Criminal Podcast Episode Summary: "Ava and the Pickpocket"

Criminal by Vox Media Podcast Network presents a captivating episode titled "Ava and the Pickpocket," hosted by Phoebe Judge and released on February 14, 2025. This episode delves deep into the intertwined lives of Ava Doe, a former pickpocket, and Apollo Robbins, a renowned magician and sleight-of-hand expert. Through their personal narratives, the episode explores themes of deception, trust, and the psychological underpinnings of crime and magic.

Early Lives and Formative Experiences

Ava Doe's early life was marked by upheaval and secrecy. Born in Vietnam four years after the Vietnam War, she lived with her parents, who were staunchly anti-communist, under a communist regime that enforced propaganda in schools. Ava recounts the confusion of being taught conflicting narratives about leaders like Ho Chi Minh:

"Everything I've just learned was wrong." [03:47] – Ava Doe

This tumultuous upbringing instilled in Ava a keen sense of observation and adaptability, traits that would later define her as a pickpocket.

On the other hand, Apollo Robbins grew up in Missouri with immigrant parents who aspired for him to become a doctor. However, Apollo's fascination with magic and sleight of hand led him down a different path. Influenced by his older brothers, who were involved in various illicit activities, Apollo began honing his craft by studying magic books and practicing intricate tricks. An early experience that shaped his skills involved reverse pickpocketing cigarettes to evade store detection:

"I had stolen a guy's watch on the Vegas Strip, and it was a good three, four minutes after I had stolen it. And he realized that his watch was missing, and he was shocked." [01:33] – Ava Doe

Meeting and Forming a Connection

A pivotal moment occurred when Ava attended a bachelorette party in Las Vegas, where she encountered Apollo performing his magic tricks. Intrigued by his abilities, Ava engaged him in conversation, sparking a connection rooted in their shared interests in deception and performance. Their first date at the exclusive Magic Castle in Hollywood was emblematic of their mutual dedication to their crafts:

"What stood out to me that evening was Apollo made a point to turn off his cell phone and put it away." [13:34] – Ava Doe

This intentional act of presence highlighted Apollo's commitment and set the tone for their evolving relationship.

Building the Brain Trust

Together, Ava and Apollo embarked on creating the "Brain Trust," a collective of diverse individuals skilled in various forms of deception, including pickpocketing, hacking, and con artistry. Their goal was to consult for security companies, speak at law enforcement conventions, and offer demonstrations on the art of deception. The group attracted notable figures such as Rod the Hop, a renowned card hustler, and Kevin Mitnick, a notorious hacker.

Ava reflects on the dynamics within the Brain Trust:

"Everyone leaves it at the door where you work, who you steal from, what you steal. We leave it at the door when we talk about skills." [21:23] – Apollo Robbins

However, the lack of structure and differing moral compasses among members eventually led to tensions, culminating in the group's disbandment as conflicting interests surfaced.

Transition to Family and Mentalism

As their professional collaboration waned, Ava and Apollo focused on their personal lives, culminating in their marriage and the birth of their daughter, Maya. Ava transitioned from pickpocketing to mentalism, a form of magic that leverages psychological manipulation rather than physical sleight of hand. This shift was motivated by her desire for a more ethical form of performance and a better environment for their family.

Ava shares a notable moment of her mentalism practice:

"I lied. I didn't trust him, but she put it on." [17:37] – Phoebe Judge’s Interview with Ava Doe

Their relationship thrived on continuous mutual surprise and deception, even within their marriage, as they committed to tricking each other daily to keep their bond lively and engaging.

Raising Maya: A Legacy of Deception and Critical Thinking

Ava and Apollo are dedicated to passing down their unique skills to their daughter, Maya. They emphasize the importance of questioning reality and understanding the mechanisms of deception. This educational approach is evident in Maya's engagement with magic and critical thinking from a young age, as demonstrated by her methodical practice of magic tricks:

"I might need to get a little close... The answer is seven." [34:38] – Maya Robbins

Their parenting philosophy centers on equipping Maya with the tools to recognize and navigate the manipulations she might encounter, fostering a sense of awareness and skepticism.

Reflections on Deception and Ethics

Towards the episode's conclusion, Ava and Apollo ponder the ethical boundaries of their skills. They acknowledge their ability to deceive but choose to refrain from using their talents for illicit gain, especially considering their responsibilities as parents. Ava muses on the allure of a life of crime:

"Do we have the toolbox and the skill sets? Probably, yes. But the cost and the risk associated with that... plus, we have a daughter. What do we want her to grow up to be?" [38:22] – Ava Doe

They recognize that while their expertise could facilitate a life of easy wealth, the moral and personal costs deter them from such paths.

Conclusion

"Ava and the Pickpocket" offers a nuanced exploration of deception, trust, and personal transformation. Through the lives of Ava Doe and Apollo Robbins, Criminal highlights how skills rooted in deception can be redirected towards ethical pursuits and personal growth. The episode underscores the complex interplay between one's past, personal choices, and the desire to foster critical thinking in the next generation.

Notable Quotes:

• “I had stolen a guy's watch on the Vegas Strip, and it was a good three, four minutes after I had stolen it. And he realized that his watch was missing, and he was shocked.” [01:33] – Ava Doe

• “Everyone leaves it at the door where you work, who you steal from, what you steal. We leave it at the door when we talk about skills.” [21:23] – Apollo Robbins

• “What stood out to me that evening was Apollo made a point to turn off his cell phone and put it away.” [13:34] – Ava Doe

• “If they started to cross that line, they'd have to let us know so we could pull them out of the team.” [24:57] – Ava Doe

This episode not only narrates the engaging story of two skilled individuals but also invites listeners to reflect on the broader implications of deception and the ethical use of one's talents.