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Criminal
Captain's Orders (Criminal+)
00:41:53
Phoebe tells a story about an uncooperative plane passenger. Plus, Lauren and Phoebe discuss what embarrasses Phoebe the most, the intentional vagueness of Criminal episode descriptions, and whether or not Phoebe is a "finger princess."
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- [00:02]
A
Hi, it's Phoebe. Today we're sharing this week's new episode of Criminal plus with all of our listeners. We put these out twice a month and our Criminal plus members seem to really enjoy them. They're very different than our regular Criminal episodes, but we hope you'll enjoy listening in. And if you'd like to sign up and get these episodes plus support all of the work that we do here on Criminal, we hope you'll join us@patreon.com Criminal There's a link in the show notes too. And right now you can use special promo code +25 to get 25% off an annual membership. Again, the place to sign up is patreon.com criminal okay, here we go. Welcome to Criminal Plus. I'm Phoebe Judge.
- [00:48]
B
I'm Lauren Spoier.
- [00:49]
A
And Lauren, I have been wearing a jacket and long underwear all day today in North Carolina. The heat has been broken in my house for the past five days. I don't think that I have. My body temperature has gotten above 72 in a week. Freezing cold.
- [01:07]
B
Where's the repair?
- [01:09]
A
It's, you know, I feel like when a state that isn't prepared for cold weather has a spell of cold weather crisis and chaos pops up at every. At every corner. And to get someone here, it's like you're asking someone to build the Empire State Building. We're trying to get someone here, but it is freezing cold. Which is why I have been wearing a jacket for Lauren. I can't believe I didn't tell you about this story. I believe that I did document this in kind of real time as it was happening when I was on the airplane. But I never actually got to tell you what happened.
- [01:50]
B
No, I never heard.
- [01:52]
A
We have been hearing, I would say since the end of the pandemic about airline passengers getting unruly in ways that I had never heard before. Do you agree?
- [02:05]
B
Yes.
- [02:06]
A
Brawls dragged off, brawls breaking out on airplanes. And I hadn't really seen any of this behavior until a couple of weeks ago. I was sitting on an airplane and I really couldn't afford for the plane to take off too late. Cause I was trying to get somewhere. And if the plane was gonna be too late, I might as well just scrap the whole trip. So I'm sitting on an airplane and just like you, I am at all attention at all times during a flight. You are at a. Your attention is piqued for another reason, which is just complete fear.
- [02:43]
B
Keep the plane in the air.
- [02:44]
A
Keep the fear and panic. Mine is just Curiosity. I want to know what's going on, because you and I travel an awful lot, and I have been a Delta loyalist for 25 years. A very high status on Delta. Diamond status, which you are not diamond. I have been diamond since 2023.
- [03:06]
B
Oh, my God.
- [03:07]
A
But I'm not anymore. I just got kicked down to platinum. That's a whole other story. But anyway, so I'm diamond status. And if you have a high status.
- [03:15]
B
What are the perks?
- [03:16]
A
Upgrades.
- [03:17]
B
Diamonds.
- [03:18]
A
Free upgrades. The diamonds? Yes. You just get buckets of diamonds.
- [03:21]
B
No, really, what do you get? Free upgrades. So you buy whatever ticket. And if you're diamond, you're very likely to get upgraded. No matter what.
- [03:28]
A
You are almost certain to get Delta Comfort upgrade. You are very likely to get upgraded to first class.
- [03:34]
B
I think that's a perk of living in North Carolina that people don't think about, is that if we lived in New York City, we would not have any status. But because how many people are flying from RD to Boston at 6am and so the likelihood of getting upgraded is higher.
- [03:49]
A
Right. I mean, if you were trying to go to Atlanta. I never get upgraded. Yes, same. But if I'm trying to go somewhere like Chicago, Boston, Memphis, you know, very good chance I'm gonna get. Anyway, so I had been upgraded. So I was sitting in the first row, which is why I was so pretty.
- [04:06]
B
My favorite seat one.
- [04:09]
A
I was in one seat. So I'm there on the aisle, and all of the sudden, one of the flight attendants comes past me. The boarding door is still open. And the flight attendant says to the other. There's a female flight attendant says to the male flight attendant, we have a problem. And immediately my ears just. I am at attention. And she said, there's a man in the exit row who will not give me verbal confirmation that he is agreeing to participate. You know, when you sit in the exit row, the flight attendants come to you and they say, can I have everyone's attention? And you are supposed to look at them and then give verbal confirmation. Are you willing and able to assist? And you're supposed to say, yes, I will. This man, apparently. So she said this, and I. She said, he's refusing to take his headphones off. He won't look at me, and he will not give me verbal confirmation that he is willing and able to assist in the event an emergency. And she said, I don't know what to do about it. He's gonna have to move. He's gonna have to move. He can't sit there. And the other Flight attendant, the male flight attendant who had been at the front, who I think was maybe the lead flight attendant, said, okay, let's just put him in another seat. And she said, well, I would. I would really like if someone else could go and talk to him, because he's just like, not. He's not listening to me. He's refusing to move to another seat. He's just not. And I can't have him sit there. He's not complying. Which I think, as we've heard about, there are air marshals and there are secret Delta representative airline representatives sometimes fly on planes. And I can imagine that that would be a requirement and if you would want to make sure that everyone had complied. So another man, another flight attendant says, I'll go talk to moving seats. Now. In the meantime, the captain had come out of the cockpit. He was going to use the bathroom and said to.
- [05:58]
B
I don't like it when they do that. Once they go in there and close the door, I want them to stay in there.
- [06:01]
A
Well, the boarding door is still open. So the captain had come out and said, what's going on? And the lead flight attendant said, we have a problem with the passenger who will not comply with exit row instructions. And the. And the pilot said, well, then he's off the plane. And I heard the pilot say this. And I thought something is. This is gonna. What. This is actually gonna happen on a flight I'm on. So the flight attendant who had gone back to kind of say to the man, you're gonna have to move seats. You can't sit there, or you're gonna have to get off the plane, agreed. Unwillingly, he came and he moved two rows behind me where there was an open seat and the flight.
- [06:45]
B
So they were like, sir, even though you're creating a huge problem, we're gonna move you to first class.
- [06:50]
A
He, I think, decided to pick his own empty seat. He, you know, he. Yes, he did. I mean, but it wasn't.
- [06:56]
B
So he got, like, a present.
- [06:58]
A
I don't think they said what seat you could choose to. I think they said, you're gonna have to move to an empty seat. And he just said, well, then I'm going right here. You know, he kept saying, I paid for an extra room seat, which was exit row. You know, you pay for a preferred. So he sits down, and the flight attendant comes back to the lead flight attendant, says, okay, he's moved seats. And the lead flight attendant says to this other flight attendant, the captain says, he's off the flight. And the flight Attendant says, well, he's already moved, like he's not gonna get off the flight. And the lead flight attendant says, well, if he won't get off the flight, then we'll have to call the police. And then the gate agent comes on the plane, and the gate agent says, well, you know, if we call the police, we have to deboard the whole entire plane.
- [07:38]
B
Oh, my God.
- [07:39]
A
The minute the cops come onto the plane, everyone has to get off. And I'm thinking, this is. What do I do? So they go back to the man and they say, excuse me, sir, you actually have to get off the plane. Like, you can't take this flight. The man comes right up to the front there, you know, the little area, and says, I'm not leaving. I paid for this. He said, let me talk to the pilot. I want to talk to the pilot. And I am right there. I'm 1C. I am right there. And I'm thinking, this is maybe a little wild to me, but I'm thinking if things do start getting heated, I could get an elbow in the eye. I didn't know what to think. I was ready. So I think he's going to kind of storm the cockpit. Now. The pilot comes out, is very. He's this Australian.
- [08:19]
B
The pilot agrees to speak with him. Fascinating.
- [08:21]
A
He's this Australian, young Australian man. The pilot and says. He said, you tell the. The man said, you tell me why I have to get off. I bought this ticket. I'm not getting off this plane. I am not getting off this plane. And the pilot said, I'm very sorry, sir, but that's my decision. And you. We need people to comply. And that is my decision. You're going to have to.
- [08:39]
B
Did you know the pilots had this kind of power?
- [08:41]
A
I didn't, but it was very interesting because the way that the lead flight attendant said it to the other flight, said, the pilot says he's off. No. And once the pilot says that, he's off. So the guy's not going anywhere. He's not going anywhere. He's demanding. He's getting confrontational with the pilot. And the pilot says, you can either get off this plane or I'm going to call, or we're calling the police. And the man says, call the police. And I'm thinking to myself, now, that's not the decision I would make. I would just take it up with Delta Representatives 1, 800, and get off the plane. And I'm also thinking, if he doesn't get off this plane and the cops come, I'm Screwed. Totally screwed. And what is gonna happen? Are they gonna take him away in handcuffs? So he's standing right there. And then the gate agent, this. I don't know what the gate agent does. The gate agent who's in the mix says, sir, why don't we just talk right here? That's fine. Why don't we just talk right here? And the man slowly, like just the gate agent is talking to him, and the man's following, gets him to the jet bridge. Right. And the flight attendants slam the door shut.
- [09:54]
B
Shut up.
- [09:55]
A
I'm not kidding you. They slam the door shut and they say, we're. The pilot says, we're going to.
- [10:02]
B
Isn't that interesting? Did they make any kind of announcement?
- [10:04]
A
Not one announcement.
- [10:06]
B
Was the mood sort of chuckling or angry? What was the mood?
- [10:10]
A
The fascinating thing was that the men all around me had their headphones on and were not paying attention. It seemed to me like I was the only one documenting this. Wild people back in 23 had no idea what was going on. It was a really. But it was just.
- [10:24]
B
I would have. I still would have known if I was 23.
- [10:27]
A
Yes, your radar would be up. But the interesting thing was to learn that the pilot does have that total authority to say, you're out of here. And that the gate agent. That they didn't even have to do any formal documentation. All the gate agent had to do was lure him off the plane.
- [10:41]
B
And they slayed slowly, walked backwards.
- [10:43]
A
Yep. And they slammed that big front door shut and we were gone. On our way to Chicago.
- [10:50]
B
Well, I received some text messages, but I had no idea that that was the originating incident.
- [10:57]
A
That was the full. I mean, I might. My text messages, knowing me, they could have been.
- [11:03]
B
They were a little dramatic.
- [11:04]
A
They could have been a little dramatic.
- [11:06]
B
I knew who I was dealing with as a storyteller, so I was able to sort of filter it through that.
- [11:10]
A
Your favorite storyteller on her.
- [11:11]
B
That's right. And you also did send some photos.
- [11:14]
A
I took a video.
- [11:16]
B
Have you seen these videos online? These, like, sort of comedy videos of people's eagerness. Like people holding their trash on an airplane, like, eagerly waiting their turn to, like, politely instant hand it so efficiently and quickly to the flight attendant that I can relate to that when I am sitting in an emergency exit row and I'm waiting for them to make eye contact with me so I can immediately and efficiently give my verbal consent.
- [11:38]
A
Yes, yes.
- [11:39]
B
Nodding, headphones off, fully respectful listening. So the idea even. Can you imagine being one of the people sitting next to that guy.
- [11:48]
A
I know. Lauren. I was also thinking in the middle of the night last night about something that we were trying out, which I was initially worried about because it's something we've never done before.
- [12:03]
B
You mean telling everyone what's coming up?
- [12:06]
A
Yeah.
- [12:07]
B
So this is a post on Patreon where we describe all of the criminal episodes, all of the love episodes, giving subscribers a look at the whole month ahead, everything that's coming out on all the shows.
- [12:17]
A
I mean, for so long, the fun thing about both of these shows and having these anthology shows is that, you know, we get to surprise listeners. Right. Every week. You don't know if it's gonna be a story from 1800s or 2015. A man, a woman, funny, serious. That's always felt like a fun thing to me. And so, yeah, I did wonder if we were. If that would be a bummer to let people know what was coming up.
- [12:41]
B
But I don't think it's so spoilerish. It's more just like, hey, thank you for your support. You know, here's all the ways in which we're gonna make really good on it this month. Here's everything coming up.
- [12:51]
A
Well, let us know if you are kind of closing your eyes and not looking at those emails and those posts which are telling you what's coming up. Please let me know, because I'm kind of in your camp, that I don't really want it. I mean, I really do want to.
- [13:03]
B
Well, we talked about we could do it as a look back or we could do it mid month to split the difference. So it's in progress. Remember we asked in a previous episode, do people like our episodes being our episode descriptions being a little bit vague, or would they like to have, you know, a lot more concrete info about what's in this episode? And overwhelmingly their response was, we love it. Vague. We love it. But then some people did say that after they liked the surprise of listening to the episode, having no idea what's coming, but that then when they want to go back and find something from years later, they sort of wish that they could have it both ways, that there would be like a more concrete way to search, which frankly there is now that we have really, really up to date transcripts. So you could search for something more concrete. You could also always just email us. We're really fast about saying, oh, you're thinking of this one. Here's the link.
- [13:49]
A
I get a text from friends a lot saying, was there an episode about a school bus? Someone stole a school bus. What one was that. That happens to me a couple times a week.
- [14:03]
B
Last episode, we inaugurated a new reading group. We started with a Hemingway short story, which was. This was born out of controversy that I said, haven't we all heard enough about Ernest Hemingway? And you challenged me to read a short story. And we put it up for everyone on Patreon. We read the story. We read a short story, a very, very short story called Indian Camp by Ernest Hemingway. And, Phoebe, I have to hand it to you. You were right about. It is very good.
- [14:34]
A
This is the story of a. Well, this is one of the Nick Adams stories. So it's a young.
- [14:40]
B
It's the first Nick Adams story.
- [14:42]
A
It's a young boy traveling with his father and an uncle. His father's a doctor. To. In the middle of the night to an Indian camp where there's a woman who's struggling to give birth. And it's kind of what happens in this room while Nick is looking at this scene. You know, something a little boy watching a woman really struggling to deliver a baby. And that's pretty much it. I mean, it's a very quiet story.
- [15:13]
B
I think it. I was surprised. I felt sort of like such a cliche because I was so surprised how many times it would move. It would just move away from the action. And I thought that was very, very sad and very good. And I was like, oh, right. This is the whole thing that made him so famous.
- [15:32]
A
Here's what I think. Just keep a little book of those short stories near you, Lauren, and just open it up, you know, and pick a story every once in a while. You might be surprised.
- [15:41]
B
I have to admit, I was really surprised. So what's the next one that I should read?
- [15:46]
A
Oh, I don't want. No, no. You're gonna tell us a short story to read. I mean, what I wanted.
- [15:50]
B
I mean, the next Hemingway. I thought it was a very. I thought it was a real, real, whole emotional experience for so few pages. I really have to hand it to you.
- [16:03]
A
The Short, Happy Life of Frances Maycomber. Okay, I'm not gonna say that's an upper, but a big torted river. I love that. And that's one. That's one I'm gonna recommend. And I'm gonna think you're gonna come back and say, that one didn't. That didn't do it for me, Phoebe. But maybe there is. I know you're gonna recommend a short story, but I think we've talked about this before. You and I both have a hard time talking about this specific short story which is the saddest thing I have read. And that's Ms. Brill, the Kathryn Mansfield short story.
- [16:37]
B
Yeah. I think we should just make that the next pick. I haven't read it in a long time.
- [16:41]
A
I've been. And we both love it.
- [16:43]
B
Yes, absolutely.
- [16:45]
A
Should we do that? So, okay. So I've picked.
- [16:46]
B
Oh, yes.
- [16:47]
A
Okay. I've picked Indian Camp Hemingway. Now we'll pick one that both Phoebe and Lauren do come together on. That. We have discussed this short story for years now, and it's wonderful.
- [17:00]
B
What year was Indian camp like? 1939.
- [17:03]
A
No. Earlier?
- [17:04]
B
No.
- [17:04]
A
Oh, yes. 1919.
- [17:06]
B
1924. Wow. Okay. Indian camp was 1924. And Ms. Brill is from 1920.
- [17:13]
A
Get ready to have some sort of an experience. I'm not gonna tell you what type of experience you're gonna have reading Ms. Brill. But there's nothing I've read that has given me more compassion for people. I think there's something about it that is pretty heartbreaking.
- [17:31]
B
For you in particular. I feel like it's really, like, a touch point for you. You're not the most emotional person a.
- [17:38]
A
Lot of times in my Life. I'll reference Ms. Brill. And I have to. You before, you know, I said that I can't. It's Miss Brill. And the reason is because there was a woman who I used to see with my sister Chloe who reminded me of a Miss Brill character. And she was always at the cultural center in Chicago where my mother worked. And so when things are too much, too sad, remind me too much of times when I've been lonely or tried too hard and no one cared. I say, that's Cultural Center. And that's kind of the inside lingo for. I can't talk about it. It's too much. It's too Ms. Brill. Anyway. Okay, so that'll be our next. And then you'll pick the next one.
- [18:27]
B
All right. Ms. Brill. Phoebe, in the last episode, you referred to your daily smoothie. And we got a note from a listener named Jessica asking for the recipe.
- [18:40]
A
Oh, very simple. Three scoops of. Well, I'm not a serving of your protein powder of choice. I use one because it has no flavor. It's made with mung beans. I hate an artificially sweet protein powder or a flavored protein powder. So I use this one called one. But you could. I think they also make the fake eggs, which I kind of like. But you could use any protein powder of your choice. I'm going to recommend that you go, you know, for a Higher protein without added sugar. I. Then one scoop of creatine. Leave it out or not. One tablespoon of flaxseed, one tablespoon of chia seed.
- [19:22]
B
You're doing all this measuring first thing in the morning.
- [19:25]
A
I know it pretty well. Back of my hand now. Yeah, it's pretty simple. And then I put in about a cup of maybe sometimes a cup and a half if I'm feeling wild, of frozen wild Maine blueberries. This is key. It can't be just organic blueberries. Wild Maine blueberries, Canada's. Okay. Also, I get the bag at Costco, but Wyman's makes one that you can make. Trader Joe's has a wild Maine. I think it's a wild blueberry from Canada, but that's the key, key component. About 2 tablespoons of Greek yogurt. 0% fat Greek yogurt, which I use that. Is it F, A, G, E? Faye.
- [20:07]
B
Is it pronounced like faye?
- [20:09]
A
You use anyone you want, but again, plain, unflavored, no sugar, and about a quarter of a banana. And then I used to put in coconut water, but I don't anymore. I just fill it up with some filtered water right to the top, and you blend it up, and that's the smoothie.
- [20:24]
B
You do drink it every single day.
- [20:26]
A
Every single day.
- [20:26]
B
All right.
- [20:27]
A
Yeah, every single day.
- [20:28]
B
Thank you. Jessica. Phoebe. Also, on the subject of Ms. Brill and Cultural Center, I wanted to ask you three questions from the New York Times Artist series. Are you ready?
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A
Yeah.
- [20:40]
B
Question number one. What embarrasses you?
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A
Dancing.
- [20:45]
B
Ooh, karaoke.
- [20:49]
A
Anything performative like that, which is so.
- [20:52]
B
Funny because you stand on a stage holding a microphone.
- [20:57]
A
Yeah, but that's.
- [20:57]
B
That's different dancing. What about. What if you needed to do formal dancing? Could you enjoy that?
- [21:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah. If I was following a pattern, I could do line dancing. You know, people do. No, I could because it's following something. Do this, do that. It's more kind of a, you know, feeling the spirit of something and dance. Like the idea of ecstatic dancing makes me want to have a heart attack. You know, it's that type of a situation.
- [21:24]
B
All right, question number two. What are you reading?
- [21:28]
A
Well, I. Boy, I just finished that wonderful book about the winter I am reading, which I haven't gotten to talk to you about yet, which is kind of a giveaway, because I really am thinking we should do this for criminal. I am reading a book about murders in Greensboro, North Carolina, called Bitter Blood.
- [21:47]
B
Crimes we've never talked about before.
- [21:48]
A
We've never talked about them. Before. This is a book that came out in 1988 by a newspaper in Greensboro, North Carolina, Jerry Bledsoe. And it's detailing this rash of murders in wealthy Southern families. I. I have no idea why we haven't come across this. The book is about a thousand pages long and I have been told that it is riveting and the writing is fantastic. And I just started it last night.
- [22:15]
B
Where did you get it?
- [22:17]
A
A friend brought it over. He had read it. He had. He had a cold and read it in three days. It's kind of. I think it's out of print and brought it. And I just thought it looked interesting. I picked it up.
- [22:29]
B
This is what we need. We need to return to our roots of basing episodes on old out of print books. Well, I did a lot of that at the beginning. I remember I used to volunteer at the library and all the old ladies would set aside the most terrifying crime books and give them to me. And we would usually not use them, but sometimes we did.
- [22:50]
A
I'm back. I've got one for you. It's a thousand pages, but I'm really. It's a little bit. Sometimes around here we use the term. We say cultural center, but we also say it's a little people dot com.
- [23:01]
B
You know what I mean?
- [23:02]
A
It's a little people dot com. In a good way. So that is what I.
- [23:05]
B
The thing is, everything that's people.com doesn't have to be done like people.com. like people dot com.
- [23:10]
A
That's right.
- [23:12]
B
All right, question number three. Whose work makes you the most jealous?
- [23:16]
A
Lawrence Bohr.
- [23:18]
B
Oh, Phoebe. Wow. Didn't even miss a beat.
- [23:22]
A
Tip of my tongue. I think everyone's work makes me jealous. I feel like I'm constantly thinking, how did they do that in everything? Every little thing, Writing and music and films. And I always think to that, how did they do that? Boy, isn't that good. So I can't tell you because I think about it all the time.
- [23:44]
B
Well, I was gonna say someone's work who didn't make me jealous was the Night Manager, season two.
- [23:52]
A
Boy, I finished the last episode. What was that wild shot of Olivia Colman?
- [23:59]
B
I was upset. I was, like, frustrated by the end of the season and I was really enjoying it. And I thought the finale was terrible. It was so violent. And there was no even kernel of curiosity for us. I thought it was horrible.
- [24:14]
A
Dickie wins again.
- [24:16]
B
I mean, I was like, what are we meant to read into the son's facial expression? Like, I was like, where is the gravity of this. Why are you subjecting us to this with nothing of interest?
- [24:27]
A
I didn't think, well, he's just a monster, right? Just a monster guy character.
- [24:31]
B
Well, no, but that's not good enough.
- [24:33]
A
Listen, I didn't like it either. I was thinking, though, and I was realizing that, you know, there's this big fad about this show, the Pit.
- [24:42]
B
I can't watch it because I don't like blood.
- [24:45]
A
Well, I do like blood. I do like the show. And when I was growing up, we were only allowed to watch one television program a week during the weekdays, and it was er.
- [24:57]
B
How did you agree? Three children.
- [25:01]
A
There was no need for agreement. I mean, we were just all on the same page. It was a very clear. Oh, absolutely, very clear choice. But I realized that this show, they're doing something different. They're not putting them all out at the same time, they're putting them out once a week. And I realized they put this show out Thursdays at 9pm it comes every week. It's the same exact time that ER was put out, was aired 9:00 clock central, so 10:00 clock eastern every Thursday night. It would come out for years. That's when ER came out. And now that's what the Pit is doing, too. Nine o' clock, Thursday night. I thought that was kind of a nice. I mean, maybe I'm making this up, that it's just a coincidence, but I don't think so.
- [25:45]
B
It's weirding me out that during our childhoods, our time, our destination, television watching times would not have been the same.
- [25:53]
A
I know. I always thought to myself, isn't that people on the East Coast, Isn't that odd? Like, they have to stay up so late? It was always. And now that I live on the east coast and I'm east coast time, it is very strange. I still think about that. You know what? Also. Also dated. Maybe you and me. We were in a pitch meeting the other day, and I brought up. I've been thinking about the Tylenol murders and how we wanted to do that story forever, and that the crime was interesting, I guess. But what was really interesting was the panic and how people changed people's, you know, shopping habits changed. How pill bottles, everything. The fallout of the crime. And I started thinking about Jack in the Box. Do you remember the Jack in the Box? Okay, the outbreak, the E. Coli, that many people died. And we were in this meeting, pitch meeting, and I said, I think it'd be really interesting to do something about Jack in the Box and how even to this day I would never go to Jack in the Box. And I was shocked at how few people on the team knew about Jack in the Box.
- [27:00]
B
You mean new? About the brand at all or just.
- [27:02]
A
The big Jack in the Box? The story which I feel is like seared into my mind to this day, don't you?
- [27:12]
B
Yeah, absolutely. It also just. What. What a terrible brand. Like a sort of nightmarish.
- [27:18]
A
Yeah, yeah. Yes. Like I've never been. So I don't know how the food is, but I. But I. I think we may try to do a Jack in the Box story again, focusing on. Yes. The COVID up that the company tried to do. Also the fallout that happened. You think about people just stopped going to this major, major chain because they didn't know and they didn't know. And the mystery of why people were getting sick.
- [27:41]
B
When was that? Okay, wait, Let me see. 1993. A major corporate crisis from an E. Coli outbreak. Wow. The largest and deadliest food crisis associated with restaurants till this day. It resulted in the deaths of four children and it made more than 700 people sick in multiple states.
- [27:59]
A
I think we're gonna do the story. I think there's so many different, interesting angles for that story. So we haven't recorded no interviews for that. And I just brought it up in a pitch meeting yesterday. But I would like to do some research and digging on Jack in the Box.
- [28:14]
B
I mean, the panic I feel if I open any kind of sealed food package and it seems like it's even slightly damaged or like the seal is in some way imperfect.
- [28:24]
A
How about this wild panic that happens to me often? It happened to me yesterday. You get into the car and you have your water bottle there and your water bottle is open and there's a sip gone, but not a big sip. And you can't remember if you took a sip or if this is full of chemicals. This is poison.
- [28:46]
B
But why does that happen when you get into the car? What are you talking about? Like you left it in the car?
- [28:49]
A
Like I took a little bottle. The storm was happening, so we had some extra bottled water. I'm trying to drink through it. That's how. And so I grabbed it and maybe I took a sip as I was leaving the house, getting into the car. Or maybe someone else took a sip and I was telling you the story. Another airplane story. The time I was sitting on a Delta flight and they give you these little bottles of water, and I was sitting next to a man and I took a sip of. Of the little bottle of water and realized that it was his.
- [29:23]
B
And then what? Had he already taken a sip?
- [29:25]
A
Yes, taken a sip. And I didn't know what. I just thought to myself, what happened?
- [29:32]
B
Straight.
- [29:33]
A
Pneumonia? Bubonic plague? I just had this. Yeah, I played it. Yeah, of course I. Yeah, I played it straight. What was I gonna do, Make a big piece?
- [29:40]
B
You could have said to him, I'm so sorry. I think I just took a sip of your water. So he wouldn't drink after you. No, you didn't do that. You did nothing. In our last episode, I said, I want to inaugurate a new feature, which is called Headlines with Lauren, where I tell you some news that you might appreciate and you might have missed. So last time I told you that since 2013, Costco has had Pepsi in the food court, but now they are returning to having Coke. And frankly, we got a lot of response from other people who were also excited about that, so I was happy to share. So I have some more headlines with Lauren for you today. First, object is a term I saw online called finger princess. And I'm not trying to drag you, but I think that you might be one. Do you know what this is? No. It's Korean slang for someone who will not look something up. That is very obvious. So if you're in a group. If you're in, like, a group chat and someone says, like, let's meet at the restaurant at 7. And then, like, three messages later, someone will say, when and where are we meeting? Like, then. So, like, basically, it's the friend who wants other people to do the research for them, even if it's something simple. I think this is you.
- [30:46]
A
A finger princess. Yes.
- [30:49]
B
You will say, what was the name of that episode? Even though you're just as capable as any of us of Googling it.
- [30:56]
A
Oh, I will. Okay. So instead of me going back and looking, I'll just say, Lauren, 100% true. Katie Bishop came up.
- [31:05]
B
You'll be like, what time is the meeting? And I'm like, well, you also have a calendar. We're on the same. Same invitation.
- [31:11]
A
Katie Bishop. Every single month, we're doing expense reports, and some are on mine and some are on hers. And every month I say to her, you know, Katie, I. Can you just tell me the New Yorker? The New York Times. Can you tell me the New York Times login again?
- [31:25]
B
Yeah. And then maybe if she doesn't respond to you fast enough, you'll text me and say, what's the password for the criminal New York Times account? But we all have access to the same place. We can all get it from the exact same place with the same amount of effort. So you, Phoebe Judge, are a finger princess.
- [31:43]
A
Yeah.
- [31:43]
B
Okay, headline number two. Did you know that there was a new planet that was found that is quite similar to Earth? It is the same radius and it moves at a similar speed around a star. So they're saying that it is the earthiest planet yet.
- [32:03]
A
Not surprised.
- [32:05]
B
This is the first planet candidate with an Earth like radius and orbital properties. And so what they're saying it is going to, it is bright enough and it is worthy of substantial follow up observations. Same size as Earth, it orbits a nice orange star in one year, give or take. And it's in a habitable zone. Although they said like at the far, far edge of what's a habitable zone. I thought that was really exciting news. 146 light years away, what country has.
- [32:34]
A
The most lakes on Earth?
- [32:38]
B
Can I have a clue?
- [32:40]
A
You wouldn't expect it. Greenland, in the right ish area.
- [32:48]
B
Iceland. Canada.
- [32:51]
A
You and I went to a museum that overlooked this country across a body of water.
- [32:59]
B
Oh, Sweden.
- [33:00]
A
Sweden.
- [33:01]
B
Fascinating. We went to a beautiful museum called Louisiana in Denmark. But from the museum you can see Sweden. That was a good clue.
- [33:09]
A
Thank you. Well, Lauren, I have been enjoying headlines with Lauren. I hope that you bring some next time.
- [33:15]
B
Great, thank you. And what about three favorite things? What have you been enjoying lately? I can start if you. I'll say a show I was enjoying and I'm no longer enjoying was the Night Manager. I, with all due respect to the creators, but that didn't work for me. So then afterwards I just really needed something that was going to be upbeat. So something I've been enjoying lately is the studio. Have you watched this? The Seth Rogen comedy? I tried and what happened?
- [33:40]
A
Didn't like it.
- [33:42]
B
I mean after that finale of the Night Manager, this is exactly the speed that I am looking for. It has tons of celebrities playing themselves, making fun of themselves. It moves really. The costumes are really funny. Like it's sort of, the costumes sort of make it look. His costumes make it look like it's set in the 70s, but it's not. And then Kathryn Hahn is the brightest light of that show and her performance is exquisite. It's really, it's really difficult to watch Seth Rogen be so bad at his job. But very, very funny and well done. I think that show is a pick me up.
- [34:18]
A
The first thing that I've been enjoying lately is watching not just the televised best in in group Westminster Dog show, but you can go online and type in any dog breed and watch the. The breed judging as well. You know what I'm saying? So if you had a special interest for me, Black Russian Terriers, I could go and type 2026 Westminster Dog Show, Black Russian Terrier judging. And I get to see the group judging as well. Which is really, really interesting to see dogs that look so similar and to figure out why the one that was picked, was picked.
- [35:05]
B
Do you know what I'm saying? Cause are you saying the dog show itself is edited and so you can sort of see the outtakes that might be of interest to you?
- [35:12]
A
Well, what you can see is, you know, let' you have the working group, which I have an interest in. The working group. Every breed of the, let's say, 30 breeds that are comprised of the working group has a winner. So there is a Black Russian Terrier and there's a Tibetan Mastiff and everything else, but I didn't think. I realized that, yeah, they have won earlier that day in a group of 20 other black Russian Terriers. Do you know what I'm saying? They were deemed the best of their breed, and now their breed is gonna try to be the best of the working group. So you can go back and put in a little Chihuahuas, any dog you like, Dalmatian, and just get to see which of these. And I. I think that's kind of fun.
- [35:51]
B
Okay, that's a great. Okay, that's a good one. My number two is a natural deodorant, and I'll not go. I won't go into too much detail here, but I've tried them all, and I thought it was a lost cause, but I'm enjoying one. It's called. The brand is called Nala N A L A. And the one I got is sandalwood and bergamot. And I think it works.
- [36:13]
A
I have strong opinions on deodorant, and I have been a loyalist to one for many years. I know.
- [36:20]
B
I like it, too.
- [36:21]
A
It's not cheap.
- [36:23]
B
The smell of that one is pretty.
- [36:24]
A
Strong, in a good way.
- [36:26]
B
It is a great smell. And I have myself asked you, what perfume are you wearing? And the answer is the Aesop deodorant. Aesop. I forgot Aesop. What is it again?
- [36:35]
A
I say Aesop.
- [36:36]
B
That's not right, though.
- [36:38]
A
I'm just gonna keep saying Aesop if I smell great.
- [36:41]
B
But that is strong. The smell is too strong sometimes. Like you're getting your car and you're like, I can't breathe.
- [36:47]
A
My number two is a new development in my life, which I'm not going to say is going to be practical for many of the people maybe listening to this who are living in apartments or in cities or don't have an interest that would want them to buy one of these. I have recently become the new owner of something called a green egg.
- [37:10]
B
Oh, the grill.
- [37:12]
A
The grill. This was given to us by people who are moving who couldn't take it. And so I've been intimidated by this thing. It looks like a gigantic ceramic egg. It's green and it does things like it acts like a grill, but also like a smoker in an oven. And I was very intimidated by it. But I decided in the middle of the snowstorm last weekend, which was really a non event, that. But I was grilling in the snow, which I love to do, that I would take my time and try to do it right. And I smoked a spatchcocked chicken.
- [37:48]
B
Oh, my God, our lives are just so different.
- [37:56]
A
And I had a great time and I took my time and I did it slowly and I did it right. And I didn't rush. I rushed through everything and make a mess of things a lot. But I took and I thought it turned out really well. So I have been enjoying learning how to use a green egg. And this is a plug for grilling outside in cold weather. It's one of my favorite things. Make yourself some sort of summer barbecue outside. A meal that you would usually have in the summer. Do it this weekend, even if it's cold. Bring it in and you'll just be happy.
- [38:28]
B
I was very surprised as we had two recent snowstorms in North Carolina, the sort of emphasis in the local news on not bringing your GR indoors. And I was like, God, I just don't. That would never even occur to me. Apparently it's the cause of major asphyxiation every year and house fires, because people think they can do two things at once. Warm their house and cook their dinner. Anyway, my number three is a book by Marilyn Robinson called the Givenness of Things. It's a book of essays and she has a sort of thesis that we're living in a time of what she calls joyless urgency, where we are obsessed with being busy and freaking out all the time. Constant anxious busyness, obsession with productivity and a lack of personal fulfillment. And so far, I think the book is really beautifully written. So it's my number three, the third.
- [39:15]
A
Thing that I feel like I'm recommending things and you're gonna think I'm just kind of a supplement nut. You know, I talked about but is a vitamin or maybe it's a supplement. It's called L. Theanine. Have you heard about it?
- [39:29]
B
Well, I know that it's naturally found in green tea. And it's supposed to be why green tea promotes a feeling of well being or like, helps with anxiety and sleep.
- [39:39]
A
And so I've been taking L Theanine and I highly recommend it.
- [39:45]
B
What's the pill?
- [39:48]
A
It's a pill. I did have a dream the other night that I was at a Dave Matthews concert by myself.
- [39:58]
B
Now that is cultural center.
- [40:00]
A
Yeah. So I were dancing. I wasn't really. I wasn't really dancing, but no, I wasn't dancing. I was loitering. But I. God knows how I got to a Dave Matthews concert by myself. And I think it might be the L Theanine. I don't know how well I could have gotten there.
- [40:22]
B
Wow. I mean, that's great. Have you ever been to a Dave Matthews concert?
- [40:25]
A
Absolutely not.
- [40:26]
B
I attended one when I was 15 years old in West Palm Beach, Florida, and it was wonderful.
- [40:31]
A
You know, I see pictures of people who go to these Dave met and they seem to be in a happier place.
- [40:38]
B
Yeah, that's what I remember. I remember people literally, like collaboratively tossing a beach ball in the air with like palm trees everywhere. It was an outdoor concert.
- [40:49]
A
Is it Grateful Dead Fish Light? You know, it's in that same realm of feels a little bit more.
- [40:57]
B
It has like an overtone of sports that I don't think we get. I think it's a little bit more ultimate Frisbee infused.
- [41:05]
A
Not a care in the world. Well, thank you all very much for listening again. You can always get in touch with us. Hello@thisiscriminal.com 833-822-7850. We love to hear from you. And great news. Just got a text.
- [41:24]
B
What?
- [41:26]
A
The heating man is on his way.
- [41:28]
B
There you go. There you go.
- [41:30]
A
Bye.
- [41:30]
B
Bye, Sam.