US MARSHALS MANHUNT: COACH TRAVIS TURNER VANISHES IN MOUNTAINS W/GUN

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: US MARSHALS MANHUNT: COACH TRAVIS TURNER VANISHES IN MOUNTAINS W/GUN

Air Date: December 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

Nancy Grace leads a panel of crime and law enforcement experts in a detailed discussion on the disappearance of Travis Turner, a celebrated high school football coach from Big Stone Gap, Virginia. Turner vanished into the local mountains, reportedly with a gun, just as he faced child pornography and child solicitation charges. The episode explores the complexities of the ongoing manhunt, the shockwaves through the close-knit community, challenges for law enforcement, and the dynamics of trust, denial, and institutional protection when respected community members are implicated in heinous crimes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Disappearance of Coach Travis Turner

• Summary: Turner, longtime head coach at Union High, disappeared days before his undefeated team’s playoff game.
• Timeline:
  • Virginia State Police were en route to question Turner about serious child sex crimes when he was reported missing.
  • Allegedly last seen entering nearby woods, carrying a gun and dressed in a gray sweatshirt and sweatpants.
  • Law enforcement and US Marshals launched an extensive search involving scent dogs, helicopters, drones, and on-foot teams.

Notable Quote:

“Why did he vanish into the woods with a gun...because of the upcoming football game? I don’t think so.”
— Nancy Grace [03:00]

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2. Community Denial and Child Protection

• Community Reaction: The region’s focus has been on Turner’s sports legacy rather than the severity of the accusations.
• Media & Interview Challenges: Local reporters indicate the community resists discussing allegations, preferring to defend Turner.

Panel Reflection:

• Dr. Bethany Marshall:

  “Children are always underrepresented in our judicial system…victims could be right in that community.”
  [06:00]

• Nancy Grace:

  “As much as people love football, I hate child molesters even more.”
  [04:30]

• Discussion on how institutions (like football, church, or the Boy Scouts) often protect powerful men from allegations, mirroring cases like Sandusky and Nassar.

• Defense lawyer Mark Tate outlines the difficulty of breaking through the “halo” that communal respect confers upon defendants (especially white, older men).

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3. The Investigation: Facts, Uncertainties, and Legal Nuances

• Charges:

  • Five counts of child pornography
  • Five counts of using a computer to solicit a minor
  • Officially, no information yet on the victims’ ages or evidence specifics.

• Discrepancies & Source Credibility:

  • The only confirmation that Turner entered the woods with a gun comes from the family’s lawyer, not law enforcement, raising concerns over witness reliability and possible misinformation.

• Search Details:

  • Unsuccessful intensive search efforts question whether Turner ever entered the woods.
  • Consideration of alternative getaways (car, possible local assistance, ATM or credit card activity, etc.)

Notable Quote:

“When the source is coming from the family attorney and not law enforcement, it’s difficult to confirm that he did that [went into the woods].”
— Brian Fitzgibbons [13:28]

• Discussion:
  • The stages of police versus grand jury (formal) charges explained.
  • Speculation about a tip-off leading to Turner’s disappearance.
  • Emphasis on the importance of digital and financial traces in fugitive cases (ATMs, cars, Amtrak, etc.).

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4. Rewards, Law Enforcement Tactics, and Fugitive Psychology

• US Marshals Offer $5,000 Reward: Belief that financial incentives can encourage tips (Irv Brandt).
• Fugitive Search Best Practices:
  • Fugitive investigations begin without assumptions—widened search to national and even international corridors (airports, train stations, vehicle records).
  • Importance of not relying solely on possibly unreliable direct witnesses.

Notable Quote:

“The marshal service gets involved in a case like this...when the warrants have been issued. They don’t help look for a suspect—they look for fugitives.”
— Irv Brandt [16:20]

• Speculation: Given the environmental conditions (freezing, rugged terrain), it is unlikely Turner is surviving in the woods without supplies, implying help from others or an alternative escape.

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5. The Difficulties of Prosecuting the 'Beloved Coach'

• Community Bias:
  • Panel highlights how difficult it is to prosecute well-respected local figures with deep familial, professional, and social ties.
• Defense Strategies:
  • Possible claims that incriminating material was planted.
  • Difficulty in convincing jurors against their personal biases or community loyalty.

Notable Quote:

“It’s going to be very difficult for them to believe this guy did anything of the sort. They would probably fall for some zany conspiracy theory like the child porn was planted on his computer.”
— Nancy Grace [24:11]

• Comparison to Past Cases:
  • Reference to union high’s prior incidents with teachers/staff accused or convicted of similar crimes, emphasizing a potential institutional pattern (Metter, Tibbs cases).
  • Discussion of societal protection for perpetrators in positions of authority: “There’s two kinds of cultures...a culture who supports the children and a culture...who supports the adults...”
    — Dr. Bethany Marshall [59:10]

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6. Understanding Child Exploitation Offenders

• Psychological Profile:
  • Discussion on the origins and patterns of child sexual offenders, with analogies to high-profile cases (e.g., Josh Duggar, Jared Fogle).
  • Offenders often have longstanding, fixed sexual interests, escalating behaviors, and are frequently protected or overlooked by their communities until undeniable evidence emerges.

Notable Quote:

“Pedophilia is considered a fixed arousal pattern that is there from birth… The most common age of a child molester is age thirteen.”
— Dr. Bethany Marshall [42:00]

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7. Unanswered Questions & Ongoing Investigation

• Nature and Origin of Evidence:

  • Ongoing uncertainty about whether the alleged abuse involved students from Union High.
  • Police and reporters have not obtained information on victim identities or the depths of Turner’s potential network.

• Final Appeals:

  • Nancy Grace and guests urge anyone with knowledge on Turner’s whereabouts or on child victims to contact law enforcement or the US Marshals.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• "Why did he vanish into the woods with a gun...because of the upcoming football game? I don’t think so."
  — Nancy Grace [03:00]

• “Children are always underrepresented in our judicial system… victims could be right in that community.”
  — Dr. Bethany Marshall [06:00]

• "When the source is coming from the family attorney and not law enforcement, it’s difficult to confirm that he did that [went into the woods].”
  — Brian Fitzgibbons [13:28]

• “The marshal service gets involved in a case like this when the warrants have been issued. They don’t help look for a suspect—they look for fugitives.”
  — Irv Brandt [16:20]

• “It’s going to be very difficult for them to believe this guy did anything of the sort. They would probably fall for some zany conspiracy theory like the child porn was planted on his computer.”
  — Nancy Grace [24:11]

• “Pedophilia is considered a fixed arousal pattern that is there from birth…”
  — Dr. Bethany Marshall [42:00]

• “There’s two kinds of cultures when it comes to these kinds of crimes: a culture who supports the children, and a culture...who supports the adults and cannot believe that a child molester is a child molester.”
  — Dr. Bethany Marshall [59:10]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:25] — Introduction to Travis Turner’s disappearance and background on allegations
• [04:01] — Panel assembled, initial reactions and discussion of football-centric community response
• [06:00] — Dr. Bethany Marshall and Nancy Grace dissect media and community focus
• [09:29] — Mark Tate on legal and psychological challenges for the community and case
• [13:28] — Doubts about witness accounts; family attorney’s role clarified
• [16:20] — Irv Brandt on law enforcement tools, US Marshals' involvement, and the reward’s impact
• [24:11] — Bias, jury challenges, and defense strategies in high-profile sex crime cases
• [42:00] — Deep dive into the psychology and escalation of child exploitation offenders
• [59:10] — Closing insights into community culture, institutional patterns, and the need for vigilance

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Conclusion

This episode of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace goes beyond the headlines, exploring how a respected community figure’s fall from grace exposes cultural, legal, and psychological challenges in protecting children and prosecuting offenders. It underscores the importance of scrutinizing community bias, institutional failings, and the relentless pursuit of justice even when it turns against beloved “heroes.” As the manhunt for Travis Turner continues, Nancy Grace and her panel remind listeners that public vigilance and open discussion are critical—especially when those accused hide behind the shield of their reputations.

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Contact Info for Tips:

• Virginia State Police: [phone]
• US Marshals Service: 1-877-WANTED-2 (1-877-926-8332)

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(This summary excludes advertisements and non-content segments, and maintains the direct, urgent tone of the podcast.)

Transcript

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[Samantha Allen]

Grace.

[Nancy Grace]

The us marshals manhunt an urgent update from the marshals coach travis turner the famed high school football coach vanishes into rugged terrains the mountains with a gun i'm nancy grace this is crime stories i want to thank you for being with us union high school in.

[Mark Tate]

Big stone gap virginia faces turmoil as.

[Dave Mack]

Head coach travis turner mysteriously vanishes days before their undefeated form football team heads to the playoffs.

[Nancy Grace]

Why did he say that that the coach vanishes just before the big football playoff correction the coach vanished into the woods we believe carrying a gun according to a witness as la law enforcement was on their way to his house to talk to him about child porn and about claims he solicited a child for sex over his computer you think he vanished into the woods with a gun and a sweatsuit because of the upcoming football game i.

[Dave Mack]

Don'T think so listen law enforcement headed to the family home to interview turner on the way investigators are informed turner is no longer home when officers arrived they're told turner was last seen going into a wooded area near his home wearing a gray sweatshirt and gray sweatpants.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me an all star panel including a rep from the us marshal's office who traveled the world looking for fugitives as well as an expert in nationwide manhunts but first to samantha allen joining us multimedia journalist from wcyb on insta you can find her at sam allen sports samantha what the hey why is every banner that i read and you can go ahead and plead guilty right now girl about the football the football game the undefeated season oh he's such a great football coach oh he's such a great quarterback when he played football football football hey i like football just like everybody else but you know what i hate more than i like football i hate child molesters and i hate people that download child porn on their computer alright i tried to look this guy up last night and i put in football coach child porn and i got all kinds of warnings like i was trying to download child porn i immediately just turned off the computer so what happened samantha all right well you.

[Samantha Allen]

Know virginia is a very tight knit community already so football is already on top of everyone's mind this team has gone undefeated he already is a all.

[Nancy Grace]

Star player put her up samantha what did i just say i said why is everybody talking about football when this guy this trusted football coach is allegedly downloading child porn on his computer probably at school and what did you do you know what i don't trust you anymore doctor bethany what does she just do after i said why are we talking about football the football record the football undefeated the football the football bleh and what did she just do she.

[Doctor Bethany Marshall (Alternate or same as B)]

Talked about football and what she didn't talk about was the victims and that is what should be front and center i looked it up too last night nancy it's all about football the community children are always underrepresented in our judicial system and in terms of protection and i keep thinking about who was he soliciting was it somebody in the school what about the child porn on his computer was he sharing photos with other child molesters is he a part of a child molesting ring where all these images are shared back and forth and because of that that is really the part of the story that should be front and center because victims could be right in that community if that community is so tight knit they're going to be concerned hopefully about the children more.

[Nancy Grace]

Than about football well you know doctor bethany marshall now i'm going to make a very brief cameo appearance as a defense attorney and i'm going to defend samantha allen after i just accused her samantha i think part of the shock of this of these charges child porn and soliciting a child a minor for sexual over the computer i think part of the reason everybody is so shocked is because what you just said because right if it's true if the allegations are true this guy has been right under our noses with who else thousands and thousands of children and he has been famous he is famous he has been lauded he's a hero in the school and the community his son played football under him and is now on the coaching staff with him and i think part of this is the fact that all this time when people have been sending their children to coach you know to learn football sports with him he's been downloading child porn so i'm going to defend you just for a minute there and i'm going to rewind samantha allen joining us multimedia journalist wcyb what's happening.

[Samantha Allen]

The community is very tight knit so they're not wanting to kind of put someone that's so familiar with them on blast until they have all the facts and that's kind of the same thing that we're dealing with as reporters in this region is trying to get people to talk no one wants to talk to us they want to defend him and that's being a big issue a lot of us are questioning why are you trying to defend him and why is it being kept so hush and a lot of the like.

[Nancy Grace]

I went to the you're right samantha i mean it's bedrock in our justice system that this coach travis turner is innocent as we're talking tonight he's innocent he is presumed innocent under the law but that's not the end of that sentence is it mark tate high profile trial lawyer with the tate group out of savannah who shot to fame across the nation during the alex murdaugh double murder trial he defended him to the very end on every news outlet there was mark tate that's not the end of the presumption of innocence jury charge is it that charge says the defendant is presumed innocent unless and until the state pierces that presumption of innocence with evidence to prove guilt that's the rest of that sentence that defense attorneys like to conveniently forget.

[Mark Tate]

Well i mean you're right the state has the burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt you know i think the issue here when we talk about that community and i do have some familiarity with that area is that no community that i've ever experienced wants to really understand that there is this kind of a shocking thing going on right there i've seen it in the catholic sects abuse cases boy scouts loved pediatricians rabbis organizations where you would never expect there to be something like this because you trust the person so much and so it shocks the community and i believe that when they have that type of shock there is a great burden to overcome to convince them that yeah this person that you trusted was not worthy of your trust and so i hope they're able to find him i think wandering off into the woods with the firear sort of bodes poorly for him obviously because he's wandering around the appalachian mountains and it gets to be about twenty nine degrees at night and he's probably got some survival skills who knows but i think it's going to be hard to find him and i think that once they get him that community is going to have to be convinced that he did the things for which he was sought when that when they first went to pick him up on november twenty fourth or announced that's why they were looking for him on november twenty fourth hold.

[Nancy Grace]

On just a moment mark tate the.

[Mark Tate]

Presumption of the that a search is.

[Nancy Grace]

Happening right now for this guy you don't think they brought out trapper dogs scent dogs massive search for him there's an incredible search going on i wonder did he even go into that rugged terrain i know he goes it matters.

[Mark Tate]

Who the witnesses are for that without.

[Nancy Grace]

Coats because i got video of him wearing shorts in the snow and that is a very important question to samantha allen joining us wcyb on the case from the very beginning you know you got to take all your witnesses with a box of salt not a pinch a box who said they saw this coach travis turner going into a heavily wooded area and sweatshirt sweatshirt sweatpants and a gun who said that to start with how do i know that's where.

[Samantha Allen]

He really went we actually really don't even know if that is one hundred percent true it was only released to us from the virginia state police the firearm is that was only told to us from the attorney the family's attorney adrian collins so we okay wait wait.

[Nancy Grace]

Wait samantha sam sam what did you say about the family lawyer it came from the family lawyer the family lawyer.

[Samantha Allen]

Is the only person that has officially announced that he walked into the woods with a firearm the virginia state police.

[Nancy Grace]

Did not wait wait whoa samantha you just gave me some very vital information brian fitzgibbons did you hear that so the only witness that sees him going into the woods with a sweatpantsweatshirt sweatpants gun is somebody from within the family because that's a family lawyer i'm extrapolating here brian fitzgibbons director operations uspa nationwide security leading teams of investigators across the world trying to find missing people brian consider the source so the police are on the way they've already one person has been either laid off or fired at the school in connection with this and i'm dying to find out who that is and what their connection is and now they're on the way to talk to him about it obviously about the child porn and he walks into the woods yet a an incredible an intense search goes on and nobody can find him in the woods did he really even go into the woods that's.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Certainly a big question right because when when the source is coming from the family attorney and this has not been confirmed by law enforcement it's difficult to confirm that he did do that and you're going to see the resources tied up to search this dense terrain with steep ravines tons of trees caves rivers you name it this is very difficult a difficult search to conduct you know.

[Nancy Grace]

Brian fitzgibbons i'm very curious about the efforts being made to find him i don't doubt that they are being made but when you bring out canines scent dogs cadaver dogs drones helicopters shoulder to shoulder and you can't find him that's concerning it suggests he didn't go that way but back to what happened listen.

[Dave Mack]

Turner'S disappearance days before his team's playoff game is now even more shocking the coach is wanted on five counts of possessing child pornography five counts of using a computer to solicit a minor additional.

[Nancy Grace]

Charges pending back to samantha allen joining us wcyb explain to me what the charges are exactly.

[Samantha Allen]

So the charges are the five counts of child pornography and five counts of soliciting a minor using a computer those are the only charges that have been announced to us they say pending there's charges pending according to the virginia state police but we do not know what that entails and last we heard is that they're having that five thousand dollars award from the us marshal if someone finds him irv brandt.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining us now former senior inspector with the us marshal service investigations branch he has traveled all around the world looking for fugitives and he is now the author of a hit series on amazon jack solo mysteries the last one going the gospel of luke oh i can't wait to read that one irv brandt i'm very curious about the search for him and the likelihood that he has stayed within the area also let me just kick it off with you about this reward there is an urgent update from the us marshals service they are now offering a five thousand dollars reward for information leading to the arrest of the former undefeated football high school coach travis turner now they've piled on they're offering a five thousand dollars reward do you believe rewards work irv brandt nancy.

[Irv Brandt]

Yes rewards do work that's why that's why the united states marshals service does it people are more apt to give information if they think they're going to be rewarded for the information i've worked cases for decades and rewards were an integral part of those cases and when the marshal service gets involved in a case like this they don't get involved until the criminal charges are announced that warrants are have been issued they they don't help look for for a suspect they look for fugitives and this man's a fugitive now and that's why the marshal involved in offering a reward guys.

[Nancy Grace]

You are looking at coach travis turner undefeated okay i will give in samantha allen tell me about his football record and why he is so notorious and famed in the area for all of those wins and go ahead and tell me about his own football career i.

[Samantha Allen]

Mean his father was a football star there at appalachia high school then we have him who's also a football star at appalachia high school and then he starts coaching union his son's a football star at union high school and now he's coaching an undefeated team and they're making it out to region championships and they have gone with no losses so now it's a big deal within the community of this guy that's so well known with a football career with his dad being a football star and his son and now he's leading this team into a championship but then he just runs away that's what makes this such a big deal within the community is that someone that's so well known and so like familiar with everyone and everyone growed up everyone i've talked to ever when i go out there and i do my interviews they know him they know his father they went to school with him they went to school with his dad everyone knows everyone there and no one knew that this was happening so like you said this was crazy that this was just right underneath everyone's noses and no one wants to believe.

[Dave Mack]

It travis turner is a former high school football star quarterback capturing three state titles as a player in the mid nineties now the head football coach at union high wise county virginia since twenty eleven and this year the team is undefeated heading into state playoffs travis and leslie turner married two thousand one and have three children sons bailey twenty three and graydon twenty and daughter brinley eleven bailey played quarterback and is currently a physical education teacher at the school and serves on the football coaching staff graydon is in the army and brinley is in the sixth grade take a listen.

[Nancy Grace]

To robin lawson from vsp virginia state.

[Samantha Allen]

Police the virginia state police has obtained ten warrants for missing high school football coach travis l turner forty six of appalachia turner is wanted on five counts of child pornography and five counts of using a computer to solicit a minor the investigation is ongoing and additional charges.

[Nancy Grace]

Are pending let me drink this in joining me crime stories investigative reporter dave mack dave okay hold on coach turner travis turner former high school football star quarterback capturing three state titles now the head football coach union high that's wise county virginia he's been there since twenty eleven right now his team is undefeated and heading to state playoffs his son is a football star his father is a football star and now his son is a pe teacher and is a football coach with him do i have that all right dave mac what more.

[Dave Mack]

Can you tell me well nancy you have everything exactly right the frustrating part of all of this nancy is what you started with at the beginning of the show talking about football because you know in reality this is another teacher that is sexually abusing or attempting to sexually abuse children that are in their charge we don't know the ages of the children he's accused of possessing pictures of or attempting to contact other than knowing they're minors but nancy we do shows all the time about teachers involved with students do we not have a class at the beginning of a year telling all the teachers and coaches don't touch the kids.

[Nancy Grace]

So this is a dynasty and it goes way far back and it's going into the future his father football star his son football star on the coaching staff at the high.

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[Nancy Grace]

Crime stories with nancy grace.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Doctor.

[Nancy Grace]

Bethany marshall joining us let me introduce introduce her properly renowned psychoanalyst out of the la jurisdiction you can see her now on peacock she is an author.

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[Nancy Grace]

Deal breakers which is on amazon you can find her at dr bethanymarshall dot com doctor bethany this is going to be a hard nut to crack you know why because when you pull jurors in for an ultimate jury trial this guy either they're going to know him personally or they're going to know his wife who's very active in the football community and the community at large his sons he's also got a daughter who's in high school right now middle school his father they have an excellent reputation in the community and it's going to be very difficult for them to believe this guy did anything of the sort they would probably fall for some zany conspiracy theory like the child porn was planted on his computer i mean i could see somebody actually believing that i.

[Doctor Bethany Marshall (Alternate or same as B)]

Agree with you nancy the whole community is probably still in denial at this point and we saw this with jerry sandusky larry nassar with the catholic priests is that older white males typically are protected when child pornography charges are brought against them it is just so typical but nancy think about the broader story here who was this guy soliciting was it some underrated minor at the school there did that minor go to their parents did the parents then pull on that thread go to the administration were there complaints brought to the administration about coach travis but those complaints went ignored we're going to learn so much about this are there a group of child predators in that community or in that state who are sharing images back and forth we saw you know with jerry sandusky nancy once the charges were brought against him remember all the kids he coached started coming out of the woodwork and saying oh yeah he asked me to take a shower with him and i thought it was kind of strange but then i just decided just to ignore it because he was my coach and i wanted to play on the team who is going to come forward in this case my hope is that every parent of a child in that school is going to sit down with their kid and ask about their interactions with this coach so they can determine if their child has been a victim and give them the appropriate support they.

[Mark Tate]

Need.

[Nancy Grace]

To mark tate joining us high profile defense lawyer with the tate law group mark tate this is a defense attorney's dream come true to be defending a veteran football coach who has touched the lives of thousands of students of thousands of families in a good way his father the same his son the same his wife the same i mean they're going to walk into this courtroom with basically a halo a halo over.

[Mark Tate]

Their heads we faced this kind of problem when we were pursuing the catholic church and the boy scouts and absolutely juries and judges and the community especially in you know large catholic communities or a large community that has a lot of people involved in scouting you have a definite bias in favor of what we think is the perpetrator and against accusers people simply don't want to believe that this kind of thing could happen in their own community to people they trust and so a defense lawyer can certainly use that to his or her advantage in presenting their defense to this case and so i think the prosecutors will be armed with fantastic research and development of the charges against him and i think that there's experience in doing it and i think that that bias is something to be aware of but i think they can overcome it given this situation because it's equally hard as they support him they can turn hard against him when they start to see facts that are unrefutable as the team heads into playoffs without their leader tension.

[Dave Mack]

Rises in wise county the school district.

[Mark Tate]

Suspends an employee with pay sparking speculation.

[Dave Mack]

That the missing coach travis turner is involved.

[Nancy Grace]

So to samantha allen joining us wcyb the other individual at the high school was only suspended with pay.

[Samantha Allen]

Yes it's unconfirmed if that was exactly turner of course you can make a speculation and decide for yourself that the employee that was put on paid leave is travis turner but it still has been yet to be confirmed for the vsp so the virginia state police have yet to confirm if that is exactly the employee that was put on leave dave.

[Nancy Grace]

Mack crime stories i understood that one employee was put on leave and they were going to interrogate coach turner when he disappeared but she's right that could be one in the same right i mean you don't get fired for claims you have child porn on your computer you just get suspended with pay well.

[Dave Mack]

You'Ve got an investigation going that that's the whole point i believe that what we're talking about is the same person the investigators were headed to his house to talk to him they didn't have an arrest warrant or anything for him at the time they were merely going to investigate the allegations that they had been that they'd heard about and while they were on the way that's when we don't know see we don't know nancy did somebody call him you and.

[Nancy Grace]

The disney princesses can keep singing that i'm not sure that's all together fact sounds like fiction mark tate please they're on their way in their patrol car to his house to talk to him about child porn claims he double l n o they were going to arrest him why are we pretending oh they're.

[Mark Tate]

Going to arrest him i think that's exactly right and who knows if he got the tip off and i think the important thing to recall and i'm certainly not criticizing for this but there's a family lawyer who represents them who's already in play and i know that that lawyer wouldn't condone in any way someone becoming a fugitive but we know that when the police get there this family lawyer should he be involved at that point is going to tell the coach not to be talking and so if he's afraid to do that thinking he's going to get arrested either way which he is he's going to head to the woods.

[Nancy Grace]

Mark tate earlier you said maybe he was tipped off okay so while ellie law enforcement virginia state police are on their way ninety mph to his place to talk to him he suddenly goes on a solo walk into the woods with a gun yes he was tipped off they're coming to get you now who could have done that oh somebody within the police force could it have been someone he coached that played on his team that bears an investigation right there how did he.

[Mark Tate]

Know it could be obviously anybody who has sufficient knowledge about it absolutely well.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah but they had to be within the police department because they had to know cops were on the way to talk to him as samantha allen said samantha also we have searched and searched for the actual charges the verbatim charges i was looking hoping to find the age of the alleged victims in this case couldn't find them and i believe that is because there has not been a grand jury proceeding charging him there is not a formal indictment is that correct yes no yes correct there's not a formal indictment so when we say there are five charges of child porn and five charges regarding soliciting a minor on a computer for sex those are police charges for instance you know samantha allen you and i get in a bar fight i crack you on the head with the bottle first of all police arrest me on charges of aggravated assault with a broken bottle that's the first thing then it goes to a grand jury where they hear evidence and they issue a formal indictment so the charges we're talking about tonight are police charges is that correct yes yes it's.

[Samantha Allen]

An investigation that's still ongoing.

[Irv Brandt]

Now i.

[Nancy Grace]

Want to talk to you about a subtle but critical discrepancy we are now being told through the family lawyer that turner excuse me undefeated football coach travis turner goes into the woods in a sweatsuit and a gun but isn't it true on the police report there was no mention of a gun yes so.

[Samantha Allen]

The police report just says gray sweatshirt gray sweatpants and glasses and then we hear throughout rumors throughout the whole entire week that he was carrying a firearm he went into the woods then we get a statement from the attorney that was released saying nothing about what he was wearing just yes he walked into the woods with a firearm the firearm is undisclosed we don't know what he walked in with or who saw him that is not told to us we have no clue who saw him walk into the woods or where they got that information and we've asked the attorney for clarification and he's yet to give.

[Nancy Grace]

It to us brian fitzgibbons don't you think that that is a critical fact that was not in the police report why was it not in the police report i don't believe it's because police forgot i don't believe they were told about the gun at the get go.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah that certainly would be the case because you know all too often especially when you're searching for a fugitive police are going to release information that somebody is expected to be armed you know so the public is aware of that so i would think that if it were included to police on the outset that that would have been initially reported.

[Nancy Grace]

By police i mean irv brant you're the former senior inspector with the us marshals service international investigations for pete's sake isn't that an important fact that you would want the public to know at the very beginning don't approach this guy.

[Irv Brandt]

He'S armed yes nancy that's exactly right determining the suspect's potential for violence and public safety is foremost in law enforcement efforts in conducting a fugitive investigation and we always warn the public not to approach a fugitive i mean even if there is no indication of a firearm it's safer to assume that someone has access to a firearm and we don't want the general public to endanger their lives while trying to assist law enforcement.

[Dave Mack]

United states marshals service joins the hunt for turner still listed as a missing person having last been seen november twentieth the marshals service is offering a reward of up to five thousand dollars tips can be reported to nine hundred and eleven the virginia state police the united states marshals service one eight seven seven wanted two or online usmarshals dot gov tips authorities said he may be armed so caution is advised travis turner's biggest fan and supporter is his wife leslie her facebook page is a place where union high football fans gather online to get updates on the team leslie regularly encourages the team on her page including one post five days before turner disappeared game day good luck to my guys today and to all of union's football team and coaches after turner vanishes leslie posts i just wanted to get on here for a second to clear up something as of right now ten twenty five pm on friday night travis is missing and that's all we know we love him and need him here with us thank you to everyone who has reached out with love and support it means more than you know just keep praying that he comes home the post was deleted a short time later.

[Nancy Grace]

The mom his wife leslie the mother of his three children posting about turner vanishing but then she deletes that and says.

[Dave Mack]

This as the search for travis turner continues wife leslie shuts down her social media and has only made one public comment saying none of that is true he's a good dad and a good husband and we want him home that's.

[Nancy Grace]

It i want to talk about the search the ongoing search for football coach the undefeated coach travis turner but first i want to understand the charges five counts of child porn five counts using computer to solicit a minor first of all he has been referred to as the perv coach the pedo coach but to doctor bethany marshall explain to me the desire a guy in his position working with children would have to see children being abused molested or children naked.

[Doctor Bethany Marshall (Alternate or same as B)]

Well he's going to have a very specific offending pattern which will come out in the grand jury and when we learn more about this story but usually pedophiles if the allegations are true generally like prepubescent children and when the children turn thirteen or fourteen they age out they're no longer desirable or they like to have power over minors and then that's a part of the offending pattern imagining that a fourteen fifteen or sixteen year old girl or boy could be a boyfriend or a girlfriend but what happens with these perpetrators is that they can only become sexually aroused through relationships with children right so they want to see children naked they want to see children maybe in the showers in the locker room they want to pass images around and what happens is they need more and more to stimulate their arousal so the images become more and more sensationalized so they might start out just with a picture of a baby or a picture of a minor and then they want to see a minor having sex with another minor and then it's just sort of escalates from there i think probably what happened in this case similar like let's say robert morris who was a pastor he founded gateway church he molested children for years okay he predated on minors and all the deacons in the church surrounded him and protected him and it took one girl that he molested in the eighties who came out last year wrote a letter and exposed him and she got threats from the deacons in the church because she wanted to expose him but she was brave she went forward she did expose him and now he's left the church and you know has been brought up on charges and all of a sudden.

[Nancy Grace]

I'M very curious bethany as to whether the this inclination starts early on it's very difficult when you have a famous even just locally famous icon charged in a case like this and let me refer everyone to the hit reality series nineteen kids and counting remember the duggar family that had i think it ended up with like twenty children okay listen.

[Irv Brandt]

To this our son josh came to us on his own and he was crying and he had just turned fourteen and he said that he had actually improperly touched some of our daughters he.

[Nancy Grace]

Said he was just curious about girls.

[Irv Brandt]

And he had gone in and just basically touched them over their clothes while they were asleep and they didn't even.

[Nancy Grace]

Know he had done it none of the victims were aware of what happened.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

Until joshua confessed and then it wasn't.

[Nancy Grace]

Like we were keeping a secret afraid or something it was we didn't know until josh explained to my parents what that from the kelly file now that was when duger was fourteen years old nothing was done all right it was swept under the rug and then fast forward a few years this we were.

[Irv Brandt]

Able to get from this ip address one specific video of child pornography and.

[Mark Tate]

One folder containing approximately sixty five images.

[Irv Brandt]

Of child pornography from a specific ip.

[Mark Tate]

Address we served a federal summons for that ip address that ip address came.

[Irv Brandt]

Back to ozarks go okay with a subscriber of josh duggar with cell phone i'm assuming that's personal cell phone with.

[Mark Tate]

That email address that you just mentioned.

[Nancy Grace]

So doctor metheny it started that we know of of him molesting his sisters at age fourteen that's when we find out about it and then fast forward when he's got a wife and a family he's downloading child porn sound familiar so does this start when you're a.

[Doctor Bethany Marshall (Alternate or same as B)]

Child yes it does pedophilia is considered like a fixed arousal pattern that is there from birth now it's hard to really measure because children under the age of five six or seven don't draw sexual images don't talk about sex so so it doesn't really emerge until later in life but you know the most common age of a child molester is age thirteen and josh duggar was fourteen at this point and the reason for that is that's when they become aware of sex and that's when they begin to molest and that's when they have access to siblings to classmates to things like that but see we see again here that the community protected him and he went on to molest even more.

[Nancy Grace]

Well speaking of community protecting him and someone being famous who's actually child molester do i even have to say former subway sandwich pitch man jared fogel listen to fogle caught on tape yeah especially.

[Dave Mack]

Some of the middle schools i love the middle schools and the girls are starting to get you know yeah because you know how much i love big.

[Mark Tate]

You know i love you.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys did you hear jared fogle the subway pitch guy he lost two hundred and forty five pounds eating nothing but subway sandwiches and appeared in like three hundred subway commercials superstar yeah especially at some of the middle school i love middle schools the girls are just starting to get boobs because you know how much i love big boobs you know i love huge tits if i heard my son say the word tit i don't care if he's six foot six i would wash his mouth out with soap and it goes on and on i just played you a little snippet of this perv jared fogle the dugars what the hey and now this coach who by the way is innocent until proven guilty i want to talk about the search to irv brandt joining us former senior inspector us marshals service international investigations branch do you remember the glam yoga coach remember her caitlin armstrong she murdered a world class dirt bike rider gorgeous young girl yeah there's the yoga instructor right there and she was spotted on airport video and it was totally her oh there you go with her yoga mat ding ding ding it's me everybody here i am the yoga instructor with a yoga mat so i guess the first thing you do is go to the.

[Irv Brandt]

Airport serve that's exactly right nancy and as you were talking about this this was the first case that came to mind was armstrong case when you start a fugitive investigation you don't start it on any assumptions an unreliable witness saying that i mean you investigate all possible leads of course but you don't you know concentrate your entire efforts you're going to put out the bolos to different states you're going to flag passports you're going to check dls you're going to look for all vehicles associated with the suspect and also the suspect's family and also the suspect's friends to see if any have gone missing and just like in the armstrong case it wasn't her passport that they found had left the country it was her sister's passport that had left the country and she was still in the country so it's it's very similar the the cases the way it's conducted goes along those same lines you're going to look for financial means you're going to search for tags on known vehicles you're going to you're going to use every investigative tool that you have conducting this search locally then nationally eventually internationally well yeah and a way.

[Nancy Grace]

To do that to brian fitz gibbons from uspa nationwide security i want to find out this has he used his atm when was the last time he used his atm where did he use it do i have a picture how much did he withdraw did he do repeat withdrawals because you know some atm's you can only get say dollar two hundred at a crack did he go into a line of credit to get more money has he used his credit cards where is his car has he used a rental car did he get a rental car even in an adjoining county beyond wise county do we have video what about license plate grabbers i haven't heard a word about his car being missing that tells me he's not in his car he may be in another car and also this search if they have brought out drones cadaver dogs scent dogs everything shoulder to shoulder searches you name it that tells me he wasn't in the woods to start with so where is he he's not on foot i can tell you that much he's not hiding out at somebody's house a sympathizer so where is he where do we start kneeling a haystack well.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

What irv brandt just brought up is a very prescient point here the financial means that travis turner has are probably not great so this you know how is he going to access funding to be on the run for long put him up so so that's something you.

[Nancy Grace]

Haven'T heard of a line of credit i certainly get a line of credit on your checking account you get one hundred grand out of a line of credit and be gone.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah i just think that this was an emergent he was tipped off that they were coming to his house to speak to him that this wasn't a planned escape so to speak so i think so who's helping him that this happened very quickly i think that's gonna be out in.

[Nancy Grace]

The woods in the snow yeah who.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Knew that they were coming out there to speak to him who knew that law enforcement was on the way they're certainly gonna have some cell phone records that are available for who called and text communicated with his phone and i think that they will uncover that in.

[Nancy Grace]

The coming days here okay i think correct me if i'm wrong samantha the closest airport is in appalachia virginia the tri cities regional airport that's in blountville tennessee is that right fifty nine miles.

[Samantha Allen]

Away yes yes that is the closest.

[Nancy Grace]

Airport hmm to get from his home to there that's about at least an hour drive how did he get there if that's where he went i don't see him flying because wouldn't we have a register of that irv brandt wouldn't he have already been spotted if he had taken a plane.

[Irv Brandt]

It depends on the flight nancy of course when you're flying domestically all you need is a government id then investigators could check with tsa to see if he used valid government id to get into the airport if he flew internationally of course there'd be a record of that in text the treasury enforcement i don't see him.

[Nancy Grace]

Flying do you irv i think he's somewhere else i don't think he took.

[Irv Brandt]

A flight i would not know nancy like your other guests had said it doesn't seem like this was planned out in advance it was something that happened at the spur of the moment so most fugitives are going to avoid places where there's camera security police officers and there's hardly any place in the country that has more cameras and more police and more security than an airport and especially an international airport yeah so samantha.

[Nancy Grace]

Allen what's the temperature what's your low overnight in that area oh gosh it.

[Samantha Allen]

Is like it's probably reached about twenty six degrees and it is we got cold happening so it's like freezing cold.

[Nancy Grace]

Rain so he is not out in the woods roughing it i don't need to find out if he has taken camping gear with him he's somewhere else he's probably holed up at a local hotel motel hiding out not too close not too close which means he's got help brian fitzgibbons they better have a tap on everybody's phone because you know.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Daddy'S called home yeah certainly and one piece that i want to add here nancy that i think we we haven't really covered too much these charges are umbrella terms that are going to be standard for anytime someone's charged with possession of explicit child material so this could have been something he found online but i think it may be more likely that it's somebody from that high school right so investigators are going to be on it could have been a text message exchange or things like that so investigators are going to be unraveling a weave of a network of people that knew about this that have communicated about it so in the coming days i think we're going to learn more about exactly what type of material it was what the origin was and that network could shed some light on where you.

[Dave Mack]

Might.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

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[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

It'S the coziest time of year on britbox that means curling up with a gripping murder mystery basking in a sumptuous period drama or discovering a new hidden gem see the holidays differently when you stream the best of british tv with britbox watch britbox original series including the new season of the award winning belfast police drama blue lights however you cozy this holiday it's a bit warmer with britbox watch with a free trial at britbox dot com managing multiple accounts and logins for your marketing needs.

[Nancy Grace]

Is like managing multiple announcers one ad.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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[Irv Brandt]

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[Nancy Grace]

Stories with nancy grace martin tate you know what the defense is going to be because it's really hard to argue that's not my computer in my office behind the locked door he's going to have to say oh it just popped up you know in all the years that i do research i've never had child porn pop up not once.

[Mark Tate]

It'S not a very good defense and i think possibly they're going to have to if he ever gets indicted and ever is found i think that a more creative approach is going to have to possibly be found and maybe find a way to cross examine the forensic folks who are going to found this material and say other people had passwords show that maybe show other people had access to the computer at work but i think it's found on your computer you have to find something else and it just popped up because it just doesn't work that way and the forensic folks find that and i know this because we found this kind of material as i've mentioned before in civil matters against catholic priests and rabbis and pediatricians and so it happens and it does not just pop up on your computer it's an active search the searches are traceable and so that defense is a failure but again this guy's still wandering and everybody's focused on airports and how tight the security is there nancy but but there's an amtrak station in bristol and those avenues like amtrak are far less secure than an airplane but all of it gets back to getting him indicted and then getting him in front of a jury with a lawyer who can craft something to have one juror say i've got a reason to doubt these charges it's going to be an interesting.

[Nancy Grace]

You'Re right about amtrak i look forward to it and amtrak is cheap and you don't have to go through a lot of security i don't know that you even have to show id to buy a ticket in cash you can go on amtrak yeah all the way across the country of course which would leave somewhat of a trail if they've got video surveillance in the amtrak station but you can go all the way across the country for under two hundred dollars without a trail a trail that you would leave at the airport but you know mark tate this is not the first time union high school has had to deal with sex allegations against a coach or teacher right that's exactly.

[Mark Tate]

Right i think that's fascinating that's the kind of thing obviously that a plaintiff's lawyer a lawyer pursuing civil remedies for this kind of thing looks to and this high school has this fellow another football coach timothy lee met who pled guilty or was convicted of child solicitation of soliciting a minor for sexual or inappropriate purposes so it's not the first time that that union high school has had a problem and you know there may be a deeper issue involved obviously that's something that should and will be investigated what exactly is going on there why is this a repeat situation the metter guy was about twenty years younger than the actual head coach but there's something bizarre at that high school from my viewpoint trying to hold people accountable other than this man who has disappeared.

[Nancy Grace]

And you know another thing about what you're saying mark is the same lawyer the same lawyer who represented timothy medder the previous coach last teacher at the same high school that pled guilty to indecent liberties with a minor he got a light sentence about a year and three months and then he was out free he gets a slap on the wrist same high school and now this happens and within the same school district which is wise county the same county there's another guy a teacher arrest on three counts carnal knowledge that was tyler j tibbs a social studies teacher at coburn middle so you know doctor bethany marshall that makes it worse as far as the union high goes because they should have been on high alert after.

[Doctor Bethany Marshall (Alternate or same as B)]

Meadows yes they should have there's two kinds of cultures when it comes to these kinds of crimes a culture who supports the children and a culture like what we saw in the catholic church who supports the adults and cannot believe that a child molester is a child molester but nancy i want to go back to him being a fugitive i am going to guess if the family hired the same attorney that they knew that there was an investigation going on that the family was talking about this and the family probably has information on dad father spouse on whether or not he was making any preparations that were unusual or out of the ordinary for him like as you said getting cash was he talking about other states anything like that they could be a treasure trove of information as we go to.

[Nancy Grace]

Air tonight football coach travis turner is presumed innocent his team has gone on to win again they remain undefeated even in his absence if you know or think you know anything about what happened if you know a child that may have been a victim if you know where he is or where he's headed if you think you've seen him please call virginia state police two seven six four eight four nine four eight three or you can always call the us marshals service one eight seven seven wanted that's one eight seven seven nine two six eight three three two there is a five thousand dollar reward for travis turner and now we remember an american hero guard member sarah beckstrom west virginia national guard just twenty years old shot in the line of duty leaving behind her grieving father gary american hero guard member sarah beckstrom nancy gray signing off goodbye friend.

[Dr. Bethany Marshall]

Decluttering is everything it clears your space your mind and it can give you shopping power with trashy just buy a trashy bag fill it with anything you no longer to need then ship it free and earn rewards points instantly earn points even faster when you shop exclusive trashy deals and redeem them for gift cards to brands you love or even donate them to charity it's never been easier to turn clutter into shopping power get started today at trashy io that's t r a s h.

[Nancy Grace]

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[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

It'S the coziest time of year on britbox that means curling up with a gripping murder mystery basking in a sumptuous period drama or discovering a new hidden gem see the holidays differently when you stream the best of british tv with britbox watch britbox original series including the new season of the award winning belfast police drama blue lights however you cozy this holiday it's a bit warmer with britbox watch with a free trial at britbox dot com every.

[Irv Brandt]

Story begins somewhere for your child it could begin with a guardian bike built right here in the usa engineered for safety and designed for confidence kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day no tears no frustration it's why guardian is america's favorite kids bike and the new york times and wirecutter's top pick three years in a row this holiday season give the gift that's safer smarter and built to last visit guardianbikes dot com to save up to forty percent on all bikes plus a free accessory bundle worth over one.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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