Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Day 6

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Day 6

Release Date: February 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Nancy Grace investigates the ongoing disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of NBC’s Savannah Guthrie, now missing for six days. The episode centers on the latest developments, public pleas from the Guthrie family, analysis of crime scene evidence, and debates on investigative procedures. Grace is joined by an expert panel: crime reporter Dave Mack, forensic analyst Jeffrey Gentry, digital crime expert Todd Shipley, and former homicide detective Chris McDonough. The discussion blends technical detail with compassion, driving home the urgency and complexity of this high-profile case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Family’s Heartbreaking Plea and Emotional Toll

• Cameron Guthrie’s Direct Appeal:
  • [03:59] Cameron Guthrie (audio statement): “Whoever is out there holding our mother, we want to hear from you. We haven’t heard anything directly. We need you to reach out and we need a way to communicate with you so we can move forward. But first, we have to know that you have our mom. We want to talk to you and we are waiting for contact.”
• Nancy Grace underscores the emotional devastation seen in Savannah, Annie, and Cameron, and rebuffs speculation that any family member could be involved in the disappearance.

The Ransom Note(s) and False Leads

• Timeline & Demands:

  • [02:45] The first ransom note issued a demand for 5pm with a threat, followed by a subsequent ultimatum two days later.
  • [36:00] Multiple fake ransom notes (including at least one resulting in an arrest) have “bogged down” the investigation, consuming law enforcement resources.

• Interstate Commerce Law:

  • [34:43] Nancy Grace explains how sending ransom demands across state lines—via text—qualifies for prosecution under federal law:
    • “When this guy sent a text across US Airwaves to Savannah for a ransom, which is a violation of the law, that's interstate commerce... That’s how they got the guy arrested in California so quickly.”

Crime Scene Evidence and Analysis

• House Entry Timeline & Camera Removal:

  • [06:35] The timeline is critical; the perpetrator removed the front door camera mere minutes after Nancy Guthrie returned home, suggesting deliberate planning.
  • The door camera disconnects, followed by a 20-minute gap, a spike in Guthrie’s pacemaker at 2am, and then no further direct evidence.

• Forced Entry and Forensic Mistakes:

  • [24:28] Forensic analyst Jeffrey Gentry explains:
    • “They took things from the home, like the camera. They made mistakes by leaving blood stains behind... Every single contact leaves a trace—that’s one of the foundations of forensic science.”
  • Detailed recommendations to recreate the perpetrator’s path through the house, looking for trace evidence.

• Bloodstain Interpretation:

  • [42:00] Gentry elaborates on blood evidence outside the home:
    • “Those are 90 degree blood stains, indicating that they were created when somebody is standing upright and bleeding... If she did fall and was injured in some way, I don’t see any transfer stains.”
  • [44:17] Gravel disturbances and blood into blood patterns suggest Nancy was upright, guided (or supported) out the door, possibly indicating two perpetrators.

Technology, Polygraphs, and Investigative Tools

• Use of Celebrite/Ufed Device:

  • [09:46] Chris McDonough breaks down its use: “It’s a mobile device that you can bring to a particular scene... able to download forensics evidence... from devices such as computers or phones.”
  • [11:38] Nancy Grace strongly advocates that every person close to the victim should submit to a polygraph, expanding the net to housekeepers, delivery people, and even “the Sunday school teacher.”
  • [12:46] McDonough notes the presence of an Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) unit at the scene is unusual, possibly relating to a parallel digital investigation.

• Phone and Camera Data:

  • [17:57-21:11] Todd Shipley explains law enforcement may have focused on the family’s electronics not just to search for nefarious activity, but because modern devices and apps (like Ring, Lyft, Uber, or Life360) can share location and surveillance data across multiple family members’ phones.

• License Plate Readers & Surveillance:

  • [23:00, 37:28-38:48] “Old school meets new school”: License plate readers, red-light cameras, technology data dumps, and traditional neighborhood canvassing all play crucial roles.

• Issues with Security Camera Footage:

  • [49:27] Dave Mack reports that while cameras were installed inside the home, their subscription only kept footage for eight hours; by the time police responded, no relevant footage remained.

Motive, Suspect Profile, and Victimology

• Expert Suspicions & Motive:
  • [39:22] Nancy Grace: “The motive is clear. Have I missed something? They said give me millions in bitcoin, quote, or else. I think that's the motive which leads me to: has anybody hit Nancy Guthrie or her family up for money?”
  • [39:57] Chris McDonough advises not to rule out any suspect profile. However, he believes perpetrator likely crossed paths with Ms. Guthrie: “There is an association between the victim and this offender. And to your point, Nancy, somewhere in this circle of influence... this offender is familiar.”

Search Efforts and Forensic Challenges

• Release and Re-entry of the Crime Scene:

  • [33:25] Experts criticize police for releasing the crime scene “prematurely,” exposing it to contamination. Nancy Grace: “You ever tried to try a case when the scene’s been compromised? It’s hell. It’s like the golden lottery ticket for the defense.”

• Physical Search and Tracking Methods:

  • [50:20] Drawing from previous cases, Nancy advocates for the use of canines – both tracking and cadaver dogs.
  • [50:49] Chris McDonough affirms that U.S. Customs and Border Patrol K9s are trained specifically for these scenarios: “The fact that those dogs are there, Nancy, they’re really stepping it up because those dogs are really super good at what they do.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“When I look at those three, I just don’t see it. Or maybe I’m blind, but I’m rejecting that.”
— Nancy Grace, on the possibility of family involvement [06:35]

“Every single contact leaves a trace—that’s one of the foundations of forensic science.”
— Jeffrey Gentry, forensic analyst [24:28]

“I do not believe at this juncture that that is the case here. I want to defend them.”
— Nancy Grace, defending the Guthrie family from suspicion [10:19]

“All the communication is one way. It’s coming from the kidnappers to them. They have no way of contacting the kidnapper or kidnappers at this point.”
— Dave Mack [05:32]

“[The UfED] can get deleted texts, emails, IMs. It can get encrypted.”
— Nancy Grace [10:13]

“If you’re not willing to take a polygraph, to hay with you—you’re now on the suspect list.”
— Nancy Grace [48:41]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:59] – Cameron Guthrie’s plea
• [06:35] – Discussion of family involvement and camera removal timeline
• [09:46] – Explaining Celebrite/Ufed in crime scene investigation
• [11:38] – Nancy Grace calls for mass polygraphs
• [17:57-21:11] – Digital evidence: apps, sharing, and data collection explained
• [24:28] – Forensic approach to the scene; every contact leaves a trace
• [33:25] – Debate about premature crime scene release
• [34:43] – Law and fake ransom notes; interstate commerce crimes
• [36:00] – Media attention hindering investigation; fake ransom note arrest
• [37:28-38:48] – Old school investigative methods
• [42:00-44:17] – Bloodstain and gravel evidence analysis
• [46:35-48:01] – Pacemaker as evidence and its limitations
• [49:27] – Failure of home camera system to retain evidence
• [50:20-51:26] – Use of K9 units in ongoing search efforts
• [52:40] – Call to the public for tips and FBI reward announcement

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Conclusion & Calls to Action

The episode closes with a recap of the active investigation: new ransom correspondence is under review, the crime scene is being revisited, and there is an urgent call for information to the public. Nancy Grace repeatedly emphasizes the power of traditional police work, digital forensics, and community vigilance—all while keeping the hope for Nancy Guthrie’s safe return alive.

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If you have information about Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance:

• Call the FBI: 1-800-CALL-FBI
• Pima County (anonymous): 520-882-7463
• $50,000 reward for leads leading to recovery and conviction

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Final Thought from Nancy Grace:

“Please, again tonight, join us in prayer for the safe return of Nancy Guthrie.” [52:40]

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Transcript

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[Nancy Grace]

Stories with Nancy Grace.

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The rational note that was distributed to the media did make a demand for 5pm today.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

And if a transfer wasn't made, then.

[Chris McDonough]

I think a second demand was for next Monday.

[Nancy Grace]

We're not going to go beyond that.

[Todd Shipley]

But that was the ransom note.

[Nancy Grace]

The media received the suggestion that time is up for Savannah Guthrie's mother. But the perp issued another ultimatum. Another deadline coming up in two days. Breaking news. Savannah Guthrie's mother missing. Day six Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories and want to thank you for being with us. With me, an all star panel. Each one an expert in their own right. Straight out to crime stories, investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave Mack, Heartbreaking watching Cameron Guthrie's plea. This on the heels of sister Savannah. As a matter of fact, for those of you that have only seen our friend Savannah Guthrie's agonizing plea for her mother to be brought home, I want you to hear Cameron Guthrie's plea for his mother to be brought home.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

Listen, this is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family. Whoever is out there holding our mother, we want to hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need you to reach out and we need a way to communicate with you so we can move forward. But first, we have to know that you have our mom. We want to talk to you and we are waiting for contact.

[Nancy Grace]

Are they going to have to go old school to find Nancy Guthrie? I'm talking about dogs, drones, looking at the area, how far could she have gotten? Are there two or more people involved? This, as many speculate, the perp is within or close to the family. But I just want to tell you. Let me go straight out to you, Dave Mack. I find it very, very hard to believe. Let's see a shot of Savannah with sister Annie and brother Cameron as they were making plea. I find it very difficult to believe, Dave Mack, that the brother and the sister and Savannah could sit there begging for the return of their mother while secretly wondering, hey, is cousin Larry part of this? I mean, knowing something of that import, I. I don't see it, Dave Mack. I mean, I know what the statistics say. I know the statistics Say look to those closest to the victim. But just looking at the three siblings, I don't see it. Dave Mack. Or maybe is it. I don't want to see it.

[Dave Mack]

Nancy. It looks to me like they don't consider it somebody that's very close to them. But Nancy, in all probability, the person or persons involved in this had access to that house before. Now, that leaves you with gardeners, people that come by to help out with things around the house. There are a lot of people that had access to that house and they would have been familiar with camera placement and things like that that you've mentioned before about the granny cams. So there are a lot of people beyond that close family friend group that would have had access to that house. And maybe that's why you're seeing. They just look devastated to me. The whole family does. And all the communication is one way. It's coming from the kidnappers to them. They have no way of contacting the kidnapper or kidnappers at this point. They've been given no communication way of reaching out. That's why Cameron said, we need to know you've got her. We need K and we need you to reach out to us to tell us how to get up with you. They don't know who it is, but it could be somebody they've seen a lot.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Dave Mack, you're right again. A lot of speculation swirling about a family member somehow being involved. But when I look at those three, I just don't see it. Or maybe I'm blind, but I'm rejecting that. This, as the theory has swirled of a really sinister plot to go into the home and remove the door cam. The front door can, let's see a shot of where the door cam would have been, like coming in, for instance, through the back door, coming through, reaching out the front door and yanking that off. So you, the perp are not pictured on the door cam and then waiting. Because if you look at the timeline. Now, let's see the timeline, please. If you look at the timeline, there's about a 20 minute gap. You've got her coming home from dinner in mahjong with Annie and the son in law. Okay? Then the garage door closes and we assume she's entering through the kitchen door from her garage. Then look at it. The door cam disconnects on the front door. Then you've got about 20 minutes. Did they yank off the door cam and wait to see if police would arrive? Now, Dave Mack, correct me if I'm wrong, please, because these times are Critical. Wasn't there a spike, a noticeable spike in her pacemaker, her heart monitor? At 2am There was.

[Dave Mack]

There was a noticeable spike at 2am so you're talking about 13 minutes after the camera is pulled down and that 13 minute window. You know, the first thing that happens when they're checking on somebody is a phone call. Are you okay? That's usually what happens with home security systems. And then if nothing there, then the police at 2 o', clock, we, I believe anyway that that's when the kidnapper or kidnappers were actually in her room and putting hands on her, getting her up out of bed.

[Nancy Grace]

Straight out to Chris McDonough, our longtime friend and colleague. He is the director at the Cold Case Foundation. Former homicide detective with over 300 bona fide homicides under his belt. Also host of the YouTube channel the interview Room where I found him. Kris, thank you for being with us regarding this whole theory that the family is involved in some way, which I reject. I'm putting it out there. You and I have talked privately about. You Fed. You Fed. It's a Celebrate system. It's mobile and it's carried in a box. Usually it looks like a, you know, a messenger boy bag or a briefcase that you wear over your shoulder that was seen being carried out of the family home. Explain what the Cellebrite U Fed does in a nutshell. Don't go DEFCON 4 on me.

[Dave Mack]

So.

[Chris McDonough]

Well, there's a couple of things that it does. You'll. It's a mobile device that you can bring to a particular scene, in this case the house, and then you're able to download any type of forensics evidence in the house from devices such as computers or phones, cell phones, et cetera. And then that information is immediately available through some software that Celebrate has to the investigators on the scene.

[Nancy Grace]

It can get deleted texts, emails, IMs. It can get encrypted.

[Dave Mack]

Correct.

[Nancy Grace]

And it really came to the forefront of a national knowledge, our bubble of knowledge during the Alex Murdoch trial when a Secret Service witness took the stand to explain how it was used in that case. And it worked. This is what I'm thinking. That witness that observed the agent coming out with the U Fed, it was like, you know, pouring gas on a flame. The suggestion that the families involved, number one, the families always scrutinized first. Statistically, they are involved. I do not believe at this juncture that that is the case here. I want to defend them. So that is not out of the ordinary. This is what I think they should do. Chris McDonough Everybody take a polygraph. Everybody. Everybody in the family. All the granny nannies. Everyone that worked with her in her yard, in her driveway. The handyman, the instacart person, the pizza guy. All of them. Even the Sunday school teacher. Yes, I said it. Submit to a polygraph. What do you think about that? Chris McDonough. And then anybody that says H double no, they're at the top of my suspect list.

[Chris McDonough]

Yeah, I think almost immediately that's not a bad idea. And I think that could be a path. But you can take Savannah and the brother off of that list right away. What the anomaly is in that U Fed problem here is who brought it to the scene. And that was the ICAC team. Internet crimes against Children. So this could be a whole other lane that's not even being looked at here. That is kind of a one off from the actual abduction of Ms. Guthrie.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, put him up. Are you saying that now we're investigating a crime on a child? Are you actually saying that?

[Chris McDonough]

I. I'm saying that. Well, I'm saying it's possible there could be. Yes. Yes, it's possible.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. No, no. They had the Celebrex, so they brought it over. Now, if I'm asking you to bring over some case files, do you put on a crime stories T shirt? No, you come in what you're wearing case. Saul. No, no, I don't think. You know what? Take him away. I'm gonna let you sit there and think about what you just said. What? But, but, but, but, but, but what?

[Chris McDonough]

I'll tell you here. Here's the deal. When you have a major case like this, and I've worked many of them, and you run across something, you go, what is this? Okay, you don't have the ICAC people show up with their U fed. That just doesn't happen. That is a secondary problem that they potentially could have run into. It may not be involved with Ms. Guthrie in any way, shape or form. However, these guys did show up. And they don't show up to search for missing 84 year old women. That's my point.

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[Nancy Grace]

Stories with Nancy grace. Who are we looking at? Number one, I'm calling for polygraphs. Savannah guthrie knows exactly what's going on right now. Savannah is not only a sweet, loving, sincere person. I know because I worked with her. I've seen her under all sorts of stressful conditions. Nothing like this, of course, but she knows the law people like the back of her hand. And I guarantee you she'd be the first one to get in line for the poly to make everybody else do it. So what do we do now? Todd shipley is with us. Digital cybercrime expert, former Detective Sergeant Reno, 25 years in law enforcement. Author of surviving a cyber attack. Author of investigating Internet crimes. This is your bailiwick. The whole u fed celebrite. What do you think is going on? To me, it's sop standard operating procedure. Instead of carting all the family's laptops, their. Their desktops, their phones, everything out, they just did a ufed. That's what I think happened, Todd.

[Todd Shipley]

I don't think you're incorrect, Nancy. I think what happened is it's who's available at the time. So you've got a major crime, and somebody could have been on vacation or something like that. And they said who's got access to and who's trained to use the tool? And so the icat guys go, we're here. We can show up. What I think happened, though, is the reason they focus on the family, if they did at that time, was keep in mind things like ring cameras. And those other cameras can share the videos to other people. And so they may have been trying to find other evidence on those phones from the family's phones that was shared by the ring camera at the house. So there's a lot of other things that explain why this occurred. It wasn't that there was some other crime occurring. The family may have had evidence that they wanted to look at the uber receipts, all the other things that were going on. They're trying to build a background around what happened, and it's on phones because we've talked about this many times about how the phones have everything about our lives. And it's going to describe the mother, too.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, you listed. And I really like this idea. Todd shipley. Other things, when I think of a u fed cellebrite, I think of cell phone. I think of an iPad, a desktop, a laptop. You're saying there are other devices as well that can be factored into the ufed, not just those devices. Such as what?

[Todd Shipley]

So what we're talking about is the apps on the phone, because you can share those apps with other people. And so I can share my ring camera app with family, friends, whoever I want to share it with. And that may have been on the phone. And that's what they're looking for. They're looking for the Uber connections, they're looking for all the apps that were used to build a background about what the mother did beforehand.

[Nancy Grace]

But how would looking at their devices and their laptops and so forth help them establish what Nancy Guthrie did?

[Todd Shipley]

Because you can share everything. You do Uber. You do an Uber. I can share it with a family or friend that I did it. I can share the camera itself and let other people see what's happening at my house so I can get the notifications and get information. And that may have been what's on their phones. It's not something nefarious. It's just that all these things can be shared between phones now. And they could have had the images or some other things, maybe even the pacemaker. I don't know how the pacemaker, this particular one worked, but it could have been shared across other devices so that people knew she was in trouble.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, I've got an example to boil down what you just said. And I found like parables that this made more sense to juries. Okay. We have granny cams at our home because of my mother. My 94 year old mother lives with us. My husband has the app, I have the app, our children have the app. So you're saying that for instance, if the feds came and did celebrite on me, they could get anything I shared with my children, such as Life three, six, Bart, they're on my Uber. Eats. They're on my Uber. Is that what you're saying?

[Todd Shipley]

Exactly. And live360, you know, is a great example of one of those things that are shared commonly amongst family to track and identify where people are at, especially a vulnerable senior. That's an important thing to understand where they're at. And so the family wants to know. So their apps are going to be tracking what's going on with.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, what if they had a family phone plan? Do you know about those? How a group of people. Okay, explain that. Would that be included?

[Todd Shipley]

Well, it could potentially. It just depends on the settings that you as the user set up or the owner of that Family plan. Now, some of those things, those family plans, you know, share the text message and share all those things. And you can, as the owner of the plan, can go in and see activity, certain activities depending on what's happening. So those are other technologies that, you know, the law enforcement is going to be looking at to see the behavior before and after the incident.

[Nancy Grace]

So bottom line, Todd Shipley, if they could, you fed, and I'm using that as a verb, celebrate the family's information, they could then at the same time capture any shared information apps that were shared with Nancy Guthrie. Correct?

[Jeffrey Gentry]

Correct.

[Todd Shipley]

Exactly. That's, that's why the celebrate was there. They were looking at every phone.

[Nancy Grace]

Got it. And just an example, Todd Shipley, of how important that is. The Brian Coburger, ID case, we know that there was a delivery. I think it was a DoorDash around 4am 3:30am 4am because we saw it on one of the victim's phones. That's how important this is. I'm thinking about how to go old school to find Nancy Guthrie, starting with LPR's, license plate readers, red light cams. Yes. Jeffrey Gentry joining us, forensic certified blood Stain pattern analyst, Senior crime scene Scene analyst, death investigator, author of Blood Stain Pattern Analysis, author of Forensic Science Applications to Death in Crime Scene, author of Death Investigations Information to obtain during a forensic death investigation. It goes on and on. Let's talk old school. We've heard over and over from mainstream media that nobody's door cam could likely catch anything because as the houses in that neighborhood are set far off the street and there is a lot of foliage, trees, you name it. That's why people want to live there. You have a secluded. Look at all the. Can I see that aerial again? Look at all the trees, the foliage around each home. I see what they're saying, but those streets, Jeff Gentry, have to have to pour out somewhere like the stream to the river, like the river to the sea. There's an outlet somewhere. And at that outlet, I guarantee you there's a red light. Bam. What about it?

[Jeffrey Gentry]

I completely agree. At this point, six days into this investigation, if you do not have a suspect and you do not have a solid lead, you can't just sit around and wait. I know we have tons of people working on this. You actually have to go out, like you said, get old school. You have to rely on traditional police work and you have to rely on science to solve this crime. This is not your typical criminal. It's not somebody that has made huge mistakes. They probably didn't have Their cell phone with them, where they're going to get cell tower pings. They're not making major mistakes like you see in a lot of crimes of passion. This is obviously planned out. This is not your typical crime. But you see that they did make mistakes. They took things from the home, like the camera. They made mistakes by leaving blood stains behind. So when you're talking about forensics and science, you think about every single contact leaves a trace. That's one of the foundations of forensic science. Every single contact leaves a trace. So when this person was preparing for this crime, they left forensic evidence when this person was traveling to the scene, they left forensic evidence when they broke into the home. And we're talking about forced entry. A lot of people don't know what forced entry means. It means like a door was either pried open, a window was broken, somebody used some kind of a mechanism to unlock a door. So that's what forced entry means. So they're leaving behind evidence. Looking at the front door, I don't see any fingerprint dust. So what I would do in this case is I would scrap everything, start from scratch, recreate this whole event, Try to think about how this criminal got in the home, walk their path. How did they interact with the victim? Walk their path. Did they sit down somewhere? Did they touch things? Did they wash their hands? Did they eat something out of the refrigerator? All of these contacts inside the home and with the victim can leave trace evidence. It could leave fibers, it could leave fingerprints, it could leave DNA. You can't rule anything out in this case. Even if they've released the scene, they can still go back in and use blood enhancing chemicals like Blue Star in the dark to see if blood stains may have been wiped up or maybe small blood stains that got disturbed during these contacts. You have to think like a criminal in these cases. How did this person get in? How did they exit the door cam? Most of these door cams, you can't just pull them off. They require some kind of special tool to get them off. So was there some kind of a scratch or did they leave a fingerprint behind when they were reaching through the door to remove this camera so it wouldn't see when they're walking her out? Like we mentioned before, there doesn't really appear to be a struggle at that front door. We know that she was bleeding. We know she's standing there for some period of time. We believe that she was upright and walked away because the nature of the blood stains. But why didn't she fall to the ground? But what was the reason that she left that home without being dragged away or carried away? There's no evidence that she was murdered in the home to. So why did she leave? You have to think about all these things. You can't rely on, you know, assumptions at this point. You have to recreate everything and figure out where this person messed up. Because this criminal did mess up somewhere and they will be caught.

[Nancy Grace]

One thing I've been wondering and I'm projecting, it's really hard to pick up my mother, who's very light, she's 94, and move her anywhere without her walker. Very hard. Now, Nancy uses a cane. Is her cane missing? Did she have a walker that's used at home? Is it missing? Did they take that? If they didn't, I'm wondering if there had to be two people to help her walk.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

Jeffrey, that's very possible. I think about my own mom when we're looking at this case because she's kind of built the same way. She has thin skin, she would bleed easily. And anytime that my mom has ever been in like physical distress or needed help or, you know, when she had knee surgery, I had to help her. Throughout the house, it's not easy. Even if somebody's not a very big person walking them throughout the house, they're going to be touching different things. They might fall down. So it's not an easy thing to do. And if you're trying to remove cameras, if you're trying to get out to a car quickly to leave the scene, they're going to be touching things, there's going to be things disturbed. I want to know more about what's inside the house. I would love to know that and I would love to see this scene. I would love to see the area, I would love to walk around door to door, ask neighbors again, what did you see? Every little piece of information is going to be critical at this point.

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[Nancy Grace]

Stories with Nancy Grace. Police bringing out devices, bringing out evidence, they're swarming it still. This is from our friends at Kold. The search was called off for a period of time. Then it resumed. Much has been made about law enforcement releasing the crime scene and then having to come back to the crime scene. Does anybody on this panel disagree? They released it prematurely. I didn't know what they were thinking when they did that.

[Chris McDonough]

I think that was a mistake.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

You have everything that you need. It's not uncommon to release a crime scene and it's not uncommon to go back to a crime scene after it's been released. After you bounce ideas off each other. Like for example, I think that they should probably go back in there again and open up drains, take every single device.

[Nancy Grace]

As I have said many times, they release a crime scene and everybody and their little sister could go over there and poke around those photos of the blood that was taken by media. That's not right. No, they should not have released that crime scene because now it's been totally compromised. You ever tried to try a case when the scenes being compromised? It's hell. It's like the golden lottery ticket for the defense to claim, oh, that wasn't there before, it was planted and so forth and so on. Can we get back to the ransom notes? We all know by now all you legal eagles know that a fake ransom note was delivered by text to Savannah and I think her brother and or her brother and sister. That perp has been found, he's been arrested and he's going to be prosecuted under federal law. And the theory is he used interstate commerce. What does that mean? Anything that crosses state lines has been deemed by our Supreme Court to be use of interstate commerce. Either you're driving across state lines, that's interstate and you're using a vehicle and you bought gas. Hey, that's commerce. You may be using the phone, you Pay a phone bill, that's commerce. You may text, you may send a telegraph, a telegram. It doesn't matter if your communication crosses state lines or any way controlled by the federal government. You have used interstate commerce. Bam. Does that make sense to everybody? No, it does. It doesn't. But it makes sense to the U.S. supreme Court. So when this guy sent a text across US Airwaves to Savannah for a ransom, which is a violation of the law, that's interstate commerce. He has already been booked and he is in jail. We have also learned, Dave Mack, that law enforcement has said all the fake ransoms are bogging down the investigation. There's that many.

[Dave Mack]

You know, Nancy, this is one of those situations where the media interest, because people are so fascinated by this, mainly because of Savannah Guthrie, but also the fact that there's an 84 year old woman missing and it's got people going crazy. So, yeah, the fact that we know there are ransom notes, you know, we've had plenty of missing people cases that we've covered that didn't have ransom notes, but here we have them. So all the crazies have come out of the woodwork and they're flooding all the investigators have to take everything seriously. As they said from the very beginning, you know, before they even verified the first ransom notes we heard about, they were like, we are taking every tip, every call seriously. They have to. It's an investigation and that's what they've been doing. That's how they were able to get the guy arrested in California so quickly. They've already got him admitting that he, he sent the fake or that he sent the fake messages. You know, they had him tied down in a matter of 24 hours, Nancy. So, yeah, they're spending a lot of time on everything that comes into them, including fake ransom notes. Trying to take advantage of a bitcoin billionaire, you know.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I'm thinking about technology, about going old school to solve this case. When we say old school, Todd Shipley, you are reeling off a lot of must do's. What are they? What must be happening right now?

[Todd Shipley]

Well, from a technology point of view, what law enforcement is looking at is anything they can find where there's a record. They're looking at the tower records for all the cell phones in that area. Keep in mind there's always going to be a lot of records, but this is the middle of the night, so there'll be less. There's a good look at all the flock cameras and any cameras that are reading license plates in and around the area in throughout Tucson because they're trying to find any suspect that's moving at that time of night. And so that's going to limit the amount of people moving around. So I know they've already looked at all the ring cameras in the neighborhood. They're looking at all the records that they could find. Technology wise, they've gone through her phone trying to figure out other things that she's done that can could lead up to or precipitate something. Keep in mind, we don't know the contact she's had with other people. One of the things I talk about all the time with seniors and vulnerable people is that if you're not paying attention, they could get sucked into some kind of scam and you don't know it. So they're looking at her phone to find out if she was texting, Communicating with on WhatsApp, was somebody talking about bitcoin or something else and becoming more conversant with the kinds of contacts she had towards the end there. So there's a huge amount of value legal data they're going to get from the technology.

[Nancy Grace]

What about it?

[Jeffrey Gentry]

JEFFREY Gentry I'm curious about the motive. It is it really financial at this point? Because you have a person that has obviously put out there that they, they want money for this crime, but they haven't been in contact with the family since they haven't been in contact with law enforcement. So I think you have to kind of start thinking about doing some profiling in this case, trying to figure out who this suspect is and what actually is their intended motive and why haven't you heard from them? Why, why aren't they reaching out?

[Nancy Grace]

Well, I think the motive is clear. Have I missed something? They said give me millions in bitcoin, quote, or else. I think that's the motive which leads me to has anybody hit Nancy Guthrie or her family up for money? Is somebody in need, financial need that they know of? I would be looking at every single person and their husbands and sons that need money. Anybody with a record. They've already been looking at sex predators in the area. But it's not about a sex predator. I'm telling you that right now. Agree or disagree?

[Chris McDonough]

Chris McDonough yeah, I wouldn't take anything off the table, though, because she's such a low risk victim here. There is an association between the victim and this offender. And to your point, Nancy, somewhere in this circle of influence and you always do start with the family, of course, and you work your way out, this offender is familiar because if you look at the victimology of this particular woman here, you know, the, the offender risk of just arbitrarily showing up at, you know, 2 o' clock in the morning, ripping a doorbell off, breaking into a house, you know, taking an 84 year old woman out of that house and then saying, oh, by the way, I need bitcoin between 2 million. That tells us a whole bunch about the unsophistication of this particular perpetrator. So that means at some point they have crossed paths. If you look at this picture here with her sitting on that chair, look at her left hand. That to me, when I first saw that photograph, I thought, okay, did she fall going outside onto that porch? Because when you look at the blood evidence there, there's also a piece of the debris over on top of the blood and those are 90 degree droplet, which the other guests I'm sure would agree with. If you look at to the upper left hand quadrant, there is a debris on top of that blood. So I went back and looked at the news reports where they showed the evidence technician photographing that. And so does that tell us that the suspect was behind her and had kicked that debris on top of that blood and had she fallen and was trying to get back up, which would create those 90 degree blood droplets there? So I think there's a possibility that you do have to go old school. The technology is going to be a bonus. But somebody knew who Ms. Guthrie was.

[Nancy Grace]

Let's analyze what he just said about the blood. Jeff Gentry.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

So he's exactly right. Those are 90 degree blood stains, indicating that they were created when somebody is standing upright and bleeding. What I don't see though is any evidence that she was on the ground struggling at any point. So if she did fall and was injured in some way, I don't see any. They're called transfer stains and they look completely different than the 90 degree blood drops or the stains that you see there. And if she was on the ground actively bleeding and trying to support herself, trying to push herself back up, you would see evidence of blood transfer on the ground. You would see contact stains on the wall, maybe where she was trying to reposition herself. He's exactly right that the debris is on top of the bloodstains. So that gives you an element of timing. But I do know that the weather there in that area, I was told that it was, it's rather windy on a regular basis and so it's not uncommon for things to blow onto the porch. So it's possible that those debris items.

[Nancy Grace]

Were but rocks, gravel. I don't see wind blowing rocks or gravel. Little pieces of gravel. I don't see that. Maybe a leaf. So what is your analysis about? Is he saying debris? It looks like the gravel that was beside the ornamental gravel that was beside the walkway.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

There's an area. So if you look two bricks out from the wall or two tiles out from the wall, there's an area where there's multiple blood drops and then little tiny individual satellite stains. And I talked about this the other day, that that's. It's called a blood into blood pattern or a drip pattern. And that's where somebody is stationary. And the blood dripping into the blood source or the blood pool creates those little satellite stains. So that's. That's going to indicate that she was standing in that position for some period of time, dripping blood onto the ground. So actively dripping blood onto the ground. And then next to that, coming out one tile, you see what looks like possibly a footwear pattern in that. So whoever was assisting her or if she was wearing shoes.

[Nancy Grace]

Hold on. Where do you see a footwear pattern?

[Jeffrey Gentry]

A third tile out from the wall. There's several drip stains and then what looks like a footwear impression there or a partial footwear impression.

[Nancy Grace]

Jeffrey Gentry, what do you make of the gravel disruption?

[Jeffrey Gentry]

That could definitely be somebody walking through it or kicking it. Or like your other guest said, you know, if she was struggling in some way or maybe even trying to get away, that's. That's definitely possible that the gravel was disturbed there or whether we were trying to help her up if she fell or if she was injured or trying to resist in any way. But if she was on the ground actively bleeding, you would see different blood patterns to indicate that. I don't see anything that, to me would suggest that she was.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what it indicates to me? Just go with me for a moment. Pull back out, if you don't mind, on the picture. I want to see the picture at a greater distance. It looks to me like somebody's walking beside her and maybe trying to hold her up and they've gotten into the gravel. The gravel is to our right. It would be her left holding her maybe under the arm, and she's walking forward and somebody is on her left in that gravel. We know her cane was in the home, so she needs help walking. According to Jeffrey Gentry, who's a blood spatter analyst, she's upright and walking based on the blood spatter. So we know at least one person, if we're reading this correctly, is helping her out the front door or their two people. Another question let me throw at everyone on the panel. I've gotten a lot of questions on social about her pacemaker. And yes, I had thought about it. I researched it. I spoke to a doctor. There's no GPS in a pacemaker. That's the way I understand it. So we're not going to find her. Somebody even on Twitter tweeted me the novel idea of putting her phone, which was in the home, onto a dog and letting the dog with a handler go through the area and see if the pacemaker alerted. That would be a very rudimentary experiment. It probably would not work. But the point is well taken. Is there a way to track that pacemaker to the does anybody have an idea? Because what I've been told, the answer is no, there's probably not.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

I've dealt with pacemakers a lot because during the death investigations you have to remove people's pacemakers to have them analyzed so the doctor can do it in the office. But once somebody is deceased, obviously you don't take them to a doctor's office. So you remove their pacemaker to have it analyzed. But in her case, it sounds like it's still working and could possibly connect if her device is close enough. But I think it has to be within several feet or a pretty close distance to her and the pacemaker to get any reliable information from it.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, the other thing is, as I understand it, the pacemaker feeds information back to, let's say the doctor's office or the clinic or the pacemaker administrator. But you have to be near the device. The pacemaker doesn't send it out across the airwaves. You've got to be near the device. Like her device would be at home or it would be her iPhone that would count. The pacemaker in no way is able at this juncture to send information about her, whether she's had a heart event or where she is now that she's away from the Bluetooth at the home. Cannot trace her through that. Does a pacemaker continue to work post mortem? Anybody know?

[Chris McDonough]

Yes.

[Jeffrey Gentry]

Yes.

[Chris McDonough]

And they're designed, Nancy, for to report once a day to the doctor's office. Typically. I mean, the scheduling could be a variance based on the patient's history. However, they typically have to be near that device, that is the phone or an Apple Watch or something to that effect. And of course, now we know at least she was separated from that device around 2:27am or 2:28am so she could still that pacemaker could still be Functioning, but it's not reporting, so she very much could be alive.

[Nancy Grace]

So, Todd Shipley, you're telling me license plate readers, cell phone data dumps, obviously cameras at red lights for those early morning hours when there's less traffic. Any other polygraphs on everybody? And if you're not willing to take a polygraph to hay with you, you're now on the suspect list. Am I missing anything, Shipley?

[Todd Shipley]

Well, the cameras are going to tell a story. Whether it's going to have a complete story, as we know it's probably not. But there are going to be a lot of information that they're still trying to go through because you're talking hours of data.

[Nancy Grace]

And there were cameras in the home. Todd, There were cameras in the home. Hey, I want you to hear this fact. Dave Mack, tell them about the status of the cameras in the home.

[Dave Mack]

What we were told or what has been reported is that cameras inside the home that were there and they were placed at different angles to cover all areas inside the home so that they could be checked on by family members in case Nancy were to fall or become incapacitated, they could then see inside the home. It has been reported that, yeah, they didn't pay for the subscription service and so the cameras didn't record anything other than for eight hours and then it just continued to tape over. So there is nothing safe. By the time the police were involved, she already been gone.

[Nancy Grace]

Nothing. And very quickly, Jeffrey, what is the difference in the wide pattern of blood drops and the tight groupings? Is that where you're saying blood into blood? So she's standing in one place. What is that what you're saying? There's droplets and then there's satellite droplets?

[Jeffrey Gentry]

That's exactly right.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Chris McDonough, other than K9s, and if you'll recall, Chris McDonough, a K9, tracked Lacey Peterson from her home all the way to the San Francisco Bay. And she was in the back of a boat, we think, right?

[Chris McDonough]

Yes, ma'.

[Todd Shipley]

Am.

[Nancy Grace]

Far. So if she could be traced that way, I'm wondering why cadaver dogs can't at least give me a direction in which Nancy went.

[Chris McDonough]

Well, and that's where they the U.S. customs and Border Patrol canine teams, the BORAC team, was brought into this because those dogs are trained not only in tracking, but they may also have other dogs that are cross trained into the cadaver aspect. So they're going to put those dogs in a 30 foot lead and they're going to get some type of sense of inside of the house that belong to Nancy. Typically a shirt or rag, a shoe, something like that. And then they're going to let the dog run. So the fact that those dogs are there, Nancy, they. They're really stepping it up because those dogs are really super good at what they do.

[Nancy Grace]

Let me go straight out to you, Dave Mack.

[Dave Mack]

Nancy. Earlier today, Tucson TV station KOLD received an email having to do with Nancy Guthrie. The FBI is working to confirm if the note came from the same sender as the first reported ransom note referencing Nancy Guthrie. And officials caution it could take some time to verify due to technical factors. It still hasn't been verified that the first note came from someone who may have taken Nancy from her home. In a statement, the Pima County Sheriff's Department says the FBI and Pima County Sheriff's Department are aware of a new message regarding Nancy Guthrie. Investigators are actively inspecting the information provided in the message for its authenticity. While this is one new piece of information, the FBI and the Pima County Sheriff's Department are still asking anyone with tips to contact the FBI at 1-800- call FBI. The FBI continues to offer a reward of up to $50,000 for information leading to the recovery of Nancy Guthrie and or the arrest and conviction of anyone involved in her disappearance and Nancy. That's not all. Investigators are back at Nancy Guthrie's house. They are closing down the road and they're moving all media out of the area for what they say are investigative purposes.

[Nancy Grace]

If you know or think you know anything about Ms. Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free. 800225 5324. If you wish to remain anonymous, 520-882-7463. There's a $50,000 reward. 520-882-7463. And please, again tonight, join us in prayer for the safe return of Nancy Guthrie. Good.

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