Maternal Instinct

Summary

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Crime Writers On... | "Maternal Instinct" (June 29, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Crime Writers On panel—true crime authors Rebecca Lavoie and Kevin Flynn, novelist Toby Ball, and journalist/pet detective Lara Bricker—review the Netflix documentary Maternal Instinct. The film investigates the shocking story of Taylor Parker, a Texas woman who faked a pregnancy and ultimately committed a horrifying crime. The panel dissects the narrative, structure, and approach of the documentary, delves into the personalities involved, and candidly discuss the storytelling choices and psychological aspects left unexamined.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Impressions and Documentary Structure

• Opening Impact
  • The documentary opens with real police bodycam footage: Taylor Parker is pulled over, claiming to have just given birth en route to the hospital. The baby is present, umbilical cord attached. This grabs the viewers’ attention immediately.
    • Kevin Flynn (08:21):

      "It drew me in, it raised a bunch of questions and you kind of got an idea of, you know, what the stakes were."

  • The panel notes that starting "in media res" (dropping straight into action) is now a true crime doc formula.
    • Toby Ball (09:20):

      "It just feels like we see a lot of these now. So as soon as it started that way, I was like, all right, it's gonna be one of those documentaries."

2. The Wildness of the Case

• The sheer outlandishness of Taylor Parker’s scheme is a primary factor in the film’s gripping quality.
  • Lara Bricker (07:13):

    "It's like watching a car crash that you can't turn away from... It's so shocking and unbelievable that you literally, you just keep watching, like rubbernecking on the highway."

• The Texas setting adds a layer of "only in Texas" pop-culture flavor, referenced humorously but also as a context for the crime's social backdrop.

3. Taylor Parker’s Cons & Psychology

• Parker constructed an elaborate façade: fake pregnancy belly, social posts, medical visit fakes, gender reveal party—all for months after her hysterectomy.
• Her earlier scams revolved around impersonating wealth (cars, houses bought on bogus loans, never paid for).
  • Rebecca (13:07):

    "It's like the least pyramid scheme I've ever seen—it's like an upside-down pyramid."

• The panel is puzzled by Parker’s lack of any exit strategy or awareness of the obvious expiration date on her lies.
  • Toby Ball (15:32):

    "You gotta know on some level that you got to get out of this plan before it ends or just move to another state or something. And she doesn't do that."

• The panel connects this story to other true crime cases involving pregnancy fraud or cons, highlighting a recurring pathology among similar offenders—often enabled by the isolation of COVID.
  • Kevin Flynn (19:33):

    "They both were obsessed with social media and posting... and they needed to find an end game to their lies... like, you have to, you gotta put up or show up at some point."

4. Reaction of the Community and Bystander Effect

• Even as her scams escalated, acquaintances and even intimates chose not to confront her, rationalizing it as not wanting to "make things worse."
  • Rebecca (29:04):

    "It's a frightening Rubicon to cross. Some people, when you confront them, you know it's going to get a million times worse."

• The gender reveal party scene is highlighted for its awkwardness—everyone present suspects the pregnancy is fake, but no one speaks up.
• The discussion turns to social dynamics and the limits of communal intervention.

5. The Role (and Absence) of Psychological Analysis

• The documentary is notably incurious about Parker’s psyche; no expert commentary is included, despite trial records showing extensive mental health evaluations.
  • Lara Bricker (36:01) summarizes trial testimony:
    • Parker exhibited "traits associated with multiple personality disorders, but didn't meet the full criteria... significant psychopathic traits, including pathological lying, manipulation, and lack of empathy... abnormalities in her brain structure... [but] it didn't rise to the level of a psychiatric diagnosis."
  • The ambiguity and limitations of psychological diagnosis in courtroom settings are discussed.
    • Toby Ball (37:58):

      "It's kind of an art... you're taking a look at behaviors and... seeing how do they conform to the description for this malady or not."

• The absence of a clear diagnosis underscores the documentary’s focus on events, not motivations, which some panelists find lacking.

6. The Victim’s Absence

• Reagan Hancock, the murder victim, is largely sidelined in the documentary, and thus in the panel’s discussion as well.
  • Kevin Flynn (40:39):

    "The fact that we haven't even touched on it... shows to me how little a part of the actual story she was, I mean, somewhat invisible... it makes for a big reveal... but... she wasn't a presence in the storytelling."

• The panel debates the documentary’s choice to treat Reagan’s story almost as an afterthought, focusing instead on the spectacle of Parker’s unraveling.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rebecca (07:13):

  "It's like a car crash you can't turn away from."

• Toby Ball (17:18):

  "If there isn't a thought process behind this, like, that in itself is kind of interesting, but they don't... delve into her psychology."

• Lara Bricker (36:01):

  "All of [the experts] stopped short of diagnosing a major mental illness... concluded she exhibited significant psychopathic traits, including pathological lying, manipulation, and lack of empathy."

• Kevin Flynn (40:39):

  "The victim—Reagan Hancock... is almost invisible."

• Rebecca (52:19):

  "I've been talking about it with people afterward as a conversation starter... I've been thinking about it, like, what the hell?"

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:08 – Episode and panel introductions
• 05:13 – Introduction to the Taylor Parker case; summary of the documentary
• 07:13 – Initial reactions: the story’s wildness and “can’t look away” quality
• 08:21 – Discussion on the documentary’s opening and storytelling structure
• 13:07 – Parker’s earlier scams: fake wealth, community's response
• 15:32 – Panel ponders Parker’s lack of a plausible endgame
• 19:33 – Comparison to other pregnancy fraud/con cases
• 28:10 – “Landmark” pregnancy moments: the fake gender reveal party and social awkwardness
• 29:04 – Why no one intervened: communal reluctance and fear
• 36:01 – Expert trial testimony on Parker’s psychology; what the doc leaves out
• 40:39 – The victim’s minimal presence in the narrative
• 47:01 – Thumbs up/down final reviews
• 53:19 – Crime of the Week: Ferris wheel scandal (light segment)

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Panel Verdicts

• Laura Bricker (47:01):
  Mild thumbs up. Wild, compelling, straightforward retelling, but wishes for more psychological context.

• Toby Ball (48:15):
  Thumb sideways. Formulaic, competently made, wild story, but impersonal and lacking in insight into Parker.

• Kevin Flynn (50:13):
  Thumb sideways. Compelling, but not enough context or depth—especially psychologically.

• Rebecca Lavoie (51:50):
  Thumbs up. Riveting, restrained, and thought-provoking despite lack of psychological exploration.

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Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, irreverent, and honest, typical of the podcast’s style. The panel frequently highlights the absurdity or darkness of the material using gallows humor, but also expresses empathy for the story’s real-life consequences. There are candid admissions of confusion or discomfort, balanced by insightful media criticism and personal anecdotes.

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Conclusion

The panel agrees that Maternal Instinct is a gripping story delivered through familiar documentary conventions—ultimately compelling mostly because of the bizarre crime itself, not because of innovative filmmaking or profound insight. The film’s restraint is praised, but its lack of psychological deep-dives or focus on the victim is seen as a missed opportunity. Despite this, most panelists found it worth watching—if only for the sheer “car crash” fascination with one of the strangest crimes in recent memory.

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Transcript

[A]

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[C]

writers on after show right now, go to patreon.com partnersincrimemedia I'm Rebecca LaVoy and

[B]

this is Crime Writers on. Crime Writers on is the original true Crime review podcast that digs into true crime, pop culture, other podcasts, and on this episode, when a mother and her newborn arrive at a hospital, doctors determined the woman was never pregnant. So where did the baby come from? We'll talk about the Netflix documentary film Maternal Instinct. Joining me to get that done and more is true crime author, TV journalist and host of these Are Their Stories podcast, My husband and the love of my life, the birthday boy. It's Kevin Flynn. Hello, Kevin.

[C]

Hello, Rebecca. Thanks.

[B]

Happy birthday.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[B]

I love you.

[C]

I love you too. Are you gonna give me a pinch to grow an inch? No. Remember your kids and they say, here's a pinch to grow an inch.

[B]

That's mean.

[C]

It was kind of mean. Y of abusive.

[B]

Yeah. And also with us is private investigator, certified pet detective, resident cat lady, and author of the Final Curtain. It's Laura Bricker. Hello, Laura.

[A]

Hey, Rebecca.

[B]

And finally, our captain of all things cynical, author of the City trilogy, host of Rip Current more like Ancient Strange Arrivals, and our Patreon Deep Dive book club podcast, Toby Ball. Hola, Toby.

[D]

Hey, Rebecca. Happy birthday, Kevin.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Kevin, how old are you?

[C]

Not very old.

[B]

Okay, what's coming up on Thursday's show?

[C]

So on Thursday, we're gonna talk about the newest podcast from Leon Nayfak on Audible Originals. It's called Only Fantasy. All one word.

[B]

Only Fantasy. Well, Toby, right before we started taping the show, you said, and I quote, I did something wild last night. And I said, save it for the podcast. So, Toby, what was that wild thing you did?

[D]

So, in Valencia, there are, like a hell of a lot of sort of celebrations for different things. And last night, I think, was the feast of St. John, which I think might be spelled J O A N, but I don't know. This is all a little unclear to me what was going on. But we went down to. There's, you know, Valencia's got a big, you know, urban beach. And so we went down there, and there are literally tens of thousands of people on the beach. So we went down there. It's at night. So we went down there around 9 o'. Clock. You know, it's still fairly light out.

[C]

And.

[D]

And so the deal is, is that all these people go down the beach, they set up bonfires, and the. The city, like, brings in truckloads full of wood. And then you just show up to this place. Like, people had already done it before I got there, but you show up to this place and you, like, stuff a bunch of wood into bags or a cart or whatever, and you take it to your spot on the beach and you use that for the bonfire. So we're there. There were so many people, and this is a huge. Tens of thousands of people. And the deal is that everybody kind of hangs out and does their thing. A lot of drinking, a lot of people cooking over open fires, a lot of tunes, people of all ages. And then at midnight, you're supposed to, like, jump one of the bonfires. They're not huge bonfires, so it's not quite as impressive as it sounds. You're supposed to write something on a piece of paper that you want to get rid of from the previous year and throw it into the fire to get rid of, like, a witch. And then you go. Exactly. And then everybody goes into the Mediterranean and you have to jump over seven waves as some kind of, like, purification thing. So you like. We went out and there's like thousands and thousands of people, like, in the. Oh, it's just like this mass of people just like jumping over these little waves in the Mediterranean.

[B]

It does sound like sunset cocktails in Widow's Bay.

[A]

I was like. To jump over a bonfire. That means I have to go to Valencia next June.

[D]

You should come to Valencia. Although it is absolutely freaking so hot outside. Europe is burning like Paris, I think, was like, 108 yesterday.

[B]

Yeah, well, Speaking of hot, should we talk about the documentary we're here to talk about? Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's hot. It's like number one on Netflix as we tape this. Right?

[A]

That pregnancy suit's gotta be hot.

[B]

Hot.

[D]

It's number two in Spain, baby.

[C]

Leading off, I need live net out to my location.

[B]

Lady in this vehicle who appeared to

[D]

just have a bab.

[C]

She was carrying the baby in her lap.

[D]

Umbilical cord is still attached.

[C]

She's not breathing.

[B]

When a Texas trooper pulled her over, Taylor Parker said she was rushing to the hospital doing CPR on the newborn baby she just gave birth to in her car. But when doctors examined her, they realized she'd never been pregnant. She's in there. She refuses to have a vaginal check to make sure she's not hemorrhaging. They've done an ultrasound and hcg and it doesn't show that she's been pregnant. They have the placenta.

[D]

Where is she?

[B]

She is in the room.

[A]

She's not letting her leave.

[C]

No.

[B]

For months, Parker had told everyone she was carrying her boyfriend's baby. Posing on social media with a pregnant belly. But friends knew she'd had a hysterectomy years before. Then, as her purported due date arrived miles away, police made a gruesome discovery. As I get out of my car, I'm walking and I see these little red streaks.

[A]

And I thought, oh, well, the dog

[B]

must have heard its spirit foot.

[A]

And so that's what I was seeing.

[B]

And I kind of opened the door and I saw a bloody footprint. The Netflix documentary Maternal Instinct recounts the 2020 story of Taylor Parker and how her efforts to fake a pregnancy resulted in a tragic conclusion. The film uses body worn camera footage, digital evidence, and interviews with Parker's boyfriend and others to piece together her elaborate scheme and the lengths she went to to resolve it. Spoiler alert. We're gonna be talking about plot points from Maternal Instinct. So if you wanna remain spoiler free, go to the estimated timecode in our show notes for our thumbs up or thumbs down reviews. So, Lara, I did put a note in our Team Slack as. I was watching this and I was like, I can't tell if this is good or if the story is just completely wild. What do you think? It's pretty wild, eh?

[A]

It's like watching a car crash that you can't turn away from. At the same time that you had texted that in our chat, my friend Maggie texted me and she said, maternal Instinct is horrible and crazy. This was just like something that was so. I don't know if this was a good story. I don't know if I would describe it like that. However, it was so shocking and unbelievable that it was one of those things that you literally, you just keep watching, like rubbernecking on the highway, like, I can't believe this. I can't believe this. Oh, my God. Oh. Oh, wow. Okay, that's. Oh, that's a real baby. Oh, that's not. Oh, oh, oh. E. Yeah. And like, of course it's Texas. It's usually Texas or Florida. And I'm like, I think this sort of fits within that Texas genre of crimes. You know, where's. Where's the Texas Monthly? Like, this feels like prime for that.

[B]

Kevin, the opening of the documentary is pretty dramatic. It does use that body worn camera footage. We see the police approaching Taylor in her car. She says she's rushing to the hospital because she's just given birth. As I said in the intro. What did you think about this opening? Compelling or not?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I like the opening sequence. I didn't know anything about this crime. That all would have been spoiled for me if I knew everything about it, obviously. But I thought it was, you know, the logical place to start the whole documentary right there. It drew me in, it raised a bunch of questions and you kind of got an idea of, you know, what the stakes were. And they continued this sort of this sequence all the way through the examination in the hospital.

[B]

So it surely doesn't look like a baby came out of there. It looks like she had a baby. It doesn't.

[A]

No. Okay.

[B]

Does not look like she had a baby.

[C]

Now you're like, okay, well how did we get here? And so I thought it was a good jumping off point as opposed to maybe going chronological. So that's, I mean, if you're writing the book, that's exactly where you would start with chapter one.

[B]

Drop you in media res, as it's called. Right? Media res Media. And you just like. And then you go back to spool it back to the beginning.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Toby, I don't think you had the same reaction to the opening sequence of this document documentary, did you?

[D]

Well, it just feels like we see a lot of these now. So as soon as it started that way, I was like, all right, it's gonna be one of those documentaries. And it was. I mean, you know, I feel like they figured out how to make smooth easy to follow documentaries and there's like a formula to it and they kind of rise and fall on how compelling you find the story and, you know, how Compelling the talking heads are that they can get on camera, but the expectation was set. And that's not necessarily like a super high expectation, but it's. But it kind of. I was like, all right, I can kind of see how this one's gonna feel when you watch it. It's just a matter of what the details are gonna be.

[B]

Yeah, but, Toby, you have to admit there are some real characters in this, like the people that we meet, people that we talk to. It's definitely. There's like a slice of life component to this that I wasn't expecting. What'd you think about that?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not necessarily saying that it was bad. There's a variety of people they talk to, and some of whom are pretty colorful, some of whom are less so, but are sort of more intimately involved in the actual story. And then there's a whole bunch of people who. I'd say a whole bunch. Probably like four or five.

[B]

That's a bunch.

[D]

Yeah. Okay. And who were close to Taylor at some point in her life and. And seem to be using this as a way of getting as far away from her as they possibly can in the public eye. So, you know, there was. And we can talk about. Talk about Wade Partner later. But it did kind of feel like more than a lot of other. These documentaries that there was a. You know, you could kind of. I felt like. I could kind of feel like what the objective was for some of the. Some of the interviewees and what they were trying to get out of. And it was basically like, I liked her when she was different. You know, she was really different. She was really. Her smile lit up her room when I was around her. But then something changed. Then we weren't friends anymore.

[B]

So, Lara, after the scene in the car, in the sequence that is real life, not in the documentary, because it kind of rolls back. After the scene in the car, we see Taylor goes to the hospital. And the doctor is very casually, like, yeah, she's never had a baby. She didn't have this baby. He was so casual. What did you think, how they sort of dealt with this at the hospital?

[A]

I loved that we saw that twice in this documentary. So we saw the first pass when we see her in the car, and she's shaking and she's talking about how she just had a baby. And then you see the troopers and, you know, the police sitting down talking to her, and the doctor goes in and out. But then later, when we've heard the backstory about her not being pregnant, you see additional Information before you see the troopers, go sit down and speak with her. So you know that when they talk to her, they already knew the backstory of her not being pregnant. And I think it was really interesting to see that particular scene play out twice with additional information the second time, not as much information the first time. So you're kind of like, guessing, look, I wonder what's really going on here. I wonder what's happening. But the fact that in the beginning, you're like, she's never had a baby. You're like, okay, is this one of those crazy things where somebody cut a baby out of somebody? Unfortunately, we find out, yes. But you're like, like. And then when she. When she came out of the car, too, you're like, there's no blood. Like, there's. This doesn't add up. There's no. You're not seeing signs on her of somebody that literally just delivered a baby in a car to the extent that I. I would expect you would see.

[B]

Yeah, I expect when you open the door, like, a pool of blood would fall out with.

[A]

You had a baby on her pajama pants or something.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. So, Kevin, before the baby delusion, there was this weird thing where this woman basically just pretended to be rich, kept getting loans, and kept buying things with no way to pay for them. It's like. It's like the least pyramid. Pyramid scheme I've ever seen. It's like an upside down pyramid.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, she passed herself off as somebody who was going to be coming into money and then sort of did things. I mean, we've seen this in kind of other scams where the basically, you know, kiting. Well, I'm gonna say kiting checks, but kiting, like, big sums of money. We're like, oh, we're buying this whole piece of property, and here I bought you a new car until it gets repossessed. And you know, when that happens in real life, all these people are like, you know, that just didn't seem right. And then that's it.

[A]

It made me sick. It made me so sick to my stomach because I knew, I mean, that she can't be pregnant. She had a hysterectomy.

[C]

It's like, well, we didn't confront her about the fact that she bought a car. And then for me, and then it got repossessed. It was just sort of, hey, we're gonna go along with it. There was sort of a lot of that.

[B]

That's how she's always been where there were people.

[C]

And again, I don't know, because this was almost six years ago, whether or not they're shaving off the rough edges. But there was a lot of like. Yeah, that didn't quite seem right. And then no, up to the idea that maybe you could have done something more than send an anonymous note to Wade about her pregnancy when you know for a fact she had a hysterectomy.

[B]

Yeah. Toby, what do you think about this idea? Because the kinds of things that this woman did always had like a deadline on them. Like you can't buy a car and then just not pay for it and think no one's gonna find out that you didn't. You can't pay for it. And you certainly can't fake a pregnancy. I mean, how many weeks did she go beyond the alleged due date? Like six weeks or something. I know there's a pathology here that the documentary doesn't get into, but what do you think of this? Because I just keep thinking, like, what is the plan? Like, this is somebody who doesn't seem. I mean, she's smart enough to be able to maintain relationships and like, be in the world, but you got to know on some level that you got to get out of this plan before it ends or just move to another state or something. And she doesn't do that.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

So this. I'm trying to think. I don't know if we watched or whether it was just stuff that we did on the deep dive, but there are a couple of things on the deep dive where people were running. They weren't even like, cons. It's like this one guy said that he was working a job and he didn't for like 15 years or something. And it's like there's a point, there's like an end point to this. Like, you cannot keep like for the rest of your life pretending you you've got a job because you're not bringing in any money. And it seemed like the same thing for this. It's like it's not a well planned con. Like, it's. You don't. They don't really don't spend much time, like, trying to delve into her psychology beyond. She would kind of see people in certain situations and want to have that certain situation herself. And that's like the, the biggest sort of, sort of bit of insight I think you get. And that her, I guess one of her friends had ended up who wasn't supposed to be able to be pregnant again, gets pregnant with a girl and, and, and Taylor decides she's gonna be pregnant with A girl, even though she's had a hysterectomy. Yeah. So it was just a little. It would have been a little bit interesting to have a little bit about, like, is she just literally just one of those people who lives, like, moment to moment, and it's just like, I'm gonna do something, and the consequences are down the road. I'm just not gonna deal with it until then. Because she wasn't going. She wasn't. She wasn't being conservative about it. She was like, I'm getting $8 million and I'm about to spend it all on trucks and a ranch and I've got a baby, and, you know, all this stuff, like, all at once, and it's like, none of this is gonna work. Like, literally nothing is gonna work in any of this. I mean, to me, that was sort of the. The sort of, like, most morbidly interesting part of it, I guess, was just like.

[B]

Agreed.

[D]

Trying to like, figure out, like, what did she think is, you know, what. What's the thought process behind this? And if there isn't a thought process behind this, like, that in itself is kind of interesting, but they don't. I mean, it's just kind of like you just. It's. It really is a sort of just the facts kind of thing, but it's the facts from certain people's viewpoints, and then there's also, like, the sort of undisputable facts of the actual crime. But, like, that was. Those are the interesting questions to me. And. And it didn't seem to be something that the. The filmmakers were interested in the slightest.

[B]

What was that thing that we covered where that woman, she reminded me so much of that woman in California who. In the church who was faking her cancer scamander. And she used, like, her. Her. You know, she'd go to pray, she'd be in the hospital, and her husband would go to her appointments, and, like, none of the doctors were asking her about her cancer or whatever. It's like, what did she think? How did she think she was possibly going to get away with this? But it reminded me of that because she never died, Right. She's like, she's going to die next week, and she never died, so it's like an expiration date con, like, never works.

[C]

There's no exit strategy. No, from that one. Yeah. No, I mean, the one that this reminds me of is this horrible podcast, the Unborn, and I can't believe I'm ever bringing it up again in any sort of critical way. Well, the COVID Was horrible. Yes, but the whole story was. I mean, the underlying crime here was interesting, but, you know, not in the way it was presented, but it also has to do with somebody faking a pregnancy. What was really interesting is she started having, like, those. Like, the actual physical side. She didn't buy a rubber belly like this woman did. But there, in both cases, you've got somebody here who's, like, just deeply ill. And unfortunately, you know, the documentary doesn't even try to bring up somebody to talk about it. But there are a lot of parallels between those two cases. Her name was Christy in the unborn, but, I mean, there was the whole thing. Like, both these cases happened during COVID They had the advantage of certain people not being allowed into the hospital. It's like, oh, I can only go

[B]

to the doctor by myself kind of thing.

[C]

Right, right. And whether or not that was accurate or not, you could say that, and somebody would. Would believe it, but there was the whole thing, and they just kind of breezed over the fact that Wade's house got caught on fire and there was a bomb threat at the hospital. Well, the same. The house got set on fire in the unborn, too. Right.

[B]

I remember that.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, so they both were. Both were obsessed with social media and posting and whatever, and they needed to find an end game to their lies. You're right. I mean, this, you know, it isn't talented, Mr. Ripley. Like, you have to. You gotta put up her show up at some point. And Christie was stalking maternity wards. Right. And it was implied that she would steal a baby if she had the opportunity. But if she were in proximity to another pregnant mother, would Christy have turned violent? Would Taylor have snatched a baby from the maternity ward if she had access to that? I mean, she absolutely would have a

[B]

car, someone left their baby unattended, or a stroller.

[C]

I mean, what is she. Yeah, I mean, she's buying type, you know, she's like, I'm in my 10th month of pregnancy. She, at some point, she had to do something. And, you know, so it's just. It's unfortunate that, like, the documentary had these things, but I don't know, for whatever reason, it didn't go into, you know, a real deep dive. But if you want a deep dive like Toby Ball's Deep Dive Book Club podcast, you got to join us on Patreon.

[B]

It's the business section. We're pregnant with business.

[C]

We are pregnant. We are ready to deliver. We are fully dilated to get you exclusive content at Patreon.

[B]

What what's the after content? After the content.

[C]

Oh, my God. The after show.

[B]

The after show comes after the content. Just like what happens after the birth.

[D]

The content. Water is about to break.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

I have to deliver the content. Yes, afterwards. Yeah. Okay, remember, this comes out at breakfast time. Oh, you can get the crime writers on after show. On this after show, Rebecca's talking about her trip to Chicago with her mother.

[B]

83.

[C]

83. Took her there for a purpose. Which was to just take her on a trip. Yes, to teach her a lesson. Toby Balls Deep Dive. Yeah, I don't mean like, I'm gonna teach you a lesson. Give me the belt.

[B]

I'm teach you a lesson. Like, actually teach you something.

[C]

Yes, I'm teach you something. That it's okay to go to places.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Toby Ball's Deep Dive Book Club podcast is discussing the other side of prospect with a great panel. Married with podcast or advice podcast. Among the questions, someone wants to gently extract herself from a longtime friendship that has changed. You also get somethings off Rebecca and Mel's true crime podcast. Man, those civil trials for the house defendants, they keep.

[B]

They're getting spicy. Proctor is getting spicy.

[C]

If you join us at the Bricker skill level, you'll also get Lars Leave it to Bricker podcast. All Laura wants is for the front door to her condo to get fixed, but she can't do that without wading into a whole bunch of shady shit scandal.

[A]

Well, I am going back in after this taping to my second condo board meeting, and I am ready. And I have a list of talking points, so follow along because I have come up with an elaborate scheme to get an additional room in my house based on their most recent email to me.

[B]

And we won't be able to do anything about it.

[C]

Get an additional room.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Oh, my goodness gracious.

[A]

Just stay tuned. Just stay tuned. They told me I'm solely responsible for my sun porch. I just have to follow local building codes that I can do, and I'm like, perfect. I can insulate it, take the wall out between there and my living room, and I can have a bonus room. You can. It's a lovely living room.

[C]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, well, you'll get to see. That's going to be part two of an upcoming episode, I hope.

[A]

Yes. Oh, I'm gonna follow this condo thing. I am following it to the bitter

[C]

end because the last Leave it to Bricker actually had a cliffhanger.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

When we found out there might be a mole. I'm just gonna leave it at that. If you also Support us at the deep diver level. You'll get to be there when Toby and his guests discuss the next book. Toby, on the next show you have Maggie Freeling, Sarah Killeen, and Samantha Axtell Przyzbilowitz. And the four of you are talking about what book?

[D]

We're talking about Murderland, which I, you know, in the last couple years, I think it's been the most talked about true crime book out there. And it is super weird. It's just a very strange book. But I think it'll be a good conversation. I'm really interested to hear what other people think about it because.

[B]

Is that like the sequel to Candyland, Murderland?

[D]

It is a little bit, yeah. It's like the Lollipop swamp and stuff. No, it's about how they, how all these, these smelters that were around the country, but particularly in the Pacific Northwest, cause an increase in violence. And in the Pacific Northwest, specifically, all these serial killers that came out of sort of the Spokane area.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Interesting. Interesting. You get all of those podcasts when you join us at Patreon. I'm just going to make a pitch for the value here. In June, we had 24 episodes.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

On Patreon. So you are getting an awful lot for the money that you spend. It goes to a great cause. It supports this podcast. It keeps us on the air and keeps us going. So thank you to everybody who has joined us there and become patrons.

[B]

All right, Kevin does. Thus end our business section.

[C]

Thus ends the business section.

[B]

Before Legally Blonde, before law school, Elle woods was in high school. Set in 1995. This year, Gemini Vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle and turns her world upside down. Watch Elle navigate a new city, a new school, frenemies and crushes, all while staying true to herself. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of Legally Blonde, watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video July 1st.

[D]

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[B]

sponsor of this fine podcast?

[C]

Oh, we're sponsored by Quint.

[B]

Shut up.

[C]

Yeah. Summer is the perfect time to rethink the clothes that you've been reaching for every day. Take all those clothes that you bought from Quince in the winter, all those nice sweaters. You put them to one side of the closet or in a different drawer and you bring out all of last year's linens. Get the new ones to add to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Rebecca, what have you recently purchased? Quints?

[B]

Well, you know, I love a linen shirt.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And I have a couple of Quint's linen shirts. The European linen. I love the dark blue with the white stripes and is my favorite one. I have a white one. I've got a pink one. I've got a solid blue one. They are the most versatile, cute shirts. I wear it over a bathing suit. I wear it out to dinner. We were on vacation, remember? I wore a linen shirt every day.

[C]

Yes. Yes. And in fact, for that vacation, you purchased me two pairs of swimming trunks.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Bathing suit. Whatever you call it.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

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[B]

Laura, I wanna talk to you about a couple of the landmark moments during this pregnancy. One is the gender reveal party.

[A]

Yes, that was.

[C]

That was something that's invisible. Smoke.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With the gender reveal party coming around the side of their home with a little cow and her children from her last relationship, and a little bow around the cow to reveal the sex of the baby. And I thought what was interesting was then hearing from people that were there that were just kind of all like, nobody really knew what to do.

[B]

Right.

[C]

The day of the junior reveal was

[A]

very awkward, but she seemed really excited. She kind of, like, started screaming and jumping up and, like, clapping, and it

[C]

was kind of quiet.

[A]

Why didn't anybody speak up in a. In a more direct fashion about this? Because this was ludicrous. This was ridiculous.

[B]

I have thoughts about that because I know somebody who is displaying a lot of signs of, like, mental health stuff, and I am not going to fucking say anything to anybody because it's like, it's a frightening Rubicon to cross. Because some people, when you confront them, you know it's going to get a million times worse. Like, you're going to make it. Like, they're going to make it worse. They're going to make. It's going to become, like, histrionic or something. And it's just like, I'm going to let someone else dude this. Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

There was a lot of that, though. That's the thing that's wild about this, is there were so many people, like, write down. I thought it was in the beginning of this. I don't know if anyone else was like, right down to the hospital staff, and I'm like, how are they talking with HIPAA and privacy laws? I'm like, oh, probably because this has already gone to court. So this was in court. And so they can now talk about it because it was already public, but

[B]

they couldn't talk about it at the time.

[A]

They couldn't. And they're all just watching and they're all sitting there. And then when that woman, that one wife who's like the undercover spy for the best friend of Wade, and she calls and they're just like, there is something, but we cannot say. It's like the brown bird flies upside down at midnight, Wink, wink, nod, nod. But nobody can say.

[B]

Right, right. It was pretty wild. I mean, the thing that really struck me about this is there is what I'm seeing more sort of in pop culture. And maybe it's just because Netflix and other networks are sort of fishing in new waters for documentaries is there's this desperation to. With these. Whatever this kind of psychology is. And you know what? I don't blame a psychologist for not being on this, because you can't diagnose somebody you've met, right? That's a big problem. Well, but they can talk about past people that they have.

[A]

Can we come back to that?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But there is this, like, weird thing around this pathology, which is like, I have a compulsion and an impulse to be middle class, to look normal, to have the things that other people have. It's not like they have an impulse and a compulsion to, like, live on a yacht in the Caribbean. Like the Tinder swindler, dude. Like, they just want to look and be like everybody else, and they clearly can't be. So they go through these hoops, and she literally, Toby seems to me, didn't fall in love with Wade. She's like, he seems normal. People think he's normal. How about him? Like, the Wade factor was very strange to me. What do you think, Toby?

[D]

Yeah, you don't really get much of a sense of things because, again, I feel like Wade is really spending this entire documentary trying to distance himself from Taylor and making it seem like he was never quite into it. And, you know, at the end, he's like, I never told her I loved her. I'm like, all right, dude, whatever. The whole point behind it all, I really don't know. But I guess she was hoping one day I'd finally. I'd finally tell her, you know, that I loved her.

[A]

But I never.

[B]

I never did.

[D]

Everybody else who talks about it was like, you were always defending her. You know, you're like, anytime something would come up and be like, oh, Taylor. Be like, oh, that's my mom. My mom hired these people to do this, or, my mom did this or my mom did that. And. And Wade's, like, repeating the same thing to his mom and, like, his friends, I guess. So again, it's like, well, did you really. I mean, it seems like you were kind of in her corner.

[C]

Well, she was paying the bills or not.

[D]

Like, it's hard to really kind of figure out what her motivations were because they just don't look into it at all. But, I mean, I think what you're saying makes sense in that she's like, oh, here's a guy who seems, like, in our community to have decently high stat. He's a rodeo guy. And, you know, he's got a respected family and stuff. And he. He lives close to me, but not so close that he's going to know my friends or that I had a hysterectomy. So I guess I'll glom on to him. The whole thing is kind of weird. I Mean, it's just not explained. If there was something there, it's not explained. And it kind of leaves you to, like, kind of speculate about what's. What's the nature of the whole thing. And then Wade is clearly sort of obfuscating the whole time. I guess you can't really blame him. But he's trying to reclaim his life since somebody wants to be around him because they think he enabled Taylor to, like, go down this freaking rabbit hole that ended up with this horrible murder.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I don't want people to see as dumb as I see me as. As dumb as I am kind of situation.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. But the thing that both Lara and Rebecca were talking about is like, I don't think that she actually had friends. I don't think she had the kind of friends that like, you guys have. That if you were pulling this shit and telling everybody, oh, yeah, now I'm pregnant after, you know, at 53. Yeah.

[A]

That I've been on hormone replacement therapy. I'll be like, what?

[B]

Wow.

[C]

You know, that someone would say, you know, what the fuck are you doing? Or have actually, like, deep concern because it sounded like the people that they talked to that knew that, like, that was. That was not right. Just considered it, her being shady. Right. Did not identify it at all as a potential mental illness. Right. It just is just more like, yeah, she's a bad person now. You know, looking back and you find out like, she's a fucking murderer or two, it can be hard to sort of drum up support for that person that was in your life that is on death row now.

[B]

Brutal murderer.

[C]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

An intimate brutal murderer with her bare hands.

[D]

It's Manson stuff. I mean, it's exactly Charles Manson stuff.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I. You know, again, but to the idea of that while you're going to a gender reveal party that you know in your heart, you know for a fact is fucking bullshit, and you just go and eat the cake.

[B]

Cake is good.

[C]

Cake is good.

[B]

Everyone loves a sheet cake.

[C]

Yeah. You're just like, well, let's see if it's pink inside. Fantastic.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Perfect. You know, so maybe they were enjoying

[B]

watching the train wreck as well, you know?

[A]

Well, do you. Could you ever imagine, though, that somebody would go to that level? No. I mean, that's the thing is you're watching this, you're like, yeah, she's a nut.

[C]

But, you know, I can't listen to the Unborn podcast.

[B]

Were they going for him or were they going to watch what would happen? Like, we don't really get sort of what's driving any of these people in this, right, Lara?

[A]

Yeah, no, I. And I think I honestly, this was an. Like this, like we talked about in the beginning. Like, you. You just telling the story of this case is wild because of everything that happened. It's like, oh, my God, now this is happening. That's happening. But I think, you know, given the fact that some time has passed, given the fact that she's gone to trial, I was like, what's the psychology of Taylor? Like, what is the little bit, like, let's peel off a layer here and figure out what the hell is going on with her. Like, where is the psychological analysis? Is she just.

[B]

Didn't it come up at court? And they hired. They must have hired an expert. Right?

[A]

That's the thing is because I'm like, is she a con artist? Is she a pathological liar? Is she just extremely mentally ill? Well, guess what? She was evaluated by multiple people. And so that's the part I'm like, I feel like that could have been included in there.

[B]

What did they say, Laura? What did they say?

[A]

This is what's interesting. This is what they said. All of them stopped short of diagnosing a major mental illness. And one testified that she displayed traits associated with multiple personality disorders, but didn't meet the full criteria for borderline personality. Narcissistic personality, antisocial personality. Another one said he found no evidence of a major mental illness, but concluded she exhibited significant psychopathic traits, including pathological lying, manipulation, and lack of empathy. Wow. And then additional testimony, neurologist and psychologist testimony, described abnormalities in her brain structure. So her frontal and temporal lobes, they could have affected her judgment and impulse control, but it didn't rise to the level of a psychiatric diagnosis. So I think what's interesting about this case that I wish is that nobody could agree on what the heck was going on with her. And I think the pregnancy faking is in itself, like, what's going on here. You know, she's wearing the fake belly, she's got the fake records, she's having the gender reveal. She's, you know, posting it on Facebook. But then it doesn't really explain anything deeper in this documentary, at least about, like, what could have created this in her background. Like, to see somebody go to this level, you're like, what the hell is going on?

[B]

Was she dropped as a baby?

[A]

Yeah, like, what the hell happened? Background to lead them, you know, like, she's obviously got this sort of sense of entitlement that goes along with the lack of empathy the manipulation, the deceit. But nobody can really explain at her trial what was happening. And I think that in itself is a very interesting thing.

[B]

And they never said that. I would have loved to have known that in the documentary. Yeah, that would have been interesting. Toby, you made all kinds of faces when Laura was talking about the testimony at trial and the mental health evaluations. What were you thinking about there?

[D]

Well, I mean, it just. It's the weird thing, I guess, about psychology. Not that I'm an expert, but that it's kind of an art in. In that, you know, it's not like you can do a blood test and then you turn. You're like, oh, this guy's schizophrenic, or whatever. It's like you're. You're taking a look at behaviors and. And looking at a checklist and seeing, you know, how do they conform to the description for this malady or. Or not. And the fact that they're like, she, like, seems like she has parts of, like, schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder and borderline personality and all these things. It's like, well. Well, that in itself, like, seems like kind of a problem, even if she doesn't, like, actually hit, like, 8 of 13, you know, factors or whatever. But the fact that she's, like, hitting a bunch on all these different things, that in and of itself, you know, even though maybe you can't put a. A name to it, you'd be like, well, she's seriously troubled. Like, it seems like a weird thing to walk away and be like, well, she seems basically fine. Yeah, she's kind of a freak, but, you know, it just seems like strange testimony to me. And then I think. I mean, just from watching this, and again, some documentarians making it. They. They've got their agenda. All these people are talking of their. All this stuff, but she doesn't seem like a mentally well person.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And then I think about Texas and about how there's probably pressure on. On these psychologists who are interacting with the justice system not to give people outs for mental illness.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting.

[D]

That may be a stereotype, but given the number of people who are on death row in Texas and all this,

[B]

all the prosecutors from Texas listening to this. Toby's very sorry he's not talking about you.

[D]

Yeah, allegedly. I should say allegedly. It seems a little off to me,

[B]

but the frontal lobe thing resonates with me because it sounds like a greater example of, like, what kids with ADHD have and adults with adhd. Like, I have an underdeveloped Frontal lobe. When I was a kid, I just wouldn't do my homework ever. And I would think it would be fine. And of course, it wasn't, you know, and I was in college. I ended up dropping out because I wasn't going to class. And it's like, these are things with an expiration date. You can't just not go to class and expect to.

[C]

But did you cut the baby out of somebody's.

[B]

No.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But I'm saying that that idea of, like, not foreseeing consequences, like, two weeks from now, I relate to it. We have a son who was like that when he was little. Like, I very much. I think there's something. I think with the frontal lobe that when you said that, I was like. I could see that. But a much more extreme, but not

[C]

at the clinical level, which is what we see here.

[B]

But, Kevin, there is somebody missing, largely from this documentary.

[C]

Yeah. The victim.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Reagan Hancock. And the fact that we haven't even touched on it in our discussion of it kind of shows to me how little a part of the actual story she was, I mean, somewhat invisible. And it's funny because in a way, it actually made the reveal more surprising to me. Like, all of a sudden, they're like, oh, you know, we're so deep into this whole pregnancy fraud procedural part of it, that all of a sudden we're just like, oh, my goodness, it just came. Oh, my God, Reagan, Wait a minute. That's probably who the mother was. Right? And it makes for a big reveal in an Agatha Christie novel. But as far as, like, the. The way she performed Agatha Christie novels

[B]

with cutting babies, maybe Ms. Marvel wouldn't do that one.

[C]

But, like, in this documentary, I mean, it's like, it's so violent, and she's just almost not there at all. Again, it's not like they didn't have somebody who could talk about her. I think that it was. The mother was there. They talked about her a little.

[D]

Yeah. And the sister.

[C]

But I feel like she wasn't a presence in the storytelling. You feel sorry for her and her family because she was a murder victim. But do they move beyond that as far as, like, raising, like, who she is and sort of bringing her essence into it?

[B]

I don't think I'm okay with that, honestly.

[A]

She was kind of an afterthought because the story itself of Taylor was so off the wheels that. And not that her life is not valuable, but it's like this focus was this insane lie.

[B]

Right. And horrible consequence. But sometimes they stuff all that stuff into a documentary like this. And those are the parts that are like, they feel obligatory. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying it's like, I'm not trying to be insensitive. It's just, it's tighter and it really focuses on the main I understand why they didn't linger on that. Having her mother in it was very

[C]

maybe I was just so inveigled by the pregnancy scam thing that I didn't realize when they were laying out stuff about Reagan that she was a vange, that she was connected to it in a larger way, or like she's another scam victim of something like that. I did not foresee her being the murder victim, and perhaps I should have, but I did.

[A]

Okay. As soon as they said that Reagan got pregnant at 17 and her whole life was wanting to be a mother,

[B]

I was like, she lit up a room. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, here we go.

[B]

That's the anvil right there.

[A]

Something bad is going to happen.

[D]

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[B]

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[A]

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[D]

Nope, I'm shaking the pillow version of Ozempic, which no one should ever do except in ads like this.

[B]

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[A]

Hey, thanks.

[D]

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[B]

So Kevin, who's the sponsor of this fine podcast?

[C]

Oh, we're sponsored by quints.

[B]

Shut up.

[C]

Yeah. Summer is the perfect time to rethink the clothes that you've been reaching for. Every day you take all those clothes that you bought from Quince in the winter, all those nice sweaters, you put them to one side of the closet or in a different drawer and you bring out all of last year's linens. Get the new ones to add to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Rebecca, what have you recently purchased quints?

[B]

Well, you know, I love a linen shirt.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And I have a couple of Quint's linen shirts. The European linen I love. The dark blue with the white stripes is my favorite one. I have a white one. I've got a pink one. I've got a solid blue one. They are the most versatile, cute shirts. I wear it over a bathing suit. I wear it out to dinner. We were on vacation, remember? I wore a linen shirt every day.

[C]

Yes, yes. And in fact, for that vacation, you purchased me two pairs of swimming trunks. Yes. Bathing suit. Whatever. Whatever you call it.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And I'll say that, ladies, that if you purchase one for your man, be sure to get the short one. Get the short one. Tell them you're not an 80s surfer. You don't need down to your knees. Look great, look elevated and save money. And by the way, quints is not just about clothing. It's your destination. For elevated essentials across the home, kitchen, bedding and beyond.

[B]

Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too.

[C]

Oh, sure. High.

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That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com crime all right, let's do what we do. Let's Let our listeners know should they check out the documentary Maternal Instinct, very popular on Netflix. Laura Bricker, thumbs up or thumbs down for maternal instinc.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I'm gonna go mild thumbs up on this. You know, I don't think in terms of how the documentary was told, it's necessarily, like, groundbreaking, but this is a crazy story. This is. This is a story that's one of those that just when you think you've heard it all, something else happens and it snowballs, and you're like, this is like watching a slow train crash that I can't turn away from, even though I feel kind of dirty for watching this, because it feels really voyeuristic at the same time. It's just Texas, and I think something about Texas, the crimes in Texas, and it's a certain type of crime, and I think it's basically just a straightforward retelling of this case. I would have liked to see a little more psychology of the perpetrator at the center of this case, because I think to me, that was one of the more interesting parts when you see the nature of this crime. And, you know, I can't help but wonder what was going on. And I would have liked more context on that. But overall, this is something a lot of my friends are talking about. It's just one of those stories you're like, I can't believe this actually happened.

[B]

Toby Ball, thumbs up or thumbs down from Maternal Instinct.

[D]

Yeah, so this is very formulaic, I think. I mean, I kind of feel like we've seen a bunch of things that have sort of adhered to this exact formula. I mean, it even starts with, like, the cop cam footage, but, you know, it's competently done. It tells a story. It's not confusing. It has a lot of talking heads. And the story itself is. Is pretty wild. I think Lara kind of touched on it, which is. What's wild about the story is what this woman is. Is trying to do, or the. Like, a bunch of things she's trying to do, and you're not given any insight into her at all. She is just sort of the product of these, you know, not even really plans, but these kind of actions that she takes. And it's. They're so weird. And you're kind of. At least I was left just like, what was she thinking? And that seems to have zero interest for the documentary makers. It's just. It does feel like you could take, like, a Wikipedia entry, dump it into some AI machine, and have it spit out a documentary exactly like this. So I, you know, I guess I'm a thumb sideways in that. Again, it's competently made, the story, it's not boring, and there's certainly stuff to think about when it's over. But I mean, it just, there's, it's made in a very vanilla fashion, and there's remarkably little insight into something as strange as this. I, I get the feeling in like, five months, if somebody's like, oh, you know, did you see this? I'll be like, what was that about again? And they'll have to like, explain it to me and be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I kind of remember that. So anyway, thumb sideways, Kevin Flynn.

[C]

Yeah, I think I'm going thumb sideways too. I mean, the crime is so brutal. It is intriguing and worth examining. But does this work as a documentary? Does this work as a documentary? I don't know. It has a couple of fantastic narrative moments. I had a couple of, oh, shit moments in this. And it's all based on the way that they laid the cards out and, you know, when they did that. But it also, at the same time, was rather incurious about some of the more intriguing aspects of this perpetrator. All the mental issues right here. We prefer it when these documentaries show and they don't tell, but sometimes the showing just isn't enough to provide enough context for getting what's happening here and when there are just so many other questions that ought to be raised about the people involved and what happened. So maybe it's because the interviews that they did weren't very deep or introspective. We didn't get what we normally get from that kind of access. But I think this one would have actually benefited for more telling as opposed to just showing. So it's not horrible. I mean, I, I, I was compelled by it, I want to say.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I was. My attention was hell, I don't want to say I enjoyed it and, But I, you know, I got to give it credit for a couple of things that these filmmakers did that I thought were, you know, was very effective. But overall, like, you know, is it great? No. So, I mean, like, maybe I'd say mild thumbs up if I, you know, had a couple of whiskeys in me and I was feeling sort of birthday generous. But I think that I'm comfortable going thumbs sideways.

[B]

Yeah, I'm thumbs up. Not, I'm not prevaricating. I've decided, oh, okay, after a few days that I just think this was, it deserves a thumbs up because I enjoyed watching it. You and I were Riveted. I was not looking at my second screen. If it had been 15 minutes longer, I would have stuck around. I've been talking about it with people afterward as a conversation starter. It's like a good one. I've been thinking about it, like, what the hell? Not just with the main person, but with a lot of the people in it.

[C]

All right. I'm the mildest thumbs up, I actually

[B]

think, except for the lack of psychological stuff that Lara provides in the longer portion of our review. Aside from that absence, I actually think this was made with a remarkable amount of restraint. I really do. Like they, you know, I don't know who these filmmakers are. I don't work for Netflix anymore, so I didn't get the chance to interview them or whatever. But I assume they're either British or they're coastal. Right. And this takes place, like, in the middle of the heart of a certain slice of America. And that is not acknowledged in any way. And I think that that shows a lot of restraint. And I think that, like, the interviews are very tasteful and like the story and having the. There are certain sources in this that to me, give it restraint and like, you know, it could have been horrible, I guess. This could have been so bad, but I liked it, so I'm giving it a thumbs up, I guess, is what I'm saying here.

[C]

That's gonna be something on the marquee, right? They're like, oh, this could have been horrible.

[B]

Exactly. It could have been so bad. Now it's time for my favorite part of the podcast, a little something I like to call the crime of the week. The Ferris wheel was wasn't the only thing gyrating at an English music festival. Police say a couple was spotted having sex on the ride in front of thousands of people. The crowd at the Download festival in Leicestershire was waiting for Guns N Roses to take the stage when someone noticed the couple getting it on. As the glass enclosed pod made its first pass, onlookers first thought it was just a man holding a woman from behind. The next time around, they saw her pants were off. While he was thrusting from behind on another rotation, she was seen on her knees, giving him the what for. The incident was captured on dozens of cameras and shared on social media. Despite the number of images they received, police have not been able to identify the randy couple. Public sex is not illegal in Britain, just so long as it isn't in a public bathroom.

[C]

But that's a. That's an odd cutout, right?

[B]

Yeah. But the pair could face charges of Indecent exposure. And just like sex, Ferris wheels don't go on forever. It's not known whether either of them said, stop the ride, I want to get off. So panel, what other trouble will this amorous couple get into at the festival? Lara Bricker, what do you think?

[A]

Well, I think they're going to show up at the first aid tent with some Ferris wheel related road rash or something. All right, that's going to tip everybody off as to who they were.

[B]

What do you think, Toby? What other trouble will this amorous couple get into at the festival?

[D]

I don't know if Jimmy Buffett is playing that festival, but Laura's talked about that glass that was that boobs on glass. Yeah, the boobs on glass thing.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think he's playing at that festival for a good period of reason. Yeah, I don't think he is. What about you, Kevin? What do you think is going to happen to this amorous couple next? What are they going to get into?

[C]

Well, I think it's his birthday, so they're going to go into the tunnel of love.

[B]

All right, which is the tunnel of love? The vagina. You're talking about her vagina.

[C]

Oh, it's his birthday, so.

[B]

Oh, you're talking about the back door.

[C]

The back door, yeah.

[B]

Oh, you're talking about butt stuff.

[C]

Just to be honest, I'm talking about butt stuff.

[B]

All right, Laura Bricker, folks want to reach out to you and find out what you think the tunnel of love means. How can they find you on social media?

[A]

You can find me arabricer on Instagram and Blue sky.

[B]

What about you, Toby? How can you be found online?

[D]

Obiball603 on Instagram.

[B]

What about you, Kevin?

[C]

I'm KevinP Flynn and if you want

[B]

to follow me on Instagram or X you can find me at Reb Lavoy. Follow the show everywhere including Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Blue Sky, TikTok, etc. Crimewriterson. But mostly you should join our Facebook discussion group. It's really rad. Get episodes early and ad free and everything else we [e-mail] partnersincrimemedia our theme song was composed and performed by Ty Gibbons. The executive producer of this show is Kevin and it's also edited by Kevin. This show was recorded in the Caitlyn Rogers project studio on also known as Studio C, the closet in our New Hampshire basement where we also take elaborate glamour photos of ourselves in front of horses all the time. I'm bif of all the crime writers. Thanks so much for listening. We'll catch you later. Then, as our purported due date arrived miles away, police made a gruesome discovery.

[C]

Clip 3 Again, but not so happy. That's a little more dying.

[D]

A grim discovery. A little surprise.

[A]

What's up, sports fans? I'm Rachel Demita, here to tell you about my show, Courtside Club. If you love hoops and hot takes, then you're in the right place. Want to hear about Caitlin Clark's unstoppable rise in the wnba? How stars like Wemby and Luka Doncic are dominating the NBA? Or maybe you just want the tea on this week's most viral sports moments.

[B]

Don't worry, we'll keep you updated on all of it.

[A]

So grab your popcorn and come hang with us. Courtside. You can listen to Courtside Club wherever you get your podcasts. Ooey and ah.