SCIENTIST FOUND SKELETONIZED W/GUNSHOT WOUND

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: SCIENTIST FOUND SKELETONIZED W/GUNSHOT WOUND
Date: June 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this investigative episode, Nancy Grace explores the disturbing rise in suspicious deaths and disappearances among scientists working on advanced technologies—especially those linked to anti-gravity propulsion and UAP (unidentified aerial phenomena, aka UFO) research. The focal point is the case of Melissa Casillas, a nuclear lab worker whose skeletonized remains were recently discovered with a handgun nearby. Through a series of expert interviews and case breakdowns, Grace discusses links between clustered scientist deaths, possible causes—including foul play and intelligence agency involvement—and their broader implications for national security and technological advancement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cluster of Missing and Dead Scientists

• Rising Number of Cases: At least 17 scientists, often with links to aerospace and nuclear research, have disappeared or died under unusual circumstances (02:27).
• Geographic Concentration: Clusters found in New Mexico (Los Alamos), California, and the Northeast, with many involved in classified or advanced research (03:36, Dave Mack).
• Possible Ties: Cases frequently involve people with security clearance and proximity to sensitive government projects.

2. Case Breakdown: Melissa Casillas

• Background: Casillas worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory; disappeared June 2025.
• Last Seen: Delivering lunch to her daughter, then walking alone in Taos County, NM (03:36, Dave Mack).
• Discovery of Remains: Found almost a year later, skeletonized, upright against a tree, handgun nearby. Notably, her remains were undisturbed by scavengers, and family claims to have searched the area previously (05:06, Dave Mack; 06:47, Joseph Scott Morgan).
• Odd Details: Two cell phones found at her house, both factory reset at different times; toothbrush and thyroid medication missing, both strange if suicide was intended (63:16, Lauren Collins).
  • “Melissa's toothbrush and her thyroid medication were gone... For someone who allegedly killed themselves, why are you going to take this medication that, you know, kind of keeps you alive?” – Lauren Collins (63:46)

Forensic Perspective

• Scene Analysis: Lack of animal scavenging, position of body and firearm, and type of gunshot wound create ambiguity about suicide vs. homicide (06:47, Joseph Scott Morgan).

  • “If the entrance wound migrates around posteriorly, the bigger the question mark gets… The probability that it is self-inflicted decreases substantially.” – Joseph Scott Morgan (08:20)

• Connectivity: Casillas is one among several Los Alamos-connected cases, raising concerns of a broader pattern (03:36, Dave Mack).

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3. Notable Related Cases

Dr. Ning Li - Anti-Gravity Physicist (11:54–14:19)

• Background: Pioneer in anti-gravity, government grant recipient, went “dark” after leaving the University of Alabama.

• Suspicious Incident: Struck by a car—only she entered the crosswalk, suffered permanent brain damage, never returned to work (11:54, Nancy Grace; 12:53, Stephanie Harlow).

  • “Nobody else stepped out in the crosswalk. Nobody stepped out but her. And she got mowed down. Immediate, forever brain damage.” – Nancy Grace (17:02)

• Possible Espionage or Suppression: Unclear whether accident or targeting; parallels with “bump” tactics used in intelligence operations (18:58, John Nance).

  • “What happened to her sounds… hauntingly familiar to that type of thing.” – John Nance (19:46)

Kevin Childress - DOE Special Agent (29:57–37:40)

• Role: Senior special agent with Department of Energy, concerned about sensitive UAP-related research.
• Circumstances: Set to brief Congress, found dead at home; official cause cited as COVID, but timeline and official handling raise red flags.
  • “She [wife] came home that evening, and he was dead on the sofa… His spouse is extremely well-trained in the medical field… Surprised to everybody.” – Lou Elizondo (30:54)
  • “Died of COVID yet no one seems to be able to confirm he had COVID and no cod (cause of death) is listed in the obituary.” – Nancy Grace (38:46)

Matthew Sullivan (aka "Quake") - Air Force Intelligence Officer (39:57–45:51)

• Role: Scheduled to testify to Congress on crash retrieval/UFO programs; found dead in hotel room before meeting.
• Reported Cause: Allegedly died of mixing alcohol, Xanax, muscle relaxers, and a children's medication. No autopsy performed.
  • “No autopsy.” – Nancy Grace (45:51)
  • “Congressman Burleson… reached out to the FBI and asked for them to do an investigation due to the timing of Sullivan’s death.” – Dave Mack (45:52)

Amy Eskridge - Anti-Gravity and Free Energy Scientist (50:37–62:57)

• Circumstances: Found dead, ruled suicide by gunshot. Documented harassment: vehicle surveillance, directed energy attacks, hacking, and official indifference (55:36, Frank Milburn; 58:34).

  • “If you hear that I killed myself or anybody else, I didn’t.” (Text from Amy to Frank Milburn, 55:36)
  • Repeated directed-energy attacks documented, akin to “Microwave Havana Syndrome”; left visible physical effects (59:40, 60:22).

• Mental Health Slander: Unfounded rumors of instability used posthumously to sow doubt over foul play (53:00, Nancy Grace).

  • “I find that very difficult to believe… that Homeland Security would enlist… any scientist that had a mental impairment.” – Nancy Grace (53:00)

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4. Expert Commentary & Broader Patterns

Intelligence/Counterintelligence Analysis

• Foreign and Domestic Interests: Multiple experts cite how scientists with financial or personal problems are targets for foreign intelligence (26:59, Frank Milburn).

  • “If you were an adversarial intelligence service, often people who have financial problems—low-hanging fruit—they could give you low-level information, but that leads to who's coming in and out of the lab…” – Frank Milburn (27:28)

• Historical Parallels: “Counterintelligence agencies would sometimes tail or intimidate rivals in the Cold War (18:58, John Nance).

Technological Stakes

• Anti-Gravity & UAP Research:
  • Technologies under study could revolutionize aircraft—from “space-time bubbles” to the rumored “TR3B Black Manta” that manipulates gravity (15:43, John Nance; 17:02, Nancy Grace).
  • “You’re actually moving, warping space and time around the craft…” – John Nance (15:43)
  • These innovations have enormous financial, defense, and strategic value—making the scientists attractive targets for adversaries and corporate espionage.

Weaponization & Suppression Tactics

• Targeted Harassment: Threats, surveillance, and even directed-energy assaults deployed to intimidate or silence researchers (58:34, Frank Milburn).

  • “Vehicle surveillance, directed energy weapon attacks, social engineering, break ins, hacking. That’s a lot of moving parts.” – Frank Milburn (57:09)

• Pattern Recognition: When multiple scientists connected to the same research area go missing or die, coincidence becomes less likely.

  • “When things happen once, it’s an anomaly. Twice, a coincidence. Three times, a trend.” – Lou Elizondo (41:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator (on the gunshot wound for Casillas):
  "Range of fire is going to be very important. And with skeletal remains, that can be very, very difficult to determine. If there is no soft tissue… that the tale will be told." (10:16)

• Frank Milburn (on Amy Eskridge’s messages):
  “If I committed suicide, I didn’t. If you hear that I overdosed, I didn’t. If you hear that I killed myself or anybody else, I didn’t.” (55:36)

• John Nance, former FBI special agent:
  “There are simply too many data points to think this is explainable by coincidence… it kind of reminds me of some of the things that the Bureau used to do back during the Cold War.” (18:58)

• Lou Elizondo, ex-DoD AATIP Director:
  “I can tell you, in my conversations with [Kevin Childress] and of course Amy Eskridge, and then later on with Neil McCasland, all of these individuals had a very keen interest in the UFO topic. And that for me is obviously very concerning.” (37:40)

• Stephanie Harlow (on Dr. Ning Li):
  “She never went back to work… she had been in a terrible car accident that left her brain damaged.” (13:18)

• Lauren Collins (on Casillas case):
  “Both her phones were set to factory reset at different times. One in the morning and one in the afternoon, which is obviously very strange.” (63:16)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:27 – Nancy Grace sets up the episode and introduces the growing number of missing/dead scientists.
• 03:36 – Reporter Dave Mack details the disappearance and discovery of Melissa Casillas.
• 06:47 – Forensic breakdown of Casillas's remains by Joseph Scott Morgan.
• 11:54 – Nancy Grace and Stephanie Harlow discuss the case of anti-gravity physicist Dr. Ning Li.
• 15:43 – John Nance explains the significance of anti-gravity research.
• 26:59 – Frank Milburn analyzes the Casillas case from a counterintelligence perspective.
• 30:54 – Lou Elizondo recounts the suspicious death of Kevin Childress.
• 41:55 – Lou Elizondo on patterns of suspicious deaths among whistleblowers.
• 45:20 – Dave Mack and Nancy Grace examine Matthew Sullivan’s death.
• 50:37 – Amy Eskridge’s work, death, and suspicious warning messages.
• 57:09 & 58:34 – Frank Milburn details harassment and possible foreign intelligence involvement.
• 59:40–62:57 – Documented evidence of directed energy attacks on Amy Eskridge.
• 63:16 – Lauren Collins provides a summary of the Casillas case’s oddities.

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Conclusion

Nancy Grace’s episode paints a troubling portrait of scientific work at the edge of technological possibility colliding with the shadowy worlds of espionage, sabotage, and possibly murder. The similarities in circumstances, official reluctance to investigate, patterns of suppression and harassment, and the high stakes of anti-gravity and UAP research converge into a chilling mystery. While not all details are confirmed, and speculation is clear, the questions raised highlight urgent concerns for the safety of American scientists—and the possible motives of actors who may wish to silence them.

"If you know or think you know anything regarding the deaths and disappearances of these scientists, please dial the FBI at 1-800-CALL-FBI." – Nancy Grace (68:01)

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

This is an I Heart Podcast, guaranteed Human Crime Stories brought to you by Penn Foster. When a student falls behind, the gap doesn't just stay the same, it can grow. Not every student fits in a traditional classroom, and when it's not working, staying on the same path can make things worse. When that happens, another option matters. Penn Foster High School is an accredited online diploma program built for flexibility. It is self paced. That means students can work on their own schedule, fitting school around jobs, family, sports or other responsibilities. It's a different path, but it's a path forward, one that gives students more control over how they learn. The focus is simple. Work toward earning an accredited high school diploma and toward what comes next. If you or your family need a change, visit Penn Foster Edu Nancy. That's P E N n Foster Edu Nancy and learn more. There is an answer.

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Box Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, the FBI continues its probe into space scientists dead and missing as the death toll actually rises to 17. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The toll of missing and or dead space scientists has risen.

[Frank Milburn]

Where you have very, very brilliant people comes very strange and suspicious circumstances around

[Nancy Grace]

anti gravity jet propulsion, special alloys made for high intensity heat. Ideas and theories that most of us have never imagined until they go missing or are found dead.

[Frank Milburn]

A number of them have gone missing with the same circumstances.

[Nancy Grace]

How can these not be connected?

[Lou Elizondo]

This is highly alarming and ought to be investigated thoroughly by the FBI.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us tonight, crime Stories, investigative reporter Dave Mack. What about it, Dave Mack.

[Dave Mack]

Nancy, in a shocking update to the scientist story, you know, we've been covering missing and dead scientists, and now the body, the skeletonized remains of Melissa Casillas has been found. She was working in New Mexico in Los Alamos and went missing June of last year, June 2025. She takes her daughter lunch. She is seen walking down the road the last time she was seen. And when she went missing, the investigation began right at her house, where investigators found two cell phones of Melissa Casillas at home and were factory reset. And by the way, not factory reset at the exact same time, but factory reset at different times when she went missing. It was one of those remarkable things where there was nothing out of the ordinary. She's just doing normal things throughout the day, going so far as to actually drive her husband to work, which was quite a distance, but then forgot her lab, her identification, and had to go back home to get it. At that point, we think maybe she just decided to work from home that day. But something went squirrely and Melissa Casillas was seen walking down the road in Taos County, New Mexico. Then, poof, she's gone. As Melissa Casillas went missing and became part of this list of scientists. You know, we've had several from New Mexico and California and in the Northeast. It's amazing how there's these clusters of scientists and people associated with labs dealing with UFOs, dealing with nuclear power and alternative energy sources. I mean, it's just amazing. And in New Mexico, there have been at least four, maybe more workers associated with Los Alamos and the people with security clearance that have gone missing. And Melissa Cassia is the first found. Her skeletonized remains were found in an area where her family says, thought we already searched that area. The description is that Melissa Casillas was found. Her skeletonized remains were found propped up against a tree with a gun sitting next to her remains. This is an amazing turn of events as we continue to try to find out what happened to the scientists that are still missing and how did some come to their end? Nancy, this is incredible breaking news, and we are following it tonight.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm calling in a death investigator, a renowned death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. He's the author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon, and he's the star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. What more can you tell us?

[Joseph Scott Morgan]

Well, yeah, I mean, it's not uncommon to find an intact skeleton, and particularly in an arid environment where you have the skeleton or the tissue that connects the skeleton, it'll be in a desiccated state, but still attached. What is kind of intriguing though is the fact that her remains had not seen any kind of scavenging. And this is very wild land out there. There are coyotes and all manner of other, other animals that are out there that would in fact scavenge on human remains. The fact that she's in a seated upright position, slumped forward, as if we are to believe that we've heard thus far, again, not uncommon. I think in order to completely assess this scene, I would, I'd probably need to know more about the immediate area around her and also kind of, if you will, the surrounding area at the bait. Because they're saying a tree. I've also heard a wall too. I don't know where that information came from, but it sounds like a tree. It's in a wooded area, which is kind of curious, you know, in this particular region of the country. Right. And so the position that she's in, it does draw my attention as a forensic investigator. I'd want to know more though about the surrounding area. I want to know if there's any signs of struggle in the dirt around that area. And by this point in time, would there still be any evidence of that? I think that that's very important as well. And matter of fact, you know, work countless cases where the individual is still holding the weapon, you do find them that they fall away. What's more compelling about a gunshot wound is first off, we don't know the nature of the gunshot wound is this, they're saying gunshot wound of the head. Well, that's very generalized anatomically. Where is this round positioned? The entrance round or the entrance wound. And also is it an intraoral gunshot wound, which means the muzzle's been placed in the mouth, or is it lateral, which is kind of typical, or is it more of an atypical thing where maybe you'll have it on the posterior aspect or you can also have, have beneath or inferior to the chin as well. So those are the areas you're looking at. The other piece to this, that's very, very important. I have to say. If this is not an intraoral gunshot wound, that means placement is, is here, here or here. Range of fire is very, very important because most of the time when you have self inflicted, you're going to have what's referred to as a press contact or tight contact. Okay. In order to facilitate this. This is just something people naturally do when they're, you know, doing self harm, fatal self harm, like this if it, the further the entrance wound migrates around posteriorly, the bigger the question mark gets. Okay. And because it's contrary to what you see on television and those sorts of things, if you've got some level of distance between the end of the muzzle and the actual contact space, the further and further it moves away, the probability that it is self inflicted decreases substantially. So range of fire is going to be very important. And with skeletal remains that can be, be very, very difficult to determine. If there is no soft tissue or even the desiccated tissue, we can actually, you know, begin to begin to suss that out as well. You know, we've heard that term before. The sinew will still be intact, particularly in an arid climate like New Mexico. Okay. But yeah, the clothing facilitates that. The type of clothing, right. Some of these synthetics that tightly fit to the body like this. Some of the things that you would lose perhaps would be some of the digits, some of the elements of the hand, tinier bones. But again, she's fully clothed. You, you have containment, right. From a skeletal standpoint. And yes, yes, I think people are surprised to find out that the head would still be present at the skull. And yes, that does happen. I've had countless, countless numbers of these. So again, we have to back up from the fantastical things that we see in movies and those sorts of things and look at the real science behind this. And again, until we get more information and really the big thing, guys, I got to tell you, you got to look out for in this case is when you see those reports and they start talking about range of fire, that's going to be your key. That's what you want to look to, because that in that the tale will be told.

[Nancy Grace]

I would be remiss if I did not mention physicist, brilliant physicist, Dr. Ning Lee. She had been awarded $450,000 from the DOD and she disappeared briefly. Then she was mowed down in a crosswalk. Nobody else went out in the crosswalk, but she was suddenly thrust into the crosswalk. She got mowed down. Her husband immediately had a heart attack and later died. She was brain dead and then later died. To Stephanie Harlow joining us, co host, Crime Weekly Podcast what can you tell me about her? I know she's Chinese American and I know that she was brilliant and I know nobody but her ended up in that crosswalk when she got mowed down.

[Stephanie Harlow]

Dr. Ningley worked at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and she was doing anti gravity work and research there. She then left the university after a significant amount of time there, and she started her own business. And then the government came calling and they gave her that grant to work on continued anti gravity research. Because this is Huntsville, they do that stuff there, as well as advanced propulsion research. And then she started working with the government. And at that point, she kind of went dark. And there was a big thing online for a while because people thought she disappeared. She was off the map for quite a bit. And there was a journalist who was trying to find her to talk to her about her research, and he couldn't find her. And he reached out to another anti gravity researcher, Eugene Polinac, and Eugene said, oh, she's working for the government. She just can't talk to anybody about what she's doing right now. But Eugene also said, I haven't been able to reach her either. And it was several. It was several years later when this same journalist finally tracked down Amy, Dr. Nangle's son. And the son said she had been hit. She had been in a terrible car accident which had left her with permanent brain damage. She developed dementia. And then he took care of her for several years and until she finally passed away from this. But she was never the same, obviously. She never went back to work.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what's interesting, Stephanie, is that Dr. Lee has been compared to Amelia Earhart. She is the Amelia Earhart of physics. The scientist that many people say, quote, discovered anti gravity. That's the significance of. Who is Dr. Ning Lee? She is. Was. Brilliant. Very quickly, I want to go to John Nance, former Supervisory special agent, FBI, assigned to D.C. and Miami. Got a question for you, John Nance. Explain the significance of anti gravity research. As a layperson, the. The best way I can describe it is we obey the laws of gravity, we understand them. Anti gravity research as it relates to aircraft of any type means that an aircraft could go up, down, to the side, tangential, any way it wished, and at speeds unlike anything we understand. So how valuable is it? Did I capsulize it correctly?

[John Nance]

Well, when you're talking about anti gravity or field propulsion systems, you're not really talking about pushing a craft through space. You're talking about actually moving space and time around a craft. So a bubble is created. And I don't know exactly how that. I'm sure there are other people that could address that in much more technical terms than I can. But essentially a space time bubble is created around the craft, if such technology is actually available. And so you're actually moving, warping space and time around the craft. That's why they appear to move in ways that are completely alien to our understanding of physics, or at least material science anyway. I think our physics can explain it, but our material science is in no way capable at this point of producing those that kind of performance. So I think generally speaking, yes, you're correct, but it's not the normal way of thinking about like a jet engine works by sucking in air, producing thrust and blowing that out the back of an engine. That is not what we're talking about exactly.

[Nancy Grace]

Anti gravity craft, as I understand it, highly advanced aerospace vehicles designed and they manipulate gravity fields for propulsion. The most cited example is the TR38 Black Manta. It's rumored to be a triangular nuclear powered spy plane using accelerated pressurized mercury. And it creates a plasma based anti gravity field around it, just as John Nance was describing. It's beyond what us regular trial lawyers are used to discussing, but needless to say, back to Stephanie Harlow, co host, star of Crime Weekly, it's incredibly valuable, not just to our defense, but financially to our government, to whatever private entity or corporation ultimately develops it. And there's high interest in foreign entities regarding US research in anti gravity. Now, but after being mowed down in a crosswalk, and I keep going back, John Nance joining me, former supervisory special agent with the FBI, to the fact that, for instance, in Manhattan, everybody walks out into the street when they think that they're not going to get run over. They don't look at the walk, don't walk signs. In this case in Huntsville, nobody else stepped out in the crosswalk. Nobody stepped out but her. And she got mowed down. Immediate, forever brain damage. She could never work as a physicist again after that.

[John Nance]

There are simply too many data points to think that this is, you know, explainable by coincidence. All these events that are surrounding, especially these, what we're calling the anti grab technology is simply the correlation is simply too strong to ignore. And it kind of reminds me of some of the things that the Bureau used to do back during the Cold War. In fact, agents assigned to counterintelligence functions would often tail KGB agents into the New York subway systems and quote, unquote, give them a bump, so to speak, as an intimidation tactic, kind of pushing them toward the subway. So what happened to her sounds, you know, hauntingly familiar to that type of thing. Obviously, FBI agents weren't trying to kill KGB agents, but, you know, not something that is certainly unheard of within intelligence or counterintelligence communities. So obviously incredibly suspicious. And we keep going back to people who are involved in the uap sphere, or you know, more commonly known as the US UFO sphere. I think we've had three congressional hearings on this so far and Matthew Sullivan case is extremely disturbing. You have an individual that was getting ready to come forward and testify before Congress about matters of incredibly sensitive intelligence value. So I think that the FBI has has every cause to be highly concerned and also Representative Burchett and Luna have all also been leading the charge on these matters as well as Burleson. So you have incredibly credible people who are very concerned about all these matters. So this isn't something to be taken lightly or to be dismissed as crazy UFO talk. This implicates very, very real technologies and programs that have been attested to. You know, crash retrieval programs that have been attested to under oath for Congress.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories brought to you by Penn Foster When a student falls behind, the gap doesn't just stay the same. It not every student fits in a traditional classroom and when it's not working, staying on the same path can make things worse. When that happens, another option matters. Penn Foster High School is an accredited online diploma program built for flexibility. It is self paced. That means students can work on their own schedule, fitting school around jobs, family, sports or other responsibilities. It's a different path, but it's a path forward, one that gives students more control over how they learn. The focus is simple work toward earning an accredited high school diploma toward what comes next. If you or your family need a change, visit Penn Foster Edu Nancy. That's P E N n Foster Edu Nancy and learn more. There is an answer this July 4th,

[America 250 Announcer]

come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail]

[Nancy Grace]

since he got out, bad things keep happening.

[Lou Elizondo]

Keep Fear, a new series is streaming June 5th on Apple TV.

[Nancy Grace]

Why would I want to hurt you?

[Lou Elizondo]

Starring Academy Award winner Javier Bardem and Academy Award nominee Amy Adams.

[Nancy Grace]

He's coming after my family.

[Lou Elizondo]

Cape Fear, streaming June 5 on Apple TV.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories is so proud to be supported by Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private, nonprofit Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. GCU doesn't settle for the status quo, they shatter it. At gcu, academically rigorous, industry driven programs are built to move at the speed of relevance with practical skills, career readiness and opportunity for every learner. And GCU believes education should not be a privilege, but an affordable path forward for all. In fact, they've kept tuition at the same rate on their traditional campus for the past 17 years and they're continuing that into the 2026-2027 academic year. Grounded in Christian faith, GCU works to empower the next generation to lead with integrity, serve with purpose and help transform their communities, building a future that matters. GCU is purpose driven Education. Take action. Find your purpose at GCU, private Christian, affordable nonprofit. Visit gcu.edu to learn more CRIME STORIES with Nancy Grace. Joining us tonight, crime stories, investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave Mack, what more can you tell us?

[Dave Mack]

Nancy? The body of nuclear lab worker Melissa casillas Foundation nearly 11 months after she was reported missing with an apparent gunshot wound to the head. Her decaying body is how it's described. Skeletonized remains found propped up against a tree in an area that families say, hey, we already looked there. Melissa Cassia is 54 years old when she was last seen. Reported missing June 26th of last year. The remains discovered in McGaffrey Ridge area of the Carson National Forest. Handgun found near the remains. Investigators not publicly announcing a lot of information about the find, but an investigator hired by the family believes foul play involved in Melissa Cassia's death. And something to really pay attention to here is that while her skeletonized remains are found outside in the woods propped up against a tree, but there doesn't appear to be any type of animal scavenging of her remains. This is not something that we hear a lot of. I'm sure it's not as uncommon as we think, but still skeletonized remains, Melissa Cassia's body found in the Carson National Forest in New Mexico.

[Nancy Grace]

As you all know by now, brilliant, brilliant scientist Frank Milburn joining us, former British intelligence officer who knew Amy very well and he spoke with Amy just hours before her death. First of all, thank you for joining us tonight. What more can you tell us?

[Frank Milburn]

Well, I think it's extremely concerning. I mean, you had a very mysterious circumstance around her previously, you know, leaving her phone, leaving her documents behind, which is extremely worrying. And if you're going on a hike, for example, you want to have that kit with you in case like something happened to you and you got hurt. You want to be able to communicate with somebody. The fact that she had financial problems is actually very, very intriguing. It's been speculated that maybe, okay, she didn't have access to high level information. But I'm just Speculating here, going out on a branch, if you were an adversarial intelligence service, often people who have financial problems, even if they're what you might call low hanging fruit, especially administrative positions, they could give you low level information, but that leads to who's coming in out of the lab, who's working there, all these types of things. So that as an adversarial intelligence officer, you can build up these kind of pictures. Well, I mean, that would be of prime interest to for example, the Department of Energy's Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence, because you would be worried that somebody has effectively a lever, that hostile intelligence service. Well, they're all hostile. That an adversarial intelligence service could actually use to try and gain access, to gain further access. And that's a very common thing that comes up. I mean, when you do your vetting, it's about your reliability, your loyalty. And also, do you have drug problems? Do you have marital problems? Have you stepped out on your husband or your spouse? Do you have financial problems? All these kind of things are exactly what a counterintelligence investigator would take into account. I think Joseph was bang on, especially about. He's obviously got expertise in the area. But the ingress and egress routes, I want to know more about those. Was the terrain like, you know, easy go slow go hard go. If how did she get in and if it wasn't her who actually put herself there, was there access for, you know, like a quad bike or a horse or, you know, where's the nearest place that you could park a vehicle effectively to get into those areas? Also as well, I'd want to know, you know, you have to know more about the circumstances. Death. Is it a suicide or is it a murder that staged to look like a suicide? I think that's, you know, that's a big question that we'd want to know. The other thing I'd want to know as well about the weapon is if it were, if it were, I'm speculating here, an extraneous weapon, I. E. Not one that was associated with her or her family or something that she could have got her hands on easily or that somebody could have got their hands on and staged with the body. I'd want to know if the barrel had been cleaned before firing, if there were, say, excessive oil residue on the body. Because, and again, I'm speculating here, but professional operators, former military people and military people, they always tend to clean the barrel before firing. It's just like a habit because you don't want to have smoke, excess smoke coming out the barrel, which can give your position away. Okay. That's like a professional point. So that's what I want to know. But I find, obviously, I don't have access to the forensics, and I don't have access to, you know, what the FBI and the Department of Energy counterintelligence people are saying about the wider picture surrounding her. So that those are all key things. So beyond that, it's really speculation for me.

[Nancy Grace]

Lou Elizondo joining us, former US Army Counterintelligence Special Agent, former Director, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. You have refused in the past to give me the name Kevin Childress, but I found it elsewhere. Kevin Childress, and correct me if I am wrong, was set to have a meeting describing very, very sensitive scientific information. He was going to Congress and talking about what was in the UAP files, and then suddenly, he's found dead on a sofa, and there was never an autopsy. What can you tell me about Kevin Childress other than he was brilliant? That much I already know.

[Lou Elizondo]

Kevin Childress was a senior special Agent with the Department of Energy. And as you continue to look at some of these other cases, there are definitely ties. When you're talking about a national laboratory, there are always ties with the Department of Energy. And so in this particular case, Special Agent Kevin Childress was the Special Agent in charge. He was there at headquarters with the Department of Energy, and he had reached out to me. This is right after I left the Pentagon. And he was very concerned. He said, look, the Department of Energy has a significant role in the UAP business, and I'm pretty upset by what I have access to. And now that I've raised it through my chain of command, I feel that the Department of Energy is trying to keep me quiet. So I'm worried about that. But there's a lot of information. This is what he's saying, that I have access to, and I would love a chance to talk to somebody in Congress about it. So I was in the process of arranging a meeting between Special Agent Kevin Childress and some members of Congress back in the 20. 20. 2021 time. And to spare the, you know, the family there want to be cognizant of their privacy. Let's just say his spouse is extremely well trained in the medical field. And I think it was a surprise to everybody he had left. She had left for work that morning. He seemed fine. She came home that evening, and he was dead on the sofa. And clearly, I had some surprise as well when I heard this news but if you look at his obituary, obituary, which I find very interesting, specifically one of the last paragraphs, it talks about his, his, his interest in the UAP topic. And that's actually what was the, the basis for our conversation we were going to have in Congress. I was going to bring him there as a whistleblower and allow him to speak his piece.

[Nancy Grace]

Can we identify that please? You. Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. That's what we're talking about. Uap.

[Lou Elizondo]

Unidentified it sounds very conspiratorial, but the reality is, is that our government has spent a lot of time, a lot of resources looking into, into the topic of UAP or what was known in the vernacular as UFOs in the past. And of course people like to snicker and giggle about it, but the reality is we took it very seriously and we spent a lot of money, taxpayer money looking into this because we had in some cases almost mid air collisions between a UAP or a ufo, if you want to call it that, and, and military aircraft. We also saw these things over controlled US airspace, over sensitive military installations, over nuclear facilities. And this is why Department of Energy is so important here, because the nuclear tie is, it may be actually something that we need to look at all these scientists that have disappeared.

[Nancy Grace]

Nuclear tie, hold on, you know what, pardon the pun, but you're light speed ahead of us regular people. What do you mean the nuclear tie?

[Lou Elizondo]

So one of the things that we noticed while in the Pentagon running the UFO program was that these UAP or these, these UFOs have a, an interest in our nuclear equities, whether it's nuclear propulsion, nuclear power and nuclear weapons systems. And what a lot of people don't know is that the Department of Energy plays a significant role when anything that is, that is considered radioactive or has a certain yield. Department of Energy has primacy. And so in this particular case you have a lot of scientists writ large, not just Kevin Childress, who was the special agent that were looking, that were working at these national laboratories under the Department of Energy cognizance. And a lot of the work that they were doing could be related to some sort of Department of Energy project. Now I want to be very careful here because certainly I don't want to talk about anything that's classified. But you know, as one of your, your participants here mentioned, these individuals had security clearances, in some cases, top secret SC security clearances as high as it gets. And that's the reason why you have FBI now involvement in investigating these, what we call national level cases. But there are other Individuals and I'm sure your, your, your, our friend here, Frank Milburn can tell you Amy Eskridge was no different. I had the opportunity to speak with her in person in 2018 timeframe in, in the Huntsville, Alabama area, Redstone Missile Arsenal, where she had indicated to me that she was working on an anti gravitic technology, her and her father and that that research was being suppressed. And I know this sounds very conspiratorial, but I was there for the, for the meeting was actually over dinner and all I'm telling you is what she told me. And she said that they are being harassed and that she's very, very afraid that there are certain elements that are trying to quote, unquote, shut them down. And, and yeah, she, she told me that verbatim. And then of course unfortunately she, she wound up dying, passing away as General McCasland. The same thing a lot of people don't realize. Neil McCaslin who we talked about AFRL, Air Force research Laboratory and some of these other national laboratories, he was a linchpin to a lot of the military's black projects. Basically they're working on technologies that in theory we won't see for another 50 years. And McCasm, what a lot of people don't know is that he was also an advisor to one of my colleagues, Tom delong. Tom delong is the former frontman and current frontman I think again for the Blink 182 rock band. And as crazy as this sounds, Tom had an interest in the UAP topic, UFO topic, and General McCaslin, Neil McCaslin I know as a fact because I worked with Tom, was one of his, his advisors on the UFO topic. And so I want to be very careful here not to sound conspiratorial or draw any lines that aren't there, but a lot of these individuals that are on this list actually had some sort of involvement in either advanced propulsion, advanced types of materials and alloys, or specifically UAP research.

[Nancy Grace]

Question to you. What was the cause of Kevin Childress death?

[Lou Elizondo]

He supposedly died from, from COVID complications. But when I spoke to him earlier, he seemed fine. And according to other witnesses, who I won't name here, who saw him that very morning, said he seemed fine.

[Nancy Grace]

Did his wife know he had Covid?

[Lou Elizondo]

You know, I'd let her answer that instead of me. Again, I'm very cautious not to overstep my bound. I want to be very careful of people's privacy, but I would suspect.

[Nancy Grace]

Do you know if a, an autopsy was ever performed?

[Lou Elizondo]

I, I don't know that. I don't know that. But I know when he talked to me, he had told me specifically like Amy Eskridge, that he was very afraid that there was, there were reprisals against him at the Department of Energy, that they tried to squeeze him out, they tried to launch fake investigations and tried to discredit him. And something that I'm personally keenly aware of because when I left the Pentagon as well and decided to go public, they, the same thing happened to me and some of my colleagues who decided to come out and talk about this topic to the American people. So I, I don't doubt the fact that he was in some way, shape or form being intimidated and, and they were trying to suppress his, his communications. When I say they, I don't know who they are. I don't know if it was government sponsored or if it was someone else. But I can tell you in my conversations with him and of course Amy Eskridge and then later on with, with Neil McCasland, all of these individuals had a, had a very keen interest in the UFO topic. And that for me is obviously very concerning.

[Nancy Grace]

Died of COVID yet no one seems to be able to confirm he had Covid and no cod. Cause of death is listed in the obituary. Kevin Childress, who was concerned that he was being treated as a whistleblower and was set to talk to a member of Congress, then dies on the sofa. No cod. Joining me now is Lou Elizondo, former U.S. army counterintelligence special Agent, former employee, Office Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, former Director, Advanced Aerospace Threat identification program and UFO whistleblower. Wow. Mr. Elizondo, I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Also very curious about Matthew Sullivan, AKA Quake. Is it true or do you know whether an autopsy was ever performed on Sullivan and what was said to be his cause of death?

[Lou Elizondo]

Yeah. So rather than share what I don't know, let me share with you what I do know. He was an Air Force Intelligence officer. He was a colleague of one of my colleagues at the time, Dave Grusch. Dave Grusch and I had worked at US Space Force together and Sullivan wanted to come forward and have a conversation with certain members of Congress about the Air Force's involvement in the UFO program. And he was slated within, I think, 24 hours. He had gone to Washington D.C. and was in a hotel from my understanding, and was going to have a conversation with some members of Congress in a skiff. A SCIF is a Sensitive Compartmented information facility. So it's kind of Like a. Think of a secret vault where you can have conversations at the classified level. And the day before he was supposed to have a conversation or two days before he wound up being found dead. I knew. What I do know is that there was a while before the medical examiner even released a report. It kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed. I don't know the reason why it was delayed, but I do know that members of Congress were very concerned the fact that this individual was supposed to testify and wound up dead. And by the way, this wasn't the only one. There was another, another individual whose name I won't mention because it hasn't been made public yet. But he was an individual, an engineer who was allegedly tied to the exploitation of recovered UFO material. He was a. He was talking to one of my colleagues and he was, he was going to go talk to Congress about his knowledge about, about legacy UF US Government legacy UFO efforts. And within, I think a week or so before he was supposed to go to Washington D.C. he wound up dying. And the cause of death, I don't know. But one of my colleagues was following it very closely and was concerned enough to tell me, hey, look, you know, people are starting to disappear. You may want to be very careful. So there does seem to be a very interesting, you can call it a coincidence, but in my line of work as a former intelligence officer, you know, when things happen once, it's an anomaly. When things happen twice, you could chalk it up as a coincidence. But when it happens three times now you have a trend now, now you have a, have a connection there. And there does seem to be some very interesting connection here. Now, I also have to preface, though, you know, as a former intelligence officer myself, it is not as uncommon as you might think that foreign countries will sometimes take very extreme measures to keep information quiet. We're now beginning to see that there are several scientists now in China that are missing. And there may be reasons for that, and same with Russia. So we need to do a lot of work on this. But if I may, Nancy, digress for just one moment because you had a very interesting picture there of a vehicle that was allegedly hit by a bolt. And this was the scientist, female scientists, who went up and wound up disappearing. Yeah. Let's take a look at this photo, for example, just for a moment. What I find very interesting, as a former special agent myself, is that if a boulder hit this, I don't see any real damage to the top of the vehicle. What I see is damage into the back of the window, as if Someone tried to do some sort of smash and grab and maybe some minor damage below that on the trunk of area. But what I don't see is anything that looks like a large boulder had come raining down from a cliff and, and smashed the back part of the vehicle there. And now maybe they were able to recover a rock or something. But that really does not look consistent to me as, as a giant boulder coming down from a hill and, and smashing the vehicle. One would expect to have much, much more damage to that vehicle if that was a case.

[Nancy Grace]

That is an incredible observation. It's right under our noses, but we didn't see it. That's why you are the former U.S. army Counterintelligence Special Agent. I want to defend Matthew Sullivan because I feel that he, along with Amy Eskridge, along with Ingrid and others, is being painted in a, let me just say, a bad light. Matthew Sullivan earned a Bronze Star for valor in Operation Enduring Freedom. He worked for the Air Force Intelligence Agency, the National Air and Space Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency. You know, it was stated by Major General David Abba that Sullivan held the, quote, burden a select few in this nation have of truly understanding what is going on in the field of jet propulsion, anti gravity, UFO information. He had the highest recommendations yet. Let me understand how Matthew died. Matthew died just before he was set to speak to members of Congress alone in a hotel room. To you, Dave. Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter. What were the circumstances surrounding his death? What did they say he had ingested?

[Dave Mack]

Nancy they said that this Air Force veteran Bronze Star recipient Matthew James Sullivan, at the age of 39, died from a lethal mix of alcohol. Alprazolam, cyclobenzaprine. We've got alcohol, Xanax, a muscle relaxer and a bedwetting. That is medication. That's what it is reported for children. Yes, for children, yes. Nancy, one thing to go back very quickly on Matthew Sullivan.

[Nancy Grace]

No autopsy.

[Dave Mack]

None. Representative Eric Burleson. Nancy, he's a congressman from Missouri who serves on a House Oversight Committee task force that on the declassification of federal secrets. They were so shocked in his office at the death of Matthew Sullivan that Congressman Burleson reached out to the FBI and asked for them to do an investigation due to the timing of Sullivan's death.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Joseph Scott Morgan]

he got out, bad things keep happening.

[Lou Elizondo]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Lou Elizondo]

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Lou Elizondo]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories is so proud to be supported by Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private, nonprofit Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. GCU doesn't settle for the status quo, they shatter it at gcu. Academically rigorous, industry driven programs are built to move at the speed of relevance with practical skills, career readiness and opportunity for every learner. And GCU believes education should not be a privilege, but an affordable path forward for all. In fact, they've kept tuition at the same rate on their traditional campus for the past 17 years and they're continuing that into the 2026-2027 academic year. Grounded in Christian faith, GCU works to empower the next generation to lead with integrity, serve with purpose, and help transform their communities, building a future that matters. GCU is Purpose Driven Education. Take action. Find your purpose at gcu. Private Christian, affordable nonprofit. Visit gcu. Edu to learn more Crime stories with Nancy Grace Sullivan was part of a legacy UFO program, the US Government Crash Retrieval Program. He was part of the US Government's Crash Retrieval Program. Lou Elizondo what is that? The Crash Retrieval Program.

[Frank Milburn]

Wow.

[Lou Elizondo]

Well, first of all, Nancy, it's a great question, and it's a question that I'm not allowed to answer. Let me just say this. I still maintain a security clearance with the United States government, and there are certain prohibitions that I have been told and I've had to literally sign my name on a piece of paper saying that I would not discuss details about certain topics. XYZ the notion of crash retrievals, unfortunately, is one of Them it is still considered very sensitive in the US government. And I unfortunately I cannot confirm nor deny or elaborate very much at all on, on that topic. But what I can say is what you're saying was absolutely what was communicated as well to Congress that, that Mr. Sullivan here had some sort of affiliation with legacy efforts and potentially reverse engineering.

[Nancy Grace]

Now correct me if I'm wrong, Frank, first of all, thank you for joining us tonight. But Amy Eskridge, brilliant scientist, was found with allegedly a self inflicted gunshot wound to the head. Huntsville, Alabama near the NASA space station, which is not just in Florida but also in Huntsville. She texted with you some very disturbing information. Now to my understanding, of course, I'm just a trial lawyer. She was studying anti gravity, is that correct? Anti gravity propulsion.

[Frank Milburn]

She was interested, yes in anti gravity. She was interested in free energy, which is extraction of energy from the ether and potentially unlimited amounts which would obviously change the whole way, you know, that we, that we have and produce energy on Earth and potentially would help, you know, every, every poor country in the world. But it could also be, you know, very dangerously used as a weapon. What she was actually used working on when she was attacked with the directed energy weapon that's been heavily doctored, that was especially documented with videos, testimony and other witness there. She was actually working for Homeland Security on a project which would defend US subways across the continental United States from chemical, bio and radiological attack. So you know, across the board she had a very interesting portfolio of things that she was interested in and working on. But you know, she was an American paid.

[Nancy Grace]

Circle back to what you just said, Frank Milburn, that she was working with Homeland Security on methods to protect public transport in the U.S. could you expand on that please?

[Frank Milburn]

Yes, certainly. She and a colleague, they were approached. I actually went to sat in on a couple of the meetings with people, senior members from Homeland Security and from another agency that I'm not going to mention. Amy was there, a contact of mine was there who was ex American Special Operations and there was a. And one of her co workers was there and they were basically discussing with Homeland Security everything from directed energy weapon attacks. But the specific project that they were working on was to design a system whereby all the subways across the continental United States could be protected from biological, chemical and radiological attack. A detection system effectively.

[Nancy Grace]

Mr. Milburn, joining us, former British intelligence officer. And the reason I wanted you to tell us a little bit more about her project she was working on with Homeland Security is that many people, many naysayers are suggesting that she somehow had mental or emotional problems. I find that very difficult to believe. As a former fed myself working for the government my entire legal career, that Homeland security would enlist the aid of any scientist that had a mental impairment. I find that very, if not impossible, difficult to believe. Now, Amy, 34 years old, had also been researching, as I first mentioned, anti gravity advanced technology with anti gravity propulsion. And what is interesting about that to me is anti gravity propulsion. When we think of aircraft of any type, be it a plane, a helicopter or rocket, we are within the framework of our known laws of gravity. But anti gravity jet propulsion would mean that the aircraft could go up, down, side to side and at rapid rates of speed unlike anything we have ever seen. Isn't that true?

[Frank Milburn]

Yeah, that's true. And I mean, if you're looking now, you know, we're looking. The next big step for mankind is the colonization of space effectively and exploiting space's mineral resources and also exploiting space strategically. I mean, you know, they've just gone to the moon, Artemis, and they're looking, you know, for their. Have a base and then be able to jump to Mars. So if you had this anti gravity technology and also, you know, free energy potentially, you know, to as a fuel system for other propulsion, you'd be streets ahead of anybody using or streets ahead, you'd be light years ahead of anybody using traditional rocketry technology.

[Nancy Grace]

Also she was working with her father, Dr. Eskridge. They had founded a research institute together on something called TR3B, TR3B, which is a triangular type of aircraft that she thought would be suited to, that would be compatible with her anti gravity jet propulsion. Now, this is very hard for most of us to take in. Most of us are not literally rocket scientists like Amy and her cohorts. I want to talk to you about the texts that she sent you just before her death. What did she say?

[Frank Milburn]

Well, the immediate text, sort of in the month before her death was, you know, if I committed suicide, I didn't. If you hear that, if I overdosed, I didn't. If you hear that I killed myself or anybody else, I didn't. And this was text to myself. There were other texts to other people, you know, co workers. I just got a message actually, you know, the, the day before yesterday from somebody I'd been in contact with, a very close friend of Amy who was also subject to attacks, who just said like, no way did she commit suicide. And, you know, well done for putting out there. They don't want to put it out there because they've been attacked and they have, you know, they have things to protect. So this was over a course of the year then She's. Who's. They are being attacked.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm sorry, who is they? Who do you think they. I'm not in disagreement. I am not in disagreement because the best way to cover up homicide is to make it look like a suicide. And I have personally investigated and prosecuted cases where the victim was portrayed as mentally imbalanced, having committed suicide, when in fact they were the victim of a homicide. When you say they have a reason to kill her, I assume you could be talking about a foreign entity that wants to extract, use and implement her work. It could be corporate espionage. Someone that wants that technology, those ideas to make money off of. Could be a jealous co worker. I don't know what it is, but when you say they had reason to kill her, who in your mind is they?

[Frank Milburn]

Well, I'll tell you somebody. Initially I looked at, you know, I was looking, thinking like the gru, Russian military in terms of intelligence, or you know, the, the Chinese. But you have to understand this is an actor who over or actors over a period of like maybe three years or even more, were Harris harassing her over a period of time? Vehicle surveillance, directed energy weapon attacks, social engineering, break ins, hacking. That's a lot of moving parts. Hold on. That's a lot of moving.

[Nancy Grace]

Hold on. Frank, you got me drinking out of the fire hydrant. That's. That's too much, too fast. Okay, you mentioned the potential of Russian military, of Chinese intelligence, and I don't know why that seems so hard to believe. Difficult to believe. How many people do Russian intelligence have to throw out a window or poison with perfume? We hear about it all the time. This type of espionage happens to all the time, right under our noses. So it is not difficult to believe it could be happening here. But you mentioned being harassed. Harassed how? And also you mentioned a directed power hit on her body from which she allegedly sustained multiple bruises and showed them two people. And when we're talking about that, is it something akin to, for instance, the Havana Syndrome?

[Frank Milburn]

This wasn't alleged. It's all documented. And I actually showed, you know, the, the images of her to a doctor friend of mine and she said, yeah, those are consistent, you know, with, with, with the directed energy microwave weapons. Havana Syndrome is mostly acoustic, but these were directed into microwave weapons that literally, you know, fry your body, fry your central nervous system, fry your spine, give you all kinds of gastrointestinal problems. But the point that I was coming to off before was that this was an actor which had a lot of resources on the ground, and that managed to pass for a long, long period of time, basically unimpeded. And that may or may not have been able to suborn or subvert law enforcement and authorities at local, state and federal level. Okay, so they avoided counterintelligence scrutiny. When Amy went to talk to the FBI, she said, thanks, Frank, for setting this up. Through my. Your friend. She talked to the FBI for three months, and then the FBI turned around and said, we don't have jurisdiction on this case to cover this case. Well, hang on.

[Nancy Grace]

Apparently they are now getting involved. We just showed a photo of Eskridge's red hands. What is that?

[Frank Milburn]

That was when she was working literally on that project for Homeland Security. And she was, I think about six stories up, but they got hit with a directed energy weapon. And she got burnt on her hands. Not on her face. I believe it was on her hands. So something directed specifically at her hands. And there's another scientist. I actually sent you the videos. There's a 9. Another scientist with her in the background. And you can hear him say, it's a directed energy weapon, A microwave directed energy weapon. So there's two witnesses there, two scientists who are expert witnesses and able to describe exactly what is happening to them.

[Nancy Grace]

What is that? See, for many of us, that sounds like a futuristic movie plot, but it's not. It's in the here and now. Directed energy attack. What is it?

[Frank Milburn]

Well, there's her air gap computer there, and then she's basically being pounded with microwave weapons. She's saying, in this case, it's basically. They're trying to build a 3D, a three dimensional picture of her hands to see what she's typing on. Because she's removed the WI FI card from the computer so that it can't be hacked. Because she suffered so many hacking attempts. I mean, literally every other day she was doing a completely clean install on all her computers and her phones.

[Nancy Grace]

What was it, Frank Milburn, that was so sensitive that she was working on?

[Frank Milburn]

Well, I mean, it could be, you know, you either. She was. She had all this harassment that was leading up to it. So I presume that was. I assessed as wanting to her to desist from the work. Okay. She was never offered a job. Nobody ever said, here's some money, come and work for us. It's like, we want. They wanted her to desist from it. And then they did these microwave energy weapons attack, knowing that that would debilitate her so that she'd be unable to continue with her work slowly. And then eventually, because she was too stubborn, she ended up dying. Now I'm, I can't say, hand on my heart, that that was murder. What I can say it was very, very suspicious. And you will say a lot of people saying, oh, she was off her meds, she was crazy, she was this or that. I spoke to her every day. She called me four hours before she died and she said that she was feeling fine. Okay, now did she have stress?

[John Nance]

Yes.

[Frank Milburn]

Did she have ptsd? Certainly. Did she have hyper vigilance? Certainly, because she was under constant attack the whole time and anybody normal would. So. But she wasn't hallucinating, she wasn't delusional. You could see that every day. And you know, she's going to work, she's on the car, in the car, talking to me for half an hour. She gets to work, she's talking to me again from work with her co workers. This is someone who is like, you know, functional and working at a very high level scientifically, a highly intelligent woman.

[Nancy Grace]

Could you explain in very rudimentary terms what you mean by a directed energy attack? How does that work?

[Frank Milburn]

So you have basically there was a Russian guy who was caught with one, I believe two years ago in the States and it was in a congressional hearing in 2024. You can have like a pickup truck or a vehicle. You have like a, a sort of an emitter. It's like a, it, it emits what's like, you know, kind of like microwaves, like you'd get in a microwave oven, but in a very focused way. So then you have like a power source as well, which you can carry in the vehicle. Then you point out the window and it will go through drywalls as well. And you know, depending on the power of the emitter, it could be anywhere from like 50 meters to 100 meters, maybe more. I don't claim to be a technical expert on directed energy, but you point it where you want it to go. Presumably before that you will have established a pattern of life. So you would know roughly where. Okay, so at 9 o' clock she goes down to her laboratory or whatever and then you'd set up the directed energy or weapon emitter in your vehicle and wait for her to be at a specific point in space and time and then hit that.

[Nancy Grace]

You know what, let me go to Lauren Collins joining us. She is contributor to LA Magazine. She just wrote an incredible article dealing with this exact material. You can see her pop crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being with us tonight. What do you make of that?

[Lauren Collins]

Yes. Melissa Casillas. She went missing in June of 2025. And everything about her disappearance is incredibly chilling. And now, almost a year later, her remains have been found. And it was pretty shocking, at least to me, and I think to her family as well, because she was found six miles away from her home in Taos County, New Mexico. And this is the. The Carson National Forest area. And her family put out a statement on Facebook that they had already searched this area. Now, Melissa was an employee of Los Alamos National Laboratory, as is her husband, and she was an administrative assistant. So, you know, she didn't have, I think it was something like a. It was like a level one security clearance. But I have been learning a lot about Melissa's home life and the, I guess, the strange things around her disappearance back in June of 2025. And I think it starts with the fact that, you know, it started off as a normal day. She drove her husband to work, which is an over an hour from where she lives. And she said, I have to turn back around. I forgot my badge. And she drops her husband off. She turns back around to go home. I guess at one point, she maybe decides she's gonna work from home, or, you know, she says something and just to get everybody off her back for a while. But the point is, she tells everybody in her life something. Something different. Her husband, her daughter, Los Alamos. So she ends up staying home. She goes and she brings her daughter lunch, which is the last time she sees her daughter. Her daughter works at a coffee shop. And at one point, when people start to reach out to her, like her daughter, the texts go green. And her daughter, Sierra goes home. Her keys are there, her purse is there. You know, she finds her two phones, and she had an old phone, and then she got a new phone. Both were set to factory reset. We later find out that these phones were set to factory reset at different times. One in the morning and one in the afternoon, which is obviously very strange. This is also very strange to me. Her toothbrush, Melissa's toothbrush, and her thyroid medication were gone. So I take thyroid medication. I take Synthroid, and. And, you know, if I'm going to go somewhere, I take this medication with me so I can live a healthy life. So I found that to be really strange for someone who allegedly killed themselves. Why are you going to take this medication that, you know, kind of keeps you alive, I guess so. Melissa was last seen walking along New Mexico. I believe it's Highway 518. She was spotted on camera at one point, there was a vehicle, a blue pickup that was kind of hovering by her. Some unconfirmed reports say she got in that vehicle. Some say, you know, she didn't. But literally, she was never seen again until May 28. Her remains were found by Carson National Forest. And it also just came out. This was reported. This is not my original reporting. I have reached out to law enforcement. They have not confirmed this, so just keep that in mind. But a private detective working on the case told the Daily Mail that they. That Melissa's body was slumped up against a tree, skeletonized with a handgun nearby, and her body was untouched by animals, which I think that is a little strange if you had been there for a while. One last thing and I'll stop talking. Crime Junkie reported this Crime Junkie podcast at the end of April. Very strange. Sierra, her daughter was visited by four people at her her work about two months after Melissa disappeared. They said they were friends of Melissa's, they knew Sierra's mother, and they drove from Colorado to New Mexico to give her a graduation gift of $50. Okay. Sierra had never heard of them. This woman will call her Wendy. She gave Sierra her number. Sierra gave it to the private investigator to call. He called. And this woman's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know who Wendy is. What are you even saying? And the private investigator is like, okay, that's. That's strange. They got the name of another man that was with her. We'll call him John. Crime Junkie tied John back to working for Caterpillar Inc. Which is interesting because they have many public contracts with the department of.

[Nancy Grace]

If you know or think you know anything regarding the deaths and the disappearances of these scientists, please dial toll free. That's 1-800- call FBI, 8002-2553-2480-0225-5324. Thank you to all of our esteemed guests joining us tonight, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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