SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: TMZ RECIEVES NEW EMAIL

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: TMZ RECEIVES NEW EMAIL

Release Date: February 14, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts and CrimeOnline

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the ongoing investigation into the abduction of Nancy Guthrie, the mother of television journalist Savannah Guthrie. Thirteen days into her disappearance, a new “missive” (email) was received, this time sent to TMZ by someone claiming to know the kidnapper’s identity. Nancy and her expert panel examine this correspondence, law enforcement tensions, details of the forensic investigation, and the broader psychological and behavioral aspects surrounding such a rare and disturbing crime. Throughout, Nancy emphasizes the urgency and agony felt by the Guthrie family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sheriff-Family Dynamics and New Claims

• Sheriff Chris Nanos has been under scrutiny for his handling of the case and was quoted saying Savannah Guthrie told him, “she has her own people and didn’t need him” ([02:44]).
  • He maintains that the family has been cooperative but notes, "no one is really ever ruled out" as of now ([03:22]).
• Family Under the Microscope: Speculation and public scrutiny of the Guthrie family continues, with law enforcement cautioning against accusing anyone without facts.

2. Bombshell: The Third Missive Sent to TMZ

• Dave Mack (Crime Stories Investigative Reporter) breaks down the third email received by TMZ ([03:54]):
  • The sender claims knowledge of Nancy Guthrie’s location and requests:
    • $100,000 – to be delivered in Bitcoin in two $50,000 installments.
    • Delivery method: First payment for the kidnapper’s name, second installment after arrest.
    • He alleges the reward was doubled to $100,000 “to discredit me.”
  • This suggests the possibility of accomplices.
  • The sender refuses to contact law enforcement and insists on using TMZ as an intermediary, citing distrust: “You don’t trust me, I don’t trust you.”

Notable Quote:

“He’s using TMZ as an intermediary, telling authorities, ‘You don’t trust me, I don’t trust you.’”
— Dave Mack ([04:22])

• The email refers to the “current state” of Nancy Guthrie but gives no details; it is unclear if she is alive ([05:28]).

3. Law Enforcement Response to the Email

• Scott Eicher, Former FBI Agent:

  • Notes that attention-seeking hoaxers are common in high-profile cases.
  • Warns about “taking investigative resources away” from meaningful leads ([07:46]).
  • Suggests many such tips are distractions: “You’re taking investigative resources away from what they should be doing..." ([07:54])

• Josh Colesrude (Criminal Defense Attorney):

  • Points out the legal risks the email sender faces, referencing similar charges against Derek Colella, another alleged hoaxer ([08:19]).
  • Emphasizes until proven false, every tip must be tracked down.
  • Questions why the sender doesn’t use “silent witness” tip line if he wants the reward ([08:57]).

Notable Exchange:

Nancy Grace: “You take your witness as you find them. This guy may be a nut in the vernacular, but what if he does know something?... It would make sense that...the actual perps [are] hanging out with...Not the law and orderly type, but a guy like this.”
— Nancy Grace ([10:08])

Josh Colesrude: “They need to investigate him for a crime that is, you know, giving false information or a false ransom note...Until we find out one way or another whether he is legitimate or not legitimate.”
— Josh Colesrude ([11:37])

4. Psychological Profile of the Email Sender

• Dr. Bethany Marshall (Psychoanalyst):
  • Suggests the tone (“give me 50k but I won’t spend it...” “the reward was doubled to discredit me”) is shallow and immature.
  • Proposes the sender is “just the right amount of wrong” — likely a younger male, immature, who may be excited or fixated on the crime ([15:43]).
  • Urges listeners to look for someone obsessively talking about the case: “...anybody who has a family member, male, a teenager, 20-something...constantly talking about this crime...” ([16:44])

5. Tracking Down Hoaxers vs. Chasing Real Leads

• Brian Fitzgibbons, Security Expert:

  • Argues it's worth tracking down the emailer to either “eliminate this as authentic” or prosecute another hoaxer ([17:53]).
  • Cites FBI intent to “throw the book” at previous hoaxer Derek Colella to deter future pranks ([18:38]).

• Nancy Grace impassionedly reminds listeners: the priority is Nancy Guthrie’s life and the suffering of her family ([19:17]).

Notable Quote:

“That is a tick, a parasite sucking the blood out of the family and law enforcement trying to bring Nancy Guthrie home.”
— Nancy Grace ([20:41])

6. Forensic Controversy: DNA Evidence & The Glove Narrative

• DNA Evidence Sent to a Private Lab:

  • Sheriff Nanos chose a Florida private lab for DNA analysis instead of FBI Quantico, sparking a “feud.”
  • Over $200,000 in county funds reportedly spent; uncertainty surrounds whether DNA originated from inside the house or porch ([23:10]).

• Glove Narrative:

  • Initial accounts said a glove was found in the house; now walked back — currently, only gloves on the roadside are confirmed ([24:03], [33:45]).

• Forensic Expert Joseph Scott Morgan:

  • Explains the complexity of extracting and interpreting “touch DNA,” especially from gloves.
  • Importance of isolating mixed DNA and the value of sweat (vs. mere skin contact) inside gloves ([25:34]).
  • Stresses the need for consistency and high forensic standards; expresses misgivings about not using Quantico.

  Notable Quote:

  “You’re talking about two different types of a potential DNA here... sweat that could be inside of this glove...that’s very, very important here in how it’s handled, how it’s packaged on the front end, how it’s delivered.”
  — Joseph Scott Morgan ([27:56])

7. Conflicting Communication from Law Enforcement

• Confusion worsened by shifting statements from Sheriff Nanos about the presence and importance of gloves found ([33:45]).
• Nancy and panel criticize this erratic communication as detrimental to public confidence.

Notable Quote:

“Why would you say that as if it doesn’t matter where I send it? It may not even be relevant...That does not instill confidence.”
— Nancy Grace ([37:59])

8. Public’s Role: Surveillance and Community Tips

• Authorities are encouraging anyone within two miles of the incident to check doorbell cameras and home surveillance, especially for sightings of a grey truck ([39:42]).
• A video circulating on social media of a man fiddling with a door cam at 5 AM, a week before the abduction, was highlighted as potentially significant.

“Everyone within that two mile circumference...please check your videos, check your door cams, everything you’ve got.”
— Nancy Grace ([39:51])

9. Rarity and Profile of Ransom Kidnapping

• Kidnappings for arbitrary ransom (not drugs, not cartel) are extremely rare in the United States, especially involving elderly individuals ([21:48]).
• “Most of those were drug related...So in this type situation where we’ve got an elderly female...this is very unusual.”
  — Scott Eicher ([21:48])

10. Behavioral Clues About the Perpetrator

• Dr. Marshall emphasizes the sort of mentality able to keep an elderly woman captive sees the victim not as a person, but a means to an end — a pawn ([41:18], [43:18]).
• Family, neighbors, partners should look for:
  • Preoccupation with the case, excited/boastful talk about ransom or news.
  • Promises of wealth, or other signs someone is expecting to “come into money.”
  • A lack of genuine empathy; excitement rather than concern ([44:17]).

Notable Quote:

“If there is empathy in the conversation, that’s not a perpetrator. If there’s lack of empathy, then that is a possible suspect.”
— Dr. Bethany Marshall ([46:08])

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “He’s using TMZ as an intermediary, telling authorities, ‘You don’t trust me, I don’t trust you.”
  — Dave Mack ([04:22])
• “This reminds me of the media campaign for the Cosmopolitan in Vegas. Their tagline is just the right amount of wrong, which is what this guy is, just the right amount of wrong.”
  — Dr. Bethany Marshall ([15:43])
• “That is a tick, a parasite sucking the blood out of the family and law enforcement.”
  — Nancy Grace ([20:41])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:12] - Nancy Grace introduces the breaking news and background.
• [03:54] - Dave Mack details the third email sent to TMZ.
• [07:46] - Scott Eicher (FBI) on resource drain caused by false leads.
• [08:19] - Legal perspective on hoaxers and chargeable offenses.
• [15:43] - Dr. Bethany Marshall psychological profile of the email sender.
• [17:53] - Brian Fitzgibbons: Law enforcement’s need to “eliminate or prosecute” tipster.
• [23:10] - Forensic feud: DNA sent to private Florida lab instead of Quantico, glove controversy.
• [25:34] - Joseph Scott Morgan on touch DNA, gloves, and evidence handling.
• [33:45] - Public confusion: conflicting law enforcement statements about gloves.
• [39:42] - Social media video of man tampering with door cam highlighted.
• [41:18] - Dr. Bethany Marshall on type of person who could imprison an elderly woman.
• [44:17] - Behavioral clues for family, neighbors to watch for.

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Action Item

If you have any information about Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance, call the tip line at 800-225-5324 or 520-882-7463. Anonymity is available.

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Tone & Style

• Urgent, analytical, compassionate: Nancy Grace relentlessly keeps the human cost front and center, even as the experts tackle technical details.
• Candid, sometimes blunt: Frequent use of rhetorical questions and first-person comments (“Who do you think the defendant is hanging around with?”).
• Detailed and sometimes skeptical: Panel members do not shy from criticizing law enforcement mishandling or inconsistent PR.

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Summary

Nancy Grace’s “Crime Stories” leverages her prosecutorial and media experience to scrutinize every angle of the Nancy Guthrie abduction. The episode exposes the latest developments (including suspect communications sent to TMZ), dissects technical and psychological evidence, criticizes official missteps, and pleads with the public to assist in tracking down leads. Throughout, the agony of the Guthrie family is kept front and center, serving as a constant reminder of the real life at stake.

Transcript

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[A]

See terms Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy guthrie missing day 13. This as believe it or not, another missive regarding Nancy Guthrie's kidnap has just been received. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[C]

Since this case began, Sheriff Chris Nanows has been in the spotlight. And now it's being reported that Savannah Guthrie told the sheriff investigating the abduction of her mother, Nancy Guthrie, and she doesn't need him. Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos. He has been under a lot of scrutiny since day one of this investigation. He spoke to Fox News and said that he has talked and texted with Savannah and that she said she has her own people and didn't need him. He goes on to say that the family members have been involved in the investigation. They've been very cooperative. He actually says whatever we've asked for, they've done. But then he adds this. It was getting crazy out there with allegations about the family. You can't accuse people of horrific crime like that and not have any facts behind it. Now he says that. But in the same interview, he also says no one is really ever ruled out as of today.

[A]

Joining us, an all star panel. But straight out to Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter, a new missive regarding Nancy Guthrie. What happened?

[C]

Dave Mack, TMZ received its third email from a guy who claims he knows the identity of Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper, but he's changing the rules. If you remember, in his last note, he said he's not being taken seriously and they will not hear from him again. He wanted one bitcoin that was worth about $68,000 at the time. Now this new email says he's contacting TMZ because he doesn't trust law enforcement. He's using TMZ as an intermediary, telling authorities, you don't trust me, I don't trust you. So now he's suggesting the reward being doubled to $100,000 is because of him. It's a. He actually says it's to discredit me. That's why they raised the award to $100,000. Now he says that he wants a hundred thousand dollars, the FBI reward. But here's how he wants it. He's asking for a fraction of bitcoin worth about $50,000. And in return for that, he will then give up the information and then he expects another 50,000 in Bitcoin. He promises he will not withdraw the first 50k until the kidnapper is arrested. That is the third email from this guy, by the way. One important change to all of this. In his email, he says that when he gets the initial payment, then he will give up the name of the main individual, referring to the main individual, suggesting that there are accomplices, as we've mentioned before in his previous emails. There you go, Nancy, the third email.

[A]

Also, Dave Mack, isn't it true that he refers to the current state of Savannah's mother.

[B]

He.

[A]

We don't have specific details. Harvey Levin is not releasing that. But he is referring to Nancy. But I can't assume that he is saying that she is alive and well or that she is alive. Otherwise this would be an entirely different report right now.

[C]

Yeah, because it's not being very specific about it. But again, he does refer it to the, quote, current state of Nancy Guthrie, but he's not alluding to whether it's good, bad. It's just that she is alive, but nothing else.

[A]

This as DNA has been sent to a private lab in Florida. There's a feud going on about that. Why not to Quantico? I have strong believe that if we recover DNA, it will be touch DNA. We have a DNA expert joining us. Also, there is a walk back, a switch in the glove narrative from Sheriff Nanos. And we learned about a prior investigation by the FBI into Nanos. Also at this hour, a not so official composite has been released. But I want to go straight back to what's happening right now. And that is the missive. Now the third one from the same rat who wants to rat out the rat that took Nancy Guthrie. Okay, there's a lot wrong with this equation. Straight out to Scott Eicher, former fed with the FBI, founding member of CAST cellular analysis survey team [e-mail] precision cellular analysis. Thank you for being with us. You spent years and years with the FBI. This missive is all wrong. Have you ever seen people that go, you're not taking me seriously? Well, for a reason or I'm not crazy? Translation, I'm totally crazy. Same thing here.

[B]

I agree. One of these, when we get these national events like this, and even if it's just a state event or something like that, we always get numerous, numerous tips or people that want to get involved or want to try to make money off of this and we got to run them all down. That's the problem. You're taking investigative resources away from what they should be doing to run down this lead and that lead and this lead. So if it's not real, please don't, you know, bring up something like this.

[A]

Well, it's done now and I'm going to go straight to Josh Colesrew joining us. He is a veteran criminal defense attorney joining us out of this jurisdiction, Arizona, former federal prosecutor and founder of the Colesrude Law Offices. Josh, thank you for being with us tonight. This is a crime. Remember the last guy, Colello, he's already been charged under 18 USC 875. He's got two felony charges for faking and extortion in exchange for knowledge about Nancy Guthrie. I guess this guy wants to get in line behind him.

[F]

Well, you know, we don't know yet what this person knows or doesn't know. But, you know, what's interesting is that, you know, it appears that at least law enforcement is taking him seriously. They haven't said publicly that it's a hoax, but there are some red flags. You know, you have to wonder why, if he has this information, why he's not calling silent witness. Because Silent witness now has a reward for a hundred thousand dollars. So if you have the information, there you go. You know, supposedly, you know, there's information that he may not want to publicly give his information because he doesn't want to be known as a snitch. But, you know, if you want the money, you're going to have to take that chance. There's nothing that he said so far, though, that makes me think that he is truthful. That is, that he has veracity. That he hasn't said anything specific that we don't already know yet.

[A]

Okay, we don't know that or not know that, but you're right, it is being entertained. And the last hoaxer was not called a hoaxer until after he had already been arrested.

[B]

But.

[A]

But you just reminded me of something. You take, or. I take my witnesses as I find them. I have put on the stand nuns, priests, virgins, dope lords, drug addicts, alcoholics that were literally drunk at the time they took the stand. There was nothing I could do about that. You take your witness as you find them. This guy may be a nut in the vernacular, but what if he does know something? Let's just go out on that limb of credibility for just one moment to discount him because of his behavior. The wording of the missives, the way he's kind of haggling over the price, the way he's taking credit for the doubling of the reward from 50 to 100,000. Yes, that's bizarre. That's outlandish. But what if he does know something? And something I always argue to juries. Josh Colesrude. Who do you think the defendant is hanging around with? The folks at the Vatican? No, they're not hanging out with the church deacons or the rabbi. They're hanging out with people just like them. Birds of a feather flock together. So it would make sense that. That the actual perps hanging out with. Not the law and orderly type, but a guy like this.

[F]

Yeah, exactly. And you make some excellent points about, you know, why he might be telling the truth here. And regardless, law enforcement has to either Cross him out as a legitimate lead or not. They need to investigate him for a crime that is, you know, giving false information or a false ransom note, so to speak. And if it turns out that it's not a false ransom note and they can't charge him with the same crimes they chose, they charge the other yahoo. Maybe he's legitimate. And until we find out one way or another whether he is legitimate or not legitimate.

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[A]

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[B]

So good.

[C]

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[F]

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[D]

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[A]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us. And boy do we need a shrink. She is a renowned psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and you can find her at Dr.bethany marshall.com Dr. Bethany there's got to be psychological name for this. He suggests the reward has been doubled from 50,000 to 100,000 because of him. That it was just a move designed to quote, discredit me. What?

[E]

This reminds me of the media campaign for the Cosmopolitan in Vegas. Their tagline is just the right amount of wrong, which is what this guy is, just the right amount of wrong. But you know Nancy, what's fascinating to me is I feel like I kind of have a sense of the profile of this person which could be helpful. Whoever this person is, I'm pretty sure it's male. The way he's bargaining. There's a shallow immature quality, you know, give me 50k but I won't spend it until, you know, blah blah blah. He is very excited by this crime. I'm guessing he's very preoccupied thinking about it 24 7, talking to his friends about it. Yes, he may tangentially know something about this crime. His thought process and reasoning is very shallow. So what I would wonder is there anybody who has a family member, male, a teenager, 20 something year old who is constantly talking about this crime, who's talking everybody's ear off about it. I would wonder if the FBI put out a request for leads or tips towards somebody who keeps bragging that they're going to make money off of this crime.

[A]

Well, hold on just a moment. Dr. Bethany Marshall. Straight back out to Brian Fitzgibbons who is joining us. Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators finding missing people all around the world at uspasecurity.com, also former Marine and Iraqi war vet. Okay Brian, you heard what Dr. Bethany said. Let's track this guy down. Why do we have time to track down a hoaxer? I mean, I don't know how difficult it's going to be to get the IP address. Probably not that hard. That's Iker's bailiwick. But this guy is directly contacting TMZ so he can be tracked down. But do we want to dilute law enforcement to chase him down. Isn't that kind of chasing down a rabbit hole?

[G]

It's absolutely worth the effort here, Nancy, even if for the simple purpose of eliminating this is authentic. You saw with Derek Colella, the Los Angeles person who was the hoaxer. The FBI made an extensive post today. They're going to throw the book at him and make an example out of him. So if this is indeed a hoaxer, we need to eliminate him and we need to make another example out of him to, you know, really dissuade people from doing this in the future as this unfolds.

[A]

What do you mean they're going to throw the book at him and explain, describe what the FBI stated?

[G]

I think that the DOJ in their statement today about Colella, they're not going to buy his information that he just wanted to see if they'd answer his text or whatever. They're going to. They're going to make sure whatever charges they can bring against Derek Colella for hoaxing that ransom demand to the Guthrie family, they will bring those charges heavily against him. And it's important here, with a case like this that has this amount of media attention that we really do everything in our power to dissuade that misinformation coming in.

[A]

If I could get the control room to run back through the photos and show me the photo of Nancy Guthrie with. With her little. Her little black dog. And she's looking directly at the camera as all of us, the so called experts. Yeah, that one are talking about 18 USC 875 and the penalties and the minutia of tracking a email or a text to tmz. Look at her. That's what's at stake right now. Her, her life. Is she dead? Is she alive? Is she hurting? Is she calling out for her children? Is she crying? Is she in a room where the windows are blacked out and she's in the dark? Have they given her anything to eat? Has she had any medications? Did they let her go to the bathroom? Can she stand up and walk around? Just the thought. Is she crying right now? Is she calling out for her children? This is about a real person with a real family that is suffering real pain right now. And I'm glad FitzGibbons reported that Z. O.J. is going to seek the max on this guy because that is a tick, a parasite sucking the blood out of the family and law enforcement trying to bring Nancy Guthrie home. Every day there's a new up and a new down. People's hopes were dashed when Palazzo was released. Carlos Palazzo had nothing to do with this incident. I believe he was singled out because his phone popped up in her Nancy's neighborhood so many times at various times of the day and night. He's a delivery person. They isolated him because of that. They haven't said that, but I am deducing that ups, downs, then he was released and we all woke up just defeated because it meant we had gotten nowhere, starting basically all over. But her life is at stake. And isn't it true Scott Eicher, formerly with the FBI that ransoms for money? Kidnappings of this ilk are very, very rare.

[B]

They are very, very rare. Only two or three that I've worked in my whole career and most of those were drug related. Someone owed money for drugs and they kidnapped a family member or kidnappings coming from Mexico are often money for ransom. Hey, we'll give you your, your brother back if you send us all this money. So in this type situation where we've got an elderly female not involved in drugs, not involved in anything other than just living out her life, this is very unusual to have a ransom situation.

[A]

I've had plenty of kidnaps, but not ransoms for money. Joining me now, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, has an incredible criminal procedure and crime program. Author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon, he's the star of a hit podcast series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. And not only that, he is a death investigator that has investigated over 10,000 death scenes of all sorts. At this hour, we're having a DNA feud. Joe Scott, I just want you to hear Dave Mack explain the alleged feud between the FBI and Sheriff Nanos. What happened?

[C]

Dave, we have the Sheriff Nanos has a lab in Florida that has been used by the county in previous in previous incidents. And apparently from what we're told, Sheriff Nanos sent DNA from the crime scene to this lab in Florida rather than allowing the FBI to take it to Quantico to test it there. And the dollar figure is in the two hundred thousand dollar range that has been paid in county funds to this lab in Florida to do this DNA testing. And we're not even sure if we're talking about DNA from inside the house that he talked about that man has talked about earlier or on the front porch.

[A]

Okay. DNA, DNA. Whether it's from inside the house at first. And Fitzgibbons has an insight on this. At first we were told there was a glove and DNA in the house. Now we're told there is no glove in the house. We do know there were either one or two gloves found on the side of the road. There you see agents checking the side of the road. And it paid off. About 1.5 miles from Nancy Guthrie's home, two gloves were found. Gloves that closely resemble the ones worn by the perp. This video from our friends at Fox News that said to Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, touch DNA. I want to hear your thoughts because, you know, touch DNA can, if they're in gloves, if it's on the inside of gloves, that's one matter. If it's on the outside of the gloves, that DNA is very likely compromised in that it's mixed with other DNA, things the purpose touched, maybe Nancy Guthrie herself. This lab is going to have to be able to differentiate, isolate, differentiate the mixed DNA. And then they're going to have to run it through codis. If he doesn't have a record, maybe his brother, maybe his uncle, dad, cousin has a record, then we're going to have to do genetic genealogy. And you know where that goes. I mean, it can turn out really well, like with Joseph d', Angelo, the Golden State Killer. But it better be a really good lab. And I have my suspicions about which lab it is, but you hit me with the DNA side of this.

[B]

Yeah. So for me, Nancy, it's all about, it's all about consistency in how you're handling this, this scene and how you're processing potential evidence. Because just listen, they're saying they sent DNA. No, they didn't. They sent, they sent samples that might contain DNA. It's not like this is something that you can visualize. And to your point about the fragility of this, you know, they're taking swabs from various locations, points of contact inside of this house. And we'll just talk about the surfaces of the house and if he is doing this, if he's touching these areas with a bare hand, for instance, if he gets comfortable in there, you know, they've talked about this 45 minute or 40 minute time period. He may have been in there. Did he get comfortable enough and then toss the gloves outside as he's leaving? Well, you have to take into account all of the other contact points in there. Another piece to this, Nancy, is I call it the investigative funnel. So you've got a big funnel at the top and you're putting data in there and you're kind of narrowing it down. Anybody else that's been in that house has to be eliminated. That can be caretakers, family members, workers. Anybody else and so when you. You're not on the same sheet of music with all of the investigative agencies, it gets very layered and compromised. I would feel much more comfortable as a forensics guy if these samples had gone directly to Quantico, where I know they know the drill and how to process it. And they've got great partners on the outside that they can source for things like investigative genetic genealogy. And so I don't understand what the problem is here, as you well know, because you were, you know, you worked for the feds for a while, Nancy, the force that they can bring to bear in a situation like this. It's like you're cutting your head off to cure the headache. I don't understand it. It makes no sense to me. The inside of that glove, though, if we talk about that for anybody at home, think about this. If you've ever even had on a pair of winter gloves, what do your hands do? Well, they sweat, right? And you might not even be aware that they're sweaty, that your hands are sweating when you peel those gloves off. You're not talking about touch DNA, then. You're talking about a rich source of DNA. It's not like a partial DNA strand, you know, that has to be amplified and all this other stuff. We're talking about sweat that could be inside of this glove. That's very, very important here in how it's handled, how it's packaged on the front end, how it's delivered, and then how the exam can be done. So you're talking about two different types of a potential DNA here.

[A]

Also, we were told that there was a glove inside the home. We now hear that being walked back. But I firmly believe that there was DNA evidence inside. All it takes, Joe Scott, is one hair. Now, another thing. Oh, guys, the video we were showing you earlier is from Kold, our friends at Kold. There's also the aspect of fibers. That's why we need that truck. We need that gray truck. If it's gray, white, beige, because Nancy Guthrie was bleeding profusely, I believe, from the nose, there's no way that they're going to be able to get all that blood out of the truck. It's almost impossible. When you go in there with Luminol or Blue Star, which is next gen Luminol, you'd have to have it, I guess, cleaned by somebody from the crime lab, right, to get it really clean. But think about the potential fibers from his home. This is how Wayne, one of the ways. Wayne Williams case, a serial killer in Atlanta that killed Young Boys and teens, how he was caught. And my co worker Joe Drew Lake, brilliant, led the charge on getting that evidence in for the first time in the world. And it was admissible. It was carpet fiber from Wayne Williams home, his parents home where he lived at that age, and fiber from his vehicle. The fiber in the home, I want to say was green, but it was shag that was only made a certain time period. And that color and the microfibers, yes, very limited. It could be traced back to their home and it was on the bodies. Also fibers from his car on the bodies. So there's a plethora of DNA, fiber evidence that could have been obtained. I pray to God in heaven the capture of that evidence was not bungled.

[B]

Yeah, I do too. And that's, that's one of my biggest worries with this. If we go back, one thing I've got to state here that's very troubling to me. You remember the blood deposition that was on the, the entrance area there, you know, that we saw and you alluded to it a moment ago. And by the way, I concur with what you're saying. You've got those rather large drops there. That's free falling gravity drop deposit. But if you look, if you look at little bitty drop that are in between, in between those big drops, that's expert, Nancy. So you've got this blowing out. So yeah, there could be blood in a vehicle and also Discovery's hair could be in there. And any clothing she's wearing is unique to her. Her fibers will be in there. So this is a big piece of it. And this is so delicate, Nancy. I cannot begin to emphasize how delicate an operation is. When I saw a card stuck in the door where the nest cam was from Adult Protective Services when they had taken down that tape initially. How in the hell does that happen? How does somebody get access in there? And they put a card up there, you can see it. Where the Nest cam was, was mounted. I'm thinking this is how we're starting out.

[A]

Yeah, we investigated that and I know where you're going. It's not so much who's on the card, it's the fact that somebody could get to that crime scene and put a card on the door. So Dave, Mac, without revealing the woman's name, didn't we determine that she worked with elder care and was probably like the equivalent of a visiting nurse or a home health worker?

[C]

It was, it was just a business card from something along those lines? Yeah. And just dropped off as a marker. I Guess you know.

[A]

So, Dave Mack, if you could capsulize for us. Nanos. Sheriff Nanose's explanation of why he sent the DNA instead of the Quantico. He's working with the feds. They're right there trying to help. They're the ones that got the images off the front porch. Instead of using Quantico, for Pete's sake, he used a private lab, which we think to be DNA Labs International in Florida. Why?

[C]

In a nutshell, here's a direct quote from him. Actually, the FBI just wanted to send the one or two they found, talking about gloves found by the crime scene closest to it. Mile, mile and a half. I said, no, why do that? Let's just send them all to where all the DNA exist. All the profiles and the markers exist in Florida. And he says they agree. So he's saying that the FBI was in agreement with him. Nanos on sending the information to Florida.

[A]

Okay, straight back out to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us. Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. First we were told a glove in the house. Now we're told no glove in the house. Why the walk back?

[G]

Yeah, this has been a bit of a dumpster fire from a PR perspective. You know, we're told initially gloves been found in the house, it's being sent to Florida. Then Sheriff Nanos came out and said, we've found a number of gloves in the course of this investigation, and we don't know if any of them are worth anything or connected to the case. And now this afternoon, he had an extensive conversation with a reporter from Fox News where he said that no gloves were found in the house and he doesn't know where this came from. So we've had some seriously conflicting.

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[A]

Information about crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know what? Whether there's a feud or no feud, what we need is teamwork. And I'm sure the Guthrie family doesn't want to hear this one's not getting along with that one.

[B]

Nanny.

[A]

Nanny Boo Boo. I said this, you said that. Nobody cares. Just send it to the best lab possible. Because this DNA is very highly integrated with other DNA. Highly likely integrated with other DNA if we get anything off those gloves to start with. And I'll tell you another thing. When Nanos says things like, it may not even be connected, why would you say that as if it doesn't matter where I send it. It may not even be relevant that the argument is mute. That does not instill confidence. Fitzgibbons.

[F]

No, not at all.

[G]

And I mean hey, any article found on a crime scene may not be connected to the crime itself.

[F]

Right?

[G]

That's, that's why we go through this process, this forensic process to investigate and determine that.

[A]

Or on the other hand, Ms. Gibbons, it may, it may be connected also. In the last hours. Posted on Social is a very disturbing video. Let's see the video, please. Blur the face. This is a guy very close to on the top. That's what I want to see. This guy was posted by USA News HQ on X& unposted. It looks very similar to the porch guy outside Nancy Guthrie's home. This guy is in no way a POI person of interest or a suspect. The point is, what time was he out and about in the neighborhood? Dave Mack on somebody's porch, fiddling with the door cam.

[C]

It was about 5:00 in the morning, Nancy. And it was on that particular video shot on January 23, just about a.

[A]

Week before Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped, fiddling with the door cam. Now this guy may very well even live there. My point is, please everyone within that two mile circumference, that two mile radius, please check your videos, check your door cams, everything you've got. That was from USA News HQ on X and that is in fact what authorities are asking at this hour. What do you make of that, Josh Colesrude? That they are asking everyone within a two mile radius to check video specifically for a gray truck.

[F]

Well, you know, I like that they posted this video of this new person even though he may not have anything to do with it because I think it encourages other people to do the same thing. And you know, the, the FBI and the sheriff's office, you know, they believe at least that maybe the, the, the white van had been casing the area. Much similar to the Coburger case where Coburger was casing, you know, the, the multi story house that he later broke into. And so, you know, hopefully, you know, people are listening to this show and they start doing what the sheriff's office is asking for.

[A]

Dr. Bethany Marshall, let's just proceed with the belief that Nancy Guthrie is still alive. Okay? Who in their right mind could keep an 84 year old woman imprisoned in a bedroom or an apartment or who knows, a farmhouse, a cellar, a basement. Those are the things that Savannah and her siblings, it's their nightmares. Where is mom? But what Type of mentality, what person, what man could do that?

[E]

Somebody who's obsessed with her because they see her as a mark. They see her as somebody that they are going to profit off of, and that delights them. That makes her very exciting and captivating to them. And, Nancy, a couple of things that you just brought out on this show. The fact that the blood is from the nose, nose droplets potentially, and that it stops on the doorstep makes me so sad because that means somebody stemmed the bleeding by putting their hand over her face. That's the kind of person who's holding Ms. Guthrie. And the other thing, when I see some guy fiddling with a camera at 5am in a neighborhood probably where there are many seniors, it makes me wonder, is there some slim possibility that this was not targeted, that somebody was going from doorstep to doorstep trying to find somebody that they could abduct, kidnap something like this? It just opens up more questions to me rather than resolving them.

[A]

You know, you said something, Bethany, and it made me think just in that moment. And I'm sure you can verbalize this better than me, but whoever's got Mrs. Guthrie, she's not even real to them. They're thinking about potentially Savannah and getting her money. And Mrs. Guthrie is just like a pawn, a thing to them for them to get that money.

[E]

However, I'll tell you something, Nancy. She may be a pawn, she may be a thing, but they've been thinking about her for a long, long time. Reminds me of a patient who came in and could not stop talking about his grandma. Obsessed about his grandma. And I finally realized he was obsessed with her because he was trying to drain her bank account. So there was a lot of talking about it before I finally realized that he was actually using the therapy to commit a crime. Obviously, I stopped seeing him. So there's somebody in some household out there who has a father, a brother, a son, somebody in their lives who has been talking about Nancy Guthrie for a long, long time. That could be a very important behavioral clue in terms of finding the perpetrator.

[A]

What else should people be looking for? Because I believe a case like this could be cracked by a girlfriend, a wife, a sister, a mother, a friend, a neighbor that realizes something is off.

[E]

Oh, well, promises of wealth. I'm going to take you on a big trip. I'm going to buy you a new car. Our ship is coming. In preoccupation with the news, wanting to talk about all the little tidbits that have come out, I don't think that what we should or family members should be watching for is somebody who's actually avoiding talking about this, but somebody who is quite captivated by it. Because, you know when you have a mark, when you're a perpetrator and you're going to benefit financially from something, you want to talk about it all the time. So I think it's going to be in the conversations people are hearing in their households. Think about if you're sitting around the dinner table with your family, all of a sudden there's one family member that says, oh, let's talk about the Guthrie case. What do you think about older people living alone? Oh, do you think that they're. Do you the ransom is going to be paid? Do you think the. Do you think Nancy's still alive? Excited conference conversation, not sad excited conversation. That's what family members, girlfriends, wives, children, whatever, that's what they need to be watching out for.

[A]

You know, that's really interesting, Dr. Bethany, because every time I leave the studio, I'm asked, do you think Nancy Guthrie is still alive? And similar questions. And every time the person seems genuinely upset, they're not excited. Like, what's the latest? It's not like that at all. They're aghast at what has happened. They all have a mother or a grandmother, many of them that live with them or that are living alone. And this strikes fear in their heart. It's really interesting the way you delineated between being excited and almost giddy about it as opposed to being upset and concerned about it.

[E]

Bethany that is absolutely right. And that goes to the third ransom note, right? Is that in this third ransom note, this person who writes it or sends it does not seem to show any concern about Nancy Guthrie. It's kind of all about himself. So also another thing to listen for in conversations around the table or on a date or whatever, is a person talking about how someone could benefit from abducting an older person or they're talking about Nancy herself and how sad this is and is she still alive and how is the family doing? If there is empathy in the conversation, that's not a perpetrator. If there's lack of empathy, then that is a possible suspect.

[A]

If you know or think you know anything regarding Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free 8002-2553-2480-0225-5324 or 520-882-7463 if you wish to remain anonymous. 520-882-7463. Good night, friend.

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