Podcast Summary: Criminal

Episode: E. Jean
Date: August 22, 2025
Host: Phoebe Judge
Podcast Network: Vox Media

Overview

This episode of Criminal centers on E. Jean Carroll, the renowned advice columnist and writer who publicly accused former President Donald Trump of sexual assault. The conversation traces Carroll’s life, career, her encounter with Trump in the 1990s, the resulting aftermath, and her pursuit of justice through the legal system. The episode delves into Carroll’s personal reflections, the cultural context surrounding her story, the impact on her life, and the major legal milestones that culminated in historic court verdicts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. E. Jean Carroll’s Background

• Carroll describes her vibrant New York City life in the 1990s as a writer and TV host.
  • “Oh, I'm living at 90 miles an hour. I have like three outfits...we'd be running down the boulevards...it was great.” (03:33 – 04:13)
• She explains her approach to advice-giving in her long-running “Ask E. Jean” column:
  • “I’m a cheerleader...I just tell them do it or don’t do it. It’s fairly simple.” (02:33)
  • “Many advice columnists will enter into the very fascinating gray parts. I’m not interested in the gray parts.” (02:56)

2. The Incident at Bergdorf Goodman

• Carroll revisits the day in 1996 when she encountered Donald Trump:
  • “He asked me for advice on buying a present for a girl...Of course, I said, yeah, let’s. Yeah.” (05:37 – 05:57)
• She recaps how a jocular exchange escalated quickly:
  • They went to the lingerie department for a gift, Trump picked up a bodysuit and urged her to try it on.
  • “My intention, of course, was just to see what happened next...But now the door slammed behind me and he shoved me up against the wall and hit my head, hit my head very bad.” (07:27 – 08:45)
• On defending herself:
  • “I was stamping...got my knee wedged up so I could push him out and off. That's all it took.” (09:50)

3. Immediate Aftermath & Response

• Carroll calls her friend Lisa Birnbach, who tells her, “He raped you, E. Jean.” (11:16)
• Both Birnbach and another friend, Carol Martin, urge her differently: Lisa to go to police; Carol warns, “He has 200 lawyers, and he'll bury you.” (12:34)
• Carroll and Birnbach agree never to speak of it again. (12:45)
• The experience led Carroll to stop dating and shut down emotionally:
  • “I haven’t done that since then. I shut it down.” (15:53)
• Despite this, Carroll founded greatboyfriends.com and even wrote a book on romance—a kind of psychological self-encouragement despite her trauma. (15:32)

4. Decision to Go Public

• Carroll was inspired by the #MeToo movement:
  • “It was the Weinstein story...I thought, I've been silent. I'm 75. Jesus, E. Jean, get the fuck over and come forward.” (17:39)
• She wrote her full account in one sitting; her essay was published in New York Magazine in 2019 (21:13).

5. Public Backlash & Threats

• Publication led to immediate online harassment and death threats.
  • “I stared at [an email] and I thought I was gonna get hit with a bullet at that minute.” (21:26 – 22:51)
• Carroll describes how Trump publicly denied her account, saying, “She's not my type,” and accused her of fabricating the story to sell books (23:02 – 23:08).

6. Legal Actions & Historic Trials

• After discussing with George Conway, Carroll sued Trump for defamation in 2019; legal progress was slow until the Adult Survivors Act passed in New York:
  • “It opens a window for victims of sexual assault to make a complaint in civil court against their abuser.” (25:24 – 26:03)
• The first trial (April 2023) resulted in Trump being found liable for sexual abuse and defamation—Carroll was awarded $5 million. (32:07)
• Trump continued to deny, and Carroll sued for further defamatory statements after a CNN town hall.
• In the second trial (Jan 2024), with Carroll testifying, the jury awarded her $83.3 million. (40:15)
• Notably, both Lisa Birnbach and Carol Martin testified in court, corroborating Carroll’s account.

7. The Toll & Resilience

• Carroll recounts severe mental stress, even losing her ability to speak during court preparations (33:32 – 34:17).
• She learned to cope in therapy by just reporting physical sensations:
  • “I can’t breathe. I could answer. That could be my answer.” (34:17)
• Confrontation with Trump in court:
  • “I turned all the way around in my seat, all the way around, and lanced him in the eye...I held his eye, and he held my eye. And then I told him what I wanted to tell him, and he got it. He got it.” (35:41 – 35:53)

8. Cultural & Legal Shifts

• Carroll’s suit and the verdicts led to changes in NY’s legal definitions of rape.
  • “Now the definition of rape includes what Trump did to me in the dressing room...so that's been fixed.” (43:08)

9. Reflections & Life After

• Carroll hasn't received any money and plans to donate it once appeals are complete.
  • “I plan to start a fund supporting victims of sexual assault.” (Implied, 40:44)
• She lives alone, with her dogs and a shotgun by her bed for protection amid ongoing threats. (41:26)
• “He has an enormous impact on his followers. So when he says, she's a liar, you better keep your wits about you.” (42:04)

Memorable Quotes

• “This is why women don’t come forward against a powerful man. You lose your job, and he will retaliate.”
  – E. Jean Carroll (12:34)

• “It's such an old argument—that women have to behave one way and never...she always screams. She never laughs afterwards. She never goes to a party. She never smiles...That's the perfect victim.”
  – E. Jean Carroll (29:32)

• “I never for a minute thought, oh, I'm gonna get a bunch of money.”
  – E. Jean Carroll (40:24)

• “Now the definition of rape includes what Trump did to me in the dressing room.”
  – E. Jean Carroll (43:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• E. Jean Carroll reads online threats: 01:20 – 01:51
• Carroll describes meeting Donald Trump: 04:22 – 08:45
• Aftermath and not reporting to police: 09:47 – 12:34
• Impact on her personal life: 14:07 – 15:53
• Decision to go public (#MeToo): 17:39
• Publication and death threats: 21:13 – 22:51
• Mock trial & worries about “perfect victim” standards: 26:32 – 29:32
• First jury verdict: 32:07
• Confronting Trump in court: 35:41 – 35:53
• Second jury verdict ($83.3 million): 40:15
• Changes to NY law definition of rape: 43:08

Notable Moments

• Carroll’s matter-of-fact humor and candidness throughout (“Can you tell we are drinking out of salsa jars?” [40:34]).
• Her recounting of using laughter as a tool, both in the assault itself and later as defense against trauma.
• Candid description of living with a shotgun for safety due to ongoing threats (41:26).

Tone & Language

The episode is marked by E. Jean Carroll’s signature blend of wit, self-deprecation, and candor. Even when describing traumatic events or difficult emotions, Carroll maintains her characteristic cheerfulness, coupled with moments of striking vulnerability and honesty.

For Listeners

This episode offers an intimate portrait of resilience amid trauma, the complexity of reporting assault against the powerful, and how the legal and cultural landscape can shift through determined action. With candid firsthand narration, legal analysis, and cultural reflection, it’s a compelling, emotional, and historically significant story.