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[00:00]
A
Hey, I've got the campaign brief ready. Built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape approved.
[00:06]
B
Oh, agents, where would we be without you?
[00:09]
A
Somewhere with a lot more tabs open.
[00:12]
C
Create your first Monday agent in minutes@Monday.com
[00:16]
A
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[00:58]
C
They've climbed this kind of old ladder that leads up to the jetty. They're standing on the island, they've been given gas mux and they're told that it's one level below a full scale eruption.
[01:19]
D
In 2019, a volcano erupted off the coast of New Zealand.
[01:23]
B
22 people who were visiting the volcano died.
[01:27]
D
Emily Clark covered what happened next. She's a journalist on the foreign desk for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Emily, thanks for being here.
[01:37]
C
Thanks for having me.
[01:39]
B
Tell me a little bit about Whakaari, which is also known as White Island. It's off the northern coast of New Zealand.
[01:46]
D
Just talk about this volcano a little bit.
[01:49]
C
Yeah, it's really unique in that when we say volcano, I don't want you to picture this kind of peak with lava coming down the side. It's not that kind of volcano. Its crater is a bowl and when it erupts, it doesn't have lava that spills out of the top. It is gas, toxic gas, debris, rocks with immense pressure that has built inside. And actually that crater is the peak and the rest of the volcano is underneath the ocean. So if you think about the part of the volcano that tourists and guides were able to access that day, it was the very, very top of it. So it's a little bit different in terms of the classic vision you might have of a volcano and an eruption, but very, very dangerous.
[02:43]
B
This volcano, this island which has this volcano on it, it's somewhat unique because it's a privately owned island.
[02:55]
D
How did that happen?
[02:57]
C
States back two generations, the Bustle family, their grandfather thought it might be nice to own an island. He was a broker in Auckland and it became available and he bought it and it was passed down through the generations. And it's still privately held by three, three Buttle brothers. But the brothers have held it and didn't necessarily make a lot of money off it for a long time. There were attempts to mine it, but ultimately that was kind of unsuccessful and too dangerous. And there was attempts at other kinds of tourism. But it's, it's absolute wilderness. It's so difficult to do anything there. It's, it's difficult to even get big boats very close to its coastline. So if you think about the infrastructure that's required to really do something at scale, even though it's this novel place, it's just really difficult and really expensive. But they had come to an arrangement with some tour companies to run these small group tours into the crater. And those were offered on cruise ships that would pull up nearby. Um, it was a really kind of interesting arrangement where it's not. There was a lease, almost like a lease fee paid, but then also almost like a commission paid for every tourist that was on the island. The, the private owners would get a fee. So it was a little bit of a strange structure, not a typical kind of landlord tenant situation. But they sort of did have this, this regular tour operation on the island that the owners were making money from.
[04:41]
D
Before 2019.
[04:44]
B
How dangerous was this volcano thought to be? I mean there were tour groups, there were cruise ships pulling up to the island.
[04:51]
C
Very dangerous. I mean this was a volcano that was actively monitored by New Zealand's volcano monitor. And they had raised the level to a level two, which is one step before a full scale eruption just weeks before
[05:07]
B
it.
[05:08]
C
It's sold as one of New Zealand's most dangerous and most active volcanoes. That's in the brochure that tourists kind of can look through before, before taking the tour. So that's, I just sort of say like the culture in New Zealand around what you can do there, the tourism there. You can jump off cliffs, you can go on volcanoes, you can speed around a sound in a jet boat that's part of the cell. And it's. So yes, it's a, it's a dangerous and active volcano that was monitored from a scientific and a regulatory perspective, but also sold from a tourism perspective.
[05:48]
B
And did those tourists who were going to visit had planned their trips, were they made aware that the level that the threat had been raised, you know, level two, level three, that, that it was now more dangerous?
[06:04]
C
Yeah, that was kind of the big question going into the trial. And I guess what was most profound and Moving to me was hearing from survivors and hearing from families of people who didn't survive. But what came up time and again was the refrain. I was in New Zealand, I thought I would be safe. Almost everybody said it once they were on the stand. But we heard a lot of detail around when they were made aware of the level of activity that this volcano was at and it was when they were standing on it. So not necessarily in the crater, but they're off the cruise ship. They've taken the bus to Whakatane, so that's the journey. They've taken the smaller boat to the area around the island. They've taken another smaller boat to get up to its coast. They've climbed this kind of old ladder that leads up to the jetty. They're standing on the island, they've been given gas marks and they're told that it's one level below a full scale eruption.
[07:15]
B
Let's talk about December 9, 2019. How many people were on the island that day? It just, just tell me who was on the island and, and who were they?
[07:26]
C
There were 47 people on the island. That's a mix of tour guides, helicopter pilots and tourists. Mostly tourists, but lots of Australians. There are also tourists from the United States, which we heard from in the trial. Germany, there were some New Zealanders as well, people from China and other countries. So a real mix. But I guess the people that we heard from in the trial, that's where I got the most sense of who they were. There are a lot of people that were nervous about, you know, hadn't done something like this before. And, you know, one woman from America said, you know, I really had to be talked into it. I was so nervous. I just, I'm a, I'm a worrier, I remember her saying. And I, I saw myself in her. I just thought, I don't like volatile things. And I could tell that she didn't either. And so, you know, I wouldn't characterize, I think it's hard to characterize the whole group, but I wouldn't say that they were daredevils or anything like that. It was, it was just kind of normal people on holiday, they'd been on a cruise, they were looking to relax and decided to go on an excursion.
[08:47]
D
And then tell me what happened.
[08:49]
C
At about just past 2 o' clock in the afternoon while two tour groups were on the island. One that's kind of referred to as the deep crater group, they're right down in the center of the crater, and one that was more on the rim, the volcano moved to a full scale eruption, so hit that level three. And we've heard from people that did survive, and we've seen video that they were literally taking at the time, capturing the moment. We've seen photos that were taken in the seconds after. And they're running for their lives. And some people managed to survive, just. I mean, they were horrifically burnt and will be in rehabilitation for the rest of their lives. But by hiding behind kind of a series of rocks, it lasted for two minutes, that's what we heard. And from there it's this agonizing, really harrowing journey trying to get back to that jetty that was absolutely not made for an emergency evacuation in any way. And we heard from a young man who survived but lost all of his family, where he knew he was conscious and he knew he could walk and he was looking at his parents and he had to make a choice about, if I stop for them, I know I won't be able to get back up again, is what he told the court. And he decided to keep walking. And just listening to him talk through making that decision, it was just awful. And you just know that his life is like altered forever. But he made it back to the jetty. And then there was kind of this, this retelling of, you know, if you think about someone's been severely burnt, has steam and gas burns, and they're trying to make their way down a ladder that's probably been in place for nearly 100 years or something, it's. It's just one kind of challenge after another. And then we heard from a young woman who also was evacuated, but
[11:07]
E
she
[11:07]
C
managed to make it to the jetty. She managed to get on a boat. She knew she had to get back to land. And she was laying on the deck of this boat, aware of chaos around her. But at the bottom of the wall of the boat was a hole and she could see land. And she thinks that that view and that sort of kept her alive because she was just able to see it getting just ever so closer over the course of an hour or so. And that's just getting back to the mainland. But it's a very small town. Whakatane is a small town even. I really got the sense that even surviving that initial blast, some of the most difficult decisions, the trauma, the sense of really being just in such a difficult situation where your life is on the line, but you're all of a sudden that wilderness that you kind of wanted to see is now absolutely working against you.
[12:12]
D
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[14:38]
B
G-H-T.com criminal the following year there were criminal charges brought against 13 different parties related to the eruption. And the charges were brought by something called Work Safe New Zealand. Can you explain what WorkSafe New Zealand is?
[15:00]
C
Yeah, WorkSafe New Zealand is basically a regulator, so a government agency set up to make sure that businesses, other agencies are complying with the obligations under the WORKSAFE health and safety laws in New Zealand. And WORKSAFE New Zealand itself was born out of a massive disaster in New Zealand called the Pike River Mine disaster where men were trapped underground, some of them haven't been found and there were found to be likely, you know, problems with the safety of that mine. And so it kind of led to this Brook Commission and this reckoning around what needed to happen to make workplaces safer in New Zealand. So if we wanted to talk about those 13 defendants and what the kind of allegations were, the, the crux of the case was that three individuals who own the island, their company and other to nine other parties had breached their obligations under the workplace health and safety laws and that led to a catastrophic event, mass fatalities. The onus was on Worksafe New Zealand to prove their argument that this was a workplace that not only the people who were obviously at work, like tour guides, but also the people in their care, tourists who were protected under WORKSAFE legislation and then that there had been breaches of that by all of the parties.
[16:42]
B
There's something unique to New Zealand. It's this state run no fault insurance scheme called the Accident Compensation Corporation. I had never heard of something like this before. What is this Accident Compensation Corporation?
[17:07]
C
Yeah, so this is basically a no fault system. So a no fault personal injury cover that exists in New Zealand. So you can't sue a company in New Zealand if you're injured. There's an, there's a no fault kind of rule and that's because of the existence of the acc. So what that means is there's not kind of a health insurance, private health system there in the way that there is in other parts of the world, including the us. Everyone who was injured on that island was taken care of in New Zealand public health system for free. So there's this, there's this kind of two systems that work together where you can't sue because there's this no fault legal framework under which all businesses in New Zealand operate. But if you are injured you'll be looked after. And so that's where a lot of people who were injured, well, everyone who was injured on Whakaari sort of fell, they were looked after while they were in New Zealand, but when they went home there is no way to make a civil claim. So it's these two systems that work together. There is quite a unique model but there are scholars who believe it almost means that you can operate and not really have to really think about the risk and not really have to have an insurance company assess it at any point to say maybe we're not going to cover you for taking people into the crater of an island, of an island. That is actually a volcano like that. That part of the process doesn't happen.
[18:54]
B
In New Zealand, there was a criminal trial held in 2023.
[19:00]
D
What was that trial like?
[19:02]
C
It was fascinating. It was, you know, six hours a day for 10 weeks, a live stream made available. We heard at the start from survivors, family members of people who didn't survive, colleagues of people who didn't survive. So really harrowing testimony at the start where you really got a sense of how desperate and hopeless that day was and that rescue effort was. And then it moved into really technical aspects, like legal technicalities, learning a lot about volcanoes and how difficult they are to monitor and right down to like the clothing that people were wearing and that they should have been. Men fared a lot better than women on the island because women were in activewear. And that's kind of the worst thing that you can be wearing. But if you're in like loose cotton, the burns were less severe. So like we were getting into so much detail about fabrics and warnings and, you know, that the safety equipment was just a gas mask and a hard hat, not anything else that you might wear when you go into a highly toxic, potentially combustible environment. So it was a wide ranging trial. And not all of those 13 defendants made it to trial. Some did plead guilty before the day. The three brothers, their company, and then two other kind of two companies made it to trial. Before the trial was over. The three individuals, the three brothers and the two tour companies had had their charges dismissed. And it was the company that the brothers owned that technically holds the island, Whakare Management limited that was found guilty at trial, but has since challenged that, appealed that and had the conviction overturned in the High Court. So it's really everything that we went through at trial really didn't produce anything. It was only the parties that had pled guilty beforehand or had charges downgraded and then pled guilty beforehand that registered convictions.
[21:24]
D
I mean, what were the sentences?
[21:27]
C
They're fines.
[21:28]
D
Just fines?
[21:29]
C
Yeah, fines and then orders to pay. Pay damages, as you said.
[21:35]
B
I think that there was something that the judge said during this sentencing of the tour companies and that he said that they used an active volcano to make money. That was kind of the overarching theme here. You knew, you knew what could happen.
[21:58]
C
He was literally in the brochure at. And. And that was a big argument of the prosecution, Worksafe's lawyers all the way through and, and sort of part of their argument as to why the brothers were, according to them, liable as well, because it wasn't it wasn't just a traditional landlord tenant arrangement. So the, the brothers, the own. The volcano owner's defense lawyer would say, well, you know, am I as a landlord responsible for the operations and the workplace safety that my tenant, a commercial business is conducting or not conducting? And kind of you logically think about that and you're like, well, no, that would be really unusual. But this is an active volcano. So it is an unusual situation. And it was established early on in the trial that the brothers and their holding company were receiving almost a commission for each tourist that visited the island, which is also not a typical landlord tenant situation. So very messy. And even though the trial judge believed that Whakare Management limited that the brothers company was obligated to meet those workplace health and safety standards and didn't, there was a different school of thought at the High Court and that they ruled that that's not a workplace and that the onus is not on them.
[23:34]
D
So it was thrown out.
[23:35]
C
Yeah, it was dismissed.
[23:38]
D
I think those brothers should have to pay a little money.
[23:41]
C
I think the trial judge agreed with you.
[23:45]
B
I mean, that's a risk. I mean, you have. Yeah, it's like a responsibility to humanity. You know, we see a risk, let's shut it down. But that's just my opinion. I wasn't, I wasn't. I'm not making the decisions. But I would say those, you know, that's a problem.
[24:03]
C
I would say, yeah, I got the sense that it might have been different if this was a different legal approach, but because this was through the lens of it being a workplace, they were able to say, well, it's not our workplace and be successful in that argument.
[24:26]
B
There's still a coroner's inquest going on in New Zealand related to the eruption. What does that mean in New Zealand?
[24:38]
C
Basically, this is where there's been deaths that need to be investigated at a kind of court level. So a coroner can be appointed to say, okay, there might. There haven't necessarily been charges or there may have been, but we think that these deaths, or sometimes it's a single death, is something that just needs to be looked at again. And it's. It's a commission of inquiry that's held in a court setting and we have them in Australia as well. A lot of the time it's pressure builds from families or survivors or something, and it's another level of inquiry. Witnesses can be called, testimony is heard. Sometimes it's open hearing, sometimes it's not. And it's kind of a forensic look and seem to be Much more transparent than maybe a police investigation or something like that.
[25:39]
B
Can any new charges be brought after this, you know, coronal inquiry, when new information, when more information is put out there, more testimonies? Is there that possibility?
[25:54]
C
Yes, it's a possibility, absolutely. The inquiry itself itself doesn't do that, but it might make a recommendation and it might be that it's something like pike river, where they recommend a different regulatory environment, where that gets changed again, that actually this private volcano slipped through and we need to make a change. So the recommendations might not always be charges. It might be something structural to prevent it happening again.
[26:24]
D
Since. Since the eruption.
[26:27]
B
Is Fakhara open to tourists?
[26:30]
D
Can you still go to the island?
[26:32]
C
No, I don't believe you can. I think it was shut down immediately after and it's been very active since then. We saw it get back to a level 2 multiple times. I think even last year it went to a level two. I am not aware that it's been open and I would be very surprised if that was to happen, particularly with an inquiry still ongoing. The appeal in the High Court, you know, only finished up last year. It's a very active place and I think the worst thing has happened and it's changed forever.
[27:11]
B
Has this inquiry, the disaster, has it impacted the way that tourism operates in New Zealand?
[27:22]
C
Have you seen.
[27:22]
B
Has anyone seen any more stringent safety protocols for other volcanoes, for river rafting? I mean, are people more wary now?
[27:34]
C
I'm not too sure. I mean, I think in the. Certainly in 2023, when this was in the news every day, yes, there was a sense that there was almost, I guess, some reputational work to be done. You know, this is tourism and extreme tourism and getting to do things that you can't do anywhere else is a big part of the cell of New Zealand. And that sort of needed to be restored. And, you know, Whakaari erupted in the December before the pandemic began. So there's this real moment where there was kind of business as usual in New Zealand tourism and then a massive disaster that people all around the world were affected by, and then the pandemic, and now it's kind of the aftertime. So definitely a period of recovery for the industry generally.
[28:27]
D
Well, thank you very much, Emily.
[28:28]
C
Thank you.
[28:32]
D
That's Emily Clark from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. We're trying something new and sharing videos of these Tuesday conversations on YouTube. If you'd like to watch, you can find all of our videos@YouTube.com criminalpodcast or just click the link in our show Notes I'm Phoebe Judge. Thanks for listening.
[29:06]
F
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Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: Criminal – "How a Volcanic Eruption Led to a Criminal Trial"

Date: August 11, 2026
Host: Phoebe Judge (B)
Guest: Emily Clark (C), Journalist, Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Episode Theme:
This episode examines the 2019 eruption of Whakaari/White Island, New Zealand, which killed 22 tourists and staff. The discussion explores the island’s unique private ownership, the catastrophic event, survivors’ harrowing experiences, and—most notably—the unprecedented criminal trial that followed, raising deep questions about responsibility, regulation, and the risks of adventure tourism.

Episode Overview

The episode delves into the story of Whakaari/White Island's deadly volcanic eruption and its complex legal aftermath. Phoebe Judge speaks with journalist Emily Clark, who covered the post-eruption events, focusing on the criminal trial that scrutinized who (if anyone) could be held accountable for allowing tourists on one of the world’s most dangerous volcanoes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Whakaari/White Island

Nature of the Volcano
- Unique as most of it is submerged; visitors only access the upper crater (01:46 – 02:42).
- Not the typical "peak with lava"—eruptions involve toxic gases and debris (01:48).
Private Ownership
- Owned by the Buttle family for several generations (02:56).
- Attempts at mining/tourism were mostly unprofitable due to the island’s isolation and danger (03:26 – 04:36).
- Owners received per-tourist commission from tour companies—a non-standard arrangement (04:12).

2. Risk and Tourism Culture in New Zealand

Danger Acknowledged, Marketed, but Minimally Mitigated
- Whakaari is “sold as one of New Zealand's most dangerous and most active volcanoes” (05:08).
- Even the brochures noted its risk, attracting tourists seeking unique experiences (05:08 – 05:48).
- New Zealand’s tourism culture encourages adventure; risk is almost a selling point (05:08).
Tourists’ Awareness of Danger
- Most were only told the volcano’s alert level after landing on the island, not before booking/excursion (06:03).
- Survivors and victims’ families felt a profound sense of betrayal, believing danger should have been disclosed earlier (06:03).
“I was in New Zealand, I thought I would be safe.” — Survivor testimony, recounted by Emily Clark (06:03)

3. The Day of the Eruption: December 9, 2019

Who Was There
- 47 people: mostly tourists from various countries, plus tour guides and helicopter pilots (07:26).
- Not thrill-seekers— many were “normal people on holiday...looking to relax” (07:46).
What Happened
- Two groups were on the island (crater group and rim group) when it erupted at 2 PM, shifting from Level 2 to a full eruption (08:49).
- Survivor accounts: moments of desperate decision, severe injuries, chaos in evacuation (08:49 – 11:06).
- Rescue was hampered by difficult terrain and inadequate infrastructure.
“Listening to him talk through making that decision, it was just awful. And you just know that his life is altered forever.” — Emily Clark, recounting a survivor’s story (10:35)

“She thinks that that view...kept her alive because she was just able to see [land] getting just ever so closer.” — Emily Clark, survivor story (11:06)

4. The Legal Fallout: Criminal Trial

WorkSafe New Zealand’s Role
- State agency focusing on workplace health and safety, created after past disasters (14:59).
Basis of Charges
- 13 parties (island owners, their company, tour operators) accused of breaching health and safety laws (15:56).
- Central argument: Was the volcano–tour operation a “workplace”? Did operators have a duty to tourists under NZ law? (15:56 – 16:42)
No-Fault Compensation and Its Consequences
- New Zealand’s Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) prohibits civil suits for personal injury—everyone receives medical care, but operators cannot be sued for damages (17:06).
- Some scholars worry this removes incentives for thorough risk assessment (17:06 – 18:54).

5. Details of the Trial (2023)

Length and Structure
- 10 weeks, live-streamed, began with harrowing survivor and family testimony (19:01).
- Focus shifted to technicalities, volcano monitoring, inadequate safety gear, even clothing types affecting burn severity (19:01).
Defendants and Outcomes
- Some pled guilty before trial (19:01).
- The three Buttle brothers (owners) and their company went to trial. Charges against individuals dismissed; only the company (Whakaari Management Ltd.) was initially found guilty but later cleared on appeal (19:01 – 21:23).
- Final sentences for those convicted: fines, not imprisonment (21:27).
“They used an active volcano to make money.” — The judge during sentencing, as recalled by Phoebe Judge (21:35)

“It was literally in the brochure.” — Emily Clark, referencing the advertised risk (21:57)
- Significant legal debate: should owners be liable like landlords, or does their commission-based relationship make them more accountable? (21:57 – 23:33)

6. The Coroner's Inquest and Ongoing Impacts

Inquest Purpose and Potential
- Separate from criminal proceedings; a public, forensic examination of deaths to recommend future changes (24:25 – 25:39).
- Crown can recommend further regulatory reforms—not always new charges (25:54).
Future of the Island and Tourism
- Whakaari remains closed to visitors; still volatile (26:30).
- Tourism industry in recovery, complicated by both the eruption and subsequent pandemic (27:34).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Personal Story:

“One woman from America said, you know, I really had to be talked into it. I was so nervous. I just, I'm a, I'm a worrier, I remember her saying.” — Emily Clark (07:46)
On Survivor Guilt:

“If I stop for them, I know I won't be able to get back up again, is what he told the court. And he decided to keep walking.” — Emily Clark, survivor’s testimony (09:53)
Risk Acknowledged:

“It is in the brochure...that was a big argument of the prosecution.” — Emily Clark (21:57)
On Legal Outcomes:

“So it's really everything that we went through at trial really didn't produce anything.” — Emily Clark (20:59)

Important Timestamps

01:46–02:42 — Description of Whakaari/White Island
07:26–07:46 — Who was on the island and their backgrounds
08:49–11:06 — Eyewitness accounts of the eruption and escape
14:59–16:42 — Explanation of WorkSafe New Zealand and legal framework
17:06–18:54 — ACC and the no-fault legal system
19:01–21:23 — Criminal trial structure and findings
21:35–21:57 — Judge’s remarks about using a volcano for profit
24:25–25:39 — Purpose and process of the coroner’s inquest
26:30 — Status of tourism on Whakaari post-eruption

Concluding Thoughts

The episode conveys the human, legal, and ethical dimensions of adventure tourism in high-risk environments. It highlights the limitations of existing legal frameworks in allocating blame and preventing future tragedies. The ongoing inquiries and the closure of Whakaari raise persistent questions about regulatory responsibility, informed consent in tourism, and the consequences of seeking “once in a lifetime” experiences on the world’s edge.

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Transcript69 lines

[00:00]
A
Hey, I've got the campaign brief ready. Built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape approved.
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B
Oh, agents, where would we be without you?
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A
Somewhere with a lot more tabs open.
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C
Create your first Monday agent in minutes@Monday.com
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A
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[00:58]
C
They've climbed this kind of old ladder that leads up to the jetty. They're standing on the island, they've been given gas mux and they're told that it's one level below a full scale eruption.
[01:19]
D
In 2019, a volcano erupted off the coast of New Zealand.
[01:23]
B
22 people who were visiting the volcano died.
[01:27]
D
Emily Clark covered what happened next. She's a journalist on the foreign desk for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Emily, thanks for being here.
[01:37]
C
Thanks for having me.
[01:39]
B
Tell me a little bit about Whakaari, which is also known as White Island. It's off the northern coast of New Zealand.
[01:46]
D
Just talk about this volcano a little bit.
[01:49]
C
Yeah, it's really unique in that when we say volcano, I don't want you to picture this kind of peak with lava coming down the side. It's not that kind of volcano. Its crater is a bowl and when it erupts, it doesn't have lava that spills out of the top. It is gas, toxic gas, debris, rocks with immense pressure that has built inside. And actually that crater is the peak and the rest of the volcano is underneath the ocean. So if you think about the part of the volcano that tourists and guides were able to access that day, it was the very, very top of it. So it's a little bit different in terms of the classic vision you might have of a volcano and an eruption, but very, very dangerous.
[02:43]
B
This volcano, this island which has this volcano on it, it's somewhat unique because it's a privately owned island.
[02:55]
D
How did that happen?
[02:57]
C
States back two generations, the Bustle family, their grandfather thought it might be nice to own an island. He was a broker in Auckland and it became available and he bought it and it was passed down through the generations. And it's still privately held by three, three Buttle brothers. But the brothers have held it and didn't necessarily make a lot of money off it for a long time. There were attempts to mine it, but ultimately that was kind of unsuccessful and too dangerous. And there was attempts at other kinds of tourism. But it's, it's absolute wilderness. It's so difficult to do anything there. It's, it's difficult to even get big boats very close to its coastline. So if you think about the infrastructure that's required to really do something at scale, even though it's this novel place, it's just really difficult and really expensive. But they had come to an arrangement with some tour companies to run these small group tours into the crater. And those were offered on cruise ships that would pull up nearby. Um, it was a really kind of interesting arrangement where it's not. There was a lease, almost like a lease fee paid, but then also almost like a commission paid for every tourist that was on the island. The, the private owners would get a fee. So it was a little bit of a strange structure, not a typical kind of landlord tenant situation. But they sort of did have this, this regular tour operation on the island that the owners were making money from.
[04:41]
D
Before 2019.
[04:44]
B
How dangerous was this volcano thought to be? I mean there were tour groups, there were cruise ships pulling up to the island.
[04:51]
C
Very dangerous. I mean this was a volcano that was actively monitored by New Zealand's volcano monitor. And they had raised the level to a level two, which is one step before a full scale eruption just weeks before
[05:07]
B
it.
[05:08]
C
It's sold as one of New Zealand's most dangerous and most active volcanoes. That's in the brochure that tourists kind of can look through before, before taking the tour. So that's, I just sort of say like the culture in New Zealand around what you can do there, the tourism there. You can jump off cliffs, you can go on volcanoes, you can speed around a sound in a jet boat that's part of the cell. And it's. So yes, it's a, it's a dangerous and active volcano that was monitored from a scientific and a regulatory perspective, but also sold from a tourism perspective.
[05:48]
B
And did those tourists who were going to visit had planned their trips, were they made aware that the level that the threat had been raised, you know, level two, level three, that, that it was now more dangerous?
[06:04]
C
Yeah, that was kind of the big question going into the trial. And I guess what was most profound and Moving to me was hearing from survivors and hearing from families of people who didn't survive. But what came up time and again was the refrain. I was in New Zealand, I thought I would be safe. Almost everybody said it once they were on the stand. But we heard a lot of detail around when they were made aware of the level of activity that this volcano was at and it was when they were standing on it. So not necessarily in the crater, but they're off the cruise ship. They've taken the bus to Whakatane, so that's the journey. They've taken the smaller boat to the area around the island. They've taken another smaller boat to get up to its coast. They've climbed this kind of old ladder that leads up to the jetty. They're standing on the island, they've been given gas marks and they're told that it's one level below a full scale eruption.
[07:15]
B
Let's talk about December 9, 2019. How many people were on the island that day? It just, just tell me who was on the island and, and who were they?
[07:26]
C
There were 47 people on the island. That's a mix of tour guides, helicopter pilots and tourists. Mostly tourists, but lots of Australians. There are also tourists from the United States, which we heard from in the trial. Germany, there were some New Zealanders as well, people from China and other countries. So a real mix. But I guess the people that we heard from in the trial, that's where I got the most sense of who they were. There are a lot of people that were nervous about, you know, hadn't done something like this before. And, you know, one woman from America said, you know, I really had to be talked into it. I was so nervous. I just, I'm a, I'm a worrier, I remember her saying. And I, I saw myself in her. I just thought, I don't like volatile things. And I could tell that she didn't either. And so, you know, I wouldn't characterize, I think it's hard to characterize the whole group, but I wouldn't say that they were daredevils or anything like that. It was, it was just kind of normal people on holiday, they'd been on a cruise, they were looking to relax and decided to go on an excursion.
[08:47]
D
And then tell me what happened.
[08:49]
C
At about just past 2 o' clock in the afternoon while two tour groups were on the island. One that's kind of referred to as the deep crater group, they're right down in the center of the crater, and one that was more on the rim, the volcano moved to a full scale eruption, so hit that level three. And we've heard from people that did survive, and we've seen video that they were literally taking at the time, capturing the moment. We've seen photos that were taken in the seconds after. And they're running for their lives. And some people managed to survive, just. I mean, they were horrifically burnt and will be in rehabilitation for the rest of their lives. But by hiding behind kind of a series of rocks, it lasted for two minutes, that's what we heard. And from there it's this agonizing, really harrowing journey trying to get back to that jetty that was absolutely not made for an emergency evacuation in any way. And we heard from a young man who survived but lost all of his family, where he knew he was conscious and he knew he could walk and he was looking at his parents and he had to make a choice about, if I stop for them, I know I won't be able to get back up again, is what he told the court. And he decided to keep walking. And just listening to him talk through making that decision, it was just awful. And you just know that his life is like altered forever. But he made it back to the jetty. And then there was kind of this, this retelling of, you know, if you think about someone's been severely burnt, has steam and gas burns, and they're trying to make their way down a ladder that's probably been in place for nearly 100 years or something, it's. It's just one kind of challenge after another. And then we heard from a young woman who also was evacuated, but
[11:07]
E
she
[11:07]
C
managed to make it to the jetty. She managed to get on a boat. She knew she had to get back to land. And she was laying on the deck of this boat, aware of chaos around her. But at the bottom of the wall of the boat was a hole and she could see land. And she thinks that that view and that sort of kept her alive because she was just able to see it getting just ever so closer over the course of an hour or so. And that's just getting back to the mainland. But it's a very small town. Whakatane is a small town even. I really got the sense that even surviving that initial blast, some of the most difficult decisions, the trauma, the sense of really being just in such a difficult situation where your life is on the line, but you're all of a sudden that wilderness that you kind of wanted to see is now absolutely working against you.
[12:12]
D
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[14:38]
B
G-H-T.com criminal the following year there were criminal charges brought against 13 different parties related to the eruption. And the charges were brought by something called Work Safe New Zealand. Can you explain what WorkSafe New Zealand is?
[15:00]
C
Yeah, WorkSafe New Zealand is basically a regulator, so a government agency set up to make sure that businesses, other agencies are complying with the obligations under the WORKSAFE health and safety laws in New Zealand. And WORKSAFE New Zealand itself was born out of a massive disaster in New Zealand called the Pike River Mine disaster where men were trapped underground, some of them haven't been found and there were found to be likely, you know, problems with the safety of that mine. And so it kind of led to this Brook Commission and this reckoning around what needed to happen to make workplaces safer in New Zealand. So if we wanted to talk about those 13 defendants and what the kind of allegations were, the, the crux of the case was that three individuals who own the island, their company and other to nine other parties had breached their obligations under the workplace health and safety laws and that led to a catastrophic event, mass fatalities. The onus was on Worksafe New Zealand to prove their argument that this was a workplace that not only the people who were obviously at work, like tour guides, but also the people in their care, tourists who were protected under WORKSAFE legislation and then that there had been breaches of that by all of the parties.
[16:42]
B
There's something unique to New Zealand. It's this state run no fault insurance scheme called the Accident Compensation Corporation. I had never heard of something like this before. What is this Accident Compensation Corporation?
[17:07]
C
Yeah, so this is basically a no fault system. So a no fault personal injury cover that exists in New Zealand. So you can't sue a company in New Zealand if you're injured. There's an, there's a no fault kind of rule and that's because of the existence of the acc. So what that means is there's not kind of a health insurance, private health system there in the way that there is in other parts of the world, including the us. Everyone who was injured on that island was taken care of in New Zealand public health system for free. So there's this, there's this kind of two systems that work together where you can't sue because there's this no fault legal framework under which all businesses in New Zealand operate. But if you are injured you'll be looked after. And so that's where a lot of people who were injured, well, everyone who was injured on Whakaari sort of fell, they were looked after while they were in New Zealand, but when they went home there is no way to make a civil claim. So it's these two systems that work together. There is quite a unique model but there are scholars who believe it almost means that you can operate and not really have to really think about the risk and not really have to have an insurance company assess it at any point to say maybe we're not going to cover you for taking people into the crater of an island, of an island. That is actually a volcano like that. That part of the process doesn't happen.
[18:54]
B
In New Zealand, there was a criminal trial held in 2023.
[19:00]
D
What was that trial like?
[19:02]
C
It was fascinating. It was, you know, six hours a day for 10 weeks, a live stream made available. We heard at the start from survivors, family members of people who didn't survive, colleagues of people who didn't survive. So really harrowing testimony at the start where you really got a sense of how desperate and hopeless that day was and that rescue effort was. And then it moved into really technical aspects, like legal technicalities, learning a lot about volcanoes and how difficult they are to monitor and right down to like the clothing that people were wearing and that they should have been. Men fared a lot better than women on the island because women were in activewear. And that's kind of the worst thing that you can be wearing. But if you're in like loose cotton, the burns were less severe. So like we were getting into so much detail about fabrics and warnings and, you know, that the safety equipment was just a gas mask and a hard hat, not anything else that you might wear when you go into a highly toxic, potentially combustible environment. So it was a wide ranging trial. And not all of those 13 defendants made it to trial. Some did plead guilty before the day. The three brothers, their company, and then two other kind of two companies made it to trial. Before the trial was over. The three individuals, the three brothers and the two tour companies had had their charges dismissed. And it was the company that the brothers owned that technically holds the island, Whakare Management limited that was found guilty at trial, but has since challenged that, appealed that and had the conviction overturned in the High Court. So it's really everything that we went through at trial really didn't produce anything. It was only the parties that had pled guilty beforehand or had charges downgraded and then pled guilty beforehand that registered convictions.
[21:24]
D
I mean, what were the sentences?
[21:27]
C
They're fines.
[21:28]
D
Just fines?
[21:29]
C
Yeah, fines and then orders to pay. Pay damages, as you said.
[21:35]
B
I think that there was something that the judge said during this sentencing of the tour companies and that he said that they used an active volcano to make money. That was kind of the overarching theme here. You knew, you knew what could happen.
[21:58]
C
He was literally in the brochure at. And. And that was a big argument of the prosecution, Worksafe's lawyers all the way through and, and sort of part of their argument as to why the brothers were, according to them, liable as well, because it wasn't it wasn't just a traditional landlord tenant arrangement. So the, the brothers, the own. The volcano owner's defense lawyer would say, well, you know, am I as a landlord responsible for the operations and the workplace safety that my tenant, a commercial business is conducting or not conducting? And kind of you logically think about that and you're like, well, no, that would be really unusual. But this is an active volcano. So it is an unusual situation. And it was established early on in the trial that the brothers and their holding company were receiving almost a commission for each tourist that visited the island, which is also not a typical landlord tenant situation. So very messy. And even though the trial judge believed that Whakare Management limited that the brothers company was obligated to meet those workplace health and safety standards and didn't, there was a different school of thought at the High Court and that they ruled that that's not a workplace and that the onus is not on them.
[23:34]
D
So it was thrown out.
[23:35]
C
Yeah, it was dismissed.
[23:38]
D
I think those brothers should have to pay a little money.
[23:41]
C
I think the trial judge agreed with you.
[23:45]
B
I mean, that's a risk. I mean, you have. Yeah, it's like a responsibility to humanity. You know, we see a risk, let's shut it down. But that's just my opinion. I wasn't, I wasn't. I'm not making the decisions. But I would say those, you know, that's a problem.
[24:03]
C
I would say, yeah, I got the sense that it might have been different if this was a different legal approach, but because this was through the lens of it being a workplace, they were able to say, well, it's not our workplace and be successful in that argument.
[24:26]
B
There's still a coroner's inquest going on in New Zealand related to the eruption. What does that mean in New Zealand?
[24:38]
C
Basically, this is where there's been deaths that need to be investigated at a kind of court level. So a coroner can be appointed to say, okay, there might. There haven't necessarily been charges or there may have been, but we think that these deaths, or sometimes it's a single death, is something that just needs to be looked at again. And it's. It's a commission of inquiry that's held in a court setting and we have them in Australia as well. A lot of the time it's pressure builds from families or survivors or something, and it's another level of inquiry. Witnesses can be called, testimony is heard. Sometimes it's open hearing, sometimes it's not. And it's kind of a forensic look and seem to be Much more transparent than maybe a police investigation or something like that.
[25:39]
B
Can any new charges be brought after this, you know, coronal inquiry, when new information, when more information is put out there, more testimonies? Is there that possibility?
[25:54]
C
Yes, it's a possibility, absolutely. The inquiry itself itself doesn't do that, but it might make a recommendation and it might be that it's something like pike river, where they recommend a different regulatory environment, where that gets changed again, that actually this private volcano slipped through and we need to make a change. So the recommendations might not always be charges. It might be something structural to prevent it happening again.
[26:24]
D
Since. Since the eruption.
[26:27]
B
Is Fakhara open to tourists?
[26:30]
D
Can you still go to the island?
[26:32]
C
No, I don't believe you can. I think it was shut down immediately after and it's been very active since then. We saw it get back to a level 2 multiple times. I think even last year it went to a level two. I am not aware that it's been open and I would be very surprised if that was to happen, particularly with an inquiry still ongoing. The appeal in the High Court, you know, only finished up last year. It's a very active place and I think the worst thing has happened and it's changed forever.
[27:11]
B
Has this inquiry, the disaster, has it impacted the way that tourism operates in New Zealand?
[27:22]
C
Have you seen.
[27:22]
B
Has anyone seen any more stringent safety protocols for other volcanoes, for river rafting? I mean, are people more wary now?
[27:34]
C
I'm not too sure. I mean, I think in the. Certainly in 2023, when this was in the news every day, yes, there was a sense that there was almost, I guess, some reputational work to be done. You know, this is tourism and extreme tourism and getting to do things that you can't do anywhere else is a big part of the cell of New Zealand. And that sort of needed to be restored. And, you know, Whakaari erupted in the December before the pandemic began. So there's this real moment where there was kind of business as usual in New Zealand tourism and then a massive disaster that people all around the world were affected by, and then the pandemic, and now it's kind of the aftertime. So definitely a period of recovery for the industry generally.
[28:27]
D
Well, thank you very much, Emily.
[28:28]
C
Thank you.
[28:32]
D
That's Emily Clark from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. We're trying something new and sharing videos of these Tuesday conversations on YouTube. If you'd like to watch, you can find all of our videos@YouTube.com criminalpodcast or just click the link in our show Notes I'm Phoebe Judge. Thanks for listening.
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