SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 39

Summary

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 39

Date: March 11, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Main Guests: Darren ‘the Dude’ Rosa (tattoo artist), Brian Fitzgibbons (USPA Director of Operations), Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst), Dave Mack (Crime Stories Reporter)

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the ongoing search for Nancy Guthrie, missing for 39 days, and the renewed urgency in finding leads through public appeals for surveillance video. Nancy Grace’s signature in-depth analysis focuses extensively on a tantalizing clue: a glimpse of the perpetrator’s wrist tattoo captured by a security camera. The panel explores how tattoo forensics, behavioral profiling, and the handling of ransom notes could break the case. The show emphasizes law enforcement’s appeals to the public for evidence, debates FBI strategy, and highlights the significance of small clues in high-profile abductions.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Porch Video & The Tattoo Clue

• [02:12]–[03:25] Nancy sets the scene of the critical evidence: porch video footage of a person approaching Nancy Guthrie’s home, concealing identity but revealing a sliver of wrist tattoo when tampering with the door camera.
• Tattoo Artist Analysis:
  • [06:10]–[14:51] Darren ‘the Dude’ Rosa systematically breaks down the visible tattoo and its implications:
    • Covered head to toe, the suspect took care to conceal personal identifiers (long sleeves, gloves, face mask).
    • Quote:
      "He's got the hoodie, the gloves. Looks like he's right handed. He keeps preferring that hand... I see black and gray work. I can see some subtle shading on the edges of the crease. It looks like to me it's most likely a full sleeve." – Darren 'the Dude' Rosa, [06:10]
    • Black and gray is a dominant tattoo style among Mexican cartel/Chicano gangs, often featuring religious or memorial imagery (angels, clouds, “in memory of”, etc.).
    • The presence of a wrist tattoo likely suggests the individual is heavily tattooed, possibly with full tattoo “sleeves,” additional hand and neck tattoos—strong indicators of gang affiliation.
    • Delicate but slightly blurry lines suggest either a higher-end prison tattoo (penitentiary, not jail) or experienced street/gang tattooing.
• Tattoo Addiction & Cultural Patterns:
  • Nancy and Darren discuss how tattooing, once started, can become an addiction for some and acts as an identifier within organized crime.

2. Tattoo as Evidence: Databases and Gang Affiliation

• [03:32]–[06:10], [07:07]–[10:06] Nancy details how law enforcement leverages tattoo databases to link suspects, citing the FBI’s gang and inmate tattoo archives, as well as specialized analyses in Quantico.
• Tattoos on high-visibility areas (wrist, neck, hands) are rare outside of heavy tattoo culture or gang members, bolstering the argument that the perp is not a novice.

3. Law Enforcement Strategy: Public Appeals & Video Evidence

• [27:02]–[28:39], [31:54]–[33:26] Pima County Sheriff’s Office has created an urgent, simplified website for citizens to upload any video, echoing tactics that broke major cases like those of Brian Kohberger, Caitlin Armstrong, and Molly Tibbets.
  • Quote:
    "It's a very simple click to send website... It's a very simple process, very wise. They did it. I'm just surprised it took so long." – Dave Mack, [27:54]
• Enhanced video analysis continues, with authorities encouraging re-examination of local footage, emphasizing that even minor or initially overlooked videos can prove pivotal.

4. The Ransom Note Debate

• [34:02]–[49:40] The panel discusses the ongoing debate about releasing the text of ransom notes:
  • Nancy is surprised the notes—allegedly digital, short, and sent to TMZ—haven’t been made public, arguing that language and phrasing (i.e., “vernacular”) can be a powerful way to identify a perpetrator, as in the Unabomber and JonBenét Ramsey cases.
  • Law enforcement (particularly the FBI) is reluctant, fearing the risk of inspiring copycats or compromising investigative leads.
  • Quote:
    "Most people have what I call affectations in their speech... There's going to be some kind of an affectation in these notes that would be recognizable to a family member or a friend of the perpetrator." – Dr. Bethany Marshall, [36:02]

5. Behavioral and Criminal Profiling of the Suspect

• [34:51]–[38:24] Dr. Bethany Marshall provides a psychological perspective:
  • The ransom notes’ brevity and character could reveal motive—basic greed vs. stalker ideology.
  • “Porch guy” moves with casual arrogance, suggesting prior experience or a sense of entitlement.
  • Unawareness of the doorbell camera might mean prior offenses targeted less-protected, lower-income homes.
  • The suspect’s family background may be blue-collar, lacking forensic awareness (e.g., not in CODIS or genealogy databases).

6. Direct Appeals and Human Impact

• Throughout the episode, Nancy and Bethenny Frankel make repeated, emotional appeals for information, reminding listeners of the $1.2M reward and underscoring the victim’s humanity.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tattoo Clues:
  "It's amazing what, that we even got that sliver from that ring camera. Like props to the ring camera." – Darren 'the Dude' Rosa, [10:51]
• On the Perp’s Behavioral Clues:
  "He saunters up to the house as if he owns the place. There's a casual arrogance which tells me that he has done this before..." – Dr. Bethany Marshall, [36:48]
• On the Value of Community Evidence:
  "This crime can be solved, but it's probably caught on video. It's one of these videos that maybe they didn't think about..." – Dave Mack, [27:54]
• On the Urgency of Public Appeals:
  "Can it work? It worked in those cases..." – Nancy Grace, discussing famous cases solved by citizen video, [31:54]
• On the Challenge of Copycats:
  "The FBI doesn't want to cloud this with copycats being created..." – Brian Fitzgibbons, [49:27]

---

Important Timestamps

• [02:12] Nancy summarizes the video evidence and introduces the tattoo clue
• [06:10] Tattoo forensics breakdown with Darren Rosa
• [10:51] Reiteration on significance of the tattoo and gang affiliation
• [18:19]–[21:54] Sleeves, hand, neck tattoos—criminal/gang culture
• [27:54] Law enforcement’s public video submission plea discussed
• [31:54] Nancy recalls landmark video-evidence cases
• [34:02], [45:15] Debate on releasing ransom notes
• [36:02] Dr. Bethany Marshall on speech patterns and possible identification
• [46:16]–[49:40] FBI strategy on withholding evidence and parallels to famous cases

---

Episode Flow & Tone

• Conversational yet intensely analytical, mixing Nancy Grace’s urgency and skepticism with in-depth expert opinions.
• The episode moves briskly between technical forensics, behavioral psychology, law enforcement tactics, and appeals to the audience.
• At several points, personal anecdotes (Darren ‘the Dude’ Rosa’s past FBI collaborations, Bethenny Frankel’s appeals) ground the high-profile story in lived experience.

---

Conclusion

As the search for Nancy Guthrie continues past five weeks, Nancy Grace and her expert panel highlight the case’s principal clues—a distinctive wrist tattoo, the behavior of the person caught on video, and the opaque handling of ransom communications. Law enforcement’s focus on public engagement (especially video submissions) is underscored, with the call to action louder than ever. The episode closes with a final emotional plea: every detail matters, and someone listening may hold the key to solving the disappearance.

---

If you have any information on Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance, call the dedicated tip lines provided in the episode.

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Dave Mack]

Guaranteed Human Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless Way too much. Please, for the love of everything good

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

in this world, stop with Mint.

[Dave Mack]

You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments.

[Nancy Grace]

But that's weird.

[Dave Mack]

Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Bethenny Frankel]

of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan taxes and fees extra.

See full terms@mint mobile.com this is Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethenny Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Real 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference. Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy. Dogs that feel better. My babies, if you've been on the fence about switching, stop overthinking it. What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed. Just try it.

You can't solve every case for your

[Nancy Grace]

kids, but with Greenlight, they'll have the

[Bethenny Frankel]

instincts and the money skills to stay out of trouble. With a Greenlight debit card and money app, parents can monitor spending and teach financial responsibility.

[Nancy Grace]

It's an easy way to guide kids as they grow from earning allowance and tracking chores to teaching how to save and even invest. Start your risk free Greenlight trial [e-mail] iheart that's greenlight.com iheart kids pets life.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Your sofa sees it all. But with a washable sofa, stains don't stand a chance. All of our sofa collections come with fully machine washable covers and cushions, making cleanup effortless. Liquid and stain resistant fabrics provide extra protection against everyday messes. Plus, with modular designs, you can rearrange your sofa however you like. Perfect for growing families and changing spaces. Starting at just $699, it's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother Nancy Guthrie missing day 39 with so many agents, so much forensic technology, how can we not find an 84 year old grandma tonight breaking Regarding the tattoo we've all been studying, an expert joins us with all of the clues that are left behind because of that one sliver on the perp's wrist. And also, why not release the ransom notes at this juncture? Couldn't the vernacular, the verbiage in that ransom note reveal to some people who the kidnapper is? How can we trace the email? Was that the way it was conveyed? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. It's like he didn't expect the camera to be working and then he has to backtrack and try to cover it. He's like, what? Maybe I can beat it to death? And then got the big surprise when maybe he saw the camera blinking.

[Dave Mack]

What we're looking at here is likely some kind of vandalism that took place.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us at all star panel to make sense of what we are learning tonight in the search for Nancy Guthrie, we do know that authorities have asked Mexican residents to pull video. Is that being done in the Nancy Guthrie case? Joining us right now, a special guest, Darren the Dude Rosa. Darren, tattoo artist of Rising Dragon tattoos in New York City. 30 plus years perfecting artistry in Japanese fantasy American traditional and bold style tattoo@rising dragon.com Darren the Dude Rosa, thank you for being with us. I know you have carefully studied the perp's wrist. Let's see the video of the porch guy approaching the front door of Nancy Guthrie's home there in Tucson. The video. Now notice he's got his body totally covered. Long sleeves, gloves, possibly two sets of gloves, face covering, the works. Now wait for it. At some point, he reaches up to dismantle or up the door cam or obfuscate his own moves. And when he does that, much is revealed. Now we know that the FBI has a tattoo data bank largely gleaned from gang memberships. It includes jail tattoos. It includes felons that are not members of gangs and their tattoos. Whenever a person has a tattoo that is entered in writing, in typed writing on their bookken report every tattoo, every mark on their body. Very often those tattoos are photographed at the time of bookend to identify the perpetual. We also know that Arizona has a gang tattoo database. We also know about tag tattoo and graffiti, a special elite team in Quantico that analyzes tattoos and graffiti of all sorts, even from foreign countries. Now let's zoom in on the tattoo. Let's zoom in. Take a look at the tattoo. The sliver of tattoo between the sleeve and the glove. Straight out to Darren the Dude. Rosa, you have studied this and what, if anything, have you learned?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Yeah. Well, very interesting watching that footage with you with you? First of all, it looks like he took care of to cover himself. He's got the hoodie, the gloves. Looks like he's right handed. He. He keeps preferring that hand when he's, when he's trying to cover the ring cam, the very sliver. I see black and gray work. I can see some subtle shading on the edges of, of the crease. It looks like to me it's most likely a full sleeve, especially because he took.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, hold on just a second. You've got DEFCON 4 on me. Darren, the dude, I want to talk to you. You said you see black and gray work for those not familiar with the gang affiliation tattoos. What does black and gray mean to you?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Oh, okay. Well, it's a prevalent style, especially with the Mexican cartel or the Chicano gangs. They prefer a style where the outline of the tattoo is a single needle and the majority of the tattoo is shaded with levels of black ink. We refer to as black and gray.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, look at the photo. Tell me what you're saying. I think I know what you're saying regarding black and gray, but explain to the viewers, please.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Okay, well, you know, we can see some form and then on edges, it looks like some shading in between the black forms. You know, just based on the location, New Mexico, California, all of the neighboring states, there's a high prevalence of these kind of gangs. And this is the preferred method of, of of tattooing that, that they like and they appreciate and they also use to identify members of the gang. And I would, you know, besides covering his fingerprints, assume that he's also has hands tattoos and that, you know, like to, to have your wrist tattooed. People don't normally go out of their way to just have their wrist tattooed. Most likely, he is very heavily tattooed. He has tattoos on his hands, and it's probably a gang of affiliation.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Darren, the dude Rosa joining us from New York City. He is at Rising Dragon Tattoos. Okay, Darren, I want to follow up on something that you just said.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Sure.

[Nancy Grace]

You stated that an individual would not go out of their way just to have their wrist tattooed. What did you mean by that?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

What I meant by that, you know, and kind of goes to my first point. This guy is, you know, I would put all the money in my pocket that this guy is very heavily tattooed. He has quote unquote sleeves. So I would say we're looking for a heavily tattooed individual. He's wearing the baklava. You know, I put more money down. And he probably has neck tattoos. This is the, this is, you Know how they like to get tattooed.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, let me see. Darren. Darren Rosa joining us. I see you have a neck tattoo. Are you telling me that no one would go either way just to get a wrist tattoo? Therefore. Nice. Is that the devil? Is it the devil?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

I showed my neck tattoos because they're in color. Is that the devil?

[Nancy Grace]

Is that the devil on your neck? What is that?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Oh, no, that's the dragon head.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I see it better now. Okay, I'm glad to know it's not Satan himself. Now back to this. Okay, I agree with you. Every time I have dealt with a defendant or a witness that had anything on the wrist, it was part of a larger tattoo. Always the only time I've seen a singular wrist tattoo. Okay, let's use Angelina Jolie as an example. Okay. Maybe a female might get DOB or some little.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Yeah, they get a little infinity loop or like their grandfather's initials or something. But, you know, this guy is absolutely heavily tattooed. And it's amazing. Oh, yeah, it's amazing what, that we even got that sliver from that ring camera. Like props to the ring camera.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, tell it Google. Google did it. So, Darren, you are confident based on 30 plus years in the tattoo business, that this guy has a full sleeve Translation from here up, covering the arm like a sleeve. That's what a sleeve means.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

He's probably covered everywhere. And especially why, you know, okay. He doesn't want to be seen. He's wearing a baklava. But I would, hands down bet he's also got neck tattoos and probably something near his eye because that's how they run.

[Nancy Grace]

Just to help you going forward. Baklava is a nut based dessert.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Okay.

[Nancy Grace]

Balaclava is the covering. So when you go to a great restaurant, baklava would be delicious. Okay, back to the tattoos. Do you believe that getting tattoos is addictive? And I've got a reason for asking. Because you're saying you think this guy's heavily tat. I think it's addictive. Once you start, you like it, and then you end up with your whole body covered. Well, there's.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

There's a lot of different factors, and we have our Bethany, you know, for our behavior analyst. But I mean, there is endorphins, like any people who get addictive to marathon races or. Or ultra marathon races. The. The runners high. There is something called ink therapy that people who come to us in the winter months or are suffering from seasonal depression come in for ink therapy. Yeah, people most likely get heavy work, but also gangs, cartels get heavy work. The kind of people that would perform this kind of crime get heavy work.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, you mentioned black and gray work that you've identified in that sliver of tattoo that you believe that is part of a particular region's choice. And what region would that be?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

That would be the southwestern. Right. States with California, you know, the neighboring states, Arizona, you know. And not to put anything against the Mexican people, but it's a very high population of Mexican immigrants. And those of them who don't get legal work, you know, go to crime and join gangs. It's just a natural evolution.

[Nancy Grace]

Speaking of crime, I've been looking very carefully at the tattoo Darren the Dude, and I don't believe it's a jail tat. But you have a different opinion. Explain.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Well, you know, it doesn't look like super clean work. It looks a little fuzzy. I know the whole image is fuzzy, but I would say if it was performed in a penitentiary, they might do makeshift tools. They're not going to use high grade 316 Japanese steel for their needles. So you're going to get some bleed throughs on the outlines. It's just how they do it.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, Darren, I disagree with you. Of course, my law degrees have not prepared me to argue with you sufficiently. But every jail tat I've ever seen was not that delicate because they don't have the tools that you were just mentioning the fine precision tattoo tools behind bars. You mentioned penitentiary as opposed to jail. Do you find more prison tats in the pen versus the local jail? Because I do.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Okay, right. Penitentiary means they're going to be there for a long time. Correct. So these people, especially if we're talking about cartels or gangs or whatnot, become very sophisticated with their network of who assists them. Right. In their daily activities and their income. Their going to be friendly with guards, staff, et cetera. They're going to have stuff smuggled in or assisted in. And some of the work has become a lot more. I've seen very sophisticated stuff to rival legal tattoo shops. I've seen very sophisticated stuff come out of penitentiary.

[Nancy Grace]

Darren, the reason I'm making the subtle but important distinction between jail and pen is because if he's in the pen versus the jail, that gives gives me another clue as to who he is. Jail, jail. Think of Andy of Mayberry. Think of the Fulton county jail. Think of the local jail. The time you spend in a local jail is less than in the penn. The penitentiary, the CI Correctional Institute. Why you were in the local jail. You are in the local jail because you've Got a misdemeanor and you're doing 12 months or less, or you're waiting for your trial or your court date. That's less time for you to smuggle in tattoo artistry, mechanisms or. So my point is, you got to be there for a while to get all that smuggled into you. So that tells me if this is a jail tat, this guy has done hard time in the pen and he's been convicted, as opposed to waiting at the Mayberry lockup with Otis. See what I mean? That's giving me a clue as to who he is. And now you believe this could be a prison tat? I do not. Because it's too delicate. You refer to a Japanese needle. What type of instrument would be used to create a tattoo of this magnitude? A full sleeve of that fine definition?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Well, these days the tattoo machine has evolved into kind of a fat marker like pencil and very sophisticated gradations and needles. These new machines take what we call. They no longer take needle bars, they take cartridges. And some of the better cartridges are using 316. It's a type of stainless steel, Japanese metal for the needles. So sophisticated tattoos can definitely be performed in the. In the pen. Absolutely.

[Nancy Grace]

So black and gray work from the southwestern region of the country. The wrist tattoo indicates a full sleeve. A full sleeve, ergo, therefore suggest a full body tat. You believe the gloves not only cover up fingerprints, but also an identifying tattoo.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

Would he have tattoos on his hand? Would that be inked?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Absolutely, absolutely. It's a continuation. I mean, he's got a sleeve, he's got a hand tattoo. And what we're seeing is just the in between. This is the junction.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, let me ask you the million dollar question, literally the 1.2 plus million dollar question, because that is the amount of the reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. 1.2 plus million dollars on the table. Darren, after looking at this, I want you to think carefully before you answer. Could you identify. Just make a stab at it. Your best estimate as to what this sliver, it's a small portion of a larger tattoo.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

What is it most likely, you know, if we're going to go with the Chicano gangs and stuff like that, it's going to be angels, cloud work, family members. It's going to be some kind of in memory, some kind of memorial to either a deceased relative or a friend who died with him on the streets.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm looking at it as you're speaking. You said angels, cloud work. What's cloud work?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Clouds, Heaven. You Know, like in memory of, there would be words like to, you know, to my uncle, an angel, maybe some praying hands, all these kind of like Christian symbolism. That would be my stat.

[Nancy Grace]

And also Darren the Dude Rosa, you mentioned you believe he's right hand dominant. Do people typically get their dominant arm or hand tattooed or no?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

No. Well, if we just go by the people coming in my shop, for some reason they want to get their left arm done first. Not sure why it might be this psychological thing to get like the, the weak arm strengthened. Because tattoos can be like a symbolism of strength or protection and that might be why a lot of people tend to get their left side first.

[Nancy Grace]

If this is his right side and we know it's a full sleeve, that means his left arm, which he probably had tatted first, is also a sleeve. So we got two sleeves and according to your reasoning, a full body. Joining us, Darren the Dude Rosa, renowned tattoo artist in that circle at Rising Dragon tattoos in New York. 30 plus years perfecting artistry in Japanese fantasy, American traditional and bull style tattooing. Any other thoughts on the tattoo, Darren?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

I would say like, like, like to repeat, this is going to be heavy work. He's covering up his hands and his neck. I would say all of that is, all of that's tattooed. And he's most likely in a gang affiliation. He most likely had some help. So I would say his crew is also heavily tattooed.

[Nancy Grace]

And Darren, have you ever been approached by law enforcement to identify a tattoo on a perp?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Yes, I have. Funny you should ask that question. That's a great question. Many years ago, I would say about 30 years ago, I had FBI approach me with photos of a Long island her. This particular serial killer was going after pay for sex women and they all had tattoos. Actually.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethany Frankel from just be with Bethenny Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Dogs real 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference. Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy, dogs that feel better. My babies, if you've been on the fence about switching, stop overthinking it. What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed, just try it.

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin, Meaningful beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's Full regimen which contains all five of her her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. Its melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory product, five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that [e-mail] Kids Pets Life. Your sofa sees it all. But with a washable sofa, stains don't stand a chance. All of our sofa collections come with fully machine washable covers and cushions making cleanup effortless. Liquid and stain resistant fabrics provide extra protection against everyday messes. Plus with modular designs you can rearrange your sofa however you like. Perfect for growing families and changing spaces. Starting at just $699, it's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may

[Dave Mack]

apply Flag Football is exploding and iflag is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Holder. Iflag hosts premier flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game ready to be part of it. Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org crime stories with Nancy Grace.

[Nancy Grace]

Darren Isn't it true that tattoo artists like yourselves have huge catalogs of tattoos for people to pick from? And isn't it also true that the tattoo artist that did this likely did all of his tattoo work and would remember it if they could be found?

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

Yeah, that's true. The catalog thing doesn't apply apply so much. I, I would think if he was in a pen and and he was getting, like I said, Chicano tattoos, they were probably, you know, spontaneous put together with with some of those Christian symbols and memorials I I, I talked about, but absolutely. Most likely the guy who tattooed him Is also in a penitentiary unless he's gotten out, been released.

[Bethenny Frankel]

I wanted to come on and

[Nancy Grace]

it's been two weeks since our mom was

[Bethenny Frankel]

taken, and

[Nancy Grace]

I just wanted to come on and say that

[Bethenny Frankel]

we still have hope and we still believe.

[Nancy Grace]

The pima county sheriff's department has put up a link begging for video. Let's see the link from pima county sheriff's department. It states that the department is urgently requesting assistance in locating Nancy Guthrie. They describe her age, last seen. If you have info, contact pima county sheriffs. They give the number and. And they actually give you a way to submit video evidence. I can't stress how important this is. Straight out to Dave mack, crime stories investigative reporter. Tell me about the website set up by pima county for citizens to hand over surveillance video.

[Dave Mack]

Nancy, It's a very simple click to send website. There's a link right there on the page so that people living in the area or outside that have any kind of video or pictures that are of interest that they can submit right there online. It's a very simple process, very wise. They did it. I'm just surprised it took so long. But, Nancy, right now, law enforcement knows that these. This crime can be solved, but it's probably caught on video. And it's one of these videos that maybe they didn't think about or somebody saw and didn't give any credence to. And now they're going, wait a minute, I need to go back and look. That's what law enforcement has been asking of neighbors of Nancy Guthrie. You know, please go back and review your video footage. Now. They're.

[Nancy Grace]

And they actually say, urgent. Urgent request. Guys, you can find this online. This is from our friends at fox news. And the reason we're showing it is because a neighbor submitted this video, which behind the porch guy video could be the single strongest evidence in this case. Trust me. This is being analyzed, blown up, isoed the works. And it wouldn't be the first time a case was cracked by car surveillance video. Do I have to say Brian Kohberger? Let's see that video. He went back to the scene at least 11 times. But this is the video that I find really interesting. There is video of him cruising around the neighborhood. It's hard for us to make out with the naked eye, but this was enhanced and ISO isolated to catch his white elantra. Not only there, but a store clerk, like a 711 quick trip type convenience store, took it upon herself to go through hours and hours of video and then call le law enforcement when she spots a white Elantra speeding by the morning of the murders around 4am that is where white Elantra first originated from. Her then white Elantra was sent to law enforcement all around the area, including Washington State University in Pullman. They plug in who's registered here for a parking permit with a white Elantra. That's the first time the name Brian Kohberger emerged. Let's see. Then of course there's the Caitlin Armstrong case. The so called glam yoga instructor. There she is circling, circling multiple times. Once wasn't enough. Casing the home of her love rival, a world champion, beautiful young dirt bike racer in her early 20s. She murdered her. She murdered her over a love triangle, or so she perceived. Caught on video that leads to the yoga instructor, the glam yoga instructor as she is called. She looks like Satan to me. Caitlin Armstrong was convicted murder. And then of course Molly Tibbets, the young co ed, studying all day into the evening, decides to go for a run. She is approached by this vehicle, see, following her as she's running. She finally threatens to call 911. At that point the perp attacks her and murders her. Distinctive markings on the side of his vehicle lead to the killer and he is convicted. So in this case, to use Scott Eichor, an urgent plea to the public has now been made. Submit your video. Can it work? It worked in those cases.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

It's a fantastic push. Again, I know they've said it several times but now they're giving them a quicker way to submit that video. You got to remember, it's probably the older community doesn't know how to get the video off their cameras or how to provide it. You know, a simple way to get that information to the website. Hopefully that helps or at least have the FBI or the sheriff's office come over and download that stuff for them. I think it could be a very key aspect to the case. We've seen this numerous times and as this investigation progresses from the frantic stage of hey, we've got a missing person to we've got, you know, now we have a possible kidnapping to now we're kind of getting into, all right, the forming of a task force. When you form this task force, you're kind of going backwards a little bit to say, all right, we need to regroup, we need to re examine the data we have now we need a second set of eyes on it. We need to re triage the all the 40,000 leads that came in and see did we miss something the first time? And they and they might start saying, okay, you know what? We, we're missing video from this area. Let's make another push to get more video from that area.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

In a case such as this, you're going to keep that evidence until the case is completed. We never took something and then fixed it and gave it back to the people that we took it from.

[Nancy Grace]

What were they looking for? Day 39 in the search for Nancy Guthrie. Now, the FBI, using the Behavioral analysis team, looking at everything, every identifiable thing, every mannerism of the porch guy. Straight back out to Brian Fitzgibbons. Discuss from director operations, USPA nationwide security as to why the ransom note hadn't been released. You say you're not surprised. I am surprised, because at this juncture, what is there to lose?

[Dave Mack]

Yeah, again, I don't believe the f. The FBI will release something if they believe they have something to gain from it.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

And I think in this case, you know, with these short ransom letters, there's nothing for them to gain and potentially things for them to lose about releasing information about the crime scene that may have not been public yet.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of the Beverly Hills jurisdiction, Dr. Bethany Marshall. She's the author of deal breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and find [e-mail] marshall.com. Dr. Bethany, while the FBI is sifting through over 40,000 tips, they've got the behavioral analysis team looking at his every move, his tattoo, the ransom notes. Why not release them? And what, if anything, have you gleaned?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

You know, Nancy, those ransom notes are so important because they tell us something about intent. If it's a very short note that's asking for financial remuneration or some kind of, you know, money, then that means the intent was just a kidnap for profit. However, if there's some kind of ideology in there, some kind of a missive or a manifesto, now the intent changes to more of a stalking profile because we know that stalkers cannot help but write about their relationship with the victim and the victim's families. And stalkers do pick up a lot of clues about the victim's life. So the fact that this person knew something inside of Nancy's house, it could tilt either way. Kidnapped for profit, proving that she's they were in there. Or kidnap as a part of a stalking, meaning that this perpetrator had gleaned a lot about Nancy Guthrie's life.

[Nancy Grace]

What do you make of not releasing the ransom notes? Dr. Bethany? Because I feel at this juncture, what is there to lose?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

I wish they would release the ransom notes. And I'll tell you why. Most people have what I call affectations in their speech. It's, it's a word or a flourish that they use to make what they're talking about seem more important than it really is. And so I think people who are criminal are sort of rather empty people, grandiose people. They have poor thought, you know, reasoning abilities. So I would guess that there's going to be some kind of an affectation in these notes that would be recognizable to a family member or a friend of the perpetrator.

[Nancy Grace]

Do you agree or disagree, Dr. Bethany, that the perp likely has a criminal history?

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

You know what I do think the fact that they couldn't find him in CODIS tells me that he's in a family, comes from a family who's rather unsophisticated. In other words, they're not on 23andMe. They're not doing genealogy research in their leisure time. That it's a very hardworking family whose time is tied up making money. In terms of a criminal history, what I really think, you know, Nancy, I want to talk about the behavior and criminality. When I first saw Porch Guy, I felt irritated. And I've examined what was my irritation about. He saunters up to the house as if he owns the place. There's a casual arrogance which tells me that he has done this before. Either he has a relationship with Nancy and he feels like he has power over her and that's the casual arrogance, or he has targeted old ladies and he's broken into houses before and that that's where we see the familiarity. On the other hand, he does not anticipate the ring camera, which tells me that if his offending pattern is targeting elderly people who can easily be subdued and he's not too concerned about, you know, being caught, that he's really been targeting lower income households which do not have ring cameras. So that maybe this guy's offending pattern is that he's becoming emboldened to go wealthier and wealthier areas where he encounters new scenarios that he had not anticipated.

[Bethenny Frankel]

To whoever has her or knows where

[Nancy Grace]

she is, that

[Bethenny Frankel]

it's never too late and you're not lost

[Dave Mack]

or alone

[Bethenny Frankel]

and it is never too late to do the right thing.

[Nancy Grace]

And we are here,

[Bethenny Frankel]

we believe

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

and

[Nancy Grace]

we believe in the essential goodness of every human being. And it's never too late.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Real 100 human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference. Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy. Dogs that feel better. My babies. If you've been on the fence about switching, stop overthinking it. What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed. Just try it.

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty.

[Nancy Grace]

When Dr. Sabah and I decided to

[Bethenny Frankel]

do a skincare line together, he said

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

to me, we are gonna give women meaningful beauty.

[Bethenny Frankel]

And I said, that's exactly right. We wanna give women meaningful beauty.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Which means each and every product is meaningful.

[Nancy Grace]

It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

You're going to get results and then

[Bethenny Frankel]

you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty Confidence is beautiful. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com

[Dave Mack]

Flag football is exploding and IFLAG is leading the way as the Guinness World Record holder. Iflag hosts premiere flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it? Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org magnesium supplements.

[Bethenny Frankel]

You've mastered the basics. Now it's time to optimize. If you're serious about dialing in your health, upgrading your magnesium is optional. It's the key to leveling up your whole body. That's where Solaray Magnesium Glycinate comes in. Mag Gly. From the number one magnesium brand in health food stores, Solaray has a 50 year legacy of delivering quality and trust in every capsule. Each ingredient is triple tested for identity, purity and potency in Solaray's GMP certified facility in Ogden, Utah. That means what's on the label is what's in your bottle. No guesswork, just premium Mag Gly plus it's chelated in house for powerful muscle, bone and relaxation support. That's designed for optimal absorption and gentle digestion. It's the upgrade your routine's been waiting for. Shop Solaray Magnesium Glycinate on Amazon or solaray.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Nancy Grace]

So who would have seen Nancy? Likely a cohort. A compatriot of the kidnapper.

[Dave Mack]

Somebody crosses the border, they can Take off in any direction they want to go. This person claims that he or she saw Nancy Guthrie in Mexico.

[Nancy Grace]

Where is Nancy Guthrie? Is she still alive? Is she in somebody's basement or hidden away in an apartment? Is she eating? Is she sleeping? Did they give her her meds? This, as we learned, civilians have been asked in Mexico to search video. Will that be done in the Nancy Guthrie case? Joining me, an all star panel straight out to Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. Dave, the latest.

[Dave Mack]

Nancy, you know, you mentioned the search and we've got the FBI asking for help from citizens. They're asking for video, any video. They're really focused on this, trying to locate anything that leads to Nancy Guthrie. We know that at this point there has been little in terms of information that has been let out by the, the local sheriff, Nanos, the FBI being a little more open about how they're searching for things. As you see that video right there, that video is probably the most important we've seen yet, showing two and a half miles away, a car going back and forth away from Nancy's house. But Nancy, the FBI seeking help in Mexico is what we're hearing now and asking for videos there. So this is an ongoing, not cold at all kind of case. And it's just at the point now where you're going, what could possibly happen next? Where do we go now? We've got to get help from the public, guys.

[Nancy Grace]

You're seeing video that nanos first said was unrelated, but that now is being analyzed over and over. Also, we understand that the FBI behavioral analysts are reviewing the porch video to determine what they can learn. This as the ransom note is being searched, studied to determine what, if any, clue it can give. Straight out to Scott Eicher, former FBI with the cellular analysis survey team, homicide in Norfolk, Virginia, now with precision cellular analysis. Scott, I'm very concerned about why the ransom notes have not been released to the public as Dave Mack was describing. So much evidence being kept close to the vest. I'm sure you recall the case of the unabomber. Ted Kaczynski, he terrorized the country for years with bombs. The Unabomber. And it was only when his manifesto was published in the New York Times did someone, his brother, identify his phraseology. He knew immediately that was his brother. Why has the FBI kept this close to the vest? I don't try to figure out what nanos is thinking, but wouldn't it help if that was released if in fact the ransom notes are legitimate?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

That's the first question, is the. Are the ransom Notes legitimate. And we could obviously say those letters from the Utah bomber, his manifesto, were related to him. There was enough information there to say, yes, this is our bomber. Now we can release it to try to identify our suspect. And that worked out great. We had a family member say, I recognize that. That's my. My crazy brother. Okay, now, looking at the case here with Nancy Guthrie, do we actually really have a ransom letter? Do we have a one that's actually been, you know, tied to the kidnapping? Or do we have a bunch of fake ransom letters, people just trying to get money? So the first thing is realizing or being able to determine, yes, this is a real ransom letter related to the case. And you can prove that you would start working that hard. First, when you get to the end and you say, I can't figure out who this guy is based on the letter, then you ask for the public's help.

[Nancy Grace]

To Brian Fitzgibbons joining us, Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, leading a team of investigators around the world, including extractions from Mexico, looking for missing people. Former Marine, Iraqi war vet. I'm wondering why they are not releasing the verbiage in the ransom note. They don't know whether the ransom note is connected or not. Have you considered the possibility, Brian, that at the beginning this was a ransom, a kidnap for ransom, but that at some juncture they could no longer offer proof of life? So they offered details about Nancy Guthrie's room and the inside of her home, possibly what she was wearing, because they could not send valid, that is, video or photo proof of life any longer. Have you considered that angle? And if so, wouldn't releasing the ransom note be of great help? The way the manifesto in Kaczynski was a great help? I mean, think, think. Even in the JonBenet Ramsey case, the vernacular, the word, the verbiage that was used, the word hints. How many people do you know, except maybe me, occasionally use the word hints? Hints, that is like waving a red flag to a bull. Might as well take out an ad on Third Avenue in downtown Manhattan. Who uses that? So that is an example then. Another great example would be BTK by torture Kill, where he taunted, taunted police and local media. His typed, written letter of taunting was traced back to its typewriter. And trust me, it's not just the key. The key itself. Even with a type ball on a, let's just say IBM Selectra, the ribbon can give you the ransom note or the note sent. There are a million ways to track a ransom note. So help me, Brian Fitzgibbons Why hasn't the FBI released the ransom notes?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

I'm not surprised by this at all, Nancy.

[Dave Mack]

I. I don't think that the FBI

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

has anything to gain by releasing this. And I'll explain that for two reasons. One, compare it to Ted Kaczynski's manifesto that was released in 1995.

[Dave Mack]

That was 35,000 words.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Okay?

[Dave Mack]

So the chance of somebody seeing an ideology connecting that back to a person

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

with 35, 000 words is very probable.

[Dave Mack]

The JonBenet Ramsey letter, that was handwritten, right? There might be somebody who recognizes the handwriting in this case.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

These were short missives sent digitally to tmz.

[Dave Mack]

The FBI doesn't want to cloud this with copycats being created or with that, you know, as they verify this, they

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

don't want that those pieces of information that were specifically in there being released to the public.

[Darren 'the Dude' Rosa]

We saw some things at the home that were concerning to us. We believe now after we process that crime scene, that we do in fact have a crime scene, that we do in fact have a crime. And we're asking the community's help.

[Nancy Grace]

If you know or think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free 8002-2553-2480-0225-5324 or if you wish to remain anonymous. 5208-8274-6352-0882, 7463. There is a 1.2 plus million dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. An arrest, much less a conviction, is not required for you to get the reward. We remember American hero, Captain Cody Cork, U.S. army Reserve Command. Just 35 killed in a drone strike, Kuwait. American hero, Captain Cody Cork, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, Smith.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethenny Frankel from Just Be with Bethenny Frankel. Let me be blunt. Most dog food is junk. It just is. And I'm not feeding junk to Biggie and Smalls. That is why they eat just food for dogs. It's real, 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. Not mystery pellets pretending to be healthy. And once I switched, the difference was obvious. Better digestion, better skin, more energy. Dogs who actually feel good instead of just surviving dinner. Here's the thing. You care about quality. You make an intentional choice to be healthy. So why are you gambling with your dog's health? So let's think about our furry babies. Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code. Just try it. Because once you see the difference, you're not going back.

[Dave Mack]

Flag football is exploding and IFLAG is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Holder. IFLAG hosts premier flag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, IFLAG delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game. Ready to be part of it? Join the movement, find your tournament and learn [e-mail] that's iflag.org Busy work weeks

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet works at the cellular level to rejuvenate you from the inside out, providing real results that include fat focused, sustainable weight loss with no injection needed. NextGen builds on the original Prolon with 100% organic soups and teas, a richer taste and ready to eat meals. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute and backed by top medical centers, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolic health, skin appearance, fat loss and energy. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you [e-mail] that's prolonlife.com iheart

[Bethenny Frankel]

most people believe that childhood should be about curiosity, freedom, figuring out who you are, and even running a little bit wild. But for many kids living with medical challenges, the experience is more like hospital rooms, medical treatments and rules about what's safe. That's why legendary actor and philanthropist Paul Newman founded Serious Fun, a network of medically supported camps and programs that give kids living with serious illnesses the chance to, as he put it, raise a little hell. At Serious Fun Camps, kids get to experience the thrill of flying down a zip line, participate in talent shows, sing songs around the campfire, and make lifelong friends who truly understand their journey. And thanks to skilled volunteer medical specialists and staff, every activity is tailored to each child's unique health requirements to ensure they have the experience of a lifetime. Best of all, camp is always free for campers, their families. This is where you come in. You can help deserving children experience the freedom and fun they never thought possible to get involved. Visit serious fun.org that's serious fun.org.