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Crime STORIES WITH Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother Nancy Guthrie Missing Day 44 what do we know tonight? What are the latest developments in the search for Nancy Guthrie? And why are people piling on the Savannah Guthrie at the possibility she may try to go back and work to try to resume her life with her family and her children? Why is she being attacked I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave what's the latest?

Dave Mack (2:51)

Nancy it appears that the FBI has been able to get additional thumbnail pictures and video from Nancy Guthrie's home. We're talking about from the roof and other cameras that actually cover the side of the house and the backyard and the driveway. So all of the area around the house actually is covered in video and picture form. But what we're being told is that this video, these pictures only cover the. I'm trying to remember the exact order here, but they don't actually show anything out of the ordinary. And even though they show time right up until the time Nancy Guthrie disappears, and they show time after Nancy Guthrie is gone, the time period in question where we believe she was kidnapped and taken from her home, no pictures or video from that time. There are pictures of people that are walking around the swimming pool area in the backyard. And if you remember, the FBI investigators spent a lot of time around the pool. They looked along the edge of the pool and in the area around it, spent a lot of time out there. Now we've got pictures documenting who was out there, but by the way, only up until the time Nancy Guthrie went missing and after the time she was reported missing. So we've got a blackout of video and pictures that we don't see anything. We actually, believe it or not, have pictures of police officers who arrive and do the initial investigation just after 12 noon the day she's reported missing. But we have nothing for the preceding 12 hours or even more than that. So there's like a blackout of that time period that's been the biggest news. And the there are people seen in pictures, there are people seen in videos, but none of this is going to be released to the public, as law enforcement says has nothing to do with the case. So whether or not we ever see these pictures, I don't know. We'll have to just wait and see. But there has been other activity surrounding the Nancy Guthrie case. There's, as always, there's so many rumors. It gets really crazy at certain times. But. But the cameras that are on top of the house and around the house are really the biggest important part of the investigation right now. The other part that we have talked about, the wifi, the wifi jammer, okay. Because we do have like a blackout period around the time Nancy Guthrie disappears, the time she vanishes. It's like from, you know, 145 to 230am Wi Fi goes down in her house. We also have the next door neighbor behind her house. Okay. There's a house that actually faces their front yard, faces Nancy Guthrie's backyard and swimming pool area. Well, those are the people who actually said their dog started acting up that night around 2:30 in the morning. This is a dog that doesn't bark at night, sleeps through the night, doesn't cause any problems. And that when they went and checked their video feed to see, hey, what's going on out there? Why is our dog barking? The dog was barking towards Nancy Guthrie's backyard. And none of their doorbell cameras, their actual security cameras, would connect with the Internet. Now they have four cameras. Two facing towards Nancy Guthrie's house and two facing the front of their own house. The two facing the front of their own house worked just fine, no problem. There it was. The two cameras that were pointed towards the backyard of Nancy Guthrie. Those were the cameras that, that would not connect to WI Fi, would not connect to the Internet. So they didn't get any kind of signal from what was taking place between 2 and 2:30 in the morning. But their dog was going crazy. So that's another of the, the things that we're actually spending time on today. But just a quick review, Nancy. We've got thumbnail pictures and video from the FBI that they're not going to give to us. They have them in thumbnail form. I don't know why that is, but they're not going to show them to us, as they say, they do show people before Nancy Guthrie's disappearance walking around the backyard and in the driveway. And they show time after. But none of the time in question between say 1:30am and 2:45am nothing from that time period shows up on these new video slash pictures that the FBI is presenting. Also the Nancy, the Uber driver that picked up Nancy Guthrie picked her up at 5:32pm and was taking Nancy from her home to her daughter Annie Guthrie's home. It's not a long drive, it's a 10 minute drive, you know. But immediately after this case broke, Sheriff's department sat down with the driver. They interviewed the driver of the Uber. The Uber driver turned over all the video from inside the vehicle. This was looked at by the investigation. They found nothing of substance, of anything of Nancy Guthrie in the vehicle, anything she said, her demeanor, nothing was mentioned. They interviewed the Uber driver at length. And again, there was nothing to report. It was just a regular pickup and drop off. Remember, Guthrie only took the Uber leaving her house and going to Annie And Tommaso, Annie and Tommaso, a family member dropped Nancy Guthrie off at 9:48. So that's the tie up there. But again, the Uber driver video has been given to law enforcement. They haven't released it to the public.

Nancy Grace (8:36)

Straight out to Scott Eicher joining us, digital forensics expert, founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey team, who has taken an integral role in the search for Nancy Guthrie now at Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott Eicher, what do you make of it?

Scott Eicher (8:55)

Well, Nancy, the. The video that they can get from Uber drivers not only faces the passenger, but also faces the direction of where the car is going. These are all things that we have learned that can be helpful to investigations. We've, we've had murder cases where we, you know, tracked a phone or something or a car into the area of the, the homicide. And we were able to pick up, you know, from the Uber's cameras, faces of people as they were walking by license plates of vehicles that are in the area. So initially, when we think about this Uber driver, it's just a ride from Ms. Guthrie's house to Annie's house. That's not the time of the crime. So maybe, as they said, this is not related to the case and it's not very helpful. But if you think about it, we've always got to think about what other cameras were being. Are in the area at the time that Mrs. Guthrie went missing or before, you know, when there was daylight or when she was coming home, stuff like that, because there are cameras and cars that are passing through. So these are very important things to make sure that we get, like the Uber driver that we got that took her to Annie's house? Not relevant as we can figure out at this point, but other cameras passing through that area in cars.

Dave Mack (10:23)

What about the images from Nancy's cameras before and after the abduction, but not the day of what could possibly have happened that would prevent us from having those pictures.

Scott Eicher (10:36)

If you remember back when we first got the porch camera guy video, that was a big deal because Cast had really worked hard with the Nest group, which is actually Google. Google owns Nest. And we got them to dig back through all that data to try to find anything that those captures, those cameras had sent to Google. And we knew it wasn't preserved because he didn't have a prescription. But we were able to see that Google still had the data, hadn't been deleted yet. So we got those images of the guy walking forward to the camera on the front porch. Well, I think, and this is speculation that we've just kept pushing Google. Hey, you've got to see, there's. If there's other cameras, we need more information from those cameras. This is what we all we have, really. Right. Other than DNA that we're waiting for, cameras are the best thing that we have at this point in time. So I think they pushed Google really hard to go back and look at other camera information. At this point, all they were able to get is these thumbnail photos. Very small, if you know what a thumbnail is. Very small photos. And they're just around specific times. You know, we do know that it's at the daylight and not at night. We know it's around the pool. We know it's around the backyard and the side yard. All would have been very helpful if we had those thumbnails pictures at the time of the crime. But there was a blackout during that time, or at least some sort of blackout. Either there was the suspected WI fi jammer that the suspect had, which could be a, you know, a viable option if he's that smart. And second, it could have been just an Internet outage during that time frame for the neighborhood. We also know that there was, as you mentioned, the dog barking and the cameras from the house behind Nancy's unable to get any video during that time frame. So that could all indicate either a blackout, a WI fi jammer, or just bad luck. You know, it sure would have been nice to have additional images of things going around the house at that time.

Dave Mack (12:53)

Could the lack of images or lack of information during this blackout period help with the timeline?

Scott Eicher (13:00)

Yes, it can. In that aspect, we see, you know, things happening. We don't know what time's going on, especially with that porch camera. Right. We don't. There was no time frames or time stamps on that porch camera. So we don't know when that guy was walking up the first time with the backpack or when that extra picture we had of him without the backpack, we don't know when that happened. We suspect that it's obviously on the night that she went missing. But this blackout timeframe could narrow down the times that we see that. We can narrow down that when the guys were there. Right. If there's a blackout or there's, you know, just missing data. We see that in guys that are doing robberies, they turn off their phone when they're doing the robbery, but they forget to turn off their phone when they're casing the joint a week ahead of time. So that's a kind of good thing. Even if we get to a point that we're at a jury and we see we can explain to the jury, hey, this is why we know this time frame. They were there because they blacked out the wi fi.

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Dr. Bethany Marshall (17:49)

I'm for it, Nancy. I think they're attacking her because they have basic envy towards her. She's beautiful, she's lovely, she's kind, she's surrounded by siblings who love her, she has a big career, she has a family. And that stirs up a lot of envy and hatred and people who feel they cannot make good lives for themselves. So I believe that they're looking for any time, tiny little thing, any chink in the armor, you know, as long as she's crying on tv then, then they feel, well, she's one of us, right? She's normal, she cries, she, she has tears like we do and they don't feel that she's better than them. But then when she goes back to an 8 year old, a 10 year old, an incredible work family, an incredible career, all of a sudden they might think, wow, she has a bigger, better life. I am going to attack her. What am I going to attack her for? She left Mommy. That's it. And if it wasn't that, they would be attacking her for something else.

Nancy Grace (18:52)

What about this, Dr. Bethany, the aspect of schadenfreude where you take joy in somebody else's suffering? I think, of course I'm not a shrink like you. That part of that is you think up reasons. And I find this in regarding crime victims. People say, critics say when they're victim blaming, well, I would never go jogging in a jogging bra. I would never go jogging at 9 o' clock at night. I would never wear a short skirt in a bar. I would never drink by myself. I mean the list is endless because it makes them, the critic feel protected, like that horrible thing will never happen to me because she or he fill in the blank. It's very odd, the victim blaming to make yourself feel more secure. There's that and then there's the schadenfreude which is taking joy and glee in somebody else's suffering. So how does that play into the way people are treating Savannah?

Dr. Bethany Marshall (19:54)

Well, if you take pleasure in somebody else's suffering, you can say, it's not me. That's the not me. That's somebody else. That will never happen to me, and it'll never happen to me. I would never just go out jogging in shorts. I think you're right. There's creating a sense of the world is a safe place. If you don't wear shorts when you go out jogging, then you won't be raped, you won't be hurt. But I think about Savannah Guthrie. She has created an empire, and she's kind of like the girl next door. I mean, she's very lovable, she's very straightforward. I know she's a friend of yours. And when we human beings attack another person, it's related to loss of faith in the self. And what I mean by that is, if we feel that we can have a big career, we can have children, we can have a husband, we can create the things that we want in our life, then we don't have to be angry at somebody else for having it. But if we've lost faith in ourselves, we have to tear everybody around us down and hope that they'll be, like, at the bottom of the pit, worse than us.

Nancy Grace (21:01)

Well, the way you phrase that is kind of scary, but it has the ring of truth to it. I want to tell you what happened, Dr. Bethany. I may have told you this before. My fiance was killed when I was in college, shortly before our wedding, he was murdered. Years later, of course, I dropped out of school. I had been studying English literature to teach at a college level or university level to teach Shakespearean literature. And that dream was destroyed. I ultimately went back to school and as you know, on to law school to be a victims rights advocate. Years later, of course, I prosecuted for three years. I was the Fed for three years. And then as a violent crime prosecutor in inner city Atlanta for over 10 years. Well, after that. Go with me. The time frame is important. I ultimately go to Court TV, then CNN's HLN. This all took years. Years in the works. Okay. I flew down from New York to Atlanta to visit my family. And I had taped that night. Live wasn't tape, it was live, our HLN show. I hadn't eaten since the day before dinner. So I met members, guests like yourself that were here in Atlanta that had been on the program that evening. By now, it's like, I don't know, 9:30pm and we went out for Cajun. And I was sitting there. Somebody said something funny. I started laughing. A guy that I didn't recognize came over to our table, Bethany, and said, I'm a friend of Keith's, your dead fiance. And I don't think it's right that you're sitting here laughing after all the suffering and the pain, all those years of reliving Keith's murder and that. And when I see people online attacking Savannah because she might go home to her children and she might try to resume her life, it's evil. Bethany, why are they doing that to her?

Dr. Bethany Marshall (23:28)

I think, again, as I keep saying, the idea. Let's think about you eating Cajun and you're enjoying yourself. And that it. The person that says, I don't think you should be laughing because I know your fiance died, can not imagine that. You worked through the grief. You've transformed it into your life's work. And by the way, you haven't gone too far from your roots because everything we talk about on this show is Shakespearean. So you're still doing the same thing you set out to do. But that person does not have the. Did not have the capacity to imagine that you're surrounded by loving family. Perhaps you're starting to date. You have a. You have the capacity to recover, Nancy. We all have the capacity to recover from almost anything, whether it's being molested as a child, being abused. We can transform those experiences into a very wonderful, meaningful life, especially if we have good community and good attachment systems. And for this guy to see, you know, you're sitting there with a group of people and you're laughing and you're enjoying your life. He might have. I keep going back to basic envy. He might have been envious at the fact that you knew how to live a good life. He may have known that you were on HLN or known that you were on TV and that that stirred up resentment in him.

Nancy Grace (24:55)

I know there's not a right or wrong answer, but how? First of all, I believe that keeping yourself busy when you're, you know, slipping into a morass, when you feel yourself going into a depression. I'm a believer in activity, in doing something positive. Get up and go change your scenery around you, even if it's just going outside to walk or run, attack a project, do something other. Don't just sit there to get your mind beyond where you are. And I think her going back to work is a way to do that. Of course, I'm an armchair shrink. You Know what I'm talking about? You can verbalize it much better. And, of course, being with her children, I can't imagine her being away from her family this long and what it must be doing to her.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (25:52)

Nancy, those children have needs, okay? They are vulnerable, just like her mother was vulnerable. And there are millions of families throughout the United States, many of whom are watching your show tonight, who have children with needs and an aging parent. Look, you have that in your own home. You have teenagers who have needs, and you have your mother living there, and she has needs, too. But a part of being a good parent to young kids, or in your case, teenagers, is that you balance the needs. I once saw a patient whose mother had a stroke, and she became so anxious about the mother's stroke that she sat day and night beside the mother's bed, crying, weeping, wailing, missed her own children's high school graduation, did not take pictures for them at their prom. She was so preoccupied with a mother's health. She had sort of a mommy complex that she neglected her own children. We don't want Savannah to be like that. She has to balance everything, just as you do and millions of other parents do.

Nancy Grace (26:58)

And, you know, the demands. Well, not really demands, because, believe it or not, my twins, they never really ask for anything, you know, like objects. But there's a constant pull, and I don't know how you can. While we've been sitting here, Lucy just texted me, mom, urgent. I need a photo of me dressed as a banana and me at a fire pit. I don't know what that means, but that said, it's, like, constant. I don't know how you turn that off. So how will Savannah be able to do this emotionally and mentally? To sit on the Today show with millions of people watching her, keep herself composed and ask people questions about their book and a recipe and politics and world news and everything that's happening in the world.

TikTok Commentators (27:51)

How do you.

Nancy Grace (27:51)

I compartmentalize. Probably in an unhealthy way, but it's the only way I can do it. How? What do you advise her to do?

Dr. Bethany Marshall (28:00)

Well, first of all, 50% of people who return to work after a break anticipate that it will be a negative experience, and one in three develop some kind of a mental or psychiatric issue initially because the cognitive load is so, so much. So when you take a break from work, often it's because you're not doing very well, you have a medical leave, your doctor's written you out because you have a major depressive episode or maybe on a positive note, you have a baby, so you have to take. So when you go back into that work environment, you have this huge cognitive load of doing your job and being away from a more relaxed atmosphere. Well, maybe not having a baby may not be more relaxed, but maybe where you've been at home or you've been on a vacation. So what I would advise for Savannah is that she reintegrate slowly, like have an rwp, a return to work plan, which is very common. I would advised that she set up what we call safe zones when someone reintegrates back into work, meaning that she's able to close her office door. She's able to maybe when the makeup artist is doing her makeup, that the makeup artist is instructed not to, like, jabber on to let Savannah have her own thoughts. And Nancy, you know, because of the work you do, and I used to be on Good Morning America for about 10 years as. As a psychological expert, the host has to integrate a huge amount of information and be able to talk about it knowledgeably. Sometimes, you know, the PA or the assistant will give them several articles to read, and then they have to hold on to that and make a story out of it and ask the appropriate questions. And she's going to be preoccupied with her mother. So I would say that she would have to cover stories that are a little bit easier, like you said, baking recipes. And certainly she should stay away from covering any kind of story that has to do with abductions, crime, missing persons, because that's going to re trigger the trauma.

Nancy Grace (30:11)

Well, you know, Savannah's not just an on air reading a prompter. She's a lawyer and really, really intelligent. So I don't see her shying away from very intricate stories, detailed stories. I just. I hate that people are attacking her for going back to work when that may be something that helps her compartmentalize and move forward. Well, one way that Savannah could be consoled is if we could crack the case and give her answers. Dr. Bethany, thank you. In light of the fact that Pima county sheriffs are releasing so little information regarding the investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, online conspiracy theorists and beyond have been reduced to coming up with their own solutions as to where is Mrs. Guthrie. Let's start with the reality TV crew did it.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (31:20)

Here's my Nancy Guthrie conspiracy theory. So I heard earlier today that the Pima county sheriff's office was involved with a reality TV crew. It was a show about Pima County. I think that the reality TV people are involved in one of two ways. They got down there and realized that the Pima County Sheriff's office is not interesting enough to make a reality TV show about. So either they were going to go a long way to create some drama, or the sheriff was going to go a long way to create some drama.

Nancy Grace (31:55)

See, I could watch her all day long, all day and wonder about what's going on in her head. That's a very unique theory. That is from Veronica and the Baby Boo on TikTok. I think I need a shrink. A shrink and a drink. But since I don't drink, I'll have to go with just the shrink. Joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, Dr. Bethany Marshall, author of Deal Breakers. You can see her now on Peacock and find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com. Dr. Bethany I understand the reticence for admitting you're a fan of certain reality TV shows, but to blame them for Ms. Guthrie's disappearance.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (32:37)

Well, you know, conspiracy theorists almost always believe that there's some nefarious group that has banded together for some secret purpose. But in this case with this woman, she believes she has some superior or unique way of looking at the situation. It's. It's also based on something called confirmation bias. Nancy, Confirmation bias is when you develop an idea and then you keep looking for data to confirm that idea. So she may have had, you know, woken up some morning with this little idea in her head that there was a reality TV show that they were concocting. And then she keeps looking for clues to bump up her theory and to convince herself she's right.

Nancy Grace (33:22)

Yeah, you know what? You pointed out something very interesting. Once you get hell bent on a theory, then suddenly you find yourself making all the facts fit into your theory. Now we're showing you Desert Law from A and E, and I assume that is the reality show she's talking about. Next thing you know, she'll be blaming the Kardashians. But it. I will have to give her this. Bethany, it is an unfortunate turn of events that the Pima County Sheriff's office is involved in a reality show in the midst of the search for Nancy Guthrie. So I understand Veronica and the Baby Boo's concern. Okay, here's another one. Blaming a, quote, semi famous EDM house music person. What is edm? It's kind of a high energy electronic sub genre of dance music. It's a repetitive four on the floor beat. Anyway, listen, I think a semi famous

Dr. Bethany Marshall (34:32)

EDM house music person is the one

TikTok Commentators (34:37)

who took Nancy Guthrie because of the

Dr. Bethany Marshall (34:42)

location of where they were the night before and the Night into the kidnapping. Also, a video from 2017 on their Facebook page is the exact gloves.

Nancy Grace (34:56)

Dr. Bethany, help me. That's from Carissa unmasked on TikTok. Have you ever had a client. I've had this happen in court where somebody looks really, really intelligent and they act very intelligent and they are articulate and they look you in the face and they emphasize the right words and they are crazy.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (35:19)

Yes, because this. This tendency towards believing in conspiracy theories is associated with a personal desire to feel superior, to feel unique, to feel above everybody else. So these people tend to be very. We think of narcissism. They tend to be very kind of grandiose, charming, beautiful. They tend to put themselves together so they can be very convincing Nanc. They actually believe their own lies. And when we think of the EDM and confirmation bias, let's say maybe she's involved in the dance world, maybe she's a musician, maybe she likes nightlife. So she has just enough data to pull her theories together and make them sound quite convincing.

Nancy Grace (36:06)

There is the famous quote that a little power is a dangerous thing. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thing. Okay, now here we're going into an alternate universe, Dr. Bethany. An alternate universe where only this Tick Tocker knows that Nancy Guthrie has already been found and that we're just playing out some kind of drama on the air.

TikTok Commentators (36:29)

Listen, has anyone else experienced this Mandela effect yet? Because I feel like I'm going crazy. I thought that Nazi got three was found. Because we have this TV in the lobby here. It's always on the news. That's the only time that I ever watch the news. And, like, I don't even really watch it. It's just kind of background noise. And when I was here, I remember hearing them say, oh, you know, she's a little shaken up, She's a little scared, but she's safe. And those are the exact words I remember remember them saying. And I look up and I'm like, oh, cool, they found her. And they're like, yeah, she's been found. She's scared. She's safe, though. And everyone was happy. And I was like, oh, this is so great. And then I come back the next day and I see on the TV that it said, oh, they're putting out a reward and she hasn't been found yet. There's been no updates, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, it must be an old. Like an older episode of whatever this is. And it's just rerunning that news segment. And they were. I Was, like, waiting for them to cut to, like, oh, yeah. But now, you know, we found her and it never happened. And I Google it, and she still has not been found.

Nancy Grace (37:48)

That's Horror Mommy on TikTok. And I want to clear something up. I don't necessarily think these tick tockers are crazy. I think that they have grabbed a thread of the facts and they have started to unravel it in their own way. Now, my point of discussing this with you is, Dr. Bethany, that this is just a tiny taste of what the 911 dispatchers are dealing with when they said, please don't send us your theories, your premonitions, for Pete's sake. Definitely not your premonitions or your questions. They don't want that. They don't want to hear this. Also, the fact that we have so little information makes people. They want to seek justice. They want to find Nancy Guthrie. So I think our horror mommy on TikTok, what she actually heard was part of the ransom note that was sent to Harvey Levin at TMZ that said, she's alive, she's shaken up. She's scared. Now give me Bitcoin. Right. I think that's what she heard and extrapolated in into. She's fine. Okay. Before you pass judgment on Horror Mommy on TikTok, here's a person that thanks Savannah Guthrie, our old friend from Court tv, now the Today show host, that Savannah is being held hostage.

Savannah Guthrie (39:16)

Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping that. I thought this was more than about money, more than about a ransom. I felt like Savannah Guthrie was being held hostage by people. And I think it has to do with her husband at FGS Global. Used to be Glover Park. He's a D.C. fixer. He's been a D.C. fixer for the Clintons, General Petraeus. It was in the Epstein files, of all things. And it's just no coincidence that a day after the biggest Epstein file dropped that her mom gets kidnapped. Let's go through it and see what we've seen. In my last video, I compared two photos which the FBI has said is from the night of the kidnapping. On the right is one that we're very familiar with. And you can see how the light is very bright. The moon is out. It is the snow moon. It was 99% illuminated at 1:47-2:30am it was peaking at 3:09am on the left, a photo is included. It was pitch black because the moon was not out. This photo was taken probably three weeks prior, between January 9th and January 11th. And I have a question. Why did the FBI put that photo in with the rest of these photos in their tweets? And as much as I love the comments, he's not wearing the same thing these nights. He's got no backpack, no gun. The shoes are different. The jacket is different. The face mask seems different. It's a different night, different clothes. Probably the same guy because the build looks the same.

Nancy Grace (40:34)

Actually, Common sense gay on TikTok ain't half wrong. And Nanos could have used him at the get go when Nanos was suggesting that both of these videos were on the same evening and would not confirm they were, in fact, different evenings. I, however, do not believe that Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping has anything to do with Savannah Guthrie's husband. What he does for a living. Savannah absolutely is not being held hostage. Okay, Bethany, this is one you may need to step in on. Okay, you need to throw this person a lifeline because they really believe that Nancy Guthrie is teleporting. Now, hold on, one more thing. You heard the last tiktoker talking about a snow moon. I had to investigate that, and he's right. It's a moon. It's a native American phrase for a certain moon. Comes in February, typically before it snows. So that guy, common sense gay, has done a lot of research and maybe could help Nanos a little bit. Okay, now I got you have to hear the teleporting theory. I'm not typically a big conspiracy theory person.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (41:47)

I like to hear about them, but

TikTok Commentators (41:48)

I don't often actually believe them until

Nancy Grace (41:52)

I read a comment on my recent

Dr. Bethany Marshall (41:53)

Nancy Guthrie video suggesting that Nancy. Nancy could be teleporting.

Nancy Grace (41:58)

So this conspiracy is that we can't

Dr. Bethany Marshall (42:00)

find Nancy Guthrie because she's actually teleporting.

TikTok Commentators (42:04)

Like, kind of Stranger things vibes.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (42:06)

Maybe she's teleporting into the upside down.

Nancy Grace (42:08)

Maybe she's teleporting to Paris. We don't know.

TikTok Commentators (42:11)

When I read this, I was laughing

Dr. Bethany Marshall (42:14)

because, like, obviously she's not teleporting.

Nancy Grace (42:19)

But then the more I think about

TikTok Commentators (42:20)

it, the more I'm like,

Nancy Grace (42:24)

I don't know, guys.

TikTok Commentators (42:25)

Like, what if she is teleporting?

Nancy Grace (42:28)

Okay, I do know. Ray Shapiro on Tick Tock. Nancy Guthrie is not teleporting. I just pray to God she's alive. Do you, I assume, read. You read all the Harry Potters? I read every single one to the children. And then we would watch the movie. You know, Harry Potter teleported? It was something called the power of apparition. What is happening? Why are instead of actually trying to help find Nancy, this is happening.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (42:58)

Well, you know, Nancy, each of these conspiracy theorists is driven by something slightly different. So the teleporting person, basically, she's. She has a preference for relying on intuition rather than critical thinking, which may give her a sense of knowing more than others about her snow moon guy. I kind of like this guy. He. You're right. He has done his homework and he makes some really good points. And porch guy is, you know, obviously there on different nights. But what I think he's trying to do, in all of his intelligence, I think he's trying to put order in a very chaotic situation to find a sense of safety.

Nancy Grace (43:37)

You know what? I like that theory, Dr. Bethany. When you try to make sense of something, you're applying logic to what seemingly is an illogical situation and you come with up with crazy theories. I can't say the same for the teleporting theory. Now, okay, listen to this. It's Nancy Guthrie. 84 year old Nancy Guthrie, secret lover. Listen, my theory, my opinion is that Nancy was abducted by a boyfriend or a friend that is a boy, a man of her own. Not an obsession with Savannah, not anything to do with. With anybody else but Nancy. I am not an intuitive. I'm not anything like that. I don't know anything other people don't know. I just want to speak into the universe that my theory is. This is about Nancy and her friend or boyfriend and maybe he hired somebody. That is from Abby and mom TikTok. Dr. Bethany Marshall, and I want you to hear this. First of all, there's no indication that Nancy Guthrie had a love interest. Her husband passed away when Savannah was 16, as I recall. And I don't believe she was dating anyone. Mrs. Guthrie couldn't even walk past 50 yards, which makes her, you know, it's like to kill a mockingbird. Picking on the weakest in our society. Taking this mother, this grandmother out of her bed in the middle of the night. That was from Abby and mom TikTok. But I want you to hear proud shrimper daughter. Her husband, his last name is Feldman. He worked for the Clintons the eight years they were in office. Okay. He started a company called Grover Park. Basically what they were, they were scrubbers. They would scrub the Internet of any bad, anything bad that they did not want the public to find out. They would scrape the whole Internet. So where, when you did a search, you couldn't find out anything about it. How much you want to bet because the Clintons are going in front of congress that they struck out to this guy because he was their cleaner. Proud Shrimp, her daughter 4 on TikTok. See, she's taking a lot of truisms such as there's testimony going on in front of congress right now. Did the Clintons have their reputations, let's just say, fluffed up a little bit online. Mrs. Guthrie is missing. Savannah's husband works for this firm and puts it all together in kind of like a collage.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (46:16)

But also, Nancy, there's an understandable wish for security and safety. A lot of people are suspicious of the government, and so she feels she's a part of a special group, people who know what's happening in the government. And because she knows she has again put her world in order. So horror mommy, remember the Mandela effect. That's a whole other group of people who believes that time can bend. So she's a part of that group, which gives her a sense of safety, security and belonging. They want to rely on their own intuition because it puts themselves at the center of their own world. And lastly, Nancy, the woman who believed that Nancy Guthrie was taken by a boyfriend or a husband. I saw a little girl with some wishful thinking that mommy and daddy are. Or she's. She's having, you know, she's having a romantic getaway somewhere, like kind of trying to turn something really horrible and tragic into something hopeful and optimistic, which is, you know, at the end of the day, it's a very disturbed way of thinking. But you can see the wish embedded in the theory that it's really better than. Than we know it is.

Nancy Grace (47:26)

Okay, we've all. If you've looked online, if you've read about the case, know that a private plane took off from nearby Nancy Guthrie's home on the night that she is kidnapped. Okay, here is a tiktoker that took that tidbit of information and turned it into a full blown conspiracy theory.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (47:46)

I had heard that there was a flight that left early Sunday morning and

Patti Wood (47:52)

went to Puerto Vallarta. A private plane that left Tucson and

Dr. Bethany Marshall (47:57)

went to Puerto Vallarta. I just went to FlightAware to make sure that it really was there.

Patti Wood (48:03)

And there is a flight that leaves at 4:50am to Puerto Vallarta.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (48:11)

That plane had gotten to Tucson the night before at 5:33.

Patti Wood (48:19)

So that's already weird, you know, like

Dr. Bethany Marshall (48:21)

leaving at 4:50am to go to Mexico. But the fact that. That you got in the night before

Patti Wood (48:27)

makes that 4:50am flight seem really weird.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (48:31)

Anyway, I started digging into this tail number. The tail number is C, G, N, T, Z and I started looking at

Patti Wood (48:42)

the history of where it's been flying to and from.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (48:46)

And it's been back and forth, back and forth From February, from February 1st to February 7th, it's been back and forth from Puerto Vallarta five times.

Nancy Grace (49:00)

That's from Lindsay Russ Purper on TikTok. And I am not even going to throw a stone at Lindsay Russ Purper on TikTok. Our research team could use this girl. Okay? Did you see how much research she put into that private plane? Hey, I'm fine with her. I want you to hear this one. That the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie is really just a big distraction so we don't think about other things like the Epstein files and Iran. Guess what? I'm thinking about all of that.

TikTok Commentators (49:30)

Listen, am I the only one who feels like the surge of media surrounding Nancy Guthrie is a distraction of some sort? Like you know how in 2007 when the Britney Spears court cases were going on and she shaved her head and all that crazy stuff was happening and there was this big conspiracy about how there was a bunch of government activity that was like shrouded over or by this court case with Britney going on. What if the same thing is happening with Nancy Guthrie? And I do want to say it is extremely sad what is happening with Nancy. It is extremely Sad that an 80 year old woman was kidnapped from her home and is missing. But why is her case getting so much media attention when there are so many things like her case happening on a daily basis that get nothing, no attention whatsoever. What's going on that we're not seeing? What's going on that they want to deter our eyes from?

Nancy Grace (50:47)

That's from Cora is kind of crazy on TikTok. And you know what? I'm with her as far as distrusting the government. And I don't care if it's the Republicans or the Democrats. They all lie. They all lie. No wonder she distrusts the government. And I want to make clear that the plane our last tiktoker was talking about there was such a hue and cry over that private plane that it was actually investigated. They are not a suspect. I don't know why they were flying to Mexico at 4 o' clock in the morning and back and forth and frankly don't care. What I do care about is Nancy Guthrie was not on the plane. Now distrust of the government. I'm not going to go live off the grid with my shotgun because I'm a distrusted government. But she's not half wrong. I don't think Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping is part of a government plan to distract us. But I get her distrust of the government. Dr. Bethany.

Dr. Bethany Marshall (51:46)

Part of a plot for the government to distract us. But this is a conspiracy theory that has been floating around quite a bit. And I would say that in this particular case, this conspiracy theory, she's putting herself, like Mandela girl in the center of a group who may have some superior way of looking at the world. So it's a way to bolster self esteem. But another fact, Nancy, is some of these conspiracy theorists assume that because it's a big event, it has a big cause. This is a big event in our nation, in our life. It's ripped through families. We're all talking about it, but that doesn't mean there's a big cause. But it could be that something very minute or small or unfortunate happened that has burgeoned out into all of this. So big events don't necessarily have big causes. But conspiracy theorists do want to think that.

Nancy Grace (52:42)

We have learned that at this hour, an entire team of FBI behavioral analysts are reviewing every move made by the porch guy as we have called him to determine what, if anything, they can learn about his identity. Joining me now, renowned in her field, Patti Wood, body language and behavior expert, president of Communication Dynamics, Inc. And author of Snap. Making the most of First Impressions Body language. Pattiwood, thank you for being with us. Let's take a look at the video and figure out what, if anything, we can discern. And trust me, I have used body language in cases. Specifically, Patty. The first one I can recall was a bank robbery. My first ever bank robbery. And I noticed the defendant was slew footed. He walked like a duck. Trust me, Patty. When he ill advisedly took the stand, every juror hung over the rail to watch him walk. And sure enough, he walked like a duck.

Patti Wood (53:49)

Busted.

Nancy Grace (53:50)

Amongst other evidence. And then I had a serial killer that was a chef, and he walked with a drag. He pulled. It was very subtle, but he pulled his right leg behind him with every step. He was a little slow with the right leg. These things matter. And sure enough, that was the perp. Now, I can't wait to hear your analysis of everything you see in this video. Let's show the video to the viewers as she speaks. Okay, Patty, the floor is yours.

Patti Wood (54:26)

All right, now, this is when he's covering up the camera. And I want you to notice he's having to go look for something to cover it, which is in dissonance in great contrast with how he's armored up, has the mask on, has these Heavy, heavy rubber gloves. I want to come back to that point. And this backpack loaded. And here he is using a paper, a plastic bag and some plants to cover up the camera. As if he not pre planned that part of the process, which is very, very unusual. I also want you to notice as his hand movement. He is not scared, his hands are not shaking. He is purposeful. I'm going to get something, I'm going to cover it up. And notice how slow his movements are. Again, he's not showing fear. There's just a deliberate purposefulness. And it's interesting that his pace is not hurried at all. Does that make sense to you? That's so interesting.

Nancy Grace (55:30)

It makes perfect sense to me. He seems very methodical. Pattiwood. I hadn't really thought of it that way.

Patti Wood (55:36)

And if we look at that other shot of him actually entering the doorway, let's talk about that specifically. As you show it. I want you to look at his straw. Look at how broad his stride is, specifically the step up. His feet are very far apart. That's about at least 14 inches, if not more. And again, that's something men specifically do. Broad stance, broad walk. When they're purposeful, when they don't have fear, there's no hesitation that that shows a pattern of strength that I think is interesting. Now let's also talk about his backpack. And I have a visual aid for that because think about your kids coming home from school with their backpacks and they're weighted down. So we're talking about a weight in that backpack that's significant. And if you look at how his back is bent over and his head is bent over, what's in that backpack that he won't open to find something over the camera that tells me he's not going to open that backpack outside in view. But there's so much weight in it, there's so much bulk that it's bending his body over and he has to have those wide straps. Can I talk about the straps for a second? Interesting.

Nancy Grace (56:53)

Yeah, hold on. I just want to throw something in right there. I thought he was looking down so less of his face would be shown. But you're connecting it to the backpack because the backpack is packed to the brim.

Patti Wood (57:06)

Two things, it's the weight down, pulling his head down, but he does actually move his head to the side as he approaches the doorway, which shows he doesn't want to be seen. So it's a combination of both things. And again, there's a contrast between pre planning having all this equipment but having reflective straps on the backpack, which would make him more visible. It shows that this is a conflict of this is not necessarily a professional. But he planned. But he didn't plan fully with all the insight you think someone in this situation might show. And again, we have that glove. That's an unusual glove. It's heavy duty. And it's a glove that you would wear if you were afraid of attack, even a knife attack. That's how thick the plastic or rubber is on those gloves. And that shows something that actually makes me more fearful and uncomfortable, as does the heaviness of of the backpack. What the heck is in there?

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Nancy Grace (59:24)

really quickly at American Military University. They're ready to help you keep up. AMU's flexible, affordable online programs in cybersecurity, IT, space studies and more are designed for service members, veterans and their families. AMU provides the support you need to take the next step wherever life takes you. American Military University Built for what? What's next? Learn more at AMU Apus Edu that's AMU Apus Edu. When your schedule sounds like this, Are you kidding me? An oil change is the last thing you have time for. So drive into take five and let our 10 change your oil, check your tires, top off your fluids and have you back on the road pit stop fast. All while you stay in your car. No putting your entire schedule on hold. No upsells, no problem. So you can get back to your to do list or not. Find your nearest shop@take5.com take5 the stay in your car 10 minute oil change Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Patti Wood joining us, body language behavior expert, president of Communication Dynamics Inc. And author of Snap Making the Most First Impressions Body Language and Charisma. She is@pattywood.net Patti, what do you make of the polyester holster and his mannerisms as they relate to what I believe to be a semi automatic gun? Yes.

Patti Wood (61:08)

And he's definitely giving what's called a man up gesture where he's getting ready for battle, getting ready for fire. But it's also man up around a male pelvic region that sometimes males make a touch in that location as they're getting ready to fight or they're getting ready.

Nancy Grace (61:28)

Patty, look around. You're not having high tea with Charles and Camilla. This is Crime Stories. His penis. Go ahead.

Patti Wood (61:39)

So, so as he puts his hand over that sexual organ, he's manning up. And it's a gesture men do when they're getting ready for battle. Going into a fight, going into a battle. Sometimes I see it when men at low level go in for sales or negotiation, and sometimes I see it in men that are primping before they go into a hot woman and hit on her. So. So the fact that his hand is there and the weapon is there shows us he's manning up. He's getting that confidence to fight, to hurt someone.

Nancy Grace (62:13)

PATTI wood, I've seen it with defendants that are coming into court and they're about to approach the podium where I'm going to take a guilty plea and read them their rights. I've seen it a lot on basketball courts before somebody goes in or when they're in the huddle, they're constantly grabbing themselves. That means something.

Patti Wood (62:35)

Exactly. If there was no weapon there, it would be more protective of, I fear, the attack on my manhood. But in this case, because it does look like a weapon, it does show that he's ready to hurt. He's ready for battle.

Nancy Grace (62:49)

Patty, I'm very curious about your thoughts regarding the mask.

Patti Wood (62:54)

I find that one of the most interesting aspects of this because you and I have analyzed so many criminals, so many robberies, so many crimes like this. But the mask is a ski mask. And think about the location. This would be out of context. If anyone saw him in this, they would go, this doesn't match. There's no reason for him to have this on. So that choice to cover the full face, go over the neck tells me that this person wants to make sure that no part of their face, no part of their neck is shown and they're willing to Take a risk of wearing something that could visually identify them as a danger. So that's very interesting. Also, it's interesting if you look at this particular shot here, how much of the mouth it covers, but the fact that the eyes are very visible. So he is staring in that minute. I so wish I could see his eyebrows. I so wish I could see if there's any indication of fear or anger of intent, you know.

Nancy Grace (63:57)

Another interesting point, Pattiwood, as the temperatures in Tucson went all the way up to 82 degrees that day, yet he is fully covered. Fully.

Patti Wood (64:09)

It doesn't make sense. So that tells us he really wanted to hide his identity. And yet it's interesting. Have you noticed the baggy pants? The baggy pants on him? That tells me that that's. That is his attire, that's the way he might go out in the world with a bagginess around his hips, and that he's not in alignment with fashion, he's not aware of his body in a particular way. Does that make sense? And I'm saying this because in the context of a robbery, I often see the person with pants that are very tight to the skin, and there's a indication freedom of movement, that stretchy kind of pant to create freedom of movement. But here he's wearing pants that are awkward, hang on him awkwardly, as if he might have to pull him up, which tells me, or at least hints to me that he's not used to thinking about having to wear a tire for this particular situation or that he's

Nancy Grace (65:17)

carrying things in the pants and the jacket, such as a lock picker and. Or a walkie talkie and. Or a signal jammer, because he's got every crevice packed right.

Patti Wood (65:32)

And he's definitely got something extra in protective wear in the front of his body. And you can tell that he's not used to have having all that weight or packaging up front. It tells me that there's some other protective wear or some item at the front of his body. And I'm saying that also because of the width of his arm is thinner than the weight and packaging up here, the normal weight and fat distribution here. And also it's creating a little bit more weight at the front in addition to that packaging, the backpack on the back. So you can see there's something right here.

Nancy Grace (66:15)

So, Patty Wood, you're the expert. Based on your knowledge and all your years of expertise, who is this guy?

Patti Wood (66:23)

It's someone that's planned this but hasn't planned it. Well, it's someone that hasn't done this before, thinking they're prepared, thinking they've taken everything into consideration but is not fully prepared and yet they've planned it ahead. It's in their heads that they can do this. They're not afraid, but they're not a professional.

Nancy Grace (66:49)

If you know or think you know anything about the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie, please dial the FBI at 1-800-225-5324 toll free 800-225-5324 or if you wish to remain anonymous 5208-8274-6352-0882, 7463. There is a 1.2 plus million dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. 1.2 plus million dollar reward. And remember, there doesn't have to be an arrest or prosecution in order for you to get that 1.2 plus million dollar reward. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend.

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Nancy Grace (69:02)

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Dr. Bethany Marshall (69:44)

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Nancy Grace (70:23)

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