"Everybody Is Redeemable" — Why Baby Lucia's Parents Forgave Drunk Driver

Summary

Podcast Summary: Criminally Obsessed

Episode: “Everybody Is Redeemable”—Why Baby Lucia’s Parents Forgave Drunk Driver
Host: Anne Emerson
Guests: Matthew and Rebecca Seyfried
Date: March 19, 2026

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This deeply moving episode centers on Matthew and Rebecca Seyfried, whose 9-month-old daughter, Lucia Iris, was killed by a drunk driver in April 2025. Host Anne Emerson explores not only the devastating events surrounding Lucia’s death but, most remarkably, the Seyfrieds’ decision to forgive the man responsible. The conversation delves into their faith, family, the signs of hope they experienced, and their powerful message about redemption and mercy—even for those who cause immense harm.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Lucia Iris and the Seyfried Family

[00:00–05:48]

• Lucia’s Meaningful Name:
  • Rebecca explains the inspiration for “Lucia” from the Virgin Mary's apparition in Fatima, meaning “light,” and “Iris” for her favorite flower, also meaning “rainbow.”
    • “She was the light and the rainbow baby for us.” — Rebecca [02:05]
• “Princess Lucia” Nickname:
  • Matthew describes a playful household tradition, singing “Make way for Princess Lucia” (inspired by Aladdin) and making her brother Kenneth bow to her. [03:32-03:57]
• Family Dynamics:
  • Oldest son Kenneth (Rebecca’s biological son), raised by Matthew, is described as a doting older brother with a joyful bond with Lucia.

2. The Day of the Accident

[06:13–12:27]

• Recounting the Tragedy:
  • The family was enjoying a rare pleasant spring day outside their Michigan home when a drunk driver plowed through their yard, first striking their dog Penny, then Lucia, and injuring Matthew.
    • “Six days later, we’re sitting in our front yard... and we hear a big pickup truck’s engine revving, and we look up and it’s coming straight for us.” — Matthew [06:33]
• Survival and Heroism of Penny the Dog:
  • Penny survived the initial accident and became a symbol of hope and comfort for the family through the following months.
    • “We needed her to help us through this. It’s amazing what dogs can do.” — Matthew [11:34]
  • Penny is called a “superhero” for possibly trying to protect Lucia.

3. Signs of Hope & Faith in Grief

[12:27–19:56]

• Three Signs:
  1. Penny’s Survival:
     • “He gave us Penny... to help get us through that, so that she could comfort us through that, and then took her home.” — Rebecca [13:30–14:18]
  2. Heavenly Vision:
     • On the third day after the accident, Matthew, Rebecca, and Lucia’s babysitter each “saw” a vision of Lucia being joyously welcomed into heaven, providing deep comfort. [15:26]
  3. Rainbow Over Their Home:
     • Upon returning home after Lucia’s funeral, the family saw a pink sky and a rainbow over their house—echoing Lucia’s middle name and the deacon’s funeral homily.
       • “It was just another sign from God that’s saying… I got you guys. It’s okay. Like, I’m going to take care of you.” — Rebecca [16:09]
• Cherished Memories Through Technology:
  • Home security cameras captured precious snippets of Lucia’s last day, including her learning to wave “bye-bye.” [19:56]
    • “It’s like you’re watching a different life, you know?... our lives before this accident, now our lives after.” — Matthew [20:18]

4. The Drunk Driver: Terry Lee Boss

[21:12–26:21]

• Details of the Crime:
  • Terry Lee Boss, 56, was nearly three times over the legal BAC when he drove through the Seyfried yard, after a day of heavy drinking at a golf outing.
  • After crashing, Boss climbed out himself, “stumbling around,” and was described as confused and unaware of what he'd done at first.
    • “I end up at one point just saying to him... ‘Dude, stop. Like, you just killed my daughter. Just stop.’” — Matthew [25:53]

5. The Hard Path to Forgiveness

[26:21–31:41]

• Impact Statement at Sentencing:
  • The Seyfrieds advocated for the minimum sentence (13.5 years), allowing Boss a chance at reconciliation with his family after release.
    • “We did that because it was the minimum sentencing … it would allow you out... to reconcile and rebuild a relationship with your children and grandchildren.” — Matthew [26:33]
• Waves of Grief and Choosing Healing:
  • The couple discusses the necessity to feel every emotion (“anger, tired, sadness”) as part of their healing journey.
    • “You have to let yourself feel it. You can’t run from it. You can't try to do something that's going to, like, replace it.” — Matthew [28:40]
• Quote that Guided Them:
  • Shared by a six-year-old visitor, from St. Pope John Paul II:
    • “It is better to cry than be angry, because anger hurts others, while tears flow silently through the soul to cleanse the heart.” — Recited by Matthew [27:46]

6. Advocacy, Youth Outreach, and the Power of Redemption

[29:22–39:25]

• Speaking to Youth Groups:
  • The Seyfrieds share Lucia’s story to warn about the dangers of drunk driving and promote healthy coping with suffering.
    • “We want her legacy to be carried on. And we feel that telling her story is the best way to do that.” — Matthew [29:40]
• Everyone Is Redeemable:
  • Emphasis on “one mistake doesn’t define you”—choices after wrongdoing matter most.
    • “Everybody is redeemable. And it’s the choices you make after a bad decision.” — Rebecca [30:51]
  • The principle: “Hate the sin, but love the sinner.”
    • “To be able to hate the sin, but love the sinner... Forgiveness is a daily choice.” — Matthew [31:41]

7. Unexpected Encounters and the Power of Mercy

[35:03–41:32]

• Meeting the Drunk Driver’s Grandchildren:
  • During a youth talk, two girls left the talk overwhelmed; later, the Seyfrieds learned they were Boss’s granddaughters, realizing the wider reach of tragedy and reinforcing their path of mercy.
    • “We’re not the only ones suffering because of what happened... There’s a whole other family that is also going through pain and suffering.” — Rebecca [37:29]
• Negotiating a Merciful Sentence:
  • The Seyfrieds requested the minimum possible sentence (13.5 years), balancing societal justice and personal mercy.
    • “Society has laws. There has to be justice... but we just felt... that was a good balance.” — Matthew [40:15]
  • Prosecutors were “shocked” but honored their wishes.

8. Reflections on Remorse and Forgiveness

[41:32–47:08]

• Confronting Boss’s Remorse:
  • In court, Boss expressed sorrow; the Seyfrieds found comfort in his remorse as evidence of his potential for redemption.
    • “It was a bit of a relief for us to hear that, you know, this might not be... the end... and that it is hopeful for him.” — Rebecca [44:22]
• Forgiveness as a Spiritual Practice:
  • Matthew shares a “pivotal moment” of learning from the model of Christ’s forgiveness, especially meditating on Mary’s grief at the crucifixion.

9. Carrying Lucia’s Legacy: The Lucia Iris Foundation

[47:57–50:17]

• Mission of the Foundation:
  • Financial assistance for families who lose a child and funding for Christian counseling.
  • Sharing Lucia’s story to help others and keep her memory alive.
    • “All of the love that we still have for Lucia, we’re pouring into this foundation.” — Matthew [48:07]
• Ongoing Signs and Connection with Lucia:
  • Sightings of rainbows, comforting dreams, and small but meaningful “signs” sustain their sense of Lucia’s presence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If someone killed your loved one, be honest, could you forgive? I’m not sure I could.” — Anne Emerson [00:18]
• “She was the light and the rainbow baby for us.” — Rebecca [02:05]
• “It is better to cry than be angry, because anger hurts others, while tears flow silently through the soul to cleanse the heart.” — Shared from St. Pope John Paul II, via Matthew [27:46]
• “We can hate the sin, but love the sinner.” — Matthew [31:41]
• “Forgiveness is a daily choice. It is something that we have to choose every single day and multiple moments in a day.” — Matthew [31:41]
• “We want Lucia’s life to be carried on. We want her legacy to be carried on. And we feel that telling her story is the best way to do that.” — Matthew [29:40]
• “Everybody is redeemable. And it’s the choices you make after a bad decision that are really going to identify who you are.” — Rebecca [30:51]
• “All of the love that we still have for Lucia, we’re pouring into this foundation.” — Matthew [48:07]
• “We definitely feel like she sends us signs, especially... in our weakest of moments, whether it be through rainbows or just little signs...” — Rebecca [48:55]
• “You are amazing. You're amazing parents. You both have just been a joy to talk to.” — Anne Emerson [50:17]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–05:48 — Lucia’s Life, Family Structure, Meaning of Her Name
• 06:13–12:27 — The Accident, Penny the Dog, Immediate Aftermath
• 12:27–19:56 — Signs of Hope, Visions, Rainbow, Captured Memories
• 21:12–26:21 — Learning About the Drunk Driver, First Emotions
• 26:21–31:41 — Sentencing, Anger, Forgiveness, Healing
• 29:22–39:25 — Youth Outreach, Forgiving the Unforgivable
• 35:03–41:32 — Encounter with Driver’s Grandchildren, The Plea Deal
• 41:32–47:08 — Facing Remorse, Meditating on Forgiveness
• 47:57–50:17 — Foundation, Continuing Lucia’s Legacy, Ongoing Signs

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Tone and Language

The conversation is warm, raw, often tearful but always compassionate—marked by the Seyfrieds’ strong Christian faith, a deep sense of loss, and a remarkable willingness to let light, not darkness, define Lucia’s legacy. Anne Emerson fosters reflection and empathy throughout, with a blend of professional insight and maternal understanding.

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This episode is a testament to the power of forgiveness, the possibility of spiritual transformation after unspeakable tragedy, and a call to prevent such losses in the future—all while keeping Lucia’s light ever present.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Criminally Obsessed. I'm Ann Emerson. I'm going to warn you right now, you'll need tissues for this conversation. This is Lucia Iris, a chubby, blue eyed, giggly baby, sweet as can be.

[B]

Who's that pretty baby?

[A]

Just nine months old. She'll forever be just nine months old. In April 2025, a drunk driver tore through the front yard of Matthew and Rebecca Seyfried's home. They live in Allegan, Michigan. He going 50 miles an hour, hitting and killing this beautiful little girl. It makes you sick to your stomach, doesn't it? But the thing that blows me away about this story is what comes next. It wasn't hate, it wasn't rage. It was forgiveness. If someone killed your loved one, be honest, could you forgive? I'm not sure I could. So I had to talk to these parents about the. How they talk about certain signs they saw along the way and what they said is honestly making me reconsider my feelings. Matthew and Rebecca, thank you so much for joining us. It's such an honor to get to speak to you both. We've been following your story and as heartbreaking as it is, I think there's a lot of people out there that need to know that you're doing what you're doing and bringing light, literally to a situation that is, is so hard. But I wanted to get started and, and talk a little bit about this beautiful little girl, Lucia Iris. Right now and throughout this interview, for those of you listening on audio, I'm going to show some gorgeous family photos of Lucia and her family. I'll post them on social media as well. If you can't see them right now, that's at Ann Investigates and Criminally Obsessed podcast on Instagram. Tell me about her name. Tell me how you came up with her beautiful name.

[B]

Yeah, so her name, Lucia, is actually from Our lady of Fatima. It's a Catholic story of where the Virgin Mary came to Lucia and her two cousins in Portugal in the early 1900s. And just a story that really resonated with us very close to the, to the Virgin Mary. So we, we loved that story. And then just following that, you know, when I was pregnant, we were talking about the name Lucia and finding out that it means light and just thought that that was really beautiful. And Iris has always been my favorite flower. And then coming to find that that means rainbow, we just thought that was the perfect combination for what that meant and in our life and how much she meant to us in that moment. So we've had troubles with fertility so, you know, that was a blessing for us. So she was the light in the rainbow baby for us.

[A]

That is so sweet. I think it really touches me too, personally as a mom, because my boy's name is Luke, and that also means light. And that always meant a lot to me, too, that it kind of had that meeting. And it does. It really does. It reflects in their personalities, and it reflects and the way we look at them and how they sort of, you know, how we experience that. But, you know, another thing that I loved about, you know, when I was looking through information about your family was that you had a nickname for her as well. Can you tell me about that?

[C]

Yeah, that was something that Princess Lucia is what we would always call her. And it started one afternoon we were just watching Aladdin, and it was this song in Aladdin, when Prince Ali comes and Kingdom they say, make way for Prince Ali. And I just started singing, make way for Princess Lucia, y'. All.

[A]

I have a photo of Lucia and Matthew on the screen right now that is going to make your heart melt. Look at those smiles.

[C]

And it became this. This thing that I did almost daily where I would just walk down our stairs and kind of chant, make way for Princess Lucia. And I'd make Rebecca, and we have another son, Kenneth, stand at the bottom of the stairs and make them bow and kind of praise Princess Lucia. And Kenneth was a great sport about it. He would at least stand at the bottom of the stairs and play along.

[A]

So that is so sweet. I. Tell me a little bit about your family. You have this 17 year old who is probably 18 now, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is he off at college yet?

[B]

Not yet. He's a senior this year at a local Christian high school year. He's been accepted to about six schools, and he's narrowed it down to two, I think, leaning towards one. So he has till the end of April to decide. And I think by the end of this month, he'll. He'll know where he's going next year.

[A]

You have this wonderful boy who just sounds amazing, and then you go through this journey of. Of trying to have another baby and. And Lucia comes into your life.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, Kenneth is my biological son. Matthew raised him since the time he was about 8 years old. And so that's. You know, Matthew's his dad, but our entire marriage, we just struggled with infertility. And so it was such a blessing when we got the news that we were pregnant with Lucia. And even more of a blessing when we found out I was a girl. I mean, our house was Just overflowing with joy. I mean, Kenneth spoiled her.

[C]

And he was such a great big brother to Lucia. He would. We have little videos of him. Him just kind of hiding underneath her, like her pack and play and popping up and then surprising her and her just giggling and smiling and. I mean, there was a special bond there. He was a great big brother.

[B]

It was crazy, too, to see, like, how a baby could recognize. I know they understand more than they can communicate, but how. She knew who he was, and her face would just light up when he would come home from school or, you know, from basketball, and. And she would get so excited, she would wave her little arms like, come get me, brother. And just knew that he was gonna. I think she knew, this guy's gonna spoil me. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it is. It's incredible how they. How they bond like that so quickly. It's like an imprint. April 2025, as we go towards that. That time, and we're coming up to that anniversary. Can you tell me as much as you can tell me.

[C]

We love sharing the accident and sharing the details of what happened, because we feel like this is a calling. So we've begun actually speaking about what has happened and. And to know the full story, to hear the full story. I mean, there's a. I don't know if you have heard this, but. So the accident happened on April 26, 2025, and that was the Saturday after Easter. So just a few days prior to the accident happening, the Monday after Easter, I was. I took my truck to the auto body shop just to get a dent worked out. And I was walking back and I was praying on my walk back, and I said, lord, our life is too good. We don't deserve it. Right? There's so many blessings, but, Lord, let us suffer because it's through suffering that we can become intimately close to you and to know your suffering that you endured on the cross. So I prayed that prayer, prayed with my whole heart. Six days later, we're sitting in our front yard and just enjoying the sunset, and we hear a big pickup trucks engine revving, and we look up and it's coming straight for us. And ended up hitting Lucia head on and. And running her over. And as you can imagine, you know, a lot of chaos ensued and lots of emotions that came in the days that followed. But our faith, if it was not for our faith helping us through this, I don't. We don't know how people endure tragedy without having a strong faith.

[A]

And you are also injured. Am I right, Matthew?

[C]

Yeah. So the Trough as it was coming, it first hit our dog, Penny, who ended up passing away just a couple days ago, actually, but she survived the accident. And then as it hit Penny, it then hit Lucia. And then it was continuing forward. I was standing probably maybe about 10 yards away, give or take. And as I watched it hit our dog and Lucia, I realized I was as it was continuing forward, like this is going to hit me. And so at the last minute, I tried to kind of like jump out of the way and it clipped my, my right knee and then threw me into a tree. And then it kind of is blurry, but Rebecca says what she saw was it kind of pinned me up against the tree and then it can. The truck continued to hit like another tree and then flipped into our lake.

[A]

Oh, my God. And you, where were you, Rebecca? But where, where were you?

[B]

I was sitting about a foot away from Lucia on the ground. So we were both sitting on the ground. Just. It was one of the first nice days we had. You know, for those who don't know, Michigan winter lasts a long time. So April is one of the first days that we had that was a nice day. And so we decided to go outside. We were all little stir crazy. And she loved playing in the grass, like, unlike my older son, who would like pop his leg straight up, like, don't let me touch that grass. She loved it. And she would play with it, try to pull it up from the ground. So we thought, let's just go outside, sit in the front yard, let her play in the grass. So it was really just sitting about a foot away from her in the grass. When the truck came revving through, he actually accelerated all the way through into the tree. They say it's like an error that's made a lot of times with drunk passenger or drunk drivers, rather, is that instead of hitting the brake, you accidentally hit the gas. Yeah. So he accelerated through going about 50 miles an hour. They estimated through video footage and reconstruction. On our road, it's only a 25 mile an hour speed limit, which most people around there go about 10 to 15 because there is a little bit of a turn there. He's going pretty fast.

[A]

So, you know, and we will, we will, we will get to who was behind the wheel, that car. But I want to, I wanted to, to, to touch on, on your dog Penny, because from everything I've read that you've shared with others about this day, Penny was a hero in herself. If you're listening on audio right now, grab some tissues and head over to YouTube. I want you to see Penny with Lucia, this big, beautiful dog with this

[C]

sweet little girl, Lucia. Is Penny your toy? Did Penny give me that back? Did Penny give me that bag, Penny? No. She asked was. Penny is kind of the unsung hero. So after the accident, we really needed a win. And actually, I'm reaching to my desk because. So the animal hospital, they made this for her. It's a little. Little patch that they put on her arm from the hype Innovated. Like super Penny is what they call her. And so this is superhero Penny. Superhero Penny says keep this.

[A]

For those listening. Matthew just pulled a little red medical bandage out of his desk. It's the Superman logo, but with a P for Penny. My heart.

[C]

But, yeah, we. We needed her to. To help us through this. It's amazing what dogs can do and

[A]

what kind of dog.

[C]

Golden retriever.

[B]

The best.

[A]

You're killing me. Yeah, the. The retrievers know we had one, and we used to call Nana because she used to chase my. My crazy Luke around. And when he was 2, on the beach, he would have to herd him back to us. Most children know to stay with you, right? Not this one.

[B]

No. No.

[A]

There's a whole beach to go find.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But goldens are. Goldens are my heart, for sure.

[B]

She actually ran in front of the vehicle. We think she was maybe trying to get to Lucia, but she was not in the way of the vehicle. She ran to it, I think, trying to get. Trying to get to Lucia.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why we call her a superhero. Yeah.

[A]

That is so sweet. You know, in the days following this, you had shared that you saw signs of hope out there.

[C]

So there were three. We will talk about when we. When we share, we kind of talk about how the first sign of hope really was, was Penny. We, like I said, you know, we had no idea if she was going to live or not. The doctors told us it was 50, 50 chance for her living, and we had to make the decision right then and there. Rebecca asked the doctors, the vets if, like, has anybody elected to do this? Because she was. I think it was about 7 to $8,000 to keep her overnight for a few days. And no one. They said that they've never had somebody elect to actually spend the money to try and keep their dog alive. So they couldn't give us a good, you know, statistic one way or the other on the chances. And they said it was really just going to be dependent upon her will to live. And so, you know, we decided to take that leap of faith. We started Praying right then and there in the room and said, lord, if we're going to spend this money, you know, please let her live. And she did. So she survived. That's the first sign.

[B]

And then he gave us Penny, and we had 10 great months with her. And then literally the weekend prior to sentencing, she, I feel like, waited for Kenneth to get home, and they were just playing in the yard, doing what they love to do, throwing a stick. And she did pass suddenly, but I think that that was even probably better off. And it seemed like she literally just held on. And God granted her 10 more months to let us get through this process. And anyone that's had to go through the process of being a victim of a crime, it's tough. It's a tough process to go through. And he allowed us to have her through that process to help get us through that so that she could comfort us through that, and then took her home. We're very grateful she.

[A]

She's with Lucia now.

[B]

She is with Lucia. And Lucia adored animals. We. I mean, obsessed with animals. And so we really said, she's like, all right, you've had her long enough. I get to have her back.

[A]

She got her doggy back.

[B]

He's got her puppy back. Yeah, well, good.

[A]

That makes me happy, too.

[C]

You know, immediately after the accident, there was just days of just. We really the words, don't we. You don't really have the words to explain the feeling. It's just like this emptiness. You feel like a zombie. You're just kind of walking around like you're going through the motions of life, but you're there. You're not there mentally. And so we just kept praying, lord, let us see Lucia in heaven. And so on the third day, we end up going, so it happened Saturday. So Sunday, Monday, and then Tuesday afternoon, we go to the funeral home, and this is the first time that we're able to see Lucia's body and hold her. And so it's myself, Rebecca, and then Lindsay who watch Lucia during the day with us. And we're all talking and we say, we talk about my make way for Princess Lucia and the trumpet noise.

[B]

And.

[C]

And we were saying, we wonder if God welcomed her into heaven like that. And then almost immediately, all three of us could. Could see the exact same thing. And this is where we see, like, an aisle way of angels with horns coming to a point. And Jesus and Lucia are walking in the middle toward this distance ball of light that is just so blinding, but you can faintly make out at the end of it like this Throne. And this was something that, like, all three of us were seeing and finishing each other's sentences. And so that was something that gave us a lot of. A lot of Jo. We actually went home later that day and, like, had a grill out with friends and family because we were so, like, happy. And it's hard to explain, but just the joy that God can place on your heart.

[B]

And we declared it in the moment we said. We realized, like, we have to choose joy. We have to choose this, right? And so we just said. And when we came back, I mean, our whole family was shocked that we wanted to have a cookout, but we did, and then talked about all our favorite Lucia moments. And so that was another sign. She's buried back home in the south, and that's in Kentucky. And when we came home here to Michigan, it was just the three of us. You know, it's like all our friends and family had come those two weeks leading up to the funeral after the accident. And it's like our house was like a revolving door. There was just always somebody there. And then it's like we're driving home and it's just Matthew, myself, and Kenneth, and it's that reality is hitting in of what our new normal is going to be. And it started. I could feel the grief and the wave of grief coming in. And as we're pulling onto our street, all of a sudden we see this beautiful pink sky with this, like, very, like, vibrant rainbow that's going over our house. And there was just another sign from God that's saying, like, you know, I. I got you guys. It's okay. Like, I'm going to take care of you. And immediately we all just started talking and, like, feeling better about, like, oh, it's going to be okay. Look, guys, you know, Lucy is saying hi to us.

[A]

I have chills. And if you're on audio, I want you to see this photo Matthew and Rebecca shared with me. This beautiful sky and rainbow that they know is a sign from their little girl. I'll have this photo and the others they sent to me up on Instagram at Ann Investigates.

[C]

And what's kind of crazy about that, the pink sky and the rainbow is at the funeral just two days before seeing that, the deacon that gave the homily, he gave this whole homily about Lucia being in heaven and her middle name meaning rainbow, and her chasing the rainbows in heaven, but as well, talking about how rain the rainbow being the promise that God made to Noah, that this is a new beginning. But again, it's not a sorrowful beginning, it's a hopeful beginning. And so in that moment, we're seeing this rainbow above our sky. We also got a lot of text messages from friends and family that were in Kentucky, right, five hours away, where they were also seeing a rainbow right around that same time. And so it was kind of crazy that those who were at the funeral were seeing a rainbow in Kentucky, five hours, you know, away in Michigan. There's this beautiful rainbow with the pink sky right above our house. And so now anytime we see a rainbow, we immediately think of Lucia.

[A]

So so will I.

[B]

So that's kind of a miracle in itself too, is we had just installed these cameras, like two. They're inside our house actually, like, two weeks prior to the accident. And so, like, we captured all these home videos that we would have never have had. So it's incredible that we have all of this footage. But, yeah, the morning of it was a Saturday morning, April 26, and that morning I got Lucy out of bed and I just said I had to go grocery shopping. And so I even said, like, we're going to have a mommy daughter date. And so we went out. I just went to, like, a local grocery store, but they also have clothes there, so of course we had to get baby girl some outfits while we were there too. And so we were coming home and we were showing dad her new outfits. And we had just started to show her that morning, like, I've been doing it all week, trying to show her how to wave bye bye. And we were FaceTiming Gigi, which is Grandma Matthew's mom, and trying to get her to do it. And so we kept saying like, bye bye. And then all of a sudden, she just starts to do it. It's so incredible because we had where we were at in our kitchen. We captured it on one of those cameras. So it was literally the morning of her passing. She had the opportunity to say bye bye to us.

[A]

Matthew and Rebecca were kind enough to share this video with our team. And I want to play it here for you now.

[B]

Say bye bye and say bye Bye.

[C]

Bye. Bye.

[B]

Bye bye. Say bye Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye bye. She's doing it. She's doing it. It's kind of an incredible blessing.

[A]

It's.

[C]

I'll just tell you this. For the ring doorbell cameras, they only hold on to them for about, I think, like 30 to 60 days. And so for the next, like 30 to 60 days immediately after the accident, we spent like those days just making sure we would not, like, we just everything we could just to make sure that we always could. Yeah. And it was kind of. It's kind of crazy when you watch them because you're. It's like you're looking in. You're. It's like you're watching a different life, you know, I mean, you've got, like, this. You know, our lives before this accident, now our lives after this accident. And when you go back and you watch and it's. It. It makes. There's also. There's moments where just you have daily life, right. And, you know, Rebecca Reka's cleaning the house on cooking dinner. So Lucia is, like, in her high chair and she's crying because she wants us to pick her up. But live life, right? But like, in moments, you watch it and you're like, stop cooking dinner. Just go pick up your baby, you

[B]

know, or just me holding her, vacuuming around, you know, holding a baby on my hip, like, it's incredible.

[A]

Yeah. And it's. It's like watching your life, right? It's like having this. This. This amazing memory that's come to life. You know, for you guys to go from, you know, this journey this year, you had to deal with another person, another life. And that's, of course, I'm talking about who was driving that truck. If you're listening, I'm gonna get this man's mug shot up on the screen right now. This is Terry Lee Boss, and he was 56 at the time of the incident. When did you start learning about him and his. How he was. When he got behind the wheel of that car?

[C]

Almost instantly, we were learning about him. The Allegan County Sheriff's Office, you know, we asked them when they were running, they doing their crash reconstruction just for a little bit of information, and they shared with us what they could at the time.

[B]

They were incredible. I mean, why we were able to talk to them so much is, you know, the crime scene was our home, so they're always there, and we got to know them very well. And the entire detective team was just absolutely incredible and so courteous to us and kind to us, and we really respected them and just all that they've done for us. And then, yeah, after that, shortly after, I think we met with the prosecution team, which I think is what Matthew was getting ready to say. And they were pretty open with us as well. Sure. I was sharing what details they had of the entire day. And, yeah, they told us right away that about an hour after the accident, they were able to, at the hospital, draw a blood sample from Terry. And he was like, almost three times the legal limit. So he was at 0.22 BAC level.

[C]

That's what the hospital had it at. But then state police had it at

[B]

0.18, which was a couple hours after that. So roughly three hours after.

[A]

So three times over the legal limit. This guy was behind the wheel driving 50 miles an hour into your life.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well put. Yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, I know. At one point, they even said that they had evidence of them talking about and confirming drinking Bloody Marys in the morning. Then they were at a golf outing all day. So they were drinking at the golf outing. I think some shots of whiskey were ordered there. And then afterwards, went into town at a liquor store and bought a fifth of liquor and continued to drink after that. And then I think, as you've probably read, there were beer cans floating in our lake for days. So there was quite a bit of where the car.

[A]

Where the truck ended up, where the truck flipped. Yeah. And when he was pulled out of this. And I've. I've heard stories. I don't know, was he. Was he conscious or he actually got

[C]

himself out to the accident.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Climbed out of the truck himself and was trying to, you know, stumbling around, but trying to, like, help. And I was on the ground. Rebecca ran immediately to Lucia to pick her up. And she was in, screaming, call 91 1. Call 91 1. And I was on the ground kind of trying to get up, crawl to, like, this boulder to lift myself up. But at that point, he had gotten out of the truck, and he started walking over to Rebecca and Lucia, which made me very angry. So I kept, like, screaming at him. And there was another vehicle that he had actually sideswiped with two younger men, like, like early 20s, mid-20s, brothers and Rebecca. Actually, at one point, they were the ones who called 911. But Rebecca was also at one point said to ask them if they would get Terry and kind of get him away from us. And luckily they did that. He had no idea, though, at that time, kind of what he had done. I end up at one point just saying to him, like, I didn't know his name, but I just said, dude, stop. Like, you just killed my daughter. Just stop. And at that point, he said he was like, oh, what? And then he just fell to the ground and just laid on the ground until police and paramedics came. Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think anger is certainly where I would have been coming from when that happened. You had to go through a lot of different stages to get to the Matthew and Rebecca. I See, in front of me, I would think I want to play for our audience a clip from the sentencing so you all at home can hear what Matthew and Rebecca had to say to this man who is responsible for taking the life of their little girl.

[B]

I forgive you for taking the life of my daughter, Lucia Iris, whose name means light and rainbow, both signs of God's eternal love and promise to us.

[C]

And when we were decided on 13 and a half years, we did that because it was the minimum sentencing for the charge that you face. And it would allow you out of prison at the age of 70, leaving you the last remaining years of your life to reconcile and rebuild a relationship with your children and grandchildren.

[A]

What was that like, to have to go through that and go through these court hearings with this. With this person, with Terri?

[B]

Yeah. I think grief comes in waves and not necessarily in any particular order. I'd say primarily, it's been our faith that has really carried us through this in our faith community, of course. Yeah. To get us through the hardest days of our life. And, I mean, I would say that for the most part, we really weren't that angry. I think there are moments of anger that I can recall, but we never let ourselves really sit in the anger. And I think that has really helped with our healing, with our ability to come to, you know, the spiritual and emotional place to forgive.

[C]

Terry, you asked about, like, the signs, right? And there was. This is one of the signs that we took. And it was shortly after the accident. I mean, it was either the week after, a few days after, a lot of visitors came over, and there was a family friend that came over, and they have a beautiful young family. And there's this little boy named Leo, who was at the time, six years old. Bright blue eyes, just like Lucia's bright blue eyes. And he looked up at us and shared this quote with us that in this quote, we really have held on to. And it's from Saint Pope John Paul ii. And it was. It is better to cry than be angry, because anger hurts others, while tears flow silently through the soul to cleanse the heart. And that is something that, like, we've really held on to. And, I mean, there are moments where we might be angry, but not angry at Terry, not angry at God, but just. You just have anger, but. Or maybe you're just exhausted, you're tired, or you're sad. And, like, what we've realized through therapy and just through this experience is whatever the emotion is that you're feeling at that point in time, you have to let Yourself, feel it. You can't run from it. You can't try to do something that's going to, like, replace it. Like, you just kind of have to let your body feel.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Uncomfortable emotion and. Yeah, maybe go for a run. Right. If you are angry, go for a run. Or if you're tired, take a nap. If you're sad, cry and let your body feel that emotion, because that is the only way to heal and to get through the grieving process is to. Is to just embrace those emotions.

[A]

Before we even got to the final court appearance with Boss, but we. You were dealing. You were going to schools and talking to youth groups and trying to help others understand the importance of. Of what happened and. And how it could have been prevented.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, we believe. I mean, this story is a story that we feel like can help others. I mean, we want Lucia's life to be carried on. We want her legacy to be carried on. And we feel that telling her story is the best way to do that. We think telling her story can save people from drinking and driving, can save people just for. I mean, we all suffer. We all suffer from something. Right? We've all had our worst day, the worst moment of our lives. And the best thing that we can do in those moments is to share that and to share it with others and to connect with one another in our pain and in our suffering. And so we feel that talking to high schoolers, teenagers, is the best demographic, really, to talk with, because they're at the point in their lives where they think they're invincible. I know when I was a teenager, I thought I was invincible and being able to kind of let them know, hey, freak accidents do happen, and it happens in just a split second. So just be conscious of the choices that you're making and also any. Any pain or suffering that you feel as a. As a child, like, there are healthy ways to cope with it, and we believe the best way is through faith and sharing it with others.

[B]

And it's another important point we feel like with this age demographic is that, you know, one mistake doesn't define you and that everybody is redeemable. And it's the choices you make after a bad decision that are really going to identify who you are. And so, like, to. To work on, you know, it's okay to make a mistake and then. But try to move forward from. To not make the same mistakes over and over and to better yourself after each of those, I think, was a. Is an important thing. You know, like Terry, he made the worst decision probably of his life. I'm. I'm not going to speak for him, but I would assume that might be how he feels. And it's really from here that, you know, he can decide the rest of his life. And so we give that example in our speeches.

[A]

One of you, I think, said something to the effect of, we can hate the sin, but love the sinner.

[C]

Through much prayer in my own life experiences, I feel as though Christ and our blessed Mother have granted me the grace and wisdom to be able to separate the sin from the sinner, to be able to hate the sin, but love the sinner. And, Terry, while I absolutely hate the sin you committed, I love you as a child of God and as a fellow child of God and sinner. Yeah, that was. That was in our impact statement. And that is something that. It's taken a lot of prayer to get to that point. And I think one thing to. To know is forgiveness. Forgiveness is a daily choice. It is something that we have to choose every single day and multiple moments in a day. Like, if I'm out, for me, specifically, every time that I am out at a restaurant and I see a dad with his young daughter, or if I'm at, like, a grocery store and I just see a young family, and I think of, man, that's such a beautiful family, and how I had that, and now I. Now it's gone. It's in those moments that I have to make the conscious choice to forgive. But I also know, like, through prayer and I guess just through the wisdom that God has granted us that, like, the choice that Terry made, it doesn't make him a bad person. And it's a choice that we have all. And we've all sinned. We've all done bad things in our lives. And the, you know, Lucia being killed, that's the result of evil as a result of sin. And we can hate the sin, but, yes, we are called to love all, like, to love everyone, because Christ loves us all. Right? And so we're supposed to emulate that love.

[A]

Well, you're. You know, as you went through this experience, like, one thing I wanted to say was, like, when you were going through this, you were not obviously in, you know, interacting with Terry Boss, but you were hearing how he was handling this. Did you feel like he was showing remorse? Through this past year, I do remember hearing this bite of Terry in court. It stuck with me.

[B]

Every morning, seeing her face, it brings me to these prayers to reminded me what set up the. I can't even imagine the pain that I brought you forward to, but I wouldn't know how to do that if it hadn't to one of my kids. You know, it did cross our mind. We were hoping he was remorseful for his actions. You know, you can never know how someone feels, because you're right, we did not have any direct contact with him until such sentencing. And, you know, we had heard some things where I think on a phone call on his initial arrest, he was maybe speaking of some remorse. So that may just feel a little bit better. But, you know, there's not a whole lot of contact with him up until that point, including, you know, the prosecution doesn't have direct contact with him either.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so that was really the only bit of evidence we had about him being remorseful. And so we held onto that for hope that he was. I know there was some things written in his written impact towards the end that, you know, made us feel maybe like he was a little ungrateful, but.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Nothing that made it seem like he was completely unremorseful.

[A]

Well, I. I saw. And tell me if I'm mistaken, but you were at one of these youth groups that you were speaking to, and his grandchildren were there. This was before the sentencing, am I right?

[C]

It was, yeah.

[B]

I mean, what.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

Just a fluke situation where the church. The youth group had no idea that they were his granddaughters. And we had just switched parishes to a parish closer to our home. And that Monday, we were just filling up the paperwork and kind of telling our story. We had just done the one at a local high school, so they kind of knew who we were. And, yeah, they just were saying, oh, this is great. Our youth group leader's here right now. Do you want to talk to her? So we spoke with her, and then she literally said, can you come this Wednesday? So it's only two days later. Yeah. That she's asking us to come speak to their youth group. And so we did, and we just did our normal slide deck. And, you know, we didn't think anything of it, really, when two girls went running out when we got to the point of the accident, because it is something that's hard to hear. So we just thought, oh, this is. This is tough for them to hear. And thankfully, the youth group leader ran out after them to help support them. And it wasn't really until after words that the youth group leader called us and kind of told us what had happened, that, you know, that happened to be Terry's two granddaughters. And just the impact that they had on us is honestly Remarkable for us. It was another moment and sign for us, because I know we said in. I think, Matthew, you said it in your statement. You know, one of them was saying, you know, he's a really good guy. And then the other one so profoundly said, no, I think, I think God wanted us here to hear this today. And we just thought that that was so profound for such a young teenage girl to have that much wisdom and strength with God to say something like that. It really changed our hearts and made us realize too that, you know, we're not the only ones suffering because of what happened on April 26th. There's a whole other family that is also going through pain and suffering.

[A]

And you never ever would have had that interaction if you hadn't chosen to take the path you did, which was to inform and to educate other kids about the dangers of what was happening. But did they know that their grandfather had been in this accident?

[C]

We don't know exactly. Yeah, they've been told or anything like that. With the youth, with the youth leader, I told us was that when she had a conversation with their. With the two girls mother, just that she thought it was a good thing for them to hear our talk because they had not been told the full truth of what happened.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

So that's really all the details that we know. I mean, we can guess kind of what was told or whatnot. But yeah, we. We're not entirely sure. But to reiterate what Rebecca said or just kind of to touch on that is that, see having that opportunity to meet the two granddaughters and to see the response to it, it really helped kind of give us comfort too, that extending the plea deal that we did of only 13 and a half years was the right call. Because, I mean, it was something that we wanted to show mercy. We wanted to try and strike this balance between justice and mercy. And so seeing them and. And it was something that when we kept praying on, you know, what is merciful, what is justice? And how do we. How do we balance the two? We kept thinking about and taking into account the fact that he's 57 years old. If he does 13 and a half years, he'll get out at 70, which will allow him to. To spend and kind of rekindle his relationships with his grandchildren. And that was a thought that just continuously came to us. And we didn't know if he had grandkids. And so for us to then offer that plea deal and then get to meet his grandkids, it's kind of a full circle moment for Us.

[B]

Because it came in that order. We. We prayed that we offered the plea, and then we met the grandchildren.

[C]

Correct? Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

So you offered the plea. So you. So you. It was kind of like a sign that. That what you were doing was the right thing. Right. Can. Just. So that our viewers understand this deal that was struck, which is just the ultimate. I'm sure it's so hard for so many people to even wrap their heads around how you could have been so graceful in this moment. But, yes, you. You went to the prosecutors and said, hold up, this guy could be in jail for the rest of his life. Right. In prison for the next 30 years. But that's not what happened. But the only reason that didn't happen is because of. Of your. Of. Of you. Of you both. Can you. Can you explain to us a little bit what that meant?

[C]

Yeah. So from the very moment the accident happened, in the Catholic faith, the weekend after Easter is always Divine Mercy Weekend. And Divine Mercy Weekend is where we celebrate in the church Christ's un unfathomable and never ending love and mercy and his forgiveness for all of us. And so immediately having recognized that Lucille was killed on Divine Mercy Weekend, also recognizing, you know, five days, six days before the accident, I prayed, lord, let us suffer, because it's through this suffering that we become intimately close to you. It just seems so clear to us that God is allowing this to happen for us to share a message of love, mercy, and forgiveness. And so we went to the prosecution, we talked with the prosecution. Thirteen and a half years. That was the minimum requirement for the murder, second degree charge. And we do live in a society. Society has laws. There has to be justice. Right. And so there has to be consequences for the actions that we take. But we just felt that through prayer that that was what was a good balance between that justice and mercy.

[A]

And how did the prosecutors react when you said that?

[B]

They have been great. I mean, they really have been. They were so respectful for anything that we wanted as the victims of Lucia's passing. They ultimately were whatever we wanted, they were going to do. And so they were so great about that. So when they were a little shocked when we said we wanted to do the lowest. So he was looking at a range between 13 and a half to life in prison. And they were. Had they gone to trial, they were going to ask above guidelines. So they were going to ask for more than 30 years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And with. With that being the fact that they had so much evidence against him that they really felt like it was a. What did they Say it was a. Out of the park or something. I don't know what the expression is. But they, they knew it would have been easy for them to get.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think maybe not disappointed, but they were just shocked maybe by our decision and. But they didn't bat an eye on it. They said, whatever you want, we'll do it. And so they were really great and respectful to us and they didn't question us. They didn't second guess us. They didn't say, hey, think about this. And they immediately went from that moment and offered the plea deal.

[A]

I mean, basically you saved another life, right? I mean, his life that was. I mean, if you see going to prison as sort of the end for a lot of people, that is in a way that you're able to. And who knows how it affects his family as well. But you know, at the sentencing, I think he. He basically said that not only was he very emotional in that sentencing, that he was like having nightmares to some degree. What was it like to have to listen to the pain that he had gone through after this? Or do you feel like that even registered at that point?

[B]

I don't know. I think it definitely registered it. I think it helped us. It was more of like a sigh of relief that he was remorseful because, you know, how we touched on earlier, we weren't 100 sure if he was or wasn't. And there's no way to know. It would never have changed our decision to forgive. But I think it was nice to see that he was remorseful because for us that meant that his soul was unsalvageable. Like he. If he takes accountability and he moves forward and asks for forgiveness, then his soul can be saved. And so it was a bit of a relief for us to hear that, you know, this might not be, like you said, the end of this life and that it is hope for hopeful for him.

[A]

Well, and you know, I think I've seen some crazy things, you know, as a reporter as far as, you know, in situations. I was here in Charleston, I'm based in Charleston. So at when the Emanuel church, Mother Emanuel church shooting happened, one of the first things that happened at that bond hearing was that family members came forward and immediately during the bond hearing had said, we forgive Dylann Roof for what he has done to our families.

[B]

I just want everyone to know to you, I forgive you. You took something very precious away from me. I will never talk to her ever again. I will never be able to hold her again. But I forgive you and have mercy on Your soul, you hurt me.

[A]

And it was really hard for people to understand that, but it was not. You know, I hear this sometimes in the world of forgiveness. It's not about them. It's about being able to release some of that pain and anger and horrible feeling in yourself. So maybe that's where I hope that, that forgiveness helped you too.

[C]

It absolutely did. And I, I, I'll share this too. Is there, there were, were points where like, forgiveness was very hard. Right. And there is specifically in, in December, like a two or three week period where I was really struggling with, with forgiveness. And it was through again through prayer. I was praying the rosary and I was kind of in my prayers with the rosary, talking to the Blessed Mother and said, mary, when you were standing at the foot of the cross and you saw your son naked, tortured, body ripped to shreds, and he's struggling to breathe, he's at his last breath. And then you look over and you see the Roman guards who caused your son so much pain, and they're laughing and mocking him. Like, was your heart filled with anger? Did you want vengeance? Like what was going through your mind at that point? And almost immediately kind of this wisdom came to me that, you know, at no point through the entire story of the Passion that Christ or anyone at any point mention anything about justice, vengeance, anything along those lines. It was all about Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And it was kind of like in that it was a very pivotal moment for me because it really was in that moment this, this realization that regardless of anything else, like, we have to forgive, we have to let it go. Yeah, you have to give it up from your heart and you just have to be able to forgive. And it's hard, but it's something that can be done through prayer.

[B]

So Matthew and I actually gave Lucy a zoology and we even said it there that we pray for a day where we can look him in the face and tell him we forgive him. So we knew almost instantly that this was going to be the journey we wanted to, to go down, that we wanted a path of forgiveness. And you know, when we finally came to that realization and felt wholeheartedly that we forgive him, he really gave a peace in our heart. And then we knew that that opened the opportunity to revive his soul. So we constantly say that, that, like how you had mentioned that it's freeing for the forgiver as well, that, you know, when we forgave a bring a peace in our heart. Yeah, I think so that it would revive his soul as well, and you've

[A]

got this incredible legacy with the foundation now, like, you've got you. This is. This is full steam ahead, right? The Lucia Iris Foundation.

[C]

Yeah, we. We're very excited about it. It's. We want to do a couple things with it. We want to provide financial assistance for, like, funeral costs for families that lose a child, as well as pay for, like, Christian counseling agencies to help and then also speak and share Lucia's story. I mean, we. Just because Lucia is gone doesn't mean that our love for her is gone. Right? And so all of the love that we still have for Lucia, we're pouring into. Into this foundation, and we're really wanting it to. To grow so that we can help as many families that need help, and also for us to be able to share Lucia's story with as many people don't want to hear it.

[A]

You know, Lucia. I know. You know, when people pass, they don't go, do they? They don't leave us. They stay with us. Do you feel like she's guiding you?

[B]

We definitely feel like she sends us signs, especially. It seems like in our weakest of moments, you know, whether it be through rainbows or just the little signs, you know, our babies laugh in church when it's like we're just randomly thinking about how much we miss her. And, you know, we. We see her even in Kenneth. And so, yeah, we do. And, you know, they never leave your heart. They're constantly with us. And her especially, I feel, is just embedded in both of our hearts. And, you know, I don't think there will ever be a day that goes by that we don't think of her and miss her, but just are grateful for the nine months we did get with her.

[C]

Every night I pray, like, lord, let us see her in our dreams. Right? And not all. It doesn't always happen, but the other day, March 12th, was my birthday. And, like, that night, I had two different trains where she was in the dreams, and one was me giving her the biggest hug and, like, kissing her little cheeks. And then the second one was hearing her say, I love you. And I woke up and just feeling amazing and just holding on to, like, that feeling of just so much joy and happiness in my heart just from being able to see her and hear her in my dream. And so you're right. They don't go. And that is something that, you know, doesn't happen every night, but when it does happen, that's what makes it so special that it doesn't happen every night.

[A]

You are amazing. You're amazing parents. You both have just been a joy to talk to. Happy tears, you know, because I know that it's just so much inspiration. So here's to a beautiful Easter for your family. And thank you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Thank you for letting us share her story.

[B]

It's great to meet you.

[A]

You know, sometimes there's almost no words, no words for the tragedy, no words for the pain. But if I had to choose a word for this story, Grace. And it's a beautiful way for this family to honor the memory of their little girl, Lucia Iris Seyfried. I encourage you to learn more about the Lucia Iris foundation and we'll link it below. And if you found this story as inspiring as I did, I hope you can share it with a friend who may be going through a difficult time like and subscribe for more interviews like this one. And please be sure to give us a five star review on audio platforms. It will go a long way for others to be able to find our episodes and we'll see you next time on Crimly Obsessed.