The Quintuplets

Summary

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Criminal – “The Quintuplets”

Released: March 20, 2026 | Host: Phoebe Judge | Guest: Brian Callahan | Podcast Network: Vox Media

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Episode Overview

This episode of Criminal delves into the extraordinary, often tragic story of the Dionne Quintuplets—the first known set of identical quintuplets to survive infancy—who were born in rural Ontario in 1934. What began as a medical miracle became an international sensation, spiraling into exploitation, family tragedy, government intervention, and public fascination. Through interviews with author Sarah Miller and direct descendants like Brian Callahan, the podcast traces the girls' journey from hopeful symbol to victims of systemic abuse, financial mismanagement, and enduring trauma.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Birth of the Quintuplets and Immediate Sensation (00:00–07:38)

• The Miracle Birth:
  • Elzire and Oliva Dion, poor farmers in Ontario, already had five children when Elzire gave birth to quintuplets (Yvonne, Annette, Cecile, Emilie, and Marie) on May 28, 1934.
  • The babies together weighed less than 14 pounds and were treated with makeshift methods for survival, such as being placed in baskets near open ovens as an improvised incubator.
• Media Frenzy:
  • The family's miraculous story spread globally after a photo of the mother and five newborns was telegraphed worldwide.
  • “It was a picture of my grandmother laying in bed with the five babies right beside her. And at the time that picture was put on by telegram and sent all over the world.” – Family Member/Historian (03:53)
• The Public’s Reaction:
  • The Dions quickly felt the pressure and scrutiny. Elzire worried: “What will people think? They'll think we're pigs.” – Mrs. Dion, via Brian Callahan (07:51)
  • Dr. Defoe, their delivering physician: “They’re not going to be alive come daylight. I'm going home.” (02:46)

2. Exploitation Offers, Legal Battles & Government Takeover (09:02–13:10)

• World’s Fair and Public Display Offers:
  • Promoters offered the Dions cash for the right to display the girls in Chicago.
  • Oliva Dion signed a contract, but soon regretted it due to public backlash and perceptions of exploitation.
• First Legal Intervention:
  • The government intervened, persuading the Dions to sign custody to the Red Cross to prevent their move to the U.S., under the guise of protection.
  • “With great reluctance, but with no other way around it, Olivia and Elzir sign a new contract.” – Brian Callahan (12:32)

3. Isolation and Quintland: Raising Children in a Fishbowl (16:30–27:09)

• A Life on Display:
  • The Red Cross (and soon, the Ontario government) erected a special hospital and later the infamous “Observatory”—a tourist attraction where up to 6,000 people daily would file past one-way windows to view the children at play.
  • “They built an observatory, a horseshoe shaped building. And in the center ... a playground.” – Brian Callahan (24:32)
• Family Alienation:
  • The Dions lived across the street but were treated as outsiders, needing to ring a bell and wait for approval to visit.
  • “She was so distressed by her separation from her newborn daughters that Grandpa Dian cuts a hole in the wall ... so that she can look through from her bed and see into the baby's room.” – Brian Callahan (16:30)
• The Commercial Machine:
  • “In 1937, the Dionne quintuplets were a more popular tourist attraction than Niagara Falls.” – Brian Callahan (27:29)
  • The province benefited directly via taxes and local commerce; their faces appeared on merchandise, in films, and in ads.

4. The Economic and Psychological Toll (28:32–34:53)

• Trust Fund and Profiteering:
  • Money generated from the girls' fame was supposed to go into a trust but was routinely siphoned for expenses unrelated to the quintuplets' welfare.
  • “The government can't exploit these children and money equals exploitation ... so there is no charge (for viewing them).” – Brian Callahan (23:26)
• Impact on Development:
  • The girls were strictly regimented—no affection, harsh routines, constant study, and public scrutiny.
  • “They're never supposed to speak sharply ... But on the other side ... they're not supposed to hug and kiss them either.” – Brian Callahan (31:03)
• Diminishing Interest:
  • As the girls grew older, their public appeal—and the attendant income—waned.
  • Public and media sympathies shifted toward the Dion parents, and away from Dr. Dafoe and the authorities.

5. After Quintland: Family, Lawsuits, and Scandal (37:42–45:16)

• Reintegration and Continued Alienation:
  • At age nine, the quintuplets returned home, but remained emotionally and practically separated from their siblings, lacking basic life skills and facing persistent family tension.
  • “There was no bonding. Even for the nine years that they actually did live together. They didn't know each other.” – Family Member (40:00)
• Adulthood, Lawsuits, and Loss:
  • As young adults, the sisters discovered the depletion of their trust fund, and, with Cecile's son Bertrand’s research, uncovered gross financial mismanagement and governmental exploitation.
  • Eventually, after public pressure and press conferences, the Ontario government awarded the surviving quintuplets a $4 million settlement and opened an inquiry (48:36–49:10).

6. Breaking the Silence: Abuse Allegations and Legacy (49:37–53:22)

• Abuse Reveal and Family Division:
  • In 1995, three surviving sisters accused their father Oliva of sexual abuse—the revelation split the Dion family, with their siblings publicly denying the claims.
  • “We assert that we had good parents and that to our knowledge, our father was certainly not a sexual abuser.” – Brian Callahan quoting his mother (50:11)
• Cultural Legacy:
  • The “curse” of the number five haunted the family, as recounted in poignant anecdotes (51:16–51:37).
  • The Dionne museum in North Bay continues to attract visitors seeking meaning in the story.
  • “In total, over 3 million people came to see the Dionne quintuplets at Quintland. ... it gave people a ray of hope ... to brighten their day.” – Family Member (53:00)
• Closing Reflections:
  • “I think the museum staying in North Bay will help them from making foolish choices like what they did to us. It should never be repeated again.” – Annette Dionne (53:22)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[The babies] were so tiny ... all five of them together, weigh under 14 pounds.” – Brian Callahan (02:19)
• “She feels like people are going to think she's had a litter of babies and that's somehow vulgar.” – Brian Callahan, on Elzire’s shame (07:51)
• “They built an observatory, a horseshoe shaped building ... if you’re a member of the public who wants to see the Dionne quintuplets at play, you enter ... and there are these windows that allegedly are one way.” – Brian Callahan (24:32)
• “In 1937, the Dionne Quintuplets were a more popular tourist attraction than Niagara Falls.” – Brian Callahan (27:29)
• “They have no concept how to take care of themselves, let alone do farm work.” – Family Member/Historian (40:00)
• “There's not a nice way to say it, they weren't as cute as they used to be.” – Brian Callahan on the changing public perception (33:03)
• “Annette Dionne told the New York Times: 'It should never be repeated again.'” (53:22)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–04:24: The birth, immediate chaos, and global media storm
• 09:02–13:10: Legal intervention to protect (and take) custody
• 16:30–24:17: The hospital, alienation of the parents, and the building of Quintland
• 24:32–28:32: Construction of the Observatory and the height of tourist attraction
• 31:03–33:03: The psychological cost, daily routine, and restriction of affection
• 40:00–41:09: The siblings' divide and failed reintegration
• 46:07–49:10: Discovery of financial mismanagement, lawsuits, and settlements
• 49:37–50:31: Sexual abuse allegations, family rift, and painful legacy
• 52:03–53:22: Reflections on the museum and legacy warnings

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Tone and Style

The episode maintains a tone of compassion and historical curiosity, with undercurrents of outrage and sorrow regarding the children’s exploitation and the inability of any authority—government, medical, or familial—to protect them from harm. The host, Phoebe Judge, guides the narrative with empathy and patience, often allowing guests' voices, especially Brian Callahan, to carry the emotional weight of the story.

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Final Thoughts

In retracing the lives of the Dionne Quintuplets, Criminal exposes not merely a tale of survival and fame, but a lasting cautionary saga about the power of media, the consequences of institutional control, and the human toll of turning people into symbols. The episode serves as both a record of a unique historical event and a meditation on the enduring scars of exploitation, offering a plea—echoed by Annette Dionne—not to let history repeat itself.

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Transcript

[Phoebe Judge]

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[Brian Callahan]

Auntie Legro comes and sees that things just don't seem right. Alzire doesn't. She's just not well and she's frightened.

[Phoebe Judge]

Author Sarah Miller and so they call

[Brian Callahan]

the local midwife and the two midwives deliver one, then two, and then, in shock, three baby girls. In the meantime, they have also had Oliva go for the doctor. Go get Dr. De Foe. So the doctor arrives just as the third baby is delivered and he scrubs up and he assists in the delivery of two more infants.

[Phoebe Judge]

How big are these babies?

[Brian Callahan]

They're so tiny they are. All five of them together, weigh under 14 pounds.

[Phoebe Judge]

The doctor, Alan Roy Dafoe, had helped deliver a set of quadruplets 26 years earlier, but none of them had lived more than a week. There were no records of any quintuplets anywhere in the world that had survived longer than 50 days.

[Family Member or Historian]

He then looked at the babies and made a statement to the midwives. They're not going to be alive come daylight. I'm going home.

[Phoebe Judge]

Brian Callahan, Elzear and Oliva's grandson as Dr. Defoe was leaving, Oliva's brother Leon arrived, the doctor told Leon about the five babies.

[Family Member or Historian]

He actually called the newspaper in North Bay, called the North Bay Nugget and inquired about placing a birth notice in the newspaper. And he asked if a notice for five babies would cost more than just a regular notice for one baby.

[Brian Callahan]

The editor thinks it's a joke. He's like Leon, you're kidding me. Come on. And he says no. You know, his sister in law has just given birth to five little girls. And the editor says it's free. We're gonna print this one for nothing.

[Phoebe Judge]

That morning, about six hours after the birth, a reporter and photographer from the North Bay Nugget arrived at the Dion's house. Alzier's aunt let them inside to take a picture.

[Family Member or Historian]

It was a picture of my grandmother laying in bed with the five babies right beside her. And at the time that picture was put on by telegram and sent all

[Phoebe Judge]

over the world, the babies were identical. At first they were just labeled A, B, C, D and E. But within a few days they had names. Yvonne, Annette, Cecile, Emily and Marie. The smallest baby was 2lbs 4oz.

[Brian Callahan]

Everyone was concerned for all of them. But Marie's existence was by far the most precarious because she was just so little. So initially like they're putting, opening the oven door and putting a basket on the door and putting the babies in this basket in front of the open oven because they need to be kept warm, you know, hot water bottles pinned to the sides of the basket because they need an incubator but there is no such thing. Within hundreds of miles.

[Phoebe Judge]

Dr. Defoe drove to the Red Cross to get more help. That evening they sent a 21 year old nurse named Yvonne Leroux. She stayed up through the night with the quintuplets. The next day at 5:30am Dr. Defoe got a phone call from a newspaper editor in Chicago asking if the babies were still alive. Then a journalist from New York called, then a doctor, a health commissioner in Chicago, who said he was an expert on premature babies. He asked Dr. Defoe what he needed.

[Brian Callahan]

Elzire Dian had actually had trouble nursing her singly born babies. Her milk supply was not that high. And so they have to improvise. What are they going to feed these babies if they keep living? And at first it's just water and then he comes up with this improvised formula of cow's milk and corn syrup. But there are these really frightening spells when they start to turn blue and they're not getting enough oxygen is what the real issue. But he concocts Another little formula with diluted rum, which he's instructing the midwives and nurses to give them, to bring them back.

[Phoebe Judge]

The doctor in Chicago said he would send frozen breast milk. And he said that the babies needed to be kept at 85 degrees with an incubator. But the Dions didn't have any electricity.

[Brian Callahan]

Chicago newspaper sends one of its reporters with an incubator. They find an incubator that does not need electricity. Very old fashioned model. They had to go into the basement or the attic of this medical supply warehouse in Chicago. And this fellow called Charlie Blake gets on a train with this incubator and speeds north with it.

[Phoebe Judge]

A reporter and photographer from the Toronto Star brought a car full of supplies and gifts. When they came to take pictures of

[Brian Callahan]

the babies, to everyone's astonishment, they just keep living. I mean, they say that in the newspapers over and over again. They're still breathing, they're still living. It's such a basic thing to say, but it is so unheard of. It has never happened in 400 years of recorded medical history. Dr. Defoe famously said, you know, somebody asked him, what do they look like? He said, like rats. One of the reporters said that you would almost swear they're transparent when he saw one of them lifted up, like for a bath or a diaper change. There's a picture of Nurse Leroux holding one of the girls, and that baby's entire torso is contained in her palm.

[Phoebe Judge]

The day after the babies were born, the Toronto Star printed three pictures of the Dion family. The article read, have good chance of surviving states. Quintuplet's doctor.

[Brian Callahan]

Mr. And Mrs. Dionne don't fare as well with the press, Mr. Dionne in particular. But even Mrs. Dionne, the very morning of the birth when she first talks to her husband about what's just happened to them, she says, what will people think? They'll think we're pigs. And that's kind of in reference to. There's not a great way to put it. She feels like people are going to think she's had a litter of babies and that that's somehow vulgar. And Mr. Dion, when he's first confronted with the press, they ask him, well, do you feel proud of yourself? And something about the tone or the manner of that question got right under his skin immediately. And what he swore to his dying day that he said was, you talk like I should be put in jail. But what they reported him as saying was, I'm the type of fellow that should be put in jail. As if he was indeed Ashamed of having fathered so many children at once. And that encounter would taint his view of the press for the rest of his life.

[Phoebe Judge]

The next day, May 30, the Toronto Star reported that Oliva had agreed to take the quintuplets to the World's Fair in Chicago. A promoter had reached out to him about a deal to put the quintuplets on display there.

[Brian Callahan]

When the World's Fair calls and says, hey, we want your babies, they are offering solutions to so many problems that just arose so suddenly, such as who's footing the bill. Nobody has really talked about who's paying the nurses, who's paying the doctor, who's paying for these shipments of breast milk that come every day. Their family literally doubled overnight. They had five children on May 27th. They had 10 children on May 28th. And the folks at the World's Fair say, if you bring your babies here, we will give them the best care that is medically available in the city of Chicago. We will pay your expenses, travel expenses. We will pay your living expenses for yourself, your wife, all of your children.

[Phoebe Judge]

They said they would also pay for the baby's medical care for up to six weeks before coming to the fair, Oliva went to ask their local priest for advice. They drove south so they could meet the promoter and to review the contract.

[Brian Callahan]

He wanted a provision added saying if the children weren't well enough to travel, that, you know, the contract was off.

[Phoebe Judge]

The promoter said, okay, and Oliva signed the contract. When he arrived home, there were even more cameras and journalists waiting outside, some addressed as nuns coming to pray for the babies. And in an attempt to get inside, Oliva refused to talk to them or be filmed. The World's Fair promoter announced that they'd signed a contract, and newspapers reported exactly how much money Oliva would make from exhibiting the quintuplets. $250 a week and over 20% of ticket sales.

[Brian Callahan]

Within about 24 hours. Olivia Oliva Dion begins to regret signing that contract. I think in part because of the way people reacted. They think he's putting his daughters up for sale, more or less.

[Phoebe Judge]

The Cleveland Press reported that Dr. Defoe did not agree with the decision Oliva had made. Quote, as long as I am boss, there'll be no trip anywhere for these babies. The father can go if he wants to, but not the children.

[Brian Callahan]

It appears publicly that Dr. Defoe and Oliva Dion are going head to head, as if Mr. Dion wants to take the children to Chicago, and Dr. Defoe is sort of like putting himself in front of the incubator and saying, no, no, no, I won't let you do this. When in fact it was Oliver Dion's insistence on putting that clause into the contract that gave Dr. Defoe the power to say, we're not moving these babies yet.

[Phoebe Judge]

Oliva started trying to get out of the Chicago contract. He refused to cash checks from the promoter. He said the contract didn't mean anything because Alzier hadn't signed it too, but the promoter said it was legally binding.

[Brian Callahan]

The government comes up with this plan to protect the babies from being sent to Chicago, which is if the Diyans will sign custody of those five children to the Red Cross, they will be protected because Olive Adeon is still bound by that contract he signed. But the Red Cross is not. So if they transfer custody, the children are protected. And so, with great reluctance, but with no other way around it, Olivia and Elzir sign a different a brand new contract.

[Phoebe Judge]

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[Brian Callahan]

The parents are left just sort of feeling like almost like aliens in their own home. And Elzear, after that birth, is not well for several days, if not weeks. So she's so distressed by her separation from her newborn daughters that Grandpa Dian cuts a hole in the wall. He makes a little window so that she can look through from her bed and see into the baby's room.

[Phoebe Judge]

Construction on the new hospital began in August.

[Brian Callahan]

People are literally sending nickels to northern Ontario to help build the hospital for these babies. One little girl from Rhode island sent a nickel and said, I wish I could send more, but Daddy only works three days a week to keep us five going, so that's all they could spare. But they wanted to send all they could spare.

[Phoebe Judge]

In late September, when the quintuplets were just under four months old, Dr. Defoe and the nurses moved the babies to the finished hospital.

[Brian Callahan]

It was billed as this sort of infant utopia because everything was going to be modern and new and just for them and the best of everything. There were chimes that were rung at these certain hours, for meals, for playtime, even for, like, there was six designated potty times during the day. There was this sort of aura around the science of child rearing, and it was presented to the public as though these children were going to have the best possible upbringing because we're going to have the latest in everything scientifically, psychologically, it's all going to be here for them, and we are going to make these children the most perfect children you ever saw.

[Phoebe Judge]

Elzear and Oliva were allowed to visit at any time as long as no one in their house was sick.

[Brian Callahan]

The official policy is, anytime you want, they're your children. Come on in. But the logistics and everything just make it feel very strange to the Dion's who walks across the street to see their children. There's a fence with barbed wire, and they had to, like, ring a bell and wait for the guards to let them in. Once they're past those gates, they are always under the nurse's gaze. And Elzear in particular felt very much like she was treated like a criminal, like she couldn't be trusted with her own children.

[Phoebe Judge]

Crowds of people had started driving to the hospital to see the quintuplets, but they would also gather around the Dion's house once a man broke their kitchen window and reached inside.

[Brian Callahan]

In February of 1935, things have calmed down a bit. There's been some health scares with the babies that have passed, and things are seeming fairly stable. And once again, it dawns on Olavidian, okay, in two years, these five children are going to come home. Well, then what? We still have the same house. He still has the same job. That's more than he can financially stretch to. And so for that reason, the Dion's explain, they go on a vaudeville tour in the United States. In February of 1935, a theater agent

[Phoebe Judge]

from Chicago had proposed the idea to them for $1,700 a week.

[Brian Callahan]

It was basically just displaying themselves. All they did, in essence, was say, you know, we thank you for your attention. We thank you for all of your care and your prayers and your donations. And Mr. Dian said two or three sentences in English, and Mrs. Dion said, thank you very much and May God bless you in French, because that was her native language. And that was it.

[Phoebe Judge]

Audiences loved it. But newspapers published jokes making fun of the Dions. They called Oliva a little shrimp and the tour a flop. The premier of Ontario called it nauseating to Canadians. Revolting and cheap.

[Brian Callahan]

We're trying to save these children from exploitation. We gave them a beautiful hospital. The Red Cross is taking care of them. And now look at what their parents are doing. They're out exploiting and exposing themselves for money.

[Phoebe Judge]

In March, the Ontario legislature proposed a new bill about the Dionne quintuplets.

[Brian Callahan]

The legislature proposes taking forcibly seizing control and custody of Yvonne, Annette, Cecile, Emilie and Marie, making them wards of the Crown until they are 18 years old to save them from the exploitation that now people seem to believe they will suffer at the hands of their own parents.

[Phoebe Judge]

Are they allowed to do that?

[Brian Callahan]

They did caused a great deal of debate in the legislature. But ultimately the Dion's five daughters became wards of the Crown.

[Phoebe Judge]

It was called the Dionne Quintuplet Guardianship act, and it made the Minister of Public Welfare the quintuplet's special guardian, along with a board appointed by the government. The minister said, these children are our own royal family. We want to make it possible for them to lead normal lives. When the bill passed, Elzir and Oliva packed bags and tried to move into the hospital in protest. But a police officer showed up and after two hours they went home.

[Brian Callahan]

They said over and over again were raising these five other children. Nobody has complained about them. And they characterized it as kidnapping.

[Phoebe Judge]

The quintuplets were nine months old. That spring, Dr. Dapho had started letting some visitors inside the hospital between 2 and 3 in the afternoon to look through a window into the nursery.

[Brian Callahan]

It turns out that, that, that gazing through the windows kind of seems to make the babies nervous. And so they change tactics and start displaying the children on the front porch of the nursery. At set times during the day, they would put out a placard that said Yvonne. And one of the nurses would come out and hold up Yvonne and the people lined up at the fence would just cheer and fuss. And because they were identical, they could dupe the public. So if Cecile was having a rough time, they could just show Emilie twice, just change the sign, change the nurse, bring out the same baby, and at that distance, no one was any the wiser.

[Phoebe Judge]

Are they being charged?

[Brian Callahan]

No, no, it's always free, of course, because the government, the government can't exploit these children and money equals exploitation, so there is no charge.

[Phoebe Judge]

Journalists and psychologists debated whether the public should be allowed to view the quintuplets. A well known psychologist wrote in Cosmopolitan life in a glass house is not conducive to normal human development. Babies are not fishes. But then he recommended they be separated and raised by different families to make them forget they are quintuplets. A judge on the quintuplets guardianship board said, these children are the treasures of the world. Why should they not be seen?

[Brian Callahan]

They said, well, people are going to come no matter what, and the more we try to thwart them, the more obnoxious they're going to become. So we need to do it on our terms. And that's the tactic that they took.

[Phoebe Judge]

And what did they do?

[Brian Callahan]

They built an observatory, a horseshoe shaped building. And in the center of the horseshoe is a playground. So you enter, if you're a member of the public who wants to see the Dionne quintuplets at play, you enter through sort of the bottom of the U in that horseshoe, and you file in one of two directions. And there are these windows that allegedly are one way. They've put these screens that are painted white over the windows. So the theory is you can look out into the playground at the children, but they can't see you. And the observatory is lined with cork and felt to muffle sounds. People are admonished not to speak and stuff, but they do because they just can't help themselves. They are not to take pictures. They are just to file in an orderly fashion through this, you know, whatever leg of the horseshoe you choose. And you can go through that observatory as many times as you please during the observation period, but traffic must be kept in motion at all times. You're not to linger. So the children, the policy states, health and weather permitting, are herded into their little private playground and are stared at for twice a day every day.

[Phoebe Judge]

The Observatory opened on July 1, 1936, just after the baby's second birthday. How do they seem to react to this attention?

[Brian Callahan]

There are mixed accounts. There are some nurses who claim that the children were completely oblivious. And there are others who are like, that's nonsense, because they observed girls after the public had left. If the children were given access to those windows, they would take their building blocks and sort of climb up to the windows and wave at nobody. They knew people were in there looking at them, and they would perform. Emma Lee took particular delight in climbing the jungle gym and looking precarious and making people gasp and wonder if she was going to fall. And there were times when it did. Some nurses said it. It seemed to disturb them. They seemed to not want to be there.

[Phoebe Judge]

Between three and six thousand people came every day to see the quintuplets. Outside the gates of the hospital, all kinds of tents and stands had started popping up to sell things to tourists. Newspapers called it. Quintland, Elzear's aunt, was the first one to open a tent.

[Brian Callahan]

She sold food. She sold souvenirs. She. She told her story, offered autographs. The two midwives wrote a little pamphlet describing the birth and the family and everything that they would sign.

[Phoebe Judge]

Oliva opened a booth, too. He sold photographs, postcards, and autographs for a quarter.

[Brian Callahan]

In 1937, the Dionne Quintuplets were a more popular tourist attraction than Niagara Falls. Businesses are booming because these folks again, that have come so far to see the famous Dionne quintuplets, they need other stuff to do. If they've come that far, well, you might as well offer them hotels and restaurants and fishing excursions. And the girl's uncle Leon ran a gas station and he installed five gas pumps and put Yvonne, Annette, Cecile, Emilie and Marie's name each had was assigned to a gas pump. And also critically, it will come out later. The province is pocketing all kinds of money because they are charging a higher gas tax than any other province in Canada, because they can, because people are going to pay it, because they want to see the Dion quintuplets. And when you've got to drive a couple hundred miles north of Toronto, that adds up.

[Phoebe Judge]

Newspapers paid thousands of dollars for exclusive rights to photograph the quintuplets. And Hollywood producers made a deal to shoot three movies in their nursery. The Madame Alexander doll company made sets of five identical dolls named after the quintuplets. Companies used their photos and advertisements. Dr. Dafoe gave endorsements.

[Brian Callahan]

Products like Karo syrup, palm olive soap, Colgate toothpaste, Baby ruth candy. Anything Dr. Dafoe said was the best for the Dionne quintuplets was perceived as the best for anybody, and he was paid for that. His influence was so great that at that time there was some hesitation toward things like pasteurization of milk and vaccinations. And when Dr. Defoe comes out and says pasteurized milk is best for your child, vaccinations are best for your child, that has a great effect on public health. So milk borne illnesses decrease markedly, as do a lot of childhood diseases that people you know, who had been wary about vaccinating their children. When they hear that the dians are vaccinated and they see the pictures of the dians being inoculated in the papers, they say, okay, if the Dionne quintuplets are receiving this, then I'm going to trust that and that it's best for my child as well.

[Phoebe Judge]

In 1937, Dr. Defoe said there isn't any point in bringing them up as normal children. They must learn to be looked at, talked about and studied without losing their sense of proportion or their ability to enjoy life. And because they will always have to buy their privacy and pay dearly for it, we are trying to build up sufficient funds to make it possible for them to have peace and freedom. As the years go by, the money from the photographs and Advertisements went into a trust fund for the quintuplets, managed by the Guardianship Board. Oliva was a member of the board, but he stopped attending meetings when he kept being outvoted. Elzear was worried the quintuplets weren't getting enough to eat. She fought with the nurses. When a nurse left her job at the hospital and the quintuplets would cry, they remembered. Elzear would get angry.

[Brian Callahan]

The nurses are put in this position where they are the children's parents in practice. They're never supposed to speak sharply. They're never supposed to physically discipline the children. But on the other side of that is they're not supposed to hug and kiss them either. So, for instance, when they're put to bed at night, it's. You're put in your crib and it's lights out. There's no toys, there's no singing, there's no rocking chair. There's none of that kind of routine.

[Phoebe Judge]

Twice a day, the quintuplets had their hair curled. Researchers visited to analyze their physical similarities, their handprints and eyelids, and their personalities. It was reported Dr. Dafoe had them on a special diet to, quote, keep them from growing too fast. On holidays like Halloween and Valentine's Day, they did special photo shoots. Their birthday parties were filmed later. Cecile said the gifts were all empty boxes. The cake was a big hole. It was always like that. There was no cake at all when we cut it. The quintuplets were allowed to leave the hospital for the first time when they were about five years old, to meet Queen Elizabeth in Toronto. By 1940, Oliva had filed two lawsuits against Dr. Defoe. He demanded that Dr. Defoe reveal how much he was making from advertising contracts and put his profits in the trust fund. Dr. Defoe resigned from the Guardianship board and Oliva withdrew the lawsuits. By then, World War II had begun and fewer Americans were making trips to Quintland. And the way journalists wrote about the quintuplets was changing.

[Brian Callahan]

As the girls grew up, they became. There's not a nice way to say it, they weren't as cute as they used to be. They got to be perfectly ordinary looking little girls. And that didn't have the same draw as these adorable little ringleted toddlers.

[Phoebe Judge]

A nurse who had taken care of them as babies came to visit them at Quintland in 1942, when the quintuplets were 7 and told a reporter, I was disappointed in them. I thought they were not as pretty. Another former nurse spoke up, saying she felt Sorry for the quintuplets.

[Brian Callahan]

The tide of public sympathy starts to turn toward Mr. And Mrs. Dionne and away from the doctor.

[Phoebe Judge]

Dr. Defoe had been diagnosed with colon cancer and went away for surgery.

[Brian Callahan]

Then it's like six months or so. It's quite some time before they see him again. And in that intervening period, they've realized that the expectation is to love their parents. They can feel that expectation from their parents now. And so when Defoe returns from his recovery, the feeling between them is very, very different.

[Phoebe Judge]

One nurse said they just wouldn't go near him. We literally had to push them. Later, the quintuplet said, we were old enough to know that mom and dad did not want us to do that. We were anxious to please. Then Dr. Defoe died of pneumonia. He was 60. No one told the quintuplets for six months. And in 1943, at nine years old, the girls were sent home to live with the rest of their family.

[Brian Callahan]

They have two new little brothers have been born. So now there's seven siblings that they haven't seen that much of. And they're all expected to just magically have this fairytale reunion and everything is supposed to be great. And Cecile and Yvonne, like, one says it and the other snaps her fingers and they say it was like that. All of a sudden, your life as you know it in the nursery is over.

[Phoebe Judge]

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[Family Member or Historian]

I've heard the story all my life growing up I'd be at my grandparents house every weekend.

[Phoebe Judge]

Brian Callahan his mother Therese was one of the Dionne quintuplet's older sisters. She was 14 when the quintuplets were sent home to live with the rest of their family on their farm. They'd moved into a new house that Oliva had built with money from the quintuplets trust fund. They called it the Big House.

[Family Member or Historian]

As a young boy I'd play in that house when it stood empty.

[Phoebe Judge]

When the quintuplets moved back in, Oliva said he wanted everyone to act like

[Family Member or Historian]

one big family one way or the other. The siblings weren't interested in being part of the family with the quints, and the quints in turn weren't interested in being part of the family with the siblings. If you can understand that.

[Phoebe Judge]

For the first time, the quintuplets were separated into different bedrooms.

[Brian Callahan]

At dinner time, at the table, they weren't seated together. They were all sandwiched between their siblings.

[Phoebe Judge]

Oliva didn't think the quintuplets should go to a regular school, so they eventually started a private school for them in the old hospital nursery.

[Family Member or Historian]

Instead of having the siblings go to school with their sisters, they then interviewed and selected 10 young ladies from the surrounding area to come in and go to school with the quints as their classmates.

[Phoebe Judge]

Later, one of their classmates said, they wouldn't confide in us for a long, long time. You had to really, really work on gaining their confidence. When they did, the quintuplets would ask the other girls questions about everything. Going to the movies, getting soda, having boyfriends. At first the quintuplets slept at the school during the week, but when they got closer with their classmates and teachers. Oliva told them, morally, those people are taking you farther and farther from your parents. They are there to divide our family once again. After that, Oliva wanted them to come back to the big house for meals and to sleep.

[Family Member or Historian]

There was no bonding. Even for the nine years that they actually did live together. They didn't know each other. You had the five princesses. They were raised by the nursing staff. Everything was done for them. They had no concept how to take care of themselves, let alone do farm work. Meanwhile, the other siblings, they were still out working the farm.

[Brian Callahan]

Mr. Dionne wanted them to be one of the family, not one of five. But they craved that fiveness, you know, that togetherness that they had had for almost a decade together in the nursery. That feeling to them was home to them more than any physical place. And yet they wanted to be individuals also. They were very weary of being treated as a group with no differentiation between the five of them. So they kind of wanted to go their separate ways, and yet they really didn't know how or what it would be like to live like that.

[Phoebe Judge]

When they were 18, Oliva enrolled them at a small Catholic women's college in Quebec.

[Brian Callahan]

Even though it was, you know, the small world of the campus, they felt that freedom and really reveled in it, in addition to being able to be together as much as they wanted and craved, with no. No punishment for that.

[Phoebe Judge]

So it was the first time in their life when they were free.

[Brian Callahan]

Yeah. Yeah, it really is. And I believe Annette and at least one other of her sisters put it very much like that and said it was like being a bird.

[Phoebe Judge]

After about a year, Marie left school to join a convent. And then so did Emily.

[Brian Callahan]

Emily has epilepsy, which is a huge secret. Almost nobody outside of the family knows it. And while she is in this convent, contemplating whether, you know, to stay, if this is really for her or not, she has a seizure and she dies.

[Phoebe Judge]

Her sisters were all at home visiting when they got the News. They were 20 years old.

[Brian Callahan]

Cecile said there was a part of her that she almost believed that they were immortal because it had been such a miracle that they had lived. She didn't fully understand. It seems that they could also die. But at the same time, they say that was the real start of them finding their individuality, because once there's only four instead of five, then the public's attention really, really diverts. It's like they're not magic anymore.

[Phoebe Judge]

There's a picture of the five of them together. Emily is in a casket Yvonne later said she remembered thinking Emily is still playing the part of a quintuplet for the camera, even though she's dead. Oliva opened their house to anyone, quote, genuine in their grief. And 5,000 people came to see Emily. Shortly after, Yvonne, Annette, Cecile and Marie found out about their trust fund.

[Brian Callahan]

Because they had no concept of its accumulation. They did not know how much had been just sort of dribbled or siphoned away.

[Phoebe Judge]

The account contained about $800,000 for the sisters. They would get access when they turned 21. Emily's share would be split among all the members of the Dion family. But there were rules about how and when they could use the money and they had to keep paying to maintain their parents house. Marie left her convent and decided to use the money to open a flower shop called Salon Emily. She liked to give flowers away to friends and churches. The shop closed after six months. Annette and Cecile both married. Cecile used trust fund money for her wedding and left her bouquet at Emily's grave. Marie married two, all three had children. Yvonne went to nursing school and eventually became a librarian. They all stayed in Quebec. Marie died at 35, reportedly from a blood clot in her brain. Cecile eventually divorced. So did Annette.

[Brian Callahan]

Her husband seems to have been a very good, kind, understanding man. But as he said, you know, he would, he would make plans with his wife in the morning, go to work and then come home and find that the plans had been changed because like Yvonne showed up and the two sisters just changed everything. And he said, I, you know, I only married one person. It's, you have to choose. It's either me or it's them.

[Phoebe Judge]

As Yvonne, Annette and Cecile got older, they stayed close, often calling each other every day. For a while they moved in together and the money that was left in the trust fund dwindled.

[Brian Callahan]

Cecile's son, Bertrand, he was very aware of his mother's financial struggles. Even as like a kid in school, he knew and he remembered very specifically somebody coming into class and they had a pencil with his mother's face and his four aunts faces on it. And he thought, why is there this pencil with their faces on it? And they don't get any money for this. So as an adult he goes to the archive of Ontario and he starts digging into the quintuplet guardianship files and looking for the financial records in Toronto.

[Phoebe Judge]

Bertrand found that between the ages of 4 and 10, half of the quintuplet's trust fund had been spent. And the records of the first three Years of guardianship board meetings had been burned by the welfare minister.

[Brian Callahan]

He comes home with like, literally suitcases full of documents, discovering things. Like when the welfare minister, who was part of the Dionne Quintuplet Guardians Board, when he would come to North Bay to look over the books, he wasn't charging his lodging and his fish and chips to his government department. He was charging it to the Dionne Quintuplet account. The Dion's were being billed for their own birthday presents. They were being billed for the toilet paper. In the public washroom at Quintland. The quintuplet fund had paid for Mr. Dion's new cars. The girls had unknowingly paid tuition for their siblings educations. They paid for Dr. Dafoe's stamps and telephone bills and telegrams, the nurses tennis court. Anytime somebody could dip into there and justify it as necessary for maintaining that whole Dion show, they did.

[Phoebe Judge]

And then Bertrand found out about the gas tax. In the Quintland years, Ontario had increased its gas tax to 6 or 8 cents a gallon versus the 2 or 3 cents in other provinces.

[Brian Callahan]

That was really a big fat nail in the coffin for him, saying that's proof that the government knew what these children were quote, unquote, worth to the province and that they were being used to make money.

[Phoebe Judge]

Bertrand went to court to get royalties back for use of the sisters names and faces, which no one had paid since 1957. They asked for $10 million in restitution from the government of Ontario. More than a year later, the Ontario government offered to pay Yvonne, Annette and Cecile each $2,000 a month for the rest of their lives.

[Brian Callahan]

And they find it just deeply offensive, like, we didn't ask for an allowance, you know, this was. This was money that was set aside for us. Where is it?

[Phoebe Judge]

The sisters decided to hold a press conference in Toronto.

[Brian Callahan]

They take the sort of, for them, unprecedented step. After all those years of being, in my opinion, abused by the media, they finally took the reins. And then the premier offers $2 million, and the Dians say, no, not enough. He offers $3 million, and they say, no, not enough. And finally he says $4 million and an inquiry into the accounting. And they accepted that.

[Phoebe Judge]

Brian Callahan says that beyond that press conference, the sisters had hardly ever come back to Ontario. He remembers seeing them when oliva died in 1979. What were your aunts like at the funeral?

[Family Member or Historian]

Very, very soft spoken. You wouldn't know that they were there. They just kind of blended in.

[Phoebe Judge]

In 1995, Annette, Yvonne and Cecile said publicly that Oliva had sexually abused them as children. They said that it had taken a long time to talk about, quote, but that's normal for something so deep. They remembered telling a priest when they

[Brian Callahan]

were younger and he felt bound by his religious duty, as if that had been a sort of confession. He didn't think he was able to tell that outside of the confession booth.

[Phoebe Judge]

When the news came out, Brian's mother Teres, told a reporter, we assert that we had good parents and that to our knowledge, our father was certainly not a sexual abuser.

[Brian Callahan]

They just didn't understand how a secret so monumental could have been kept when they were all in the same house.

[Family Member or Historian]

All the other siblings actually signed a joint letter denying anything to that fact, refuting the claims of the quints. I believe that it didn't happen, but who's to say?

[Phoebe Judge]

Yeah, I mean, that must be a difficult thing to have circulating, you know, very divisive, I can only imagine for a family.

[Family Member or Historian]

Oh, yes, it was. Yeah. And you have to understand that to this family, due to what they were put through, the number five to them was like a number 13 to most families considered unlucky.

[Phoebe Judge]

Brian remembers when his younger brother joined a junior ice hockey team.

[Family Member or Historian]

His name wasn't Deon, so nobody knew his relationship. What number do you think they gave him to wear playing for the North Bay trappers?

[Phoebe Judge]

5.

[Family Member or Historian]

My mother refused to go and watch him play hockey because he was wearing the number five. Extreme, certainly, but that's the way it was with the family.

[Phoebe Judge]

Today there's a Dion Quince museum in North Bay, Ontario, inside the log house where the quintuplets were born. Brian lives nearby and leads tours there.

[Family Member or Historian]

I actually had a 94 year old woman come up this summer. Her son drove her up from Colorado and she was actually. She actually came up when she was three years old to see the quintuplets with her grandparents. Drove all the way up expecting to play with them and of course she wasn't allowed to play with them. So she made a pilgrimage. So she called it to come up and fulfill her. The one item on her bucket list for that. And she's not the only one.

[Phoebe Judge]

Brian says another woman told him she visited because it was her own mother's dying wish. Sometimes the museum gets donations of vintage dolls and other quintuplets memorabilia people collected.

[Family Member or Historian]

In total, over 3 million people came to see the Dionne quintuplets at Quintland. You have to understand that it was in the depression era and it gave people a ray of hope, you know, something to something to brighten their day,

[Phoebe Judge]

Annette Dionne told the New York Times. I think the museum staying in North Bay will help them from making foolish choices like what they did to us. It should never be repeated again. In 2016, Cecile told the Montreal Gazette that her son Bertrand, who'd been managing her money for her, had disappeared. Her money was gone and she was made Award of the State. Last year, she and Annette, the last surviving quintuplets, died. They were 91. To see the famous photo of Elzir Dion and the quintuplets on the day they were born, go to our Instagram at criminalpodcast or find us on Facebook hisiscriminal. We're also on [e-mail] criminal podcast criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Roberson, Jackie Sajiko, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Sarah Miller's book is the Miracle and Tragedy of the Dionne Quintuplets. You can find a link on our website. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see [e-mail] and you can sign up for our [e-mail] Newsletter we hope you'll consider supporting our work by joining our membership program Criminal. Plus, you can listen to Criminal, this is Love and Phoebe reads a Mystery without any ads. Plus you'll get bonus episodes. These are special episodes with me and Criminal co creator Lauren Spohr talking about everything from how we make our episodes to the crime stories that caught our attention that week to things we've been enjoying lately. To learn more, go to patreon.com criminal criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great [e-mail] I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Fox Creative.

[Brian Callahan]

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