Nancy Grace (3:09)

crime stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother Nancy Guthrie Missing Day 30 Is this possible? Was the case bungled at the get go and can it be recovered? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Look at the per 5 foot 9

Dave Mack (3:47)

to 5 foot 10 video is always the best evidence.

Nancy Grace (3:51)

Is there an accomplice?

Brian Fitzgibbons (3:53)

Something protruding that resembles a phone? The vehicle is the linchpin to cracking a case wide open.

Nancy Grace (4:01)

How the heck has this guy managed to outsmart the feds?

Brian Fitzgibbons (4:07)

This case is full of hypothesis, theories, mystery guy in a video when in the end it comes down to an 84 year old woman who's not with her family.

Nancy Grace (4:19)

Straight out to Crime Stories, investigative reporter Dave Mack. Day 30 what's the latest?

Dave Mack (4:25)

We are now at that one month part of the investigation of the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie and it's shocking that as we are moving, this week is like a whole new investigation. There's been a lot of movement in the last couple of days. Specifically homicide detectives are now added to the case. Also the photos, the video from the ring doorbell camera that we had last week of cars at 2:30 in the morning about two and a half miles from Nancy Guthrie's house. Well now where the FBI at first said well there's not much to it, it's not part of the investigation. Well now everybody is flipping and saying yes, this could be the break in the case. We've got a camera showing a car driving towards the house at 2:30 and leaving back the same way 237 or 238. Brian Fitzgibbons as we look at the cars two and a half miles from the house going back and forth as we look at the right wrist of the suspect on the front porch. Is that a tattoo? We also spent a lot of time talking about a possible walkie talkie communication device in the front pocket. But now taking a closer look, it appears to be an antenna sticking out of the perps pocket. Talk to us about what we're looking at or what we're possibly seeing. Is that an antenna and what would it be?

Brian Fitzgibbons (5:51)

Yeah, absolutely Dave. So speculation has gone really in two directions with this antenna. One that it's a walkie talkie that the perpetrator was using to communicate with a driver so as to not leave behind any cell phone data or signals. And the second piece, direction this speculation is going is that it could very well be a signal jammer. Now what is that signal jammer? This is a thirty to forty dollar device that can easily be obtained on illegal online markets. And that signal jammer will broadcast a radio frequency that will effectively overwhelm any devices connected to WI fi within a 25 to 50 meter range. Now what is that? How would that be used here? You know we, we see in many home invasion burglary cases these types of signal jammers being used. And what it's going to do is effectively disconnect those security cameras, in this case the Nest camera, from sending any push notifications, emergency alerts in that short window of time while you're close to the device.

Nancy Grace (7:07)

New video footage uncovered of 12 separate vehicles speeding by in Nancy's neighborhood directly onto her street between 12am and 6am the very night Nancy is abducted. Around 2am Shocker. One of those vehicles that many people have identified as a Kia Soul speeds by just eight minutes after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker stops connecting to Bluetooth. What is the significance? Let's see a look at what the FBI is looking at along with us. This is a neighbor around two miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. This is from their home cam street facing. Why is this significant? This is from our friends over at Fox News Digital. By the way, look at the vehicles. They're not just vehicles in the neighborhood, they are vehicles. This goes right onto Nancy Guthrie street between 12:30am and 6am who is out driving around at the exact time Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped a few blocks away. One of the vehicles, just eight minutes after her pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth, joining us an all star panel. But first of all, straight out to Dave Mack, crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, tell me about this video.

Dave Mack (8:51)

You know, Nancy, it's shocking when you look at the video. You're seeing this ring camera picking up the car driving on what is considered a back road. It's not a road that is traveled on a regular basis by a lot of people. But those familiar with the area, Nancy, would know this is a perfect way out of Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. And as you mentioned, the 2:36am marker is really important because Nancy's pacemaker attached By Bluetooth at 2:28am this is about 7 1/2 minutes later, the exact amount of time it takes to drive from Nancy Guthrie's home to this location on the ring doorbell camera footage we're seeing this. This camera footage was available, Nancy, but it was just outside of the 2 mile circumference that law enforcement put up as their ring around the actual crime scene. It's two and a half miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. But again, it is an area that leads away from her neighborhood and it perfectly catches these cars. We mentioned a minute ago between midnight and 6am that day, 12 cars traveled down that road. This one at 2:36am Guys, this is

Nancy Grace (10:15)

our friends at FOX News. Let me go straight out to special guest joining us. Eric Drickerson is with us, former FBI special agent, 20 years, who has specialized in international kidnapping. Many times in your cases you have used surveillance video like this and this was a near miss. It was just outside that two mile radius where the FBI and local sheriffs were looking. What do you make of this? Eric?

Eric Drickerson (10:44)

Yeah, Nancy, this falls in line with their normal investigative procedure. What they're going to be doing, obviously they're focusing on the evidence collected at the scene of the crime. But as they work further and further away from that epicenter, they're going to look at cameras. The next logical step would be to follow points of entry and exit to the community. They're going to be looking at what we call choke points or where vehicles have a tendency or a natural tendency to flow. And they're going to be trying to put together additional pieces. When I look at this video, the unfortunate side is obviously the resolution doesn't provide us details like license plate numbers provide insight. It does provide enough detail for them to follow up on additional leads. And Nancy, this could be something that is significant in the case. I talked about this before. As they open that circumference center of the crime, they're going to reveal additional information. Now I would like to say whether or not this vehicle was involved in the actual crime itself. It is of significant relevance because it was in the area when the crime occurred. So whether it is directly related to the criminal activity or to the abduction, or whether or not they are a valuable piece of evidence in being a witness, it's still a very, very relevant breaking evidence in news.

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Nancy Grace (15:53)

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now to Brian Fitzgibbons. You know him well. He is Director of Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, you and I have dealt with a lot of cases that were cracked because of a car. Already our online sleuths have identified one of the vehicles as a Kia Soul. What do you make of the car information?

Brian Fitzgibbons (16:23)

Yeah, you're spot on here Nancy. And very quickly online Sleuths identified that this is a key of Soul. And I want to add something. Eric did a great job describing how they're expanding that radius with collecting video. Sources have reported that law enforcement has collected nearly 10,000 hours of surveillance video related to this case. So what does that say to us? This one happened, this video happened to come to Fox News. Okay, There are tens of thousands of hours that has not come to Fox News and that law enforcement is going through the process of triaging based on the time, the location of those Cameras, the time of the recording and they're starting to process that all now.

Nancy Grace (17:14)

A lot is being made online. It's helpful. It's not helpful. It's a dead end. It's a lead. You can't listen to anything you're hearing or reading in the media. Media on the outside, law enforcement on the inside. But I am telling you that every bit of video is being reviewed by the feds. Guys. This video is provided to us from our friends at FOX News, Brian Fitzgibbons. Speaking of the video and whether it's real or not real, and sources say it is, and sources say it's not, what about the speed? He's the driver is flying by and it makes me remember how fast Brian Kohberger he was like a bat out of he double L flying, flapping as fast as he can to get out, wings on fire. Okay, Coburger flying out of there. And the particular car that goes by right after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth is flying Brian fitzgibbons.

Brian Fitzgibbons (18:26)

Yeah, it looks like that vehicle's moving at a pretty high rate of speed. And as we've seen in this case, these roads are very dark residential areas. So that could be an anomaly to be driving that at that high rate of speed at that time of night.

Nancy Grace (18:43)

Joining us now, Heather Barnhart, digital forensics expert with Cellebrite. You heard all about that in the Alex Murdoch trial, cracked the case wide open. And the SANS Institute system admin, audit network and security, she worked on the Bryan Kohberger case. She is the co author of Practical Mobile Forensics now in its fourth edition. Wow. Heather, thank you for being with us. Heather, I want to circle back to the video that has just surfaced about the video of the vehicles flying by at the same time Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped in her neighborhood. What do you make of that video?

Weatherbug Announcer (19:25)

Forensic experts will be able to slow down those vehicles to the point of us being able to identify make and model. They should also be able to detect speeds. So if you think you're involved in a crime, you're probably driving pretty quickly. And this is exactly what happened with Brian Kohberger. He tore out of that neighborhood in that vehicle. That car was the second most important identifier to the DNA to getting access to Bryan Kohberger and leading to an arrest. So this could be what investigators need all along to identify who is involved in this crime.

Nancy Grace (20:01)

So Heather, what about the fact that to the naked eye, to us, the video looks blurry?

Weatherbug Announcer (20:08)

Oh my goodness. In my terrorism investigations, we were able to identify things that you can enhance this footage. Think about what AI can do for us in forensics. This is a perfect example of using AI to clean up an image, remove the blur, slow it down, and have vehicle experts say, I know that this is likely, this make and model, probably of this year. And then you go into the records and see who in that area owns vehicles that match that description. And it will really pare down the amount of people that need to be questioned at this time.

Nancy Grace (20:46)

Todd Shipley. Joining us, digital cybercrime expert, former detective sergeant Reno PD Todd Shipley. Thank you for being with us. How will the feds go about enhancing this video?

Lee Newbecker (20:59)

Well, they're going to take the screenshots out of it and try to figure out what they can find from that one particular shot and identify if there's anything that's usable in that shot. It's pretty quick shot that's moving, so it's not something that's going to be an easy thing to do. But they're going to take that video and the stills and try to enhance whatever they can to find anything. Descriptions, bumper stickers, the license plate, Obviously, if they can figure any of that out, the year, make and model, obviously is important because then they can start tracking down who owns those in the state and try to figure out, you know, what potential list of suspects they might have who own that kind of car and then start contacting each one.

Nancy Grace (21:42)

Guys, this video from our friends at Fox News.

Weatherbug Announcer (21:45)

Someone out there knows something that can bring her home. Somebody knows.

Nancy Grace (21:52)

We are begging you to please come forward now. We have been given video from Nancy Guthrie's front porch. Look at the perp. He's ready. He's got his hands covered in gloves. Looked to be latex. Not the thin surgical gloves, thicker latex. He's wearing a backpack. Hey, jump on that. What kind of backpack? Sold where when leaning over. What is he doing? You're about to find out, genius. Pulled some foliage and he's going to try and cover up the camera with it. He's still trying to get it loose. He's still trying to. Trying to crack it loose. Leaving no fingerprints. Even his wrists are covered up. Keep going. Keep going. There you go with the foliage. He's trying to cover up the door cam. Watch. Look at this. He came prepared. Full on ski mask, wrists covered, face covered, hands covered, trying to cover the nest. Camera, the door cam. Keep looking. This could be the break we've all been waiting for. Here he comes walking up and. Is that a gun? He's got tucked into his waistband. Do you see how he's holding his face down? Holding the face down so he won't be identified. Check out the backpack reflectors on the shoulders. Come on. Can't we track that? Can we zoom in and get the shoes? We can get his height. We can get so much information. Now let's see the stills of his face. Bring it in. Bring it in. Let's see the stills. Okay, you know what? She may have had a heart attack. She wakes up and sees that. That looks like a white guy to me. A white guy right there. You can't see it. It almost looks feminine. But apparently in some of the pictures you see facial hair over the lip. Keep looking, keep looking. Is that facial hair over the lip? It looks like brunette facial hair. Can't tell exactly. Keep the picture up there. Dave Mack, does that look like facial hair over the lip?

Dave Mack (24:33)

It looks like a mustache to me, Nancy. It absolutely does. Looks like chin hair as well, Nancy.

Nancy Grace (24:38)

Okay, from that we are learning so much. Again, it almost looks feminine except for what we think could be facial hair. Joining us, an all star panel. This as we are also learning that buccal or buccal swabs are being taken from the inner circle surrounding Nancy Guthrie. The pool guy, the gardener, the granny nannies, the. You name it. And if they're getting buccal swabs from them, I'm sure they've already gotten them from the family. Now, somebody please tell me we strapped everybody up to a polygraph. And again, I want to show it again. The guy walking up, the guy, the person, the perp walk up. See, he's even got his neck covered, thinking we won't be able to identify what color he is. This is not just a robbery, just a burglary. We've been going round and round, some people chasing their tails. Is this really a kidnap? I can tell you right now, nobody goes through all this to run in and grab your vcr. What has he got in the backpack? It is chock full. What's in there? It's stuffed. So much. You can see when he turns around. He's not going in there to take anything. He's taking things in with him. Okay, keep showing it. Let's go to the experts. Straight out to Lee Newbecker joining us out of Chicago. Cybersecurity, digital forensics expert CEO of Enigma Forensics. What about it, Lee? What do you see?

Lee Newbecker (26:26)

Well, it's interesting because he hunches down as he goes through the walkway. Had he not hunched down you could go on site, measure the bricks and get his hobby. I did a little bit of looking and making some assumptions and I think the guy's probably between 5, 11 and 6 foot 2. But you can also see his shoe size as he steps on those bricks like right now. And also the first step.

Nancy Grace (26:52)

Hold it right there. Right there. Yes, you're right.

Dave Mack (26:56)

Stop.

Lee Newbecker (26:57)

Yeah, there you could, you could back up and if you knew the exact size of that brick, you could probably tell what his shoe size is. He looks like it appears to be a male based on my review of it. But knowing that his approximate height, his approximate weight and if his hair color truly is black, which it appears to be from the one show, but it could be brown, it's definitely something to call. I thought your comments about having the family members take a polygraph was a good idea. But maybe matching up the height of the people to see if they match up at least to shoe size. The shoe size, which doesn't appear to

Nancy Grace (27:40)

be larger than size 4, is a man. There's no doubt about it being a man. It's a feminine with feminine attributes. But a statistically this is a man and it's a freaky white man. Statistically, that's exactly what it is. Look at what he's doing. Dave Mack, what is he doing right there? Trying to dislodge the door.

Dave Mack (28:03)

Cam, he's looking for something. And we've seen him reaching down to get the, the, some type of shrubbery. But Nancy, look, look at his hands, those gloves. It looks like he's wearing two pairs of gloves. Those things are stretched and that hand.

Nancy Grace (28:18)

Yes, it does.

Dave Mack (28:19)

Thicker than it would be for a person of his size. And so I'm thinking that over glove, he's got another glove underneath, which kind of goes back to that backpack. Why in the world would anybody come to an event like this with a backpack so filled that I mean, what else does he need? They're talking. You're talking about 84 year old woman who can't walk very far. Why would you need to have your backpack all filled with stuff?

Nancy Grace (28:46)

You're right, it does look like his clothes. His hands, his legs are stuffed. What about it, Neubecker?

Lee Newbecker (28:53)

There's several things to notice here. The center of his pupils, he's centered up, looking directly at the nest. Cam, he's got what appears to be a bite of light in his mouth. You'll see when he's bending over. He turns on the flashlight to find the grass that he grabs. But notice the shadow underneath his Chin also, as he puts his hand forth, notice the glove. You can see there's a bright light source coming from the front towards the camera. And as this progresses, you'll see when he's got the camera blocked, you can see that there's a light emitting from the camera. The fact that there's a shadow under his chin tells you that the camera's slightly higher than where his eyes are. That causes the shadow to cast.

Nancy Grace (29:34)

Does anyone detect a beard?

Scott Eichor (29:36)

I think he has chin here, Nancy. He's in that one photograph. You can see that he appears right there. You see the dark, what appears to be a darker shade there underneath his lip line. That could be indicative of facial hair. And then of course, the mustache, potentially above that. One other thing I think we're learning here is this gentleman is very, very comfortable doing what he's doing here.

Nancy Grace (30:08)

The Guthrie family has been notified about these images that have been shared with the FBI, we are told. But according to the family and law enforcement, so far no one recognizes who the person could be because there was no recognition. No one could identify this guy right here. The FBI posted the images and the videos on a public post in the hope and the prayer. Someone could recognize the perp or even the clothing, which absolutely could lead to a break in the case. Look carefully on the perp's left strap. An individual has spotted and now publicized a black star on the jacket. Take a look. Let's see it isoed very quickly. A star shaped pattern in black. Look at this. It was shared widely on Twitter X What, if anything, does it mean? It could mean nothing or it could mean a break in the case. This post from Trillonx straight out to Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. Dave, what can you tell me about the star? Because we have gone back and reviewed the original video released by Kash Patel, released by law enforcement. And you can see that in the. Look, there it is now. When it's highlighted and put on X, you can see much better. And you see red stitching, but you can see that. What do you know, Dave?

Dave Mack (32:04)

Nancy, you know, this has just come up in the last hours and a lot of people are trying to search for that particular star and where it is located on other backpacks. And Nancy, you know, we've even gone back and forth here about, well, do you see it? Do you not? It's a catch 22. I don't, I don't know what is actually on the strap versus the jacket. And trying to locate it. You can't see anything there. But right There you can see it on his left strap, what appears to be a star.

Nancy Grace (32:39)

Guys, if you look at different angles, sometimes you can see it, sometimes you cannot see it. Is it real in any event, Eric Dickerson, this is a type of detail that has to be chased down by the feds, Right? Every detail could matter.

Eric Drickerson (32:56)

Yeah, and it's. Nancy, It's a relevant detail because it serves two purposes, really. Number one, the uniqueness of that star could help determine where that article of clothing or that backpack came from. That's an important detail. And the second point is it can help in asking for public assistance. This is somewhat unique, and it can help some witness or somebody who's willing to cooperate identify that clothing associated with a person. So either way, I think it's relevant whether it's a star, whether it's something else, just the fact that it's somewhat unique to that article of clothing.

Nancy Grace (33:41)

What about it, Brian Fitzgibbons? What, if anything, can you do with that? A detail like that can go a long way. Jump in.

Brian Fitzgibbons (33:50)

Absolutely. And you know, it's going to help investigators identify, you know, was this a piece of clothing that was produced with that star on it? You know, that's the brand's logo or whatever. Or was this an aftermarket thing? You know, what are there embroidery shops in Tucson that have put on 50 of these for a small business or a school or something related to it. So, you know, this will be very identifiable if that is indeed an embroidered star on that jacket.

Nancy Grace (34:22)

Other video emerges. Let's see it. Dave Mack, take a look at this and explain what we're seeing. Dave, go.

Dave Mack (34:30)

This is the same porch guy that we've been talking about, but this time it's a different place, a different angle. And as you can see as he's walking, he has a very specific gait, a very specific stride. Watch as he is walking. He's got something tied around his waist. Is that a shirt, jacket? This is from, again, not the same house. We're not talking at the Guthrie's. It's a different place, but in the same general area. So we've got him walking at night. And again, see there? There we go. A very specific stroll as he's walking it. Odd, just odd to be walking at that time.

Nancy Grace (35:11)

Yes, guys, we're getting that because we have been watching you from how tech 2 on X. How tech 2 on X. Now, Dave, I guess you've gotten your crystal ball out yet again. And you can tell me without a doubt that that's the same guy that was on Nancy Guthrie's porch. I want to have a field day with you on cross, but you actually may be right. Where are you getting your deductions?

Dave Mack (35:36)

I'm making it up. I. I'm seeing a guy dressed in very similar outfit to the man on camera.

Nancy Grace (35:42)

Did you just say you're making it up?

Dave Mack (35:45)

Well, I'm looking at it at the scene.

Nancy Grace (35:48)

Did you just say you're making it up? Well, okay.

Dave Mack (35:51)

I mean, I'm making up that I actually see a guy on video.

Nancy Grace (35:54)

I'm hearing him mute him, and I'm gonna let him think about what he just said. Okay. In the meantime, while Dave is pondering his future, straight out of. Scott Eichor joining us, digital expert, founding member of cellular analysis survey team with the FBI. You have thoughts on that? And actually, Dave, Mac could very well be right. He could be right, but I want to hear your analysis.

Scott Eichor (36:23)

Well, when we're looking at that video there, you can't really tell if it's the same guy or not. But what I don't know is when was that taken? You know, was it close to near Nancy Guthrie's house? It was interesting that to see after this person walks past the camera, that a police car comes by. So someone called the cops on him, and maybe he was identified. Is this one of the homeless encampment people that are walking around at night that just happened to be passing by this house? Either way, the important part is, is neighbors or people in the area are providing their camera information to the authorities. Hopefully not just on X as you said, this gentleman had posted, but they're post giving it to law enforcement so they can piece it together just to see if it's relevant or not.

Nancy Grace (37:13)

Okay, let's see him walk by again. Let me see that portion where he is walking by. If you can rack it back up. There he goes. Look at that. Is he wearing a hoodie or is he wearing a baseball cap? He definitely has on a backpack with reflective lights on it. I can see them, and they're on the shoulders, just like the porch guy. Is he. Dave Mack, you're out of your. You're off probation. Let's see. Look at that again, Dave. Look at this. Is the jacket he's got wrapped around his waist, the one that he's later wearing in the Nancy Guthrie porch video? I mean, you may not be half wrong, Dave Mack, but you're. You're still on double secret probation, Mac, for saying you made something up. But what else are you discerning from it very quickly?

Dave Mack (38:06)

No, I'm I was just really trying to point out Nancy, when we looking at this video from the same neighborhood at night as like you pointed out, you've got a police car actually turning around in the neighborhood. What are the odds that we've got multiple people on any night other than Halloween walking in a neighborhood at night dressed up in a very similar outfit to the person we see later at 1:47am or thereabouts on Nancy Guthrie's front

Weatherbug Announcer (38:36)

porch to whoever has her or knows where she is, that it's never too

Dave Mack (38:50)

late

Nancy Grace (38:54)

and you're not lost or alone

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Nancy Grace (42:15)

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Video that has emerged online on social media. We see yet another video that has been posted. It appears to be a white or Hispanic male on the front porch, reportedly from a home in the vicinity of Nancy Guthrie's home where she was kidnapped. This is an example of one of the many many videos reportedly caught on door cam surveillance cam and posted this as a composite has been released. But first, back to the video we just showed. Let's see that again. This guy featured in this video has not been named as a suspect, a person of interest in anything in relation to Nancy Guthrie's case. Tammy Ballard joining us. DNA Crime Scene Consultant, Crime Scene Investigation and Reconstruction expert, Law enforcement Liaison at OTHRAM Labs and former DNA criminalist in the San Diego Police Department Crime Lab. Tammy, it's really important that we don't have a wild goose chase for the wrong guy, right? But please everybody keep sending your videos, your door cams Your everything because you never know when you're gonna hit. All right, this guy we're showing you, let's see him again. No one is naming him as a defendant or a perpetual or a co defendant in this case. Tammy Ballard. Why is it so important that the wrong person is not named?

Dave Mack (44:21)

You do not want to follow a

Nancy Grace (44:23)

pathway and lose valuable time.

Dave Mack (44:28)

So at this point, excluding somebody is

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as important as including somebody.

Nancy Grace (44:33)

So whatever information that you can get,

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whatever items of evidence you can get

Nancy Grace (44:37)

to include or exclude somebody is very,

Dave Mack (44:41)

very critical at this time.

Nancy Grace (44:43)

Door cams, surveillance cams, yard cams, hunting cams, wildlife cams are being combed at this hour. Much of that video is being posted online. Much of it is being sent to the FBI. They want it. We keep hearing about the tens of thousands of tips that are pouring in. That's their job. They have an entire and elite crew set up. Joining me, Scott Eicher, digital forensics expert, founding member of the cellular analysis survey team, cast with the FBI. They are the people, the women and men you can thank for pulling up that front door video. Let's see it. Because it's amazing. Remember sheriff Nano said at the beginning, oh, shucks, everybody. It's just. It's just such a terrible coinky dink that Nancy Guthrie did not have a subscription to her nest because if she had paid that extra $8.99 a month, then we'd have the videos of the perp. Darny, darn, darn. The FBI was finally invited in. They cannot just come in unrequested. And they used their cast team to comb all of the data points, literally trillions of data points of information through Google, who owns Nest. Guthrie had a nest cam, a nest system, and out of all of those trillions of points of data, they find Nancy Guthrie's little itty bitty door cam, and they resurrect this. It's amazing. So Scott, who is wading through all of these videos like the one? We're just saying guy, not a suspect. That's an example of some of the videos that are being sent in. Who is doing it?

Scott Eichor (46:48)

Well, you've got probably 100 analysts in, in the command post and some being working remotely going through all these tips and, and ring camera and Nest camera video to try to collate and figure out which is important, which is not important, and kind of matching up movement of people through different cameras, just like this nest camera that cast was able to get. We had a good relationship with Google over the years dealing with their location information. So when we heard that the location Nest camera was being used. We were able to contact those, those partners and they were able to pull that video. So this is fantastic that we got this. There's going to be tons of people going through the, all the videos and tips that people are providing from their cameras in the neighborhood for that whole month. As we've heard that the police department and FBI are asking for video from almost a month back. So it's going to be a ton of work.

Nancy Grace (47:53)

I want to move now off of the video of possibly an unrelated guy on a porch that somebody sent in reportedly from Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. There he is on top. Not a suspect, not a person of interest, but whoever sent it is well intentioned. This is from USA News HQ on X. That's where it was posted. At this hour, we have a composite. Dave Mack joining me. Let's look directly at the composite. Don't dilute it with any other video or photo, please. Let's look directly at the composite. Dave Mack, tell me about the composite. From where did it come?

Dave Mack (48:35)

Well, Nancy, the FBI created this composite. When we saw them putting up the tent to do measurements in that entryway. They were looking for ways to figure out heights, weight and everything else. They've taken all of their knowledge of breaking down the video. And as was just mentioned a minute ago, we don't know what we're not being shown. Okay, what we're being shown is one thing, but they, they being the FBI and the sheriff's department probably have a whole lot more than they're sharing with us. But this composite sketch is very specific. Look at the, the facial hair, Nancy, and how we all thought he's got a mustache, possibly a goatee. Well, this is a very specific look. Also very specific hair length. And we know that the person seen on the porch wearing a hat covering his head. And so they've been able to come up with this based on all of the knowledge they have and all of the background in developing a composite. Look at that right there. You've got that knit hat pulled down tight. Yet they're able to come up with the type of hair they expect to see on this individual. A lot of work going into this and using everything possible to come up with height, weight and again, the actual look of the individual.

Nancy Grace (49:54)

So let me understand this, Dave Mack. This is not an official sketch. This is not released by the FBI and this is not released by nanos.

Dave Mack (50:04)

No, it is a retired prime sketch artist out of Houston named Lois Gibson and she did this unofficially, not asked or invited. Just did it out of her own background and knowledge and wrote this and drew the sketch. The FBI has given us the basic parameters of the height of a male who is 5 foot 9 to 5 foot 10, average build and wearing the black 25 liter Ozark Trail hiker pack backpack.

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Nancy Grace (50:37)

if there's anything at all that seems

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Nancy Grace (50:59)

We learn. A slowed down look at the porch guy reveals what appears to be a cell phone display in the background. Is that why sheriff Nanos in his wisdom continues to say there is an accomplice? Also, do we see identifying markers of a walkie talkie peeking out of the porch guy's pocket? I want to identify what appears to be and it's seems to be convincing. In a slow mo of the porch guy video. There appears to be a cell phone display off to the side. Now I want to see that still isolated still and I want to see it in slow mo. So if I could get the control room to show that as I go to the guest with me and all star panel to make sense of what we are learning right now. Straight out to Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. Wow, you really have to slow it down to see it. Dave Mack. Should I believe nanos or my lying eyes? That looks like a cell phone display, Dave.

Dave Mack (52:20)

Looks like one to me too, Nancy. And yeah, you gotta slow it down. But you can see something clearly there. It's rectangular, you know, looks like a, like a phone, which this is something we've been pointing to all along. That there's gotta be help here. And check that out. Look, you're seeing it right there on the edge of the screen. Boom. That is not the guy covering up the lens. That is somebody else with that camera or phone, rather.

Nancy Grace (52:45)

Joining me now, veteran trial lawyer Josh Colesrud from this jurisdiction, currently criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor, founder of Colesrude Law Offices. Josh, I actually don't need an esteemed founder cellular analysis survey team to tell me what I'm seeing. Do you see that, Josh?

Brian Fitzgibbons (53:06)

Yes, ma'. Am. It looks like there is something protruding out of somebody's pocket that resembles a phone. And this could be the smoking gun that we're all waiting for. I mean the cellular phone as we all know, has so much data that if that phone is on, it's only a matter of time before the FBI gets a hold of the information. Hopefully we're able to identify a suspect soon.

Nancy Grace (53:32)

Scott Eichor, Based on the shape of it, based on where we're seeing it. Thank you for circling it. That's perfect. Thank you. Control room. How could it be anything else?

Scott Eichor (53:47)

That's tough to. I do see the kind of rectangular. A flash of possibly a cell phone. Is it reflection from something else? Is it. You know, I have no idea what it is. I give you the benefit of the doubt that that could be a cell phone. And we're assuming that they're going to have a cell phone anyway. It really doesn't matter whether we see it in the camera. We're going to assume they have one.

Nancy Grace (54:12)

No, but this is a second person. It's not the person struggling with the foliage, Scott. It's a second person with a cell phone. I need to see it again, please, in slow mo, if you can, because some people suggest maybe it's the reflective backpack. I don't see how that's possible. Right there at that juncture, Dave Mack, what do you think about the possibility it's the reflection on the backpack? Because it seems to show up and then go away, and that wouldn't be so if it were the backpack.

Dave Mack (54:44)

I think it really is. When you look at where the suspect is standing. Okay. And where he's moving his hand, the backpack is going to be more towards the center of the screen. So, you know, because he's using his left hand on the shrubbery there to try to cover the lens. So to me, it looks like this is something clearly being moved by someone else on the other side of the. Of the suspect here. It doesn't. You know, that's what I'm seeing anyway.

Nancy Grace (55:11)

Okay. Coles Root, have you looked at this? And what if. So tell me your analysis.

Brian Fitzgibbons (55:16)

You know, I. My first thought is this couldn't be the backpack because it would be obstructed by the body. I mean, the backpack is on the back. And when you look at this, it just. It resembles what any layman would say is a cell phone, and it needs to be investigated one way or the other.

Nancy Grace (55:37)

Well, the reason I don't think it's the backpack, Josh, if you look at the backpack, there's also reflective strips right here in the front. So I think that that is what some people are talking about. But the issue is. Play it again, please. When you see it pop up, it's disjointed from the actor, it's disjointed from him. It's. It darts in as he's already acting. See what I mean? It's not connected to his movements, which makes me think it's not the backpack. I want you to see this. Everybody on the panel, take a look at this. It looks as if a walkie talkie. I'll just call it an antenna, for lack of a better word, is protruding from the porch. Guy's right pocket. Look at that. I think, okay, that looks. Yeah, that's his left pocket. Look at that left pocket. Can we. Can we zoom in on that again? And if you could give me a steel and enlarge. Looks like the antenna of a walkie talkie, which further signifies an accomplice. Okay, straight back out to veteran trial lawyer joining us tonight, Josh G. Colesrud. He's in this jurisdiction, good or bad that there is an accomplice. I say good because it's easier to find two people than it is to find one person. Plus, the more people that are involved, the more likely somebody's going to blab. Or the more likely. Isn't it always the way, Josh, it's the girlfriend, the wife, the mother, the ex, the little old lady that lives next door to blurt out, hey, wait a minute, I saw. Fill in the blank. The more people you have involved, the more likely the case is going to be solved. So if there's a walkie talkie in play, that tells me there is somebody else.

Brian Fitzgibbons (57:34)

Exactly. And, you know, there's an old saying, loose lips sink ships. And the more people you have involved, the more likely somebody is going to open their mouth, they're going to brag about it to their girlfriend, they're going to feel maybe they're left out and they want money. Who knows? The more people involved, the greater the likelihood that this conspiracy is going to be exposed.

Nancy Grace (58:01)

Coming up, back to you, Iker. What about the possibility that a walkie talkie. That is a walkie talkie protruding from his pocket, what does that mean to you? Evidentiarily?

Scott Eichor (58:15)

Well, it's obviously a little more pre planned and more complicated than we thought initially. When we see the, you know, the perpetrators actually planning this a little bit better if they're planning to have walkie talkies, even though the guy kind of looked fumbling around on the front porch. Maybe these guys are a little more sophisticated than we thought. Using walkie talkies to communicate for, you know, security for themselves to say, hey, there's someone walking down the street. Get out of there, or something like that. It means to me that if that is a walkie talkie, that we're gonna, you know, have to be a little more concerned that These are guys are more professional than we thought.

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Nancy Grace (59:18)

I want you to take a look at video. It is from a Ring neighborhood app and it shows a guy in a similar outfit with not one, but two backpacks. Now watch the sky. There he is. He's not dropping the backpack in his left hand. He's holding it over as if he's trying to. He's trying to get through that gate and he can't do it. Significance? This is around 1am As I recall, the night that Nancy is kidnapped. And this is near her home. What is he doing? Watch him. He's not going to either carry. He's walking off. Who is this guy? Dave Mack with me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. By the way, this is from Iamylee on X. Keep it on the video. I want to keep looking at the video. Dave. Matt, explain to me everything you know about this.

Dave Mack (60:19)

Well, we know that this was at 1:53am Nancy, on the same. At the same time that we suspect Nancy Guthrie was being or getting ready to be roused out of bed. And what we're watching right there, you're watching the guy. He's walking away like he's going back into a garage area. But Nancy, when he comes back, you'll see the FBI already has this video because these backpacks, first of all, why is he carrying. Wearing one and carrying another. He appears to like, drag it over the top of the fence. Like he's looking for a latch somehow to get through that gate. Gate. Me talking to somebody on the other side of the gate like, do this, do that. His backpack does have reflectors on it. And that's the really attractive part of this from the standpoint of comparison to the what we saw on Nancy Guthrie's porch. But coming back over that gate with that bag again, and you see he's holding it at a high level as he comes over or goes back. Not sure what he's carrying in there, but there's. Look at 1:53am what is a grown man doing in that spot at that time wearing a backpack and carrying another and dangling it over a fence.

Nancy Grace (61:31)

The other guy had two backpacks. Look at the porch guy, the intruder that took Nancy Guthrie in one photo. He doesn't yet have a backpack. The other guy had two backpacks. Then the porch guy has a backpack. This is all happening at the same time within the same 20 critical minutes. The backpack he's handling is stuffed to the gills. He leaves with the backpack stuffed to the gills. Now back to the porch guy, please. That is from Iamylee on X that was posted on neighborhood ring app. Let's get the video of him where we can see his backpack. And it also is stuffed to the gills. I want to see his backpack when he turns around. It's completely stuffed. How far away from Nancy's home is this?

Dave Mack (62:44)

Five miles.

Nancy Grace (62:45)

Nancy, there is also video circulating from February 2nd. What's interesting about this is it looks like the same guy's legs, the stocky thighs, there's the backpack, similar leggings. But I don't see the significance. This from I, Amy Lee on X, because isn't this February 2nd?

Dave Mack (63:10)

The significance is that we've got somebody that is seemingly matching some of the description you mentioned. The legs in a similar type outfit again wearing a backpack. And he's out checking cars. Is he trying to find one that's unlocked that he can steal? He's just seemingly walking aimlessly trying to open a car door. But again, you do have kind of a walk to look at. You've got a guy wearing a backpack. I don't know if this is something unique to Tucson, but as an adult male, I don't wear a backpack and I don't know anybody that does. So it just seems like an odd thing to happen 24 hours after the time we're talking about Nancy Guthrie being home.

Nancy Grace (63:54)

If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free 8002-2553-2480-0225-5324 or if you wish to remain anonymous, 5208-8274-6352-0882, 7463. There is a 1.2 million dollar reward combined tonight. $1.2 million reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. Nancy Gray, signing off. Good night, friend.

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