Crimes of the Times: The Trials of Frank Carson – Episode 6 "Prelim"

Host: Christopher Goffard
Date: July 15, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the grueling 18-month preliminary hearing ("prelim") in the murder case against Frank Carson, a formidable criminal defense attorney accused of orchestrating the killing of Corey Kaufman. Goffard explores the prosecution's often-flimsy evidence, the relentless pressure on Carson and his co-defendants, and the dramatic twists that defined the prelim, from dubious witness testimony to the impact of withheld evidence. It’s a tale of stubborn resistance, staggering legal maneuvering, and the justice system stretched to its limits.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State’s Offer and Carson’s Defiance

• The DA floated a plea deal to Carson via his lawyer, Percy Martinez: If Carson cooperated and implicated others, charges against his wife and stepdaughter would be dropped.
  • Percy Martinez relays Carson's response:
    B, 00:55:

    “Are you crazy? … They made you an offer. They want you to cooperate against the Atwals. Chrissy and Georgia will get out immediately.”
    Carson's answer? An emphatic no.

• Carson’s refusal reflected his trademark obstinance:
  • A, 01:07:

    “Carson's response was a profane snarl. No chance.”

2. The Preliminary Hearing: The Government’s Case

• Prosecutor Marlisa Ferreira led an 18-month-long preliminary hearing, painting Carson as a man with a deep-seated hatred for thieves, allegedly triggering events leading to Kaufman’s death.
  • C, 03:36:

    “This is a case of a missing person named Corey Kaufman, who was last seen on Frank Carson's property… Mr. Carson has a long history of hating people who thiefed from him.”

• Ferreira insisted their investigation stemmed solely from Carson’s conduct.
  • C, 04:21:

    “It would have nothing to do with the facts of this case. And the fact that it was investigated stems solely from his conduct.”

3. The Prosecution’s Star Witness: Robert Woody

• Woody, a man with a history of drug use and criminal behavior, made multiple conflicting statements—eventually testifying in exchange for a plea deal (manslaughter, 7 years 3 months).
• Carson believed Woody’s ghastly confession (“feeding a body to pigs”) was cribbed from the movie Snatch:
  • D, 06:32:

    “It's like word for word what Robert Woody said. … He's stupid. He's doing time for something he didn't do. … But what I don't feel sorry for is that to save himself he makes up this story about the Atwals… that I don't forgive.”

Notable Defendant Testimonies

• Woody, under oath, described a violent scenario on Carson’s property—punched holes in his credibility resurfaced under cross:
  • A, 10:07:

    “Woody was on and off the stand for three. Under cross examination, he acknowledged that he would lie to avoid the death penalty or life in prison, both of which he'd been threatened with.”

• Defense attorneys hammered inconsistencies, especially regarding burial locations and the supposed timeline, and the lack of any physical evidence.

4. Debunking the State’s Evidence

• No physical evidence ever tied Carson’s property to a murder—no corpses, DNA, or trace elements.
  • A, 11:39:

    “The soil had held no trace of any corpse. No DNA, no blood, no fluids characteristic of a decomposing body, no dead insects … not even a remnant flake from the blue tarp Woody said he'd put the body in.”

• The defense highlighted how Woody’s timeline didn’t match other witness statements.

5. Frank Carson’s Character & “Circle”

• Former clients and “outlaw” acquaintances of Carson described him as honorable in his own way—a man who believed in fighting legal battles, not vigilante violence.
  • B, 15:30:

    “…an impressive stable that he could have just tapped into … but yet he goes and drags all of these … police officers, his wife, her daughter. Please. It doesn't even make any sense. It defies logic.”

• One friend recounts Carson discouraging violence, reinforcing his legalistic mindset:
  • B, 16:36:

    “Buddy, we don't do stuff like that. That's why you're always in trouble.”

  • B, 17:09:

    “If Frank asked me to kill somebody, I would have done it … but this, just knowing him the way I do, this whole thing is absurd.”

6. Prelim’s Toll: Psychological & Financial Pressure

• Defendants recounted the excruciating effects of prolonged lockup and mounting legal bills, particularly CHP Officer Walter Wells:
  • E, 18:04:

    “Each morning… I was chained up… My daughter was 10… I missed out on her entire fourth grade year… I missed school functions. I missed dance practices.”

• As months passed, the temptation to “flip” only grew, but most stayed united.

7. Carson’s Moment of Despair

• At his lowest, Carson considered taking the blame to set others free, evidence of his mental collapse and sense of burden:
  • E, 22:42:

    “He said, again, up until that point, I never even knew. Frank Carson never knew who he really was.”

  • H, 23:21:

    “You have long life to live. I should take the blame, and you guys can be free.”

• Co-defendants refused, emphasizing solidarity.

8. Courtroom Observers and State Intimidation

• Retired sheriff’s deputy Marty Carlson attended the hearings, blogging and later asserting that prosecutors and investigators attempted to intimidate him for publicizing flaws in their case:
  • G, 25:12:

    “They were trying to intimidate me. That's what they do. These guys are very aggressive. … They didn't like what I was doing.”

9. Discovery Violations and a Stunning Turn

• Prosecution failed to disclose crucial materials as required by Brady v. Maryland, only handing over 53 new discs and a damning audio tape near the hearing's end.
  • A, 29:07:

    “Defense attorneys often complain that prosecutors violate this rule, and in the Carson case, the complaints were frequent and bitter.”

• The newly discovered evidence—an interview with Robert Woody—utterly undermined his reliability as a witness.
  • D, 30:57:

    “It turns out that we transcribed it, and it was a devastating impeachment against Woody.”

• Judge Zuniga, previously viewed as prosecution-friendly, surprised both parties by releasing Carson and the Atwal brothers pending trial, citing the DA’s errors:
  • A, 37:16:

    “Zuniga let Carson and the Atwell brothers go home. … She did not drop the charges, but at least they would not be in jail while the case was decided.”

10. Personal Fallout and Lingering Shadows

• Carson and Atwal describe the profound personal costs—lost business, lost friends, public shame, and psychological trauma:
  • H, 41:02:

    “I lost my lot of friends. … I lose a lot of good customers.”

• Carson admitted to contemplating suicide in jail, illustrating the case's emotional devastation:
  • D, 39:27:

    “I had figured out how to kill myself.”

11. The Next Challenge: The Wrong Suspects?

• The episode closes with defense attorneys suggesting the tunnel vision against Carson blinded authorities to other stronger suspects, such as Jason Armstrong, who had ties to core evidence locales.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Carson's response was a profane snarl. No chance."
  — Christopher Goffard on Frank Carson's plea offer rejection (01:07)

• "If Frank asked me to kill somebody, I would have done it, you know, but this just knowing him the way I do. This whole thing is absurd."
  — Carson’s ex-client and friend (17:09)

• “It just doesn't happen, Chris. It just doesn't happen. But everything that is abnormal happens in our case.”
  — Percy Martinez, Carson’s attorney, on their release (38:21)

• “Had I not been released, I couldn't have survived it to this point. I couldn't have done it.”
  — Frank Carson (39:07)

• “I was trying to figure out how to kill myself. It was just so awful, you know?”
  — Frank Carson on his mental state in jail (39:10)

• “She did not drop the charges, but at least they would not be in jail while the case was decided, and for Carson, it meant he could continue to practice the law.”
  — Christopher Goffard (37:16)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:55 — The prosecution’s plea offer revealed; Carson’s response
• 03:36 — Prosecutor Ferreira outlines case against Carson
• 06:32 — Carson alleges Woody’s confession is a copy of Snatch
• 11:39 — Defense dismantles state’s burial location claim
• 15:30 — Ex-client explains why Carson wouldn’t use “straight shooters” in a real conspiracy
• 18:04 — Walter Wells describes effects of incarceration
• 22:42 — Carson offers to take all blame for co-defendants’ freedom
• 25:12 — Retired deputy Marty Carlson on alleged intimidation
• 29:07 — Discovery violation and Brady rule issues detailed
• 37:16 — Judge Zuniga unexpectedly releases Carson and Atwals from custody
• 39:07 — Carson reveals his suicidal thoughts
• 41:02 — Atwal on loss of friends and customers after arrest
• 42:35-42:36 — Defense shifts suspicion to Jason Armstrong

Tone & Style

Goffard maintains a deeply investigative yet empathetic and patient tone, giving a voice to all players in the drama—defendants, attorneys, witnesses—while exposing the bureaucratic, personal, and moral complexities of the legal battles. The narrative weaves intense frustration, dark humor, resilience, and the crushing weight of injustice.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

Episode 6 of “The Trials of Frank Carson” presents the dramatic, fraught, and often absurd ordeal of a high-profile preliminary hearing. Listeners learn not just about contested evidence and courtroom machinations, but about the immense strain on everyone involved—psychologically, financially, and socially—while the accused’s fates hung in limbo. The episode concludes with the groundwork laid for a defense argument that may upend the state’s theory entirely.