SEARCH MOVES INTERNATIONAL FOR NANCY GUTHRIE

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace — SEARCH MOVES INTERNATIONAL FOR NANCY GUTHRIE

Date: February 18, 2026
Host: Nancy Grace
Podcast: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace (iHeartPodcasts and CrimeOnline)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, mother of Savannah Guthrie, focusing on recent developments: the expansion of the search into Mexico, receiving another more threatening ransom note, and the analysis of evidence, especially concerning DNA and a key suspect. Nancy Grace brings together an expert panel—including former FBI agents, prosecutors, forensic specialists, and investigative reporters—to break down the facts, challenge conspiracy theories, and update listeners on the rapidly evolving situation.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Expansion of the Search into Mexico

• New Developments: Despite prior statements from law enforcement, the FBI confirms the search has now extended into Mexico after receiving new actionable leads.
• Ransom Note Escalation: A new, more menacing ransom note is received, featuring a different cryptocurrency address and more graphic threats.

"We are learning the search has extended into Mexico. This as another ransom note has been received...It is also much, much more menacing."
— Nancy Grace, (02:05)

Expert Input:

• Andrew Black (Former FBI, Tucson): The shift to Mexico likely follows serious new leads, including possibly credible components in the ransom communications. He also warns how fake leads and ransom notes drain law enforcement resources.

  "These things take time to run down and it takes energy and resources from the task force trying to locate Nancy Guthrie." (03:28)

2. Dismissing the "Botched Robbery" Theory

• Targeted Abduction: The panel unanimously rejects the theory that this was a random robbery gone wrong, citing the suspect’s preparedness (gear, disguised identity) and the pattern of behavior.

  "You take things out [in a robbery], you don't carry them in."
  — Nancy Grace (05:55)

• Expert Analysis:

  • Josh Colesrud (Defense Attorney, former prosecutor) & Scott Eichert (FBI CAST Team):
    • Burglars avoid confrontation and rarely take victims; a kidnapping doesn’t fit known patterns.
    • Arizona statistics confirm such a scenario—elderly kidnapping in the course of a burglary—is virtually unheard of.

      "There has never been a recorded case where there's been a burglary gone wrong where the burglary suspects end up kidnapping an elderly woman and keeping her alive."
      — Josh Colesrud (07:15)

3. DNA Evidence: Status and Limitations

• No CODIS Hits: DNA from a glove found near the scene, as well as DNA from inside the house, has not matched any entries in the national CODIS database.

  "The DNA on the random glove...did not get a CODIS hit."
  — Nancy Grace (10:42)

• Partial DNA Profiles: Some in-home DNA is only a partial profile—not enough for a national database search yet.

• Forensic DNA Process Explained:

  • Susanna Ryan (Forensic DNA Analyst):

    • Explains the stringent criteria for entering DNA into the national database vs. the Arizona state database.
    • Arizona allows for "familial searching" and includes arrestees for certain violent felonies.
    • Internationally, Interpol’s DNA database (over 280,000 profiles, including Mexico) can be utilized, but Mexico’s database is less robust for criminal investigations.

    "Arizona is one of only 12 or 13 states that allow for...searching the database for a near match...maybe a brother or a father."
    — Susanna Ryan (18:35)

  • Obtaining DNA at Scenes:

    • UV light can help find fluids (saliva, etc.), but "touch DNA" (skin cells) does not fluoresce, so swabs are focused on probable contact points.

    "Even though he's wearing gloves, that does not mean he's not transferring his DNA into that house."
    — Susanna Ryan (21:50)

4. Suspect Details and the Gun

• Distinctive Evidence:

  • A zoomed-in surveillance photo might show the suspect wearing a pinky ring—a rare detail that could help ID.

  • The suspect carries a semi-automatic handgun oddly holstered in a revolver’s holster, which is "unprofessional and awkward."

    "Placing a semiautomatic weapon...in a revolver holster is unprofessional, to say the least, and awkward."
    — Andrew Black (25:14)

  • The make/model of the gun is uncertain but believed by some to be a Walther, famously used in James Bond movies.

• Investigative Leads:

  • Panelists suggest that experts may use these details (gun, holster, ring) to track suspect purchases at local gun stores.

5. The New Ransom Note and Cryptocurrency

• Content and Credibility:

  • The newest note sent to TMZ requests payment in a cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin (possibly Ethereum or other altcoins) but is still for $6 million.

  • The note is distinctly more graphic, with threats if the ransom is not paid.

  • Panelists are skeptical of its legitimacy, viewing these as likely opportunistic scams unless the note reveals undisclosed, verifiable information.

    "I think I don't give a lot of credibility to these ransom demands...it's another opportunist."
    — Andrew Black (34:01)

• Impact on Investigation:

  • The flood of fake ransom notes is a major drain on resources. The U.S. Attorney’s office is prosecuting those who file false notes, with offenders facing up to 20 years in prison.

    "They needed to set an example because these types of things can really derail an investigation."
    — Josh Colesrud (35:18)

  • New ransom notes are only actionable if they contain details not publicized, indicating access to the victim or scene.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Rejecting the Random Robbery Theory:

  "There has never been a recorded case...where the burglary suspects end up kidnapping an elderly woman and keeping her alive. It just...doesn't happen."
  — Josh Colesrud (07:15)

• On Fake Ransom Notes and Resource Drain:

  "The FBI also put out a stern warning against people fabricating kidnap...notes. These things take time to run down and it takes energy and resources from the task force trying to locate Nancy Guthrie."
  — Andrew Black (03:28)

• Juxtaposing Expertise:

  "There are people that can look at a gun and do pretty much the same as car experts—just by sight. That's what you can prove from this one page of a police report."
  — Nancy Grace (29:13)

• On Familial DNA Searching:

  "Arizona is one of only 12 or 13 states that allow for that sort of searching...hopefully they will have that conducted because that opens up the database for a whole new category of individuals."
  — Susanna Ryan (18:35)

• On the Peculiar Holster:

  "It's...an awkward way to carry a weapon."
  — Andrew Black (25:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:05]: Breaking news—search expanded to Mexico, new ransom note
• [03:28]: FBI’s warning about fake ransom notes, resource drain
• [05:03]: Rejection of robbery/burglary theory
• [10:36]: Discussion on DNA evidence, CODIS hits
• [14:17]: Explaining national vs. Arizona DNA databases, familial searching
• [21:21]: How DNA is detected and swabbed at the scene
• [23:54]: Zooming in on suspect's distinctive pinky ring, gun analysis
• [31:10]: Details of the new, graphic ransom note
• [33:21]: Bitcoin alternatives in ransom note demands
• [34:43]: Federal prosecution of fake ransom note submitters

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Conclusion & Call to Action

The investigative team remains focused on the targeted nature of Nancy Guthrie’s abduction, rejecting random-theft theories and highlighting how false leads muddy the waters. The discussion underscores high-tech aspects—DNA, digital forensics, even cryptocurrency tracing—while urging the public to submit credible tips.

"If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free 800-225-5324... There is a $200,000 reward for information leading to Nancy Guthrie."
— Nancy Grace (36:45)

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Tone and Style: The conversation is urgent, meticulous, and sometimes skeptical—marked by Nancy Grace’s signature no-nonsense approach and reinforced by expert testimony. Listeners are encouraged to differentiate credible information from noise, and to act on authentic leads only.

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Summary prepared for those needing a comprehensive, structured understanding of this episode’s content and investigative direction.

Transcript

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[Nancy Grace]

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news Savannah Guthrie's mother Nancy Guthrie missing day 18 this as another threatening, much more threatening ransom note is received and we learn contrary to what Sheriff Nano said just 24 short hours ago, the search has extended into Mexico. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. We are learning the search has extended into Mexico. This as another ransom note has been received. This ransom note offers a different bitcoin address than the others. It is also much Much more menacing. Joining me, an all star panel to make sense of what we know right now. To Andrew Black joining us, former special Agen in charge of the Tucson office of the FBI. 27 years with the FBI, former felony prosecutor in Chicago, never a lack of business there. Currently chief of University of Hawaii Department Public safety, Andrew Black. Thank you for being with us. What do you make of the FBI now stating they are venturing into Mexico? They are asking Mexico to share information.

[Andrew Black]

It indicates to me that they've got new leads. So many leads have come in. And did you know the FBI also put out a stern warning against people fabricating kidnap, kidnapping notes or ransoming notes. Ransoming notes, excuse me. These things take time to run down and it takes energy and resources from the task force trying to locate Nancy Guthrie. So these types of leads just add to the workload of those on the ground trying to find her. And I suspect this venture into Mexico is based on additional leads that they've received, including information in one of the ransom notes.

[Nancy Grace]

As of right now, I believe it is around 40,000 tips that law enforcement has received. I'm sure at least half of those are bogus. If you want to see what type of tips are coming in, just go online, take a look at Twitter, at the, take a look at all of the zany theories. Now, on the other hand, some pretty good ideas are surfacing as well. There is a theory right now still, and I'm sure the FBI and local law enforcement is besieged with theories about botched robbery. So can we just put that to sleep now, as in euthanasia that put to sleep this is not a botched robbery. This is not a burglary gone wrong. Andrew Black, in a nutshell, why do you believe that Nancy Guthrie was not a random victim?

[Andrew Black]

No, I'm glad you're, you're emphasizing that because all the indications and the task force working this case, they believe they're working a targeted victim, Nancy, that based on the MO of the individual, he was suited up from head to toe, concealing his identity. He had a backpack. It looked like it was filled with gear. It does not have any of the ear markings of a robbery or a crime of opportunity. This looks like it was planned. And we do know there's an abduction past that it's very difficult to say what we have following all these ransom notes. That one was definitely proved to be a hoax. Individuals being prosecuted and these others that keep rolling in to TMZ and other outlets.

[Nancy Grace]

When you say it's not a robbery, obviously the guy's bringing in a ton of stuff. His backpack is stuffed to the gills. With robberies, you take things out, you don't carry them in. And let me go out to Josh Colesrud, veteran criminal defense attorney, former felony prosecutor, now founder of Colesrude Law Offices. Josh, I've never seen a burglar or a robber. And the difference is a robber robs from an individual. A burglary is when someone enters a dwelling or business without consent with the intent to commit a felony therein. That felony could be theft. That felony could be rape or ag assault. The felony could be a number of things, but typically a burglary is unlawful entry with intent to commit a theft.

[Josh Colesrud]

Yep.

[Nancy Grace]

And when the burglar. And this is statistically overwhelmingly true, when the burglar comes in and sees a person, they're like, ah. And leave. They don't want contact with the victim. They don't want to be identified. They want to come in and steal and leave, or come in and rape and leave. And if they do see a victim, they either hightail it or they kill the victim. So they cannot be identified. It's two plus two equals four.

[Josh Colesrud]

Exactly. And Arizona actually distinguishes a burglary of an occupied structure versus a burglary of an unoccupied structure. Now, you can look at the FBI statistics about how infrequent, in fact, there has never been a recorded case where there's been a burglary gone wrong, where the burglary suspects end up kidnapping an elderly woman and keeping her alive. It just, it's. It's a unicorn. It just doesn't happen. And we know that she was alive when she left because the blood trail led to the door and then suddenly just stopped like they were putting their hand over her mouth. And this has. There's no indication, no signs and symptoms that this was a burglary gone wrong. So we do need to look at motive here, and it's good that we can cross this motive off. Now we have to look at, was this based on money? Was this based on something else? And only once we determine motive can we kind of narrow down who the.

[Nancy Grace]

Suspects may be to Scott Eicher joining us. He is a founding member of the CAST cellular analysis survey team at the FBI, 22 years. Also a former homicide detective with Norfolk Police, now with Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, you and I have seen so many cases, prosecuted, investigated cases. I don't mean just talk about them. I may prosecute them. When a burglary goes wrong, that means somebody's home. When the Burglar goes in and they leave. Why in the world would a burglar or robber decide, oh, I'll just take the victim with me? Yes, she's 84 and she has a hard time walking, but no problem. It's ridiculous. Burglary, robbery gone wrong. What a waste of breath.

[Scott Eichert]

I totally agree on that. Most burglars are trying to get quick, quick, quickly in and then out. They want to grab what is valuable and then get out of that house as soon as possible. They do make mistakes and every once in a while go in when there's someone else in the house. But you're right, and I totally agree, it's very random that, you know, they would hurt the person in the house. They're more want to get away from the scene as soon as possible because they're going to, you know, call the cops on them and stuff like that.

[Nancy Grace]

We also know when you're looking at this timeline, There is a 2 o' clock event, as I have mentioned several times, where her pace, where her heart monitor spikes, or so we have been told. That's around 2am, which makes me wonder if that's the first time she sees the perp. Then 2:12 software detects the person on camera 2:28. But by now the door cam has already been disconnected. Okay, I want to talk about DNA. Dave Mack, how many more times can we say it? The DNA on the random glove found about 1.5 miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home, thrown to the side of the street, did not get a CODIS hit. That's the Combined DNA Data bank, the National Data Bank.

[Dave Mack]

Correct.

[Josh Colesrud]

Right.

[Dave Mack]

It did not. It did not get a CODIS hit. You're correct.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay. Which means, you know, if you follow that through, the DNA in the home was not connected to that glove. And the DNA, the DNA in the home did not get a CODIS hit. Is that correct?

[Dave Mack]

That is correct. It's not all of it, but it's correct.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, what do you mean by not all of it?

[Dave Mack]

Well, there was also a partial DNA collected inside of the home. That partial DNA was sent to the Florida lab, just like the DNA found on the glove and in the other end, the other DNA found in the house. The difference here is that it is a partial DNA profile and they have yet to. The people in Florida at the lab have yet to develop it out where it could be checked in codis. So that partial DNA that they've developed from inside the home has not yet been subjected to a CODIS hit because it is a partial DNA.

[Nancy Grace]

Dave Mack, you're right and I appreciate the way you said that because some reporters have stated there was a partial DNA profile and it didn't get a hit at codis. The reality is CODIS is the national data bank. It's very, very strict on what DNA profiles, what DNA it will even accept to enter into the data bank, unlike the data bank there in Arizona.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me right now is a DNA specialist. It is Susannah Ryan out of Redlands, California. Lab director, forensic DNA analyst at Pure Gold Forensics. She is a forensic DNA consultant at Ryan Forensics. 25 years experience in forensic DNA and serology. Suzanna, thank you for being with us. Explain what we are talking about right now. How difficult that the high standard there is to get DNA into the data bank codis, as opposed to the Arizona data bank, which I believe is much more likely to yield a hit.

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

Right. So there definitely are different guidelines. And it's much more stringent, much more difficult to get a profile into the national DNA database. You have to. You might be able to get a partial profile in, but it has to have a certain number of what we call the core CODIS loci. So you have to have results at least 8 of those original 13 loci. It can't be too much of a mixture.

[Nancy Grace]

There's a certain number of core CODIs. What?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

Yeah, loci or locations. So we used to look at 13. That was our goal for getting a profile into CODIS. That has since been extended to 20 loci or locations. And the reason for that is we have so many profiles in the database, we needed to start looking at more locations to make the rarity of the profile even greater because we don't want to get a false hit or an adventitious match.

[Nancy Grace]

Susanna, when you are saying loci and you're talking about locations, you need what, 14? Now it's 20. I'm in my mind comparing this to hits on a fingerprint where you have, let's just say, 10 points of ident in identical nature. You only need a certain number for it to be a match. Is that what you're calling a loci?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

Yeah, that's a fairly good comparison. It's basically different areas on the DNA molecule. We are not testing the whole molecule. We're picking certain areas that are known to vary greatly between people. So that way we can differentiate between people by just looking at these particular areas. We don't have to try to test the entire DNA molecule.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, so I'm trying to get a layperson's understanding of what you're saying. So you have to have now 20 loci, 20 eccentricities about the DNA to make it different and easily identifiable.

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

So that's the goal. That's. If you had a single source profile, you had a reference sample, you are required to have all 20 of those areas to put it into CODIS. If you're talking about a forensic sample, the requirements are not as strict. You can have less than that, but you still have to have a certain number of locations or this information. And it has to meet what we call a rarity index. It has to be more rare than what the size of the database is, because if it's not, you could have a false hit. It could match against someone that is in the database, but is not actually your perpetrator. And that's specifically the national database. So you're correct that the Arizona database, that is going to have less stringent requirements because there are less people in the database.

[Nancy Grace]

So tell me, what is in the AZ database that is not allowed in the national database?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

Well, we have arrestees in the Arizona database. Not all states allow for arrestees to be entered into the database. Now, this would be particular individuals arrested of very particular felonies. There will be legislation defining, you know, who is eligible for upload into the Arizona database. You could have forensic unknowns like who.

[Nancy Grace]

Who gets in.

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

So I don't know the specific requirements for the state of Arizona, but it's going to be. It's. It's not going to be someone that's, you know, picked up for some misdemeanor offense. It's going to be particular violent felony offenses that a person who has simply been arrested for this crime and not yet convicted, their profile can go into that Arizona database. Another thing that Arizona has that not very many states have is the ability to do familial searching. And so sometimes when people hear that, they think, oh, we're talking about genetic genealogy. But this is totally different. This is the ability to search the Arizona database for a near match. So we've already searched. We know that we don't have a hit on this DNA profile. But let's look for someone who is closely related, maybe a brother or a father. And Arizona is one of only 12 or 13 states that allow for that sort of searching. So I hope that they do conduct that. That's not something that's automatically done. That's something that has to be requested. So hopefully they will have that conducted because that opens up the database for a whole new category of individuals.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, you're hearing Susanna Ryan speaking about her line of expertise, DNA. Another question. We now know the FBI has reached its tentacles into Mexico. Is there an international DNA database, Susanna?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

There is the Interpol database. So that is. I think it's over 80 countries that are part of Interpol where they will upload qualifying DNA profiles, mostly, you know, unsolved cases like this or other felony cases. And I believe There are over 280,000 profiles in the Interpol database. Mexico does participate in that program.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait, how many did you say?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

Over 280,000 profiles. Wow.

[Nancy Grace]

In the Interpol database. And that includes Mexico?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

It does. Now, I will say that Mexico in general, you know, they do have a DNA database, but it's not on the same level as our CODIS combined DNA Index System database. A lot of what they're focusing on in Mexico is identifying missing persons or, you know, if they have unidentified remains. That's a lot more of their focus than the criminal investigative side. And it's not all connected at a national level at this point.

[Nancy Grace]

Wow. Okay. And very quickly, I want to talk to you about how DNA is obtained at a scene, for instance, through UV lighting, causing the DNA. Well, does it cause the DNA to fluoresce? But when you look at DNA left on a scene, it fluoresces. And you need near dark or complete dark. Or you could use goggles that are tinted red, yellow, or orange to block out light. How does that work?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

Right. So what you're referring to is sometimes we use something called an alternate light source, and that helps us identify things like saliva. Those sort of body fluids will fluoresce. Unfortunately, other types of DNA, especially touch or skin cell DNA, does not fluoresce. I wish it did. I wish there was a way for us to be able to just see it by some invention like that. But what we have to do is use our best educated guess as to what would have been contacted. Where did this person have to touch to enter the house, for example? Is there anything moved in the home that it looks like this person contacted? And I would imagine that they are focusing on items like that, especially, as you pointed out, with him touching this perpetrator. He's got a flashlight in his mouth that he's moving around, that he's probably touching. So even though he's wearing gloves, that does not mean he's not transferring his DNA into that house.

[Nancy Grace]

And saliva is so DNA rich. He touches it multiple times. He touches the holster of the gun multiple times. Then he reaches out to the doorknob. And we were discussing earlier, Susanna, how the home was found with the front door unlocked and all the lights on in the front of the house, which is not Nancy Guthrie's routine. He turned on the light switch. He probably turned on the light switch in Nancy's room or touched her doorknob, which would be an excellent conduit for saliva DNA. It just takes a trace amount. So I guess you're saying that with certain DNA, such as saliva, sperm, urine, you would use the alternate light Source. But for touch DNA, it does not fluoresce. So you would swab the likely suspects. The doorknob, light switch, furniture, something that's been moved in the home. Do I have it so far?

[Weight Watchers Member (Hailey/Sharia)]

Yes, 100%. Yes.

[Nancy Grace]

Speaking of the gun, straight out to Andrew Black joining us, former special agent in charge of the Tucson FBI office. Let's talk about the gun. Oh, oh, wait. I've got to show you a picture. Hold on. Apparently our perp wears a pinky ring. Take a look at this. We've zoomed in on. There you go. Look at that. Andrew Black. That's his right hand. I have analyzed and analyzed and got multiple other people to analyze. Was it his ring finger? But it appears to be pinky. Look at that.

[Andrew Black]

Very stylish.

[Nancy Grace]

Look at the shape of that. Hey, move out just a little bit more. Do you guys agree this is the pinky? At first I thought it would be the ring finger. Move out a little bit more. Move out a little bit more so we can see the full hand. Yeah. Okay. What do you think, Andrew?

[Andrew Black]

That's a tough one for me. If they're saying it's on the pinky, then it is a pinky ring. And he has some sort of style or flair. Obviously, he doesn't have that same flare in his approach to committing a home invasion. As we saw in the video that we're looking at right now. The gun that appears to be a semi automatic weapon. As you can see, the. The handle, there's no hammer. It's. And it looks like there's a magazine at the end of it. The holster is really strange. I haven't seen one like that. That appears to be a revolver. And you can see there's a snap going over where the hammer would be on a revolver. So it's a really unusual and unprofessional method for carrying really any type of weapon in front of your groin like this. But placing a semiotic weapon, which could slide out quite easily in a revolver holster is unprofessional, to say the least, and awkward.

[Nancy Grace]

Could you very slowly go through again what you said? For those listening that are not gun aficionados, you started with saying it is a revolver holster. Now please explain your reasoning.

[Andrew Black]

Okay. There are two basic handguns. There's a revolver which has a cylinder. And each time the trigger is pulled or squeezed, the cylinder turns, the hammer comes back, and then it hits the back of the casing of the chambered round in the cylinder. A semiautomatic pistol, like we see here. The firing mechanism is different. The rounds of ammunition are not in a cylinder. They're in the handle of the gun in what is called a magazine. That's where you load the rounds of ammunition. And rather than an exposed hammer coming back, typically, very typically, a semiautomatic pistol will not have a visible hammer. There are certain models, but this is not one of them. As you can see, it's flat. And so this is a weapon. You can see there's a black strap that should be over the revolver. If this was a revolver securing the hammer. Here we have a semiautomatic pistol loosely sticking into this revolver holster. And it's not what it was intended for. Doesn't mean it can't work. It's working here, but it's an awkward way to carry a weapon.

[Nancy Grace]

So this is a semiautomatic weapon. Now, what more can you tell about the gun? Many people think it's a Walther.

[Andrew Black]

Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that. Because of the graininess of the picture, I. I don't want to commit to saying it's one model over another. And there are various models of Walther, but that's the popular belief. Walther or a similar type, which is a smaller type of handgun, easily concealable. That's what James Bond carries of one. One version of the gun that he carries. And yeah, definitely semi automatic. I can't say for sure myself that it is a Walther, but it resembles one. And this helps. And that may be why one of the leads we've heard about is the purchase of Walther weapons at gun stores in the area. So this is a positive lead to follow up on, of course, along with the unusual holster he's using.

[Nancy Grace]

Andrew Black, what did you say about James Bond?

[Andrew Black]

James Bond carried a Walther P similar type of weapon in the movies. And that's the manufacturer, apparently, of this weapon or what experts are saying. I can't identify it for sure, but that's what I've read. From what's being reported on type of.

[Nancy Grace]

Weapon suspected of, I cannot identify it either. Many people have speculated it is a Walther. To Scott Eicher, what do you believe the FBI can do with this or law enforcement to identify the type of gun? Because I believe guns are like cars. And I've worked with the car theft division at APD Atlanta Police Department, and they're brilliant. They can look at a car coming a block away and go, oh, yeah, that's a 1995 Toyota Camry. Like, how do you know that? Because they do it all Day long. Like I can look at a police report and say, oh, this is aggravated assault, this is kidnapping. This is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what you can prove from this one page of a police report. They can look at a car and tell me what the make, model and year is. There are people that can look at a gun and do pretty much the same.

[Scott Eichert]

Yes, there's experts all around the world that are very good at visually identifying a weapon. Now, as Andrew said, this is grainy photo. We don't see the whole weapon itself. So, I mean, I suggest that a lot of people are just making their best estimate of our guess of what this is, but we don't know for sure. Obviously the gun store visits are helpful and hopefully we can maybe narrow down suspects by going to the gun stores and hopefully find someone that purchased that type of semiautomatic weapon. We've got a lot of things to go on and it's a lot of work to go to all the gun stores and all the Walmarts because we're looking for who bought the people that bought the type of holster. I agree with Andrew in the aspect that holster is not made for that gun and that that probably will allow that gun to very easily slip out of that holster. Holster.

[Nancy Grace]

Back to Dave Mack joining us, crime stories investigative reporter. Now, another missive has been received by Harvey Levin over at tmz. It's much more threatening. What do we know about the latest ransom note?

[Dave Mack]

Well, Harvey Levin and his team at TMZ say this particular new ransom note is highly sophisticated, involving a different cryptocurrency than bitcoin. We know that was the, the main play earlier was that they wanted it and paid out in bitcoin. The ransomware did. Now TMZ obtains this new note and saying it's highly sophisticated. I'm not really sure what that means, except that the demand involving cryptocurrency other than bitcoin is still for about the same amount, around $6 million. The email demanding this dollar amount to a different account number too, than had been previously received by tmz. And there's a side note to all of this, Nancy. The email graphically describes the consequences of not paying up, of not following through with this ransom demand. I don't know again exactly what it is, but they're saying very specific, graphic consequences. Also, the FBI is stepping up and they're saying if you decide you want to try to pull off a fake ransom on the family, you will be going to prison for a long, long time. They're adding this to the mix because they're fed up with all of the sidetracks and chasing rabbits. But again, you mentioned it. Another missive sent to tmz, this one different than had been previously received.

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[Nancy Grace]

CRIME STORIES with Nancy GR. Andrew Black let's talk about bitcoin alternatives. You've got, let's see, Ethereum Eth, you've got Litecoin LTC XRP for crossing border settlements. You've got Binance, bnb, Cardano. So many bitcoin alternatives. What do you make of the most recent ransom note demanding an alternative to bitcoin? Same amount, six mil.

[Andrew Black]

You know, I, I think I, I don't give a lot of credibility to these ransom demands. They take up a lot of energy on law enforcement, but you have to follow up on them. So, you know, in my opinion, it's another opportunist, another crime of opportunity. Yet law enforcement has to follow up on this because, you know, it's a lead. And if, God forbid, this person does know something about who's holding Nancy or where she is and you neglect it, you know, you can't go back. So as the leads come in, you prioritize them in the command center. You have a team that does that and then you follow those leads where they, where they take you back to.

[Nancy Grace]

Josh Colesrew joining us, former federal prosecutor, now criminal defense attorney in this jurisdiction, Arizona. Question to you regarding false well, any ransom note is a crime, but false ransom notes are also a crime. Explain the legal theory and the penalties behind a false ransom note. We already know Killella has been charged under 18 USC 875. So he's looking at time in a slammer for a fake ransom note.

[Josh Colesrud]

Yeah. Derek Colella from San Diego was charged with two counts submitting a fake ransom note to Nancy. Sorry. To Savannah Guthrie. And he faces up to 20 years in prison for those counts. And I was really happy that the U.S. attorney here, you know, threw the book at him. You know, they needed to set an example because these types of things can really derail an investigation. Takes time and resources away from investigating real leads. And here with this new ransom note, you know, what I want to know is what indicators are there that they have new information that has not been released to the public or are there personal anecdotes that could be provided by Nancy Guthrie herself to show that she's still alive? You know, we just don't have any of that information here. And you know, I have to agree with my colleagues that I'm very skeptical at this point in time that this is a legitimate ransom note.

[Scott Eichert]

Scott eichert, way in this new ransom note. I mean, we've been told that it was very graphic on what's going to happen to Nancy if they don't pay. But why would you have to put that into the ransom note? I mean, Savannah and the family have already said we will pay. So that would give at least to me another indication that this is another fake ransom.

[Nancy Grace]

If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free 8002-2553-2480-0225-5324 or 5 if you wish to remain anonymous. 5208-8274-6352-0882, 7463. There is a $200,000 reward for information leading to Nancy Guthrie. That's nearly a quarter of a million dollars. Thank you to our guests tonight, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night and until then, good night, friend.

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