Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Subway Pervy Pitchman Jared Fogle Makes Sandwiches Behind Bars

Release Date: October 18, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace
Guests: Cheryl McCollum (Cold Case Research Institute), Jennifer Zukowski (Investigative Reporter), Dr. Chloe Carmichael (Psychologist)

Episode Overview

Nancy Grace investigates the shocking rise and fall of Jared Fogle, the former Subway spokesperson, delving into his criminal activities, current prison life, and ongoing legal maneuvers. The episode exposes Fogle’s crimes, critiques the legal system’s handling of sex offenders, and analyzes his attempts to overturn his conviction. Grace, her guests, and real audio from Fogle himself provide a harrowing account of betrayal, exploitation, and persistent entitlement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Double Life of Jared Fogle

• Background: Jared Fogle became a national celebrity after claiming to lose 245 pounds eating Subway, starring in 300+ commercials, and launching a children’s charity.

• Shocking Fall: Despite a wholesome public image, Fogle orchestrated and admitted to a five-year pattern of sexually exploiting children, including statutory rape and child pornography (03:33–08:00).

  “He had it all. A beautiful wife, children, a gorgeous home, a TV star. But what did he do? … Arrange sex with minors and transporting them across state lines to do it.”
  – Nancy Grace, 00:41

2. The Chilling Tapes

• Authentic Evidence: Nancy plays transcripts from covertly recorded phone conversations between Fogle and his accomplice, revealing predatory intent and method (03:32–06:01).

• Fogle’s Language: The tapes are deeply disturbing, with Fogle and the associate discussing how to manipulate and abuse middle school children.

  “Just talk to them, just get to know them… do a little touchy-feely things with them.”
  – Jared Fogle Accomplice, 04:31

• Expert Reaction:

  “I actually feel nauseous hearing that. … It’s very rare you actually get to hear the perv speaking.”
  – Nancy Grace, 06:01

3. Pedophilia: Psychology & Recidivism

• Expert Analysis:
  Cheryl McCollum and Dr. Chloe Carmichael highlight that sexual attraction to children is rarely, if ever, “cured.” Prison and counseling do not change underlying desires; awareness and self-control are necessary, which Fogle notably lacks (06:58–12:57).

  “If you are attracted to sixth grade girls, that does not go away... no amount of counselors gonna change my mind.”
  – Cheryl McCollum, 06:58

  "Pedophiles actually very rarely learn to stop being attracted... What pedophiles do learn is how to at least control their urges—if they want to."
  – Dr. Chloe Carmichael, 11:27

• Nancy's Perspective:

  "You can't go to jail and get quote, cured."
  – Nancy Grace, 11:23

4. Fogle’s Prison Life & Legal Tactics

• Current Status: Fogle is incarcerated at Englewood Federal Correctional Institution, Colorado, working as a prison chef; he’s been attacked multiple times (01:30, 14:43).

• Entitlement & Appeals:
  Fogle continues to file motions challenging his conviction on technicalities, including lawsuits against prosecutors, a judge, and the Attorney General, seeking $57 million in damages (08:00–10:12).

  "He's actually claiming that he wouldn't have pleaded guilty except for the improper charge… and that being imprisoned is violating his due process… suing the judge and the prosecutors for $57 million."
  – Jennifer Zukowski, 08:16

  “He has passed that threshold of return. He is a dangerous predator, period.”
  – Cheryl McCollum, 18:20

5. The Extent of Fogle’s Crimes

• Nature and Victims:
  The investigation included review of 159,634 text messages, 27,140 emails, 47,623 images, and nearly 3,400 videos. Fourteen victims were clearly identified, with ages ranging from 10–17 (15:49–16:56).

  “He agreed to pay $100,000 to each of 14 unnamed children. Those are the ones that we know of.”
  – Nancy Grace, 19:02

6. The Failure of Redemption Narratives

• Charity as a Shield:
  Fogle’s public work—especially his charity for kids—is reframed as a calculated move to access victims (20:55).
  Nancy and her guests reject explanations from defense psychiatrists that paint Fogle’s behavior as a food addiction transferred to hypersexuality, seeing these as absurd excuses (22:39–25:31).

  “You’d give them a healthy meal before you molested them? Okay. Yeah. I’m so not impressed.”
  – Nancy Grace, 20:55

• Fogle's Posture in Prison:
  Despite his crimes, Fogle maintains a privileged existence: he exercises, reads, and follows sports, while attempting every legal maneuver to secure an early release (25:29).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fogle’s Never-Ending Appeals:

  "He has filed dozens and dozens of motions to either get his sentence reduced or just thrown out. So this guy is not giving up.”
  – Nancy Grace, 17:28

• On the Defense's “Addiction” Excuse:

  “A psychiatrist for the defense... claimed Fogle had a food addiction that transformed into hypersexuality. Okay, you know what? That's a total crock of crap.”
  – Nancy Grace, 25:31

• On Systemic Danger:

  “Let me out so I can freaking do it again. That's all this is about.”
  – Cheryl McCollum, 18:20

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:41: Nancy opens on the case and Fogle’s public persona
• 03:32–06:01: Audio from tapes revealing Fogle’s predatory behavior
• 06:58: Cheryl McCollum on the persistence of pedophilic attraction
• 08:16: Jennifer Zukowski explains Fogle’s legal challenges and lawsuits
• 11:27: Dr. Chloe Carmichael on recidivism and rehabilitation myths
• 15:49–16:56: Scope of digital evidence and number of victims disclosed
• 18:20: Cheryl McCollum’s assessment of Fogle’s unchanged risk
• 20:55–22:39: Discussion on Fogle’s charity and public manipulation
• 25:29–26:49: Nancy criticizes Fogle’s quality of life in prison and repeated appeals

Episode Tone

Direct, unflinching, and emotionally charged—Nancy and her panel of experts express outrage, disgust, and skepticism, aiming to highlight the severity of Fogle’s crimes and the ongoing threats posed by powerful sex offenders. The tone is urgent and confrontational, with frequent memorable turns of phrase and condemnation of legal loopholes.

This episode is a powerful exposé, combining evidence, expert analysis, and pointed commentary to leave listeners with no illusions about the nature of Fogle’s crimes—or the dangers of misplaced narratives of redemption.