day one. This sheriff is not a trained public information officer. He's not familiar with media relations and he just shouldn't be spouting out and blaming the media for overreacting and so forth.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Hope against hope. As my sister says, we are blowing on the embers of hope. We also know that she may be lost. She may already be gone. She may have already gone home to the Lord that she loves and is dancing in heaven with her mom and her dad and with her beloved brother Pierce and with our daddy. If this is what is to be, then we will accept it. But we need to know where she is. We need her to come home.

[Nancy Grace]

1.2 plus million dollars reward Dr. Bethany Marshall how? How can we break the bond of loyalty amongst the kidnappers or amongst that small orbit of the kidnapper, the girlfriend, the wife, the neighbor, the co conspirator, the friend. How can we break that bond? Will $1.2 million do it? It should.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

It could. Nancy. There's a very specific strategy to the offering of a larger reward as the case progresses you know, Nancy, if you offer a million dollar reward at the beginning, the perp could panic and kill the victim. So you do not want to do that. And also you get all these false leads, you know, flooding in. But offering a 1 or $1.2 million reward right now, the Guthrie family is not appealing to morality at first. Remember, Savannah said, you know, we believe in the goodness of human nature. They're appealing to the intrinsic motivation of turning in the perpetrator. Now they are appealing to the extrinsic motivation, meaning money, Nancy. Money. Big money that could change the rest of a person's life. That reduces loyalty. You know what, Nancy? That much money causes people to think. It's like when Powerball or the lottery starts to go way up. Somebody who might not have bought a lottery ticket before is going to think about stopping into the local 711 and buying a lottery ticket. Somebody who sees a $1.2 million reward is going to start to think, hmm, who do I know that was out in the middle of the night at that night? Or that boyfriend I dated, But I don't really like him so much now. You know what? I like the thought of a 1.2 million reward a lot more. So they're not playing on, you know, people's sympathy anymore. They're playing on greed.

[Nancy Grace]

Much has been made on the cell phone data. The dump that was created by the FBI cellular analysis survey team recall there has already been one detainment, A catch and release of a guy that performed deliveries worked in the area. Neighbors were raided. Their phones very well may have been active around the time that Nancy Guthrie was kidnapped. But it's not just what we are seeing on her street or around her home the night Nancy was kidnapped. It's what we are not seeing. Go with me. It's called a digital blackout. And as I would try to tell the jury things, I found it was easier to explain the law or facts with examples. Remember Kohberger, that cold blooded killer? He thought this one night of all nights to turn off his cell phone when he approached the murder scene on King road, where he robbed four beautiful young Idaho students of their lives and destroyed the lives of their families forever. He turned off his cell phone. Then he thought to turn it back on after the murders when he immediately called his mommy. We also see it in the Suzanne Morphew case. According to prosecutors, not proven yet. Barry Morphew murdered his wife Suzanne, and had turned off his cell phone at very critical moments around the time of her disappearance. A digital blackout. What is it? How do you find it? Straight out to Scott Eicher, a founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team, Norfolk, Virginia homicide, 12 years [e-mail] Scott, here's my question about digital blackouts. Number one, what is a digital blackout? And number two, I'm very curious. Could cast cellular Analysis Survey team pick up on their data dump from multiple towers, a cell phone approaching and then cutting their cell phone off and then cutting it back on? I mean, how does this whole thing work? Okay, start with the definition.

[Scott Eicher]

So a digital blackout is when the suspects basically try to turn off all their electronic devices so their phones cannot be tracked to the crime scene. Well, that might be a good idea for the date and time of the crime if they're that savvy. Most criminals are not. But I've worked numerous cases along with the Co Burger and Brian Murphy cases where they've used, you know, tried to turn off their, their phones or digital devices at the time of the crime, but they're not smart enough to turn it off when they go case the crime, a day, a week, whatever, before the crime. So that's one of the things that the cash unit will be doing, is looking at which phones are, you know, in that area a week before, a month before, maybe some of the dates we've already talked about with the videos and which ones are not there at the time of the crime because they might have turned off their phones. So in those type cases, what the kind of bookends like Coburger, that's something you can show the jury. He's there 10 times in the area of King Road in the middle of the night. But on the night of the crime, he turns off his phone, turns off his WI fi, turns off his Bluetooth when he leaves his house, and then turns it back on on the way back home after killing the four individuals. Sometimes that's just as telling to the jury as the phone being in the area of the.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime. Stories with Nancy Grace. Scott Eicher. I need to understand the mechanics of how Cast identifies a cell phone or a uconnect in a car or a smartwatch or anything connecting to cellular, connecting to WI fi. How do you ISO a vehicle or a cell approaching, let's just say on the main thoroughfare, maybe around the Circle K coming that way. How do you ID and ISO isolate a vehicle coming that way and then note that it turns off as it approaches the turn in to Nancy Guthrie subdivision. And then how do you pick it back up when it's leaving? How did they do that with Kohberger?

[Scott Eicher]

Well, you got to remember, they identified Kohberger through other ways first, and then they got his phone records and be able to kind of look at all that pattern analysis. It wasn't the cellular stuff that brought them to Kohlberger initially. They found him through the DNA on the knife sheath. But once you get that data, you can get all that pattern of life based on that phone records and the person. Now, if you don't have the person identified, it's a lot harder to look at the thousands of phones in there and try to figure out which ones are relevant to the case in the tower.

[Dave Mack]

Dial.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait, put him up.

[Scott Eicher]

Which ones are relevant?

[Nancy Grace]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. It's two o' clock in the morning in an isolated area. There's nobody around except the guys we keep picking up on door cams. Same guy with a backpack. Why are all these guys walking around in the neighborhood at 2am with a backpack and looking sneaky? That said, how many cars are traveling in that area? Not many. Remember, this is an isolated and remote area. It's not in the heart of Tucson. So when you're saying pick out a cell phone with all of this activity, there's not a lot of activity. Come on. How hard can it be? Iker?

[Scott Eicher]

Well, I understand that you might not understand that the cell phone towers, they might be 5, 4, 10 miles away from Nancy Guthrie's house and cover a huge amount of area. Right? So that neighborhood might not have a lot of activity, but you expand out to the coverage area of all the towers, that might give some signal to the area of Nancy Guthrie's house. You might look at 10 different towers, all covering, you know, two or three miles of area itself. When you put all that together, you have hundreds of phones and devices, cell phones, cars, anything that has a cellular connection. That's a lot of data still to go through, even though it's a sparser area than maybe a downtown area like Denver. But you still have a lot of phones in that area and devices.

[Nancy Grace]

And also, Iker, you can isolate it by time, not necessarily the time the perp entered the subdivision. And that's. I'm using that word subdivision in a very loose sense of the word because it's more like a rural area because the homes are far apart. There's so much foliage. But the leaving. The leaving can be identified, not necessarily when the person gets there, because they could have staked out her house for three hours for all I know. But the leaving, you know, they wanted to get out of There like a bat out of hell. This video from our friends at 12 News. So that is something I think you could ISO much easily. Much more easily is when they were leaving. So you've got it narrowed down to like an hour of the time they were leaving. And if there is a blackout, digital blackout, bookended, you've got one of those bookends down to an hour. Again, you're right. I don't know anything about this. To be a good trial lawyer, you have to admit you're not an expert in everything. One thing you're an expert in that's trying a case. But as a layperson, how hard can it be? You've got it narrowed down for an area, one hour in a remote area.

[Scott Eicher]

Well, there's many reasons a phone could move in and out of that area or be turned off or turned on. So it's a lot of analytical work to try to figure out which phones are relevant to the case and which ones are not. Sometimes we can get more specific data on the towers and distance from the towers the phones are. And that does help us kind of indicate, all right, this phone is traveling down this road, but 90% of the time, which can get from the phone records themselves are towers that were used, the sector or side of the tower that was used, and maybe a possible distance from the tower that phone is. So it's a. It's not as precise as we want to think it. Like it is in. You know, the movies are on, CSI on tv. It takes a lot of work.

[Nancy Grace]

Put him up, Iker. You're preaching to the choir. I know that real kidnapping and real felony cases are not like in the movies, but you're absolutely right. And believe me, I am not trying to get three inches up the tailpipe of cellular analysis survey team. Without them, we wouldn't have what we've got right now. See what I mean? I get it. I just don't understand everything. The complexities of the technology that cast is using, and I'm trying to understand it. Back out to Mary Coleman joining us, news Evening anchor, channel 13, K O L D. Everyone knows Kold in that region, but now across the nation, everyone knows Kold because they came forward with ransom notes. So, Mary Coleman, in this last plea from Savannah, our friend Savannah Guthrie. Already nearly 2000 tips have come in. Additional tips, right?

[Mary Coleman]

That's correct. Yeah. They. They haven't stopped. And that was the goal with putting out the $1 million reward, is to have more people coming in and hopefully giving something of substance. Unfortunately, a lot of those tips have not been substantial as we've talked about, but the hope is that even just something small can turn this into bringing Nancy home.

[Nancy Grace]

Mary Coleman, you are so right, Mary. It only takes one, one tip. And believe you me, there is an accomplice. Someone does know what's going on other than the suspect. And I believe that her last plea and this million dollar, now $1.2 million reward is targeted at not just the suspect, not the suspect actually, but his small orbit around him. If there is an accomplice, they may be having second thoughts as we go to air tonight. Mary Coleman, you're absolutely correct. If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free, 1-800- call FBI, 1-800-225-5324 or if you wish to remain anonymous, 520-882-7463. Repeat, 520-882-7463. A 1.42 plus million dollar reward hangs in the balance. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye.