Moon Rocks Wanted

Summary

Criminal Podcast Episode Summary: "Moon Rocks Wanted"

Introduction

In the intriguing episode titled "Moon Rocks Wanted," Criminal delves into the captivating story of Joe Goodhines, a former NASA special agent, and his extraordinary investigation into the illicit trade of moon rocks. Hosted by Phoebe Judge, this episode uncovers the complexities surrounding these coveted extraterrestrial artifacts, the lengths to which scammers would go to deceive collectors, and the ingenious methods employed by law enforcement to thwart these frauds.

Joe Goodhines’ Background at NASA

Joe Goodhines served as a special agent at NASA's Office of Inspector General from 1990 to 2000, initially working out of the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. His role involved investigating crimes and ensuring the integrity of NASA's operations during a pivotal time that included the end of the Cold War.

“When you walk around the center, you actually see alligators and wild animals right along where the astronauts or NASA officials would be walking. It's really a different world.”
—Joe Goodhines [02:23]

After Kennedy, Goodhines transitioned to the Johnson Space Center in Texas, where his proximity to Russian scientists stationed post-Cold War provided a unique vantage point for his investigative work.

The Issue of Fake Moon Rocks

Following the Apollo missions (1969-1972), NASA brought back approximately 840 pounds of moon rocks and soil. These samples were deemed national treasures, with strict regulations prohibiting private ownership. Despite these protections, the allure of owning a piece of the moon led to numerous scams.

“Moon rocks are like the ultimate collector's item. You're getting something that was brought back from space by man to earth that nobody is allowed to own because NASA treats them as a national treasure.”
—Joe Goodhines [04:10]

In 1969, the same year Apollo 11 returned, individuals began attempting to sell fake moon rocks. Ads promising to sell moon dust for exorbitant prices emerged, often operated by unsuspecting salesmen exploiting public fascination.

Operation Lunar Eclipse: The Sting Operation

Recognizing the persistent threat of fake moon rock scams, Goodhines devised a plan named Operation Lunar Eclipse to identify and apprehend fraudsters attempting to sell genuine moon rocks illegally.

Planning and Execution

Goodhines placed an advertisement in USA Today on September 18, 1998, featuring an image of an astronaut on the moon with the caption "Moon Rocks Wanted?" The ad included a fictitious address and phone number, setting the stage for his sting operation.

“My idea was put an ad in USA Today with an astronaut jumping on the moon under the caption moon rocks want it?”
—Joe Goodhines [08:49]

Weeks later, Goodhines received a call from Alan Rosen, who claimed to possess real moon rock specimens. Intrigued and cautious, Goodhines engaged Rosen, leading to a series of communications and tests to verify the authenticity of the claimed moon rocks.

“He’s testing us all the way along. He was very suspicious that our intent was to come in and grab the moon rock.”
—Joe Goodhines [16:42]

Securing Funding from Ross Perot

Realizing the need for substantial funds to make the operation credible, Goodhines reached out to Ross Perot, a renowned businessman and former presidential candidate. Surprisingly, Perot agreed to fund the operation, demonstrating unexpected support for the sting.

“He actually said, hey, if you need me to go down there and help you with it, I'll do it.”
—Joe Goodhines [22:25]

Perot’s contribution enabled Goodhines to convincingly present the operation to Rosen, facilitating the eventual seizure of the moon rock.

The Meeting and Seizure

Goodhines arranged a meeting between Rosen and an undercover postal service agent, Bob Krieger, at a Miami restaurant. The encounter was fraught with tension as Rosen remained suspicious of Goodhines and Krieger’s true identities. Nevertheless, the operation culminated in the successful seizure of the moon rock when Rosen handed it over to the undercover agents.

“I took the moon rock, put it in my pants pocket. Had a briefcase. I was armed. The idea was anybody would be focused on the briefcase, not my pocket.”
—Joe Goodhines [24:18]

Legal Proceedings

The seizure led to a legal battle over the ownership of the moon rock. The court ruled in favor of the United States, determining that the rock had been illegally obtained by Rosen and thus was rightful property of the nation. Despite the legal complexities, Rosen was not charged, and the moon rock was ultimately returned to Honduras.

“In the end, Alan Rosen was not charged and the rock was returned to Honduras.”
—Phoebe Judge [29:47]

Aftermath and Impact

Following his retirement from NASA in 2000, Goodhines founded a law firm and began teaching criminal investigation classes. Motivated by Operation Lunar Eclipse, he initiated the Moon Rock Project to educate future investigators on handling high-profile cases involving rare artifacts.

The Moon Rock Project

Goodhines incorporated his experience into his teaching, encouraging students to undertake projects tracking down missing Goodwill moon rocks. This initiative led to the recovery of over 70 missing moon rocks across various states and countries, restoring them to their rightful places and reinforcing the importance of preserving national treasures.

“I would say to my students, this is why it's important that nobody should privately own a moon rock, because we want some kid to be able to walk into a museum and be inspired to do something the way that astronaut was inspired by that moon rock.”
—Joe Goodhines [33:18]

Conclusion

"Moon Rocks Wanted" is a compelling narrative that highlights the intersection of space exploration, crime, and law enforcement. Through Joe Goodhines’ diligent efforts, the episode underscores the importance of safeguarding national treasures and the innovative strategies required to combat sophisticated scams. This story not only fascinates listeners with its unique premise but also serves as a testament to the dedication of those who protect our most valuable assets.

Notable Quotes

• “Moon rocks are like the ultimate collector's item. You're getting something that was brought back from space by man to earth that nobody is allowed to own because NASA treats them as a national treasure.”
  —Joe Goodhines [04:10]

• “He actually said, hey, if you need me to go down there and help you with it, I'll do it.”
  —Joe Goodhines [22:25]

• “I would say to my students, this is why it's important that nobody should privately own a moon rock, because we want some kid to be able to walk into a museum and be inspired to do something the way that astronaut was inspired by that moon rock.”
  —Joe Goodhines [33:18]

Further Information

For more details and to listen to the episode, visit Criminal by Vox Media. Stay updated by subscribing to their newsletter and following them on social media platforms.

Transcript

[Phoebe Judge]

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[Joe Goodhines]

TV when the Apollo 11 launched. It was. I was glued to the TV when Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon. I watched Apollo 12. I was. I watched Apollo 13 and worried about that. Apollo 14, 15, 16 and 17 and I wish that we had 18, 19 and 20.

[Phoebe Judge]

Did you ever think about becoming an astronaut?

[Joe Goodhines]

Yeah, probably not. Was not really in my forecast that that would be something I would do. But about six months ago I almost bought Neil Armstrong's house that was being sold, but then they upped the price and I was out of the market.

[Phoebe Judge]

You almost bought Neil Armstrong's house?

[Joe Goodhines]

I almost bought Neil Armstrong's house, yeah. Six car garage.

[Phoebe Judge]

Do you have six cars?

[Joe Goodhines]

No, but I would have gotten a couple of more.

[Phoebe Judge]

Joe Goodhines was a special agent at NASA's Office of Inspector General from 1990 to 2000 when he first started. He worked out of Kennedy Space center in Florida, where all of the Apollo missions launched from.

[Joe Goodhines]

You know, you're driving into the center past the guards, you're looking at the Vehicle Assembly Building, which is one of the tallest buildings of the world. You have a line of sight at some points to the launch pads, opm, the orbiter processing facilities and so forth. Really cool stuff. When you walk around the center, you actually see alligators and wild animals out right along where the the astronauts or NASA officials would be walking. It's really a Different world.

[Phoebe Judge]

Joe Goodhines later moved to Johnson Space center in Texas. His office was next to a group of Russian scientists who were stationed there after the end of the Cold War. He investigated many crimes involving NASA. Once he found someone was using fake leases with NASA to steal millions of dollars. The man used the money for a pizza chain to make a horror movie and run a candy business. In 1997, Joe Guthainz investigated the cause of a fire on the Russian space station Mir while an American astronaut was also stationed there. Another time, a man showed up at Marshall Space Flight center claiming he was an astronaut. He had sent them a fake resume that also said he had worked for the CIA. He was allowed into the mission control room. Later, he tried to get clearance to fly a jet. Joe Gutheins tracked him down and arrested him for impersonating a federal officer. But none of this is why we called him. We called him to talk about something else.

[Joe Goodhines]

The thing about moon rocks is that it's like the ultimate collector's item. You're getting something that was brought back from space by man to earth that nobody is allowed to own because NASA treats them as a national treasure.

[Phoebe Judge]

In the United States, in most cases, it's illegal to privately own any artifacts brought back from NASA's missions, like Moon rocks.

[Joe Goodhines]

Who paid the money to go to the moon? The United States government. Right. What do we do on the moon? Essentially, we mined for moon rocks. I mean, we just picked them up off the ground. But we had a very expensive venture to go to the moon, collect the moon rocks, and bring them back. And then the United States government said, okay, these moon rocks are now US Property. They're a national treasure. They belong to the people. They belong to history. They don't belong to individuals. And that was the thinking of it. Nobody has a right to a moon rock unless the government that owns those moon rocks gives them up. And the United States was pretty tight with their moon rocks.

[Phoebe Judge]

On July 24, 1969, Apollo 11's crew returned to Earth with 47 pounds of rocks and dust from the moon. That same year, people started trying to sell fake moon rocks. Newspapers reported that a woman ran an ad that she was selling moon dust for nearly $2 an ounce. In Californ in Florida, a salesman was selling moon rocks door to door.

[Joe Goodhines]

He was a vacuum cleaner salesman in Miami. He was knocking on doors saying, hey, look, I got a moon rock from Neil Armstrong. Would you buy it for $5? And there were a lot of people that said, well, gee, that's a great deal. And they bought the dirt that he had in his hands. That, of course, was not from the moon for five bucks. And it was the perfect scam, if you think about it. You go into a party and you say, hey, look, guys, I shouldn't be showing you this, but I got an Apollo moon rock. And, you know, this means a lot to me, but I could let it go for X amount of money, but you can't tell anybody. And they would take it, and they would put it in their safe and they'd lock it away. Of course, at some point, word gets out and, you know, some guy, relative or whatever will say, hey, you got scammed. But until then, it's the perfect con. You don't know about it until months later or years later or maybe never.

[Phoebe Judge]

In 1995, two brothers, Ronald and Brian Trachelman, tried to sell a moon rock through an auction house in New York. They said that astronaut John Glenn had given the rock to their father in honor of his work for the space program. But John Glenn was a Mercury astronaut, not an Apollo astronaut.

[Joe Goodhines]

Mercury did not go to the moon.

[Phoebe Judge]

The Mercury missions were test flights NASA was conducting to see if they could put an astronaut in orbit around the Earth. First they sent up empty ships, then a chimpanzee, then ships with humans. And then in 1962, a ship went into orbit around the Earth. That one was piloted by John Glenn. John Glenn was the first American astronaut to orbit the Earth. He named his ship the Friendship 7 after the seven original astronauts selected for the Mercury missions. He said he came up with the name with his kids. When news about the Trachelman brothers fake rock broke, John Glenn issued a statement. He had never owned a moon rock and had never given anyone a moon rock as a gift. Ronald and Brian Trachelman were charged with conspiracy and wire fraud. A man named Richard Keith Mountain said he had moon dust from the Apollo 11 mission. Between 1996 and 1998, he sold it to people in the United States, Canada, and Australia. He said the dust had been verified by Buzz Aldrin. A NASA laboratory tested the dust and said it was not from the moon. Richard mountain made over $90,000. He was sentenced to nearly two years in prison. Joe Goodhines didn't see the fake moon rock market ending anytime soon, so he came up with a plan. He called it Operation Lunar Eclipse.

[Joe Goodhines]

My idea was put an ad in USA Today with an astronaut jumping on the moon under the caption moon rocks want it? And then putting our fictitious address in their phone number to contact when someone Called the number.

[Phoebe Judge]

It would ring a recorded phone line, an answering machine in Joe's office at NASA. The message would say that they had reached a company called John's Estate Sales. Joe would pretend to be a man named Tony Corioso.

[Joe Goodhines]

Koryasu was actually taken from my uncle Dr. Koryasu's last name. And I had a rich buyer, and I was who's interested in all things NASA? And you tell me you got a moon rock. We're very interested. Let's talk more.

[Phoebe Judge]

The ad ran on September 18, 1998. About two weeks later, Joe Goodhines got a phone call.

[Joe Goodhines]

I get a call from a guy by the name of Rosenberg Alan Rosen. He says, tony, you know all those guys they're calling you about Boon Rocks. That's bull. He said, I've got the real thing. And I'm going like, okay. He said, tony, here's my web address. I want you to click this in and take a look at what I got. And I click it in and it's this huge long thing. It's not, you know, a short deal with a bunch of symbols, the whole nine yards. I pull it up and I see a 10 by 14 inch plaque with a Lucite Paul with a rock in it, the flag of recipient country, and two metal plates. And I kick back and I go, this is unlike anything we expected to see. It's unlike any scam that I've ever heard of. I thought to myself, oh, this is the real thing. When we started Operation Lunar Eclipse, I was looking for con artists selling bogus moon rocks. I was not looking for people selling real moon rocks. I didn't even know it was a problem. Nobody knew it was a problem.

[Phoebe Judge]

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[Joe Goodhines]

The plaque the center of the flag was blacked out and the name of the recipient country was blacked out. I find out that in Central and South America there are half Dozen countries with the identical flag, except for the center of the flag. And so what he was telling me, it's one of these six countries. And so I start to check around.

[Phoebe Judge]

He started calling government officials in the six countries, but no one knew where the rocks were. Joe set up a call between Alan Rosen and an agent from the U.S. postal Service who was undercover as John Marta. The man interested in buying a moon rock. His real name was Bob Krieger. When he asked Alan Rosen about the history of the rock, Alan Rosen claimed he had bought it from a retired colonel in Central America. Bob Krieger asked if they could meet in person. They arranged to meet at a restaurant called Tuna's in Miami. Instead of their usual suits, Joe Goodhines and Bob Krieger dress casually.

[Joe Goodhines]

I've kind of got a windbreaker on and I got my Glock and my belt in the back. Krieger has a fanny pack on and he has his gun there under his windbreaker.

[Phoebe Judge]

Joe Guthaines was also wearing a wire. Two U.S. customs agents were stationed two blocks away, listening in.

[Joe Goodhines]

So Alan Rosen comes in and another guy who he identifies as his financial advisor. And we sit down.

[Phoebe Judge]

Is he suspicious of you?

[Joe Goodhines]

Always. He would tell me from day one that he thought we were undercover agents. They didn't trust us, that he was very suspicious that our intent was to kick in the door and grab the moon rock. You know, he wasn't a dumb guy. He had some brains, and he was. He was testing us all the way along.

[Phoebe Judge]

Alan Rosen told Joe Goodhines that he was nervous that people were looking for him.

[Joe Goodhines]

He's talking about how he half expects some South American military paramilitary guys to come around the the side of the wall with AK47s or something like that.

[Phoebe Judge]

Joe Goodhind asked how the rock had been brought into the country. He wanted him to admit to smuggling it in. But all Alan Rosen would say was that there was no paper trail. He had brought photographs of the rock, but not the real thing. He said he still didn't trust them. Yet eventually, Joe Goodhines told Alan Rosen that. That he wanted to buy the moon rock.

[Joe Goodhines]

I said, I want the whole moon rock. I want the plaque. I want the whole nine yards.

[Phoebe Judge]

And Alan said he wanted $5 million. NASA considers moon rocks priceless because they're so rare it's hard to put a value on them. But in 2002, three interns at NASA stole a safe containing moon rocks from Johnson Space Center. During the trial, NASA estimated that based on how much the Apollo mission had Cost to retrieve these samples. Each gram of moon rock that had been stolen was worth about $50,000 in 1973. Today, that would be nearly $370,000 per gram. After their meeting with Alan Rosen, Joe Guthains and Bob Krieger drove back to Texas from Miami.

[Joe Goodhines]

And Rosen calls again. He says, I think. I think this is a sting operation. I think you're undercover agents. I said, how can we prove it? He said, give me five customers from John's Estate Sales right now. I'm going to call them right now, and I'm going to. To see if there really is a John's Estate Sales. So Krieger and I start calling five agents at home. I say, hey, look, you're going to get a call. Sorry about this. You're now a customer. John's Estate Sales. The inspector general, Roberta Gross, wonderful inspector General, good person, was not happy that I gave up the phone numbers of private phone numbers of five agents.

[Phoebe Judge]

Alan Rosen was satisfied. Afterwards, Joe heard that NASA arranged for the agents to get new phone numbers.

[Joe Goodhines]

It sold it. He believed that there was a John's Estate Sales after that because he couldn't believe that anybody would set that up in the middle of the night like that.

[Phoebe Judge]

So you pass the test. He calls these fake clients and agrees to sell the rock. But he was asking for a lot of money.

[Joe Goodhines]

That was test one. Test two comes up. He wants proof that we have $5 million to buy the moon rock. I go, hey, no problem. Call NASA. Hey, can you. Can you set aside $5 million for the sting operation? No FBI, no postal, no. We went to DC. Somebody even called the CIA. No, nobody had $5 billion.

[Phoebe Judge]

And then Joe Goodhines got an idea.

[Joe Goodhines]

My father was a big fan of Ross Perot. My father was a career marine, and Ross Perot was known to be good to the military.

[Phoebe Judge]

Ross Perot had served in the US Navy as a young man. He became a millionaire in 1968. When his technology company went public on the stock market. In the 1970s, he tried to rescue two of his company's executives who'd been arrested during the Iranian Revolution. In 1989, someone poisoned the Treaty Oak in Austin, Texas, which has been called the most perfect specimen of any living tree in the country. We did an episode about it called Perfect Specimen. Ross Perot got involved, offering a blank check to save the tree. We called him for that episode.

[Ross Perot]

And they called me and they asked me and I did it. And that's all I can tell you.

[Phoebe Judge]

Joe Goodhines wondered if Ross Perot would help with money for the moon rock.

[Joe Goodhines]

I'm looking at Krieger. I'm going, I wonder what would happen if I called up Ross Perot's company in Dallas and asked him if he could come up with 5 million bucks.

[Phoebe Judge]

This was six years after Ross Perot had run for president. Joe Goodhines got Ross Perot secretary.

[Joe Goodhines]

And I basically said, look, I'm with NASA. I'm a special agent, and we have a sting operation that we're doing, and we need his help. And so she says, okay, I'll let him know. And so I literally hanging up the phone, looking at Krieger, and I'm going like, can you believe that? I got through to his personal secretary.

[Phoebe Judge]

A half hour later, Joe Good hines his phone rang.

[Joe Goodhines]

I mean, that quick, ring, ring, pick up the phone. Hello, Joe, this is Ross Pro. How can I help you?

[Phoebe Judge]

When he explained Operation Lunar Eclipse, Ross Perot said yes, he would give them the money.

[Joe Goodhines]

He actually said, hey, if you need me to go down there and help you with it, I'll do it. I'm going like, no. I got into a bit of a pickle on this. I didn't go through my chain of command to ask about calling Ross Perot. I just did it.

[Phoebe Judge]

Ross Perot sent the money to an account at the same bank in Miami where Alan Rosen was keeping the moon rock in a safe deposit box. Joe Goodhines got a letter from the bank's vice president as proof of funds for Alan Rosen. Alan Rosen agreed to sell the rock, but he didn't want to do the deal directly. He wanted to go through an intermediary. He wanted the intermediary to meet him in Miami. And before he'd show anyone the rock, he wanted Joe to prove he was in Texas, not Florida.

[Joe Goodhines]

I said, okay, how can I do that? Stand by your phones. I'm going to call you now. Rosen, he was a smart guy, but I don't think he understood the way cell phones work. And I'm going like, my phones are cell phones. So that area code goes wherever I go. But I'm not going to tell him that.

[Phoebe Judge]

The plan was for Alan Rosen to meet with a bank employee who would photograph the rock and send it to Joe as proof that the rock was real. But the bank employee was actually an undercover agent from U.S. customs. When Alan Rosen opened the safe deposit box and handed over the moon rock, the customs agent presented him with a warrant.

[Joe Goodhines]

So we seized the moon rock later that day. I took the moon rock, put it in my pants pocket. Had a briefcase. I had my Glock in my. Underneath my jacket, coat, board the plane armed with the briefcase, never leaving my hand. And the bottom line was the, you know, the idea was anybody would be focused on the briefcase, not my pocket. So I walked around with 5 million bucks in my pocket for. For a day or so.

[Phoebe Judge]

Well, how big is $5 million?

[Joe Goodhines]

1.142 grams. A little Lou. Pebble. Little pebble.

[Phoebe Judge]

So you were just carrying this little pebble around in your pocket for a day? I mean, was it in something special? Did you wrap it up a little bit, or.

[Joe Goodhines]

No, it was just in my pocket. Just in my pocket. Didn't try to make any type of big deal about it. If anybody noticed me at all, I want to notice the briefcase. You know, the idea, they could knock me down, take the briefcase. But the moon rock was going to be secure. And, you know, nobody really knew at that point that we had a seized a moon rock, right? So it was not like anybody was looking for me walking on the plane with the moon rock. And I gotta tell you, I've felt the moon rock, and it feels like a rock.

[Phoebe Judge]

No magical powers coming out of it.

[Joe Goodhines]

No magical powers. None.

[Phoebe Judge]

We'll be right back.

[Ross Perot]

Okay, business leaders, are you playing defense or are you on the offense? Are you just. Excuse me. Hey, I'm trying to talk business here. As I was saying, are you here just to play or are you playing to win? If you're in it to win, meet your next MVP NetSuite by Oracle NetSuite is your full business management system in one suite. With Netsuite, you're running your accounting, your financials, hr, e commerce, and more, all from your online dashboard. One source of truth means every department's working from the same numbers. With no data delays. And with AI embedded throughout, you're automating manual tasks plus getting fast insights for your next move. Whether you're competing on your home turf or looking to conquer international markets, NetSuite helps you get the W. Over 40,000 businesses have already made the move to NetSuite, the number one Cloud ERP right now.

[Joe Goodhines]

Get the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com criminal get this free guide at netsuite.com criminal okay, guys.

[Phoebe Judge]

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[Joe Goodhines]

Celebratory it was like a major victory. Everybody was giving high fives. It was really something that nobody had ever seen before. It was certainly not the way we expected our case to go. And so it was high fives all around.

[Phoebe Judge]

In 2001, the rock was taken to Miami. It was met by a team of customs agents at the airport. It wasn't clear if the rock had been stolen or not by the Honduran colonel. So it wasn't clear if Alan Rosen had done anything wrong or if the United States had the right to seize the rock from Allen Rosen. There was a trial. United States versus one lucite ball containing lunar material, one moon rock, and one 10 inch by 14 inch wooden plaque. The court decided that the colonel had illegally gotten the rock from the President of Honduras and the United States did have the right to seize it from Alan Rosenberg. But in the end, Alan Rosen was not charged and the rock was returned to Honduras.

[Joe Goodhines]

I would actually fly to D.C. and be present when they presented the moon rock to the Ambassador of Honduras, who had his son present was very cool. He seemed to love the moon rock.

[Phoebe Judge]

It's now in a Children's Museum. In 2000, Joe Guthainz retired from NASA. He opened a law firm with his sons and he started teaching criminal investigation classes. One day a friend of Joe's told him, you're the only one teaching who used to work at NASA.

[Joe Goodhines]

My mentor said, you should incorporate something in your class that's unique to your experience. And I thought immediately moon rocks.

[Phoebe Judge]

After Operation Lunar Eclipse Joe realized that many Goodwill rocks were unaccounted for.

[Joe Goodhines]

The countries I was contacting, nobody seemed to know where their moon rocks were. So I'm going like, okay, I'll create what I'm going to call the moon rock project and teach my future investigators how to conduct an investigation that's safe because I'm not going to allow them to interface with people only over the phone, over the lines and so forth. They could go to museums, but that was the extent of it. No face to face type things. And so the bottom line was that my students, basically, they were coming back with goose eggs.

[Phoebe Judge]

As part of their project, his students were supposed to publish an editorial in a local newspaper with their findings. In Alaska, one of his students found that the state's moon rock was supposed to be in the Alaska Transportation Museum, but it had disappeared after a fire. In 1973, when she published her findings in the Capital City Weekly, a man named Coleman Anderson came forward claiming he had the moon rock.

[Joe Goodhines]

Anderson is one of the skippers from the first season of the Deadliest Catch.

[Phoebe Judge]

He claimed he found the moon moon rock after the fire when he was a teenager. He thought it was a, quote, neat souvenir. Coleman Anderson sued the state of Alaska. He wanted to be given legal ownership of the rock or to be paid for its return.

[Joe Goodhines]

And so they had a lawsuit that went through. And long story short, he loses, and NASA gets back the moon rock, which now is in the hands of Alaska.

[Phoebe Judge]

Another one of his students found that Colorado was missing its moon rock. No one had seen it for years. Governor John Vanderhoof had accepted it on behalf of the state in 1974.

[Joe Goodhines]

So there's a front page story about the conclusions of his investigation. That day, John Vanderhoof picks up a phone, says, I got it. It's been on my wall for 35 years.

[Phoebe Judge]

He says that he and his students have found over 70 missing Goodwill rocks, including ones for West Virginia, Arkansas, Missouri, and the countries of Romania and Canada. Once, one of his sons gave him a present, a spinning globe inscribed with the words moon Rock. Hunter Joe Goodhinds keeps it on his desk. What did your students think when you told them that they'd be looking for moon rocks?

[Joe Goodhines]

Well, you know, initially I get this reaction from the first class, like, really? I'm going like, yeah, well, we could be looking for widgets, but the moon rocks have a little bit more value. But after the first class, everybody was wired in on it. And whenever I would teach a class about the moon rock project, I would say, to my students, I interviewed an astronaut talking about Operation Lunar Eclipse. And I said, how much is a moon rock worth? Because I'm trying to find out if, when I'm negotiating with this guy for 5 million bucks, if I'm just insane to do that. And he says, I don't know. I said, well, thank you very much. I'm closing up. But he said, I'll tell you what it's worth to me. And I'm going like, okay. He says, I. When I was a kid, I always wanted to be a pilot. Always wanted to be a pilot. And he said, then I go to this museum and they have this NASA section. He says, he starts walking towards the moon rock display. And he says, somewhere between starting on that journey to that moon rock and actually arriving at that moon rock, he had decided that he was going to be an astronaut. I would say to my students, this is why it's important that nobody should privately own a moon rock, because we want some kid to be able to walk into a museum and be inspired to do something the way that astronaut was inspired by that moon rock. And having some millionaire walking around with a moon rock in his pocket doesn't do anybody any good.

[Phoebe Judge]

If all of these moon rocks were recovered, what would you do then?

[Joe Goodhines]

Well, I wouldn't be talking about them as much, but no, I'd probably visit a few of them. You know, they've been part of my life since 1998, so I probably would go and take a look at some of them.

[Phoebe Judge]

Joe Goodhine says there are still 150 moon rocks missing. Criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Roberson, Jackie Zagiko, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see [e-mail] and you can sign up for our [e-mail] Newsletter we hope you'll join our new membership program Criminal. Plus. Once you sign up, you can listen to Criminal episodes without any ads. And you'll get bonus episodes with me and Criminal co creator Lauren Spohr too. To learn more, go to thisiscriminal.com/plus. We're on Facebook and Twitter criminalshow and Instagram @ criminalpodcast. We're also on YouTube at YouTube.com criminalpodcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast network. Discover more great [e-mail]. i'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal.