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Criminal
The Stay
00:42:04
Last year, a committee of state lawmakers in Texas issued a subpoena for a man on death row to testify four days after he was scheduled to be executed. Today, what happened next in Robert Roberson's case.
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- [00:01]
Phoebe Judge
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- [01:19]
Kayla Guo
Normally in just a news reporting business in general, you kind of have a sense of what at least are the options for what might happen. That was not the case for this story.
- [01:32]
Phoebe Judge
Kayla Guo is a reporter for the Texas Tribune. She's talking about the case of a man on death row named Robert Roberson. Robert Roberson was born in Mineola, Texas in 1966. In his 20s, he spent time in prison for burglary and passing bad checks. By his mid-30s, he was living in a small town between Houston and Dallas and had a job delivering newspapers. In the early 2000s, he learned that he had a daughter. Her name was Nikki, and he got custody of her just after she turned two. Her mother had lost custody soon after Nikki was born. Nikki had been sick for a lot of her life. By the time she was 2, she'd been to the doctor more than 40. She had breathing problems and kept getting infections that were resistant to antibiotics. In January of 2002, a couple of months after Nikki had started living with Robert, he took her to the emergency room. She'd been coughing and vomiting for days. A doctor prescribed a drug called Phenergan to help with her nausea. Nikki was sent home, but her temperature started going up at the pediatrician's office. The next day her temperature was 104.5.
- [02:52]
Kayla Guo
Her condition had only gotten worse and she had been again sick for some time.
- [02:59]
Phoebe Judge
Now she was prescribed morphenergan, but this time it was in a cough syrup with codeine. At the same time, Robert's girlfriend was in the hospital, and so Nikki stayed with her maternal grandparents. Robert picked Nikki up the next night. Robert says when they got home, he made Nikki a snack and they watched a movie together until they were falling asleep. Robert put Nikki to bed in his bed so she wouldn't be sleeping alone. Robert says that around 5am he woke up because he heard a strange cry and saw that Nikki had fallen out of the bed. He says he talked to her for two hours to make sure she was okay, and then they went back to sleep. He says that when his alarm went off around 9am he couldn't wake her up, even when he grabbed her face and shook it and her lips were turning blue.
- [03:53]
Kayla Guo
So he rushed her to the emergency room at that point.
- [03:57]
Phoebe Judge
At the hospital, doctors performed CPR and intubated Nikki. Hospital staff noticed a bump on the back of her head and performed a CAT scan which showed blood between her brain and her skull. The scan also showed brain swelling, but no fractures. Nikki was transferred to the Children's Medical center in Dallas. Soon after she got there, she was given more scans, and she was also examined by a child abuse expert.
- [04:28]
Kayla Guo
The doctors saw symptoms that at that time told them to diagnose shaken baby syndrome.
- [04:36]
Phoebe Judge
The idea of shaken baby syndrome first came about in the early 1970s, when a neurosurgeon in England started noticing that some of the infants and children he was treating had bleeding between the brain and the skull without any outward signs of head injury. Social workers told him that they'd noticed parents attempting to discipline their babies by shaking them. And the neurosurgeon theorized that the mysterious bleeding could have been caused by shaking. A radiologist in Pennsylvania later came up with the term whiplash shaken infant syndrome. Eventually, it became a more formal diagnosis. And in 2001, the year before Nicky was taken to the hospital, the American association of Pediatrics published a paper that recommended a presumption of child abuse when an infant came in with certain symptoms.
- [05:32]
Kayla Guo
The medical consensus said that if a child presented with a triad of symptoms, that means unexplained bleeding in the brain, bleeding behind the retinas, and brain swelling. Doctors could and should make a diagnosis of shaken baby syndrome, and they could presume that somebody had violently shaken this baby and caused these injuries.
- [05:55]
Phoebe Judge
Nikki had all three symptoms. The day after she arrived at the medical center, she was taken off of life support. Robert was not told before. And how did he hear that Nikki had died?
- [06:10]
Kayla Guo
Nikki had been transported to Dallas without Robert knowing. And so I don't know exactly how he found out she had died, but she died when he was not with her, and he was not in Dallas with her when she died.
- [06:26]
Phoebe Judge
The child abuse expert at the hospital signed a statement that day stating that in Nikki's case, there had been, quote, some flinging or shaking component which resulted in bleeding between the brain and the skull, along with diffuse brain injury. Robert was arrested before the autopsy was performed and charged with capital murder. And what did he say when he was told that this was shaken baby syndrome and he was going to be charged with her murder?
- [07:02]
Kayla Guo
He has maintained his innocence through all of this. He. One of the. One of the aspects impacting the investigation is he's a man with autism, and that wasn't a diagnosis that the doctors or investigators knew about at the time that he had at the time. But investigators have said they looked at his flat affect as evidence of his guilt. The investigator, the lead investigator in his case, Brian Wharton, he said that Robert didn't seem too concerned in that moment, wasn't reacting how you might expect another parent to react in that situation when their child seems to be in grave danger. His emotional reaction to, I think both Nikki's condition at the time and his arrest later on, his expressive reaction was atypical. And that was one of the things that I think investigators thought was evidence of his guilt at the time. At the trial, the state's case hinged on this shaken baby diagnosis, which again, presumes abuse on the part of the caretaker in this case, Robert. They pointed to Nikki's autopsy report. They had a few medical experts come testify, one being the person who conducted the autopsy. And they described Nikki as ill. And they describe blunt force trauma to her head, which is consistent with shaken baby syndrome. Shaking is not distinguishable from what you might normally think of as blunt force.
- [08:44]
Phoebe Judge
The medical examiner who performed the autopsy had concluded that Nikki's death was a homicide and testified that, quote, when a child is shaken hard enough, the brain is actually moving back and forth within the skull, impacting the skull itself. The child abuse expert at the hospital in Dallas testified that, quote, it is not something that ever happens accidentally. It is not something you see in normal children who are cared for by reasonable adults. And what did Robert Roberson and his defense attorney say had happened at trial?
- [09:23]
Kayla Guo
Robert had maintained his innocence, but his defense attorney at the time did not pursue the innocence claim. His defense attorney's defense was mainly that Robert hadn't meant to kill Nikki in allegedly shaking her. And so that Was the entirety of his defense was that he didn't mean to ultimately kill her. Again, Robert has said he was innocent of it and that there was no shaking involved to begin with, that Nikki was just deeply ill and this was the final collapse.
- [09:57]
Phoebe Judge
He said that she was sick and had fallen off the bed?
- [10:01]
Kayla Guo
Yes. He had said immediately in the aftermath of it all that she had fallen off the bed and he couldn't explain. He didn't have the medical expertise to explain her condition. And that was what he said had just happened, was he woke up to find her falling from the bed. And that's what prompted him to bring her to the emergency room.
- [10:23]
Phoebe Judge
And the lawyer said, okay, fine, maybe, you know, she was shaken, but he didn't mean. He didn't mean to hurt her.
- [10:31]
Kayla Guo
Right. In the medical community at the time, the consensus was if a. If an infant shows up with these three symptoms, pretty much by default, automatically you assume abuse. And so I think that was a really strong driving factor in the course of the trial, was this confidence, not just from these doctors who treated Nikki, but from the broader medical community. The broader medical guidance instructed doctors to do this. If you see these three things, it's abuse. And that, I think, really informed how the prosecutor handled it, how his defense attorney handled it, and how a jury handled it as well.
- [11:12]
Phoebe Judge
Robert Roberson was convicted of murder and sentenced to death.
- [11:16]
Kayla Guo
Texas tends to go through with its executions once they're on the calendar. And so it seemed like that is how it would go. But never could I have guessed or imagined it would become the story that it did. Everything that happened was unprecedented. So there's no guidance or real ability to predict what might happen next.
- [11:37]
Phoebe Judge
I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. We'll be right back. Support for Criminal comes from quints. With quints, you can buy yourself some really nice new things to wear, but at a reasonable price. They also sell shoes and bags and jewelry. If you've ever heard Lauren complain about my bracelets making noise during an interview, you know that I'm a fan of bangles. Quince offers a classic plain gold bangle, which I like. And they have other options too, but not so many that it's overwhelming. The same goes for their sweaters and blouses. With Quince, you can pick from a few curated options to find a classic quality piece that you feel like yourself wearing whatever you're looking for. All of Quince's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. You can give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince. Go to quince.com criminal for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I-N-C-E.com criminal to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com criminal support for criminal comes from Zocdoc it can be hard to find a new doctor, especially one that's accepting new patients and who can see you when you'd like to see them. Zocdoc makes finding a doctor and scheduling appointments easier than ever before. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. Appointments made through the app can happen quickly, often within 72 hours of booking. If you need to see someone right away, Zocdoc can help you find someone with an opening that same day. You can stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com criminal to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zocdoc.com criminal Zocdoc.com criminal Ten years after Robert Roberson was convicted, Texas became the first state to pass a law that allowed courts to reconsider cases that relied on science that has since evolved or been discredited. It's been called the junk science law.
- [14:30]
Kayla Guo
It was a really widely heralded law. It was imitated across the country. Texas was seen as sort of a trailblazer and lawmakers passed this law in an effort to acknowledge that science changes and the understanding of science and evidence evolves as scientific knowledge gets better. And the criminal justice system at this point wasn't equipped to acknowledge that the.
- [14:58]
Phoebe Judge
Science behind all kinds of forensic evidence that one seems certain has changed. Bite marks, burn patterns, blood spatter analysis, and also shaken baby syndrome, specifically the link between three symptoms and the assumption of abuse.
- [15:16]
Kayla Guo
Studies showed that many of those same symptoms could also be caused by shortfalls, some naturally occurring medical conditions, accidental traumas. And research has also found that shaking baby that violence would likely have broken their neck, which Nikki did not have a broken neck at the time. So the medical consensus around how to make these diagnoses has changed. The medical guidance now also emphasizes that a doctor should consider all other possible factors leading to these symptoms that aren't abuse before they can conclude that it was abuse that did it. So it's a pretty fraught diagnosis. It's certainly a real condition. It's just fraught on how and when doctors make that diagnosis and point to abuse versus a naturally occurring medical condition or some other accidental trauma.
- [16:11]
Phoebe Judge
In 2012, the neurosurgeon who had originally proposed the idea of shaken baby syndrome wrote that it was a hypothesis, not proven medical or scientific facts. By 2015, at least 16 people around the country who had been convicted using the shaken baby syndrome diagnosis had been exonerated. One judge called it more an article of faith than a proposition of science. Robert Roberson's execution was scheduled for June 21, 2016. He got a new lawyer who filed an appeal for him based on the junk science law, saying the science around.
- [16:54]
Kayla Guo
Shaken baby syndrome has changed. That's clear in his case. The court should give it a second look. The state's highest criminal court agreed and said, okay, this warrants a second look. They sent his case back down to the trial court to handle the new evidence claim. And that is notable because the state's highest criminal court, more often than not, does not allow for that and usually affirms the state's case and is sort of prosecutorially minded. But in this case, they agreed. Mielas gave it a second look and instructed the trial court to do that.
- [17:33]
Phoebe Judge
Robert Roberson's execution, which was scheduled five days later, was put on hold. His lawyers tried to get access to Nikki's medical records and asked experts to look at them and explain what they thought had happened. Robert's lawyers were especially interested in finding scans of Nikki's head that had been made immediately after she arrived at the emergency room. The jury in Robert Roberson's trial hadn't seen these scans, and neither had the medical examiner who performed Nikki's autopsy. Initially, no one could find them. But then, in 2018, a new employee at the court found a box in a courthouse basement which included the scans.
- [18:19]
Kayla Guo
And what they produced for a evidentiary hearing in 2020. One was just reams and reams of evidence and experts saying, one, the consensus around shaken baby diagnoses has changed, and two, the evidence in Nikki's case doesn't support a shaken baby diagnosis to begin with.
- [18:42]
Phoebe Judge
Experts pointed to the fact that Nikki had been a very sick child and that she had had breathing problems before her death. They also pointed out that she had been prescribed medications that are no longer prescribed to children, including high doses of phenergan, which later had a black box warning against prescribing it to children who are under two or have a history of respiratory issues, and codeine, which is an opioid that the FDA now restricts for children because of the risks of breathing problems and death. They also said that Nikki had had.
- [19:20]
Kayla Guo
Undiagnosed pneumonia that, again, all contributed to her ultimate death and that it wasn't shaking. And they also point to a lot of problems, they say, in how Nikki was handled. They say that the doctor who performed the autopsy before she made her conclusion was already told that Robert had been arrested for homicide, which these days, I think experts would say would taint an autopsy provider's ultimate conclusions about what caused this person's death. They also point to other problems in his trial, such as one nurse testifying that she saw evidence of sexual abuse on Nikki that another expert refuted during the trial and that the prosecutors didn't bring up any other evidence for, but still mentions it in their closing statement. So they've raised all sorts of problems with the trial itself, and they've also tried to bring up all of this new evidence to offer an alternative explanation for Nikki's death. And they say it was natural and accidental.
- [20:25]
Phoebe Judge
The state responded, saying that the evidence they'd presented at the trial that Robert had shaken Nikki was still convincing. Prosecutors called the medical examiner who had performed the autopsy to testify, and she said that she did not see any evidence that Nikki had chronic pneumonia or that her injuries could have resulted from a short fall from the bed. She said that blunt force trauma and not an infection stopped her breathing. The judge wrote, while the applicant has shown that there is new scientific evidence not available at the time of his trial, he has failed to show by a preponderance of evidence that had this new evidence been presented at trial, he would not have been convicted.
- [21:10]
Kayla Guo
The trial judge decided, let's move forward with his conviction, his execution. We think that the court handled it right the first time. The jury handled it right the first time, you know, cleared the way for Robert's execution to move forward at that point. And it really wasn't until last July that we had a new execution date and that it was set for October.
- [21:36]
Phoebe Judge
So what. What options were left for Robert Roberson?
- [21:41]
Kayla Guo
They. They asked the court to reconsider. They asked the court to look again more carefully at the evidence they've presented. They say they don't believe the evidence has been meaningfully engaged with by the courts. And they ask the courts to look again. They get new experts to come in and to give their evaluation of Nikki's medical records and understanding of shaken baby diagnoses and what can cause an infant to die like she did. And they just asked the court to try again and to look again. And the court repeatedly says, no, we won't do it. Not because, you know, we've looked at what you're saying. And we don't think that warrants a different action from us. Not because we don't believe in the merits of your, of your argument, but based on procedural grounds. You know, we just stand by what we decided beforehand.
- [22:31]
Phoebe Judge
They emphasized blunt force trauma as the cause of death. They felt that it was still clear that Nikki's death was a homicide, as the autopsy had concluded. And the court seemed to agree.
- [22:45]
Kayla Guo
And that left Robert with fairly few options. And going into in the week leading up to his execution date, it seemed his only option was to receive clemency from the board of pardons and paroles or for the governor to step in. The governor has the authority to issue a one time 30 day reprieve. But other than that, it didn't seem like he really had any options after all of his appeals were struck down by the court. At the same time, there's this public campaign brewing urging somebody to do something. At this point, he has advocates like John Grisham, who has spoken on his behalf. Dr. Phil, the lead investigator in his case, has spoken to media and testified in public forums and has been very vocal about his belief that he got it wrong and this is an innocent person, he believes. Texas state lawmakers also weigh in and they're urging the clemency board to grant him clemency and to recommend clemency. They're urging the governor to step in, but at the end of the day, you know, he's still sentenced to death. That is still, you know, the facts of the case, no matter how many people speak out on his behalf. And it would have required either somebody on the court's criminal court deciding, maybe we got this wrong, maybe let's do yet another look. Or the district attorney saying, maybe there's some problems with how we prosecuted this case, or, you know, it would have required some select few people had to change their minds in order to actually make a difference in his.
- [24:27]
Phoebe Judge
So all of this is going on in the days leading up to his execution. This gigantic public campaign, and his lawyers behind the scenes doing everything they can to try to convince someone to stop this execution.
- [24:41]
Kayla Guo
Yes. And also in the week before his execution was set the state's highest criminal court, the same court that has denied his appeals over and over again, overturned another shaken baby syndrome conviction out of Dallas county. In that opinion, the court acknowledged that the scientific knowledge around shaken baby has evolved and believes that this conviction and this other person's case was wrong. And so his lawyers are pointing to that, as you've acknowledged, that the science has changed. Why can't you acknowledge it? Also in Robert's case, a large majority of the Texas House has signed a letter urging clemency at this point, which is really rare to get that number on. 86 lawmakers signed this letter urging clemency. It's rare to get that number on most things, much less, you know, something about the death penalty. But they were united in believing that something here had gone wrong, and this was someone who deserved another look.
- [25:47]
Phoebe Judge
One day before Robert's scheduled execution, the Texas House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee met for a hearing.
- [25:55]
Kayla Guo
And at this hearing, they invited a bunch of different expert witnesses, people who study criminal justice in the state, medical experts, the prosecuting district attorney, and Robert's appeals attorney to come testify. They laid out all this evidence that a jury had never heard that had not been presented to the jury at the time. Again, because the science was different at the time. Taking this discussion over, is he innocent or is he guilty? Out of the courtroom and into sort of the public discourse, into the. To the state Capitol, which is not where death penalty cases are litigated, but this is where the lawmakers had taken it.
- [26:33]
Phoebe Judge
Tell me about the testimony of the lead detective who investigated Nikki's death.
- [26:39]
Kayla Guo
It was intense. He, I believe, was the first witness to come before the committee that morning. The hearing room was fairly packed at that point, and his testimony was emotional. It was personal. And he was reaching 20 years into his memory to tell lawmakers about how he believed he got it wrong and how he helped send what he now thinks is an innocent man to death row. The hearing room was really tense. You know, I didn't even want to type for fear of, you know, making too much noise and sort of interrupting the moment.
- [27:29]
Phoebe Judge
Kayla says that the detective told lawmakers he'd relied too much on the medical consensus at the time. And he said his perception of Robert's flat affect as an indication of guilt was wrong. He hadn't known that Robert had autism.
- [27:45]
Kayla Guo
But he said that in the years after, he had always had this nagging feeling that this wasn't a slam dunk. And if you're going to send someone to death, it better be a slam dunk. It better be completely clear, no doubts whatsoever.
- [28:00]
Phoebe Judge
The detective said, quote, I told my wife last week that I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed that I was so focused on finding an offender and convicting someone that I did not see Robert. The hearing lasted more than eight hours.
- [28:15]
Kayla Guo
I had not been prepared for this hearing to last so long. Again, it was a. It had going into the hearing. It had felt remarkable because it was the legislature making some really loud noise about this case that was not really within their jurisdiction. The State House doesn't get to say what happens in a criminal case, and so I'd gone in not thinking it would last this long. Don't think I had a laptop charger. One of my co workers had to bring me a granola bar at one point, so it was running on very little. By the end of this hearing, it had mostly emptied. I was one of the few reporters who was still in there. I had already messaged my editor saying I was about to file the story I had written for the night and that the hearing was wrapping up.
- [29:03]
Phoebe Judge
And then the committee issued a subpoena for Robert Roberson to testify four days after he was scheduled to be executed. He can't show up to subpoena if he's dead.
- [29:16]
Kayla Guo
He can't show up to a subpoena if he's dead.
- [29:24]
Phoebe Judge
We'll be right back. Support for Criminal comes from Mint Mobile it's hard to stick to a budget when expenses you're expecting to be the same each month like your wireless plan, expand because of hidden fees. If you'd like to switch to a more affordable plan with no surprise fees, consider Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile offers phone plans for less than their major competitors. Any three month plan is just $15 a month and you'll get unlimited talk and text and high speed 5G data. A friend of ours canceled his contract with a major cell phone carrier and has been using Mint and he says his phone works exactly the same but he's spending a lot less. He says he wishes he switched sooner. If you like your money, Mint Mobile may be for you. You can shop plans@mintmobile.com Phoebe that's mintmobile.com Phoebe upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5GB plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for criminal comes from ADT. ADT's trusted neighbor sets a higher standard for home security systems. In the ADT plus app, you can give immediate or scheduled access to your home to neighbors and friends. You can also let people know when a package has arrived or an alarm is going off. And you can set limited access windows for planned guests like a dog walker, all without interrupting your day. Visit ADT.com when every second counts. Count on ADT requires ADT Complete Pro monitoring plan and compatible devices. Copyright 2025 ADT LLC. All rights reserved. Were people kind of in shock about this subpoena tactic?
- [31:39]
Kayla Guo
Absolutely. I think there wasi mean the lawmakers really got creative in issuing this, and it had never been pulled before, so no one could say what it meant or what it would do. The governor, the attorney general, they all saw it as a massive overreach by this committee to try to do this.
- [32:01]
Phoebe Judge
When you went to bed that night, what were you expecting to happen the next day? The day of Robert Roberson's scheduled execution?
- [32:11]
Kayla Guo
By the time we wrapped up all our coverage and the story that I had written for that night and the other story I'd written for the morning, I probably went to sleep around 1am and woke up not really knowing what to expect. And we wanted to be prepared for whatever may happen. So I actually spent the day of his execution writing up his obituary.
- [32:37]
Phoebe Judge
Robert was scheduled to be executed around 6pm Legislators on the committee that issued the subpoena argued that Robert Roberson's experiences and being the first potential shaken baby syndrome execution made him the only person who could testify about the impacts of certain aspects of the junk science law. They asked for a stay of execution to allow Robert to respond to the subpoena and testify. Their request was denied by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals and the US Supreme Court. The execution would move forward. But then, less than an hour and a half before the execution was scheduled, a district court judge issued a temporary restraining order validating the subpoena and blocking the execution. Then, at the attorney general's request, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals vacated the restraining order. The execution was back on. So the legislators on the committee asked the state supreme Court to step in.
- [33:46]
Kayla Guo
I mean, throughout the day, it was such a rollercoaster. And when the clock struck 6pm we knew that he could be executed at any moment. And, you know, it was never clear whether or not that would happen that night.
- [34:00]
Phoebe Judge
So all the preparations are moving forward for this execution.
- [34:04]
Kayla Guo
All the preparations are moving forward. Two Texas lawmakers went to where. Where Texas executes its prisoners. They went to that prison and were ready to be there in the room watching if or when this execution moved forward. They had prepped Robert Roberson for it. You know, there were people outside the prison, protesters. Everyone was set up, you know, believing this could very well happen.
- [34:34]
Phoebe Judge
That night, around 9:45pm the Texas Supreme Court sent out its opinion.
- [34:40]
Kayla Guo
I see it first on x, because they tweet out their opinions or announcements like that.
- [34:46]
Phoebe Judge
The tweet read, the supreme Court of Texas has granted a Texas House of Representatives emergency motion, in part, an issue to stay effectively halting the execution of Robert Roberson. It included a link to the judge's opinion.
- [35:05]
Kayla Guo
The Texas Supreme Court said they're doing another unprecedented thing, which was the Texas Supreme Court is issuing the stay of Robert's execution to give it time to, to consider the separation of powers issue that the subpoena had caused. And so there was just this big sense of relief in that moment, but also this sense of, okay, what comes next?
- [35:27]
Phoebe Judge
Did Robert Roberson start preparing to testify?
- [35:31]
Kayla Guo
There were plans in place for him to go testify on that Monday. The committee wanted to have him come testify in person. And later on, his attorney said that the, you know, some high ranking officials at the Criminal Justice Department had called her, said they were committed to doing everything they could to take him to the state Capitol, which is about a two or three hour drive from death row.
- [35:58]
Phoebe Judge
One prison official offered to find Robert some clothes so that he wouldn't have to wear his prison uniform while he testified. And prison staff asked Robert what his favorite color was so they could find him something in that color.
- [36:12]
Kayla Guo
He, according to his lawyer, ended up replying that he didn't know what his favorite color was because he had been in his death row, all white uniform for the past 20 years. But there was this flurry of activity to, you know, get organized and get the logistics straight so that he could be brought to the Capitol on Monday, four days later to testify. But over the weekend, at some point, the state Attorney General's office intervened. They said he would only be allowed to testify over video. They cited, quote, unquote, public safety reasons, and, you know, this would be too big of a lift for the Criminal Justice Department to carry out. So they, they essentially said it's either over video or nothing. The committee and Robert's lawyers opposed that because they said this is a man with autism, which has been part of his problem from the beginning, that there's a miscommunication that happens between what he says and how he emotes with the people with authority listening to him. And also he hasn't had experience with technology. And they said a virtual testimony would be totally ineffective and would be a detriment to him.
- [37:25]
Phoebe Judge
But the Attorney General's office and the legislative committee couldn't agree on a plan in time. A couple of days later, the Attorney General's office sent out a statement to, quote, correct falsehoods. It said that Robert had murdered Nikki, that the junk science objection has, quote, no basis in reality, and that Robert was lawfully sentenced to death and had, quote, exhausted every legally available appellate avenue. Members of Nikki's family on her mother's side, including her maternal grandfather, wrote a letter to the legislators on the committee. Towards the end of the letter, they said, we remain convinced that Mr. Roberson is guilty and directly responsible for Nikki's death. Nikki's death is a real tragedy in this case and her loss has left a profound hole in all of our hearts. In December, the legislative committee issued another subpoena for Robert to testify, but that hasn't happened either. So what happens now?
- [38:33]
Kayla Guo
Your guess is as good as mine. What happens now? He is still sentenced to death. The district attorney has not requested a new execution date yet. I don't know why not. She hasn't responded to my request to know why. It's unclear what legal pathways and legal argument he can make for himself at this point. One thing of note is that since his last appeal was denied by the state's highest criminal court, elections have taken place and replaced three of the judges on the bench. And so there's a new slate of judges who would be considering his appeals if his lawyers filed a new one. So it's unclear. Maybe they would have a different opinion. Somebody might have a different opinion. But I mean, unless, unless the court grants a new appeal from him or the district attorney agrees to take a second look at the end of the day, he's still sentenced to death and could be executed within a matter of months.
- [39:42]
Phoebe Judge
In late November, the judge who signed the death warrant last year and who had decided against ordering a new trial for Robert Roberson in 2021 recused herself from the case. She didn't give a reason. A new judge hasn't been assigned. Caleb Wo will continue reporting on Robert's case and has agreed to come back and update us. Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Roberson, Jackie Sajiko, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them@thisiscriminal.com and you can sign up for a newsletter@thisiscriminal.com Newsletter. We hope you'll consider supporting our work by joining our membership program Criminal. Plus, you can listen to Criminal, this is Love and Phoebe reads a mystery without any ads. Plus you'll get bonus episodes. These are special episodes with me and Criminal co creator Lauren Spohr talking about everything from how we make our episodes to the crime stories that caught our attention that week to things we've been enjoying lately. To learn more, go to thisiscriminal.com plus we're on Facebook and Twitter criminalshow and Instagram criminalpodcast. We're also on YouTube@YouTube.com criminalpodcast criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast network. Discover more great shows@podcast.voxmedia.com hi, I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Support for criminal comes from ADT. ADT's trusted neighbor sets a higher standard for home security systems. In the ADT plus app, you can give immediate or scheduled access to your home to neighbors and friends. You can also let people know when a package has arrived or an alarm is going off. And you can set limited access windows for planned guests like a dog walker, all without interrupting your day. Visit ADT.com when every second counts. Count on ADT requires ADT complete pro monitoring plan and compatible devices. Copyright 2025 ADT LLC. All rights reserved.