Loading summary
Transcript53 lines
- [00:00]
A
This is an I heart podcast.
- [00:02]
B
Guaranteed human crime stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing, day 27. This as new video footage uncovered of 12 separate vehicles speeding by in Nancy's neighborhood directly onto her street between 12am and 6am the very night Nancy is abducted. Around 2am Shocker. One of those vehicles that many people have identified as a Kia Soul speeds by just eight minutes after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker stops connecting to Bluetooth. What is the significance this as we learn, many experts believe the ransom notes were written by AI and tonight we discover there is a way to trace and track that. Also we learn that the family is getting the home back. Good move or bad move on Nanose's part. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
- [01:27]
C
Big money that could change the rest of a person's life. That reduces loyalty. Somebody who sees a $1.2 million reward is going to start to think, hmm, that boyfriend I dated, but I don't really like him so much now. You know what? I like the thought of a 1.2 million reward a lot more.
- [01:46]
A
We are hoping that the attention that has been given to our mom and our family will extend to all the families like ours who are in need and need prayers and need support. So please, if you hear this message, if you've been waiting and you haven't been sure, let this be your sign to please come forward, tell what you know, and help us bring our beloved mom home so that we can either celebrate a glorious, miraculous homecoming or celebrate the beautiful, brave and courageous and noble life that she has lived. Please be the light in the dark. Thank you.
- [02:34]
B
At this hour, new video footage has been recovered. Let's take a look at what the FBI is looking at along with us. This is a neighbor around two miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. This is from their home cam street facing. Why is this significant? This is from our friends over at Fox News Digital. By the way, look at the vehicles. They're not just vehicles in the neighborhood, they are vehicles. This goes right onto Nancy Guthrie street between 12:30am and 6am who is out driving around at the exact time Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped A few blocks away, One of the vehicles just eight minutes after her pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth. Joining us at all star panel, but first of all, straight out to Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. Dave, tell me about this video.
- [03:40]
D
You know, Nancy, it's shocking when you look at the video, you're seeing this ring camera picking up the car driving on what is considered a back road. It's not a road that is traveled on a regular basis by a lot of people. But those familiar with the area, Nancy would know this is a perfect way out of Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. And as you mentioned, the 2:36am marker is really important because Nancy's pacemaker attached By Bluetooth at 2:28am this is about 7 1/2 minutes later, the exact amount of time it takes to drive from Nancy Guthrie's home to this location on the ring doorbell camera footage we're seeing this. This camera footage was available, Nancy, but it was just outside of the 2 mile circumference that law enforcement put up as their ring around the actual crime scene. It's two and a half miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. But again, it is an area that leads away from her neighborhood and it perfectly catches these cars. We mentioned a minute ago between midnight and 6am that day, 12 cars traveled down that road. This one at 2:36am Guys, this is
- [05:04]
B
from our friends at FOX News. Let me go straight out to see special guest joining us along with Brian Fitzgibbons, Eric Drickerson is with us. Former FBI special agent, 20 years who has specialized in international kidnapping, supervised the FBI Mexico U.S. border Liaison Program. Man, I bet you got some stories to tell international crimes investigator. Many times in your cases you have used surveillance video like this and this was a near miss. It was just outside that two mile radius where the FBI and local sheriffs were looking. What do you make of this Eric?
- [05:45]
E
Yeah, Nancy, this falls in line with their normal investigative procedure. What they're going to be doing. Obviously they're focusing on the evidence collected at the scene of the crime. But as they work further and further away from that epicenter, the they're going to look at cameras. The next logical step would be to follow points of entry and exit to the community. They're going to be looking at what we call choke points or where vehicles have a tendency or a natural tendency to flow. And they're going to be trying to put together additional pieces. When I look at this video, the unfortunate side is obviously the resolution doesn't provide us details like license plate numbers provide insight. It does provide enough detail for them to follow up on additional leads. And Nancy, this could be something that is significant in the case. I talked about this before. As they open that that circumference center of the crime, they're going to reveal additional information. Now I would like to say whether or not this vehicle was involved in the actual crime itself. It is of significant relevance because it was in the area when the crime occurred. So whether it is directly related to the criminal activity or to the abduction or whether or not they are a valuable piece of evidence in being a witness, it's still a very, very relevant breaking evidence and news.
- [07:20]
B
I agree. I agree. Guys, this is Eric Dickerson, former FBI special agent, 20 years specializing in international kidnappings, the U.S. mexico border. That video from our friends at Fox. Now to Brian Fitzgibbons. You know him well. He is director of operations, USPA Nationwide security. He leads a team of investigators specializing in missing people around the world trying to recover and extract them. Former Marine, Iraqi war vet. Brian, you and I have dealt with a lot of cases that were cracked. Because of a car. Because of a car. Okay, just off the top of my head, these are two great examples I like to use. Of course, the devil himself. Brian Kohberger. You know the campus police at wsu, Washington State University in Pullman, Washington, found his car first. Why? Because a clerk at a gas station, quick stop and there is the King Road address where Brian Kohberger did the worst crimes imaginable. This clerk at, let's just say a quick, quick trip. It's not a quick trip. I've been there, but I don't recall the name of the gas station. Took it upon herself to start combing through video all on her own. And she sees the white Elantra go by at like 4:30 in the morning, some crazy time and hands it over to police. They get white Elantra. They then put that out to all surrounding points and Washington State University. There's a guy campus security starts going through. Well, who's registered with White Elantra? Brian Kohberger. They go to his apartment, they see the Elantra, get the tag number and all that. And that's how the whole thing starts with the white Elantra. Example, one Molly Tibbets, gorgeous young co ed. Been studying for her classes. Goes out for a jog daylight hours. Let's not attack the victim. Goes out for a jog. The last time she's seen, she's having an altercation with a guy and easing by back and forth. He was identified as the perp that killed her because of unusual markings on that vehicle caught on home surveillance. I can name them and name them and name them. Cars point Fitzgibbons. Isn't it true in major metropolitan areas there are whole teams like you got homicide, you got robbery, you got sex crimes, crimes on children, there's a whole team that works on stolen cars. They identify types, makes, and models just like that. Because every year, car manufacturers subtly change the car to appeal to those people that want to buy a new car. Every year, who they are, I don't know. They can look at a car and give you the make and model the year, just like that. So already our online sleuths have identified one of the vehicles as a Kia Soul. What do you make of the car? Information. Let's take a look at the video some more.
- [10:43]
F
Yeah, you're spot on here, Nancy. And you know, one thing I'll add to this very quickly. Online sluice identified that this is a Kia Soul. And I want to add something. Eric did a great job describing how they're expanding that radius with collecting video. Sources have reported that law enforcement has collected nearly 10,000 hours of surveillance video related to this case. So what does that say to us? This one happened, this video happened to come to Fox News.
- [11:18]
D
Okay.
- [11:19]
F
There are tens of thousands of hours that has not come to Fox News. And that law enforcement is going through the process of triaging based on the time, the location of those cameras, the time of the recording, and they're, they're starting to process that all now. So I think that this, this case is far from cold. A lot of leads are being investigated from this video.
- [11:44]
B
We don't say the C word. I don't want to hear cold.
- [11:48]
F
Yeah, okay. No, I agree.
- [11:51]
B
And I'll tell you why. Uh, because a lot has been made of the fact that. Hey, Dave Mack, isn't this true? I'm going to circle back to the video, but I want to clear up a point. Dave Mack, crime stories, investigative reporter with us. The FBI is taking a lot of its men and women from Tucson, and they're relocating to Phoenix, which is their largest branch, their largest office in Arizona. And I was thinking about it last night. Dave Mack, Actually, I may have been talking to you about it. Yeah, I could come up with legal theories if I was sitting out in the woods in a forest, in a tent. But I could do a lot better if I've got my laptop, if I got my iPad, I've got all my, my stuff that I use when I am researching. I can look up the law, I can look up the facts. The fact that they are relocating from Tucson and taking a large number of boots on the ground to Tucson does not mean this case is cold. Dave Mack, what do you know about them relocating a lot of the force
- [12:59]
D
to Phoenix when the FBI Investigators are working in Tucson. They're working out of like a satellite office. But by taking them back to the main office in Phoenix where they have access to all of everything, including all of the experts sitting next to one another. You mentioned like sitting in a tent, coming up with legal theories. Well, now put that tent inside of an office. With thousands of hours of experience on this case alone, now you can get some movement forward. So no, this moving from Tucson to Phoenix with a large number of age of the investigation, it really is a way to put all of their eggs in a basket that can actually really investigate because they've already done boots on the ground, Nancy. And they'll have other research events take place as needed. But they've all seen the locations. Now they've got to dig in to the actual data and break it all down.
- [13:53]
B
So, right.
- [13:54]
D
Phoenix is stepping it up.
- [13:56]
B
I mean, Eric Jickerson, you've handled so many investigations as has Fitzgibbons. They've turned the house upside down. They've had federal prosecutors out there to go over it. We were watching them yesterday. Let's see that footage of them going through step by step, all the way through the home, all the way through the outside. There they are. We got this aerial view from our friends at Fox. Look at this. They are going past the pool. I noticed, Eric, that they took a long time and took. One guy took photos at the wrought iron gate as he was leaving the pool area. They're coming along a side alley, side walkway to get to the pool that's completely obscured by foliage. See the guy taking out, taking a picture of something right there and he takes it and off they go. They've done it all. Now I don't like the idea which I'm going to discuss about them releasing the scene. I don't see what's the hurry in that because in the Alex Murdaugh trial, I know you remember him, double killer, high profile lawyer out of South Carolina. They did not release the scene and guess what? The jury got their guilty verdict after visiting the crime scene. So I don't believe in releasing the scene before the jury trial. But that's just me that said everybody on the ground has done all they can do. Now it's a matter of assimilating the all of this evidence. You're hearing Dave Mack talk about the thousands and thousands of videos that was Fitzgibbons, the thousands of video surveillance that they've yet to go through.
- [15:41]
E
Yeah, Nancy, the FBI and local authorities have what's called evidence Response teams or ert. They specialize in going through, meticulously going through every piece of possible evidence, including collecting any, any DNA or any physical evidence or any fingerprints, any type of evidence from the scene of the crime. And when they feel they've exhausted all collection, the normal course of events is then they release that crime scene back to the, the owner of the property or the family. This is normal protocol. Of course, there is the possibility that something may, may be discovered at a later date, but I'm sure they feel comfortable in the fact that they have meticulously combed through everything that's available to them.
- [16:37]
B
And Brian Fitz Gibbons joining us from USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, I was telling Hannity last night, who was kind enough to invite me on, I cannot even remember count all the nights I would be sitting in the floor at the office, sitting beside the Xerox machine. Everybody else had gone home at the district attorney's office surrounded by stacks of paper. Each one was a pile like witness statements, legal arguments, DNA reports, you name it, thinking, oh my stars, they're so much paper. I just want to get in the courtroom and try the case. But you have to cross your T's and dot your I's. So I remember those nights. And part of putting a case together is what the FBI is going to do now. Now, back in their main field division in Phoenix, have you ever had to plow through thousands of doc and oh, when I was a fed, we would have a room full of boxes of documents, a whole room of boxes stacked up. So it's part of the job. You have to do it.
- [17:56]
F
Yeah, absolutely. And as a private investigator, you know, we don't have nearly the support that the FBI has, right. The personnel, the expertise, the number of reps that they get at processing this amount of video. These are the experts that are going to be able to do that. And I want to add one thing, that walkthrough with federal prosecutors is key here because a lot of the, of this evidence research and collection that's going to happen and analysis is going to be guided by those prosecutors as they build this up.
- [18:31]
B
I want to go back to the car video guys. Now. A lot is being made online. It's helpful. It's not helpful. It's a dead end. It's a lead. You can't listen to anything you're hearing or reading in the media. Media on the outside, law enforcement on the inside. But I am telling you that every bit of video is being reviewed by the feds. Guys, this video is provided to us from our friends At Fox News, Brian Fitzgibbon speaking of the video and whether it's real or not real and sources say it is and sources say it's not, what about the speed? He's the driver is flying by and it makes me remember how fast Brian Kohberger he was like a bat out of h E double L flying, flapping as fast as he can to get out. Wings on fire. Okay, Coburger flying out of there. And the particular car that goes by right after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth is flying Brian fitzgibbons.
- [19:48]
F
Yeah, it looks like that vehicle's moving at a pretty high rate of speed. And as we've seen in this case, these roads are very dark residential areas. So that could be an anomaly to be driving that at that high rate of speed at that time of night.
- [20:05]
A
All of the information about this reward and the details is in the caption below. You can call the 1-800-TIP-RINEL. You can be anonymous if you want. Someone out there knows something that can bring her home. Somebody knows. We are begging you to please come forward now. We also know that we are not alone in our loss. We know there are millions of families that have suffered with this kind of uncertainty. And for that reason today we also are donating $500,000 to the national center for missing and exploited children for their work in helping families who are coping with loss and actively looking for those who are lost.
- [21:12]
B
Crime stories with nancy grace. Video from Nancy Guthrie's home has shown a masked suspect on her front porch the night she goes missing. But now has a distinguishing mark been found on the backpack? The FBI, working with Pima county sheriffs released the doorbell video to generate leads. Look carefully on the perps. Left strap. An individual has spotted and now publicized a black star on the jacket. Take a look. Let's see it. Isoed very quickly. A star shaped pattern in black. Look at this. It was shared widely on Twitter X. What, if anything does it mean? It could mean nothing or it could mean a break in the case. This post from Trillonx straight out to Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. Dave, what can you tell me about the star? Because we have gone back and reviewed the original video released by Cash Patel released by law enforcement and you can see that in the. Look, there it is. Now when it's highlighted and put on X you can see much better and you see red stitching but you can see that. What do you know, Dave?
- [22:52]
D
Nancy, you know this has just come up in the last hours and a lot of people are trying to search for that particular star and where it is located on other backpacks. And, Nancy, you know, we've even gone back and forth here about, well, do you see it? Do you not? It's a catch 22. I don't. I don't know what is actually on the strap versus the jacket. And trying to locate it. You can't see anything there. But right there, you can see it on his left strap, what appears to be a star.
- [23:25]
B
Guys, if you look at different angles, sometimes you can see it, sometimes you cannot see it. Is it real? In any event, Eric Dickerson, this is a type of detail that has to be chased down by the feds, Right? Every detail could matter.
- [23:42]
E
Yeah. And, Nancy, it's a relevant detail because it serves two purposes, really. Number one, the uniqueness of that star could help determine where that article of clothing or that backpack came from. That's an important detail. And the second point is it can help in asking for public assistance. This is somewhat unique, and it can help some witness or somebody who's willing to cooperate identify that clothing associated with a person. So either way, I think it's relevant whether it's a star, whether it's something else. Just the fact that it's somewhat unique to that article of clothing.
- [24:27]
B
What about it, Brian Fitzgibbons? What, if anything, can you do with that? Distinctive features can identify a perp. Okay, here's a good example. I tried a drug lord. I tried a lot of drug lords, and one of them was seen the night of the incident. It was a murder, by the way. And he brazenly was wearing a red leather ensemble. Jacket, pants, the works. And guess what he was wearing. And he was cited again. Red leather ensemble. I mean, how many of those are walking around is very, very easily identifiable? So same thing. A detail like that can go a long way. Jump in.
- [25:18]
F
Absolutely. And, you know, it's going to help investigators identify, you know, was this a. A piece of clothing that was produced with that star on it? You know, that's the brand's logo or whatever. Or was this an aftermarket thing? You know, what. Are there embroidery shops in Tucson that have put on 50 of these for a small business or a school or something related to it. So, you know, this will be very identifiable if that is indeed an embroidered star on that jacket.
- [25:51]
B
Guys, we're trying to make sense of all of the evidence that is bubbling up as we go to air. New evidence about a star beside the backpack. Vehicles speeding by in Nancy's neighborhood at the same time. Her pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth Sometimes all the evidence can be overwhelming, Eric Drickerson. And that is why I had to quote, marshal the evidence. Marshal the evidence. In other words, think of 1000 men and women in the infantry. If they're just milling around, they're ineffective. You have to get them in lines, assign them tasks. You have to marshal them to have any effect. That's what is meant by marshaling your evidence. So right now, think about it, Eric. The FBI is going to decamp from Tucson. They're going to recap in Phoenix, and they have all of this video to go through, 10,000 plus hours of surveillance. They have all of the Walmart to go through. That's online orders and wow and purchases at local Walmarts and beyond. They have all of the tips to go through. Now, over 40,000 tips since Savannah gave her last plea, which we showed earlier. Nearly 2,000 tips have already come in since then, which I believe may be even more serious tips because there's a million dollars plus on the line. This is a herculean task. I mean, how does the FBI go about doing it?
- [27:49]
E
Yeah, Nancy, there's a lot associated with this. So it cuts both ways. Going public and asking for public assistance and increasing this reward to now over $1,200,000 can bring substantial new evidence into the fold, into helping identify and helping discover new evidence. But it also creates issues where you're getting a lot of reporting, much of which is not associated with this kind, much of which may be people trying to capitalize on this tragedy to make money. So this is going to be a monumental task, as you said, for the FBI and local law enforcement to comb through all of this reporting and all of this evidence. Key things you're going to be looking for though, is anything unique that people that provide this evidence may know about the victim. So whether that's proof of life information, whether it's unique information of the way she was dressed or articles that she may have had on her person, all of that is going to come into play so they can start to weed through this evidence and figure out what's relevant for the case and what is it. But I recall back when we, when, when, when 9, 11 happened and we had tens of thousands, not millions of people reporting suspicious activity and the monumental task of going through and finding what's relevant to the crime and what isn't, that's going to be a big challenge for authorities.
- [29:34]
B
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Also tonight, a creepy stranger drives past Nancy Guthrie's home last night around 100 times while staring at a photo of Mrs. Guthrie on his phone. Straight out to Dave Mack. Dave Mack, who is this guy?
- [30:03]
D
Nancy?
- [30:04]
G
Late yesterday afternoon into the early evening hours, a man was driving his vehicle on Nancy Guthrie street right in front of her house. And he's driving by really slow while he's looking at a picture of Nancy Guthrie on his phone. Now, we're not talking three or four times driving up and down the street. We're talking about the guy doing it for a long time, 50 to 100 times, driving in front of her house all the while, and I mean, going really, really slow. He's creeping along, looking at a picture of Nancy Guthrie on his phone. So finally police, you know, decide it's time to take a look at this guy and they pull him over. And police arrest 34 year old Antonio de Jesus Pena Campos in front of Nancy Guthrie's home on misdemeanor DUI charges.
- [30:55]
A
Hope against hope. As my sister says, we are blowing on the embers of hope. We also know that she may be lost. She may already be gone. She may have already gone home to the Lord that she loves and is dancing in heaven with her mom and her dad and with her beloved brother Pierce and with our daddy. If this is what is to be, then we will accept it.
- [31:35]
B
I agree with Dave Mack. I don't think they should release that home. Why release it?
- [31:40]
F
These prosecutors are new sets of eyes. This could be part of a good process that we don't know about.
- [31:47]
A
If this is what is to be, then we will accept it.
- [31:53]
B
A group of mothers now searching for Nancy Guthrie. Their search extends to Mexico. We understand the FBI has contacted Mexican authorities. Are they doing anything to help find Nancy Guthrie? What's the likelihood she was taken to Mexico? And none other better to discuss that than Eric Dickerson joining us and Brian Fitzgibbons. Drickerson to you, former FBI special agent, 20 years, specializing in international kidnappings, who supervised the FBI and the Mexican U.S. border. What do you think about that?
- [32:32]
E
I reached out to my sources at the attorney General's office in the state of Sonora, Mexico, which borders Arizona. And they confirmed with me that the FBI has in fact approached them and asked for their assistance. They also stated that based on their initial investigations, they had no indications or no evidence that Nancy Guthrie entered Mexico or crossed the US Mexico border. It's also relevant to understand that this case, Mexico, we coordinate with Mexico, the US Law enforcement and US and the FBI coordinates with Mexico on a regular basis at the border. They in fact they have a team called the border liaison team that this is what they do as normal, as a part of their normal protocol. When we have a crime of this nature that occurs so close to the border. Now, while this is a kidnapping that occurred in the United States, in Mexico, they would have to investigate this simply as a missing person case. So they would use resources, and they have ample experience and resources in working kidnapping cases. I imagine that they've queried some of their cross border cameras, some of their law enforcement. They've done what we call a welfare whereabouts check, where they would check hospitals and morgues and things of that nature to ensure that what they're providing is accurate to this case.
- [34:06]
B
Hey, Eric, I'm trying to keep up with you, but I'm like drinking from the fire hydrant too much, too fast. In order, what would they be doing to try to find Nancy Guthrie in order in Mexico?
- [34:21]
E
Well, first thing they would do is they would contact Mexican authorities to request their assistance. What that would look like is they would. They would contact their liaison officials across the border and ask them to do several checks, including border crossings, maybe some welfare whereabouts checks, which might include checking hospitals, checking the morgue, checking other resources that they have at their disposal.
- [34:49]
B
What do you mean by other resources? Hospitals, morgues. What else?
- [34:55]
E
Possibly jails. There's a normal protocol that they use, which usually involves jails, hospitals, and the morgue, to check and see if there's any evidence at those locations that she would be. Would be present at one of those locations. Secondly, they would also request that Mexican authorities participate in the investigation, and that is start to maintain some type of be on the lookout and protocols that may activate some of their resources, like cameras or some of their source intelligence that could identify whether or not she crossed the border. But they did confirm, Mexican authorities did confirm that she is not present in Mexico, or there was no evidence that she crossed the border into Mexico.
- [35:52]
B
When you say you look for source intelligence, what does that mean?
- [35:57]
E
Snitches, Basically, yeah. Human intelligence. In other words, people that would be reporting having seen her.
- [36:04]
B
So I'm trying to figure out the most likely crossing. If you're coming from Nancy Guthrie's home, would be where?
- [36:14]
E
Well, it would be one of the ports of entry. What's the closest one in proximity? I believe it's Nogales. Nogales, Mexico. And the FBI actually has. We have presence in Mexico. So we do have an agent stationed in. I say we. The FBI has an agent stationed in the state of Sonora. So through that agent and through these Border liaison supervisors. They are coordinating with Mexican officials to follow up on this case.
- [36:47]
B
It kind of feels like a needle in a haystack. To Brian Fitzgibbons, USPA Nationwide Security, who has done extractions from Mexico. You've got this group of moms saying they felt they had to, quote, step in to look for Nancy because local authorities are doing nothing to find her there.
- [37:11]
F
Yeah, I think while that's honorable, as I've mentioned before, I think anything that happens in Mexico, the first and primary actor is going to be the US Federal government. Their sources, their diplomatic ties to Mexican authorities, and as Eric mentioned, their source intelligence network is going to be the primary mover there. This is a noble effort by this group of moms and certainly shouldn't be discounted. But the primary force, if Mrs. Guthrie is in Mexico, will be the US federal government.
- [37:50]
B
If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free. 800-225-532-4800. Call FBI or if you wish to remain anonymous. 5208-8274-6352-0882, 7463. There is a 1.2 plus million dollar reward, about a million and a quarter dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. It does not require an arrest or conviction of the perpetrator. We remember an American hero, Trooper Joel Popp, Michigan State Police, killed in the line of duty after four years on the force, leaving behind a wife, now widow, and a daughter sentenced to life without her father. American hero, Trooper Joel Popp. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.