The Crash

Summary

Crime Writers On... | "The Crash" (Netflix Documentary)

Release Date: June 1, 2026
Hosts: Rebecca Lavoie, Kevin Flynn, Lara Bricker, Toby Ball

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Episode Overview

This episode of Crime Writers On... dives into the Netflix documentary The Crash, which examines the high-profile 2022 case of teenager Mackenzie Shurilla, who crashed her car into a building at 100 mph, killing her boyfriend and another passenger. The panel—Rebecca, Kevin, Lara, and Toby—discuss the film's exploration of intent, parenting, social media, Gen Z culture, and the public's reaction, sharing their thoughts on both the case and the documentary's narrative approach.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Case Background and Media Framing

• The panel gives a thorough summary of the case: Shurilla's crash, her claims of amnesia, the prosecution’s allegation of murder, and the documentary’s open-endedness regarding intent.
• The film features interviews with the parents of the three teens and Shurilla herself, allowing viewers to weigh the evidence and motives.
  • Rebecca: "The film invites the audience to draw their own conclusions on whether the crash was intentional and why." [06:28]

2. Parenting Styles and Public Outrage (07:07–13:13)

• A focal point in both the documentary and episode discourse: Mackenzie's parents’ permissiveness and obliviousness.
  • Lara: "There's a generation of kids now that don't really feel like they have a lot of accountability for their actions...the parents are literally excusing everything." [08:09]
  • Rebecca: Shares an anecdote about Mackenzie’s mother admitting her daughter "got in fisticuffs a few times with some teachers." [09:25]
  • Kevin: Notes the contrast among parents and how Mackenzie's parents deflected responsibility. [10:07]
  • Toby: "It's hard to draw a direct line from your parenting style to your child driving a car at 100 miles an hour into a brick wall." [11:43]

3. Trial, Defense Strategies, and Evidence (14:42–18:27)

• Lara, as a defense investigator, critiques the lack of expert witnesses and accident reconstruction during the trial.
  • Lara: "There's a lot that could have been done, and I don't feel like they did...They didn't have any experts. They didn't have any medical experts. They didn't have any crash expert." [14:48]
• Panel reflects on the significance of digital car data (the so-called "black box" evidence) and the use of shoe placement as a potential clue.

4. Role and Misinterpretation of Social Media (26:03–33:06)

• Shurilla’s friend Rosie, an influencer, appears as a main source in the doc, defending Mackenzie and contextualizing her social media presence.
  • Toby: "They're kind of picking these social media posts that make her look particularly ghoulish or violent or arrogant, but there's no context that it's a trend." [27:04]
• Broader conversation about how courts (especially judges or juries unfamiliar with Gen Z online habits) may misread intent or personality through curated social media personas.
  • Lara: "We all know you put your best stuff on social media...So this isn't reality." [29:04]
  • Kevin: "Playing her TikTok clips just shows that she's mostly like other girls, not nice girls...But it does show a lack of good judgment." [31:17]
  • The group agree a jury trial would have been disastrous for Mackenzie due to her affect and curated "mean girl" online persona.

5. Impact of Gender in Public & Legal Perception (33:06–34:24)

• Discussion on the amplified public disdain for "unlikeable" young women on trial versus male defendants.
  • Rebecca: "People love to hate women when they're on trial...it's easy to vilify this young woman." [33:06]
  • Toby: "The public likes attractive female victims and attractive female perpetrators so they can be like, ‘oh, look at that psycho bitch.'” [33:33]

6. The Crash Footage and Forensic Evidence (34:11–35:32)

• The panel marvels at the speed and clarity of surveillance footage; the impact of seeing the car moving at 100 mph is "startling" and shapes public perception.
  • Rebecca: "Isn't that video startling, Toby? Like seeing 100 miles an hour on a residential street, it's hard to comprehend." [34:11]
  • Kevin: "You need 600ft to brake at 100 mph...all of a sudden you realize you got to turn right or left, or you're going to knock the bricks out of that wall." [35:14]

7. The Documentary’s Framing, Objectivity, and Interview with Mackenzie (35:32–38:11)

• The panel notes the editorial choices—particularly the inclusion of scenes subtly (or overtly) eliciting disdain for Mackenzie.
• Mackenzie’s documentary interview is critiqued for being insipid, overly coached, and edited to undercut her authenticity.
  • Lara: "I don't really think I'm hearing anything that’s changing my opinion of any of this...It was a little bit of a cheap shot, the way they edited at the end with her talking to her lawyer." [36:07]
  • Toby: "That little decision…I kind of felt undercut any sense of being completely objective or unbiased." [37:09]

8. The Panel’s Theories: What Really Happened? (38:11–41:44)

• None of the crime writers believe this was truly a premeditated murder.
  • Kevin: "I don't think she decided to, like, drive and intentionally crash into a wall...I don't think it was first-degree premeditated murder. But what she did was absolutely foreseeable." [38:16, 39:57]
  • Rebecca: "I don't think she…said, I'm gonna kill these two guys. I think she was impulsive, mad, having one of her tantrums...[but] I think she has some culpability." [40:00]
  • Lara: Posits the crash resulted from an argument and impulsive escalation rather than calculated intent.
  • Toby: "If she had done that on purpose, she had to have assumed that she was gonna die too. …That seems like the most likely thing." [40:58]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mackenzie's parents’ attitude:
  Rebecca: "One of the first things we hear one of them say—that their 17-year-old moved in with her 20-something boyfriend." [07:44]
  Lara: "The mother was the freaking medical expert...Yeah, okay, you're a doctor, you're a doctor." [09:25]

• On social media and culture gap:
  Toby: "They're singing along to songs that are wildly popular on TikTok at the time...But there's no context that it's a trend." [27:04]
  Kevin: "Playing her TikTok clips just shows that she’s mostly like other girls…But it does show a lack of good judgment." [31:17]

• On the shocking crash footage:
  Rebecca: "Isn't that video startling, Toby? Like seeing 100 miles an hour on a residential street, it's hard to comprehend." [34:11]
  Kevin: "You need 600ft to brake at 100 mph...all of a sudden you realize you got to turn right or left, or you're going to knock the bricks out of that wall." [35:14]

• On true culpability:
  Kevin: "I don't think she was like, well, now I'm going to get you....What she did was absolutely foreseeable, that’s where I come down." [39:57]
  Rebecca: "I think she was impulsive, mad, having one of her tantrums, and didn't know the road was going to end." [40:00]

• On documentary craftsmanship:
  Toby: "It feels like kind of a misogyny amplifier...Is that a noble outcome?" [45:24]
  Rebecca: "Maybe, maybe I'm a mild thumbs up now—I'm thumbs sideways on The Crash. I love seeing the discourse around it, but the actual craft of the documentary, it's a sideways for me." [48:00]

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Thumbs Up / Down Reviews & Final Thoughts [44:08–48:00]

| Panelist | Verdict & Commentary | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Lara | Mild thumbs up: "Body cam footage is powerful; gives access to families; thin on some angles." | | Toby | Thumbs sideways: "Competently made, but feels like a misogyny amplifier; editorial thumb on scale." | | Kevin | Mild thumbs up: "Profile of an odious person, makes you think, even if it’s thin on insight." | | Rebecca | Thumbs sideways: "Thin doc, insufficient exploration of alternate scenarios; still engaging." |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 05:14 – Documentary introduction and overview
• 07:07 – Discussion of parents and family perspectives
• 14:42 – Debate on defense/medical evidence and trial strategies
• 26:03 – Social media’s role and friend Rosie’s significance
• 33:06 – Gendered perception of female defendants
• 34:11 – Reactions to crash footage
• 35:32 – Mackenzie's interview and the documentary’s tilt
• 38:11 – Panel: What do we think really happened?
• 44:08 – Thumbs up/down reviews

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Tone & Style

The episode is witty, irreverent, and conversational, staying true to the hosts' mix of expertise, banter, and pop culture asides. The panel is candid about their own biases and the limitations of both the documentary and their distance from the actual case.

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Summary Takeaway

The panel finds The Crash an engaging but shallow look at a sensational case, thin on nuance and context but provocative in its portrayal of gender, social media, and family dysfunction. The discussion raises broader questions about how true crime media and the courts interpret digital personas, especially for young women, and underlines the public's appetite for judgment over nuance.

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For listeners seeking more context, nuance, or alternate theories, the panel recommends supplementing with further sources—and, as always, approaching this kind of true crime story with a critical, questioning eye.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everyone, it's me, Morgan Stewart, and I have a new podcast called the Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life, and just a warning, I'm gonna be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests

[B]

to join in on the fun.

[A]

The Morgan Stewart show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts or watch full video on YouTube.

[C]

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[D]

To get the crime writers on after show right now, go to patreon.com partnersincrimedia

[A]

I'm Rebecca Lavoy and this is Crime Writers on. Crime Writers on is the original True Crime review podcast that digs into true crime pop culture. Other podcasts and on this episode, two passengers were killed when a teen slammed into a building at 100 miles per hour. Police say it wasn't an accident. It was murder. We'll talk about the Netflix documentary the Crash. Joining me to get that done and more is true crime author, TV journalist and host of these Are Their Stories. My husband and the very handsome love of my life, Kevin Flynn. Hello, Kevin.

[D]

Hello, Rebecca.

[E]

Ooh.

[D]

Yeah, I'm just putting the microphone in a dish.

[A]

I see. I call you handsome and you get all sexy. And Mike, also with us, private investigator, certified pet detective, resident cat lady, and author of the Final Curtain. My favorite person, Laura Bricker. Hi, Laura.

[B]

Hey, Rebecca.

[D]

I went, oh, whoa. Okay, rewind that. Yeah, you're just like Lara's your favorite person besides you. Okay, all right, all right, all right.

[C]

Just love of your life, favorite person. And then that's not leaving a whole lot for me.

[A]

Here we go. Here we go. We'll find out. And finally, our captain of all things cynical, author of the City trilogy, host of RIP Current. More like ancient family and strange arrivals on our Patreon Deep Dive Book club podcast, the sexiest man alive, it's Toby Ball. Hi, Toby.

[C]

Oh, hey, Rebecca.

[A]

Oh, hey. How you doing?

[E]

How are you?

[B]

It's gonna be on the COVID of the magazine.

[A]

Yeah. Toby. In the calendar for crime writers on. Of all the sexiest people on crime writers on. You are months January through July. Kevin is months August through December.

[D]

Can we just alternate? I don't. I don't think, like half a year of one of us.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

The men of crime writers on.

[D]

Yeah, the men.

[C]

The two men.

[D]

The men. That's right. Don't leave, Toby, because then we would be the man of crime. Rider design.

[C]

It would be lot of pressure on you if I leave, but I want

[D]

to ask Rebecca and Toby, have you guys bonded about your newfound similarity?

[A]

What's that?

[D]

How you both love the New York Knicks?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, I've always loved the New York Knicks, but I haven't watched them in years because there's been no reason to. I'm all the fuck in. I'm back on the wagon 100%.

[C]

Like, starting next Wednesday, or I guess it's this Wednesday when people are listening to. This is going to be brutal because I'm going to be having to wake up at like, 2:30 in the morning and be up from like, 2:30 to 5 to watch the games.

[A]

After game four, I turned to Kevin. I was like, I feel like texting Toby and he's like, there's no fucking way.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

I was. He's up. And I was like, there's no fucking way. He's not up right now. He's 100% watching this game.

[C]

I. I did not. I did not watch that live. I was. I was feeling pretty good about the Knicks. The files are going to be a different animal.

[A]

But I know this is not a sports podcast. But, Toby, do you agree with the assessment that this is, like, a specific team that will be talked about in the Future? Like the 97 bulls were talked about

[C]

if they win something? Yeah, I think that's the. The key is winning the championship. But, yeah, it's an interesting collection of personalities and basketball skills and the fact that their best players like this kind of chunky six. One guy who just nobody can stop from scoring.

[A]

And they're generous. They pass all the time. It's very much like they're an incredible game. Yeah. A bunch of them went to college together. Like, it's so good. It's so, so good. All right.

[C]

Yeah, the Villanova guys.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Well, there goes one of my summer recommendations for the after show.

[A]

You can say it again.

[C]

The NBA Finals.

[A]

Yeah. All right, Kevin, So what's coming up on Thursday's program on this podcast?

[D]

And Thursday, we're gonna talk about a podcast, an independent podcast. It's called City of Lights.

[A]

You know, I love me an indie.

[D]

Take an indie.

[A]

People need to make more indies. Indies forever. Just like this show. Which is why you should join our Patreon, because we make a lot of money in this show.

[D]

It's the business section. Three minutes into the P.O. there we go.

[A]

Bing, bang, boom. All right, Kevin, should we talk about the documentary we're here to talk about?

[D]

Yeah, let's do that.

[C]

Now, leading off, radio, there's an occupant inside.

[A]

Send us a squad now. We gotta bust the window out. A small Ohio city was stunned after a teen crashed her car into the side of a building, killing her boyfriend and a backseat passenger. Mackenzie Shurilla said she couldn't remember what happened before she slammed head on into a brick wall at 100 miles per hour, but said the fatal collision was an accident.

[C]

I can see how someone could have some amnesia from the impact of the crash, but the timing just seemed really perfect. I don't understand how your amnesia just lasted the exact right amount of time to not be able to help the police with their investigation.

[A]

Classmates described Shurilla as a spoiled, mean girl whose socials were filled with videos of her expensive taste in clothes, the latest TikTok trends, and clip after clip of her smoking marijuana. Investigators learned her relationship with Dominic Russo was volatile, and details of the crash weren't adding up. They believe the image obsessed teen didn't black out behind the wheel. They thought she drove into the brick wall on purpose.

[C]

Mackenzie had threatened to crash a car with Dominic two weeks before she did. In criminal cases, we call that prior calculation.

[A]

Netflix documentary the crash recounts the 2022 case, examining evidence which suggests the high speed collision was a purposeful act. Featuring interviews with the parents of all three occupants and with Shrilla herself, the film invites the audience to draw their own conclusions on whether the crash was intentional and why. The film looks at how Sharilla's online Persona influenced the narrative around her, raising the question of whether investigators misinterpreted Gen Z culture with motivation for murder. Spoiler alert. We're going to be talking about Plot points from the crash. So if you want to remain spoiler free, go to the estimated timecode in our show notes for our thumbs up or thumbs down reviews. So, Lara.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm gonna get right to the question everyone's talking about about this show.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Can we talk about Mackenzie's parents?

[B]

Oh, wow. We're jumping right in because to me,

[A]

all the discourse I've seen around the show don't give you all a chance to weigh in on this. Like, all the discourse has been about her parents.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Am I a perfect parent?

[B]

No.

[D]

No one is.

[C]

No one is. So, I mean, have I made some

[D]

mistakes with my kids?

[E]

Sure.

[D]

It's life, you know, but she wasn't a bad kid.

[B]

She didn't really need to be disciplined a whole lot.

[E]

You know, she.

[A]

I mean, her worst is her mouth. We meet them in the program and one of the first things we hear one of them say that their 17 year old moved in with her 20 something boyfriend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, they're sort of describing her life. He's clearly a drug dealer. She, like, likes her fancy things and it's like, yeah, she's great. Totally great. And that's to me, like the first, like, what moment? What about you? What was your thought about these parents?

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's hard. You try not to make judgments about people you don't know. But we're in this portion of the podcast.

[A]

I think they invited it by participating in the show. They invited it.

[B]

I'm like, okay. You know, there is a generation, and I hate to sound like I sound like an old person now. There's a generation of kids now that don't really feel like they have a lot of accountability for their actions. And I think this is like the classic example of the parents are literally excusing everything that's happening. And also I feel like, kind of oblivious as to what was actually going on in this relationship. And the fact that there was a lot of toxic behavior going on back and forth and the drug use and the fact that I, I'm just, I'm a little also baffled that they were like, oh, yeah, they were just living together and, you know, and I'm like, wow, just like that, huh? But then listening to the mother's jail calls with her and how she's like. And she's supporting her. It's her daughter. I get that. But at the same time, it sets up where we are now in terms of somebody that has never really had a boundary drawn or any rules enforced. It feels like. And just Kind of been allowed to do what they're gonna do in a way that now they're in trouble. And it's like, oh my God, Mommy, what's gonna happen? And then the mom is the freaking medical expert because they don't even have a medical expert. Like she's the only one who testifies to this whole, oh, she has that pot thing on her foot. And I'm like, yeah, okay, you're a doctor, you're a doctor.

[A]

It's funny, Lara, because like you, I was like. And like Toby often says, like, this is an edit, right? So I was very conscious of the pact. The parents were likely, you know, edited and they can make choices around that. Then the mother went on a podcast on YouTube this past week with somebody that I've met before. She's asked a lot of basic questions. I think there were topics they weren't allowed to ask her about. But one of the questions was, how was she growing up? Like, was she a good kid in school? And the mother was like, yeah, she was. I mean, she got in fisticuffs a few times with some teachers, but with teachers, literally that's what she said. And I was like, oh, maybe this wasn't the edit. Maybe this is actually the best of the quotes they got from these people. Kevin, what did you think about all the parents we saw in this documentary?

[D]

Well, I mean, each of the parents was really so different. I mean, for example, you've got Davion's father, right? And he seems to be the one who's like the most clear eyed about what happened. And you know, I don't want to say like he's the only advocate, but he was, he saw pretty early on he knew the score. And then you've got Dominic's father and I think he's sitting with maybe Dominic's sister at the table. I mean, he just seems kind of lost. Like, I don't, I don't know, I mean he, you know, I mean, he's heartbroken, but he doesn't, he doesn't seem like he's going to be the one leading the charge for some accountability or whatever. But then you've got, you know, MacKenzie's parents and it is like, what the actual fuck do I. Did I make mistakes? Sure I did. But that doesn't really sound like you feel like you're taking responsibility for those mistakes. It concerns you. It just was really, it was really weird. And you know, I mean, do parents make choices? And they do. And I just felt like, I don't know there's so much about this that has to do with demeanor and affect, which isn't great. Which isn't great.

[B]

Right.

[D]

But certainly in different areas. And then, you know, but so much of this revolves around intent and then credibility. So they were all very different. But yeah, the parents, Mackenzie's parents, I don't think they did any favors.

[A]

This is certainly one of those docs where I know we're gonna talk about whether or not we like the doc or not, but it's also the case. You can't not talk about the case because that actually is the doc. The doc is like, you know what I mean? Like, there's also so much to talk about about it. What did you think, Toby, about this thing with the parents that everybody is talking about? Did you have thoughts?

[C]

It's hard to draw a direct line from your parenting style to your child driving a car at 100 miles an hour into a brick wall. You can be critical of them being oblivious, being too permissive, enabling and stuff like that. That doesn't necessarily end in that kind of action. Right. I mean, there's plenty of parents who are like that and their kids, some turn out fine, some don't, you know, whatever. I mean, I think it's clear that from the documentary, from what you're seeing, they didn't have a clear eyed view of their daughter. They weren't able to see their daughter objectively. The families are so different. I just wish they'd given a little bit more context to even this town. Because the families also code as being from very different sort of social sets or whatever. I mean, I think the, the football player's family is clearly very Christian, which is not, it's not a criticism, it's just. But he talks a lot in sort of Christian terms. Talks about getting justice for his son on this earth, things like that.

[D]

And adopted Toby, which again then it ends up being. There's just a financial aspect and a class aspect and all that. Right. That's different.

[C]

You know, it's obviously a tragic story and it's tragic in a different way for the parents of the sons. But all the parents, for each one, each set of parents, they included some bit of weird stuff that just kind of had me scratching my head and I was like, why did they.

[A]

Without context, without broader context, why did they put that.

[C]

Like for instance, there's a scene where Kenzie goes and is hanging out with Dom's father and he's like, got some pencil that he's like dangling from a string.

[A]

He's like Divining. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And it's just like, why did they include this? This is so weird.

[B]

Like, that was ridiculous.

[D]

Look, I'm not moving my arm.

[C]

That's a yes. Do you have a message for Kenzie?

[E]

L.

[A]

O Laura does that all the time. In her defense, it was a Ouija board.

[B]

I do I. It was like, dom, are you there, Dom? And then he's going, l. Oh, I love you, too. I'm like, oh, my God. This is like a seance or something right now.

[D]

Maybe he was gonna spell L O S E R. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You didn't know?

[D]

You don't know. Let him finish.

[A]

Can I just make the observation that Mackenzie's dad was wearing a T shirt that had the word boom on it during his interview about an accident where his daughter is accused of murdering people by driving into a wall? Yeah. Do you don't think anybody turned to him and was like, do you want

[B]

to button your shirt over that? Rethink your fashion choices? Kind of like she should have rethought her social media posts there?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So, Lara, you are a defense investigator, as we know. What did you think about the defense generally in this case? You mentioned the lack of a medical expert, but from what you saw in the documentary.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What did you observe that maybe something that you would have done, maybe that wasn't done here by this defense?

[B]

There's a lot that could have been done, and I don't feel like they did. I actually talked to one of my attorneys about this today because she had also watched this, and she was like, this is prime for an ineffective claim. They didn't have any experts. They didn't have any medical experts. They didn't have any crash expert. They could have done. The fact that they had the mother get up and be the one to testify to this medical condition, it was like, was that even necessary? Because she's not relevant to talk about this. She's not likable. She's not a likable character in this. To me, Mackenzie, I. And I can see how she can be polarizing, but at the same time, there were things that could have been done with accident reconstruction. Look at all the stuff they did in the Karen Reed case, Rebecca. Like, what could have happened with the car? Did we evaluate the car? Did we find out, is there something that could have happened on the car? Is there something that could have happened with the shoe? Did we find out anything that could have shown an alternate theory or helped give more information about what happened leading into this? Because you see, that Video and it's horrible.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Like they keep showing it and showing it and you're like, oh my God.

[A]

I think the only detail that sticks out to me that I, I'm, I didn't feel like I had a satisfying explanation on was the shoe part. I mean, granted the cops, I mean, the prosecution hired their own, their own car expert and they had their own so called black box data. It's not actually called a black bo. People call it that. I know that from the Karen Reed case. They didn't use that data in that case because they're dummies anyway. Also because her car didn't crash into anything but the shoe being there. I know they had an explanation for it, but I kept thinking about the many times I've been driving in flip flops and the back of my flip flop gets stuck on the floor and suddenly I can't move my foot and panic. Not going 80 miles an hour, that speeds to 100. But that was the one thing I felt like the defense could maybe use that they didn't use here. Which.

[D]

But what I think is that what that demonstrates is that she was pushing down so hard on the floor that her flip flop got stuck to the gas maybe. Right.

[A]

Have you ever driven a gas.

[D]

I mean, that's what the forensic evidence is is that the accelerator was pushed all the way down.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Like sometimes, you know, for a split second, like, don't you try to like pick your foot up off the gas and maybe it gets caught under the brake.

[A]

I'm just saying what the defense might have tried that they didn't try.

[D]

But also I would say, I would guess. Lard, tell me if I'm wrong. If you did all that investigative work and you couldn't find something that was

[B]

helpful, you're not going to introduce it

[D]

at trial, you're not going to bring in some doctor and you're not going to talk about the car accident. Right. You're not going to talk about the wreck.

[B]

So that's the whole thing is they could have had an expert that we didn't hear about that said, yeah, no, this POTS thing is a bunch of bs and they're like, we want to introduce that and they're trying to manage the family and be like, yeah, it's not, it's not helpful. The doctor's not going to say something, fine, the mom will talk about it. And that could have been their compromise,

[A]

you know, that's a good point. That's a very good point.

[D]

Yeah. Because when you want people to Talk about expert stuff. You don't go to experts.

[A]

No.

[D]

You go to podcasters like us and you get all sorts of great advice and life lessons from us. At patreon.com partnersincrimemedia, we are in the Business Business section. Yeah. Including things like our crime writers. On after show, we always talk about cool stuff that we don't get to in the main podcast. And we've got recommendations this week. First of all, I'll mention that we didn't touch too much last week on what was going to be in the after show because we couldn't record it at the regular time. We didn't know. Didn't know it was going to be. So if you join our Patreon, you'll get to hear Rebecca talk to her older sister that I surprised with her and learned all about. Little baby Rebecca.

[A]

It was a this Is yous Life episode.

[D]

What was Rebecca like as a child? And the word terrorist came up more than once.

[A]

It did.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[D]

And about all the times that she

[A]

almost died of my own hand.

[D]

By her own hand. Fell in the pool, drank antifreeze. Jesus.

[B]

Jesus.

[C]

Class Action Park. Does that come up at all?

[A]

No, Class Action park never came down.

[D]

Yep, forgot about that one. Yeah. Lucky to be here. But this week on the after show, we have our summer recommendations, something we like to do. Each of us are gonna give you a couple of things that you can watch or do this summer that we think you will find enjoyable. But other content includes Toby Ball's Deep Dive Book Club podcast. Toby and his panel just talked about the book Chaos that was looking into whether Charles Manson and the CIA were in cahoots together. Married With Podcast is our advice Podcast. Rebecca and I give advice to a listener whose friends from college went on a trip without her. And what that's all about. Something's off.

[A]

They're dicks. That's what it's about.

[D]

They're dicks. Something that's off is Rebecca's podcast with Mel Barrett. And what is the latest from Canton, Massachusetts?

[A]

Oh, my God. So much, Kevin. So much.

[D]

Just give me one.

[A]

All right. All of the McAlbert clan showed up in court for a little hearing, and, man, did they look like they've been through it. Because they have.

[D]

They did back in the day because

[A]

they helped cover up a murder.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

In my opinion.

[D]

In your opinion, if you join us on the Brichters scale, you get an additional podcast, which is Laura Bricker's. Leave it to Bricker. And in the next episode, Laura's talking all about Conflict at the condos.

[B]

Yeah, conflict at the condos. And I have to tell you, since I announced this, I have seen in all of the town, a lot of town Facebook groups in New Hampshire. That, that show, that neighbor show is actually coming to film in New Hampshire.

[A]

It is, yes.

[D]

They were looking for. Yeah.

[A]

People in Nashua and Alton.

[B]

They found someone.

[A]

Oh, wow. No, no, they were looking for people in Nashua. They like recruiting throughout New Hampshire on town Facebook pages. Yeah. So there was one in Nashua, There was one in Laconia. Yeah.

[B]

I might recruit them over here.

[D]

Yeah, but you also have to look crazy. That's the thing, right? It's not a one step.

[A]

Laura's the source who's gonna tell them. You should talk to these people and she can be a commenter.

[D]

Oh, yeah, there you go.

[A]

She's not one of the craziest. Laura, that's such a good idea.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No.

[D]

If you join us at the let's do what we do level, you get episodes of Crime Writers on early and ad free. And if you're a deep diver, you get to be an official sponsor of Toby Ball's Deep Dive book club podcast tomorrow. Tomorrow night, Toby Ball is recording the next episode with Josh Eaton, Mel Barrett and Sarah Debunting. Toby, what's the book you're talking about?

[C]

It's called the Other side of Prospect. It's by Nicholas Dawadoff. It's a bad conviction that was a false confession that was retechniqued out of a 16 year old, so.

[A]

Oh, shit. Just like Jason Carroll.

[D]

Did you just spoil the whole thing?

[C]

No, I'm not. That's okay.

[A]

It's probably on the jacket.

[C]

It's like a third of the way through the book, so you kind of know what's coming. It's not about a kid who actually did it and then spending all this time on it. So anyway, super interesting book. Takes place in New Haven, Connecticut.

[A]

Interesting.

[D]

That's all exclusive content you get with [e-mail] partners in crime media.

[A]

Kevin?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Should folks sign up for our newsletter on our website, crimewriterzn.com?

[D]

yeah. Go to crimewriterzon.com and you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. It's going to come out on Thursday. You'll get all sorts of cool content, including updates on what's happening behind the scenes. BTs behind the scenes at CWO review updates, plus pet of the week, crime of the week, post of the week, and all sorts of new merch, including our new line of Tugato es elegante.

[A]

Tugato es elegante.

[D]

Yeah. The only Spanish phrase that Toby left the United States to move to Valencia.

[C]

To really know it's all you need to know.

[D]

It's all you need to know. It's funny how many times it's actually come up.

[C]

It's a conversation starter. It's a conversation ender. Leaves people in a good mood.

[D]

There was the sex shop that he was standing in front of.

[C]

There's so many sex shops in Valencia, it is unbelievable. Like, just walking. When you leave my apartment and you walk, like, three blocks, you're going into, like, the old part of the city. You know, it's like inside the wall. Castle walls and stuff. Big, you know, sex shop that's built in some, like, probably, like, 16th century building. It's just.

[A]

Is that why they call it the dildo capital of Europe is.

[C]

Do they call it.

[D]

They call it that?

[B]

No.

[A]

Jesus, guys.

[C]

I mean, it could be. They could call it that, and if they have it in Spanish, I wouldn't know.

[A]

It's the ball gag capital of Europe. Everybody knows that.

[C]

But, yeah, there's a lot of sex shops in Valencia.

[A]

Nice.

[D]

Well, that's what you need when Tugato es elegante.

[A]

All right, Kevin does. Thus end our business section.

[D]

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[A]

So, Kevin, who's the sponsor of this fine podcast?

[D]

Oh, we're sponsored by quints.

[A]

Shut up.

[D]

Yeah. Summer is the perfect time to rethink the clothes that you've been for every day. You take all those clothes that you bought from Quince in the winter, all those nice sweaters, you put them to one side of the closet or in a different drawer, and you bring out all of last year's linens. Get the new ones to add to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Rebecca, what have you recently purchased from Quint?

[A]

You know, I love a linen shirt.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

And I have a couple of Quint's linen shirts. The European linen I love. The dark blue with the white stripes is my favorite one. I have a white one. I've got a pink one. I've got a solid blue one. They are the most versatile, cute shirts. I wear it over a bathing suit. I wear it out to dinner. We were on vacation, remember? I wore a linen shirt every day.

[D]

Yes. Yes. And in fact, for that vacation, you purchased me two pairs of swimming trunks.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Bathing suit. Whatever you call it.

[A]

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[D]

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[A]

So, Toby.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Can we talk about Mackenzie's friend who's actually like kind of a main source in this documentary? Her friend Rosie.

[C]

She's a pretty interesting person. Rosie and Kenzie kind of meet up because they kind of like each other's, you know, Instagram and TikTok. Stuff like each other's look and stuff. But Rosie has like a quarter of a million followers or something. It's like hard to kind of comprehend.

[A]

Anyway, you're like that judge. You have no idea.

[C]

I'm like, okay, whatever.

[A]

What's that?

[C]

So they get together. They seem to form like a little mean girl duo. Seemed pretty brash and arrogant. She plays an interesting part in this because for a lot of things, she's just trying to make it seem like everything was fine. Kenzie was cool. She wasn't mean. She and Dom loved each other. They got along great. There was never any drama. All this stuff but then when you get to the trial, and then as Rebecca was alluding to just a second ago, you know, the prosecutor during the sentencing phase is showing these TikTok, this social media stuff that Kenzie has done. Like, I don't know if he doesn't know. Probably not. I mean, I wouldn't. But there's a context to all this stuff. You know, they're singing along to songs that are wildly popular on TikTok at the time, and there's hundreds of thousands of people doing the exact same thing or put on makeup, like little Yachty or something, Yoda or something, and tons and tons of kids are doing that. So they're kind of picking these social media posts that make her look particularly ghoulish or violent or arrogant, but there's no context that it's like a trend that. That she's kind of popping in on, and that's not explaining. The judge doesn't know that. And so, Rosie, in those situations, it's towards the same goal, which is to make Kenzie look as good as possible. But in this case, there's no other voice that's saying, like, you got to understand what's going on on how social media works for. For kids our age. And then she won't talk to the prosecutor, and then they're like, oh, we talked to Rosie. He's like, oh, I'll be pretty interested to hear what she says, or whatever. It's like, well, I think it's probably exactly what you were expecting. But anyway, so she. She's an interesting person in this, for sure. You know, I think just kind of attitudinally and. And just sort of the way she comports herself, I felt was kind of illuminating about Kenzie as well.

[A]

Lara. You know, I've been watching some hearings lately where a judge is confronted with evidence, you know, via videos on YouTube and literally asked somebody. So people just go on this website to watch people talk about anything, and they're like, yep. Do you think it's fair game? I mean, it's. Clearly, everything's fair game, obviously. But do you think that looking at Kenzie's social media, MacKenzie's social media, and making judgments about her culpability in a crime is a good idea? Is it fair? What do you think?

[B]

Well, it doesn't feel like Toby said, particularly fair because there's context that they're not able to introduce. But, hey, you know, if I was looking for information in one of my cases and I came across something on social media that was, like, helpful to What I was working on, of course I'm gonna extract it and use it in whatever case I'm working on in this one. You know, it's like you see her social media posts and that's the personality that the judge in this case, because it's not a jury trial, is seeing and forming the basis of like, who is Kenzie? Who is this person? Here are these videos. We all know you put your best stuff on social media. Like, you know, she's, she's a teenage teenagers totally curate what they put out there. So you know, this isn't reality. And I think, I don't know how you get at that in this case because.

[A]

But wasn't it just in the sentencing phase? I thought they played those. Yeah, yeah, anything's admissible in the fucking sentencing phase.

[B]

Where they slipped is on their preparation for her portion of the sentencing.

[A]

No kidding.

[B]

Her little freaking horrible speech that she gave. I was like.

[A]

And the mom, they didn't prep the mom either. I'm hearing an awful lot about your daughter. I'm not hearing very much about the.

[B]

To dead people, Dominic.

[A]

Okay, I'm asking you for a leniency

[D]

because this was a tragic accident that she does not remember.

[A]

And Davion, we don't.

[D]

He's a new friend and I'm so sorry.

[B]

Does that mean his life is worthless?

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

Like I prep people for silencings all the time. I. It's one of the things I do for my job and like people. What do I write? What do I say? Here's a template of something, like ideas. This is how you typically structure something. And here's some things you don't do. You don't attack the victims. You know, you take responsibility.

[A]

But he was a new friend, Lara. He was a new friend.

[B]

Yeah. So it's not the same as an old friend. Like his life is.

[A]

It didn't make it worse.

[B]

As good as the old one.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, I agree with the two of you guys or maybe the three of you. I don't get. No, Rebecca, you didn't weigh on this, but I think the investigators really just don't understand kid culture. And so playing her TikTok clips just shows that she's mostly like other girls, not nice girls. I mean, doing a dance or whatever, that's fine, everyone's doing that. But like her other clips.

[A]

Oh, being mean. Literally being mean.

[D]

Yeah. First of all also like, how many fucking selfies of you smoking giant cigar sized blunts and blowing smoke into your phone while like, while you're driving or something like that. I don't know. I don't know if, like, I'm gonna sound like old man, get off my lawn. But that's just kind of trashy. Right? And doesn't matter. Boy, girl, whatever. But, like, that does show a lack of, I wanna say common sense, but good judgment. We'll say that. Right. And if this really, you know, if this were an accident where the prevailing theory of the prosecution was that she was high, then that would show that. But then the, you know, the drug tests come back, and it doesn't show that. I have my own. I know we're all gonna talk about. We're all gonna talk about the McKenzie interview, and we're gonna talk about what we think happened in the crash. But as far as, like, the social media, the stuff that I found really more enlightening was the stuff where she's telling people to, like, take fuck off and die. Because that does play into the perception that she is a mean girl. Right. And that just. She's just very unlikable. Whether or not that means that, you know, this was an intentional act or not, that's one thing. But it's certainly something that intrigues people watching a documentary like this.

[C]

Yeah, we just saw. I mean, we just saw. I can't remember what the name of it was, but that one that takes place in, like, West Virginia maybe, where those girls are just, like, totally. Yeah, totally. Having their beefs online. Fuck you. I never knew. I never should have liked you. And, you know, the thing is, is that at the end, to the judge's credit, she ignores all that stuff and just gives sort of the minimum sentence, the minimum allowance, the concurrency. Yeah. So, yeah, it didn't seem like it made much difference.

[A]

Can you imagine if she had had a jury trial? Oh, my God.

[C]

Oh, my. Doing a judge trial was, like, the best choice.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Good choice for there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A jury would have hated this defendant. But. But, Toby, isn't that the whole point? It's like, people love to hate women when they're on trial. In my opinion, in my experience, in my Covering all sorts of stuff, male defendants are easy to be like, ah, gross. But women defendants, it's like, she's a psycho. She's a this. Like, that would have played in that way. Because it plays in the documentary, right. That we. It's easy to vilify this young woman.

[C]

Yeah. No, I think the public likes attractive female victims and attractive female perpetrators. So they can be like, oh, look at that psycho bitch. You know, in that Situation, like, as soon as they started talking about, you know, you can choose a jury or a bench trial, it's like, oh, man, you got to go for the bench trial. Because just in general, she's not going to come across as sympathetic. Regardless of anything else. She's. She's attractive young woman who sort of exudes attitude. Those things don't necessarily make her guilty or innocent, but spark a response in

[A]

people they don't help.

[D]

Yeah, you gotta win this one on

[A]

the law, you know, it also sparks a response when you see that video of the car going 100 miles an hour. Isn't that video startling, Toby? Like seeing 100 miles an hour on a residential street, it's hard to comprehend

[C]

when you hear it and then you, like, realize that you're gonna be seeing video of it. It's like, oh, okay. And then you see the video, it's like, holy shit. It's so, like, out of proportion to anything that you would expect 100 miles an hour on a. On a suburban street is really, really fast.

[D]

That's a blur.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

You know, but the part that I found was, like, really eye opening was when they come to the end of that street, like right before the crash, because it's basically, okay, you're going, it's a T. It's right. You said T. Right. First of all, they go through this dog leg to get there. Right. So there's a bit of a turn. So it's. Nobody's passed out behind the wheel and other shit's going on. But all of a sudden this straight road is no longer straight and it's a brick wall there. And it's. You see that last minute off the road, just within a split second off the road into the wall.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So you realize, like, how quickly, whether this was controlled or not, you need 600ft to break at 100 miles an hour. And you're just, you're not going to get that when all of a sudden you realize you got to turn right or left, you're going to flip the car or you're going to knock the bricks out of that wall.

[A]

Yeah. So Lara Mackenzie does give an interview for this documentary. I've never spoke before and I never

[B]

told my side of the story. And I understand there's many different sides to the story and different perspectives, but I just want to say my truth and I just know myself and I

[A]

know I'm not a monster. What were your impressions of this interview? What we saw, how it was edited, but also your takeaways personally?

[B]

Well, first of all, Rebecca, I wanna know if we can get your hair in that style for next week's taping of Crime Writers Office.

[D]

I do.

[A]

Oh, the big mushroom on top. Yes, the big poofy Padma from Star wars mushroom.

[B]

I think that would look very nice. Next week on Crime Writers. On.

[D]

She put more time thinking in that hairstyle than dad did on that boom. T shirt.

[B]

Yeah, no kidding. You know, it was interesting because I was like, oh, we're gonna hear from her. And then I'm like, I don't really think I'm hearing anything that's changing my opinion of any of this. It's more like nobody really knows me. And, like, it was a little bit of a cheap shot. The way they edited at the end with her talking to her lawyer. Like, they're trying to sort of insinuate that she wasn't, like, speaking freely or speaking authentically during the interview. The way they left that in the final version of this documentary.

[A]

Did I touch on that? Okay, so everything is like, you think,

[B]

I don't want to force anything and just say too much or sound crazy. I just want to just make sure that I'm big on the. No intent there. There was no intent whatsoever.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I agree. It's just put in there to make her look bad. Is there any possibility that she would have done that interview without at least consulting her lawyer and trying to figure out what she ought to say and what the message she got to be? I mean, it's not like they showed up. She's like, oh, yeah, sure, I'll talk to you, and just talks off the cuff. I mean, that's just not going to happen. So in my mind, this case appears fairly clear cut, the way they put it. But that little decision I kind of felt undercut any sense of being completely objective or unbiased in it. I think they kind of tipped their hand there about what they think of her. Does it materially change what you end up with? I mean, I think that the case in the documentary seems. Seems pretty convincing, but feels like a more judicious editor would have been like, let's not put that in, because I think it's showing our thumb on the scale too much.

[A]

All right, I'm gonna ask you a question I don't normally ask. What do you think happened?

[D]

I don't think she decided to, like, drive and intentionally crash into a wall and kill herself and everybody. I don't think that. I mean, I think.

[A]

You don't think it was murder?

[D]

I don't think it was first degree premeditated murder. That's where I come down. The forensic evidence is very compell. We know that she turned the wheel on that dogleg and that the pedal was all the way to the floor. And we know someone was jerking at the wheel and put the car in neutral and then back. Someone put it back in drive. Right. So that's all black box. Again, we'll call it the black box. That's all electronic data that look, two decades ago we never would have known that, but we do. And it reads to me like, especially when you see how that car just kind of like goes through that tee. It reads to me like this was somebody. Because we know that she's done. She did this like earlier he said she was going, you know, very, very fast. So, like, we see this again. I don't think that she meant to drive straight in the wall. However, what she did was depraved indifference and a foreseeable outcome of her behavior. She turns the corner onto that road, puts her blinker on, makes a nice, safe turn. Nice. Yeah. Looks both ways, goes 90 degrees, then gets on the road and goes 100 miles an hour. Something happened, Right?

[A]

Do you think she didn't know the wall was there? Is that what you're saying?

[D]

I think that she was not anticipating the road to end like that and the wall to be there. Right. But that's still aggravated vehicular homicide. You know, she's responsible. I just think as far as a degree, you know, as far as what sentencing is, I think that's different. I'm not saying it was an accident, and I'm not saying. Certainly not saying she blacked out. What she did was absolutely foreseeable. That's where I come down on it.

[A]

I agree with you.

[D]

I don't think she was like, well, now I'm gonna get you.

[A]

I agree with you, Kevin. I don't think she said. Got in that car and said, I'm gonna kill these two guys. Yeah, I think she was impulsive, mad, having one of her tantrums, did that and didn't know the rub was gonna be the best behavior we've seen, which is not good.

[B]

Yeah, I think that makes sense because it feels like when you watch that video, like, you can kind of see, like, okay, they're in there, they're like having an argument. She's like, fuck this. And. And like, nobody thinks she's actually gonna do this. And then it just keeps on going. And then it's like, oh, fuck. And I think that's this, this case is so divisive because so many people are on one side or the other of, of what they think happened. So I'm sure we're gonna get added for everything we say.

[A]

I mean, I think you'd be surprised at how the people who say it was clearly an accident, she did nothing wrong, something you'd beat those people. I think they get added because people just love to hate this girl. Toby, do you have any insight onto or theories onto what actually happened here?

[C]

I think what you guys describe seems to best fit the way things are portrayed in the show. If she had done that on purpose, she had to have assumed that she was gonna die too. And there's nothing in it that makes it seem like that was kind of where her head was at. And they don't even really discuss it, which I thought was kind of weird. It never comes up like, well, was she trying to kill all of them, including herself? So, yeah, I mean, that seems like the most likely thing. And again, it's, it's not an excuse, but it's something that apparently she'd done before. Do you love hair raising allegedly true

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[A]

Alright, let's do what we do. Let's let our listeners know should they check out the Netflix documentary the Crash? As of this taping, it's been the number one thing on Netflix for less, like days and days. Laura Bricker, Thumbs up or thumbs down for the Crash?

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna go mild thumbs up on this. This isn't a case I've really followed. I know a lot of our listeners have. I see it a lot of times posted on social media, but it's not something I've done any kind of a deep dive into. This is the latest in what I call like those documentaries that are a lot of them based on using body worn camera footage to help illustrate the story. This is something we've seen in a couple others recently. I really like it because I think when you actually see how something unfolds and it's not scripted, it's just how it's happening, I think that helps really show the actual story about what's happening. Now. I don't really know what the actual story is here. You know, this is, this is the core question of this is, you know, is this an accident? Was this an impulsive act? Was this murder? How did she get her hair to stand up like that when she does her interview from, from prison? I don't know. But you know what, if you want an overview of this case, there are some areas they could have gone more into depth. That's why I'm not like super thumbs up because I think that there were some angles that could have been pursued a little bit. But this does give you access to the families and most of the major players in this. And again, that body worn camera footage.

[A]

Tubby thumbs up or thumbs down for the crash.

[C]

So I. I think I'm a thumb sideways on this. Like, it's definitely. It's competently made. I think my biggest objection to it is it feels like kind of a misogyny amplifier. Like, it seems as though it's sort of custom made to really make you angry at this one young woman and perhaps her parents. There's a particular scene in which they kind of tip their hand that that's what they're trying to do. And, you know, I think it worked. It's number one on Netflix. But is that, is that a noble outcome? You know, I sort of. I guess it's like as far as craft and putting it together, it's easy to follow to get some good interviews. There's some stuff that would have been helpful, but for the most part that's fine. The response that it's trying to elicit I find kind of difficult. I don't feel like we need to try and amp up the misogyny in our society anyway. So I'm a thumb sideways.

[A]

Kevin Flynn.

[D]

I'm a mild thumbs up on this. This is an interesting profile of an odious person. And the question about whether people died because of her petulance or because of premeditation. I think there are many parallels between her and Murdoch. Reckless, unlikable, enabled, unrepentant. It's the kind of person that, you know, the world, the Internet, the streaming world, loves to hate. But there are much deeper, more interesting questions here. I think the documentary itself was kind of thin on insight, decent on the voices that they got, and strong on sort of engaging storytelling. If you don't know anything about this case, I was drawn into it. I thought that it ended up making me think a lot. I mean, I think I probably did more thinking about it than maybe the filmmakers did. They certainly want to present this woman as somebody that got her comeuppance or at the very least is worthy of your disdain. Maybe it's true, some people are. But, you know, for all the times we talk about demeanor, evidence and people's affect and whether or not that makes a difference of whether they're the ones that committed a crime, Well, I don't know. You can also put that towards someone's credibility, especially when it just comes down to this question, was this an accident or was this on purpose? Or perhaps something in the middle. So for that, I still think that this is the kind of thing that people will talk about. And you don't want to be left behind at the water cooler. So for me, I'm a mild thumbs up.

[A]

I am a thumb sideways. This documentary is very thin. And from my understanding, there's another documentary on Hulu that has a lot more. I'm not going to watch it, but I will say the Internet loves thinking this girl is guilty of murder. Like murder murder and the Internet hates her parents. Now I understand the latter very much, especially after seeing her mom give another interview. However, I think that one of the things that's kind of unexplored here are other potential scenarios that are in between the car malfunctioning and murder. Murder that really aren't explored in any way. Do I personally think she has some culpability? Yeah, I do listen to the review that we just taped where we mostly talked about the case and not the documentary. But the documentary doesn't do a great job sort of showing, like taking a step back. I think they had access to the parents of the victims and I think that made a difference sort of in their editorializing. And I don't blame the parents of the victims for this in any way. And I don't blame, you know, maybe their, maybe their, their assignment was to make a thing that was really short and in which case they did a really good job. But it's just thin. I just found it very thin. But I didn't hate it and I liked watching it. Maybe, maybe I'm a mild thumbs up now. I'm thumbs sideways. I'm thumb sideways on the crash. I love seeing the discourse around it, but the actual craft of the documentary, it's a sideways for me. Now it's time for my favorite part of the podcast. A little something I like to call the crime of the week.

[C]

Of the week.

[A]

God, that was right in my ear. Fans of the pioneering prog rock band King Crimson are happy to learn that frontman Robert Fripp is doing well after his heart attack. But the 80 year old guitarist has questions. Namely, why did somebody shave his balls? Fripp writes about his experience on his new substack. He says he was in Italy when he had a cardiac event and was taken to the hospital before being wheeled into surgery on his heart. A man came into his room with a razor and proceeded to remove the fuzz from his peaches. He doesn't speak Italian, so he wasn't sure what kind of treatment he was getting. Fripp says later he dropped his pants for nurse's inspection only to learn she was just there to ask him what he Wanted for lunch. It seems like he was being shorn in preparation of a cardiac catheterization through the femoral artery. Doctors would have wanted the area free of hair to keep the surgical field clear and minimize the chance of infection later. Since then, the musician has been on a steady exercise regimen and just completed a King Crimson tour. He says the mystery of why someone shaved his testicles during his heart attack may haunt him forever. But we think that when it happened, a male nurse exclaimed, now that's the spicy meatball.

[D]

You gotta. It's a meat. The ball. Come on, do it. Come on, do it.

[A]

Like you would say racist, Kevin. So, panel, who knew you get your junk shaved in an Italian hospital? What other unexpected services do they offer? What do you think, Larbricker?

[B]

Well, you kind of stole my thunder there with that last comment because I was going to say they send a little Italian grandmother in to give him some meatballs before surgery and she makes sure to pinch his cheeks and say, these are fuzz free.

[A]

What about you, Toby? What do you think the other unexpected services are that they offer at this Italian hospital?

[C]

I have a whole bunch of of follow up questions to the story. I'll let that go. Jesus, I have no idea. You get gelato if you get your tonsils removed.

[A]

What about you, Kevin?

[D]

Yeah, you get a happy ending over at physical therapy.

[A]

Oh, well, there's that.

[D]

It's a spicy meat. The ball.

[A]

What's King Crimson's best known song? Don't know.

[C]

Court of the Crimson Cake. Did you see what was that movie about? There's no more kids who are being childhood's end? No, they're super praggy. Oh, Power by Kanye samples 21st century schizoid man.

[A]

That's a kid from that song. Okay, all right. Well, Lara Bricker, if folks want to follow you online to say hi to you, how can they find you there?

[B]

You can find me at Laura Bricker on Blue sky and Instagram.

[A]

What about you, Toby? How can it be found online?

[C]

That's who we bought. 603 on Instagram.

[A]

What about you, Kevin?

[D]

I'm Evan Pflinn. And the P stands for. That's the spicy meat, the ball.

[A]

How do I get you to stop doing that? How? You want meatballs for dinner? Is that why you keep doing it?

[D]

I'm saying I'm hungry now.

[A]

You can find me everywhere. Even on X. Yep, still there. E.B. lavoy. You can find the show on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Blue Sky, TikTok, et cetera, and Threads Rimewriters on but mostly you should join Join our incredible Facebook group. Go to the official Crime Raters on Facebook discussion group. Ask to join and we'll let you in. If you seem nice, get episodes early and ad free and everything else we [e-mail] partnersincrimedia our theme song was composed and performed by Tyler Gibbons. Our editor is me. Our executive producer is Kevin Flynn. This show is recorded in the Caitlin Rogers Project studio, also known as Studio C, the closet in our Hampshire basement where we also take selfies while behind the wheel smoking the fattest blunts possible. Nah, it's just Toby. All the crime writers. Thanks so much for listening. We will catch you later. I have a great picture of Kevin's butt. We can look at it to start.

[D]

Jesus.

[B]

Oh. Oh.

[D]

You said you weren't gonna show anybody.

[A]

I didn't post it anyway.

[C]

Post it? No, it's just getting recorded on Riverside.

[A]

That's the minimum. The minimum is not posting it? Yes.

[D]

The minimum is not holding it up to the camera.

[A]

No big deal.

[D]

You didn't tell me you're gonna do that. You took a picture of my butt.

[A]

No, I wasn't planning on it. Kevin has a very good umpire butt that he's developed from doing 800 squats.

[D]

Anyone want to see Rebecca's tits?

[A]

What's up sports fans? I'm Rachel Demita here to tell you about my show, Courtside Club. If you love hoops and hot takes, then you're in the right place. Want to hear about Caitlin Clark's unstoppable rise in the wnba?

[E]

How stars like Wemby and Luka Doncic

[A]

are dominating the NBA? Or maybe you just want the tea on this week's most viral sports moments. Don't worry, we'll keep you updated on all of it.

[E]

So grab your popcorn and come hang with us courtside.

[A]

You can listen to Courtside Club wherever

[E]

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