← Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
TEEN GIRL CHEERLEADER DEAD ON CARNIVAL CRUISE SHIP, FBI JOINS INVESTIGATION
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host/Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
Hey Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a.
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Narrator/Reporter
Very happy half off holiday because right.
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Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
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To be clear, that's half price, not half the service.
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Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.
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Yeah, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront.
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Nancy Grace
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Nancy Grace
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Podcast Host/Announcer
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Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [02:05]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
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- [03:07]
Nancy Grace
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, A gorgeous little teenage girl cheerleader dead on a Carnival cruise ship. Tonight, the FBI joining the investigation. I'm Nancy Grace. This is CRIME Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
- [03:30]
Narrator/Reporter
18 year old Anna Kepner, a brilliant straight A student from Titusville, Florida, embarks on what is meant to be a celebratory cruise marking the end of her high school journey. This trip is supposed to be a joyful escape, unaware of what is to come.
- [03:45]
Nancy Grace
This little girl was a high school cheerleading star, a star in so many ways. She had all A's. She was already set to go into the military, had already spoken to recruiters, had her mind made up to serve her country. Now she's dead on a cruise ship. You know, maybe I'm the crazy one here. Straight out to Susan Hendricks joining us. You know her well, investigative journalist who shot to fame on hln and then her close coverage of the Delphi double murder. She even wrote a book in all of her spare time down the my Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi. SUSAN hendricks, this little girl should be on her way to college or into the military. How is it so many people keep dropping dead on cruise ships? Look at her. She's a baby.
- [04:38]
Susan Hendricks (Investigative Journalist)
Yeah, she is. And I was looking through her TikTok last night. I have a daughter around the same age and you see just how young and full of life she was with the dances, going on this cruise with her grandmother. Loving to do that. I even saw on her tiktoker dancing with her grandmother, full of life. Her grandmother calling her Anna Banana, so much ahead of her. And really what happened, that's what we're trying to piece together.
- [05:03]
Nancy Grace
SUSAN hendricks, we have taken the twins on a lot of cruises. Okay, like four, five Disney cruises. That's my comparison. A Disney cruise where everything is in a controlled environment. I guess you could. I wouldn't. But you could let your children run wild. But I just don't understand how a young teen girl ends up dead and we can't even get the right time of death. Isn't it true, Susan Hendricks, that at first we were all told this little girl died 11 8, but now we're learning they even had the date wrong by 24 hours? She died 117 around 11:17am Isn't that true?
- [05:58]
Susan Hendricks (Investigative Journalist)
Yeah. And the cruise ship docked back when it was supposed to on Saturday. So we're learning now. You're right. 11:17 on Friday. We're trying to piece together exactly what happened, but it seemed like she loved cruises. She was excited to go. They were looking forward to it. How did she end up dead and what happened to her? It feels like everyone's tight lipped.
- [06:20]
Nancy Grace
Well, I'll tell you, the FBI on it now that's never a good thing when you have the FBI picking through your trash and going over your movement. Joining me there on the scene is private investigator Robert Crispin. He is joining us at the port of Miami where so many cruise ships depart, including this one. He is the owner and founder of Crispin Special Investigations. But that's just part of his story. He was with the former federal Task Force Officer, U.S. department of Justice, DEA in that jurisdiction, Miami Field Division, former homicide crimes against children. And he's@crispin investigations.com Crispin this is right up your alley, but I can't stress it enough. In a moment I'm going to go to our friend Joe Scott Morgan on this. Robert, they can't. I mean did they know their tale from a hole in the ground? A cruise ship investigating a potential homicide and they don't even get the time of death, even the day of death. Right. Do you know how many witnesses are now lost forever because they didn't get the TOD time of death down 24 hours. Plus Crispin who was with her on 11 7, we don't know. What was she doing? What did she eat, what did she drink? Did she leave on a port adventure? It's all gone. Crispin.
- [07:52]
Unidentified Expert (Possibly Maritime or Law Enforcement)
Yeah. Listen, this is why the FBI is involved. And when you get 12 nautical miles off the coast, pretty much up the entire coast, it's international waterway. And the problem is these types of cases, Nancy at sea are an issue for the FBI.
- [08:09]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
Why?
- [08:10]
Unidentified Expert (Possibly Maritime or Law Enforcement)
Because the problem with these cruise ships are they're crime scenes that are moving constantly. If you have evidence that was discarded out, it's in 5,000ft of water. That's a problem for the FBI.
- [08:22]
Nancy Grace
Joining us, an all star panel to make sense of what we're learning tonight, straight out to death investigator, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, the author of Blood Beneath My Feet. And you can hear him now on a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joseph Scott, thank you for being with us. It's a death investigator's nightmare. It's a floating crime scene. How did the little girl die? Who was with her? What time did she die? Not just the cod cause of death, the manner of death. And just like you heard Robert Crispin say accurately, those guests, over 5,000 of them on this particular cruise ship have scattered to the four corners of the earth. They weren't all even from the U.S. so what do you do first?
- [09:14]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
Well, you try to get access to the area where she was actually living in that cabin that I assume that she was in there with her grandmother, bits of evidence that are contained therein, all the stuff that was in her baggage. But here's one of the problems, Nancy. Once that stuff is removed out of there, you lose all context for the rest of the investigation. Here's another problem. We don't have an established timeline. You had mentioned earlier, has she ingested anything? What kind of meals did she take on board? Who was she hanging out with on the ship? Was there anybody that could have slipped or something at some point in time? Did she have access to alcohol when she's in international waters? So all of this works out to be just an absolute nightmare scenario. The upside here, though, I think, if there is any, is that when they put in, they put in to Miami. And Miami Dade has one of the finest medical examiner offices in the country. So they are going to be working this case from a medical legal perspective. And we're talking about toxicology, and we're also talking about a physical examination here because we want to try to rule out, if we can, any kind of trauma that might be there. That's one of the reasons we're waiting. We don't have a COD yet, but they're also waiting on tox. And therein might lie the answers.
- [10:33]
Nancy Grace
Joe Scott, this is a morbid question, but it must be asked, where are dead bodies stored on a cruise ship? They actually have a location for them?
- [10:46]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
Yeah, they do. Having worked in New Orleans for many years, a major port, I worked several cases coming off of ships, everything from tankers to cruisers, you name it. Even out on oil platforms, there are locations where bodies can be stored. Sometimes they're referred to as a cool room. Other times I've actually had remains that were placed into a literal deep freeze. And so it's going to vary from structure to structure or from platform to platform. With a cruise ship, though, they have a dedicated area most of the time. And that's a big, that's a big issue, Nancy, because in the medical legal world, we want to try to put the body into stasis in death so that you're not going to have or you're going to, you're not going to have any kind of degrading of the remains because that's going to compromise evidence as well. And how well was the body protected? You know, I began to think about elements like trace evidence. It drives me nuts thinking about this because you're going to have people that are unversed in this area. They're going to be handling her remains. And this is your primary bit of evidence here. I'm not being disrespectful to the dead, but you know, and I know that that's the issue here. You have to protect this body at all costs because therein lie all of the answers.
- [12:04]
Nancy Grace
Just got Morgan joining us, death investigator with literally thousands of death investigations under his belt. Joe Scott, you just said the condition of the body. Let's just think for a moment, you know, how small the cabins are on these cruise ships. Think of her. She's basically in a tin can in a closed room in the Caribbean, hot as H E double L. You know, the implications that has for a dead human body. You lose evidence with every minute that ticks by.
- [12:42]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
Yes, you do. And that, that's one of the major problems, particularly when you begin to think about her tissues. And just let me kind of lay this out. This is there are going to be three. The body in total is going to be examined. Her body will. But there are three major areas you're looking at anatomically here with a person this age that suddenly passes away. The heart, the lungs and the brain. And so you want to be able to preserve those so that you're not going to have any decomposition or degradation of the body to the point where it's going to compromise any kind of evidence that you can recover that rests therein. That's why it's so important to be able to keep her remains so that they are as intact as you possibly can until the ME in Miami can retrieve the remains and examine them as they should be examined.
- [13:32]
Nancy Grace
Joining us now, Spencer Ehrenfeld. He is the lawyer for the family of Dulce White, another woman that dies at sea. He is known as the cruise ship lawyer and for a reason, he takes on these seemingly impossible cases and actually wins them. Not on behalf of the cruise ship, on behalf of the families. Spencer, I wouldn't trust a cruise ship investigator as far as I could throw them. Not that they're evil people. I mean, for Pete's sake, they don't even have the right day of death, much less time of death. We had to get a medical examiner in the States to give me a time of death. I mean, really, if they can't even do that. Did you hear Joe Scott Morgan? He's the professor of forensics describing what all has been lost because of their ineptness.
- [14:29]
Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
Nancy, the security officers on cruise ships are really nothing more than glorified mall cops. Most of them have little to no training in law enforcement, in forensics investigation. This is one of the primary problems that people have on cruise ships is they expect that they're actually being guarded by a police level security force. These are men and women, primarily from the Philippines, from Indonesia, who could have been a bartender, could have been a dishwasher, but they got a job on the security.
- [15:05]
Nancy Grace
Stop, stop, stop. Please stop. Okay, My ears are bleeding. You've made my ears bleed. Did you say the cruise ship investigators were a bartender back on the island? And now they're the investigator on the cruise ship.
- [15:22]
Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
The entire training they've had in being a security guard is generally the training that the cruise line gives them. They're recruited in these countries and they apply for different positions. And if they get a job in security, then the cruise line trains them themselves. They usually have no military background.
- [15:42]
Nancy Grace
You're killing me. You just gagged me. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I just opened a whole can of worms right there. You're hearing Spencer Ehrenfield talking, The cruise ship lawyer, Joe Scott. Do you know how hard I had to train to go on crime scenes as a district attorney, an assistant district attorney? How hard did you have to train to be a death investigator? And now I got a bouncer from some bar from the Caribbean. And that's the cruise ship security, that's the investigator.
- [16:18]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
Yeah. And here's another piece, if you like that one. Let me give you this one as well. We work in a world now in forensic science where we're talking about molecular evidence now. So to my colleague's earlier point where there's. There's no manner of death ruled at this point in time. If we're talking about a homicide here, we start to get off in areas like DNA. We treat scenes many times now, Nancy, those of us that are professionals, as if we're going into Surgery. You know, you see us in the Tyvek suits with the hoods on and the gloves and the booties and the mask and all this. Well, there's a reason we do that, is because the evidence many times is very, very fragile. And when you don't, when you don't have specific evidence at a scene that's going to point something, you know, just like Coburger, just like CO Burger.
- [17:08]
Nancy Grace
No eyewitnesses, no confession, nothing. No fingerprints, no footprints, no nothing. And if it had not been for molecular forensic evidence, a quadruple homicide would have gone unsolved. There was no motive, there was no connection that we knew of between Kohberger, his four victims. The state was just hanging in the wind. We were gone until people like you came in with molecular evidence. Think about it. The evidence was found on the snap of the hilt of a knife and got him dead in the water because of molecular evidence. There is no way that investigators on this cruise ship got molecular evidence.
- [17:53]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
No. I just hope that they didn't compromise those things that are there. Sometimes it's better just to keep your hands off. But we know that that didn't happen because in fact, they have to take care of the body. That goes back to what you said earlier about placing the body in a location that is at minimum, cool, hopefully colder. More like what we have actually in the morgue. Because at that point in time we can cease or slow down the process of decomposition. And also it secures the body. How do I know where her remains were on that ship that other people didn't have access to her body? You know, you go to the ME's office and look, you're going to have to pass through several layers or gates of security in order to get access to a body. You're talking about a rolling city here with 5,000 occupants, just like our colleague said earlier, that are in the wind. They're gone now, Nancy, how are you going to track them down, you know.
- [18:46]
Nancy Grace
Back to Spencer Ehrenfield, the cruise ship lawyer? Spencer, let me tell you a story about what happened to us on a Disney cruise through no fault of Disney. So you know, they have like a tween hangout. I believe it's called the Edge, which is edgy, where like if you're 11, 10 to say 14, you can go there and pretend you're 18, right? And you play games. Believe me, I scoped the whole thing out. They play games, they watch Disney movies, of course, and they have like Kool Aid and pretzels and there's A guard at the door, the only entry exit. I checked the whole thing out. So we went on another Disney cruise and John Lucy wanted to come back from the edge and come to the room. So I was already in my pajamas, shorts and a T shirt and went to edge to go get her. I bring her back with strict instructions to John David do not leave until I get back. He's like sure. I go back 45 minutes later, get Lucy all set. He's not there. He was with a little friend from our hometown and they left together. He thought it would be okay because I always say travel in a group. I was running in my pajamas up and down the hallways of the Disney cruise line trying to find John David because you know how fast somebody could have dragged him into one of their rooms, molested him and killed him just like that. Out of all those thousands of rooms, I went berserk. Now granted, that was all on John David, not on Disney. In fact, we went on another Disney cruise after that, that following summer where I would not I had him handcuffed to me. He could not leave Lucy here, John David here. No matter where they went, I was there. SPENCER this is so wrong. And people wonder why I'm so angry and upset. This is I'm not mad at the investigator who doesn't know what he she is doing. I'm mad because this is the only thing left that we can do for this little girl. This is it is to solve her case.
- [21:00]
Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
Spencer well, probably Nancy and I agree with you. The most important evidence for me would be the surveillance video. These cruise lines are wired like casinos from bow to stern with high definition CCTV covering all the common areas, covering the elevators, covering the dining rooms, the pool, the night hole. And my question is where's the cctv? In my experience, and I've seen Carnival thousands of times, they will either not have all the CCTV or failed to preserve it. Which is why I think the FBI boarding the ship the minute it got to Port Miami was essential for the preservation of the cctv. They're going to get it off the ship and the FBI will take possession of it before Carnival destroys it, loses it tapes over it. I think the cameras are going to tell a lot of the story of.
- [22:00]
Narrator/Reporter
What happened to her senior year at Temple Christian. Anna paints her parking spot to match her favorite movie, Clueless, and is ecstatic to be back on the field cheering for the lions. Licensed to boat and scuba, she enjoys making tiktoks with her friends and brother. Anna plans on joining the military in fact, she's waiting on the results of her ASVAB testing to determine which jobs will suit her best. Anna's grandparents gift her a spring Cruise as an 18th birthday gift. Anna enjoys the experience so much she books a six day trip with stops in Ocho Rios, Jamaica, the Grand Caymans and Cozumel, Mexico. Anna Kepner is known for her infectious spirit and love for people with dreams of serving her community through military service. That's why what happens on her trip devastates all who know her.
- [22:45]
Nancy Grace
How long had this little girl been dead in her room if that's where she was actually found?
- [22:52]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
Lindsay Allison, a passenger staying just down the hall from Anna's room, remembers crew responding to a medical call around 11am Friday morning.
- [23:00]
Nancy Grace
Security never left. They guarded the room very well.
- [23:03]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
Though she doesn't know what happened, Allison can imagine the terror that ensues when your vacation turns into a floating prison.
- [23:09]
Nancy Grace
You're out in the middle of the ocean.
- [23:11]
Podcast Host/Announcer
You can't go anywhere.
- [23:12]
Nancy Grace
You can't get on land.
- [23:13]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
You can't flee. Early Saturday, the last day of the Horizons voyage, a passenger is found dead. The cruise ship returns to port, asking passengers to disembark quickly. The FBI now investigating the death from.
- [23:27]
Nancy Grace
Our friends at Fox 13.
- [23:35]
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- [24:34]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [25:04]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
Attention parents and grandparents. If you're looking for a gift that's more than just a toy, give them something that inspires confidence and adventure all year long. Give them a Guardian bike, the easiest bike to learn on, safest to ride, and the number one kids bike on the market. With USA Made Kids Specific frames and patented safety technology, kids are learning to ride in just one day. No training wheels needed. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike and the New York Times and Wirecutters top pick three years in a row. This holiday season, Guardian is offering their biggest, cheapest deal of the year. Over 40% in savings on all bikes plus $100 in free accessories. Each bike arrives 99% assembled, so setup takes minutes, not hours. Whether it's their very first ride or their next big upgrade, Guardian makes every pedal feel safe, smooth and fun. Join over 500 happy families who've discovered the magic of Guardian. Visit guardianbikes.com to shop now that's Guardian Bikes.
- [26:06]
Narrator/Reporter
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- [26:37]
Nancy Grace
Stories with Nancy Grace Another debacle at sea. A case that may never be solved now of this little cheerleader eerily reminiscent of the so called missing groom.
- [26:55]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
This is Captain Michael. May I give your attention please?
- [26:58]
Nancy Grace
A person may have gone overboard last night.
- [27:02]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
George Smith and his bride spend the night gambling with friends they met on the Royal Caribbean's Brilliance of the Seas. When the ship's casino closes, the group heads to the club, but Jennifer leaves after a drunken argument with George. By the time the club closes at 3:30, the young men have to carry George back to his room. At 4. Around 4:30, neighbors hear a sickening thud, which investigators believe was George's body slamming against a lifeboat canopy before falling into the ocean below.
- [27:31]
Nancy Grace
I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that my son was murdered on that cruise ship. There's so much evidence, it's overwhelming.
- [27:41]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
It's just been a complete and Awful.
- [27:44]
Nancy Grace
Nightmare for my family. That last bit from our friends. At 48 hours, I personally investigated the George Smith missing groom case. Jo Scott Morgan, you also have studied the case. I spoke with his mother, his sister, at length, went through all of the evidence. There is no way. Did you know, they tried to claim he fell over the rail when the friends. Friends that he just met in the bar that night, and they were all drinking absinthe, which, you know, I believe it's outlawed in certain jurisdictions. So powerful. They left him in his room. And the rail to George Smith's balcony was chest high, and there were several rails, so nobody could just fall over the side. He was thrown overboard. And the evidence is overwhelming that he was murdered. I agree with his mother that you just heard speaking, but it's never been solved because everyone scattered, as I said, to the four corners of the earth.
- [28:49]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
Yeah. You take a look just at that image of the blood deposition alone. You know, how is that explained? And again, this is another great example of how. How can the scene be processed or secured? Because I'm not thinking. I misspoke when I said processed. I would not expect security on one of these ships to process a scene. But do they even understand basic scene security, how you lock down an area once you get there and you understand the value and how delicate this evidence is to get back to port in order to allow those that are professionals to work the scene, to interpret the scene. So now you've got a fantastical story about this fellow going over this rail that's chest high. These rails are designed this way for a reason. It would take him being propelled in order to get over the side. And so that's one of these things. It's a fantastic example of what a potential train wreck these deaths are at sea, Nancy.
- [29:51]
Nancy Grace
And of course, there had been arguments the night before. He had a huge argument with his fiance. Well, they had just gotten married. This was their honeymoon. She, recall her name was spotted on cam, like sitting in a hallway completely drunk, just, you know, had been totally overserved. Long story short, I don't think she had anything to do with his death, but I believe he was murdered potentially by people he was with at the bar that night. And when I say, by the way, Joe Scott, that the rail was chest high, that's chest high on me, not on you. Okay. I'm five one and a half. You're like, what, six two or six three? So it would be different, but still, it was to a height. He didn't just fall over. He had to be as you said, propelled and part of the problem. Dr. Angela Arnold with us, psychiatrist. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com Dr. Angie is the family never will know what happened. And here with this little cheerleader, we see the same thing all over again with Anna.
- [31:01]
Susan Hendricks (Investigative Journalist)
It's horrific, Nancy. It's a, it's a form of trauma that this family will never be able to get over. That's why we, you know, that's why we have funerals and things like this. It's for people to process the death of someone, but if you never, ever know what actually happened to that person, you can never fully process their death. And so they will all be traumatized by this in ways that we don't even realize for the rest of their lives. It's true. It's very sad.
- [31:30]
Narrator/Reporter
Anna is mourned by classmates and teachers at Temple Christian. Mr. Bruner writes a heartfelt note. Your curiosity, your gentle spirit and the way you cared for those around you made a lasting impression on me and on everyone who knew you. Anna's family parks her car in the parking spot for the last time, the white Kia stacked high with bouquets of Anna's favorite flowers.
- [31:51]
Nancy Grace
Susan Hendricks. Joining us, investigative journalist and author Susan there's something so poignant about that photo of her car in her little parking spot. Seniors get their own spot and she painted hers after her favorite movie, Clueless. Her car was still parked there, and then everyone began putting flowers on it. And it reminds me, Susan, you and I have both lived in the south, how it's very typical. You'll be driving along the interstate and you'll see, like a cross covered in flowers. It's all that's left. The family is so bereft, all they can do is go put flowers on her car. It's just heartbreaking to me.
- [32:36]
Susan Hendricks (Investigative Journalist)
Yeah. When I see that car, I think of a teenager with their whole lives ahead of them. And the school decided, hey, we're gonna keep that car there. It's staying put for now. And you see all the memorials. That young girl's best friends thinking she was just here. What happened? And as Dr. Arnold was talking and Joe Scott, I'm thinking, is that the place to commit the perfect crime? That floating vessel? I mean, it's blocked off. It's already back out at sea. Passengers are shuffled off and there's no answers.
- [33:07]
Nancy Grace
Okay. Robert Crispin is joining us at the Port of Miami, the departure spot for all of these cruises we're talking about. Okay, Robert Crispin, get ready. It's not just Anna that dies at sea. Now we've got Dulcey White, a loving wife and mom who apparently is overserved and falls over the edge and the boat doesn't even go back to look for her.
- [33:34]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
Dulce White, a loving wife to Terry, a mom of three nursing patients in Westmoreland, New York. When Dolce's daughter Megan suggests they take a girls trip, Dolce immediately suggests a cruise.
- [33:46]
Narrator/Reporter
Dulcie and Megan decide on a four day Taylor Swift themed cruise to Nassau and Royal Caribbean's Coco Key. The cruise promises themed events, friendship bracelet exchanges and a clever T shirt. In my Cruise era for 1500 per person.
- [34:01]
Nancy Grace
I mean to you, Robert Crispin, what could be more fun than that? A Taylor Swift theme cruise without all the girls, the young teen girls running around exchanging those friendship bracelets and some grown men I've seen wearing the Taylor Swift. Whatever. So much fun, so innocent. But the allegation tonight is she was horribly overserved and fell overboard and the ship didn't even turn around to go find her. Nothing. They just let her drown. What's the likelihood we're ever going to find her body?
- [34:37]
Unidentified Expert (Possibly Maritime or Law Enforcement)
That's never going to happen in an open sea in the middle of nowhere. You know, Nancy, everything starts out so exciting and everyone's happy when they get on this cruise ship. But the problem is when somebody falls off and the cruise ship pilot does not turn the vessel around or do a Williamson turn or an Anderson turn. That didn't happen. That allegation alone is sickening and it makes people not want to get on a cruise ship. God forbid something happens.
- [35:06]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
Dulce and Megan depart Miami onboard the Allure of the Seas. Dulce decides to splurge on a drink package as well, opting for Royal Caribbean's deluxe beverage package so she doesn't need to pay for individual drinks.
- [35:18]
Narrator/Reporter
Royal Caribbean's deluxe beverage package can cost more than $100 per day, not including an 18% gratuity charged at the end of the cruise. Dulce White eagerly boards the all in on Taylor Swift cruise with her family, expecting to have a wonderful weekend filled with all her favorite songs. Little does she know this trip will soon turn into a tragedy.
- [35:42]
Nancy Grace
That's right. It's not just that gorgeous teen girl cheerleader Anna Kepner that dies at sea. Now a mom of three dead, and the boat didn't even turn around to try and look for her body. Why? Joining us an all star panel. You know, I just want to be clear about something. To Robert Crispin, former dea, former vice. That's where this comes in. Former DOJ who's joining us there at the Port of Miami. In the States, it's against the law to over serve someone who is obviously inebriated. What? Those rules don't apply on a cruise ship.
- [36:20]
Unidentified Expert (Possibly Maritime or Law Enforcement)
You know, Nancy, you would think it does, but it doesn't. And sadly enough, even though they're inebriated, they're staggering, they're slurred speech, they're bloodshot watery eyes, they're still getting alcohol served.
- [36:31]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
Why?
- [36:31]
Unidentified Expert (Possibly Maritime or Law Enforcement)
Because they got the wristband on. It's the deluxe, all you can drink. What happens? They get them back to their room and they end up dying or something bad, really bad happens to these people and there's no accountability.
- [36:45]
Nancy Grace
You know, part of it though, Dr. Angie Arnold joining us, renowned psychiatrist, I think when you get on a cruise ship, I kind of did it with the twins. Of course we're all teetotalers. Sadly we're not in the party. But you think you're safe, you're surrounded by children. Adults don't get to come like just on their own, no pervs wandering around, I don't think anyway. And you just feel totally insulated, especially on a Disney cruise. And I'm wondering if that has anything to do with the attitude on cruise ships. You think, oh, I can drink as much as I want, all I have to do is walk to my room.
- [37:21]
Susan Hendricks (Investigative Journalist)
Well Nancy, what I was thinking about was this. Once a person has had a certain amount to drink, they're really not in control of their cognition at some point. So they're being overserved and they really don't realize that they're being overserved because the alcohol is affecting their brain. So they're no longer capable of making good choices. That's why in the United States it's illegal to overserve people. So it's, it's really quite a shame because they can ask and ask for more, but Nancy, they're not aware of what they're doing. And then something tragic like this happens.
- [38:01]
Narrator/Reporter
Tuesday night, Dulcie and Megan grabbing drinks along with pizza. Megan is socializing with other fans, doesn't notice her mother inebriated. After ordering drinks back to back by 7:30, another passenger has taken note of Dulce glassy eyed, slurring and struggling to maintain balance. The concerned passenger escorts Dulce back to the room.
- [38:21]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
Megan returns shortly after and is shocked by how intoxicated her mother is. She's never seen her mother in this kind of state. The mom and daughter start getting ready for bed to save space the pair leave their suitcases out on the balcony, so they have to venture out to grab fresh clothes.
- [38:37]
Narrator/Reporter
9:40 M3gan notices Dulce out on the balcony and assumes her mom is grabbing pajamas. When she next looks, she sees Dulce sitting on the railing of the balcony, her feet dangling over the edge. Before Megan can get to her, Dulce slips off the balcony and Megan can't catch her as she falls into the water below.
- [38:54]
Nancy Grace
Oh my stars. Straight out to the cruise ship lawyer, Spencer Ehrenfeld. You're the lawyer for Dulce White's family. I'm stunned. She was served so much, she could barely walk. Everybody let it happen. Then she falls overboard. Her daughter races to catch her and couldn't make it. Is it true the ship didn't even turn around after the daughter raised the alarm?
- [39:25]
Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
Well, the case has just been filed, Nancy. We don't have all of the ship position logs, we don't have the captain's log. So I have what the family has told me, which there was a delay in initiating the man overboard protocol. But once we start taking depositions and getting all of the data from the ship, I can answer that question specifically. But the allegation from the daughter who watched her mother fall to her death is that the ship did not stop, did not contact the U.S. coast Guard or Bahamian Coast Guard immediately, and did not initiate rescue efforts. Timely. But I also wanted to say this, Nancy, and I've investigated hundreds of man overboard cases. The common denominator is always alcohol and in most cases the overservice of alcohol. And cruise lines do have a legal responsibility under federal maritime law to not overserve visibly intoxicated passengers. The problem is this perfect storm of the all you can drink drink package encourages people to want to get their money's worth because they've already prepaid it. And the crew members are incentivized to serve and keep serving because that's how they get tips. So the cruise lines pay these folks below a minimum wage. They're not subject to federal minimal minimum wage laws. So they're paying these guys pennies on the pennies per hour. And if they can get a $2, $5 tips per passenger 15 times an hour, they're going to keep serving and serving and serving. And it's really a recipe for disaster.
- [41:20]
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- [42:51]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
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- [43:54]
Narrator/Reporter
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- [44:23]
Nancy Grace
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace to Sydney Summer joining us. Crime Stories investigative reporter. What about Williamson and Anderson? Those are two distinct maritime maneuvers that are to be employed when someone is a quote, man overboard. Right.
- [44:44]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
That obviously did not happen in this case. It feels like Royal Caribbean did nothing to try and save Dulce despite Megan's quick report of what happened to her mom. Megan says she felt helpless and that no one did anything in any timely manner after she reported her mom fell overboard. Megan immediately reports her mother's fall overboard to crew members, but the ship does not perform a Williamson or Anderson turn to return to the man overboard loc. And no rescue boats are launched. The crew doesn't even immediately report Dulce missing, though her fall was caught on the ship's cameras. Eventually, crews from the Royal Bahamas Defense Force and the US Coast Guard search for Dolce, employing helicopters. But Dolce's body is not recovered.
- [45:32]
Nancy Grace
She did overdo it just trying to.
- [45:35]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
Maybe get her money's worth.
- [45:37]
Nancy Grace
I don't know.
- [45:38]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
It saddens me that that that is.
- [45:40]
Nancy Grace
My last memory of her. From cbs.
- [45:44]
Narrator/Reporter
Dolce White falls from the balcony after allegedly being served one too many drinks. Her body is never recovered, leaving her family and friends in shock and mourning.
- [45:54]
Lindsay Allison (Passenger Witness)
Dulce White's family files a lawsuit claiming the cruise line overserved her alcohol and delayed an emergency response. The filing alleges Dulce was served seven drinks in six hours and eight minutes despite obvious signs of intoxication. The cruise line is accused of failing to comply with statutes enumerated in U.S. maritime law when they failed to launch an adequate search for Dulce. It will haunt us for the rest of our lives. I feel that the over consumption of alcohol and the over service of alcohol.
- [46:28]
Nancy Grace
Was the cause of best that for my friends at cbs. The daughter literally haunted the rest of her life because she didn't catch her mom before she fell overboard. Was it her fault? No, but I'm sure she has survivor guilt. And these two that we've highlighted tonight, Dulce and Anna, they aren't the only ones. Does the name Amy Bradley ring a bell? Because I will never forget it.
- [46:53]
Susan Hendricks (Investigative Journalist)
Amy Bradley was 23 and she was on her family vacation.
- [46:58]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
The water was crystal clear. Life is good, everything's great. Told her to see her tomorrow. I went to bed around 5:30 in the morning, I saw Amy on the balcony, 6 o', clock, woke up again, she wasn't there.
- [47:12]
Nancy Grace
He said, I've been looking for Amy and I can't find her. We check every inch of the ship.
- [47:19]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
The captain came in.
- [47:21]
Nancy Grace
He says, the FBI have searched your daughter's name on this.
- [47:26]
Susan Hendricks (Investigative Journalist)
Now years have passed and we've had so many sightings.
- [47:30]
Nancy Grace
I saw her. That from our friends at Netflix, Amy Bradley is missing. To be told by the captain, your daughter's not on this boat. How do you know that? How do you know she's not on the boat? I mean. Robert Crispin, you're joining us from Port of Miami. How big are these behemoths?
- [47:49]
Unidentified Expert (Possibly Maritime or Law Enforcement)
They're massive. They're massive. And Nancy, if they told him that, then they knew something. They looked at the cameras, they saw a fall, they knew something. But how can you tell someone that when you haven't even done an investigation if you don't see her falling off the boat?
- [48:06]
Nancy Grace
On a cruise ship, you know, the ship from which Anna Kepen went missing was monstrous huge. There were thousands and thousands of not only cruise ship passengers. I tried to add it up. Let's see. The 14 deck Carnival Horizon sails the Caribbean. 4000 passengers and 1500 person crew. That's at least 5500 people. And they come in and tell the dad, yeah, she's not on the ship. Okay. And there's more now. Years had passed and we've had so many sightings. I saw her.
- [48:53]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
That's where I was standing.
- [48:55]
Nancy Grace
Amy's life.
- [48:56]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
Taxi driver said, her daughter is on this island.
- [48:59]
Nancy Grace
She could have been lured on the ship. I saw her in the restroom. All Barbados.
- [49:03]
Commercial Announcer
I said, what's your name? Amy.
- [49:05]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
I was in the bar. Enter us out. One girl said, my name is Amy Bradley.
- [49:10]
Nancy Grace
I need help. I thought that could be Amy. From our friends at Netflix, Amy Bradley missing. And it's still unsolved, which goes back to Jo Scott Morgan's insistence that you have to solve the case before everyone departs from the ship. Jo Scott, I'm not sure you're familiar with Jackie Castronellis. Another similar cruise ship mishap.
- [49:35]
Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
Well, she was in New York City.
- [49:37]
Nancy Grace
Waitressing on her way to becoming a star. She went to some open call auditions and this was one of them for this high end cruise line. And lo and behold, they called her back. They liked what they saw on her and, and booked her onto the first.
- [49:52]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
Of what turned out to be three.
- [49:54]
Nancy Grace
Cruises over the course of the next year and a half. That was her, her really her first.
- [49:59]
Robert Crispin (Private Investigator, Former DEA)
Big break doing what she loved doing.
- [50:02]
Nancy Grace
Which was singing and performing. Robert Crispin joining us there at the port of Miami. Robert, if they can't keep up with the safekeeping of their own employees. She was a performer, right? She was there as part of the performances that the ship puts on to, you know, entertain the passengers. They can't keep up with a star performer. She ends up dead in her room and nobody knows what happened, much less the passengers.
- [50:32]
Unidentified Expert (Possibly Maritime or Law Enforcement)
Let me tell you something, if you've ever been on one of these, they're floating cities, they can't keep track of everybody, they just can't.
- [50:38]
Nancy Grace
It's impossible to you, Jo Scott Morgan, exactly why you were insisting that the case be investigated while everyone is still on the cruise ship before witnesses can leave like they did in the George Smith case and evidence lost. I mean, they're never going to find Dulce's body ever.
- [50:59]
Joseph Scott Morgan (Death Investigator, Forensics Professor)
No, no, they, they, they will not. Gone forever and ever. Amen. You know, we're covering a similar case as well. Not similar in that sense, in the sense of the cruise lines, but you know, we had the burning man homicide from a couple of months ago and Nancy, there were 70,000 people at that event that there's a high probability that that will never be solved. Do you know why? That was a non permanent location where people just went into the wind from all over the world. It's identical to the cruise lines as well. You have these people that go down there for fun, they relax, they should be. You've earned it, you pay for it. You go down there, you want a taste of the good life and then you begin to indulge in alcohol. You meet strangers, some of them, you don't know who they are, where they're from, you don't know what their intentions are relative to you. And so it's not like working in Atlanta or New Orleans or New York or wherever where you have a static location where you can go out and process a scene, you can go out and canvas and interview people and all these sorts of things. This is an absolute nightmare scenario for everyone involved.
- [52:05]
Nancy Grace
Spencer Ehrenfeld, cruise ship lawyer Dulce is your case. What are you going to do man?
- [52:14]
Spencer Ehrenfeld (Cruise Ship Lawyer)
So the first thing we're going to find is the surveillance video. We're going to interview the servers, we're going to find out what they saw, what they knew, what they observed. We're going to get the ship's position log and find out from the moment that the daughter called the bridge and informed them that her mom had gone off the side of the ship. How long did it take the ship to notify the Coast Guard, notify the Bahamian authorities, and to initiate any type of man overboard protocols? There's technology available right now that alerts the bridge without having to have a call. It's actually mandated by federal law. But most cruise lines are not following this and they do not have installed man overboard technology. To my knowledge, the only cruise line that is really fully compliant with that is Disney. But all these new mega cruise ships are coming out that are floating cities. They are doing it in contradiction to U.S. federal maritime law and they do not have man overboard technology. There are so many ways now that passengers who go overboard can be found. A simple airtag can be included on their lanyard so that when they go overboard they can find them with GPS within seconds. But the cruise lines choose to put their profits ahead of passenger safety and they don't invest in the technology that they're required to have. And they could easily have to rescue people that go off the side of ships.
- [53:54]
Nancy Grace
Two more unsolved Cruise ship fatalities if you know or think you know anything about these cases, Please contact Miami FBI 754-703-2000. Repeat 754-703-2000. Your tip may make the difference in solving these cases. We remember American Hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence CANFIELD, Sacramento County Sheriff's California killed in the line of duty after 13 years serving and protecting, leaving behind his grieving wife and two children without a dad. American Hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield, Nancy Grace signing off.
- [54:43]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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Narrator/Reporter
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Nancy Grace
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Nancy Grace
So Crunchy just sent me some products and I am losing my mind. I put some of their beautifully flawless foundation on one of my hands and so now one of my hands looks 10 years younger than my other hand.
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Nancy Grace
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