TRIAL DELAY IN THE MURDER OF NIKKI CHENG

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: Trial Delay in the Murder of Nikki Cheng

Date: December 27, 2025
Host: Nancy Grace (CrimeOnline/iHeartPodcasts)
Guests: Kay Ford, Chloe Saley (Nikki’s sisters), Philip Dubay (defense attorney), Dr. Bethany Marshall (psychoanalyst), Brian FitzGibbons (investigations/security), Dave Mack (Crime Stories reporter), Jeffrey Gentry (forensics), others

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the tragic and complex case of Nikki Chang (also reported as Nikki Saley McCain), a missing mother now presumed murdered. With her body still unrecovered, the legal process in Shasta County, California, has advanced to a rare "no body" murder prosecution against her husband, Tyler McCain. The court has postponed McCain’s trial from November 2025 to March 2026 due to new evidence and documentation. The episode dives into the physical evidence, family anguish, witness testimony, and the legal details, featuring raw input from Nikki’s sisters enduring the harrowing preliminaries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Case Background & Charge Details

• Trial Delay:
  The start date for Tyler McCain's jury trial is now March 17, 2026, with a trial readiness hearing set for March 11, 2026 (04:31).
• Tyler McCain's Charges:
  • 12 charges, including allegations that he murdered his wife to prevent her testimony in a domestic violence case.
  • Shasta County's first "no body" murder prosecution (13:29, 13:57).

2. Domestic Violence and Abuse History

• Nature of Abuse:

  • Multiple accounts of violent abuse by Tyler McCain both before and at the time of Nikki's disappearance.
  • Details include: waterboarding, beatings, tying wrists and ankles with tape, taping her mouth (08:46).
  • Nancy Grace: "He would sit on her back, he would beat her. He put a towel over her face, poured water on it to the point where she felt she was suffocating and couldn't breathe." (07:06)

• Victim’s State of Mind:

  • Nikki fled violence and sought help from her sister and the authorities. Photos of her injuries were taken as evidence (10:05–10:28).
  • Dr. Bethany Marshall calls the abuse "escalating and aggravated" (09:28).

3. Physical and Forensic Evidence

• Abandoned Chevy Avalanche:

  • Nikki’s vehicle was found on a remote road with evidence of decomposition and large quantities of blood in the bed (16:16, 15:07; 17:59).
  • Deputy describes "smell of death" and swarm of flies, plus blood and Nikki’s hair found in the truck’s bed (16:16, 15:07).

• Significant Blood Evidence:

  • Jeffrey Gentry (27:15): "You shouldn’t have blood in the back of the truck bed, and you should absolutely not have blood in sufficient quantities to pour out a truck."
  • Large pools of blood found even on the fuel tank; sheets with blood and hair used to possibly wrap and move a body (23:22).

• Additional Crime Scene Evidence:

  • Blood stains and cleaned areas found in the garage.
  • Blue Star tests indicated blood present; garage had been unusually cleaned (20:46).
  • Burned comforter and sweater found at Tyler’s mother’s home, possibly Nikki’s (40:38).

• Sheet as Key Evidence:

  • A white sheet with three knotted corners, each corner bearing DNA from different individuals, believed to be from carrying Nikki’s body (33:23, 51:09).
  • Kay Ford: “The DNA is in the corners of the sheet... clearly where the sheet had been knotted to help carry Nikki's body.” (32:34)

4. No-Body Case Legal Challenges

• Prosecution Difficulties:

  • “No body” trials are rare, often leveraged by defense to cast doubt about whether a murder even occurred (15:07).
  • Defense tried to suggest alternative explanations including drug use or third-party involvement (11:34, 44:21).

• Preliminary Hearing Purpose:

  • To determine if enough evidence exists for trial (12:01–13:29).
  • Defense gets to cross-examine witnesses vigorously.

5. Notable Witness Testimony and Evidence

• Sisters’ Experience:

  • Kay Ford and Chloe Saley describe the trauma:
    • Chloe: "There were actually two incidences. One was when they played a recording of Nikki's voice... The other was the evidence about how much blood was in the back of that truck bed." (18:50)
    • Kay: “Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell... just thinking of our sister in that state was difficult to hear...” (19:49)

• Other Witnesses:

  • Justin Karen:
    • Lived in a trailer on McCain’s property. Claimed McCain asked him to help make the truck and “whatever was inside” disappear. His testimony suggests he was dependent on McCain (36:30).
    • Found Nikki’s driver’s license and credit cards on porch, gave them to McCain. License later found burned in his wallet (39:59).
  • Felicia Nelson:
    • Girlfriend of Justin Karen, who heard a "thud" and activity near the truck the night Nikki disappeared (37:54).
  • Luis Baraja:
    • Testified about his friendship and possible relationship with Nikki. Defense tried to leverage his DNA on the sheet as alternative culpability (34:03, 44:21).

• Behavior in Court:

  • McCain largely kept his head down but erupted in a cursing outburst when crime scene photos were compared before/after disappearance, requiring a judge to call a recess (29:44–31:00).
  • Kay Ford: “If he would act like that in open court in front of a judge, what would he do when he is alone with Nikki?” (31:00)

6. Defense Strategy and Criticism

• Defense attorney Philip Dubay:

  • At various points he attempts to cast doubt on the husband’s guilt by focusing on possible alternative suspects, the presence of DNA, and McCain’s awkwardness in public.
  • “...if you have biological evidence at the scene... that is enough to get that third party culpability instruction.” (44:21)
  • Grace and other guests challenge his explanations, particularly his float of drug use or external culpability (12:01–12:58).

• Psychoanalyst Commentary:

  • Dr. Bethany Marshall rebukes claims about Nikki “having an affair” as inconsistent with the patterns of domestic abuse victims (45:28).

7. Family Trauma and Resilience

• The sisters describe relying on family and children’s activities for stability but confess sleep and daily “decompression” are impossible during the hearing (14:47).
• Chloe: “I have to be strong for Nikki’s kids because I want to know what happened and I want to know what they did to her.” (53:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On McCain’s demeanor:
  • “His wife is missing, possibly dead. His children don’t have a mother and he doesn’t know what to say.” – Nancy Grace (06:00)
• On the abuse:
  • “When he was alone with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. When they come face to face with consequences, they collapse.” – Nancy Grace (07:06-07:55)
• Forensic insight:
  • “You don’t expect large quantities of blood to be saturated into sheets, especially sheets that are tied up in knots.” – Jeffrey Gentry (27:15)
• Key evidence:
  • “The smell of decomposing flesh coming from inside the truck bed is coupled with a swarm of small flies and gnats.” – Deputy Alicia Brito (16:16)
• On trying to find hope:
  • “Isn’t it true, Brian, that family members want desperately to believe their loved one is out there...? How do you break that...?” – Kay Ford (52:28)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:30: Introduction of Nikki’s case as a homicide investigation.
• 04:31: Trial delay and judicial reasoning.
• 08:46: Detailed narrative of the abuse incident.
• 15:07: Shasta County’s first no-body murder trial; no body has ever been recovered.
• 16:16: Forensic evidence from the pickup—smell of death, flies, blood, and hair.
• 18:50: Sisters’ emotional testimony on most difficult parts of the hearing.
• 23:22: Blood evidence pooled under truck, indicating massive blood loss.
• 27:15: Jeffrey Gentry’s forensic breakdown of bloodstains and body transport.
• 29:44: Tyler McCain’s court outburst and the cleaned-up house.
• 32:34: Discussion of DNA evidence on the knotted sheet.
• 39:59: Details of Nikki’s ID and credit cards being handled, then burned.
• 44:21: Defense tries to push third-party culpability argument.
• 45:28: Dr. Bethany Marshall on abuse victims’ behaviors and “affair” claim.
• 51:09: Dave Mack describes DNA profile of three individuals in the sheet’s knots.
• 53:34: Chloe describes why she endures the ordeal for Nikki’s children.

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Conclusion/Tone

The episode exposes the devastating ripple effects of domestic violence, the pain of unresolved disappearance, and the particular frustrations of a “no body” homicide prosecution. Throughout, the tone is frank, at times emotionally raw, blending Grace’s prosecutorial edge with the sisters’ grief and resolve. The hosts and guests focus relentlessly on the forensic and testimonial evidence, consistently countering speculative defense arguments.

Final Note:
Kay and Chloe’s presence—and the focus on their lived experience—grounds the episode in harsh personal reality, underlining the stakes as the community and court await justice for Nikki.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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[Philip Dubay]

I O Did you know? Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11 PC Mag. Reader's Choice Used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Nancy Grace]

Season two of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT.

[Philip Dubay]

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[Kay Ford]

Stories with Nancy Grace Devastated Sisters Hear Grisly facts in the missing Nikki Chang case, now upgraded to murder. But where's the body? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Mom's Chevy is found abandoned on a remote country road. Nikki's case is a homicide investigation.

[Nancy Grace]

There were several assaults on Nikki.

[Kay Ford]

A brutal assault on Nikki prior to her disappearing, prior to her Chevy being found abandoned on a remote country road.

[Nancy Grace]

She thought she was going to die.

[Kay Ford]

Where is Nikki? A brutal assault at the hands of this guy.

[Philip Dubay]

I'm John McKenna. I'm the husband. Nikki, first of all, I would like to thank the sheriff's office, FBI, for getting involved, any efforts to get my help, my wife, home safely. We miss you.

[Kay Ford]

He's kind of fumbling around. Listen to more of that.

[Philip Dubay]

I don't really know what to. I haven't been in the public eyes, and I haven't done very well with it. I apologize to everyone, especially my children, my wife's family. Mine is as well. I'm just here in support. So anything that I can do, I.

[Nancy Grace]

Want to do that.

[Kay Ford]

I want you to hear this, Nancy.

[Nancy Grace]

A new trial date said for Tyler McCain, the man charged with killing his wife, Nikki Changley. McCain. McCain faces 12 charges and multiple special allegations, including one that he killed his wife to prevent her from testifying against him in court over domestic violence charges. The jury trial was supposed to start November 18, but McCain's lawyer, Michael Borges, asked for more time given the mounds of documentation provided by the prosecution. Shasta Superior Court Judge Adam B. Ryan set the trial date for March 17, 2026. A trial readiness hearing will be held on March 11 to ensure both parties are ready for the trial.

[Kay Ford]

How did we get here? With me, defense attorney Philip Dube. Here he is pleading for his wife's return. He's like, I'm sorry, I've got my thumb up my rear end. I mean, I don't know what to say.

[Philip Dubay]

Well, first of all, it's not as if he had an opportunity to rehearse it. You put the guy in front of a camera as if he's doing a screen test for an Academy Award film. It's ridiculous. The guy was caught off guard. He wasn't told what he was going to be asked. He didn't know what he was going to say. So people often stammer and stutter and have a little word salad. They don't know what, if anything, to say. So to say that that implies guilt. Here we go again. Here we. Yes, there she goes.

[Kay Ford]

The symphony the rhapsody and all of a splendor and glory of Philip Debay trying to explain away a defendant in this case, a murder suspect. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, try as he might, Philip Dubay cannot explain away why the husband of the missing mom, who she's had all these children by him, he beat her to a pulp before and was about to testify against him when she went missing. He stands up and goes, well, I don't know what to say. His wife is missing, possibly dead. His children don't have a mother, and he doesn't know what to say. You know what? When John David disappeared in the middle of a big, huge Baby's R Us warehouse, I knew what to say. I screamed, my baby's missing. Lock the doors. I screamed it over and over. It sounded like a siren in my throat. I knew what to say. Nancy, he's.

[Nancy Grace]

He's unable to say anything because he has the sheriff, the prosecutor, law enforcement standing next to him. And what I mean by this is when he was alone with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. He would sit on her back, he would beat her. He put a towel over her face, poured water on it to the point where she felt she was suffocating and couldn't breathe. She had bruises and lacerations on her face. She was afraid of dying. She allegedly had bruises and lacerations on her face.

[Kay Ford]

And yet when he's in front of.

[Nancy Grace]

Law enforcement, he's not the big bully that he is at home.

[Kay Ford]

So I see with these types of.

[Nancy Grace]

Men who are abusive that they are very powerful when they're alone with a small, fragile woman.

[Kay Ford]

But when they come face to face.

[Nancy Grace]

With consequences, they kind of collapse.

[Kay Ford]

Let's watch him implode again. I mean, I could just watch this all night.

[Nancy Grace]

Watch.

[Philip Dubay]

I don't really know what to say. I haven't been in the public eyes.

[Nancy Grace]

And I haven't done very well with it.

[Philip Dubay]

I apologize to everyone, especially my children, my wife's family. Mine is as well. I'm just here to support. So anything that I can do, I want to do that.

[Kay Ford]

Apologizing for what? That's certainly a Freudian slip. Apologizing for what? Did anybody think to ask him that? Now, you heard Dr. Bethany Marshall describing a horrible incident of abuse. This is how it started.

[Philip Dubay]

Wednesday night, around 8:30, Nikki Salem McCain is in her bedroom combing her hair. Her husband of 13 years, Tyler McCain, arrives home in a strange mood. For no apparent reason, Tyler McCain aggressively jumps on top of Nikki, holding her on the ground, then dragging her around, yelling what are you doing? Nikki says Tyler McCain's eyes are glazed over. Nikki tries calming her husband, but it doesn't work and he holds her down and begins hitting her in the face. The terror escalates over a three hour period with McCain binding Nikki's wrists and ankles together with tape, putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't speak properly, rolling his wife onto her stomach. Tyler McCain and sits on her back, pulling her hair back forcefully, pulling her head back and telling her he's going to kill her.

[Kay Ford]

This is the domestic incident. Why do they even call it domestic incident? It's an aggravated assault, but it doesn't end there.

[Philip Dubay]

After three hours of Tyler McCain allegedly beating his wife, the mother of his four children, hitting her about the face and head, blackening her eyes, pulling out her hair and taping her mouth shut, he leaves her alone and goes into the kitchen. Getting herself loose from the bindings. Nikki grabs a rope, runs outside and gets in her car. Tyler McCain chases Nikki out of the house and jumps onto the hood of the car, telling her to stop. Ignoring his demands. Nikki flees to the safety of her sister's home in Reading.

[Kay Ford]

What a psycho. He jumps on her car to stop her from leaving after he's been beating her and terrorizing her and waterboarding her for hours. But this time. Dave Mack joining us, crime stories, investigative reporter. This time it's different because she reports the violence, she reports the beatings and they get photos of the beatings.

[Philip Dubay]

Nancy, in this particular case, you know, we said she runs to her sister's house in Reading. It's her sister that lovingly says, we got to take you to the hospital. We've got to get this documented. You need help, you know, for these injuries. And so while she's at the hospital, she makes the call and a police officer arrives and the detective actually has the foresight and the wherewithal to, to actually record exactly word for word, Nikki Saly McCain describing this horrific attack, how long it took. It was a 20 minute long interview with her talking. And it's just, it's shocking, Nancy, how she described what she had just endured.

[Kay Ford]

Okay, now what were you saying, Philip Dubay, about how this is not a screen test in Hollywood. I think I know why he couldn't stop speak at that presser. All this was rushing through his mind. If he has any conscience at all, or maybe he's like a frog. Have you ever held a frog and looked at it in the face? It just, it just blinks. It's cold blooded creature, no emotions. Is that what's happening?

[Philip Dubay]

No, he does have an emotionally low iq, but I don't know why, and I have no actual evidence of this. But he reminds me of a classic meth addict, that somebody who flies off the handle after a lengthy fix. And when he's trying to chase the dragon and trying to get another fix, he can't get it, so he acts out in a fit of pique and rage. And I have a feeling that this incident, if it's in fact true, was drug fueled.

[Kay Ford]

Put him up. You know, Dube, it's amazing how you can do a hairpin turn from this is no Hollywood Screen Test 2. He's a meth head. Okay, there's no evidence at all that he's a meth head. But I guess you're digging really deep to explain his behavior at the presser. You know what technical legal term. Screw his behavior at the presser. Let's get to the preliminary hearing. First of all, why there's a preliminary hearing? I. It confounds me. It's the state's worst nightmare. Typically, in most jurisdictions, the state can do an information, just write up on a notepad what the charges are going to be. Or preferably a grand jury. That takes about five minutes. This preliminary hearing requires the state to put up witnesses to prove PC probable cause for the judge to bind the case over or send it to the correct court. For instance, you wouldn't send a murder case to traffic court. It would go to a felony superior court where only felonies are tried. That's what's happening here. So the defense is getting the first swing at the ball by cross examining the state's witnesses. That's what's happening now.

[Philip Dubay]

Listen, a preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nikki Chang Salee McCain and has brought many witnesses to the stand, from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts. Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of his wife. If the case against him moves forward, it will be the first no body murder trial in Shasta county history. As of today, Nikki is still missing and presumed dead.

[Kay Ford]

Well, brace yourselves. Shasta county, other jurisdictions have had plenty of no body murder cases. So you know what? Get with it or you won't be with it much longer. Elected district attorney. Joining us now, two very special guests who have been to hell and back seeking justice for their sister, Nikki. With us, Kay Ford and Chloe Seeley. They have been enduring excruciating testimony in this preliminary hearing. Sisters, thank you for being with us. I've just got to know off the top, how do you go home and actually fall asleep after hearing this evidence? KAY ford, how do you decompress after all of this each day?

[Nancy Grace]

We've, you know, our spouses have been very supportive and we're also busy with kids activities. So a lot of times that's been very helpful to refocus our our thoughts a little bit. But it is the once we're laying down, it's taking all the information in is a lot now.

[Kay Ford]

Joining us, Brian FitzGibbons, Director, Operations, USPA Nationwide Security. FitzGibbons leads a team of highly specialized investigators who focus and specialize in locating missing people all around the world. And you can find him at uspasecurity.com Former Marine and Iraqi war veteran. Translation, he's seen it all. Fitzgibbons, you know what, here's a problem. One of the problems with a no body case, as Dube has pointed out on many occasions, I've seen this trick done in court where in the closing argument, the defense attorney will say, hey, is that the victim coming in the door right now? And they wait to see if the jury turns to look. And if they do, the defense will argue, say, you're not even convinced she's dead, much less who did it. But don't you think by now, Fitzgibbons, she would have been found?

[Philip Dubay]

Absolutely, Nancy. And you know, this has been well over a year that we've been looking for Nikki. And what I'll tell you is in this preliminary hearing, the DA has brought forth nine investigators from law enforcement, from various disciplines that have methodically laid out the case against Tyler McCain and the case, forensic case, to prove that there was in fact a murder that took place. So these crucial things have happened. On top of that, you have five members of McCain's friends and family that have taken the witness stand and their stories have contradicted statements that they've made to the police. So I think things are going very well for the district attorney here to get that probable cause from the judge. Riding police detective Jeremiah Kessinger says Nikki's sister, Chloe Saley texted with Nikki regularly and there was always a response until May 19th. Family members talked with Nikki on May 18th, but on May 19th, she never answered a text from Chloe. Nikki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and McCain going so far as to point point a gun directly at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members. Deputy Alicia Brito says he found Nikki's pickup on Highway 36 the night of May 25. Shockingly, the Deputy says there was a strong odor. The smell of death coming from the covered truck bed. The smell of decomposing flesh coming from inside the truck bed is coupled with a swarm of small flies and gnats. Also in the truck bed, a white sheet with blood stains and dark colored hairs. There are also smears of dried blood in the trunk bed and strands of dark hair found underneath a piece of trim. The blood and hair belong to Nikki Salie McCain.

[Kay Ford]

Enduring this preliminary hearing, including grisly testimony, specifically blood testimony, has been excruciating for Nikki's sisters. Straight back out to Chloe and Kay. Chloe, what has been the most difficult moment in the preliminary hearing? I mean, I don't know if you are at all like me, but my first brush with the law, the first time I'd ever been in a courtroom was at my fiance's murder trial. A lot of it I still can't remember, but the parts I do remember, they changed my life forever. And there's no turning back after what happened in court. What has been the most vivid moment in your mind in the courtroom so far?

[Nancy Grace]

There were actually two incidences. One was when the sheriffs, they played a recording of Nikki's voice about what happened that night. That was really hard to hear because it was just hearing her voice because we weren't able to hear her voice for such a long time. And then also just the evidence about how much blood was in the back of that truck bed, that hit me really hard because I didn't realize how much blood and then was in the back of that truck. And just, you know, when you think of blood, you automatically think a murder and that they're never coming back again.

[Kay Ford]

The amount of blood in the truck, does that indicate to you, Chloe, that that is where she was killed?

[Nancy Grace]

I believe that shortly after whatever happened to her, whatever they did to her, I think that she was placed in.

[Kay Ford]

The back of that truck bed to die to k for Nikki's sister. Also, what has been the most disturbing moment during the preliminary, preliminary hearing for you?

[Nancy Grace]

Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell and kind of those details. She did such a good job with being so professional and just very scientific with it. But just thinking of our sister in that state was difficult to hear because at the end of the day, this, this hearing has been about decomposition of her body potentially. So those details were, you know, just kind of thinking that it's. We're describing our sister. That was pretty grisly for me.

[Kay Ford]

There was also evidence regarding the garage floor. What did you learn? Okay. About the garage floor, it sounded like.

[Nancy Grace]

A lot of activity happened. Witness testimony about looking like it had been cleaned. Also the blue star light being used by the evidence technician indicating that there was blood. They didn't. They didn't specify if it was animal or human, but as far as I knew, they weren't butchers and they weren't. You know, they weren't handling animals in the garage.

[Philip Dubay]

So that.

[Kay Ford]

That, to.

[Nancy Grace]

To me, definitely indicated that it could possibly be a crime scene. And it's not a. Not a place that I remember them cleaning a lot. So to have that the garage cleaned is pretty telling for me.

[Kay Ford]

When you refer to they k. Who are you talking about?

[Nancy Grace]

Well, the. The witness testimony so far have, you know, indicated, you know, the people living there, which would be Tyler and May. Maybe someone who helped him. But so far, the cleaning sounds like it had been done by Tyler.

[Kay Ford]

I've got a question to Chloe and Kay. First to you, Chloe. Does he even look at you in the courtroom, Chloe?

[Nancy Grace]

No, he doesn't look.

[Kay Ford]

Yeah. Yeah. What about it, Kay? Does he even meet your gaze?

[Nancy Grace]

No, he, for the most part, has his head down in his hands, and he. He hardly looks up, even at the witnesses. I did notice there was a witness last week that he. He had his head up more than he had with any other witnesses. And as well as when they were displaying some pictures of his home. He did look up at the projector screen during those pictures, but other than that, no. No eye contact with us whatsoever.

[Kay Ford]

Yeah, I'm not at all surprised. It's a whole nother thing. If you're not beating someone less powerful than you, much, much smaller, less cunning than you are when you're actually in court with equals, it's a lot more difficult to be a bully. Now joining a special guest, Jeffrey Gentry, forensic certified bloodstain pattern analyst, senior crime analyst and death investigator, former toxicology lab analyst and author of forensic science applications to death and crime scene investigations, and specifically author of bloodstain pattern analysis, Jeffrey Gentry. I just want you to hear one more fact about the blood pattern. Listen.

[Philip Dubay]

During a check of Nikki's avalanche, the vehicle is put up on a lift where investigators discover blood pooled on top of the fuel tank. Further inspection reveals there was so much blood, some of it dripped down from the fuel tank. On the passenger side of the truck, they found a plastic grocery bag containing a bottle of Southern comfort whiskey.

[Kay Ford]

Dear Lord in heaven.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Philip Dubay]

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[Nancy Grace]

Season 2 of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Becker, Snafeeza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more. Take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is Unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Philip Dubay]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure available at public.com Disclosures Crime.

[Kay Ford]

Stories with Nancy Grace. That mass quantity of blood Jeffrey Gentry can only mean one thing, but any guy on the street knows that. Give me your analysis about what was found in the truck bed and beyond.

[Philip Dubay]

These are all bad things, Nancy. So when you're working a nobody homicide case, you always have to consider where the blood is found and then also the quantity of blood that is found, because these are the things that you're going to want to use as evidence to convince the jury that the person is dead, even though there's no body. So blood on bed sheets, that's always a bad thing. You would expect blood to be in bathrooms, kitchens or bathroom sinks, things where blood might normally be found. But you don't expect large quantities of blood to be saturated into sheets, especially sheets that are tied up in knots. That's one of the ways that we actually transport bodies from crime scenes is you wrap them up in a sheet, you knot it up, then you put them inside of a body bag. It makes it easier to carry a body. So that is very bad when you're looking at a person being missing. And then you're finding blood in the bed sheets. And then also the quantity of blood that's being poured out of the truck bed. Again, you shouldn't have blood in the back of the truck bed, and you should absolutely not have blood in sufficient quantities to pour out a truck. And then they touched on also the smell of decomposition. That's the smell that I've of course smelled many times, thousands of death cases. And it's something that you don't forget are smelling decomposition again. That's another piece of evidence to suggest that this person is dead, even though you don't have a bottle.

[Kay Ford]

Straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. I want to go back to what's happening in the preliminary hearing. Tyler McCain, Nikki's abusive husband, had a major outburst where he stands up, starts screaming and cursing. What happened?

[Philip Dubay]

Well, in court, they Showed pictures from the first search of the house, of Nikki and Tyler's house. And in that first video shot, you could tell that the house was very messy. There weren't a lot of pictures hanging up. But what he lost it over was the pictures that were shown from the second visit after Nikki has been reported missing and the police go back in and are searching the home again. This time, they find that the home is no longer messy. It's been picked up and cleaned. It has been staged with family photos now hanging on the walls. That's where he lost it, Nancy. Because they were pointing out that, hey, man, when we came here the first time, right after she was reported missing, none of this was going on. This place was trash. But now look at it. After she's gone, there's pictures hanging on the walls. So that's why he lost it.

[Kay Ford]

You stated, Chloe, that for a large portion of the hearing, he would sit or he sits with his head down, looking down. But isn't it true he had a major outburst, yelling and cursing?

[Nancy Grace]

Yes, he did. It was when Kay mentioned it was when it was pictures of his house. And the evidence technician, she had mentioned that how the house had looked different from the first raid versus the second raid. And she just noticed that was unusual because when they went back the second time for the raid, they noticed that the living room was. It was all cleaned up. It was very nice and neat and put together, and there were family photos hung up. And she just said she found that kind of unusual. And Tyler, he said a cuss word, and he said that she doesn't understand why he's there.

[Kay Ford]

Okay. I believe his exact words are along the lines of, I don't even know why I'm even here. This is bull. This is bull. This is him standing up and yelling. And the judge had to call for a recess so his lawyer could calm him down. I mean, k. If he would act like that in open court in front of a judge, what would he do when he is alone with Nikki?

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, the outburst was pretty telling. And it wasn't. Maybe the family pictures were triggering, but it was pretty telling because he had been keeping his composure pretty well throughout the hearings. So that outburst was definitely a surprise. And it was like Chloe said, it was comparisons from the first search or raid compared to the one they went to about nine, 10 months later. And she commented, the evidence technician commented on what a difference it was. The home was in disarray previously. And then when she came back, it was like Chloe said, nice and tidy with family pictures. All over the walls. And yeah, he. His outburst was asking what was wrong with having pictures of his family on the wall. And then what you had said.

[Kay Ford]

You know, I'm very curious. Brian Fitzgibbons, I agree with you. I mean, you're the expert in missing people cases. But. But at this point, with so many people looking for Nikki, combined with all the blood found in that truck, she's dead.

[Philip Dubay]

Yeah. Connect the dots here.

[Nancy Grace]

Right.

[Philip Dubay]

We have a tremendous amount of forensic analysis that's been done on this vehicle as testified by, you know, various members of law enforcement. That's. That's undoubtedly what led Shasta county just about a couple months ago to make the pronouncement that they believe that this is now a murder case. So, you know, I think that there is sufficient evidence here to say that.

[Kay Ford]

I want to talk about the DNA evidence. It's my understanding that, and Dave Mack, correct me if I'm wrong, that the sheet found in the bed of the truck covered in blood, indicated by looking at the sheet that three of the four corners had been tied in a knot. I would argue, and Jeff Gentry, to you, that the hitch people McCain got to help him get rid of the evidence, each one took a corner of the sheet because DNA from three separate people are in each corner of the sheet where the knots have been tied. How does that work?

[Philip Dubay]

Jeffrey, that's exactly what you want to look at is where is the DNA on these sheets and who is involved. So if you have a knot on every single corner, that would absolutely suggest that there were multiple people involved, that there were multiple people carrying this body. As I mentioned before, when you are carrying bodies, it's not easy. I've carried a ton of bodies before, and you grab a corner of the sheet and you transport them to where they need to go. And at that time you're transferring DNA evidence to that sheet. Usually, of course, I'm wearing gloves at a scene, but these people most likely were not. And then if you're sweating and you're doing something active, there's more of a chance that you're going to transfer DNA.

[Kay Ford]

To whatever you're touching straight out to Chloe and Kay. Can either of you tell me about the testimony of Luis Baraja?

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah, Luis, he started his testimony. We only heard little bit of it, but he had been. He had an ongoing relationship with Nikki and it sounds like it went back as far as about a year or so before she went missing. And he very, very calm, very. Seems like a very nice gentleman. He said they had met at his place. Of work, which was at a cell phone store, and they become friends. He helped them with their. With their cell phone service. And I think he noticed. I think he kind of noticed Nikki needed help. And I think he. I think he felt bad for her. And I think in that, with. With how. How calm his demeanor was, with how comforting he seemed, I could see how Nikki felt like this was someone she could turn to when she needed it.

[Kay Ford]

There is also Justin Corin. What do we know about Justin's testimony?

[Nancy Grace]

I felt like he was very nervous. I feel like maybe he might have known more than he was letting on, But I definitely, I hope that he was being honest, But I feel like he wasn't being as honest as. Because I feel like he does know more.

[Kay Ford]

Justin Karen lived in a trailer on the property. That means he's got to have some connection with McCain. Also, they played a video of him talking to police. And in it, in this video that was played in court, Karen says that he was asked by McCain a few days after Nikki goes missing to help disappear the Chevy Avalanche and whatever was inside of it. And they pointed out that Tyler McCain is letting him live on the property for free. Then he starts crying in the video when cops press him for information, saying his mom lived with him, he didn't have anywhere to go if something happened to him. I mean, that's what it sounds like. I don't know if that's true, but I'd like you to describe that. What happened.

[Nancy Grace]

It sounded like Mr. Karen is kind of in a dependent situation with Tyler. He lives on the property, and it does sound like he's pretty much living rent free, you know, and he. He was kind of a right hand man for Tyler. He helped around the house, on the property, fix cars, whatever Tyler needed. And it does sound like without Tyler's, I guess, graciousness to let him live there, he would essentially be homeless and have nowhere to park his trailer. And he did mention his mom is not doing well, and his mom is pretty dependent on him to, you know, provide a place to live. And he does take care of him. So, you know, it sounds like Mr. Karen, unfortunately, was just pushed in a corner. I mean, he's. When you're dependent on someone, it's hard to say no when they. When they need your help.

[Kay Ford]

I understand that, but getting rid of a dead body is a whole nother can of worms. Okay? That's more than just helping a friend. That is obstruction of justice, tampering with the body, and could be a whole lot more. I'd Be crying, too. Let's go on to Felicia Nelson. That is the girlfriend, Right? Right.

[Nancy Grace]

They are no longer together, but he. They were dating at the time.

[Kay Ford]

What did she say? What was her testimony?

[Nancy Grace]

She did testify that on the night of Mar. Or May 17, into the early morning hours of the 18th, she did hear some movement in the back of the house and on the back porch, which is where the master bedroom exits. And that's also where Nikki had parked her car closer to the back, the back master bedroom door. She said during those hours, she did hear some movement and including a thud towards the back porch of the house in the rear of the truck in that, to me, sounded like the bed area of the truck.

[Kay Ford]

Now, I want to clarify. Felicia Nelson is Justin Karen's girlfriend, not Tyler McCain's girlfriend. And she also testified she was in the trailer and Justin Karen's trailer, and it was not parked very far from the McCain home at all. And she heard noises coming from where the avalanche was parked. She later described a thud heard in the early morning hours. May 18th. May 18th is the day Nikki goes missing. So that's very critical. Was Tyler McCain's defense attorney cross examining all the witnesses?

[Nancy Grace]

Yes, he was.

[Kay Ford]

And how did that pan out?

[Nancy Grace]

He was. I feel like he was strategic. He did try to poke holes in some of their testimony or, or, or. And I. I don't know the correct terminology, but almost sometimes, you know, someone said it was 10 minutes, he might say, could, you know, do you mean 15 minutes? Because you had said 15 minutes before, things like that, to kind of confuse the person and make them feel, you know, like maybe they didn't remember correctly. But, yeah, it's pretty crafty as far as, you know, the cross and clarifying specific things that they had testified to.

[Kay Ford]

Now, another point of Justin Karen's testimony that I found really interesting is that he stated he found Nikki's driver's license and credit cards on Tyler McCain's back porch and that he gave them to Tyler McCain. And at the time he gave them to Tyler McCain, they were not burned or destroyed in any way? They were then later, the driver's license was later found burned in Tyler McCain's wallet. Isn't that true? Yes. What can you tell me about items found in Tyler McCain's mother's home?

[Nancy Grace]

There was a white comforter in their detached garage that had a lot of burn marks on it. And then there was also a darker colored sweater that also appeared to be burned as well.

[Kay Ford]

Did either of you recognize the sweater? Did it belong. Belong to Nikki Was hard to tell.

[Nancy Grace]

Because it wasn't a pile. It looked denim like to me. But if it could have just been, you know, the, the, the thread material. But I, I did not specifically recognize the sweater. But Nikki had a lot of clothes so I wouldn't recognize every piece that she had anyway. And there was also a note that was found too.

[Kay Ford]

Tell me about the note. Okay.

[Nancy Grace]

Do, do you have it written down? It was in the bin. It was in a bin that was in Jeanette's garage. It was post it note. And the odd thing is, throughout the search they had found numerous just notes lying around Nikki and Tyler's home. And this note happened to be in Jeanette's garage. And it read, remember that feeling when you could be Jesus for a day on drugs?

[Kay Ford]

Who wrote that?

[Nancy Grace]

It looked like it could have been Tyler's handwriting. But they didn't, they didn't, they didn't say.

[Kay Ford]

How did you guys endure the testimony about the discovery of the truck and what was found in the truck bed?

[Nancy Grace]

That was probably. Yeah, one of the toughest things for me. I just remember I had my fiance sitting next to me. I just remember like clutching onto his hand because it was just, it was just a lot.

[Kay Ford]

The deputy stated under oath. There was a strong odor, the smell of decomposition, decomposing flesh coming from the truck bed. There was a swarm of flies and gnats. Also a white sheet with blood stains and dark colored hair. And Nikki had beautiful long dark hair. There are smears of dried blood in the truck bed and there is dark hair found under a piece of. On the trim on the outside of the truck. It is. It has been definitively proven that the blood and the hair belong to your sister Nikki. And my final question to you, Kay Ford. When you hear this technical evidence about blood and hair and a comparison lab comparison proving that it's Nikki's, do you let your mind go to how that blood got there and how her hair ended up in the trim of the foot of the truck?

[Nancy Grace]

So it's like I said, it's just grisly to think that that's what happened to her. You know, to even imagine. It's. Yeah, it's, it's difficult.

[Kay Ford]

Specifically about Louise. Philip Dube, the witness, now he's saying he had a romantic relationship with Nicky Chang. I guess he is saying that now that his DNA is on the sheet. Right? He's saying that is from an earlier romantic encounter. But does he not understand the crime lab can determine sweat versus touch, DNA versus sperm. Right. So if his DNA is over. In one of those knots tied, he's going to be proven to be a liar. Dube Exactly.

[Philip Dubay]

And that points immediately to third party culpability. And in California, in order to get that defense, you have to have more than just motive, means and opportunity for someone else to have committed the crime. There has to be some other independent evidence linking that third party to the crime. And here, if you have biological evidence at the scene where the death reportedly occurred, that is enough to get that third party culpability instruction. And particularly at a preliminary hearing, that is enough to show the court that the death was at the hands of somebody other than the defendant. The other problem I think the case has is so far we're not hearing that there was an unsurvivable loss of blood.

[Kay Ford]

I find this really hard to believe. Dr. Bethany Marshall, now that Nikki Chang is gone, now suddenly we're hearing about a sex affair. Is that just to conveniently explain away why his DNA is on the sheet used to transport her dead body? NANCY Abuse victims do not have affairs.

[Nancy Grace]

They are terrified to even smile at somebody in public if the abuser is looking at them. The abuser questions where did you have lunch? Did you talk to somebody? What did you say about them? Abusers are pathologically jealous. So, no, I have a hard time believing that she would have risked her life by having an affair.

[Philip Dubay]

Nikki first of all, I would like to thank the sheriff's office, FBI for getting involved, any efforts that might help bring my wife home safely. We miss you.

[Nancy Grace]

Decluttering is everything. It clears your space, your mind, and now it can give you shopping power with trashy. Trashy is the easiest way to clean, clean out and donate all that clutter you've been meaning to deal with eventually. Just buy a trashy bag, fill it with anything you no longer need, any brand, any condition. We take everything, then ship it free and earn trashy cash points instantly guaranteed. Keep earning points when you shop exclusive trashy deals and redeem them for gift cards to brands you love or even donate them to charity. It's simple, it's satisfying, and it's sustainable since 95% of what you send is gets reused or recycled. So you know those excuses that keep you from decluttering? You don't have time. You don't know what they'll take. Trashee solves all that. Just get a bag, fill it, send it. It's never been easier to turn clutter into shopping power. Buy your bag and start decluttering Today at Trashee IO, that's T R A S H I E I O Did you know?

[Philip Dubay]

Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice Used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Nancy Grace]

Season two of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Philip Dubay]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra, SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com Disclosures Crime.

[Kay Ford]

Stories with Nancy Grace.

[Philip Dubay]

Ripley says it wouldn't start McCain put diesel in the gas powered truck and it had rolled down a gradual slope, Ripley says. Justin Karen asked McCain if there was anything in the truck that needed to disappear and did the truck need to disappear? Both times McCain answered yes. The defense asked Ripley if he was offered amnesty for his testimony. Ripley said he didn't need it because he hadn't done anything wrong. Ripley says he met with his nephew later that evening at his trailer on McCain's property and told him he wanted nothing to do with whatever was going on. He didn't know until the next day the Avalanche was reported missing until he saw it on the news the next day.

[Kay Ford]

Philip Dubay, Defense attorney How can the defense possibly fight back against Ripley's testimony? Ripley says he asked the husband, McCain, is there anything in the truck we need to get rid of? And McCain says yes. And he says, do we need to get rid of the truck? And McCain says yes. What do you do with that? That's just like somebody dropped a bomb in your lap.

[Philip Dubay]

Well, that presupposes that you believe the witness. In order for that to have any merit or any weight, you have to find that the testimony is credible. And what do we know? That you had other people who were intimate with her. And I find it astonishing to suggest that it could have only been Mr. McCain. Normally, if there were past relations, you launder the linens. But the fact that there is fresh DNA from other people on that sheet. I don't care what anybody says when they're on the stand, forensics are the best eyewitness Debay.

[Kay Ford]

The DNA is in the corners of the the edges of the sheet there clearly days Mac where the sheet has been knotted to help carry Nikki's body. Explain the DNA found on the sheets.

[Philip Dubay]

Dave Mack, Nancy, when they got that sheet out and they were examining each of those corners, as you mentioned, there are 3 knots in this sheet. In the corners, they've got separate DNA profiles from different individuals in those knots. They're not all the same. So you've got three different people leaving their DNA on the knots that are tied in this sheath that also has Nikki Saly McCain's blood and hair. So. And of course, we've got her husband. His is all over it. And then we've got the other gentleman mentioned. So it's the knots that were tied by these individuals in the sheet. By the way, it was found in the back of her truck that was sitting on the side of the road with a cover over the truck bed.

[Kay Ford]

Okay. Jeffrey Gentry Blood spatter analyst you would have a field day with that. And did you hear Dubay trying to tune up and state that there wasn't enough blood to prove she's dead?

[Philip Dubay]

One, there shouldn't be blood in the back of a truck bed. There shouldn't be blood all over his sheet. And then there definitely should not be enough blood in body fluids that leak out of a truck. That is very concerning. And if you're going to suggest that a person is not dead after finding all of that, you're absolutely wrong.

[Kay Ford]

Question to you, Brian Fitzgibbons. The sisters have been through hell sitting through this preliminary hearing. It's. Isn't it true, Brian, that family members want desperately to believe their loved one is out there and they can and will be be found? How do you break that to someone that they're never going to be found?

[Philip Dubay]

Yeah, there's no easy way to begin that conversation when this forensic evidence and the witness statements, by the way, lead us to believe that their loved one is indeed deceased. And you know, this has got to be just a horrific experience through this preliminary hearing for Nikki's family to sit through listening to all this evidence brought before them.

[Kay Ford]

Chloe, I mean, I don't know how you guys are enduring it. I mean, I only sat through a very short portion when I testified at my fiance's murder trial. I didn't hear the rest. I don't know how you're doing it. How are you sitting there listening to testimony about Nikki's hair and blood?

[Nancy Grace]

It's definitely difficult. I just remember I have to do this. I have to say this because I have to be strong for Nikki's kids because I want to know what happened and I want to know what they did to her.

[Kay Ford]

Joining me, Kay Ford and Chloe Sally. As difficult, as horrible as it is for them, they are enduring gut wrenching and graphic testimony in court. And they are representing their sister Nikki. And it ain't over yet. Nikki. Sisters, thank you for being with us. We wait as justice unfolds. And now we remember an American hero. Officer Hunter Simonsik, Kansas City PD killed in the line of duty at age 26. Leaving behind heartbroken parents Ron and Christine. American hero. We honor Officer Hunter Samantha. Thank you to our guests, especially sisters Kay and Chloe. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend.

[Nancy Grace]

Cleaning out your home is everything. It clears your space, your mind and it can give you holiday shopping power with trashy. Just buy a trashy bag, fill it with anything you no longer need, then ship it free and earn trashy cash points instantly. Keep earning points when you shop exclusive trashy deals and redeem for shopping wherever you want or even donate them to charity. Turn a home clean out into shopping power that also does good@trashyio that's T R A S H I E I.

[Philip Dubay]

O Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop? Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you production productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades, visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Nancy Grace]

Season 2 of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Philip Dubay]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com, and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosure is available at public.com disclosures.

[Nancy Grace]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.