Widow's Bay

Summary

Crime Writers On... – "Widow’s Bay" (Apple TV)

Episode Date: July 13, 2026
Main Hosts: Rebecca Lavoie, Kevin Flynn
Panelists: Lara Bricker, Toby Ball

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Episode Overview

The Crime Writers On... panel reviews "Widow’s Bay," the Apple TV comedy-horror series starring Matthew Rhys, Kato Flynn, and Steven Root. The discussion covers how the show manages its unique blend of horror and absurdist comedy, its New England vibe, genre influences, character performances, and the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of its anthology-like structure and resolution. The episode wraps up with the panel’s signature "Thumbs Up/Down" ratings and a light Crime of the Week segment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Premise and Genre Blending

[04:42] Rebecca LaVoy:

• "Recipient of 19 Emmy nominations, Apple TV's genre bending, Widow's Bay is this year's surprise hit. [...] A show that is absurdist office comedy and part Stephen King novel."
• The series is centered around Mayor Tom Loftus, trying to turn his cursed New England island town into a tourist destination, only to stir up supernatural trouble.

[07:03] Kevin Flynn:

• "It's like Parks and Rec meets Salem's Lot."
• Discussion about the show's successful (and risky) blend of horror and comedy, with references to both slapstick moments and genuine scares.

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2. Scares, Comedy, and Tone

[05:35] Laura Bricker:

• Praises the balance: "It does a really good job blending horror and comedy with like a touch of cozy mystery. [...] You're cringing, but you're laughing as it's unfolding, and you're like, how can this be both of these things at the same time? And it is."

[06:59] Laura Bricker:

• Jokes about hiding under blankets during the clown episode, showing how effective some scares were.

[08:15] Rebecca LaVoy:

• Notes the show can deliver both real tension and laughs: "The comedy is funny and because it's not too slapstick. [...] The horror, it comes not cheaply. It's really good."

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3. Anthology Structure and Storylines

[08:50] Toby Ball:

• Critiques the semi-episodic, standalone format: "The first three episodes I was like, oh, this is actually pretty good. And then it started to get more into these like near standalones. [...] I just... it just was... It didn't work for me. [...] It just kind of fell apart."
• Feels that the show’s loose connections and “catch-all” supernatural explanations undercut dramatic stakes.

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4. Setting and New England Vibe

[11:41] Rebecca LaVoy:

• Appreciates the show's authentic New England feel: "It's entirely filmed in New England. It looks like it, it feels like it. It has a timelessness."
• Mentions tropes and homages: Jaws, Poltergeist, Stephen King, Twin Peaks.

[12:55] Laura Bricker:

• "Definitely Stephen King. [...] I'm getting sucked into sort of the mythology, like, the lore of the curse and the island."
• Draws connections to how small-town insularity feeds superstition.

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5. Character Performances

[15:37] Rebecca LaVoy & [15:44] Kevin Flynn:

• Matthew Rhys' performance is a highlight:
  • "Man of a million accents," says Rebecca.
  • Kevin: "He makes a great straight man. You need a straight man if everybody around you is weird. That's where a lot of the humor is."
  • His comic timing and “scared faces” particularly praised ([16:14]–[16:27]).

[17:42] Rebecca LaVoy, [18:04] Toby Ball:

• Discussion of supporting cast: Kato Flynn, Steven Root, Jeff Hiller ("...having a hard time getting work after winning that Emmy, so I was so happy to see him in this").

[18:04] Toby Ball:

• Criticizes that "for horror to work, you have to have some investment in the people and see them as actual people rather than as characters. And all these people seem to be, like, kind of types."

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6. The Colonial Flashback Episode

[21:13] Rebecca LaVoy, [21:19] Kevin Flynn:

• Both panelists found the 1700s origin episode dragged and detracted from stronger contemporary characters.
  • Kevin: "I just liked being with these characters so much that I just. I did not want to be away from them for an extended period of time."

[30:00] Rebecca LaVoy:

• Finds humor in how the show frames its supernatural "revelations": "The fact that we also didn't get the reveal that he was alive. That happened off camera. I thought that was actually very clever..."

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7. Standalone Episodes & Moral Dilemmas

[32:55] Laura Bricker:

• Enjoyed how the small-town characters and comedic personalities fed into “the picture of how small-town politics, tourism and supernatural and the relationship between all three of those kind of tied together."
• The finale’s moral dilemma (the curse lifted by potentially killing the kindly Rosemary) provided more emotional investment than the supernatural mystery.

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8. Show’s Vibes & Genre Influences

[15:08] Rebecca LaVoy:

• Noted "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and “hellmouth” parallels, with central characters experiencing horror while townsfolk remain oblivious.

[40:00] Rebecca LaVoy, [40:07] Kevin Flynn:

• Loved the show’s playful intertextuality: nods to Lost/Dharma Initiative (the cursed island, found-footage explanation), slasher conventions, and lo-fi community access shows inside the show.

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9. Series Resolution and Foreshadowing

[38:02] Rebecca LaVoy, [38:09] Toby Ball:

• Criticism that the final resolution came too abruptly, unsatisfactorily explained, with major clues arriving late:
  • Toby: "Why do you feel like you don't need to foreshadow this at all? There doesn't have to be any clues along the way... There’s none of that."
• Kevin suggests the ending at least positions the show for a new season with a fresh premise.

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10. Favorite Quotes & Moments

• [07:03] Kevin Flynn: "It's like Parks and Rec meets Salem's Lot."
• [05:35] Laura Bricker: "I do actually have a video of me hiding that Lance shot when we were watching this. I was hiding under the bed covers. Cause I was so scared during the clown episode."
• [16:14] Kevin Flynn: "His scared faces, like, when he—like his expression. I don't think I've ever seen an actor look that scared. The way he's able to twist up his face, it rivals Claire Dane's ugly cry face."
• [10:00] Toby Ball (paraphrased): "Some of this stuff didn’t seem like it was connected to anything [...] I didn’t find it very scary at all. It kind of seems like sort of Scooby Doo scares type of thing."
• [38:09] Toby Ball: "I didn't know what the... was going on. [...] The whole thing is like, 'We've gotta, you know, kill the last of the bloodline,' and then the curse will end and everything will be fine, and then nobody gets killed that has anything to do with the bloodline, but everything stops."
• [47:26] Kevin Flynn: "It has, like, the best of the scariest episodes of the X Files. And also mixed in with the Office or Parks and Rec for its comedy of manners."

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Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down Reviews (⚡Final Verdicts⚡)

[44:57] Lara Bricker (Thumbs Up):*

• "A really fun summer watch. [...] It's mystery, it's horror, it's cozy mystery. There's humor in it, which doesn't seem like any of this should go together. It does. There's Matthew Rhys. [...] Not like anything else."

[46:14] Toby Ball (Thumbs Down):*

• "Just didn't do it for me. [...] The first three episodes and then it just kind of seemed to fall apart for me. [...] By episode seven or eight, I was just like, 'All right, I guess I gotta watch the rest of this for this show,' but I had pretty much lost interest."

[47:26] Kevin Flynn (Thumbs Up):*

• "A really great balance of comedy and horror. [...] The world building—I loved it. I'm glad I didn't understand all of it. [...] It's a fun fun watch for me. I laughed, I screamed, I... jump scared."

[48:46] Rebecca LaVoy (Thumbs Up):*

• "I'm giving a thumbs up too, in no small part because one of my two favorite television actors is in this show, Matthew Rhys. [...] I love the atmosphere. I love the deep New England-ness of it. It's a hard thing to capture."

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Memorable Segment Timestamps

• Premise & Introductions: [03:34]–[04:42]
• Blending Horror & Comedy: [05:35]–[08:15]
• Stand-alone Episode Debate: [08:50]–[11:41]
• Small-town/New England Setting: [11:41]–[15:08]
• Matthew Rhys/Characters: [15:37]–[18:04]
• Colonial Flashback Episode: [21:13]–[22:23]
• Moral Dilemma Finale: [32:55]–[33:49]
• Series Resolution Critique: [38:02]–[40:29]
• Thumbs Ratings: [44:57]–[48:46]

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Notable Quotes

• “[05:35] Laura Bricker: '...It does a really good job blending horror and comedy with like a touch of cozy mystery... You're cringing, but you're laughing as it's unfolding, and you're like, how can this be both of these things at the same time? And it is.'"
• “[07:03] Kevin Flynn: 'It's like Parks and Rec meets Salem's Lot.'"
• “[16:14] Kevin Flynn: 'His scared faces... twist up his face, it rivals Claire Danes' ugly cry face.'"
• “[38:09] Toby Ball: 'I didn't know what the... was going on.'"

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Listener Takeaways

• Fans of horror-comedy, atmospheric New England tales, and meta-genre deconstruction will likely find "Widow’s Bay" a fresh, fun summer watch—if a little uneven.
• The show's greatest strength is its confident balancing of tension and absurdism, anchored by standout performances, especially from Matthew Rhys.
• However, the series’ loose episodic structure and unsatisfactory resolution may frustrate viewers seeking a tightly plotted supernatural mystery.
• Highly recommended (by three out of four panelists) for those who enjoy genre-mixing and quality ensemble casts, with a warning for easily spooked: keep a blanket handy!

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Crime of the Week Highlight

[51:47]–[52:15]

• Set-Up: A Kentucky duo is arrested with bags labeled “definitely not a bag full of drugs” (misspelled) containing drugs—prompting panelists to brainstorm future hilarious criminal giveaways.
• Memorable Panel Responses:
  • Lara Bricker: "5-star Yelp reviews for this pair: 'Great product, great dealers to work with.'"
  • Toby Ball: A bag labeled "drugs I am holding for a friend."
  • Kevin Flynn: "A Home Depot special including shovels and tarps and lime, definitely not a murder kit."

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For panelist social handles, Patreon extras, and bonus segments, see [53:14]+ or visit the show’s social pages: X (@crimewriterson) and facebook.com/crimewritersonpodcast.

Transcript

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[Kevin Flynn]

To get the crime writers on after show right now, go to patreon.com partnersincrimemedia

[Rebecca LaVoy]

I'm Rebecca LaVoy and this is Crime Writers on. Crimewriters. On is the original true crime review podcast that digs into true crime, pop culture, other podcasts, and on this episode, the mayor tries to turn his small island town into a tourist destination, which is hard to do when the whole place is cursed. We'll talk about the Apple TV comedy horror series Widow's Bay, starring Matthew Rhys. Joining me to get that done and more is true crime author, TV journalist and host of these Are Their Stories podcast, my husband and the love of my life, it's Kevin Flynn. Hello, Kevin.

[Kevin Flynn]

Hello, Rebecca.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Also with us, private investigator, certified pet detective, resident cat lady, and author of the Final Curtain, Laura Bricker. Hi, Laura.

[Laura Bricker]

Hey, Rebecca.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

And finally, it is our captain of all things cynical, author of the City trilogy, host of Strange Arrivals, and our Patreon Deep Dive Book club podcast. It's Toby Ball. Hola, Toby.

[Toby Ball]

Hola, Rebecca.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

So, Kevin, what is coming up in future editions of this program?

[Kevin Flynn]

Okay, so on Thursday, we're gonna have our classic rewind to season one of Suspect.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Yay.

[Kevin Flynn]

One of Rebecca's all time favorites. And then a week from today, we'll have a brand new fresh episode of Crime Writers on. And we will be review, I mean the latest season of Uncover from cbc. It's Uncover the Expert Witness.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

I'm looking forward to that. I have to say, Suspect season one is one of the only podcasts I have ever listened to multiple times. I've listened to it so many times. Probably like six times. Because I'm like, yeah. Cause I always recommend it to people. And then I'm like, I gotta listen to make sure that this person will like it. And then I just get sucked in and I listen to the whole thing. It's like my comfort listen. It's so good. It's like a puzzle gets put together, taken apart, put together. And I just. I love it so, so much.

[Kevin Flynn]

So I'm going to have Macklemore in it.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Yes, Macklemore is randomly in it. Wait, don't spoil it. Yeah, but it is random. It is a random.

[Kevin Flynn]

Pretty random.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

It is. It's like as random as it can get. All right, well, Kevin, I can't wait to talk about this TV show we're here to talk about. So can we get the show started?

[Kevin Flynn]

Let's do it.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

All right, leading off.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

There is something about these seafaring towns, the superstitions there. Tall tales. Maybe it's that stories help pass a long day at sea. I don't know, but I find it charming myself.

[Kevin Flynn]

Was there cannibalism?

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

No.

[Kevin Flynn]

Well, the article behind you.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Forced inside the church.

[Toby Ball]

They immediately turned to cannibalism.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

I don't think that's right.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Mayor Tom Loftus wants to turn his struggling New England island town into a thriving tourist attraction. But some residents believe Widow's Bay is cursed and his efforts to boost it are stirring up otherworldly forces.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

It already took ship and it'll take the rest of us tonight. It's a haunt. I didn't realize it was a haunt. I'm sorry. Could you remind me again? A haunt is worse than a spook, but not as bad as a fright. Oh, equal to a scare, right?

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Tom is thwarted by his staff's bumbling ineptitude and a series of supernatural encounters that shake his confidence. As the skeptical mayor slowly becomes a believer, he works to break the curse in which any island born natives die if they leave for the mainland.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Loftus, you know there's something wrong with this island. You've seen it with your own two eyes. Now come on, son. You're right here with me, seeing what I'm seeing. You can call it off right now. No, I can't. We can. It's not right to bring anyone here. You know it. Island's awake now. It's dangerous.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Recipient of 19 Emmy nominations, Apple TV's genre bending, Widow's Bay is this year's surprise hit. Nominees Matthew Rhys, Kato Flynn and Steven Root star in A show that is absurdist office comedy and part Stephen King novel. Can a misfit group of heroes decipher why their island community is haunted, protect its inhabitants, and reverse the fate of its native born residents, including Tom's son? Spoiler alert. We're going to be talking about plot points from Widow's Bay, so if you want to remain spoiler free, go to the estimated timecode in our show notes for our thumbs up or thumbs down reviews. Laura Bricker. I watched about 15% of this series from under a blanket. AKA I listened to about 15% of this series from under a blanket or from the other room. What do you think about the actual scariness that this accomplishes?

[Laura Bricker]

Well, yeah, the scariness. So I do actually a video of me hiding that Lance shot when we were watching this. I was hiding under the bed covers. Cause I was so scared during the clown episode. But I think that's what's interesting about this show. It does a really good job blending horror and comedy with like a touch of cozy mystery. And it's not things that I would normally think would or should or could go together. And it's, you know, sometimes like one thing's gonna overwhelm the other thing. Like, is it gonna be too scary or not scary enough? Is it gonna be too funny or not funny enough? But it's genuinely funny. Like, there's some scenes that you don't think should be funny, that at one point Matthew Reese's character is gonna potentially have to kill this woman, this old woman, and she's so nice. And it's just like you're watching it and you're cringing, but you're laughing as it's unfolding and you're like, how can this be both of these things at the same time? And it is. And in the beginning, I was worried it was gonna be too scary for me. And then it kind of leveled out as it went along. So it was kind of fit into this genre that I was like, I don't. We call this. It's pretty original, but it definitely had all those vibes of Stephen King like you were saying. So it was. It was very unique, including a jump

[Rebecca LaVoy]

scare with a clown. Yeah, I did not.

[Laura Bricker]

Like, I didn't watch that part. That's when I was hiding.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

No, you're. It's like Parks and Rec meets Salem lot.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Parks and Rec episode treaty.

[Kevin Flynn]

Okay.

[Sugar Bee Apple Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

I think that's why it's my. Yeah, right, right, Larry, you're right. It's like, how can these two things be in this. Right. But it's also how can they make both of these things fit and do both things so well? Comedy and horror. It's not a mystery comedy. It's not a comedy thriller. Right. It's horror and comedy. And I think, you know, welcome to Derry, which was on hbo, was even scarier. This is, this is not as scary. But forget like doing these like think pieces on like why do we like true crime? What's up? What's wrong with people? Like true Crime? It's like, why do we love the children of prestige horror in 2026? Right. But as you say, Laurie, they do like both things really well. The comedy is, is funny and because it's not too slapstick, which is sort of like more absurdist. And Matthew Reese is kind of like the straight man and then seems very like bug eyed, cowardly. It works. It works because the comedy is funny and that the horror, it comes not cheaply. It's really good.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

One of my least favorite things is when three of us really like something and one of us doesn't. It's like one of my least favorite things. I feel like that person might feel ostracized, like an outsider. Like perhaps they're outside of the fog of this New England island. But Toby, this show had sort of an anthology kind of vibe to it too, where episodes to some extent could have stood alone and been just like, you know, this week the Big Bad is like on Buffy the Vampire Slayer or whatever. But Toby, I see from your notes that that did not work for you.

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, you know, I, I like the first three episodes. I was like, oh, this is actually pretty good. And then it started to get more into these like near standalones. Like it starts off with Patricia's party, I think is the first one that.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Sunset Cocktails.

[Toby Ball]

Sunset Cocktails. And then there's like the, the Shroom episode. There's the hotel staying at the hotel episode.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

You saw something and you're still going to let folks stay here.

[Kevin Flynn]

Don't you start with this. You raise your voice. Is a town it's not. It's perfectly fine.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Then you go in the Captain Suite.

[Toby Ball]

There's a just interminable one about the origin of the curse back in the like 1600s or something that just is just absolutely so boring. I don't know. Like, I think part of it was that it's just like everything can kind of fall under the, like it's the island, you know, so some of this stuff didn't seem like it was connected to anything. Like the, the Patricia's party. And then there's like this sort of Jason, like, slasher, and that's like a whole other episode. It's like, what does it have anything to do with anything? Or is this like something else that happened that seems to be coming back? Like, you never even find out who the identity of the person is. I didn't find it very scary at all. It kind of seems like sort of Scooby Doo scares type of thing. And I mean, it's trying to have fun with like horror tropes, right? So it's hard to do that and also be kind of unpredictable. So there was a fair amount of time when it's like, oh, that guy's not real. Or, you know, the, the slasher is going to come back. What, what. Whatever it is. Like the slasher is going to walk really slowly and she's going to sprint, but they're going to be at the same place at the same time all the time. So I don't know. I. I just. It just was. It didn't work for me. And which is too bad because the first three episodes I was like, this is going to be surprisingly good. And then I, for me, it just kind of fell apart. And the explanation for like everything that was going on was just so kind of vague and was sort of such a catch all. It was so unspecific that basically anything that happened could be ascribed to it, including like weather, you know, what you're making your punch out of, you know, hallucinations at a hotel, all these different things all get sort of put back to this original curse. It's just like, well, so anything could happen. So I don't know. I kind of, to be quite honest, pretty much lost interest about episode six or seven and sort of slogged through the rest of it. But yeah, it didn't do it for me.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

I forgive you, Toby. That's all right, Lara. One of the things I love about the show is the New England ness of it. It's entirely filmed in New England. It looks like it, it feels like it. It has a timelessness. Insofar as for the first 10 minutes of the show, I couldn't figure out if it took place like in the 70s, 80s, 90s or now. Impossible to tell. And I think that was very intentional.

[Kevin Flynn]

No cell phones that.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Exactly.

[Kevin Flynn]

It's a big narrative deal.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

And yeah, that's something that Ann Patchett always talks about. It's like you can't have, you know, you can't have characters resolving a problem if they have a Cell phone in their hand, like, you know, it's like a whole thing. There's a Jaws, certainly, homage in it. There's. I mean, just. Oh, it certainly has an homage. As we talked about with the creepy clown. And that's also Poltergeist. There's all this stuff that sort of, I think, hearkens to Stephen King as a very New England person, but also there's, I think, a New England spirit to it. And whereas Toby found the episode where they go back to, like, colonial times and Betty Gilpin is there as the wife of this guy, and it's all creepy and stuff, New Englanders care a fuck ton about what happened 200, 300, 400 years ago in this part of the world. So I got some of that there, too. What did you think about the vibes of this show?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, so I think I agree with you on the vibes. It was definitely like, I could see, like, at one point when they went out in the boat, I'm like. With the old guy, I'm like, okay, this is reminding me of Jaws right now. And they're. I'm like, oh, God, is there going to be a shark out here? I was feeling some Twin Peaks kind of feeling there. I'm like, where's the log, lady? Or, you know, because Twin Peaks was always. You know, you were also kind of wondering, is this real or is this not real? And it's only in this little town where these things are happening. Definitely Stephen King. And I think part of the bigger picture of that is I was always like, then I'm getting sucked into sort of the mythology, like, the lore of the curse and the island. And, you know, is this something that's actually happened? Or is this something where, you know, generations of people on this island are actually so caught up in the belief that has been passed down that they've started to manifest it and believe it. And, you know, I think we see that through the character, Matthew Reese's character, through the. Through the mayor, who in the beginning is kind of like. Seems like he's kind of brushing it off. And the old guy's like, it's happening again. But I think it's like, what causes this curse? Is the island alive, which is true. What is superstition? How far back does this go? Is it the island that's cursed? Is it the people that are cursed? Is it something that they've, you know, why can't they get cell signal? Why don't they have tv? Why don't they have modern conveniences out here? But then it's. And it's. And it's fascinating because then that ties into the whole bigger picture of, like, how they're, like, marketing this as a tourist destination. And so there's that playing off against everybody being caught up in this mystery of what's happening in the island. And I'm caught up because I was hoping it was all gonna tie together. Like Toby was saying, there was all these standalone mysteries, and I'm like, okay, how are they all gonna tie together at the end? And I don't know if they necessarily did in the way that I was hoping, but I did appreciate that New England vibe to this and feeling like I could just be off the coast of Maine right now and never coming home.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Yeah. I mean, I do think that one other trope they play with is the Buffy the Vampire Slayer trope, where there are these central people who are experiencing everything, and then you just see a bunch of background actors who are, like, tourists or whatever walking around, and you're like, they're not seeing any of this shit. Like, they're just hanging out here. Like, they're just having a good time, eating oysters or whatever, and, like, they're fine, and all these central characters are in the middle. Like, there's a hell mouth opening up and a guy getting sucked into the sky and all that stuff. But, Kevin, I want to talk to you about my favorite television actor.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Oh.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Matthew Rhys.

[Kevin Flynn]

Matthew Reese.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Man of a million accents.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

What do you think about him in this program?

[Kevin Flynn]

I really like him. I think he's. I don't know if he'd be the obvious choice. He hasn't done a lot of comedy, as I can recall.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

There's some very funny parts in the Americans, to be sure.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah. But, I mean, he's so good at this. For a couple of reasons. One, he makes a great straight man. I think we were talking about this, and you need a straight man if everybody around you is weird. Right. And that's where a lot of the humor is, where he's just really trying to keep it together, but everybody around him is insufferable in different ways.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

And I'll tell you something else. I just want to know if you talk to Mitch. I don't want any gossip. Not today. And you won't get any from me.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Great.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

But apparently there's no age limit on syphilis. Jesus Christ. Guy says he's a quarter Cherokee.

[Kevin Flynn]

I ran his genealogy.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Did you talk to Mitch? Do you have any updates on the outages?

[Kevin Flynn]

So that makes him a funny Hero. But, like, his scared faces, like, when he. Like his expression. I don't think I've ever seen an actor look that scared. The way he's able to twist up his face, it rivals Claire Dane's ugly cry face. Maybe they were on the set of the Beast Within Me or the Beast in Me, and they're like, look at this. Watch. I can do this with my eyebrows. And someone on our Facebook discussion group posted something, and it's like, he looks like courage, this cowardly dog, you know? And I just think. I think he's great. He definitely brings. He definitely brings, you know, a unique skill set to this. He's, you know, he's the big name in this.

[Sugar Bee Apple Advertiser]

Right.

[Kevin Flynn]

You know, but I mean, the exception being and sort of kind of underused Jeff Hiller, who is Dale the office worker. He's an Emmy winner. Right.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

But he can't get work. Have you heard that? He's, like, having a really hard time getting work after winning that Emmy, so I was so happy to see him in this.

[Kevin Flynn]

Matthew Reese, great. I mean, great in everything he's been in. But, like, was he the obvious choice to play this role? No, but he fits it so, so well, as, you know, the guy who doesn't want to start believing it but slowly does.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

So, Toby, what do you think about the characters in this show? I mean, if you look on social media, people love Kato Flynn as Patricia. They love Steven Root as Wick. They love Matthew Rhys. They love Jeff Hiller. They love these characters. And I'm gle from your notes that that is not the same in your case.

[Toby Ball]

So this is the thing is, I like them all, like, as characters, but again, it's like, I feel like for horror to work, you have to have some investment in the people and see them as actual people rather than as characters. And all these people seem to be, like, kind of types. And I think it was like, they did it. The actors did a great job with those types. Like, I. I felt like that was where most of the humor came from, really was. Was these. These actors, like, portraying these sort of eccentric, funny characters, but at the same time, like. Like, I didn't actually think any of them were ever gonna die. So, like, the horror, like, is kind of, you know, it just seemed kind of tamped down a little bit.

[Kevin Flynn]

You didn't think mar. Matthew Reese's character was gonna die?

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, I just.

[Kevin Flynn]

Episode four.

[Toby Ball]

I was never super worried about what was gonna happen to any of these people. I think that kind of stuff works better in comedy than it does in horror if you're trying to really scare people or. And I think even more so, like, the final episode contains, like, these extended scenes, which are kind of funny, but also sort of sad and melancholy, where Tom is trying to kind of get Rosemary to say things that will help him justify to himself the fact that he's essentially going to kill her to rid the island of its curse.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

You're a good person. You don't deserve this.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

You know, I had an affair with a married man.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

That's okay.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

I was young.

[Toby Ball]

That's not true.

[Kevin Flynn]

I was 40.

[Toby Ball]

It didn't feel like it had earned. Like, these characters had, like, earned that kind of gravitas of that. Of that conversation. Cause they're always just so eccentric and sort of comedy characters who are in a horror movie. But not in a kind of clever way, I didn't think so. As far as the comedy stuff, I thought it worked well. As far as the horror stuff, I didn't think it worked well at all. I just think about, like, Westworld, but there was this whole kind of thing where, like, there were people who talked like they were in Westerns and acted like they were in Westerns, and then they're around other people who are just like normal modern people. And that was sort of this interesting juxtaposition. And that doesn't really happen here. I guess that's part of my thing with this, is that I feel as though we've seen a lot of this stuff done by. In more clever shows. Like, with the whole 1700s thing, I was like, well, what if the people who wrote Dark had had that piece? Like, it just would have been so much more clever and tied into what was going on in the, like, current day part. It really didn't. It was like kind of the standalone thing that sort of gave you kind of an origin story, but the connection was just like, this is how the curse started, and there wasn't much more to it.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

So, Kevin, I just want to give you a chance to weigh in, because you also, I see from your notes, did not care for the 1700s episode.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, no, no, exactly. I agree. I agree. Because I love the characters so much here that, you know, it could have been a different way of sort of, you know, setting up that origin story or whatever, spread it out or, you know, whatever. I don't know, other than sort of, like, seeing the face of the guy who ends up coming back as I forget the character's name, but the one who had been buried alive or whatever.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

How are you still alive? I was tricked by a devil unbetrayed by my lessers. But an evil power sustains me other

[Kevin Flynn]

than just, like, knowing who that is when you see him. I don't think we really needed to get that deep into what life was like in 1702 or whatever like that. But I just liked being with these characters so much that I just. I did not want to be away from them for an extended period of time. Which is what's great about Patreon, is you can always have us.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Never be away from us, Never be

[Kevin Flynn]

away from us, because there's always something that we're shooting up, putting on Patreon.

[Toby Ball]

We're sorry. So they were shooting up, you know,

[Kevin Flynn]

not shooting up, but you're having, like, weird mushrooms. But, yeah, it's great stuff. Every month on Patreon, we're doing almost two dozen episodes of stuff. It's a great deal. But more importantly, you're sustaining this podcast. The address is patreon.com partnersincrimedia. You'll get the crime writers on after show, Toby Ball's Deep Dive Book Club podcast, our advice podcast Married with podcast, and Rebecca and Mel Barrett's True Crime analysis in Something's off audio version. Audio version. You'll also get Laura Bricker's Leave it to Bricker, in which Laura solves mysteries, or at least mysteries to her in her quaint aftown of Exeter, New Hampshire. She's not going all the way back to, like, 1600, but like the 1700s, right?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, we are pretty. We do go pretty far back here in Exeter. We were the Revolutionary War capital of the state of New Hampshire.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Mmm.

[DSW Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

And you still have some of those muskets hanging around. I think if you join us at the let's do what we do level, you get all the episodes of Crime Riders on early and add free. And if you're a deep diver, you get to be an exclusive sponsor of Toby Ball's Deep Dive Book Club podcast. Toby, on your latest episode, you had. Your guests included Samantha Axtell, Przyzbilowitz, Sarah Killeen, and Maggie Freeling. Tell us about the book that you read.

[Toby Ball]

We read a book called Murderland, which I think was number one in the nonfiction list for the New York Times at one point. It's this very, very strange book, but it's about. She kind of has this theory which other people have had, and I. I came to learn on our discussion has been debunked that serial killers, like, there's this proliferation of serial killers in the Pacific Northwest because there was a lot of lead and arsenic pollution and that led to their violent behavior or whatever. But it's a very. It's a very eccentric book. We had a great discussion about it. It was a really fun talk.

[Kevin Flynn]

Other ways to support us include our Amazon storefront, which is where you can find some of our favorite things. Rebecca, what are this week's Amazon recommendations?

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Well, Kevin, as you know, every few weeks I like to get my nails done. I get the gel, which I know is not good for you, but I like it. I like it. I can't help it. But everyone always asks me about my signature color red that I wear all the time. And I just want to say I buy my own gel nail polish on Amazon and I bring it to the the salon with me and I'm like, use this one. And my favorite color red, my favorite shade of red is OPI Big Apple red, which you can buy on Amazon. You can buy anything that you have if you go to the salon and they do your nails and you're like, what is that? Take a picture of it. You can buy it yourself and then you can have it in your purse and, oh, it always be handy when you always get your nails done.

[Kevin Flynn]

Speaking of carrying things around in his purse, Toby Ball is compiled. His listener inspired Toby Ball's deep cut recommendations.

[Toby Ball]

It's a European man bag, Kevin. But.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, sorry, sorry. Yes, yes, of course.

[Toby Ball]

We'll start off. I think Lara probably already has this, but if not, she wants one. A funny cat butt tissue box cover. Realistic resin cat dispenser for cube boxes. It's a cat dispenser. I don't get it.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Black.

[Toby Ball]

A realistic resin crouching cat tissue box holder. Tissues emerge from the cat's rear end for bathroom, office or home decor.

[Kevin Flynn]

Classy.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Yeah, I like that.

[Toby Ball]

I like the fact that it's realistic. That really that's what I'm looking for.

[Kevin Flynn]

Now, you don't want to pull it out of a cartoon cat. You want it to be a little juicy. Yeah, exactly.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Little eye of sun and then rub

[Kevin Flynn]

your face all over it.

[Toby Ball]

Just stick it right in there. Next up. This is also a good one. It's fresh pig bacon flavored toothpaste. None of that. Turkey bacon. Pig bacon gift ideas for bacon lovers. Funny gag gifts. Fluoride free. Very important. You don't want any fluoride in your toothpaste.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

What's the point?

[Kevin Flynn]

It's got bacon but no fluoride.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Oh, is this for dogs or something?

[Toby Ball]

No, it's for you. Starts your morning with the Scent of breakfast. And again, it reiterates it's fluoride free, so you don't have to worry about getting fluoride.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Oh, there are some people and that little Maha movement who think fluoride is bad. That's a new thing.

[Toby Ball]

Sounds like the fluoridation of the water was like a huge freaking freakout in the 50s.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah, that's how they get you. Well, you can see all that stuff at our other favorite [e-mail] shop crimewriterson. We actually have our own shop on Amazon. Yeah, we earn commissions on qualified purchases.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Kevin, before we end this business section, I have a very important question to ask you. Do we have any Patreon patron saints of the week this week?

[Kevin Flynn]

Our Patreon patron saints are Heather Hawke and Alana Engel Chavez.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Bless you, Heather and Alana. You are part of the critical infrastructure of this podcast because we can't make it if we don't have people supporting us on Patreon. And two of you are part of those people. It's made of people. And you are two of those people. So thank you very, very much. We really appreciate you. And Kevin does. Thus end our business section.

[Kevin Flynn]

Thus ends up the business section.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Let's fade that music out. So, Kevin, who's the next sponsor for this fine podcast?

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, our sponsor is Quince.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Kevin, I'm wearing a quince dress right now.

[Kevin Flynn]

I know. Hold on, Nana. Don't get ahead of ourselves. The best summer pieces are the ones you end up wearing on repeat. Comfortable, versatile, and somehow right for almost every occasion. And quince makes it easy to create a summer wardrobe that you'll love with

[Rebecca LaVoy]

things like what is this incredible linen wrap dress? I wear this dress all the time. This button down like camp dress. I love it.

[Kevin Flynn]

They've got such amazing European linen products shirts that I have. It's great for the summertime. You look.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

I just ordered.

[Kevin Flynn]

Very comfortable yet elegated. Wait, wait, wait. I mean elevated. Elevated. But we don't know. You just ordered more stuff from Quint.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Did you see the package upstairs? His pair of pants.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, that's.

[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

I was.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

European linen pants. I had to try them. Is there a new style?

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, man. Oh man.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Sorry.

[Kevin Flynn]

No, it's okay. It's okay. At this point though, Quince, please, you must name a whole clothing line after Rebecca because she has single handedly kept several people employed. Yes, I think there at Quint's.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

To make your summer wardrobe feel easier, go to quints.com crime crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too.

[Kevin Flynn]

Bonjour high.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com crime crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com crime crime

[Sugar Bee Apple Advertiser]

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[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

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[Laura Bricker]

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[Rebecca LaVoy]

One of my issues with the 1700 storyline, which, by the way, when they. That guy, spoiler alert. Turned out to, like, be alive in his coffin, and he's just like a regular dude. And they're like, he's upstairs. And then he just. You're able to talk to him. Like, that was like. So I thought so deeply funny because he wasn't a zombie. He wasn't scared. He was just like.

[Kevin Flynn]

But also had some scares in him.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Of course he had some scares in him. But they're like, oh, he's.

[Kevin Flynn]

But that whole scene.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Oh, you are. Your fucking mind. All right, Just listen to what she's telling. Oh, my God, he's in there. No, he's upstairs. I moved him.

[Toby Ball]

Why?

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Why? Why did you move him?

[Laura Bricker]

Because he's still alive.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

What?

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Well, the fact that we also didn't get the reveal that he was alive. That happened off camera. I thought that was actually very clever because you find out they have the thing, they have it, and then he walks. And they're like, he's still alive. And they're like, what? And they're like, he's upstairs. And it was just. There was something about that that I found very charming in a weird way. But the problem for me with the 1700 storyline was that they put Betty Gilpin back there, which meant that she wasn't gonna be in the present day storyline and therefore gonna be a very limited character in the show. And I freaking love her. And I also love the other actor.

[Kevin Flynn]

Maybe she gets buried alive too. We all know.

[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

Maybe.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Maybe I also love the other actors in the show, especially as you mentioned, Kevin Jeff Hiller, who is in somebody somewhere, which is just a brilliant show on HBO that if you haven't watched it, you just have to. It's so freaking good. But Lara, what do you think about all these little characters? Do you feel like, do you feel like they were interesting, the fact that they were believable for the landscape that we got on the show? And do you feel like we got enough time with them?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, I mean, I think I didn't read into like this show was kind of like a fun summer watch and I think there was definitely opportunities to have gone more into development of some of these characters. But for me it was just more about this quirky island and kind of the stereotype of certain characters. I'm like, okay, here's this person who works in the mayor's office who like really very self important, like we've all seen those people when we were newspaper reporters or whatever. And you know, here's the old woman who's still working in the city government, town government, who's been there forever, and the new sheriff who's come to town and you know, from from afar and isn't familiar with the ways here. So for me I, I appreciated the characters just in kind of the, the picture of how small town politics, tourism and supernatural and the relationship between all three of those kind of tied together, using that small town setting and those small town characters as sort of the vehicle to tell that type of a story. And you know, I think watching somebody that's a mayor in a little town and his entire focus is on the tourism coming to this island. And I love the scene where they have to go down, like the tourists all have to go down in like the bomb shelter and they're like running out of food and it's like pandemonium

[Toby Ball]

and we're gonna, whoa.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

We're gonna sort it all out, people.

[Toby Ball]

Don't worry.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Just be calm. All right?

[Kevin Flynn]

He's right. We can go weeks without food, but not without water.

[Laura Bricker]

So yeah, I wasn't really invested like Toby. I didn't like get super invested in like, oh my gosh, what's gonna happen until the end when we have instead of a mystery, more of a moral dilemma. That comes up. But leading up to that, I did feel bad. I was like, oh, I'm gonna feel bad if he has to kill the old woman. Like, I'm gonna feel bad because she's making him tea. I am gonna feel bad for that. But.

[Toby Ball]

But do you think she was really going to.

[Laura Bricker]

I. No, but I was. I was hoping he didn't. And then I. You know, I was like, oh, that's. That's gonna be. Oh, if you have to do that. And then I. I thought she was gonna sacrifice herself. I thought she was gonna be like, tom, I know why you're here, and don't worry, I'll kill myself so you don't have to.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

She probably would have done that. She was so nice.

[Laura Bricker]

I was waiting for that to happen. I was waiting for her to be. Don't you get your hands dirty here?

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Yeah. So I really love the actor Dale Dickey in this. I have seen her in so many things. She kind of tends to play these, like, crotchety older women who, you know, are the town character or whatever. And here she just. I keep thinking. I kept.

[Kevin Flynn]

When I saw her in Hunting Wives recently.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Yes, yes. But she's in tons of stuff. And whenever I see her, you think she's gonna be one thing. And in this show, I kept thinking about the fact that this was originally a Parks and Rec treatment. Because I'm like, she is a Parks and Rec character in the show. Steven Root plays. He's sort of the Ron Swanson of the show. You have, like, sort of the Earnest mixed with the I'm not going anywhere. Cause I'm getting my pension from this job kind of situation. And she's that. And then there's this scene, which I know not all of you like, looking at your notes, where she's doing the bloodlines and just, like, everybody's a lesbian, you know, so it's just like, lesbians.

[Kevin Flynn]

That's why they didn't procreate.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

That's right. Dead baby.

[Kevin Flynn]

Dead baby, lesbian.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Can you please stop saying lesbian?

[Laura Bricker]

I can't say that now.

[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

It's the way you're saying it.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Fine.

[Sugar Bee Apple Advertiser]

Anyway, this next batch, I'll retards.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Rosemary, can you please just get on with it?

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Those are the kinds of things I liked. I just. But I did feel that, you know, instead of doing the 1700s thing, as I said, that we could have spent more time if we're gonna do standalone episodes with some of these people and just, like, getting maybe a little of their backstory and sort of seeing what they're made of. So I don't know. That was something that I kind of missed. Kevin, you even note that the scares don't come cheap. What does that even mean if you've

[Kevin Flynn]

watched slasher movies or whatever, that sometimes, like, the jump scares just come because they weren't expecting it or whatever. I felt like. And this occurred to me in the episode with the Sea Hag.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Oh, I was not able to watch that one.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, right. And, like, okay, so there's the scene where Tom is, like, he's drugged or whatever, and he's, like, trying to flee, and he's hiding in the. The bathtub. And then, you know, the seat. We see the sea hat coming in, like, sort of going towards the camera. And then we know, like, she's on the other side of the. Of the curtain. And it's just. It's more about tension, and it really builds the tension, and it does it in a really great way. I. I have the same sort of sense with the, you know, the sunset cocktail party. What made that was the twist about what the book was that she had actually been reading. And I felt like they did that one really. I was really scared, and I was, like, sort of titillated about how. How scared I was because it felt very natural. And I think that what it does is it works because it has great timing. And I realized as Laura was talking, that's what you need in both comedy and. And in horror. You need perfect timing in order to make it.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

And sex.

[Kevin Flynn]

Well, I mean, whatever. If you want to say funny sex, I guess maybe.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Perfect timing. That's what I'm saying.

[Kevin Flynn]

Perfect timing. But timing is everything in comedy. Rebecca, ask me, what is everything in comedy?

[Rebecca LaVoy]

What is everything?

[Kevin Flynn]

Right, okay. And so they're able to do both, and they both work well as sort of this, like, narrative dynamic flow where it goes into one, into each other. It's almost like the opposite of comic relief. I don't want to get, like, too Shakespearean here, but there's the. The classic is in Macbeth where you have the scene and then Macbeth kills the king, and it is very high drama. And then what ends up happening is they cut to, you know, this drunken doorman who stumbles around, and you get laughs, and it's literal comic relief. And then he opens the door, and the drama picks up again. And it's because Shakespeare brought you down so he can bring you back up again. And that's what this sort of does, that it's mostly a comedy and pretty straightforward. And you don't know whether you're going to get the laugh or you're gonna get the scare. And I think it's because the timing is perfect for both of those skills, and that's why it's original. That's why it works.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

So, Toby, you did not like the end of the series. Why did you not like the ending? Just go ahead and say it. It's okay.

[Toby Ball]

I didn't know what the. Was going on. I. You know, the whole thing is like, we've gotta, you know, kill the last of the bloodline, and then the curse will end and everything will be fine, and then nobody gets killed that has anything to do with the bloodline, but everything stops. And I was like, were they just wrong? What's going on? And then it took, like. Then I was like, it took a little while to figure out, at least for me. I was like, oh, wait, they saw that film and it's about sacrificing and something about the number of bells or something. So maybe that's what happened to that poor guy who got. Gets locked by PJ or whatever that guy's name in the. In the electric chamber or whatever. So I. I don't know. It was just so weird. It was just like something that wasn't even, like, brought up until half an hour before the show ends ends up being sort of the solution to the whole thing. So it just. It kind of felt like it came out of nowhere, because it did. There's also, like, why, like, why doesn't Wick remember this stuff? Like, yeah, Wick's got to be old enough to.

[Sugar Bee Apple Advertiser]

He's.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

He's only 24.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Toby Ball]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's like, why. Why isn't anybody else on?

[Kevin Flynn]

He's a widow's bay. 24.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Toby Ball]

There's a lot of old people in this thing. Like, why doesn't Rosemary be like, oh, yeah, we used to sacrifice people all the time. We just pick people out. So I don't know, that whole thing. You've got a team of writers working on something. Why do you feel like you don't need to foreshadow this at all? There doesn't have to be any clues along the way that then you're like, oh, shit. That's why that happened. There's none of that. It's just like, oh, I found this video that happens to be out this thing that's going to explain something that's going to happen in 20 minutes that's going to end this season. It seemed a little cheap, to be honest.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

One of the things I think that got a lot of love in this series was Lost, you know, the idea of a haunted island or cursed.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, the TV show Lost. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

There's a lot of Lost references in this, including a random video that's just like a Dharma Initiative.

[Kevin Flynn]

It's like the Dharma Initiative. It completely is.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

We were like, did you notice that?

[Kevin Flynn]

I 100% noticed that.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Yeah.

[Toby Ball]

Their sacrifice is our survival.

[Kevin Flynn]

The bad times will not end until the covenant is honored and honored fully, life for life.

[Toby Ball]

The island will make its needs known. One soul for each Bell Tour.

[Kevin Flynn]

But the good thing about that is that it really sets up, you know, the second season, but turns it in sort of a little different direction here. I don't know if, like, we're supposed to believe that perhaps what the island. What they've been doing with the island is sort of sacrificing people so to. To satiate it or whatever. Like, there's this whole other thing which isn't just find the sea captain and, you know, drive a stake through his heart or something like that. So it's basically setting up a second season as being sort of a different problem to solve or a different kind of conflict, using sort of the same setup. But the whole idea here of finding, like, this old. This old, you know, rotten film. That's interesting. I also did love the Community Access TV shows.

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, those are funny that they showed

[Kevin Flynn]

this guy just walking away.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

The show. In the show.

[Kevin Flynn]

The show. In the show. Yeah. It's fantastic. So, yeah, I definitely saw. I saw that. I saw a lot of Stephen King stuff, the slasher stuff. And I like the idea that it did bounce around a little bit. So it wasn't 10 episodes of the Sea Hag or whatever.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Oh, God. I'm able to watch it.

[Guest/Panel Member (possibly a recurring guest or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

You know, it's like, unlike welcome to Derry, which is, you know, all those episodes around Pennywise the Clown and all that situation. It did happen. And Lara's like, no fucking way. Right. For a hot minute, I thought we might do that one, Lara. But you can say thank you.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

No.

[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

Hell, no.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Hell, no. The opening scene is like a murderous baby that flies around a movie theater, killing everybody.

[Kevin Flynn]

That's the end. The opening scene in the car, anyway, that's a whole episode.

[Laura Bricker]

I watched the first episode of it, and then I said, yeah, no, Tapped out.

[Kevin Flynn]

All right. Just side note here, I'm just gonna say this and then we can move on that. When I watched the first episode of welcome to Derry, I watched it on demand, and I picked this show and apparently I picked the one that had the sign language interpreter in the corner.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

And I could not get it to stop.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

No. And you thought it was part of the show.

[Kevin Flynn]

I thought it was part of the show because all of a sudden you have a guy just sort of standing in the corner there and that he's doing like all the sign language stuff, like creepy music.

[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

Creepy music.

[Kevin Flynn]

Which is. And I was like, apoplectic then I'm

[Laura Bricker]

like, this is ruining for me.

[Kevin Flynn]

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[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

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[Rebecca LaVoy]

All right, let's let our listeners know should they check out Widow's BAE on Apple tv. Laura Bricker, thumbs up or thumbs down for Widow's bae?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, this is a thumbs up for me. This was a really fun summer watch. Once I got past being really scared in the earlier episodes and like hiding under my blanket for certain scenes, I, I wasn't sure I was gonna be able to continue to watch this show. And then I kept going and then I, I could not wait for new episodes to drop every week because it was, it's like nothing that you can really compare. It's, it's, you know, it's mystery, it's horror, it's cozy mystery. There's humor in it, which doesn't seem like any of this should go together. It does. There's Matthew Rhys. And anything that Matthew Rhys is in is something that I am going to watch, much like Rebecca. And it was, had this very New England feel to it. It felt like it could have been somewhere off the coast of Maine in like a Stephen King story or something. You know, it was just, it was a fun watch. It was like a fun summer watch that a lot of my friends were watching as well. So it was something that was good for conversation. And, you know, I think there could be a season two. I don't know how I feel about that. I feel like it could have just wrapped up in season one, but overall it was not like anything else in terms of fitting this into a box in the type of genre that this show was packaged and sold as. So it is a thumbs up for me.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Toby Ball. Thumbs up or thumbs down for Widow's Bay?

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, I mean, this just didn't do it for me. I, you know, this is kind of, even though it's like got a horror aspect to it, it's kind of light entertainment, I kind of feel. And that's, that's kind of hard to like go deep and critique in some ways because I think you end up taking it more seriously than it takes itself. And that's kind of weird, but it just didn't work for me. I like the first three episodes and then it just kind of seemed to fall apart for me. I, I just, just stuff didn't really make sense. Like I couldn't follow, like how things tied together and I felt like it was never really explained. So anyway, I, I just, by like episode seven or eight, I was just like all Right. I guess I gotta watch the rest of this for this show, but I had pretty much lost interest. So, yeah, I'm a thumbs down. I realize I'm the only thumbs down among us, but the idea that there's gonna be a second season of this does make me look to next summer with a sense of I'm gonna have to watch 10 more hours of this or whatever.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Only if Kevin makes you.

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, well, I get the feeling that's probably gonna happen.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Kevin Flynn.

[Kevin Flynn]

I am a thumbs up for Widow's Bay. Yeah, I liked it. I mean, I thought it was a really great balance of, like it says, comedy and horror. It's unlike anything that's on tv and I can't really find, you know, a historical peer to it. It has, like, the best of the scariest episodes of the X Files. And also mixed in with the Office or Parks and Rec for its comedy of. Of manners. I think Matthew Reese is just so really good in this I. The world building. I loved it. I'm glad I didn't understand all of it. I'm glad they didn't reveal every single thing about it. But as far as, like a horror, it's not like it's not slasher. If you, if you're not good with tension and suspense, maybe you won't like it. But I think that, you know, the laughs and because it's not gory, it's not violent, I think I can't think of, like, anything other than, you know, sort of the. The peril that comes with supernatural events. I think pretty much it's a fun, fun watch for me. I laughed, I screamed, I asked, jump scared. I jumped scared. I chuckled. I am not going to pick up weird hitchhikers or, you know, go out in a fog, but I'm looking forward to the next season of Widow's Bay. Thumbs up.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

I'm giving a thumbs up too, in no small part because one of my two favorite television actors is in this show, Matthew Rhys. And as far as I'm concerned, he can do very little wrong. Of course, his wife, Keri Russell is one of my other two favorite. One of my other favorite television actors is like number two or number one over him. I don't know. They're the same. They're great. One of the great things about this show is that a lot of people started watching the Americans because this was their first thing that they'd seen Matthew Reese in because this is so popular. And they're like, what else has this guy been in? So they started watching the Americans. And now there's all this social media discourse about the Americans, which is, in my opinion, my favorite show in television history. I love the Americans. I think it's perfect from start to finish, and I think that Matthew Reese and Keri Russell are perfect in it.

[Kevin Flynn]

You remember the jump scare I had in the.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Oh yeah, it was an incredible scene in the American. The kid walks in on them doing the nasty. So, so good. But I also like the show because of the way I watched it and I'll just share my secret. I know I've said this in the show before. When there's a show that's going I know is going to be scary. I read the recap of the episode before I watch the episode because I am so a bundle of nerves about knowing at some point I'm going to be scared that I want to diffuse that and know when it's going to happen so I can enjoy the other parts. And that's how I do it. And I highly recommend it if you don't like suspense. I knew when I had to leave the room I was like, kevin, hit pause. I'm leaving for this part. Or there was a whole episode where I was like, I know I can't really watch this one, so you can tell me what was good about it tomorrow, but I know what happens. And nope, nope, nope. But I love it when a show makes me do that because it's like the parts that I knew I could see, I really wanted to see. So. And the other thing that I love about the show, I love the atmosphere. I love the deep New England ness of it. It's a hard thing to capture. And because the show was entirely filmed here, it looks like it and feels like it. And so kudos for them for that. All right, now it's time for my favorite part of the podcast, a little something I like to call the Crime of the week. Two people in Kentucky have been arrested with a bag full of drugs labeled definitely not a bag full of drugs. The Laurel County Sheriff's Office says the pair were spotted in a suspicious car in a parking lot. When he stuck his head through the window, the deputy noticed of a ton clear plastic bag that appeared to contain narcotics. He then discovered a second one with an elaborate design spelling out definitely not a bag full of drugs. Despite the clever attempt at misdirection, authorities were not fooled. Novelty bags and purses with transgressive sayings have been popular items. Things like, quote, not stolen office supplies or bag full of tampons or my last given Fuck. It's not clear whether this was a custom creation, but they did spell definitely with two Fs and no Ls. The two people were arrested on outstanding warrants. They face possible narcotics charges in the future. So panel a bag which says definitely not a bag full of drugs is a little too on the nose. What is the next criminal? Dead giveaway. Police will come across Lara Bricker.

[Laura Bricker]

They are going to come across the 5 star Yelp reviews for this pair that are like 5 stars. Great product, great dealers to work with.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

What about you, Toby? What is the next criminal? Dead giveaway. Police will come across a bag that

[Toby Ball]

says drugs I am holding for a friend.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

What about you, Kevin?

[Kevin Flynn]

It's the special they have at Home Depot which includes shovels and tarps and

[Rebecca LaVoy]

lime and definitely does not say not a murder kit.

[Kevin Flynn]

Not a murder kit.

[Toby Ball]

Yes.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

All right, that's gonna do it for us. But before we go, Laura Bricker, do we have a Cat of the Week this week?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, this came into me on instagram through the DMs from one of our listeners, Jen Edwards. And Jen is sending along a picture of her cat, Meeple. Unfortunately, Meeple died a couple weeks ago after having a brain tumor. It was very unexpected and sudden. Jen took her in for an upper respiratory infection that wasn't responding to medication. A week later, Jen lost her dad, who she would also like to nominate for Cat of the week because he's the best. So Meeple was an all black cat except for the tip of her tail. She meeped every time you touched her head. She was perfect. And Meep is a very cute little black cat. I'm sorry, Jen, about your cat and your dad. That's two hard losses back to back and we will be thinking of you here.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

All right, Laura Bricker. Folks want to reach out to you on social media to submit any kind of animal to be Cat of the Week. How can they find you online?

[Laura Bricker]

You can find me Arabricer on Instagram and Bluesky and Toby Ball.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

You live in Spain, so folks can't follow you around in person. But where can they follow you on

[Toby Ball]

the Internet to weball603 on Instagram.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

What about you, Kevin? How can you be found?

[Kevin Flynn]

I'm Kevinp Flynn. You can follow the P stands for paranormal.

[Rebecca LaVoy]

Oh my God. You can follow me everywhere, including X. Yep, I'm still there at Reb Lavoy. You can follow the show everywhere at Crimewriters on. We make a shit ton of stuff on Patreon and you can get it at patreon.com partnersincrimedia our theme song was composed and performed by Tyler Gibbons and this show was executive produced and edited by Kevin Flynn. This show was recorded in Studio C, the closet in our New Hampshire basement, where we also say stories of historic local cannibalism are greatly over exaggerated. On behalf of all the crime writers, thanks so much for listening. We will catch you later. But they did spell definitely with two Fs and no Ls the two people no I it doesn't matter. It doesn't fucking matter. No one knows.

[Angie Hicks Advertiser]

Partners in Crime Media Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie From Roof Repair to Emergency Plumbing and More. When you use ANGIE for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at angie. Combination.