Facts vs Rage: Can Lindsay Clancy's Jury Stay Unbiased?

Summary

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Criminally Obsessed – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Facts vs Rage: Can Lindsay Clancy’s Jury Stay Unbiased?

Date: August 3, 2026
Host: Anne Emerson
Featured Guest: Susan Constantine, veteran jury consultant

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Overview

This gripping episode of Criminally Obsessed delves into the Lindsay Clancy trial, focusing on the immense emotional and psychological challenges facing jurors. Host Anne Emerson and jury consultant Susan Constantine unpack the tension between factual analysis and overwhelming emotional reaction in extreme cases, like the deaths of Lindsay Clancy’s three children. Drawing parallels to the Andrea Yates trial and offering a behind-the-scenes look at the jury experience, this episode explores whether unbiased deliberation is even possible when cases are marked by horror, rage, and trauma.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Burden of the Lindsay Clancy Jury

• The challenge for jurors is not just the technical analysis of evidence, but weathering raw, traumatizing testimony and evidence.
  • Judge Sullivan (00:34): “You can't find facts or base your decision on sympathy, anger, passion or prejudice or pity for or against either side.”
• The jury must decide between life in prison or committal to a mental health facility; either option carries immense weight (02:18).

Emotional Toll and Trauma on Jurors

• Susan Constantine:
  • On juror emotions (01:15): “I think they have a flood of emotions from horror… they’re visualizing those children… so… rage. There is a lot of emotions going on here.”
  • On juror impact (04:10): “They have the weight completely on their shoulders… there’s a lot of pressure, right? A lot of emotional, psychological pressure… There is juror fatigue, there’s juror stress… They’re actually seeing the evidence. No one is prepared for that… It’s the most traumatic thing they’ll ever see and they will never unsee, ever, for the rest of their life.”
• The jury is made up of “everyday people,” not hardened to trauma, unlike trained professionals (04:38).

Juror Selection & Composition

• The pool comprises 12 women and 6 men, many of whom are parents – a critical dynamic (03:32).
  • Women can be even tougher on female defendants than men, complicating assumptions about empathy (03:45).
• High attrition is expected due to overwhelming trauma; hence a large number of alternates (05:43).
  • “People are going to pull out. That's going to be overwhelming. You know, they may be breaking down, they may be crying a lot through it, which would have to remove them because it's overwhelming, traumatizing.” (05:43)

The Power of Graphic, Physical Evidence

• Prosecutor’s strategy emphasizes real, tactile evidence (06:20):
  • Exercise bands shown in court; their presence produces a “visceral” reaction.
    • Susan Constantine (07:12): “I don’t know about you, but I actually can feel it in my throat… it’s visceral. You’re seeing those ropes. They’re rubber, right… thick… metal hook… handle... it’s such a horror story. Shut the door. Because I can’t even see beyond the door. That’s what she’s doing, right? Self-protection.”
  • Jurors observe Lindsay Clancy’s body language—her guarded demeanor, gripping her attorney’s hand—further heightening emotional tension (08:14).

The Baby Clothes as Evidence

• Physical evidence like children’s pajamas serves as a powerful emotional cue:
  • Susan Constantine (10:50): “The jurors are looking at… those are the little pajamas that they had when they found the children, but they’re also looking at the size… their little personality’s built into… the innocence and the tininess of them… They can visualize their kids and… grandkids and those little pajamas.”
  • Tactile evidence (“fabric has a psychological connection”) is more impactful than photographs (12:22).

First Responders, 911 Tape, and the Weight of Testimony

• Playback of 911 calls and first responder testimony delivers overwhelming emotional impact (13:17).
  • First responders show “psychophysiological response”—heavy breathing, clearing voices—despite their training (13:17).
• Jurors are not prepped or coached for this trauma; they are isolated, and even calling a therapist would require judicial approval (14:46).
• The 911 call itself was so intense it moved even the courtroom to tears.
  • Host (16:40): “…that was the worst 911 call they've ever heard, which was Patrick Clancy.”

The Legal Challenge: Setting Emotion Aside

• Judge's repeated instructions to jurors stress separation of emotion and fact:
  • Judge Sullivan (18:36): “As jurors who have taken an oath to follow the law, I'm instructing you that the law says you must separate any emotional reaction. You must not be influenced in any way by the unpleasant nature of some of the evidence.”
• The struggle is real:
  • Susan Constantine (19:08): “You gotta tell yourself, you gotta do it. …They've got to look at all the evidence, separate their emotions… some are having a hard time. You're going to have other ones that are following exactly the judge's instructions. And then you're going to have some support within that jury pool to help the others come along and look at this objectively and just through the scientific and the research and the evidence.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Juror Experience

• “This is not like a drug dealer killing another drug dealer… This is totally different… These are everyday people hearing this horrible stuff… They will never unsee, ever for the rest of their life.”
  —Susan Constantine, 04:10

On Physical Evidence

• “I actually can feel it in my throat… it’s visceral. …It’s like a horror story. Shut the door. Because I can’t even see beyond the door. That’s what she’s doing, right? Self-protection.”
  —Susan Constantine, 07:12

On Gender Dynamics

• “Women tend to be more emotional, more impacted by those types of things. But also… women are tougher on women than men are.”
  —Susan Constantine, 03:45

On Emotional Regulation

• “You gotta tell yourself, you gotta do it… separate their emotions from the… just look at the evidence.”
  —Susan Constantine, 19:08

On The Jury’s Isolation

• “There is no preparation. …They can't talk to their husband about it. They can't talk to their kids about it… There’s no way that… a juror can come home and [not] see the weight of it on their face and in their body. They're gonna be… overwhelmed and they can't talk about it.” —Susan Constantine, 14:46

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Timeline of Key Segments

• [00:34] Judge Sullivan instructs the jury on separating emotion from fact
• [01:15] Susan Constantine describes juror emotional overload
• [03:32] Jury makeup and gender dynamics discussed
• [04:10] Impact of trauma on jurors and their lack of preparation
• [05:43] Expectations of juror attrition and large alternate pool
• [06:38] Courtroom audio: exercise bands and their visual/emotional impact
• [10:50] Baby clothes as powerful evidence
• [13:17] First responders’ emotional testimony and its effect
• [14:46] No emotional coaching for jurors; complete isolation
• [16:40] The 911 call and its overwhelming effect in court
• [18:36] Judge’s specific instructions to exclude emotion from deliberation
• [19:08] Susan Constantine on the near-impossibility—but necessity—of suppressing emotion

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Conclusion

This episode provides a nuanced, empathetic exploration of the gut-wrenching reality facing jurors in the Lindsay Clancy trial: Can anyone truly remain unbiased in the face of such devastating evidence? The conversation moves beyond courtroom strategy to the very human cost of justice—a cost felt by victims, families, and, in cases like this, everyone in the jury box. As the expert battle over Lindsay Clancy’s mental state begins, the emotional and ethical dilemmas for jurors only deepen.

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Transcript

[Host/Interviewer]

As we head into week two of the Lindsay Clancy trial, I have a question for you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Could you be one of the jurors? Could you sit through weeks of heartbreaking testimony in a case like this where the first responders even break down and

[Host/Interviewer]

start crying on the stand?

[Courtroom Audio/911 Call Playback]

Did you do anything to assist the medics at that time?

[Narrator/Reporter]

I.

[Judge Sullivan]

Excuse me.

[Susan Constantine]

I asked if they needed any equipment.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Lindsey Clancy is accused in the deaths of her three small children. The judge says right now it's the job of the jurors to look at all of the evidence. Here's Judge Sullivan.

[Judge Sullivan]

You can't find facts or base your decision on sympathy, anger, passion or prejudice or pity for or against either side.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But come on, they've already heard the dad, Patrick Clancy, screaming in terror on that 911 call when he finds his children. They've seen evidence from inside that home, including the baby's pajamas and exercise bands that investigators say Lindsey Clancy used as weapons. In just a few minutes, I'm going to play each one of those moments and veteran jury consultant Susan Constantine is going to give us her reaction. She says cases like these push jurors to their limits.

[Susan Constantine]

I think they have a flood of emotions from horror. I think they're visualizing those children, what that must have been like, so. And then rage, you know, like rage. So there is a, a lot of emotions going on here.

[Narrator/Reporter]

How do you set aside your horror and decide a case based only on the law? Susan Constantine has spent years studying jurors in the most devastating trials in America. She was at the Casey Anthony trial and she worked for the jury consulting firm that picked the jury for the Andrea Yates retrial. Like Clancy, Yates was charged in the

[Host/Interviewer]

of her children and she pleaded not

[Narrator/Reporter]

guilty by reason of insanity. How do you find jurors who can handle something like this?

[Susan Constantine]

People are going to pull out. That's going to be overwhelming. You know, they may be breaking down, they may be crying a lot through it, which was would have to remove them because it's overwhelming, traumatizing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Let's be clear.

[Host/Interviewer]

When this trial is over, this jury

[Narrator/Reporter]

will have to decide Lindsay Clancy's fate. She could face life in prison if she's convicted of first degree murder or if she's found not guilty by reason of insanity. She could spend the rest of her life in a mental health facility. Be sure to like subscribe and turn on your notifications. We'll be updating this story now. Let's get into it. Susan Constantine, thank you so much for joining me. It is so great to have you

[Host/Interviewer]

back as we talk about the Lindsay Clancy trial and. And sort of what we're dealing with here.

[Susan Constantine]

Thank you so much for inviting me.

[Host/Interviewer]

Tell me about your connection to the Andrea Yates trial back in 2002.

[Susan Constantine]

So my colleague was the one that was a jury consultant in the retrial for reasons of insanity. I think that there's a lot of similarities between the cases. And so I did a lot of research yesterday and also this morning to look at the jury pool. And what is the difference between then and now?

[Host/Interviewer]

How does this compare to what we

[Narrator/Reporter]

saw in Andrea Yates?

[Host/Interviewer]

Because the case, as far as looking at postpartum psychosis is and looking at a defense of insanity, are very similar.

[Susan Constantine]

Today we're looking at this jury pool. There are 12 women and six men. So why is this important? You know, gender is a big piece of it, right? Because a lot of the people that are beyond the jury, that are on the jury are parents, both men and women. But as you know, women tend to be more emotional, more impacted by those types of things. But also, keep in mind that a lot of times people don't realize that women are tougher on women than men are.

[Host/Interviewer]

If you've never been on a jury like this, can you tell our viewers what it. What it's like for this jury right now?

[Susan Constantine]

Well, first of all, they have the weight completely on their shoulders, right? There's a big weight that's there because they. What they do, so they render verdict that sticks. So there's a lot of pressure, right? A lot of emotional. There's a lot of psychological pressure there. A juror, they're not immune to the impact of what they're seeing and what they're hearing. So there is juror fatigue, there's juror stress. They could have anxiety, right? All of that is what a juror is going to feel like, given the specifics of this case. This is not like a drug dealer killing another drug dealer, okay? Lack of empathy, lack of compassion. You guys probably, you know, created the situation. This is totally different. So I think that it's really important for people to really understand what a juror goes through. These are everyday people, just like you and I, everyday people hearing this horrible stuff. And not only that, they're actually seeing it, right? So they're. They're actually seeing the evidence. No one is prepared for that, you know, unless they're in combat and they were from Afghanistan, where they've seen a lot of trauma. This is not them. This is an everyday person experiencing what they see as the most traumatic thing they'll ever see and they will never unsee, ever for the rest of their life.

[Host/Interviewer]

The makeup is 12 women and six men. And the jurors don't know who the deciding 12 will be. It is a large alternate pool, I would think, for that reason. Right, yeah.

[Susan Constantine]

Because people are going to pull out. That's going to be overwhelming. You know, they may be breaking down, they may be crying a lot through it, which was. Would have to remove them because it's overwhelming, traumatizing. So we, that's why you've got such a large pool, because you are going to have some follow ups. There's just no, no doubt. It's not just male or female. There's multiple things that you have to look at in their background, their experiences, their education, their occupation. You know, have they had any other types of traumas in their life?

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, I'm going to play a snippet from the Lindsay Clancy trial now. The. It's week one and, and the prosecutor takes out the actual exercise bands that Clancy used in the deaths of her three children. And I'm going to pull this up right now so we can look at this together.

[Courtroom Audio/911 Call Playback]

Yellow exercise band found with Dawson. Black exercise bands found with Cora. And then the blue exercise band found with Cowan.

[Susan Constantine]

I think it, what it does is it causes us all to pause. Right. I mean, I mean, I don't know about you, but I actually can feel it in my throat. Like, it's just, like it's, it's right here. It's visceral. You're seeing those ropes. They're rubber, right. They're kind of thick. They've got a. They've got a metal hook on it. They've got also a handle on it. And you see her, right? She's blocking through her face.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. She's got, she's not even. You can't see her, but you can see her. You can see her actually her shoulders going up and down. And we're saying she, we're talking about Lindsay Clancy. You can see.

[Susan Constantine]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Are they watching her when this is happening, do you think? Looking for her reaction?

[Susan Constantine]

I think they're probably darting their eyes back and forth. They're looking at. Seeing how she's looking at it, seeing how she respond.

[Host/Interviewer]

Looking at.

[Susan Constantine]

Seeing how she's responding and that. She can't even look at it. She's like detached, devoid of even any attachment to it. Any of the breathing up and down is that high in the chest breathing, you know, I mean, and then the face blocking the hair, blocking all that is like, it's like, it's such a. It's like a horror story. Shut the door. Because I can't even see beyond the door. That's what she's doing, right? Self protection. And then she's grasping her attorney's hand. Does the jury. I don't know where the jury is positioned to be able to see that.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Susan Constantine]

See that. But she has her hand over his hand. He's not holding her hand for support. She's holding his hand for support. And it's clenched. I mean, it's almost like white knuckling it. So it's intense. Right. So I look at how is. There's transference of energy. Like she's going through this emotional point and she's transferring that energy by gripping his hand. And the jury has seen it. If you were on the jury poll, you. You see that after about the first one, maybe the second you are doing a glance back and forth.

[Host/Interviewer]

How are they coping with this right now, do you think, like your, your jury, what it. What are the coping mechanisms going on?

[Susan Constantine]

I think they have a flood of emotions from horror. I think they're visualizing those children, what that must have been like, so. And then rage, you know, like rage. So there is a. A lot of emotions going on here. And that's why this is such an emotional case. You know, there's no way of getting around it. The. The state has to prove. Has to O. Has to be so overwhelming with the evidence of premeditation that she was not in psychosis. She knew what she was doing. Even though maybe. And prove that she, you know, she harmed herself out of guilt. Right. Guilt, like figure.

[Host/Interviewer]

Realized what she was doing and then had to.

[Susan Constantine]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

And then, and then did what she did. How do you, how do you think we should be looking, you know, as we're watching this? Because it's. It is. It's incredibly triggering. It's incredibly traumatizing.

[Susan Constantine]

We have to set, as hard as it is, we have to set, even as a juror, set it aside. Set it aside and let the evidence prove the case or disprove it. That's what you have to do. You have to look at this thing as objective. And when I'm analyzing, just so you know, because I, you know, analyze a lot of cases and how I'm able to do it so effectively. And I think these jurors have to do it too. You have to remove yourself from it and just follow the clues, follow the evidence and let the objective data tell the story.

[Host/Interviewer]

I want to show another part. This is when the prosecutor brought out the. The clothes that the children were wearing that.

[Courtroom Audio/911 Call Playback]

That night, Helen's pajamas.

[Susan Constantine]

So, you know, those jurors are looking at, of course, those are the little pajamas that they had when they found the children, but they're also looking at the size of the clothing. Right. And the things they love little kids, like. So it's kind of like their little personality. It's kind of built into the little outfits of their little pajamas that they're wearing. So when we look at, you know, the innocence and the tininess of them that they were unable to protect themselves. Right. And so I think for the jurors, everybody, especially even men and women, not. It's not really a gender issue. They can visualize their kids and they can visualize their grandkids and those little pajamas. And that is a visual part of evidence. I, you know, I call it evidence demeanor. But I will share with you over time, as they hear the evidence, the jurors hear the evidence, it's not that they become immune to it, but they resolve. There's a resolve about it because then they become more focused. So I just want to let you know it's not unusual that you're going to. You're going to hit them with high emotion at the very beginning. And then when you start piling on all the evidence, there is a shift, psychological, mental shift, to where I'm more focused.

[Host/Interviewer]

And that brings me to why the prosecution feels it's necessary to bring out the actual physical, like the baby clothes, as opposed to just showing a picture. Does it make a. I mean, to me, it's a. It's a much larger impact. But can you explain to us, like, why that is?

[Susan Constantine]

Well, it's. When you think about fabric touching it and it's, you know, it's movable. You know, it's actually has, you know, fabric has a psychological connection. Right. So if you saw a picture, it's too static, it's unemotional, it doesn't move.

[Host/Interviewer]

The testimony that's coming in right now with the first responders who were on the scene, and we already went through the hellaciousness of, of the father of Patrick Clancy. But, you know, the first responders, you can see them literally physically, they're breathing heavily, they're trying to. He's clearing his voice. These are big guys, New England guys who are trained for this, and you can feel the, the pain of what they're saying. I. I would only imagine that this is crushing for the defense.

[Susan Constantine]

Yeah. And so what we're looking at is the channel, a channel of our communication, which is psychophysiological response. Right. That psychophysiological response is the breathing. It's the golfing, it's the licking of the lips, it's the heavy, maybe a sigh, and you could see the chest moving up and higher up. Right. The more anxiety. So that's pretty intense stuff. Right. So what they're doing is they're trying to contain it, which actually exacerbates it. But. But a lot of law enforcement and first responders are taught a breathing technique, and I'm sure that they're probably doing this. It's actually called our four corner. It's a breathing technique to where they breathe in so many times and then they exhale so that they can keep their emotions down so they don't go into a panic. And that is something that they're taught. I mean, one of my really good friends who was actually a sniper and yeah, he was a. Worked for the FBI, so he taught me how to shoot and how you had to do it from a as. From a sniper, how you actually had to control and contain your emotion through breathing. So that's what we're seeing.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, and so now, Susan, the jury's not getting any of that, right? Do they just get, like, blindsided? Is there any kind of preparation for that juror to be able to look at a picture of these graphic images of the children that were being. That are being described to us right now?

[Susan Constantine]

No, there is no coaching. You can tell verbally, someone, something the jury is at. You know, first of all, when they're reselected, when they're already being summoned, they're not told that yet. You know, they're not given that they're just now learning about. They're just being summoned. But they haven't learned everything about the case. The judge is the one who gave the instructions. And the only time they hear the instructions is that day when they're already selected. So there is no preparation. And they also. They can't talk to one another about it. They can't talk to their husband about it. They can't talk to their kids about it. You know, I always have a challenge with that one. It's such a high profile case like that because, you know, there's no way that they. A juror can't come home and see the weight of it on their face and in their body. They're gonna be. They're gonna be just like overwhelmed and they can't talk about it. I mean, they're not supposed to talk about it?

[Narrator/Reporter]

No.

[Host/Interviewer]

They're not allowed to look at anything. They can't talk about it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

They can't.

[Host/Interviewer]

I wonder if they can call their therapist. I mean, if they have a therapist. I wonder if they're calling their therapist to say, hey, look, this is, this sucks.

[Susan Constantine]

I don't know what the rule is on that one. I've never experienced that before. They would have to have clearance by the judge in order for them to do that. They can't pick up the phone and call the therapist because that therapist could leak information.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, and you know, going to the 911 call in this case, the juror, the, the judge did decide that we would not be, you know, that would not be in evidence that we can hear that. It's not being live streamed. We're not hearing it. Anybody in that courtroom heard that 911 call. They saw the jurors crying during that 911 call. They heard how horrific it was. I mean, I am being told by the people that were in that room that was one of the. That was the worst 911 call they've ever heard, which was Patrick Clancy.

[Susan Constantine]

That's why the state wanted it. Right?

[Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Susan Constantine]

That's the impact that they wanted. They were walking in through an extra experience in almost in real time. And it is, you know, that probably the tonality, the, the, the, the pitch, the. The franticness. We didn't hear it, but I'm assuming that's what was happening. What was what dad saw and the shock and awe.

[Host/Interviewer]

The prosecution no doubt is making sure they know exactly what it felt like that night from the first responders from Patrick clancy, from the 91 1, the feeling, the clothes to the fact that they're going to be walking through that house. They're going on a tour of that house. There is no way they're not going to be able to put themselves in the place of what happened that evening.

[Susan Constantine]

It was intentional because actually that's what happened and it shouldn't have been suppressed. So it is what happened. It is the whole Drew and nothing but the truth.

[Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Susan Constantine]

It is what the experience was. So they should be able to hear what the on one calls. They should be able to see the little clothing of the little kids. You know, in, in real, in real, like actually seeing the clothing. They need to look at Lindsay as she's sitting over there and blocking herself. And you know, I'm sure that she actually is dealing with her own trauma, in our own emotions. But in as overwhelming to actually put yourself back to that place. Hearing it in real time and then hearing the crying and everybody else in the background and sniffling and like, you know, all of that is going to be the shame and the guilt and all of that. I mean, it's, it's a doozy of a case.

[Host/Interviewer]

It's unbelievable. I've got here, and I wanted to play this for you.

[Susan Constantine]

Your honor, we would ask that the

[Courtroom Audio/911 Call Playback]

911 call be played.

[Judge Sullivan]

As jurors who have taken an oath to follow the law, I'm instructing you that the law says you must separate any emotional reaction. You must not be influenced in any way by the unpleasant nature of some of the evidence.

[Host/Interviewer]

The judge was very specific. He was like, you need to be able to separate out your emotions from what's going on in that courtroom right now.

[Narrator/Reporter]

How do you do that, Susan?

[Host/Interviewer]

I mean, that's a. That's a tall order.

[Susan Constantine]

You gotta tell yourself, you gotta do it. You gotta tell yourself, I have to set this aside and, and they have to go to business. I mean, they've got to look at all the evidence, separate their emotions from the. And look at. Just look at the evidence. And you're going to see the great thing about jury deliberations is you're going to have some that are having a hard time. You're going to have other ones that are following exactly the judge's instructions. And then there you're going to have some support within that jury pool to help the others come along and look at this objectively and just through the scientific and the research and the evidence. And so, I mean, he had to state it and put it on record. He had to. He had to instruct. That's part of the jury instructions, right? He had to instruct the jury because he's letting them know ahead of time what they're gonna. What they're gonna deal with. So it. I'm gonna say it's not easy, but it's not impossible.

[Host/Interviewer]

I feel like we're seeing the most emotional part of it right now. I would think that they're gonna have to get into the nitty gritty over that. It's going to be an expert battle next. We're going to just have to see who wins on. On the medical condition of. Of Lindsay Clancy.

[Susan Constantine]

Exact. So what they'll do, they'll bring the emotion in the beginning. They'll start to bring the expert witnesses in, and they're going to tie it up with the emotion. That's what they're going to do. That's what the state's going to do. So they're going to it's, it's, it's like they're sandwiching it in, right? So they're going to bring him back into that emotion again because that's when they're going to go off and do the deliberation. And and then, of course, the defense is going to do the opposite.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Drop a comment below. I want to hear what you're thinking. I've met jurors who have been on some of the most horrific trials, and it has stayed with them their whole life. How do you think these jurors are going to manage this kind of testimony, this kind of evidence? It's going to be something I think is going to stick with them for a long time. And I'd love to hear your thoughts. Be sure to, like, see, subscribe, turn on your notifications because we're going to be updating the Lindsay Clancy case as we go through this trial.