"WE SEARCHED INTO THE NIGHT": DARIUS, 6, VANISHES ON FAMILY CAMPING TRIP

Summary

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Episode: "WE SEARCHED INTO THE NIGHT": DARIUS, 6, VANISHES ON FAMILY CAMPING TRIP

Date: October 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Nancy Grace investigates the mysterious disappearance of six-year-old Darius McDougal during a family camping trip in Alberta, Canada’s rugged Crow’s Nest Pass. The show scrutinizes the events leading up to Darius’s vanishing, the sprawling search effort, and the ensuing criticism against the family. Through testimony from experts, law enforcement, and reporters, Nancy examines possible explanations—from getting lost to abduction or foul play—while highlighting the complexities faced when children go missing in wild, densely wooded environments. The episode not only reconstructs the family’s harrowing ordeal but also confronts broader issues of public judgment in high-profile missing child cases.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Setting and Disappearance

[01:41–03:37]

• Darius, a six-year-old described as autistic and vulnerable, disappears while playing with other children on a small island near the family’s camping site in Crow’s Nest Pass.
• Adults, while packing, kept a watchful eye, but in one brief moment of inattention, Darius vanished.
• The rugged, uneven terrain—combined with creeks, forest, and small islands—posed immense challenges to the search.

Nancy Grace [02:25]: “I'm not sure how you lose a child on a camping trip, but it's happened a lot… Everything’s running crazy. How could a little boy vanish into thin air and be gone so quickly he can't be found?”

The Terrain and Search Difficulties

[03:55–06:49, 27:05–28:23]

• Steven Tipper (Post Media) and Brian Fitzgibbons (USPA Security) describe the landscape: dense forests, rivers, bogs, and uneven, mountainous terrain.
• Searching with dogs and volunteers was hampered by how quickly and easily someone—especially a child—could become disoriented.

Brian Fitzgibbons [04:59]: “This terrain is possibly some of the least ideal terrain for a search like this to take place.”

The Psychology of Lost Children

[06:49–07:53]

• Dr. Trey Sargent (psychology and search/rescue) and Karen Stark (forensic psychologist) discuss the cognitive limitations of young children when lost, especially those with autism.
• Such children often hide out of fear—a survival instinct—making them even harder to find.

Dr. Trey Sargent [05:26]: “Children at this age don't… understand where they are, how to get back… They become very disoriented, very frightened. Oftentimes they hide because that's a survival mechanism.”

Family Panic and Emotional Toll

[07:32–09:08]

• Karen Stark and Nancy Grace relate the panic and tunnel vision families experience, sharing personal stories to illustrate the emotional chaos and shock.
• The “blur” of panic is contrasted with the need for rational and rapid search action.

Nancy Grace [07:53]: “Everything else seemed to be a blur, like a dark gray, reddish blur all around me except for clutching Lucy and running to those front doors.”

Timeline and Initial Search

[09:43–12:24, 32:16–33:42]

• Darius was last seen playing with Kaya and a cousin on the small island in view of adults. The disappearance was near-instant—“they turned their back and he was gone.”
• Family searched for about an hour before alerting authorities, which experts regard as reasonable under camping circumstances.

Ann Bremner [33:23]: “I think an hour is not extreme. They might have looked for him for more than an hour… being satisfied they could find him.”

Autism-Specific Search Strategies

[10:52–13:05]

• The family and searchers were careful to avoid loud noises or bright lights, as Darius did not respond well due to his autism.
• Instead, they attempted to play his favorite song to lure him out, a tactic commended by experts as appropriate for some autistic children.

Karen Stark [12:24]: “Children who are autistic… sometimes they're afraid, sometimes they're distracted… playing his favorite song, that might be something that he could respond to.”

Public Judgment & Family Scrutiny

[15:33–19:36, 21:34–24:13]

• The family faces severe criticism online, with many accusing them or suspecting a cover-up.
• Nancy and her legal/psychology panelers agree that blaming the family is unjust and driven by people’s desire for control or simple answers in chaos.
• Statistical discussion: traditionally, family or someone close is usually involved in missing child cases, leading to public suspicion, though in this situation, experts caution against hasty conclusions.

Ann Bremner [17:52]: “How could… everybody there conspire to cover up a disappearance… that's gonna be so difficult to stomach for anybody?”

Nancy Grace [22:59]: “I think… it feels better to have somebody to blame because… it makes you feel safer. Because in your mind you’re like, well, I would never do that.”

Scale and Scope of the Search

[26:34–29:52, 42:05–43:49]

• The search was massive: over 400 volunteers, helicopters, drones, dogs, horses, boat-mounted sonar, and tactical teams combed over 13 square miles.
• Despite exhaustive effort (11,000 volunteer hours; 5,300 kilometers covered), not a single piece of evidence—no clothing, no footprints, no sign of Darius—was found.
• Cadaver dogs failed to locate any scent; area was heavily searched multiple times, including bogs and rivers.

Narrator [29:14]: “More than 400 search and rescue volunteers… contributed to 11,000 hours of search effort.”

Nancy Grace [42:05]: “No clothing, no footprints, no signs of Darius were found… cadaver dogs also searched the area and detected no trace.”

Crowd’s Nest Pass: Remote or Not?

[39:05–41:22]

• The Crow’s Nest Pass region is both wild and popular with locals and tourists (pop. 5,700; 300,000 annual visitors), raising the possibility of an opportunistic predator.
• Nancy references serial killer Israel Keyes to underscore the risk of vulnerable places with high stranger access.

Nancy Grace [39:56]: “It’s not like the family is out there all by themselves… This is like a stalker—a predator’s happy hunting ground.”

Expert Opinions on What Could Have Happened

[44:45–45:43]

• The panel weighs possible scenarios:
  • Darius could have wandered off and perished, but the lack of scent/clues is perplexing.
  • An animal attack is possible, but typically animal predation leaves evidence within the grid.
  • Abduction by a stranger becomes a plausible theory, given the area’s popularity and complete lack of physical evidence.

Brian Fitzgibbons [44:51]: “You would still hit with [cadaver dogs] if that were the case… A human would absolutely take the child miles and miles away.”

The Kaya Twist – Another Child’s Death

[46:34–47:28]

• Kaya, the six-year-old playing with Darius at the time, died days later from a medical emergency unrelated to the disappearance, according to investigators.
• This tragic development introduces a chilling coincidence that Nancy and Ann Bremner both question, referencing the adage that “lightning doesn’t strike twice.”

Ann Bremner [47:29]: “There are no coincidences in criminal law… When I saw that I thought if I were the prosecutor, I’d be paying a lot more attention to this case.”

The Ongoing Search and Family Statements

[34:47–35:32]

• Darius’s mother pleads for help and asks the public to continue sharing her son’s photo.
• Police publicly state there is no sign of foul play, but Nancy and her experts challenge the definitiveness of this statement.

Nancy Grace [35:52]: “How can he just right off the bat rule out foul play? How did they get to that?”

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Memorable Quotes

• Nancy Grace [03:37]: “A child gets lost in those trees, that’s going to be really hard to find, even with dogs, even with cadets, shoulder to shoulder.”
• Brian Fitzgibbons [25:40]: “The numbers don’t lie about that, Nancy. That is for sure. And in this case… this group was isolated camping, so no one else effectively was nearby them or knew who this boy was.”
• Karen Stark [22:07]: “They are distracted so easily. They can't help it. And they're impulsive, they run away, they're sensitive.”
• Ann Bremner [24:13]: “With social media these days… everybody's commenting on all these cases and they're like, oh, well, I figure the parents did it… these conspiracy theorists and those that want to blame families and blame people involved in a tragedy…”
• Nancy Grace [39:56]: “You ever heard the name Israel Keyes? …This is like a stalker—a predator’s happy hunting ground.”
• Ann Bremner [47:29]: “There are no coincidences in criminal law…”

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:41 – Nancy introduces the case and sets up the timeline and critical questions.
• 03:55 – Terrain and search obstacles described.
• 06:49 – Psychological response of families and children in these crises.
• 09:43 – Sequence of events leading up to Darius’s disappearance.
• 12:24 – Autism-informed search tactics.
• 15:33 – Family scrutiny and impact of online accusations.
• 26:34 – Quantifying the scale of the search.
• 30:43–31:45 – Eye-witness accounts and timeline confusion.
• 32:16–33:42 – Discussion on the hour’s delay in calling 911.
• 39:05–41:22 – The possibility of stranger abduction and local context.
• 42:05–44:45 – Search results: No evidence, no scent, no sign of Darius.
• 46:34–47:28 – Breaking news: death of Kaya, other child present during disappearance.

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Episode Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is urgent, emotional, and forensic—characterized by Nancy Grace’s signature blend of compassion for victims, tough questioning of details, and skepticism toward anything that “doesn’t add up.” Expert guests contribute somber, rational analysis and cross-disciplinary perspectives while frequently reiterating the unpredictability and tragedy at the core of these stories.

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Final Note

As Nancy Grace closes, she appeals to the public for information and empathy rather than blame, underscoring the continued search. The central message: Darius’s case remains open, mysterious, and desperately in need of public vigilance and sensitivity.

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TIP LINE: If you have information, call 403-562-2866.

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Transcript

[Nancy Grace]

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I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Tristan Redman in London and this is the global story.

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Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

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Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Straight Arrow News Host]

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[Nancy Grace]

We searched into the night says a desperate family after little Darius, just six years old, vanishes on an extended family camping trip. How could a little six year old boy vanish into thin air while the adults were watching him play with other children? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[Narrator / Reporter]

What was meant to be a peaceful family getaway in the wilderness of Alberta, Canada, has turned into a devastating mystery. The McDougal family, eager to create lasting memories, was thrown into chaos when one of the young children, Juan.

[Nancy Grace]

I have taken the children from a very young age all across the country RVing and camping. I'm not sure how you lose a child on a camping trip, but it's happened a lot. This isn't the first time a child has gone missing on a camping trip. The parents, the grandparents, there was extended family or family friends there. They were all packing to leave and go back home. And you know when you're packing, packing up the RV or the station wagon or the suv, you turn your back, right, you're loading it up, everything's running crazy. But how could A little boy vanish into thin air and be gone so quickly he can't be found. Okay, let's start at the beginning. Listen.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Six year old Darius on a camping trip with dad, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, Dad's girlfriend Buffy and her daughter Kaya. The family gathers to celebrate family birthdays, camping in Crow's Nest Pass with rivers, creeks, hiking areas and small islands close to shore where the children love to play.

[Nancy Grace]

Let me just start right there because I need to understand the terrain. Joining me in all star panel, but I want to go first to Stephen Tipper joining us from Post Media. Stephen, thank you for being with us. Could you just, let me just start with the terrain where they were camping. Tell me about it.

[Steven Tipper]

Yeah, it's a very uneven terrain. I mean lots of different kinds from, you know, level ground to a high level, you know, mountainous terrain. You know, there's, there's bodies of water there. It's, it's, you know, obviously in the, in the Rockies, so it's, you know, there's quite a varied, you know, mixture. I mean the, that they were looking at those trees.

[Nancy Grace]

Stephen Tipper. Stephen, joining us investigating. Get a reporter with Post Media. Check it out. Brian Fitzgibbon, Fitzgibbons director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, who leads a team of expert investigators specializing in finding missing people. Look at those trees, Brian. I mean, what I'm saying is a child gets lost in those trees, that's going to be really hard to find. Even with dogs, even with cadets, shoulder to shoulder. Did you see that picture we just showed Fitzgibbons?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah, absolutely. This is rugged terrain, Nancy. And you can see as you know, the thick forest, the dense forest there makes not only the search complicated, but for the six year old child who's missing, he's quickly disoriented once he's separated from his group. So this terrain is possibly some of the least ideal terrain for a search like this to take place.

[Nancy Grace]

Fitz Gibbons, I worked as a heightmaster teaching tree identification. Believe it or not, in a national forest I always had to carry a compass with me just in case you get disoriented. Like you were just saying in those trees where everywhere you look everything looks the same. That happens. It's a phenomenon. Dr. Trey Sargent joining us, PhD in psychology, focus on victimology and in a previous life, search, rescue, recovery expert. It happens. It's a phenomenon. You get in those trees and they all seem to look alike and you get turned around and you don't know which way where you came from or where you're trying to go if you don't have a compass, much less a six year old little boy. That's absolutely right, Nancy. Children at this age don't have the capability and the maturity and the growth of their minds to understand where they are, how to get back where they want to be. They become very disoriented, they become very frightened. Oftentimes they hide because that's a survival mechanism. Oftentimes they cover themselves up, they get underneath logs. Not only the challenge of the terrain itself, but then you have this very, very small child in itself. It's going to be very difficult to.

[Karen Stark]

See even in the best of circumstances.

[Nancy Grace]

And to Karen Stark joining us, forensic psychologist, renowned TV radio trauma [e-mail] Karen? Okay, just for a moment, don't think about the little six year old. Think about the family when they realize he's gone. And I'm still I got to get back with Steven Tipper about this. I still don't get how they're camping, they see him playing with the other children, they're packing, they turn around, he's gone. I'm trying to figure out that timeline. But think about them suddenly looking for him, Karen and they're upset and emotional and they're going into the trees and everybody's disseminating and it's basically all h e double breaks loose without a doubt.

[Karen Stark]

Because how can you not be so upset? This is a 6 year old, their child, their grandchild, their relative and friends and everybody is searching for this little boy. They would be in a complete panic. Nancy, you would be. I would be. What can happen? Anything.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, you know, put Karen Stark up, please. Karen, you and I talked after this happened and this is just a very small, very small comparison. I've told you when John Dave, about John David, when he was before he was three and we were in that giant super baby superstore and I was down, crouched down trying to find organic sunscreen. Anyway, I stood up, I turned around, there was Lucy. No John David. Remember? I picked Lucy up like a football and started running and screaming to lock the doors up front that my son was missing. Now that you're talking, I've never thought about this before, but everything else seemed to be a blur, like a dark gray, reddish blur all around me except for clutching Lucy and running to those front doors. I don't even know why I was running toward the front doors. I guess to try to stop the doors from opening and somebody taking him out. Little did I know he was playing hide and seek with Mommy and was a few rows away, but it took a minute to find him. But when you say they get disoriented, that can happen because you're so focused tunnel vision on where is he? You're not thinking about what's happening around you.

[Karen Stark]

And they're like as you described, Nancy, in suspended animation in a way because you really don't know what to do. You're not aware of what you're doing, your heart is stuck, you can't breathe and you're just panicking. How can you not? That's exactly what happened with you and John.

[Nancy Grace]

DAVID I'm trying to figure out though how he could get away. KAREN STARK and just like that, as a matter of fact of fact, I want you to hear these facts before we analyze any further tonight. Where is this six year old little boy? How did he just vanish into thin air? Listen to this.

[Narrator / Reporter]

As the family is packing up to head home, Darius, Kaya and a cousin are on a small island directly across from the camping area in clear view of the adults. The children turn their back for a second and Darius is gone. Father and grandfather immediately begin searching, going different directions on the small island to cover the entire area, planning to find Darius before they meet in the middle.

[Nancy Grace]

Steven Tipper joining us, investigative reporter with Post Media. Steven, again, thank you for being with us tonight. STEVEN I'm still trying to nail down exactly what happened and I'm not saying it didn't happen just like they're describing it. I remember when Samantha Runyon went missing, she was with her grandma and grandma was at, I think the kitchen sink looking out into the front yard where Samantha 3 was playing with some other children. And a guy comes up and takes her out of the front yard just like that. And before grandma can get out there, he was gone 60 miles per hour. So it can happen just like that. But I need to understand the Runyon case. Explain to me again how did this happen?

[Steven Tipper]

Yeah, so I mean, they were packing up and getting ready to leave, as you say, and I mean, you know, they just turn their backs. That's what the family says. And he was gone. You know, Darius is autistic. He doesn't like loud noises or bright lights. And that kind of did affect the search. You know, the searchers did avoid those kinds of things. They avoided making loud noises or bright lights during the search.

[Nancy Grace]

STEVEN I don't understand that. I do not understand. How can you avoid loud noises and lights during a search? You've got to call out for the boy, maybe on a loudspeaker, maybe you know, and as it got darker, I'm sure that they were using bright lights. How were they avoiding loud sounds and bright lights and searching for him?

[Steven Tipper]

Right. I mean. I mean, to the best of the rapids. I'm sure that they were doing that. There were some sounds that he found appealing as well. He had a favorite song that they would use extensively during the search. They didn't say what that song was, but certainly, you know, there were efforts to try and appeal to Darius.

[Nancy Grace]

STEVEN I see what you're saying. Would that be soothing to him? KAREN STARK they were trying to play his favorite. Maybe it was a lullaby. They haven't told us what the song was. Trying to find him and lure him out.

[Karen Stark]

I think that that was a brilliant idea. Nancy because children who are autistic, they don't necessarily respond to calling you their name. Sometimes they're afraid, sometimes they're distracted, and yet they need to be able to reach him. So playing his favorite song, that might be something that he could respond to. They get easily distracted. That happens all the time. They're impulsive and they get scared. Any little child will get scared. But if you're autistic, you're particularly scared, Frightened you were in the forest.

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[Asma Khalid]

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[Narrator / Reporter]

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[Straight Arrow News Host]

Straight Arrow News. Find facts and context you've been craving quickly Find trusted information you need to understand the news. Watch what you want when you want. Catch up on the news at home or on the go with your own news queue. Dive deep into the topics that matter to you and the world around you. Navigate everything you need to know about the topics shaping your world. Understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting on a story so you get a full picture of the news. Welcome back to trustworthy journalism. San.com hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

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Seemintmobile.com Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. Joining me now, high profile Seattle lawyer Ann Bremner. This is her neck of the woods. She's a veteran trial lawyer, legal analyst, author of justice in the Age of Judgment. Ann Bremmner, I want to thank you for being with us when we were just describing and there's Steven Tipper talking about it from postmedia and Karen Stark about playing the music. All I can think about, Ann is as I still call him, Ann. You haven't seen him in a couple of years. But John David is six, six now. But I still think of him as little Lucy and baby John David. And I can just all I can do, Ann, is think about baby John David out in that forest. And I'm trying to play his favorite lullaby or song to lure him out. And a lot of people have been attacking the family and the parents and I really believe that is uncalled for. Just like when I was in the superstore, I was down on a floor level shelf trying to find organic suntan lotion and I was staring right at John David for a good 30 seconds to a minute. He had on those little tennis shoes and he ran several aisles away. It happens that the best parents have to load the car. The best parents, you know, go in the kitchen to turn off the lady P's. I mean, I don't. And another thing, Ann Bremmer, regarding the attacks on the family, for one of the family members to have been, let's just put it out there to be responsible for his disappearance. What, is there a big conspiracy and all the other family members are lying about it, not telling what they know? I find that hard to believe that other family members are covering up for one family member that was either negligent or intentionally vindictive or evil. I don't believe it.

[Ann Bremner]

Well, Nancy, it's such an honor and a pleasure to be on with you again. And that's brilliant. I mean, you're right. I mean, how could you, everybody there, conspire to cover up a disappearance that was something that was caused by one person? I mean, that's just something that's going to be so difficult to stomach for anybody. And so the other thing is, like you said, when someone's going through something that's traumatic, like when you lost John David, God forbid, for a short period of time, why did it pile on? I think they're having to stop their comments on social media because people are attacking them, just kicking them when they're down. They're trying to find their loved one. And, you know, I live in a state that's got a lot of mountains and a lot of. Lot of. Mostly trees in Washington state, fir trees. And people get lost. Adults, too.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Ann Bramner, you're a veteran trial lawyer, and you got to give me more than that. You would never stand in front of an appellate court where you've been many times, or a trial judge where you've been even more times and say, hey, it happens. I need to understand how it happened. Because we all used Mark Class as the gold standard. When his daughter Polly went missing and police came to his door, the parents were separated and said, hey, your daughter's missing. He said, fine, take my fingerprints, look at my house, go to my office, look at my car. We'll do whatever you have to do so you, L.A. law enforcement can move on to find my daughter and who took her. And they did. And he was cooperative. These parents have been completely cooperative. But a lot of people online are stuck on the parents. Now let's analyze why it's not the family.

[Ann Bremner]

Well, yeah, I mean, the bottom line is that why would. Hey, why would they do this? You know, what's the motive and where did he go? I mean, where's the evidence that somehow they secreted him someplace?

[Nancy Grace]

Now, that's important because you and I both learned, Ann, not to say why. You know, why would anybody kill their child? Why? There is no good why. But that's a good point. A go.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Where.

[Nancy Grace]

Where are you going to go your whole Family's there, your vehicles are there. Where are you going? To hide the child. And B, you would have to believe the entire group was covering for one of the perps, I. E. The mom or dad. That simply is not feasible. Okay, listen to this.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Searching the island and screaming his name. Daria seems to have vanished into thin air. 911 is called and within 20 minutes a command post is set up and organized searches by the RCMP. Search and rescue begin.

[Steven Tipper]

The weather is in our favor.

[Narrator / Reporter]

The young man does not suffer from any health issues.

[Steven Tipper]

There is no reason to believe that there will not be a positive outcome.

[Nancy Grace]

Global news.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Six year old Darius McDougal, known for his infectious laughter and playful spirit, joined his father and sister's girlfriend on a camping trip. They met up with family ready to create cherished memories. But amidst the joy, an unthinkable event was about to unfold.

[Nancy Grace]

Straight out to Steven Tipper joining us, investigative reporter, Post Media. Could you explain to me who all was on this camping trip? They were there celebrating multiple birthdays. Who was there?

[Steven Tipper]

Yes. So Darius's father, his grandfather, grandmother, the father's girlfriend and her daughter were there, as well as various aunts and uncles and cousins.

[Nancy Grace]

We're all there, you know, to Karen Stark joining us, forensic psychologist. Many people, and I'm not agreeing with them, but I want to address it with you, many people are attacking the family saying they just got tired of dealing with an autistic child. I, I find that vile to say the parents didn't care about him because he's autistic or they had just reached their limit. So what, they killed him? I'm not buying into that at all. Could you please address that?

[Karen Stark]

Well, you know, that's what happens in these days. It's really terrible when people start attacking somebody, especially under these circumstances. They're traumatized by the loss of their child. And I think that it's just so easy to attack someone without understanding how difficult it is to deal with a child who's autistic. You could keep your eye on them all the time and blink and they'd be gone. They are distracted so easily. They can't help it. And they're impulsive, they run away, they're sensitive. Every noise could bother them. So it takes an incredible amount of work and to blame the family for any of this. So sad, Nancy. It's sad that that keeps happening too, don't you think?

[Nancy Grace]

Well, you know, I get the feeling of some of the blamers, you know. To Ann Bremner, high profile lawyer joining us out of Seattle. Ann I think that for a lot of people it feels better to have somebody to blame because you're like, I think I know what it is actually, and I'm going to ask our shrinks about this. You think, oh, the family wasn't watching him. That's how he got away. That's why he's missing. Because it makes you feel safer. Because in your mind you're like, well, I would never do that. You know, you can extrapolate this. Anne Bremmer, for instance, whenever. Let's just think about Molly Tibbets or Karina. There's so many. When women are out jogging, they get attacked and or murdered. Naysayers say, oh, well, why was she jogging alone? Or why was she jogging at night? Or why was she jogging in a jogging bra? I mean, you can just fill in the blank because it makes you feel better, makes you feel safe because you can say, well, I would never do that. I wonder if people just need somebody to blame. But that's really not helping. Helping the search effort.

[Ann Bremner]

No, but you're so right on, like Shade and Freud and like looking at something like this, like, why do so many people like to, you know, watch and learn about true crime? It's the same thing. I don't want it to happen. To me, that must have been something, must have been a jogging bra. It must have been where they went at night. It must have been, you know, anything that to look at and to blame. And finally, you know, with social media these days, you know, everybody's commenting on all these cases and they're like, oh, well, I figure the parents did it, you know, all the kind of things we never really saw before. When you see everything on Twitter and Facebook and Tick Tock and everything else, these conspiracy theorists and those that want to blame families and blame people involved in a tragedy, let these cases get, you know, investigated. In due course, then we'll know what the real situation.

[Nancy Grace]

There's another issue there, though, Anne Bremner, because Fitzgibbons. Joining me, Brian Fitzgibbons from USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, the statistics, statistics are when a child goes missing or is killed, overwhelmingly it's someone close to the child, the parents, the auntie, the next door neighbor, I'm moving out now, the neighbor, some weird teacher that has a fixation on the child, but typically within the family. So there is that statistic that doesn't make it true here, but that statistic is looming.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

The numbers don't lie about that, Nancy. That is for sure. And in this case it's not, you know, I'll disagree, you know, with the previous comment. You know, this is not a conspiracy. It's not out of the ordinary. You know, this group was isolated camping, so no one else effectively was near, nearby them or knew who this boy was. So for the public to show a tremendous amount of concern that it was the, you know, had something to do with the parents, it doesn't surprise me. I'm not saying that they did. It just does not surprise me.

[Nancy Grace]

Guys, I just want to give you a tip line really quickly. 403-562-2866. Repeat. 403-562-2866. So the search is on.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Initially.

[Narrator / Reporter]

You go from a point last seen and you can expand your radius from there. We rely on our search and rescue experts for that.

[Steven Tipper]

There are two small rivers that are also in play. There's a large bog that we continue.

[Narrator / Reporter]

To search and some fairly steep, rugged, forested terrain.

[Nancy Grace]

From our friends at Global News, straight back out to you, Steven Tipper, what is he describing? A large bog.

[Steven Tipper]

Right. I mean, that was among the bodies of water that were searched more than once during the 11 days that they were looking for Darius. It was, you know, there were extensive resources obviously pulled in, and that was among them, the areas that were searched.

[Nancy Grace]

Dr. Trey Sargent joining us, Ph.D. in psychology, but also previously search rescue recovery expert. My understanding of what a bog is is like a freshwater marsh. It's spongy. Quicksand would be overstating it, but mushy.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Earth.

[Nancy Grace]

Kind of like mud, I would say, with some growth in it, such as reeds or cattails. That's how I picture bog. Very difficult to search in. But also I'm wondering if a little boy like this little boy could get in that and get into the bog and perish in the bog. It's kind of like a soft, spongy accumulation of dirt, clay and plant, right?

[Ann Bremner]

Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

So the bog itself is exactly as you described, Nancy. And looking at the clips of the search area, it's really extremely difficult to find this child in those kind of conditions. And now you add the bombs, the water, and just really extremely extraordinary difficult circumstances. It's really going to take all types of resources to find this child. From dogs to helicopters, searchers, drones, ATVs, evidence and horseback boaters. Every kind of resource is going to be needed to find this child in this extremely difficult search conditions in the terrain that they're working under. Well, the search and rescue volunteers mount to over 400 people. Listen.

[Narrator / Reporter]

More than 400 search and rescue volunteers.

[Nancy Grace]

From 50 teams are to search for Darius.

[Narrator / Reporter]

These volunteers contributed to 11,000 hours of search effort on the ground. They were joined by 60 members of the RCMP Specialized Tactical Support Group that were directly involved in searching for Darius. The search extended up to 12km from.

[Ann Bremner]

Where Darius was last seen.

[Narrator / Reporter]

The distance traveled by ground search assets inside that 22 square kilometers on field tasks was more than 5,300 kilometers. The search extended up to 12 kilometers from where Darius was last seen. The distance traveled by ground search assets inside that 22 square kilometers on field tasks was more than 5,300 kilometers.

[Nancy Grace]

Bridge City News.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Just across the creek, Darius was playing with other children near the campsite, and.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

The adults were keeping a watchful eye.

[Narrator / Reporter]

But in a single fleeting moment of distraction, little Darius vanished.

[Nancy Grace]

Joining me now, crime Stories, investigative reporter on the case, Dave Mack. Dave, let me understand what I'm just hearing. So the little boy Darius is on the other side of a river or a stream playing on an island.

[Straight Arrow News Host]

What?

[Narrator / Reporter]

Yeah, it's NANCY the camping area actually is right on the water, and you're talking about an area that has, it does have creeks and streams and ponds. In this particular case, you've got a creek and it's not a big distance.

[Ann Bremner]

It's right there, maybe 20, 30 yards. Nancy and they can see the children playing on this little island.

[Narrator / Reporter]

And now, as a parent, when your children are with other children, we tend to feel a little bit safer in what's taking place. Goal safety in numbers.

[Ann Bremner]

And while they're packing up, they're all.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Keeping an eye on the children. It's not just one parent's child. It's multiple parents and family members that are watching after these children that are playing in a confined area.

[Ann Bremner]

That's the shocking part of all of.

[Narrator / Reporter]

This, is that they were right there and the children are the ones that.

[Ann Bremner]

Said, we turned our back and he was gone.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Friends and family create a Facebook page bring Darius McDougal home, where the family posts their first message to the public. In the post, they explain arriving at the campsite on Friday with the extended family members to gather and celebrate what they call a few birthdays. As the adults packed to go home, the kids were playing on the island adjacent the camp, just across the creek where the adults could see them. Darius, Kaya and a cousin were walking, playing together with other kids close by. They turned their backs and Darius was gone.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, granted, it doesn't make sense to me. They turn their back and now he's gone. STEVEN TIPPER I'm not saying that's not correct. I'm just trying to understand so I can piece together some semblance of a timeline. Because nobody can just vanish like that. When you turn your back and you turn back around, there had to be some intervening time period, something. What are you learning?

[Steven Tipper]

I mean, there's been little that it's been, you know, given to us by the family other than the public statement that they made this week. You know, and the RCMP said that they were, they received a call at 11:30 on that Sunday morning and, you know, of a missing boy. There's, you know, that's, you know, the, the call came in about after, about an hour after the family had begun their search for Darius.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, Ann Bremmer right there. They waited an hour to call 91 1. I also do not find that disturbing. And I'll tell you why. Unlike a child that goes missing from their own home, when the child is supposed to be asleep and you go in the next morning and they're gone, this is a lot different. Because they're out camping. They started looking for him first, and then when they couldn't find him, they call 91 1. I don't find that unusual. ANN Bremner. Not at all.

[Ann Bremner]

Yeah, I don't either, Nancy. I mean, the fact is, is that they're thinking, well, he's got to be here somewhere. I mean, you know, he was just here with everybody and everyone just fine. And so they. Look, I think an hour is not extreme. I mean, the fact is they might have looked for him for more than an hour, you know, being satisfied they could find him, you know, but that's.

[Nancy Grace]

Not what I do have. Ann. Control, if you could go back to those pictures of the forest where the searchers are gathered. I don't understand looking at this picture.

[Ann Bremner]

How.

[Nancy Grace]

Where he was, he was across from them on an island and. But they could see him. And I have also a problem with the time, not the hour that they searched for him. I get that, but I still am not buying into they. He was there and they turned their back and then he was gone. That's like three seconds. So what really happened? Were they playing hide and go seek? And he was hiding and then he was gone. Just. I'm not. The timeline is concerning to me. Let me look at that. How can you say he was there? I turned my back, I turned around and he was gone. That part's not making sense to me. But let's hear from the mom. As a mother who is very concerned.

[Ann Bremner]

About her son, I'm pleading With my entire being.

[Nancy Grace]

If anyone knows or seen anything, tell the police anything from September 21st till now, when the cruises past air, that can help. Please keep sharing Darius's photo on social media to update so that his beautiful face is out there. We've just exhausted all search tactics. There's just nothing else for us to search at this time. But there is nothing to indicate foul play is involved. Okay, she's saying that Corporal Gina Slaney, she's saying there is nothing to indicate foul play is involved. So then where is he? Guys, that's from our friends at Bridge City News and cbc. Brian, that seems inconsistent to me.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah, that is inconsistent. Right, because if you knew that if you could rule out that there was no foul play, we would either have found Darius or we would have found evidence of what may have transpired.

[Karen Stark]

Right.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

So it's impossible to rule out foul play here, in my opinion.

[Nancy Grace]

How? A little. Yeah. How can he just right off the bat rule out foul play? How did they get to that? Brian?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah, it seems that's kind of a whitewashing statement. There's no way to say that definitively. Right. So I would have to assume, or I'd like to assume, that there is an ongoing investigation here, given that Darius has not been found and no body has been recovered that the police are still interviewing and speaking with the particularly the children that were supposedly on that walk with them.

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[Narrator / Reporter]

But what's happening in America isn't just the cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Straight Arrow News Host]

Straight Arrow News Find facts and context you've been craving. Quickly find trusted information you need to understand the news. Watch what you want when you want. Catch up on the news at home or on the go with your own news queue. Dive deep into the topics that matter to you and the world around you. Navigate everything you need to know about the topics shaping your world. Understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting on a story so you get a full picture of the news. Welcome back to trustworthy journalism. San.com this is Alec Murdoch.

[Narrator / Reporter]

I need police and an ambulance immediately.

[Asma Khalid]

Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast is here. I'm joining Patricia Arquette, Jason Clark and the cast to uncover all things Murdoch family first.

[Nancy Grace]

To unravel the story piece by piece.

[Asma Khalid]

Was really surprising because you don't want to believe it. Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast Wednesdays and stream Murdoch Death in the Family on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers Terms apply.

[Nancy Grace]

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I'm just trying to figure out again regarding this terrain crowd Nest Pass, is it heavily camped? Are there a lot of campers, hikers travelers there? Stephen yes, for sure.

[Steven Tipper]

I mean, there are several campgrounds in the area. I mean, it is a popular spot to go camping in in the Rockies there. And it's. But yeah, yeah, I mean, there are, you know, lots of people enjoy going to that area during the summer and the fall and yeah, so it's, it's a, I mean, it's a picturesque spot, you know, to, to spend a weekend away kind of. So yeah, it's, it's pretty popular.

[Nancy Grace]

Okay, Fitzgibbons, think this through with me for just one moment. We keep referring to this as a remote area, but the town itself itself has about 5,700 in population. But wait for this. According to the atlas, around 300,000 people visit or walking through Crow's Nest every year. Put up this Gibbons, please. So it's not like the family is out there all by themselves, right? You ever heard the name Israel Keys? Is that ringing a bell? He was one of the most prolific serial killers in the US Ever. And he went under the radar. But one place he liked to stalk his victims, national parks, RV camps, people that were camping in tents. He loved it and he spoke of it. And his words were matched up with actual victims that prior to his speaking had been unsolved homicides. So this is like a stalker A predator's happy hunting ground. What do you think about that? 300,000 strangers a year?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Hey, could be. And you know, certainly for transients and, you know, serial killers, folks with nefarious intentions, these places that have very limited control, campgrounds and things like that are hunting grounds for them. So, you know, is there a possibility that Darius was separated from his group and was abducted? Certainly there's enough people there to make that possible. And it's isolated enough to make the search very difficult. So this is really the worst of a lot of potential scenarios here.

[Narrator / Reporter]

The search for Darius includes volunteers and experts alike. Ground personnel were supported by helicopters, drones, dogs, horses, boat mounted sonar, swift water rescue and underwater search teams. It is a massive operation involving multiple agencies. The search and rescue teams covered 13 square miles over rough terrain and found no clothing, no footprints, no signs of Darius were found. Two volunteer teams of cadaver dogs also searched the area and detected no trace of Darius.

[Nancy Grace]

No, no. This is really not fitting together. Now to Dr. Trey Sargent, you don't have a shoe, clothing, a toy, nothing. And cadaver dogs search and don't find anything. What people don't realize, you know, our end goal with all these resources is to find Darius. But what is just as important is using all these resources to eliminate areas to say, you know what, we don't know where Darius is, but we can say definitively he's not here. Which actually helps move the investigation forward and even answer some of those questions that many people have. Yeah, what about it, Fitzgibbons? Not only do they fail to find any trace of him, like a toy, he had a shoe, a sock, clothing, a shirt, they also don't get a hit from any of the cadaver dogs. So where is he? Either he's there hiding, alive.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Well, that's.

[Nancy Grace]

Or he's been completely removed from the area. Or those cadaver dogs would have hit on him even in a bog.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

Yeah, you would think, Nancy. And remember, this is a six year old boy, okay? He's not going to cover that much terrain by foot. And you had police search and rescue groups. There were upwards of 400 individuals involved. By the seventh day of this search, they were in line on a grid search, okay? Shoulder to shoulder. You know, you had helicopters, thermal imaging drones, people on horseback. You had swift teams, boat teams searching riverbeds and where the swift waters were. So there was a very extensive search that took place here. They've, they've narrowed down and said some of these areas he's definitely not in. No sign of him in there. Okay. So now you're thinking, was there animal activity? There is a high bear population here.

[Narrator / Reporter]

What.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

What could happen there? Would we find something? You would still hit with that if.

[Nancy Grace]

That were the case, if a bear or creature had gotten him, we would still have a cadaver dog hit.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

You know, the only thing there is, you know, he could be taken miles and miles away outside of that grid.

[Narrator / Reporter]

That.

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

That would be the only. The only piece there by a creature.

[Nancy Grace]

Because a creature is not going to take a boy miles and miles away. A person would, but not a creature. A creature would stop to eat its victim. Not miles and miles and miles away. It would go back to its lair and eat the victim. At worst, I believe from what I've learned in past cases, that the creature, the imaginary creature, would eat the victim before it got to its lair. A human would absolutely take the child miles and miles away, so.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Correct.

[Nancy Grace]

Where are you going with that?

[Brian Fitzgibbons]

No, I'm saying that, you know, it's conceivable that a bear could carry its victim quite some distance. So there's. There's that. And also, you know, what we brought up before. You know, if there was nefarious play here and there was a human moving him, you know, then that's quite, quite possible.

[Nancy Grace]

Yeah. And if a human moved him, we would get a scent dog hit. Remember when Lacey Peterson was taken? Well, that was her. That was her body. But a cadaver dog followed her scent all the way from her home on Cozina in Modesto all the way to the San Francisco Bay Marina. Okay, so a regular scent dog would have picked up on him. But then there's another shock to the family.

[Narrator / Reporter]

In another shock to the family of Darius. Kaya Warrior, the six year old playing with Darius at the time he went missing, has now passed away at Children's Hospital from a medical emergency. Investigators say her death was not criminal and not related to Darius disappearance. Kyle was the daughter of Dallas McDougal's girlfriend, Buffy. They were on the camping trip with Dallas and Darius and participated in the search.

[Nancy Grace]

Ann Bremner, high profile Seattle defense lawyer. I've said a million times there is no coincidence in criminal law. But we're being told the girlfriend who was on the trip with her boyfriend, Darius's father, when Darius goes missing. Now her child Kaya, also six years old, playing with Darius at the time he goes missing. She's dead.

[Narrator / Reporter]

What?

[Ann Bremner]

No, you're right. There are no coincidences in criminal law. Nancy, you're exactly right. And there's the old saying. Lightning doesn't strike twice. I mean it's when I saw that I thought if I were the prosecutor, I'd be paying a lot more attention to this case.

[Nancy Grace]

The search is still on for six year old Darius. Where is he? There's no sign that he's dead. Hence we are left to believe Darius is alive somewhere. If you know or think you know anything about this child, think of your own children at this tender age. Please dial 400-356-22866. Repeat, 403-562-2866. Now we remember an American hero. Firefighter Isabella Oscarson, Idaho Department Land. Just 26 killed in the line of duty. Leaving behind her grieving parents, Kelvin and Kathleen. American hero, firefighter Isabella Oscarson, Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend.

[Asma Khalid]

America is changing and so is the world.

[Narrator / Reporter]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm a Smah Khalid in Washington D.C.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Hi, I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Narrator / Reporter]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Straight Arrow News Host]

Straight Arrow News Find facts and context you've been craving. Quickly find trusted information you need to understand the news. Watch what you want when you want. Catch up on the news at home or on the Go with your own news. Q. Dive deep into the topics that matter to you and the world around you. Navigate everything you need to know about the topics shaping your world. Understand how every side of the political spectrum is reporting on a story so you get a full picture of the news. Welcome back to trustworthy journalism. San.com this is Alec Murdoch.

[Narrator / Reporter]

I need police and an ambulance immediately.

[Asma Khalid]

Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast is here. I'm joining Patricia Arquette, Jason Clark and the cast to uncover all things Murdoch family first.

[Nancy Grace]

To unravel the story piece by piece.

[Asma Khalid]

Was really surprising because you don't want to believe it. Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast Wednesdays and stream Death in the Family on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[Nancy Grace]

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