Into the Vault

Summary

Criminal Podcast Episode Summary: "Into the Vault"

Released on September 13, 2024 by Vox Media Podcast Network

Overview

"Into the Vault," an episode of the acclaimed podcast Criminal hosted by Phoebe Judge, delves into one of the most audacious heists in the history of New England. This episode narrates the story of Robert Dussault and his accomplice, Chuckie Flynn, as they orchestrate the robbery of the Hudson Fur storage facility's secret vault in Providence, 1975. The podcast meticulously traces Dussault's tumultuous life, the intricate planning of the heist, its execution, the ensuing manhunt, and the lingering mysteries surrounding his fate.

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1. Background of Robert Dussault

Timestamp: [01:28] - [03:43]

Robert Dussault, born in Lowell, Massachusetts, in 1940, emerged from a large French Canadian family fraught with deception and criminal undertones. From a young age, Dussault was immersed in illicit activities, often participating in thefts during family wakes. His sister Dorothy played a pivotal role in selling stolen goods, laying the foundation for Dussault's criminal inclinations.

Dussault's upbringing was marred by revelations about his true parentage. Wayne Worcester recounts, "[03:23] He grew up in a large French Canadian family, and who he thought was his oldest sister, he learned, was actually his mother. And he was the last one to learn that. And after that, his entire world was rocked."

His partnership with Charles "Chucky" Flynn was both personal and professional, forming a mini criminal organization that thrived on orchestrated chaos.

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2. The Early Criminal Ventures and Imprisonment

Timestamp: [04:17] - [05:24]

Dussault's criminal exploits were diverse, ranging from robbing pawn shops to assaulting police officers. Notably, in 1967, along with his brothers Paul and Christopher, he planned a simultaneous dual-bank robbery. However, betrayal led to the collapse of their scheme, resulting in Dussault receiving a 15 to 30-year sentence at Walpole State Prison.

While incarcerated, Dussault demonstrated his manipulative prowess by usurping control of the prison's stamp collector's club, orchestrating a scheme to siphon valuable stamps into a covert distribution network.

Tim White notes, "[05:24]...the prison manufactured license plates. And Robert Tussault got the stamps into a crate of license plates on its way to the Department of Transportation, where a friend was expecting them."

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3. Plotting the Hudson Fur Heist

Timestamp: [09:03] - [12:07]

Upon his transfer to a lower security prison in Greenfield, Dussault seized opportunities for furloughs, further expanding his criminal endeavors. In the summer of 1975, he and Chucky orchestrated the daring plan to rob the Hudson Fur storage facility in Providence, owned by the notorious mob boss Raymond Patriarcha.

Wayne Worcester elucidates, "[11:34]...the plan was to rob the Hudson Furs storage facility in Providence."

The vault, known as the Bonded Vault Company, housed 148 safety deposit boxes containing millions in coins, jewelry, and cash. Despite its apparent lack of sophisticated security, Patriarcha's influence made the heist perilous, as any misstep could invite deadly repercussions.

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4. Execution of the Heist

Timestamp: [17:02] - [21:44]

The heist commenced on August 14, 1975. Dussault, armed and strategic, entered the Hudson Fur facility, subduing the owner, Sam Levine, and securing the premises. Initially hindered by malfunctioning drills, the team resorted to brute force, successfully breaching 146 out of 148 doors in the vault.

Wayne Worcester describes the chaos within the vault: "[19:42]...they had run out of places to put things...the trunk of the sedan almost touched the asphalt because it was so heavy in the back of the vehicle."

The estimated value of the stolen goods skyrocketed from an initial $1 million to approximately $30 million—a staggering sum for 1975.

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5. Aftermath and Fragmentation of the Crew

Timestamp: [21:57] - [24:17]

Post-heist, the group dispersed, with each member receiving around $64,000. Dussault, alongside his girlfriend Karen Sponheim, ventured to California, while Chucky succumbed to his gambling addiction in Las Vegas. Disparities in the distribution of loot, particularly the absence of $500 bills in Dussault's share, hinted at internal conflicts and potential betrayal.

Wayne Worcester observes, "[23:33]...Chucky keeps coming to Dusalt's aid because he loves them. I mean, they're all each other has at the end of the day."

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6. The Manhunt and Dussault's Capture

Timestamp: [24:29] - [30:39]

Authorities swiftly initiated a manhunt, culminating in Dussault's capture on January 1, 1976, in Las Vegas. His arrest was fraught with irony—possessing multiple fake IDs and a newspaper clipping of his indictment. During interrogation, the revelation that Chucky Flynn was allegedly killed for attempting to eliminate Dussault compelled him to confess, providing critical testimony that led to Flynn's conviction.

Wayne Worcester recounts, "[30:45]...Detective leans in and he says, Chucky's dead. He came here to kill you. We know it. We have sources telling us he refused to do it, so they killed him."

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7. Trial and Testimony

Timestamp: [32:11] - [33:15]

Dussault's cooperation with law enforcement, under the protection of the Witness Protection Program, proved instrumental in dismantling parts of Raymond Patriarcha's criminal operations. His testimony was pivotal in securing a conviction against Chucky Flynn, who received a life sentence.

Tim White summarizes, "[33:04]...Deuce's testimony got Chucky convicted, and Chucky was sentenced to life in prison for this."

Interestingly, Patriarcha remained untouchable, his influence shielding him from prosecution despite the havoc wrought by the heist.

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8. The Enigma of Dussault's Fate

Timestamp: [36:21] - [42:07]

Years later, investigative reporters Tim White, Wayne Worcester, and Randall Richards embarked on uncovering the true fate of Robert Dussault. Official records suggested he assumed the identity Robert Dempsey and continued his criminal endeavors until his death in federal custody in 1992. However, inconsistencies surfaced when family members contradicted the timeline, revealing potential manipulations and lingering mysteries.

Wayne Worcester speculates, "[41:22]...if there was anyone that would pull off something like this, it was Robert D. Salt."

The culmination of their investigation hinted at possible orchestrations by Dussault himself to evade complete accountability, leaving his ultimate fate shrouded in ambiguity.

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Notable Quotes

1. Wayne Worcester on Dussault's Early Life:

   • "[03:23] He grew up in a large French Canadian family, and who he thought was his oldest sister, he learned, was actually his mother. And he was the last one to learn that."

2. Wayne Worcester on the Heist's Execution:

   • "[18:07]...they popped off 146 out of 148 doors in that room that day."

3. Wayne Worcester on Patriarcha's Influence:

   • "[09:24]...if you didn't, you might as well sign your own death warrant."

4. Wayne Worcester on the Aftermath and Internal Conflicts:

   • "[25:16]...He was always looking for things to pass the time and had decided that he wanted to get involved in a scheme to steal valuable stamps."

---

Conclusion

"Into the Vault" masterfully encapsulates the intricate web of loyalty, betrayal, and survival within the criminal underworld of 1970s New England. Through meticulous storytelling, Criminal not only recounts a staggering heist but also explores the psychological and societal factors that shaped its perpetrators. The unresolved questions surrounding Robert Dussault's fate add a layer of intrigue, underscoring the enduring fascination with true crime narratives.

For those intrigued by stories of high-stakes crime and the elusive nature of justice, "Into the Vault" offers a compelling listen that resonates with the complexities of human behavior and the shadows of organized crime.

Transcript

[Phoebe Judge]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Pay. When you've got a gift list to finish, the last thing you want to do is take out your wallet a million times. Instead, pay the Apple way. With Apple Pay, you can pay with the phone you're already holding. Just double click, smile at face ID tap, and you're done. The people in line behind you will thank you. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services, llc, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer.

[Tim White]

Support for Criminal comes from Framed John Grisham teams up with innocence advocate Jim McCloskey in their New York Times bestseller framed 10 True Stories of Innocent People Framed for Murder. In Framed, you'll read about the incompetence, corruption and racism that contribute to wrongful convictions. And you'll be able to hear real people's stories as they fought for freedom against the odds. Read Framed by John Grisham and Jim McCluskey in stores now also available as an audiobook. You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from.

[Wayne Worcester]

Whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather.

[Tim White]

Of artificial intelligence Geoffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well informed colleagues at the New Yorker.

[Robert Dussault]

So join us every week on the.

[Tim White]

New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts. Robert Dussault was born in Lowell, Massachusetts, in 1940. It wasn't uncommon at that time for a family to hold a wake in their home after someone had died. People would come to pay their respects. Growing up, Robert Dussault would attend these wakes in people's houses.

[Wayne Worcester]

He was an avid thief.

[Tim White]

When he got to awake, he would go through the receiving line downstairs and then go upstairs and look through closets and drawers, taking whatever seemed valuable. His sister Dorothy would help him sell what he stole.

[Wayne Worcester]

You know, for Dassault, it wasn't about the money. Reporter Tim White I mean, the money was nice, I'm sure, but it was just about the score. It was about planning the robbery. It was about executing the crime. So he's always scheming, always scheming. Oh, he can't help himself.

[Tim White]

He robbed pawn shops and shops that sold rare coins. He was caught after kicking down the glass doors of a clothing store and was arrested for fighting in a donut shop. He had 13 brothers and sisters. His brothers Paul and Christopher would plan robberies with him. They would follow delivery trucks, and when the driver left the vehicle, they'd steal everything they could. Robert Dussault was a sleepwalker. And when he was 15 years old, he fell 30ft out of his third floor bedroom window at 2am it made the front page of the Lowell Sun. His mother told police he'd been walking in his sleep since he was five years old. But at some point, Tim White says, Robert learned that the woman he'd known as his mother was actually his grandmother.

[Wayne Worcester]

He grew up in a large French Canadian family, and who he thought was his oldest sister, he learned, was actually his mother. And he was the last one to learn that. And after that, his entire world was rocked.

[Tim White]

He started spending more and more time with his best friend, Charles Flynn, who went by Chucky, and Robert Dussault went by Deuce. He got Deuce tattooed on his arm.

[Wayne Worcester]

He loved Chucky. Chucky loved Deuce. They were best friends. They were brothers, and they were brothers in crime. They ran a mini criminal organization together, wreaking havoc together, committing crimes. And that was really how Deuce grew up. He grew up with Chuckie Flynn doing these bad things.

[Tim White]

Robert Dussault was in and out of prison through his late teens and 20s. He was charged for things like larceny by check and convicted of assaulting a police officer.

[Wayne Worcester]

He hadn't learned to drive yet, and that's because he spent so much time in prison.

[Tim White]

Chucky also spent time in prison. Sometimes they overlapped. In 1967, Robert Dussault, along with six other men, including Robert's brothers Paul and Christopher, planned to rob two banks at the same time. They would rob one bank, and then when the Lowell police got there to investigate, they'd rob the other bank. But the night before, someone ratted them out, the police knew about their plan and were waiting for them at the First Bank. Later, Robert Dusalt's brother Paul testified that the whole thing had been Robert's idea. Robert Dusselt was sentenced to 15 to 30 years at a maximum security prison in Southern Massachusetts called Walpole.

[Wayne Worcester]

He was always looking for things to pass the time and had decided that he wanted to get involved in a scheme to steal valuable stamps. And there was a stamp collector's club in the prison. And Dussault strong armed his way into the club and made somebody he knew in the prison president of the club, basically pushed the other guys out. And the scheme was they wanted to hold an exhibition, and they would solicit stamp collectors from all over the Northeast to send in their material, and then they would display them in locked cases, and people and members of the public could come and see And Walpole had some bad press at the time. And so the warden thought this might be a good way to bring some good press by having, you know, this is a community event at Walpole State Prison that Robert Dussault, a career criminal, was organizing. But some robust collectors send in their stamps to Walpole Prison, set them up on stands, and they lock the doors, you know, make sure everything is secure. And when the doors open up, their stamps are there. People are walking around, they're seeing them, and they're taking it all in. But then some people start realizing some of the cases are empty and some stamps are missing. And some of the collectors that are there realize that their valuable stamps have vanished into thin air.

[Tim White]

The prison manufactured license plates. And Tim White says that Robert Tussault got the stamps into a crate of license plates on its way to the Department of Transportation, where a friend was expecting them.

[Wayne Worcester]

Even inside the four corners of a really tough state prison, he was able to pull off a pretty, pretty remarkable heist.

[Tim White]

Robert Tussault was eventually transferred from Walpole to a lower security prison in Greenfield. Inmates were often granted unofficial furloughs to see their wives for a day or drive to medical appointments. And in the summer of 1975, Robert Dussault convinced a prison guard to drive him to Boston. On the trip, they stopped at a strip club.

[Wayne Worcester]

He set up. The prison guard at a strip joint in Boston, plied him with booze, and then he just took off and hid out in a hotel in the Allston, Brighton area of Boston while he waited for help from Chucky.

[Tim White]

Chucky had escaped from Walpole and was in Providence, Rhode Island.

[Robert Dussault]

Providence in the 70s was kind of down and dirty.

[Tim White]

This is Wayne Wooster. He was a reporter for the Providence Journal at the time.

[Robert Dussault]

At the time, the Providence Journal had extraordinary market penetration. The only thing better in terms of market penetration was organized crime. The mob pretty much infiltrated, if you would, most of government. It was part of the fabric of daily life. We often referred to it as a playground for reporters, simply because from one shift to the next, you never really knew what to expect.

[Tim White]

In the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the most powerful organized crime family in New England was based in Providence. And it was all ruled by a man named Raymond Patriarcha.

[Robert Dussault]

He was a pervasive presence, both real and imagined. You know, it was all you had to say was, well, he's one of Raymond's people. He didn't even need his last name, didn't even need to say Patriarcha. It was known, it was understood that there's danger here, you know.

[Tim White]

Raymond Patriarcha rose to power in the 1950s and was respected by each of the so called five families of organized crime. He had a pinball in vending machine business, but he made millions of dollars through loan sharking, illegal gambling and labor racketeering, among other things. Raymond Patriarcha was allegedly a silent partner in a horse track in Massachusetts with Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra. According to the New York Times, people said Sinatra proposed to Mia Farrow with the diamond ring given to him by Raymond Patriarcha. He was always at his office at the National Cigarette Service Co. And Coinomatic distributors in Providence. Chuckie Flynn went to Providence to work with some acquaintances of Raymond Patriarcha that he had met through someone in prison. Two brothers, John and Walter, were met, but John and Walter's parents weren't Italian. And Tim White says that you had to have at least one Italian parent to be in Raymond Patriarcha's inner circle. The Wemettes were trying anyway and told Chucky that they were working on something big. They invited him to participate and Chucky invited Robert Dussault.

[Wayne Worcester]

He was cryptic with Dusalt about this amazing job, you know, this last good heist that they're going to pull off together. And it's going to be so lucrative they can ride off into the sunset. But at first, Dusalt didn't have a lot of details about what was going on. All he knew was Chucky wanted him to lead the robbery. Because Chucky trusted Deuce more than anyone on the planet. And knew that Deuce could walk into any place with or without a gun, by the way, and just handle the situation. Very confident guy.

[Tim White]

The plan was to rob the Hudson Furs storage facility in Providence.

[Wayne Worcester]

Dussault was like, this is bullshit. I have no interest in stealing furs. I don't care how high end these furs are.

[Tim White]

But inside the Hudson Fur storage facility, there was a secret vault. Inside, there were 148 safety deposit boxes with millions of dollars worth of coins, jewelry and cash.

[Wayne Worcester]

It really did not have a sophisticated alarm or security system because it didn't need one. It was secure in its own right.

[Tim White]

It was called the Bonded Vault Company and it was owned by Raymond Patriarcha.

[Wayne Worcester]

No one would ever pull off this heist because it would be suicide.

[Tim White]

I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. We'll be right back.

[Phoebe Judge]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple. Pay. When you've got a gift list to finish, the last thing you want to do is take out your wallet a million times. Instead, pay the Apple Way. With Apple Pay you can pay with the phone you're already holding. Just double click smile at face ID tap and you're done. The people in line behind you will thank you. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services llc, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer.

[Tim White]

Support for Criminal comes from Quince Quince makes a very beautiful Mongolian cashmere crewneck sweater. It comes in more than a dozen colors. The length is perfect, it doesn't pill is very soft and I just got another one in burgundy for Christmas. I already have the heather gray and I wear it all the time. This sweater has more than 14,000 reviews from happy people saying things like this is my go to sweater and love the fit, color and texture and mostly the price. It costs $50. Quince's whole collection of essentials come in 50 to 80% less than similar brands. If you like the sweater as much as I do, you could get yourself the matching hat or the gloves or buy the whole set for someone as a very fancy gift that you will have paid a lot less for than they'd guess. You can get cozy and Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials go to quince.com criminal for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com criminal to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com criminal Robert Dussault and Chuckie Flynn prepared to rob the vault inside of the Hudson Fur storage facility in Providence in the summer of 1975.

[Wayne Worcester]

These were boxes stuffed with the ill gotten gains of the New England crime family of maid members, of associates, people who ran bookmaking operations. Bingo. Illegal bingo operations, believe it or not. Just an absolute treasure that was hidden in there. Who would be dumb enough to rob from the mob? It would be a death sentence. The wildest part of it all was Chucky and Dusalt were assured that they had the approval of the mob boss himself to pull off this heist. Because if you didn't, you might as well sign your own death warrant.

[Tim White]

Why would the boss have given the okay?

[Wayne Worcester]

He felt like his soldiers, the maid guys. The associates had not been generous enough with their operations, had not been paying up that pyramid scheme, and he wanted to send them a message.

[Tim White]

Many of the people who worked for him kept their money and valuables, often stolen, in the safety deposit boxes in Raymond Patriarcha's vault.

[Wayne Worcester]

And look, he was greedy. He knew there was a lot of money in there. And so he wanted to send a message and collect the loot for himself once you had the okay from Raymond LS Patriaca Dussault started feeling a little bit better about this job and what it could mean. He felt a lot worse when he started meeting the people that he the team he was going to lead, meeting the other thieves in this job. This was not Ocean's Eleven here. These were not sophisticated thieves that could crack a safe, you know, and use expert tools to pull off a big heist.

[Tim White]

The heist was originally planned for August 13, 1975. But the day before, while some of the men were cleaning out a van they had stolen to use as the getaway car, a policeman drove by. They got nervous and decided they needed to steal a new van. They postponed the heist by one day. On August 14, eight men got into the van. Temperatures in Providence that week were in.

[Wayne Worcester]

The mid-90s, and the men were all stuffed into a van. There was no air conditioning in the van. They were in full jumpsuits, and it was very hot. And a lot of the guys started worrying. Cops were already on them. Somebody's going to rat him out. This doesn't feel right. Let's not do this. And Dusault just told the guys, I'm walking in that building and you're going to come in five minutes later, and we're starting this job.

[Tim White]

Around 8am Robert Dussault entered the Hudson Fur storage facility. He walked up to the desk and handed a slip of paper to the man behind it, Sam Levine, owner of Hudson Firs. On the slip of paper were four names.

[Wayne Worcester]

And he said, I'm looking for the safe deposit boxes of these four names. And the next thing Dussault did is he pulled out a handgun and he pushed it into the face of the owner. And the guy responded, you don't know what trouble you bring me. You have no idea what trouble you bring me.

[Tim White]

Robert Dussault tied up Sam Levine and the four other workers in the building, made them put pillowcases over their heads, and told them to stay quiet. Chucky and some of the men came in and headed for the vault.

[Wayne Worcester]

But there was a problem.

[Tim White]

They had planned to use high powered drills with specialized drill bits to open the safe deposit boxes. But the drill bits were burning out and they couldn't get through the logs. But then someone figured out a solution with a crowbar.

[Wayne Worcester]

He puts it between the hinge of one of the doors and the door next to it and just gives it a pop. And it turns out the Hinges on the doors were pretty brittle, and with some brute strength, you could just pop the doors off. And that's exactly what they did. They popped off 146 out of 148 doors in that room that day. And one of the hostages, Barbara Oliva, who I interviewed, told me it sounded like manhole covers were hitting the floor. And they'd hear hoots and hollers from the room back there. Every time another door revealed the treasures behind it, they would go crazy, right, because they realized they've hit the jackpot.

[Tim White]

Tell me, what were some of the things they were taking out?

[Wayne Worcester]

So they, of course, went for the cash first, and they couldn't be bothered with the small bills they left behind, the ones and the fives and the tens. They took the $500 bills, they took the $100 bills, so on and so forth. That was first and foremost. They identified silver bars that someone had a stack of in their safe deposit box. They took raw gems, diamonds and gems, and uncut stones. They took a lot of gold coins as well. Once they were able to open the doors and see just how much they were able to get, I think it was stunning to them. They had. There's no way they could have conceived the amount of wealth that was hidden in that room. All the loot was just spilling on the floor, and the men were stuffing it into, you know, giant duffel bags like hockey players use. And they. They had to make a choice because they didn't bring enough bags.

[Tim White]

Eventually, they had to stop. They had run out of places to put things.

[Wayne Worcester]

The trunk of the sedan almost touched the asphalt because it was so heavy in the back of the vehicle that it pushed the nose up into the air, and the trunk was weighed down in the back.

[Tim White]

What did the vault look like after they left?

[Wayne Worcester]

Barbara Oliva told me that it was ankle to knee deep with the stuff that they left behind. So imagine what they took. So, early on, the estimate was $1 million in cash and jewels and other stuff was stolen. That was the early estimate. Then it was up shortly thereafter to $4 million. But everybody knew that was just the tip of the iceberg. That's just what the government could prove, right? Time has a funny way of letting the truth come out. And we put the conservative estimate at around 30 to 32 million dollars in loot that was taken that day.

[Tim White]

It was one of the biggest robberies in the United States. $30 million in 1975 is about $170 million today. Where did Deuce and Chucky go after the heist.

[Wayne Worcester]

Well, where does anyone go after a heist? You go to Vegas.

[Tim White]

Tim White says that each of the men who robbed the vault got $64,000 and that Robert, Chucky, and Chucky's girlfriend Ellen got on a plane.

[Wayne Worcester]

One thing you have to know about Chuckie Flynn is he had a searing gambling addiction. So Vegas was probably not the best choice for a guy with $64,000 in a paper bag.

[Tim White]

They got a suite at the MGM Grand. Chucky was spending a lot of time at the craps table. He proposed to his girlfriend with a ring attached to a bottle of champagne. Robert Dussault was spending his money on sex workers and soon was only hiring one. And then they started dating.

[Wayne Worcester]

Her name was Karen Sponheim, and they were a couple. And Chuckie Flynn's gambling got so bad that his fiance begged him to go back to Rhode Island. And she came to Dusalt saying, chucky won't stop. He's gambling around the clock. He's losing money. He already went through all the $500 bills. And that really hit Dussault because he didn't get any $500 bills. Neither did, to his knowledge, any of the other men that took part in that robbery. So it signaled to Dusault that Chucky had pocketed some of the money on his own and had walked away with more than $64,000. But you know what? No honor among thieves. He didn't hold it against Chucky.

[Tim White]

He told Chucky to take a break from gambling.

[Wayne Worcester]

You gotta get out of here. Take what you have left. Head back. I'm gonna stick around with Karen Sponheim. We're gonna tour the west coast for a little while, and I'll, you know, I'll check back in with you. And ultimately, that's what Chucky did.

[Tim White]

Chucky went back to Rhode Island. Robert Dussault and Karen Sponheim drove around California. Karen drove because Robert didn't know how they stayed in luxury hotels until they ran out of money.

[Wayne Worcester]

He starts calling Chucky and wondering, hey, you know, what about all the other stuff? What about the silver bars and the gold coins, all the gems? Has that been liquidated yet? Like, what's going on? I'm running out of money. I've run out of money.

[Tim White]

Chucky went to the other guys from the robbery, and Tim White says they pooled some money and gave Robert Dussault about $8,500, but he kept asking for more.

[Wayne Worcester]

Chucky keeps coming to Dusalt's aid because he loves them. I mean, they're all each other has at the end of the day.

[Tim White]

On September 3, 1975, authorities announced that they had indicted one suspect in connection with the robbery at Hudson Fur Storage.

[Wayne Worcester]

And they're able to put the pieces together as to who some of the players were and ultimately they are able to get the name Robert Dussault.

[Tim White]

Robert Dussault's picture was on the front page of the Providence Journal. Police called it a tremendous break in the case and the result of a lot of heel and toe work by the state and city authorities. Police also said they couldn't elaborate on how they got in his name.

[Wayne Worcester]

Robert Dussault was the lead gunman that went into the Bonded vault that day and kicked the entire thing off. And just don't think for a second that wasn't purposeful. Guys like Robert Dussault were disposable. They were tissue paper to the New England crime family. They're gonna shut him up, make sure he never talks, and they're gonna kill Robert Dussault.

[Tim White]

They sent Chuckie Flynn to do it.

[Wayne Worcester]

Flynn was told by the mob, you got a clip, Dussault.

[Tim White]

We're.

[Wayne Worcester]

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[Tim White]

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[Wayne Worcester]

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[Tim White]

Support for criminal comes from Framed. If you're looking for a true crime, must read There's a new one that comes from none other than John Grisham. It's called Framed and it's his latest New York Times bestseller. Grisham's real life passion for justice led to his work with Jim McCluskey of Centurion Ministries, an organization dedicated to exonerating innocent people. In Framed 10 True Stories of Innocent People Framed for Murder, you'll read about the racism, flawed testimony and corruption that contributes to wrongful convictions and why those convictions are so difficult to reverse. It's stories about real people and their fight for freedom against all odds. Read Framed by John Grisham and Jim McCluskey in stores now. Also available as an audiobook. Robert Dussault and Karen Sponheim were in Texas when he got a phone call from Chuckie Flynn saying they needed to talk in person.

[Wayne Worcester]

Chucky sounded different, and Dussalt's no idiot.

[Tim White]

Tim White said. Robert Dussalt and Karen Spondheim left Dallas afraid that Chucky was coming there to kill him. They drove back to Karen's apartment in Las Vegas, but Chucky was waiting for them there. He traveled to Las Vegas with two of the other men from the robbery. But Robert ended up talking with Chucky alone.

[Wayne Worcester]

And Dusault did what he always does. He talked himself out of it. He was able to convince Chuckie, I told you not to trust those guys. The wise guys down in Rhode Island. They sent you out here to kill me. I'm your brother. I love you. This is them. You can trust me. I'm not gonna. I am not going to talk. I'm not a rat. I'm a lot of things, but I'm not a rat. And there was a lot of tears in the car. Ultimately, Chucky believed him and said, you know what? I trust you.

[Tim White]

Chucky let Robert go. But law enforcement all over the country were still looking for him. In December of 1975, Karen Sponheim left Robert. He'd been abusive for months. She decided to go to her mother's house in California. But Robert was looking for her and broke into her Las Vegas apartment. Thinking she would return there, Karen told the manager of the apartment complex to call the police. On New Year's Day, police went to Karen's apartment and Robert Dussault opened the door wearing a bathrobe. They let him get dressed and took him to the police station.

[Wayne Worcester]

His biggest mistake was he had two different IDs on him. They were both fake, but that is an immediate red flag to law enforcement.

[Tim White]

He also had a newspaper clipping about his own indictment in his wallet.

[Wayne Worcester]

They brought him back to the station, and ultimately they were able to narrow in that he was possibly Robert Dussault. But he was not giving that up. Providence police, state police hop a flight to Las Vegas. They question him for hours. They question him, and he's still denying that he's Robert Dussalt.

[Tim White]

And then one of the officers asked if he knew someone named Chuckie Flynn.

[Wayne Worcester]

Detective leans in and he says, chucky's dead. He came here to kill you. We know it. We have sources telling us he refused to do it, so they killed him. And that was the breaking point for Robert Dussault. And it was in that moment that he identified himself as Robert Dussault and admitted to the crime and committed to work with law enforcement and with the government in prosecuting the people that took part in it. And his goal, too, was to also make sure that the mob boss got jammed up for the crime.

[Tim White]

By then, the Organized Crime control Act of 1970 had changed the way the Mafia interacted with the police. The act had established the Witness Protection Program, and it went into effect in 1971, about five years before Robert Dussault was taken into custody.

[Wayne Worcester]

They were on a flight back from Las Vegas. They already had. They had Dussault's confession. They had him on videotape. They had agreed to protect him in the Witness Protection Program. That was all laid out now. The ink was dry. And the detective says to Dussault, what I told you about Chucky, it's not true. He's alive.

[Tim White]

Robert Dussault had already told the authorities what happened. Chucky was arrested and indicted along with four others. Robert Dussault and Chucky were charged with kidnapping, dangerous weapon assault, illegal possession of firearms and burglar tools, conspiracy, and multiple counts of robbery. Robert Dussault was charged as the lead gunman and a fugitive for his escape from prison. But he wouldn't be going to prison because he was cooperating. The Womet brothers were charged as accessories to the crime. The state trial was the longest and costliest in Rhode island history. Armed guards were posted in the courtroom. Witness testimony ended on the 79th day of the trial.

[Wayne Worcester]

Ultimately, Deuce's testimony got Chucky convicted, and Chucky was sentenced to life in prison for this.

[Tim White]

There was one name that was never mentioned at trial.

[Wayne Worcester]

This heist was authorized by the Boss himself. Everybody knew it. On the street level, they knew it. Raymond LS Patriaca is never charged. The government is unable to connect the dots all the way to the boss. And that speaks in large part to who he is. This planted the seeds of distrust within the crime family itself because the mob boss approved of the robbery of his own men, of his own soldiers, his own associates from a secret bank that they were told to use because they could Keep it out of the reach of the federal government, of the irs. That started to eat away at the crime family from the inside.

[Tim White]

Raymond Patriarcha died in 1984, and his son Raymond Jr. Took over his post. Years later, when local journalists gained access to Raymond Sr. S FBI file, they found that the FBI had an informant who said that Patriarcha was the owner of the vault and that he had given his permission to rob it. Chuckie Flynn went on to appeal his conviction. A federal appeals court reversed the conviction, ruling that the presence of armed guards in the courtroom at the trial undermined his right to be presumed innocent. The case was heard by the Supreme Court, which ruled in favor of the state. Chuckie Flynn got out on parole in 1989, but was indicted again two years later for drug trafficking, extortion, conspiracy, and illegal gambling. He died in prison in 2001. As for Robert Dussault, he no longer existed. In 2006, Tim White and two former Providence Journal reporters, Wayne Worcester and Randall Richard, started writing a book about the robbery.

[Wayne Worcester]

So my father was an investigative reporter, and he. He actually reported on this.

[Tim White]

Tim White's father, Jack, won a Pulitzer Prize in 1974 for his reporting exposing then President Richard Nixon's tax fraud. It was in response to Jack White's reporting that Nixon said, quote, I'm not a crook. Jack White died in 2005 at the age of 63. Tim White had always loved the story of the bonded Volteist and wanted his father to write a book about it. When his father passed away, Tim decided to do it himself. But there was one problem.

[Wayne Worcester]

We could tell you all the players, some who are alive, some who aren't. We couldn't tell you what happened to the lead gunman, warts and all. He was the lead figure of our story, and we had no idea what happened to him.

[Tim White]

The last thing his father told him, he knew, was that Robert Dussault had been given a new name and a job working for Coors Brewing Company.

[Wayne Worcester]

I don't care how nice you are to the Department of Justice and the federal government, they will not tell you what happened to someone inside the Witness Protection program. And so we were stuck for a long time.

[Tim White]

And then one day, Tim's mother brought him a box of his father's old reporting documents.

[Wayne Worcester]

And in it was an envelope. The envelope was empty, but it was addressed to my dad. The return address was a name I didn't recognize, Robert Dempsey. And it had a number on it, and it was in Colorado. And I'm looking at this envelope and I'm going. Wait a minute. Dad told me the federal government got him a job at Coors Brewing. Coors Brewing is in Colorado. There is no way my dad was pen pals with this guy in the Witness Protection program. That can't be real. Now, it would ring true of my father not to tell his own son because he protected his sources all the way to the end.

[Tim White]

On the envelope, there was an inmate number. Tim used that to confirm that there had been a Robert Dempsey in the Colorado prison system and that he had died in 1992. Because he was deceased, Tim was able to foil the government for Robert Dempsey's FBI file.

[Wayne Worcester]

It took over a year, but in the mail, I got this box of more than 400 pages, and the top sheet. I am not. I kid you not. The top sheet said Robert Dussault, AKA Robert Dempsey. And if my mother had not shown up that day with that box and that envelope, I do not think I'd be talking to you right now. You know, we were able to find out what happened to Robert Dusol, and he didn't change a bit under the thumb of the federal government. Robert Dussault did what he knew best.

[Tim White]

In 1982, Robert Dusault, under the name Robert Dempsey, was involved in the armed robbery of a coin emporium in Colorado. At that point, he was still testifying in trials related to the Bonded Vault case. Federal marshals picked him up at the airport on his way to Rhode island to testify. According to Tim White, the FBI file said he had escaped prison again in 1985 and was caught 21 days later after robbing another bank. His death certificate states that he died of heart disease on October 3, 1992, in federal custody in North Dakota. He was 51. When Tim White spoke with Robert Dussalt's family members for the book, he was the one to break the news to them that Robert had died.

[Wayne Worcester]

And they couldn't believe that he was dead. And then the sister, one of his sisters, said, well, wait a minute. When did you say he was he died?

[Tim White]

Tim told her it was in October of 1992.

[Wayne Worcester]

And she said that, well, that's impossible. He came to our sister's, who was ultimately his mother's funeral in 1994. It's totally possible that they were messing with us, but there's a saying in journalism that is, if your mother says she loves you, check it out.

[Tim White]

According to prison records, Robert Dussault's body was sent to a funeral home and buried at Rose Hill Memorial park in North Dakota. The Only people present at the burial were the funeral director, a man handling the casket, and someone videotaping it.

[Wayne Worcester]

We were able to track down the funeral director that handled Robert Dusault's funeral. And this is weird, but he recorded the funeral with a home video camera, like a VHS camera at the time early 1990s, which is weird, right? I mean, most people don't do that with a funeral. In the midst of life, we are in death. From whom can we seek help?

[Phoebe Judge]

Our help is in the name of.

[Wayne Worcester]

The Lord who made heaven and earth.

[Tim White]

On the tape, you hear the funeral director reading a few passages from the Bible in front of the open casket of Robert Dussalt's body.

[Wayne Worcester]

But when you watch the tape, it's a little odd. Almighty God, into your hands. We commend your child Robert. Robert Dempsey.

[Tim White]

Ensure uncertain hope of resurrection to eternal.

[Wayne Worcester]

Life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Tim White]

Once the funeral director finishes reading, he closes the casket and goes to lower it into the ground.

[Wayne Worcester]

And just as they're about to do that.

[Robert Dussault]

Want me to be taken?

[Wayne Worcester]

The tape stops and then restarts again. We're not conspiracy theorists, I promise you, we're not conspiracy theorists, but we if there was anyone that would pull off something like this, it was Robert D. Salt.

[Tim White]

Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susannah Roberson, Jackie Sagico, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison, Megan Kanane and Lucy Sullivan. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. This episode was mixed by Emma Munger. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see [e-mail] Tim White Wayne Worcester in Randall Richards book is called the Last Good the inside story of the biggest single payday in the criminal history of the Northeast. And you can sign up for our [e-mail] newsletter. We hope you'll join our new membership program Criminal Plus. Once you sign up, you can listen to Criminal episodes without any ads. And you'll get bonus episodes with me and Criminal co creator Lawrence Bohr, too. To learn more, go to ThisIsCriminal.com plus we're on Facebook and Twitter criminalshow and Instagram at criminalpodcast. We're also on [e-mail] criminalpodcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media podcast network. Discover more great [e-mail] I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.

[Wayne Worcester]

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[Tim White]

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[Wayne Worcester]

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[Tim White]

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