My Mother's Lies

Summary

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Crime Writers On...

Episode: My Mother's Lies
Date: June 8, 2026
Hosts: Rebecca Lavoie, Kevin Flynn, Lara Bricker, Toby Ball
Subject: Review and discussion of the podcast My Mother’s Lies

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Crime Writers On team reviews My Mother’s Lies, a true crime podcast from Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard. The show explores the story of Susan Galbreath, a Kentucky housewife turned citizen sleuth who became famous for helping crack the Jessica Curran murder case—which ultimately led to the conviction of Quincy Cross. But Susan's own son now claims she manipulated the case and sent the wrong man to prison. The panel considers the ethics of citizen sleuthing, compares this retelling to previous work on the case (Bone Valley Season 3), and debates the implications for true crime storytelling and criminal justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Premise and Framing of the Story

• My Mother’s Lies focuses on the role Susan Galbreath played in solving a cold case murder, while her son claims her lies contributed to a wrongful conviction.
• The panel notes the show’s title suggests the son's voice (Rhae) would be central, but he actually has a limited presence.

“The title implies that the point of view is going to be Rhae’s. Right. And he is, like you said, an important voice in episode two and six. ... We get this sort of promise implied in the title and this just might be a mistake of marketing and positioning.” – Kevin Flynn (09:35)

• Lara Bricker highlights how the lack of the son as a narrative center is a missed emotional opportunity:

“Having more of him in the story would have given us more of a, you know, central focus to root for.” (08:20)

2. Comparison to Previous Coverage (Bone Valley Season 3)

• Panelists draw strong comparisons to Bone Valley 3, Maggie Freeling’s investigative look at the same case:

  • Toby Ball: “Bone Valley Season three... was my favorite podcast from last year in our top 10. ... the potential for [My Mother’s Lies] just falling flat is pretty high. ... It just kind of feels like an inferior telling of the same story for, like, I don’t know, 70% of the podcast.” (12:32)
  • Kevin Flynn: “What’s different here is that My Mother’s Lies is much more linear where Bone Valley 3 is really more investigative and advocacy coded.” (14:51)

• My Mother’s Lies primarily recounts known facts, with some new perspectives, but the overlap is significant for returning listeners.

3. Citizen Sleuthing & Susan Galbreath

• Susan’s role is scrutinized—not just as an amateur investigator, but as someone whose meddling possibly derailed justice:

  • Laura Bricker: “Susan lands on the really far end of the spectrum in terms of not reliable citizen sleuth. And then not helpful. … You look at the damage that has been done in this case, and it’s so muddied.” (28:07)

• The panel questions law enforcement’s willingness to trust and collaborate with Susan, especially given her possible ulterior motives.

“The idea that actual law enforcement people were willing to as well. It’s mind boggling. I just don’t understand it.” – Toby Ball (18:59)

4. The Influence of Tom Mangold

• British journalist Tom Mangold's involvement is described as both enabling and buffoonish, highlighting the odd partnership between him and Galbreath for publicity and personal gain.
  • Toby Ball: “It sort of feels like something with, like, Ben Stiller and somebody, you know, would be in a movie about these guys because they seem like clowns.” (17:14)

5. Narrative Strength and Host Delivery

• Beth Karas (host of My Mother’s Lies) gets good marks for clear, competent narration and legal insight:
  • Kevin Flynn: “Beth actually does a really good job here... she came in and added those perspectives at the right times when the audience needs to know something.” (38:52)
• However, the storytelling lacks the emotional depth and personal investment that Maggie Freeling brought to Bone Valley.

6. Systemic Failure and Aftermath

• The group reflects on how Susan’s actions—and the authorities’ inattention to due process—have made it nearly impossible to correct the wrongful conviction.
  • Laura Bricker: “It's so frustrating because these cases take years and years and years to get the work done… the investigation can take months, and then it’s years and years and years to undo this.” (36:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She needed some energy, Toby, to keep going on this investigation. Just pop a little meth. Keep going.” – Laura Bricker on Susan’s rumored drug habit (18:54)
• “I think there is a thing that happened with Susan... she may have gotten involved in this to help her friend or girlfriend out or whatever with her son. ... Then I think she got really high and addicted to the control and power.” – Rebecca Lavoy (33:19)
• “She’s dead. So like. Great, Susan, I hope you’re rolling over in hell right now, Susan.” – Rebecca Lavoy, with the panel in dark humor (30:59)
• On the intricacies of the case: “The belt. When Jessica Curran, from my understanding, was not killed by a belt, but Toby does wear a belt with his sweatpants.” – Rebecca Lavoy (34:40), triggering Toby’s explanation of the story’s unreliable details.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| MM:SS | Topic / Segment | |---------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 06:16 | The basics of the case and Susan Galbreath's role | | 08:20 | Panel on the podcast’s promise vs. delivery | | 12:32 | Comparing My Mother’s Lies to Bone Valley 3 | | 16:32 | Tom Mangold’s involvement and dynamic with Susan | | 28:07 | Discussion of citizen sleuthing & law enforcement | | 33:19 | Motivations behind Susan's actions—attention, power | | 36:36 | Reflection on the difficulty of post-conviction relief| | 38:52 | Evaluation of host Beth Karas’s narrative approach | | 42:52 | Thumbs up/down reviews by the panel |

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Panel’s Final Verdicts

• Laura Bricker: Thumbs up. Solid, straightforward, but “rage-inducing”—especially for defense workers. Appreciates new details from the Galbreath family perspective.
• Toby Ball: Thumbs up, but only after listening to Bone Valley 3. Suggests viewing this as a companion piece for additional angles.
• Kevin Flynn: Mild thumbs up. Prefers the Bone Valley approach, but says My Mother’s Lies is concise and engaging for those new to the story.
• Rebecca Lavoie: Mild thumbs up. Notes good storytelling and responsible inclusion of Maggie Freeling as context, but critiques the podcast’s discoverability and marketing.

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Additional Notes

• Panelists digress into the difficulties of finding the show on different platforms due to the way The Binge distributes their podcasts (44:20).
• The “Crime of the Week” is introduced in a humorous segment that shifts the episode’s mood after a heavy discussion (49:59).
• Engaging group banter and dark humor thread through the episode, keeping the tone conversational despite serious subject matter.

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Summary

The panel finds My Mother’s Lies to be a competent, engaging true crime podcast—though less revelatory than Bone Valley 3, and best approached as a summary or companion piece rather than a primary source. The story exposes the dangers of unchecked citizen sleuthing, underscoring systemic flaws in law enforcement and judicial process. Despite its shortcomings (overlap with earlier work, muddled title, and platform confusion), the podcast offers valuable perspectives and prompts a lively debate about journalistic ethics and the true cost of getting it wrong in criminal investigations.

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Transcript

[Rebecca Lavoy]

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[Rebecca Lavoy]

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[Kevin Flynn]

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[Rebecca Lavoy]

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[Kevin Flynn]

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[Kevin Flynn]

writers on after show right now go to patreon.com partnersincrime I'm Rebecca Lavoy and

[Rebecca Lavoy]

this is Crime Writers on. Crime Writers on is the original True Crime Review podcast that takes in a true crime pop culture. Other podcasts and on this episode she was the citizen sleuth celebrated for cracking a cold case and nabbing a killer. But her son says Susan Galbreath had an ulterior motive and sent the wrong man to prison. We'll talk about the podcast My Mother's Lies from Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard. Joining me to get that done and more is True Crime author, TV journalist and host of these Are Their Stories podcast. My husband and the love of my Life. It's Kevin Flynn. Hello, Kevin.

[Kevin Flynn]

Hello, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Also with us, private investigator, certified pet detective, resident cat lady, and author of the Final Curtain, it's Laura Bricker. Hi, Laura.

[Laura Bricker]

Hey, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

And finally, our captain of all things cynical, author of the City trilogy, host of Rip Current, More like Ancient Strange Arrivals, and our Patreon Deep Dive Book Club podcast, it's Toby Ball. Hola, Toby.

[Toby Ball]

Hey, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

So, Kevin.

[Kevin Flynn]

Mm.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

This is Monday's program.

[Kevin Flynn]

It's Monday. Happy Monday.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

What's coming up on Thursday's show?

[Kevin Flynn]

On Thursday, we'll be talking about season two of A Good Girl's Guide to Murder, which could be the name of this podcast. Yeah, okay.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Well, maybe she's good girls, though.

[Kevin Flynn]

Okay, okay. Good girls.

[Laura Bricker]

She says we're good. Yes, we're good women.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Exactly.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, all right. Sure. Yeah.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Menopausal girls.

[Laura Bricker]

Perimenopausal. Menopausal women.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Not Perry, man, I'm in.

[Laura Bricker]

You might be in, too. I'm on the HRT, so.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yeah, dude, I'm 52, you know?

[Kevin Flynn]

So you cannot relate to Pip, and Pip will not relate to you.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Not only is Pip 18, but she looks like she's 11.

[Kevin Flynn]

The actress is in her early 20s.

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, the only reason I can relate to Pip is that. And she kind of stole this from me. She's driving the Volvo station wagon, which is what Piper Green drives in my books.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

They definitely stole the Volvo.

[Laura Bricker]

So they were on. They knew I was onto something.

[Kevin Flynn]

What do I think?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, they knew I was onto something with that Volvo.

[Kevin Flynn]

Well, that's Thursday's show. Good Girl's Guide to Murder, Season 2.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

So, Toby, it is Monday morning, as this show is coming out.

[Toby Ball]

It is.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I want you to fast forward in time to Monday morning, Eastern Standard Time. Where do the Knicks stand in the NBA Finals? As of this show coming out. What are your predictions? We've only had game one so far because.

[Toby Ball]

Right. So it's 10 Knicks as we tape. And then they're playing tonight as we tape. So, people, this is Dropout Monday, so it's probably 1 1. I don't know. I wasn't feeling so good about the Knicks when it started, but after game one, like, a lot of the things I was worried about didn't seem to really play that big a part. So we'll see what happens. It's all about adjustments.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

It's not a sports podcast. Yes, it's not a sports podcast. But I will say I made the biggest mistake of my life and went to bed during the third quarter. Cause I was so Tired. I was so tired.

[Toby Ball]

I was up.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I know.

[Toby Ball]

It was fucking four in the morning. I was up.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I know, Dobie, now you're living.

[Toby Ball]

It was a rough 36 hours. I don't know if we're talking about this in the after show. Maybe we are. I don't know.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

The one thing I just want to say, and this is why, like, I know we said this before, Jalen Brunson, who's like. Everybody's like, favorite nick is like, 5 11. I'm not kidding. He says he's 6 1, but that's, like, in sneakers on picture day, right? Like, he is 5 11, and he's in great shape. Don't get me wrong. But compared to the other guys, he looks like he has a dad bod.

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, well, he's. Yeah, he's chunky.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

They had a guy who's 74 on his purse.

[Laura Bricker]

Like.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Like, it's just. It's just. I know it's a different position or whatever, but it's just, like, wild. Like, looking at these two teams, one of them looks like a guy, a bunch of guys playing pickup basketball who've known each other for. And one of the teams looks like what you would imagine an NBA championship team would look like with a center who's 7 4. And it's incredible. It's just incredible to watch. I don't know. I really like it.

[Toby Ball]

When we were doing the deep dive, I was asking Sarah Debunting if New York was alive with Knicks fever. She said, actually, it's pretty insane.

[Kevin Flynn]

Anyway.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

All right, Kevin.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yes.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Now that we know The Knicks are up 2 0. Yeah, that's my prediction. That's your prediction. Would you like to talk about the podcast we're supposed to be talking about?

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah, let's do that.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

All right, leading off, we know there's

[Laura Bricker]

a large and passionate audience for true crime stories, especially for the victims. But the action of one person in this story takes that passion to a whole other level. An incredibly dangerous level.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

After a 2000 murder case went cold, Kentucky housewife Susan Galbraith did her own snooping. With the help of cooperative cops and a British journalist, she identified Quincy Cross as Jessica Curran's killer. Quincy got a life sentence, and Susan became a local hero.

[Laura Bricker]

Over the following years, Susan's incredible story continued to gain attention. The hero housewife who solved a murder. The tale of an ordinary woman pursuing the great American dream. The idea that if you work hard enough, want it badly enough, you can achieve greatness.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

But in a story already filled with inconsistencies, and recantations Susan never disclosed the original prime suspect was her friend's son. Now Susan's own son is stepping forward with new evidence saying her mother's tales should not be believed.

[Toby Ball]

Well, it's because I went through everything, you know, I, like, I had all this stuff on the, on the walls and like, the yarn that was going from this to that. As I started looking into her stuff and started realizing, like, this wasn't the case, I was learning in real the lies.

[Kevin Flynn]

There was a lot of lies.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

From Message Heard and Sony Music Entertainment comes the podcast My Mother's Lies. Host Beth Caris explains how Galbreath and her enablers reshaped the investigation, diverting attention from one suspect to another. It asks whether money, recognition, and self preservation drove a citizen sleuth to knowingly put the wrong man in prison. Spoiler alert. We're going to be talking about plot points from My Mother's Lies. So if you want to remain spoiler free, go to the estimated timecode in our show notes for our thumbs up or thumbs down reviews. So, Lara, this podcast is called My Mother's Lies. I don't think we hear a whole lot from the guy whose mother this is that the podcast is named after.

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, we hear from him in the beginning. Why do you think there are so many stories?

[Toby Ball]

Well, because, I mean, there's only logically it's a lie.

[Kevin Flynn]

Was your mom prone to lying? My mom used to tell me, I'm

[Rebecca Lavoy]

going to tell you something, but if

[Toby Ball]

you tell anybody, I'll tell them you're a liar.

[Kevin Flynn]

She would call me a liar if

[Toby Ball]

I told somebody something that she told me.

[Laura Bricker]

And we hear the stories from him about how, you know, she was a teenage mom, you know, he didn't live with her, and, and, you know, different situations. But then it really just turns into a podcast about Susan and Susan's role in this investigation. So I thought initially I'm like, okay, Ray, this son, this is a good character to tell this story from a different perspective than Bone Valley, which is where we've heard this story before with Maggie Freeling. And that's kind of a hook and that grabs you. It's like he gets his mother's journals or his files and you're like, oh, this is going to be his journey of examining that. And it kind of starts off like that, but then it really just segues into more of a traditional true crime style straight telling of this story with Susan at the center without as much of Rhae. And I think having more of him in the story would have given us more of a, you know, central focus to root for. Although, I mean, for the most part I was just raging at Susan's role in this anyway. But I think having sort of an emotional center through Rhae would have been something, you know, that's what we were kind of told we were gonna get, but we didn't get it as much as I thought we were going to.

[Kevin Flynn]

You're right. The title implies that the point of view is going to be raised. Right. And he is, like you said, an important voice in episode two and six. His contributions to both the case and to the podcast are actually kind of limited. So you're right. We get this sort of promise implied in the title and this just might be a mistake of marketing and positioning. Like this is going to be the cool title. And we're not really thinking more about it than this because he's not an active participant in the show at all. It's not like they could have played him up more in the narrative. I just don't feel like he's a major character here. Right. It's interesting that he's got this stuff. And this is one of the things that distinguishes itself from Bone Valley three Graves county, is that this is some information, some material that Maggie Freeling didn't have and I know would like to have had, but it isn't like told from his point of view, which is kind of what we're thinking we're getting. When it's called My Mother's Lies. Even if they called it his mother's lies or whatever, something like that, it's not fatal, but it's the big thing right off the top. We're coming in thinking that he's gonna be the narrator or at least he's gonna be the central focus of this. And it ends up just really sort of telling the story in a very chronological way.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yeah. Cause he doesn't really remember that much from the time. Like he had this not great childhood. Right. And he. It's not like he's saying, wow, I was there when my mother won this award and it was such a great thing. And I was so convinced that he doesn't really have that. He doesn't really have a relationship with the story in that way. So it's not like he's contrasting something he believed his whole life to something he suddenly discovered.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah. I mean, he's not actually shit talking her, Toby. But like when he comes in, in episode two and is willing to talk, you know, not nice. Not nice. He's not talking nice about her, but to. Yeah, but to say basically, like, she's shouldn't be trusted for a lot of this shit. You're like, okay. He establishes something for himself and for the audience.

[Laura Bricker]

Well, I also think it was helpful because we didn't hear as much, I don't feel like, about Susan's sort of background in terms of, you know, that he thought she was getting paid money for her information to the police, and she needed money, and we were. I think when I listened to the other podcast, I didn't think of her necessarily as being in that position where this was a financial gain for her to be inserting herself in this investigation. It was more of, like, a status symbol for her.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Right. This sounds more like it maybe was defeated. Drug habit is kind of what I gleaned from this podcast. So, Toby, we have heard this story from another perspective before. Was it difficult for you as it was for me to listen to this and, you know, Maggie actually appears in this podcast a couple of times, but I found it sort of difficult for me to separate the Bone Valley version of this story from this story. As I was listening to it, I kept listening for something maybe new that I hadn't heard before, maybe more new. What do you think? When we've heard something so recently that's so good, and then we get a story like this.

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, it was hard. I mean, Bone Valley Season three, I think, was my favorite podcast from last year in our top 10. So when this thing hit, you know, I mean, I think part of what was intriguing to me about the story is Susan Galbreath. And so when this thing appeared, I was like, well, it's like kind of an addendum to something that was really, really good. So the potential for it just falling flat is. Is pretty high. And so, yeah, I mean, it's tough. Like, you don't want to compare the two necessarily, but especially since they have to spend a decent amount of time going through stuff that has already been covered in Bone Valley just because you need to know the context in which this is all happening and the facts of the case, et et cetera, it just kind of feels like an inferior telling of the same story for, like, I don't know, 70% of the podcast or something or even more. There's just a lot of going through stuff that you've heard better somewhere else to get to a smaller amount of stuff that's kind of new or adds, like, a slightly different lens to look at things for. And for me, that was like, a pretty Big drawback. And there were times when I'm like, is this new? Is this new? Is this new? Because I kept waiting for something to like, to like, kind of pop. And there's some interesting stuff. At times, I think that was tough. If we had listened to Bone Valley season three, I think maybe I would have liked this more. But again, some of it was just a recap of stuff that's been done better elsewhere.

[Kevin Flynn]

Toby, I agree with you. Yeah, it's. We often do things where we have the same case, and it's one is a podcast and one is a documentary or a scripted series or something like that. And so we're never really doing, like apples to apples on these comparisons. And it becomes hard because then you have to sort of try to review one thing for what it is as opposed to the thing that it isn't. So this is one of the few that I can remember where we have two separate podcasts doing the same thing. And I think what's different here is that My Mother's lies is much more linear where Bone Valley 3 is really more investigative and advocacy coded.

[Advertisement Voice]

The story of Quincy Cross as the

[Rebecca Lavoy]

ringleader in this heinous crime is simply

[Advertisement Voice]

not borne out by the evidence.

[Laura Bricker]

And the main witnesses to this alleged

[Rebecca Lavoy]

crime are now all on the record saying they lied.

[Kevin Flynn]

You know, we hear from different people in both of those. Maggie, though, with the way she told the story, she flipped the right cards at the right moment for maximum impact. The whole thing about Susan having some connection to Jeremy didn't come out to like, I don't know, episode four or five or something like that, where it ended up being like a whole big oh, shit moment for us. And Maggie's personal sides were much more intimate. But I think with My Mother's lies, it's always gonna kind of take, like you say, suffer in a head to head comparison. But reviewing it as is, I think it's good and I think it tells the story in a way. If we had never heard Bone Valley 3 and we heard this, I'd be like, oh, that's a really interesting story with some interesting people. And also at the end, we find out, like, there's more to it. We have these hearings, in fact, there's still more going on. So the story continues.

[Laura Bricker]

Well, I think it's a different type of story. I mean, I did think about that as I was listening to this, and I'm like, okay, it's hard to compare something to Bone Valley. Bone Valley was told, I think, more through the lens of the wrongful conviction and the Innocence Project and a different style of investigation. And this one, I, you know, Susan felt like more of the center of this to me. And for me, I was like, rage walking around listening to this. And so, like, Kevin, like, I was like, this is pretty good. It's hard because we have heard the story told in a much different style of journalistic reporting than we're hearing in this.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

So, Toby, Tom Mangold is also a central character in this story. He's the British journalist who I always hear has won a lot of awards. Don't know how that happened with what we hear about in him, his role in this story.

[Kevin Flynn]

I became her news editor. She became my trainee cub reporter. I taught her my trade from the bottom up. Don't chase gossip. Check every reputation check and recheck every fact.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

The untold thing that I always wonder about is what happened to him in the month before he decided to pick up this story and go to the United States. Did he know some sort of disgrace was coming? Or had he been maybe involved in some scandal and was like, I have an opportunity to get the hell out of here and do a whole different story?

[Kevin Flynn]

He was deployed or something.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yeah. It sounds like he'd already had some sort of weird fall from grace, but, like, they're a weird team, right?

[Toby Ball]

It's kind of buffoonish. I mean, it sort of feels like something with, like, Ben Stiller and somebody, you know, would be in a movie about these guys because it's. They seem like clowns, you know, Mangold. I mean, not without help. Like, Mangold being able to get all these law enforcement files, I guess, because he's got a posh British accent or something, but they just turned him over to him. But then, like, they go and they interview people and they have, like, a shtick where Susan, like, pretends like she's a bumbling idiot like Columbo or something. And so, you know, it's. It just feels kind of dumb. And. And then this whole thing about how psyched they are that there's going to be a movie. And he's like, you know, I want Brad Pitt to play me. Or, you know, it's like, come on, dude. Like, have a little self respect. Not to mention the fact that you're literally. You're, like, trying to put this guy in jail for the rest of his life. Like, the idea that nobody did enough sort of background work or looking to see that Susan was friends with Jeremy's mom. And I thought in Bone Valley, it seemed as though they might have Like a sexual relationship or a romantic relationship. And that didn't go into that here.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

But regardless, this was thinner than Bone Valley for sure.

[Toby Ball]

You know, I think it would be pretty easy to deduce that Susan is doing advocacy work rather than, like, straight up, like, neutral investigation. And then, yeah, I guess it wasn't at least clear to me when her methamphetamine use was happening, whether it was happening while this investigation was going on.

[Laura Bricker]

She needed some energy, Toby, to keep going on this investigation. Just pop a little meth. Keep going.

[Toby Ball]

It sort of seemed like Mangold should have known better if he's really this experienced journalist than to kind of put all his eggs in that basket. Except for the fact that he thought it was such a good story that he was gonna be able to make some money off of it, and the idea that actual law enforcement people were willing to as well. It's mind boggling. I just don't understand it.

[Kevin Flynn]

What's not mind boggling is joining us on Patreon True Facts. That's an easy idea.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Business section.

[Kevin Flynn]

Absolutely. Thanks, Toby, for letting me jump on the. For setting me up. That's what we call an alley oop, right? You just throw it up and then I jam it into the basket. If you join [e-mail] partnership, it's also

[Rebecca Lavoy]

called a set in a set. Spike in volleyball.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah, that's a girl sport.

[Toby Ball]

Stay in your lane, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Wow. I'm not taking that out.

[Kevin Flynn]

No. You get exclusive content, including the crime writers on after show. This time, Laura is going to explain her quick getaway out of the country and into someplace sunny and warm.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

She was briefly extradited.

[Kevin Flynn]

Briefly extradited?

[Laura Bricker]

Briefly extradited. One of my attorneys told me there was an upcharge if he had to come get me.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, okay. Well, then we'll. We'll save that for the after show. Other exclusive content include Toby Ball's Deep Dive Book Club podcast. Toby and his panel recently talked about the book Chaos. We also have Married With Podcast, our advice podcast where Rebecca and I answer questions, including one from a listener who wants to know whether she can ever trust herself after a bad relationship. I say yes, unless you are Susan and she's your mom or something like that. Probably shouldn't. Somethings off is Rebecca and Mel's True crime podcast and so much happening.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Lordy, there are tapes, man.

[Kevin Flynn]

There are tapes. I was gonna say, you know, when I wrote the script all about this, you know, there was some Turtle boy stuff, but apparently there's nothing Troopa Proctor's text messages. The rest of them are out.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Not the rest, but a segment. Enough of a segment. Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, my goodness. There are racial epithets that I never heard of before.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Oh, I've heard of them.

[Kevin Flynn]

I. Well, I'm just like my. It's like a thesaurus.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Nobody gets away. No race. No gender.

[Kevin Flynn]

No.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

No ethnicity. Gets away from the silver tongued trooper. Proctor.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah, so.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

And Sean, good.

[Kevin Flynn]

So if you want those hot takes, that's where you go. If you join us at the Bricker scale, you'll get Leave it to Bricker, which is Laura Bricker's podcast where she solves mysteries or release mysteries to her in her quaint AF town of Exeter, New Hampshire. Laura, what's coming up on the next Leave it to Bricker?

[Laura Bricker]

I solved the mystery of my condo board or I don't. I start the investigation into my condo board.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Ah, you don't over promise.

[Toby Ball]

Mm.

[Kevin Flynn]

Just like Pip in A Good Girl's Guide.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

No, she's not to condominium boring.

[Kevin Flynn]

She's not.

[Laura Bricker]

I'm not.

[Kevin Flynn]

For those of you who come in at the let's do what we do level, you get episodes of Crime Writers on early and ad free. And if you're a deep diver, you get all that and you're an exclusive sponsor of Toby Ball's Deep Dive Book club. Toby, recently you talked about a book called the Other side of Prospect. Who was on your panel? You mentioned Sarah Debunting earlier. So who else was there?

[Toby Ball]

Connecticut based journalist Josh Eaton and a member of the extended CWO universe, Mel Barrett.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Nice. She is a member of the CWO extended universe. I love that for her.

[Kevin Flynn]

Those are all ways you can help yourself. By helping us by joining us at Patreon. That's patreon.com partnersincrimemedia.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Is she like our Scarlet Witch?

[Kevin Flynn]

Who?

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Mel Barrett.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, Mel, yes.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yes. I'm trying to think of some extended universe.

[Kevin Flynn]

Like, yeah, maybe Deadpool now that he's getting pulled in.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I don't like Ryan. What's his face.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, okay. Sorry.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

We're not deadpooling that.

[Kevin Flynn]

We're not deadpooling.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

All right, so Kevin does. Thus end our business section.

[Kevin Flynn]

Thus ends the business section.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Let's fade that music out.

[Toby Ball]

Lamine Yamal steps into McDonald's, looks left,

[Kevin Flynn]

sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez, gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner with a FIFA World cup meal. Ronaldinho sees son in the booth.

[Toby Ball]

Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce.

[Kevin Flynn]

He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henri, who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World cup meal. Participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserve 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026 do you love hair

[Toby Ball]

raising allegedly true stories about the paranormal? Then you should summon the podcast Scared to Death. It's the popular horror series with more

[Kevin Flynn]

than 60 million downloads to its name and is co hosted by me, Dan

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Cummins and me, Lindsay, co host and also Dan's wife. Each week on Scared to Death, we share bone chilling tales from old books and creepy corners of the web and even some submitted by our listeners, all designed to make you want to sleep with the lights on.

[Toby Ball]

Think you can handle the horror?

[Kevin Flynn]

Tune in to Scared to Death every Tuesday at the stroke of midnight to find out.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

So, Kevin, who's the sponsor of this fine podcast?

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, we're sponsored by Quint.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Shut up.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah, summer is the perfect time to read. Rethink the clothes that you've been reaching for every day. Take all those clothes that you bought from Quince in the winter, all those nice sweaters. You put them to one side of the closet or in a different drawer and you bring out all of last year's linens. Get the new ones to add to it.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

Rebecca, what? Have you recently purchased quints?

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Well, you know, I love a linen shirt.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yes.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

And I have a couple of Quince linen shirts. The European linen I love. The dark blue with the white stripes is my favorite one. I have a white one. I've got a pink one. I've got a solid blue one. They are the most versatile, cute shirts. I wear it over a bathing suit. I wear it out to dinner. We were on vacation, remember? I wore a linen shirt every day.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yes. Yes. And in fact, for that vacation, you purchased me two pairs of swimming trunks.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yes.

[Kevin Flynn]

Bathing suit, whatever you call it.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yes.

[Kevin Flynn]

And I'll say that, ladies, that if you purchase one for your man, be sure to get the short one. Get the short one. Tell them you're not an 80s surfer. You don't need down to your knees. Look great, look elevated and save money. And by the way, quints is not just about clothing. It's your destination. For elevated essentials across the home, kitchen,

[Rebecca Lavoy]

bedding and beyond, elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, sure. High.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

That's Q, U, I N C E dot com crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com crime

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[Rebecca Lavoy]

Toby Mangold and Susan, they really seem to be psyched that there was going to be like, speaking of cinematic universes, maybe like a whole series of films made out of them.

[Toby Ball]

They were super excited. Yeah, if we were going to have a television series based on the four of us, yeah, I'd probably be pretty psyched. But we're not trying to put anybody away for life in prison to cover up one of our friends kids murderous actions.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

So interesting.

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, we did have that casting that time where we were all like Game of Thrones characters.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

It's really funny you just said that because I know the whole universe doesn't revolve around this, but in the Karen Reid case, Carrie Roberts and Jen McCabe had some text shortly after John O' Keefe's murder about who would play them in the movie as they were maybe trying to put away somebody for the rest of their lives for a murder that maybe one of the sons of one of their friends was involved in.

[Kevin Flynn]

It's a common thing.

[Toby Ball]

It happens. It just happens.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Harry was sure Sandra Bullock would be playing her. By the way, I talked to a

[Kevin Flynn]

detective once who said he was getting an arrest warrant and when the judge like ended up like flipping getting to the end of the affidavit, he's like, I wonder who's gonna play me in the movie.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Oh my God. So Lara, the term citizen sleuth gets thrown around sometimes in derisive ways, sometimes in less derisive ways. And as we know from our many years of covering media, there are different, shall we say, There's a spectrum of citizens luthery. And some of the spectrum is more benevolent and diligent and earnest and Some of the spectrum. Less so. We're also saying they're on the spectrum of citizen sleuthry. Yes. So, Lara, what do you think about where Susan Galbraith might fit on that spectrum of citizen sleuthry?

[Laura Bricker]

I think Susan lands on the really far end of the spectrum in terms of not reliable citizen sleuth. And then not helpful. You know, we've got like. You know, I was thinking about that documentary we would just watched about the guy who took over from Warren Jaffs, and we had the documentary maker there who infiltrated and helped and. And did talk to. Was working with the FBI as the raid was going down. And that was, you know, somebody that was. Okay, yes. Misleading some people so that this could be brought to an end. This with Susan. I. I continue to just be absolutely astounded at the way that the police were like, yes, Susan was one of the team, and, like, we just kept her updated and she was part of everything. And I'm like, I. I don't know what the hell was happening in this state that people that were in law enforcement thought that this woman actually was a credible person to be assisting with this investigation and continue to. Like, when the investigation was taken over by another agency, they continued to work with her. And you look at the damage that has been done in this case, and it's so muddied. And I think that's what's so extremely frustrating, is that you can see how this involvement of this citizen sleuth. And I'm not saying all citizen sleuths are not like, there are situations where somebody can be helpful that has information that is out doing work or, you know, kind of trying to gather information because, you know, people might be more comfortable talking to them instead of to the police or the investigators, and they might be able to gather information that way, and they might have somebody that has a confidence in them and tells them something. In this case, though, it's. It's like the snowball that ran away with Susan in her involvement in the investigation, but now trying to get Quincy Cross and get him out and get his conviction overturned, the work that the Innocence Project is doing to try to do that, it's. It's like there's such a hurdle to overcome because of all this shit that Susan did. And you're like, this is. Clearly, there's. There's a lot going on in this case that didn't happen correctly, but the horse is out of the barn because of this woman, and now this poor guy is kind of just fucked because there's such a narrow window of what information would actually help that case move in another direction, all because of her. And she's not here to speak. And it's just.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

She's what? She's what, Laura?

[Laura Bricker]

Isn't she dead?

[Kevin Flynn]

She is dead, yeah.

[Laura Bricker]

I mean, she's dead. She's dead. So like. Great, Susan, I hope you're resting. Com. No, that's mean. But I'm just saying she's dead.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Great, Susan, I hope you're rolling over in hell right now, Susan.

[Laura Bricker]

Exactly. For what you did. But no, I mean, so she's not here. They couldn't question her. They couldn't see if she had any sort of an awareness about the role that she played in this not perhaps being totally the best direction that things could have gone. And so we're left to deal with the mess that she created.

[Kevin Flynn]

A couple of things there that I don't know if every cop believed her. Right. Was in on it. And some did, certainly. That guy, the state trooper. Yeah. I mean, someone eventually did that. And I think in some of the things, I mean, we heard much more tape from Susan and cops in Bone Valley 3, but there were some that were playing along with her. And you hear that. We do hear the one this time where like she's all affronted by the fact that the guy didn't, you know, the new detective didn't immediately call her. You know, so she's picking up on stuff like that here.

[Laura Bricker]

She's asking the detective to justify why he hasn't called her yet.

[Kevin Flynn]

We had talked about two weeks ago when I talked about Quincy being in town. Right. And that we were supposed to meet that following day. Right. And I never heard from you.

[Toby Ball]

Well, I called.

[Kevin Flynn]

I called between nine and ten o' clock and I probably called three or four times and it was busy. I think we can still have a really great debate about, like, was she doing this for money? Was she doing this for attention? Was she doing this to save Jeremy's ass? But what it comes down to is, was Quincy Cross's rights violated by this investigation? And some of the emails and stuff might show that Susan didn't come to this with clean hands. But I mean, what she ended up doing largely was pointing and getting the cops interested in him and verifying sort of bad information. But it seems certainly more that like those investigators with their coercive techniques pulling weird confessions out of other people at a motel. At a motel, like that stuff that, that seems probably more likely the thing that the judge is going to rule on in fact, the whole thing about they couldn't verify, well, whatever with the emails because she's dead and the, you know, wonderful guy from the BBC won't talk. But I think that as much as Susan is the person driving this shithole of a bus, it's more of what the cops ended up doing themselves that is likely gonna get this conviction overturned and get him a new trial.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I agree. As somebody who has her Ph.D. in Jen McCabe.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I think there is a thing that happened with Susan. This is my theory, that she may have gotten involved in this to help her friend or girlfriend out or whatever with her son. Right. And it was like. And then I think she got really high and addicted to the control and power she felt as a result of being in the middle of this thing. And they're like, hey, Detective Galbraith and whatever. And, you know, I have it on good authority that maybe Detective McCabe is like. It is like a epithet that gets put around. The cops get addicted to getting free information that they don't have to, like, actually, like, work for, but it actually ultimately is on the cops. It's ultimately on the cops for not doing the right thing.

[Kevin Flynn]

Well, there are probably still a lot that, you know, liked, J. I mean, they arrested Jeremy. They're going to trial with Jeremy. Right. There are some cops who would probably have seen her, as the term is a useful idiot. Someone, like, can do this. Like, remember Murder at the U? They're like, well, you journalists can do shit we can't. That's right. That's why you're letting them do it.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Flynn]

Right. So they probably said, let her fuck around.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

And, you know, but then let's not. Then let's trust everything and not verify anything.

[Kevin Flynn]

Exactly.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Like the belt. Right. Toby, that is the weirdest detail I remember. That's from Bone Valley, too. Like the whole how. How this one thing gets inserted into the story and then becomes an integral part of the story. The belt. When Jessica Curran, from my understanding, was not killed by a belt, but Toby

[Kevin Flynn]

does wear a belt with his sweatpants.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yes.

[Toby Ball]

It's like there's a couple things going on, and one of them is, like, the actual sort of effect it has on the case. And it goes from really being like, a detail about the way Quincy was acting at a party that then gets attached to, like, a piece of leather that's found. And it. Eventually, it eventually the theory becomes that. That Jessica was murdered with this belt that is only. Only appears in testimony about the way he was acting at the party. Right. But I thought what was also interesting as sort of a. A look at the way Susan was kind of processing everything in this case is that she, under oath, says that she saw a photo of Jessica's body with a belt around her neck, which, like, clearly did not happen. And I think that's when she gets off and people kind of laugh at her, assuming that she's being sincere in that. And, like, why would you lie under oath about something where people can just be like, here are the three photos, and it's not there. It just kind of shows how she mentally is processing this stuff and coming to believe these things that are just a matter of kind of conjecture to begin with, but then she gets so wrapped up in them that they become not just facts in her mind, but facts that have separate pieces of evidence that support them, and that evidence doesn't actually exist.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Lara, you are a defense investigator. You work with defense attorneys. You also do innocence work. Right. When you hear a story like this, and I granted, I know that process, procedure and venue and all that stuff comes into play when it comes to, like, appellate law and whatever, but when there's so much. So much to show that a conviction was bullshit conviction.

[Laura Bricker]

Right.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

How does that make you feel when you think about, like, you being inside these legal cases, people working on these so hard? I mean, Quincy's still in prison, which is why he's not on this podcast, right?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, it's just. I think that's kind of what I was saying before with Susan. It's so frustrating because these cases take years and years and years to get the work done, to, you know, get to a place where you can either get back in court or have something that's tangible to. To move forward with, whereas the investigation can take months, and then it's years and years and years to undo this. And it's a marathon. It's. It's not a sprint. And hearing all this information about the girls now saying the diary was fabricated, the diary was made up, recanting their statements and seeing that even that doesn't do enough. I really respect the people that do that kind of work because there's not a lot of payoff for a long time, and you're just kind of plodding along and continuing to try to find something that's going to move the needle. And in this case, you know, you have the recanting witnesses, the diary, Susan Galbraith's role in feeding the information. And yeah, some of the police believed her and some of them didn't, but she still meddled in this and had a role in it. You know, we hear that there was going to be this, this hearing for Quincy. And of course you look that up now and you're like, yeah, the judge didn't buy any of this. And that is so frustrating because you're like, okay, what can be done in these situations and how do we all continue to fight the good fight to do something when you see something like this that you know is wrong.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

So, Kevin. Yeah, we've heard a similar story. The same story basically told in similar ways but with different angles with two hosts. Right, Right.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Who's better, Maggie Freeling or Beth Geh.

[Laura Bricker]

Oh, God, that's a trick.

[Kevin Flynn]

They're both good in their own ways.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

That was just a setup for you to be able to read your last note.

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, thank you. Well, I think Beth actually does a really good job here.

[Laura Bricker]

Now, I don't know about you, but listening to the way she speaks to a detective, I'm stunned. What starts as a disagreement turns into a three minute squabble. Susan's sense of entitlement is astounding. And worst of all, from Susan's point of view, anyway, it seems as though Detective Steger intends to do his job, going back to the facts of the case and the original suspects.

[Kevin Flynn]

And I mean, it's a different kind of story. Right. Maggie is more of a, is more doing sort of like this investigative part of it where as Beth is telling, really more of a narrative part. But she also, Beth also comes in, I think, at the right time with her experience and her observations. Having been both a broadcaster, journalist and an attorney and a prosecutor. Like she, she, like when she, she didn't come in, like simply performatively, I didn't think so. I think that she came in and added those perspectives at the right times when the audience needs to know something. Like, this was really weird or can you. You know, I do love when she was like talking about like the documents and saying that like, no one should have those documents. Who's not a journalist. If you're not a cop or a journalist, you shouldn't have those documents. It's like, well, thank you for sticking up for the journalist. But Beth has done other podcasts before. I think that she does really well here. Right. It's a different, you know, again, I don't want to go apples to apples because they're both very good in different ways. And I think that for this kind of story, I think Beth and that British producer, not the one from the BBC, but the one that she was. They did a good job of advancing the story from A to B to C.

[Toby Ball]

Lamine Yamal steps into McDonald's, looks

[Kevin Flynn]

left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez,

[Toby Ball]

gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the

[Kevin Flynn]

corner with a FIFA World cup meal. Ronaldinho sees son in the booth, Son

[Toby Ball]

finds back him going for extra Big Mac sauce.

[Kevin Flynn]

He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A seal by Henri who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World cup meal. Participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 20:26 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 20:26 hey everyone, it's Stavros Halakis and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, Stavi's World. Each week we're joined by great guests like Josh Saf, the Eric, Andre, Caleb Heron, and more. It's sort of an interview show, but really we're just messing around, making each other laugh. And hopefully making you laugh while you're washing the dishes or grocery shopping or out on a long drive. Plus, I take listener calls where we have honest conversations about dating, life and everything in between. Imagine if your therapist was a vulgar degenerate whose office was in a Greek diner. No scripts, no polish, and absolutely no holding back. Listen to Stavi's World Wherever you get

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[Kevin Flynn]

it's nice to have a partner who can help you make the most of your journey. A partner like the Loves Rewards app? With Love's Rewards along for the ride, you save 10 cents on every gallon of gas every time you fill up at Loves and up to 25 cents on every gallon of auto diesel. That's why it's the best fuel discount program on the road. Download the app today, then watch those savings add up mile after mile. Love's Rewards Save and earn at every turn. Terms apply. Not available in all states.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

All right, let's do what we do. Let's let our listeners know should they check out My Mother's Lies Laura Bricker, Thumbs up or thumbs down for the podcast My Mother's Lies?

[Laura Bricker]

Yeah, I'm going thumbs up with this one. This is the second time we've heard this story, and we talked a lot in our review about comparing the two styles of telling the story. Overall, though, for me this was, you know, more of a straightforward true crime podcast about a case that's been taken on by the Innocence Project in Kentucky and a citizen sleuth. And I think this is a story that highlights the dangers of citizen sleuths being involved in investigations and how that can snowball into situations that are then years and years in the undoing, if they're even able to be undone. And this is definitely rage inducing for me to listen to as somebody that works in the defense field. But also we have some added background about the citizen sleuth through a family member this time that we didn't have in the other telling. You know, I think this had more of a, you know, reporting style of telling the story rather than going undercover, investigating and redoing the investigation. But at the same time, I think it had a very good overview of this case, how it landed, where it did. And, you know, if only some of the players that were involved were still around to be interviewed, it would have taken it to another level. But overall, I, I think this was really, you know, for what it was. I think this was good. So this is a thumbs up for

[Rebecca Lavoy]

me, Toby Ball, thumbs up or thumbs down for My mother's Lies?

[Toby Ball]

Yeah, this is a little bit of a hard one because I think what I really want to say is why don't you listen to Bone Valley Season three, which I think is a better telling of the general story, and then listen to this afterwards to get sort of a slightly different take and sort of focusing a little bit on other parts. The only other thing I would say is I do think, and maybe I'm just forgetting because Bone Valley had all this other stuff, the pairing of Tom Mangold and Susan Galbraith. I guess there's no really funny moments in this, but sort of the mental picture of them working together on this stuff and sort of the aftermath of it is so weird and kind of buffoonish that it would make a good dark comedy.

[Kevin Flynn]

I think you mean the giant case of cheap Sauvignon Blanc that he had to buy as soon as he got to America.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yeah. Kevin Flynn.

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah, I guess I'm a thumbs up on this. Really hate to compare it directly to Bone Valley because it's a different kind of telling. One of these podcasts is a noun and one is a verb, and Bone Valley three is more of a story through an investigation. This one is a much more linear telling. I think that it's more concise. You're not going to hear about somebody talking about their mother's lies, despite what the title says. That was kind of a poor choice, I think. However, you know, what we have inside this package here is a pretty good, engaging, straightforward telling of a true crime story. And there's still more to this case. The system manipulates people, and the people also know how to manipulate the system. This is a great example of that. So whether or not you've listened to Bone Valley 3, and I agree with Toby, you should, this might actually be the one to listen to first because you kind of get the overview of the story, you know, much more concisely. And then you can go down to, you know, the quincy Cross Story 2.0. So anyway, for me, I like it. It's a thumbs up. I didn't hate it.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I didn't hate it either. It's a mild thumbs up for me, too. I just. I have, like, a thing I want to say about the distribution of this podcast and the marketing around it. So the binge is a channel, right? The binge is like a network. Less. Less sort of a collection of podcasts made by different, you know, companies in collaboration or whatever. And if you go to the binge channel on Apple podcasts, which I think where most true crime podcast listeners listen to stuff, there's like this whole catalog of individual stories you can listen to. You can't find My Mother's Lies in that catalog with individual pictures. Where you can find this podcast is in a feed called the Binge Cases. And this is like season 20 in that. But because of the way they've distributed it and marketed it. When you search for My Mother's Lies on Apple podcasts, you get like about a hundred results because they've feed, dropped this episode into episode one or whatever, into all of their, like 500 feeds. So you can't find this show. You click on one, you're like, oh, that's not it. That's just a trailer for it. Oh, that's not It. So the binge, you need to get your act together with regard to your distribution. Because if you're not gonna make a separate tile and a separate feed, my recommendation would be to, even if you're putting it in the binge cases, still put it out as a separate feed. Maybe you intend to do that in the future. But this was impossible to find. Kevin was like, this is what we're listening to. And I was like, I can't find it. I found a hundred things that say it's that, but it's. None of them are that anyway. So it's a kind of a sloppy channel in that way. That being said, this is a decent podcast. I'm okay with being told the same story by two competent people in two different ways. The issue is you're comparing Beth, who's great, to Maggie Freeling, who is outstanding, and Maggie Freeling, you know, she definitely has more. Well, she's a journalist we trust, which is why she can bring herself into stories and tell us what she thinks about it and tell us how she feels about it. Stuff which is not traditionally upheld as like the greatest journalistic practice, but she's sort of invented this brand of journalism where she can do that and we trust her. Right. And Beth just does a very competent job telling the story in a really interesting way. And it's very hard to compare those two things. So, like Beth, I really. One thing I still say I really appreciate was hearing Maggie in the podcast because sort of Beth acknowledging this other body of work existed, I think was important for me to sort of stay in and be like, okay, so we're not just gonna like, tell this as though we're the only and first people who have ever told it. So I think Beth is great. I think the show was pretty good. It wasn't like sparkly didn't have like a sheen to it that, like, I think Maggie brought to her telling of it and that we hear in some other true crime podcasts, like, I can't wait to listen to the next episode kind of thing. But it was good enough. So, yeah, nice work there, Beth. And binge, get your act together with your distribution. All right, now it's time for my favorite part of the podcast, a little something I like to call the crime of the week. A South Carolina police officer has been fired and faces charges after pointing his gun at a fellow cop. It happened inside the Myrtle beach police headquarters. Documents say Detective Michael DiPiasi pulled out his department issued firearm and pointed it at a patrolman. The reason the patrolman was reheating fish in the microwave. Anyone who ever worked in an office knows it's a faux pas to bring last night's scallops or fried haddock to the lunchroom and put it on blast for two minutes. Because it's not like warming up chocolate chip cookies or cinnamon rolls. Nothing will stink up a joint faster than microwaved fish. Dibiase was booked in a detention center and released on bond. He's due in court in August. We think he should take his case to trial because once they find out what his co worker was doing, no jury will convict him. So panel, not to victim blame, but anyone microwaving fish should get a cap in their ass. What's the next inconsiderate thing this patrolman will do in the office? Lara Bricker.

[Laura Bricker]

After he finishes eating the fish, he's gonna sit down at the conference table and start trimming his toenails.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Oh. What do you think, Toby Ball?

[Toby Ball]

I was going to say trimming his toenails, believe it or not. I'll just say I used to work in this office, and this guy who I worked with would microwave ramen noodles every. Every day for lunch, but he also had these packets of dried fish heads, and he would sprinkle the dried fish heads into it, and he would never be there to open up the microwave. So you open up the microwave and you get this, like, sort of ramen soup kind of thing with, like, six little fish heads, like, bobbing on the top, which isn't really an answer to that question. But I was trying to buy time because I thought that toenails was not going to be something that I was going to have a backup for.

[Laura Bricker]

He might go fish a second time.

[Toby Ball]

Yeah. I don't know. It's like using the last of the toilet paper.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

What about you, Kevin?

[Kevin Flynn]

Yeah, he's going to clip his toenails. That's at the conference room table.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Oh, okay. Yeah. That's really your answer.

[Kevin Flynn]

No. And he's gonna leave all those dishes in the sink for someone else to clean. First of all, one of the women, obviously.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

I just want to make it clear that we don't obviously think it's okay for a cop to pull a gun on somebody for some stupid fucking reason or for most reasons. Right.

[Kevin Flynn]

But if it's for fish in the microwave, I can see it.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

That being said, the dishwasher, dish sink, dish, office problem is real. I feel it. So much so that we've, like, created a new job at NHPR where, like, the new assistant to our CEO is not going to have to empty the dishwasher because it's like you see this person who's doing all this important work in there every fucking day.

[Kevin Flynn]

And it's always. It's always dudes and it's always some woman who's like, fuck these dudes. I have to do these dishes.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Exactly. All right, Laura Bricker, if folks want to find you online, how can they find you? Maybe on social media you can find

[Laura Bricker]

me at Larry Bricker on Instagram and Blue Sky.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

What about you, Tobyball?

[Toby Ball]

How can you be found obaugh603 on Instagram.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

What about you, Kevin?

[Kevin Flynn]

I'm at Kevin P. Flinn.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

You can follow me everywhere, including Instagram, @x reblavoy. Follow the show everywhere. Rimewriterson. But mostly you should join our incredible crime writers on Facebook discussion group. It's really fun and everybody's rad. You should also go to our website, crimewriterson.com to get our newsletter. It's free and it is awesome. Get everything we make at [e-mail] partnersincrimedia. Our theme song was composed and performed by Tyler Gibbons and the editor of this program is me, while our EP is Kevin Flynn. This show was recorded in the Caitlin Rogers project studio, also known as Studio C, the closet in our New Hampshire basement, where we also have an entire case of cheap Sauvignon blanc and plastic cups so we can do some serious investigating on behalf of all the crime writers. Thanks so much for listening. We will catch you later. Are you all right?

[Kevin Flynn]

There was no move, but yes, I

[Laura Bricker]

had a moth, so.

[Kevin Flynn]

Laura, a dangerous moth. Yes, a deadly moth. Okay,

[Rebecca Lavoy]

can I talk now?

[Kevin Flynn]

Oh, sure, yeah. Sorry.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

No, I just wanted to make sure because it sounded like you were about to take another breath and say something else. I didn't want to interrupt your flow.

[Kevin Flynn]

Okay, were Quincy Cross. Quincy Cross. Right. Was.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

It's Quincy Jones.

[Kevin Flynn]

Sorry, it's Quincy.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Yeah, it is Quincy Cross. Of course it is.

[Kevin Flynn]

I was joking.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Jesus Christ.

[Kevin Flynn]

All right, sorry.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

Hey, everyone, it's me, Morgan Stewart, and I have a new podcast called the Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life, and just a warning, I'm gonna be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests

[Laura Bricker]

to join in on the fun.

[Rebecca Lavoy]

The Morgan Stewart show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts or watch full video on YouTube.

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