Criminal — "Gone" (Jan 16, 2026)
Host: Phoebe Judge
Guest: Karen Palmer (pseudonym)
Episode Overview
This episode of Criminal tells the harrowing true story of Karen Palmer (a pseudonym), who, after years of coercive control and escalating threats from her ex-husband Gil, made the dramatic decision to go on the run with her two young daughters and new partner Vinnie in the late 1980s. The episode traces their journey into hiding, the toll it took, the lengths Karen went to erase their trail, and the challenges of building new lives with new identities—all under the persistent shadow of fear that Gil might find them. The conversation explores abuse, the gaps in legal protection, ingenuity and resilience, and the emotional cost of survival.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Setting the Stage: The Escape
- [01:31] Karen describes leaving abruptly:
"We really left overnight, you know, I had a job ... I just one day didn't go to work."
- She recounts how her two daughters, ages 3 and 7, were swept along without full understanding:
"We told [Erin] we're going to go live somewhere where we're safe ... She never told a soul." [02:01]
2. The Relationship with Gil: Red Flags and Escalation
- Karen met Gil at 17; he was 36. The age gap and imbalance in power is noted.
"When I think back on it now, I think often, you know, what did he think he was doing with somebody my age?" [03:06]
- Gil's charm masked criminal activity—selling stolen merchandise and multiple fake IDs.
"He would pull that out at parties, like a party trick." [05:05]
- The escalation to physical intimidation and threats:
"He showed her a gun ... He said it wasn't loaded, but when she hit the gun out of his hand, it went off in the sink." [05:36]
3. Coercive Control and Barriers to Leaving
- Karen describes the "boiling frog" metaphor for abuse:
"The abuse was more, I guess, what they call now, coercive control. Though there were physical elements to it." [06:09]
- Obstacles to seeking help—at the time, there were no anti-stalking laws in California.
"There were no anti stalking laws in California at the time. The state wouldn't have any until 1990, the first in the country." [10:33]
4. Escalation to Violence and Kidnapping
- Gil's threats escalate:
"He was going to cut my head off and put it in the refrigerator for our daughters to find." [09:43]
- Gil kidnaps their daughter Amy at the airport, exploiting lack of legal protections (no custody order in place):
"Their response was what is your custody arrangement? ... they said, well, he has as much right to her as you do." [18:57]
- Law enforcement's limited ability to help: "We can't really do anything." [18:57]
5. Negotiation and Return
- After 10 stressful days, Karen negotiates Amy's return by agreeing to see Gil and not involve police:
"I was torn between having police there ... or terrified ... that he would do something to Amy." [22:01]
- The dramatic reunion:
"I heard him call my name ... he'd lifted up his shirt ... the gun that he had tucked into the waistband of his pants." [22:55]
6. Life on the Run: Adopting New Identities
- Using a survivalist bookstore and guidebooks, Karen and Vinnie learn how to assume new names and create forged documents:
"We had this guidebook on how to assume a new identity." [24:32]
- The technical process of forging documents, like birth certificates and setting up new IDs explained in detail [27:25–28:36]
"It was terrible ... but the reason it worked out is because it was a different world then." [28:36]
- Practical challenges: enrolling children in school, buying a house in cash, avoiding digital traces.
7. Enduring Fear and Paranoia
- Constantly on edge, interpreting every disturbance as Gil’s possible return:
"I never knew. I mean, maybe he was driving all over the place and talking to people and hiring private detectives." [30:37]
- Everyday life involved precautions—phone calls from payphones, frequent moves, and secrecy.
8. Resolution: Discovering Gil’s Fate and Reclaiming Identity
- Years later, Karen learns Gil has been imprisoned, then later finds he has died homeless in Santa Maria:
"There is not a day in which I did not think about him. And filled with apprehension that maybe he will find us after all." [39:44] "What came up was ... a man, a homeless man who'd been found dead in a local park. And it turned out that that person was Gil." [42:03]
- Emotional aftermath:
"They were mainly relieved, you know, where they were like, finally, it's over. ... For me ... the larger emotion was grief." [43:11]
9. Legal Aftermath and Reintegration
- The process of merging fake and legal identities:
"Oh, my God. It was not fun. It took years to straighten it out. ... We would have to come clean and throw ourselves on their mercy." [45:00]
- The Social Security agent’s reaction:
"She kind of swept everything up and said, I can refer you for criminal prosecution for fraud. And I might do that." [45:49]
- But ultimately, their intentions were recognized as self-protection, not fraud:
"We had always gone way in the other direction ... it wasn't like we owed money anywhere. ... I think they finally looked at us and said, okay, we're gonna let this go." [46:18]
10. Reflections
- Did Karen regret going into hiding?
"I felt very guilty, and I wondered if it was necessary to disappear. ... I don't regret it. I feel sad, but I don't regret it." [44:07]
- She, Vinnie, and her daughters all legally adopted their new names after living with them for so long.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On learning to trust safety again:
"It was never going to be over ... we decided, okay, that's it. We have to do it." — Karen Palmer [24:02]
-
On forgeries and the analogue era:
"It was a different world then. You know, states were very cut off from each other in terms of their documents and their records." — Karen Palmer [28:36]
-
On surviving together:
"It's like we had a version of a wartime romance, you know, where, like, the bombs were going off all around us. And so we felt so connected to each other and so connected to the girls and so devoted to the idea of making a safe place for all of us." — Karen Palmer [37:45]
-
Daughters' relief at learning of Gil's death:
"They were mainly relieved, you know, where they were like, finally, it's over. ... For me ... the larger emotion was grief." — Karen Palmer [43:11]
Important Timestamps
- [01:31] - Karen describes leaving for good
- [03:06] - Recalling the start of her relationship with Gil
- [05:05] - Discovery of Gil's criminal behavior
- [09:43] - First major death threat from Gil
- [14:00] - The airport kidnapping
- [19:15] - Law enforcement’s lack of power to intervene
- [22:41] - The confrontation to retrieve Amy
- [24:32] - Beginning new identities
- [28:36] - Technological limits help them hide
- [34:04] - Keeping in secret communication with her mother
- [37:18] - Finally reconnecting with their families
- [39:44] - Karen's lasting fear and monitoring of Gil
- [42:03] - Discovery of Gil's death
- [44:07] - Reflecting on the decision to hide
- [45:00] - Legal complexities in restoring their true identities
Tone and Style
The episode is delivered in Phoebe Judge's signature calm, compassionate interviewing style, punctuated by Karen Palmer’s direct, sometimes wry, sometimes raw reflections. The tone is frank but never sensational, with steady respect for the terror and complexity of escaping abuse, the ingenuity required to build a new life, and the ambiguous emotions that linger long after the threat is gone.
For Listeners:
This episode is a compelling, emotionally nuanced narrative illuminating not just the steps in going “underground,” but the courage and resourcefulness needed to survive—physically, emotionally, legally—when the system offers little help. Karen’s is a story of harrowing danger, creative escape, and the complicated relief of finally being free.