Forensic Psychologist: Why Lindsay Clancy’s Case Should Never Have Gone To Trial

Summary

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Criminally Obsessed — Forensic Psychologist: Why Lindsay Clancy’s Case Should Never Have Gone To Trial

Host: Anne Emerson
Guest: Dr. Leslie Dobson, Forensic Psychologist
Date: August 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the Lindsay Clancy case, dissecting why, from a forensic psychological perspective, it should never have gone to trial. Host Anne Emerson talks with Dr. Leslie Dobson, who explains the complexities of postpartum psychosis, breaks down the courtroom drama, and delivers powerful critiques of both the prosecution and wider systemic failings in mental health and women’s health care. The conversation maintains a compassionate, frank tone and pulls no punches in addressing the legal, medical, and human stakes involved.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Prosecution as "Witch Hunt"

• Dr. Dobson’s Stance: From the outset, Dr. Dobson slams the decision to prosecute as politically and personally motivated, rather than evidence-based.
  • “I think it is a witch hunt for fame. In a sense. There is no win for anyone in this. And if the prosecutor thinks they win by winning, they're horrible people.” (B, 00:11 & 02:38)
• Alternative Path: Dr. Dobson emphasizes that the prosecution could have offered a plea and civil commitment instead, given Clancy’s admission and diagnosis.
  • “She admitted that she did it. She could have just gone back to the state hospital she's in and stayed there. And this dog and pony show is making me livid.” (B, 02:12)

Postpartum Psychosis Explained

• Definition: Dr. Dobson classifies it as a psychiatric emergency: an immediate, severe break with reality following birth, distinct from longer, chronic conditions like schizophrenia.
  • “You’re like an open bleeding wound. And if you don't get care immediately, you are going to end your life or end someone else's life.” (B, 04:21)
• Medical Education Gaps: Shocking deficiency in physician training—postpartum psychosis is not mandatory curriculum in most psychiatry programs.
  • “Most psychiatry schools, you don't have to learn about postpartum.” (B, 04:54)
• Hormonal Chaos Post-Birth: She outlines the biological underpinnings—placental loss triggers neurochemical upheaval, which can rapidly spiral out of control, especially in vulnerable individuals.
  • “The baby comes out, the placenta comes out and the hormones come out … If you have a precursor or anything in your history … anything can trigger postpartum psychosis.” (B, 06:05)

Medical and Systemic Failures

• Medication Mismanagement: Clancy’s long list of prescriptions—over a dozen at the time—is slammed as chaotic and poorly supervised.
  • “It's a mess. What I see is people thought a nurse who was in psychosis was okay to take care of herself, and she was not.” (B, 08:10)
• Insufficient Oversight and Support: Even when Clancy sought help, the system failed her—she checked in and out of treatment with minimal intervention.
  • “She checked herself out, and they let her. And she minimized the severity of her symptoms because she didn't want to lose her kids.” (B, 08:50)

Prevalence and Misconceptions

• How Rare is Postpartum Psychosis?
  The official rate is 1–2 per 1,000 births, which is rare in statistical terms but significant given the birth rate.
  • “It's not rare when it comes to how many babies are born every year.” (B, 09:08)
• Undercounting: Many women hide symptoms due to stigma and fear, leading to underreporting.

Command Hallucinations and Criminal Responsibility

• What are Command Voices?
  Dr. Dobson explains that command hallucinations feel as real as physical instructions—patients may feel literally controlled.
  • “Command hallucinations are often an outside voice that controls you, that is moving you like a puppet … you are going to do whatever you're told because it's the truth to you.” (B, 11:02)
• Anecdote: Dr. Dobson shares a powerful clinical vignette illustrating the compulsive nature of obeying such hallucinations.
  • “He said, the voice told me to snatch your earrings. And I looked at him, and I was like, well, tell the voice. I'll hand them right to you.” (B, 13:43)

Critique of Prosecution’s Arguments

• Disputing Premeditation: The prosecution’s focus on whether Clancy took all her medications is meant to establish premeditation, but Dr. Dobson calls this out as inaccurate.
  • “They're trying to show … an ability for linear premeditation, that she wasn't out of her mind … I think they're failing right now.” (B, 10:07)
• Mocking Mental Illness: The prosecution’s use of dismissive analogies (e.g., “seeing a unicorn in the corner”) is decried as minimizing and ignorant.
  • “For the prosecution to reference seeing a unicorn in the corner … to mock and minimize the severity of mental illness … I think just shot them in the foot.” (B, 21:00)

Journals and Lived Experience

• Cries for Help: Host Anne Emerson reviews Clancy’s journal entries—detailing confusion, guilt, isolation, and hopelessness. Dr. Dobson interprets these as classic cries for help that escalated with lack of support.
  • “What I'm hearing are constant cries for help, a lack of support, and an escalation of the severity of her mental health...” (B, 16:14)
• Absence of Voices in Journals: The lack of direct reporting of hallucinations does not preclude their presence at the crime—psychosis can escalate rapidly and unpredictably.

Insanity and Legal Responsibility

• Criminal Responsibility Debate:
  Dr. Dobson rebuffs the prosecution’s claim that one can be both “insane” and fully criminally responsible.
  • “I do not think she understood the consequences to her actions ... This is not a woman who presents as a blitz serial killer.” (B, 20:18)
• Historical Parallels:
  Risk of regressing to outdated, punitive responses to maternal mental health (e.g., Andrea Yates’ initial conviction).
  • “I think it'll set us back decades … to 2002, where Andrea Yates sat in prison for three and a half years until they overturned it...” (B, 21:32)

Society, Stigma, and the Need for Support

• Dr. Dobson’s Advice:
  Everyone, especially new mothers, should have ongoing mental health support, not just after a crisis.
  • “You don’t have to be ill to see a therapist… Why not build the village while you can?” (B, 21:55)
• Systemic Failing:
  Clancy’s isolation, reluctance to disclose symptoms, and stigma are endemic—and catastrophic in cases like this.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Court trial is theater. They are performing. The experts will not be performing. They will be bringing you information that is sound and truthful.” (B, 07:25)
• “Just because you haven't experienced it and you don't know anyone who's experienced it, doesn't mean it's not so.” (B, 07:25)
• “If she's found guilty, what is this going to do to women's health? … I think it'll set us back decades…” (A & B, 21:26–21:32)
• “Where's the village?” (B, 16:11)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Witch Hunt Allegation and Critique of Prosecution: 00:11–02:12
• Postpartum Psychosis Defined: 04:21–05:30
• Medical Education & System Failures: 05:30–08:43
• Medication Oversight Problems: 07:03–08:50
• Prevalence and Stigma: 09:00–09:57
• Command Hallucinations Explained: 11:02–13:43
• Prosecution’s Case on Medications & Premeditation: 10:03–10:41
• Journal Entries and Lived Experience: 15:15–17:09
• Legal Debate on Insanity Defense: 20:07–21:18
• Societal Impact and Recommendations: 21:26–22:47

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Conclusion

This episode offers a bracing, in-depth critique of the Lindsay Clancy prosecution from a leading forensic psychologist’s perspective. It challenges listeners to consider the medical realities and social failings behind the headlines, while advocating for greater compassion, better mental health infrastructure, and more sophisticated legal approaches for mothers in crisis. Listeners come away with a nuanced understanding of postpartum psychosis and its impact—not just on individuals, but on law, public opinion, and the future of women’s mental health.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone. I'm Ann Emerson, and this is criminally obsessed. Listen to how my guest, forensic psychologist Dr. Leslie Dobson, describes the prosecution of Lindsay Clancy at her trial.

[B]

I think it is a witch hunt for fame. In a sense. There is no win for anyone in this. And if the prosecutor thinks they win by winning, they're horrible people.

[A]

A witch hunt. And here's why. Because Lindsey Clancy's defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis. She's not even denying that investigators tested the evidence correctly. She even said so in court.

[B]

Yes, your honor.

[A]

So the fiercest debate isn't about what happened. It's over whether this case belongs in a courtroom at all. The public still hasn't heard the 911 call. The jury has the. The courtroom has. Some who've heard it described it as one of the most emotionally wrenching moments in a trial they've ever witnessed. And through it all, Clancy's defense maintains she should not be held criminally responsible because she was suffering from documented severe postpartum psychosis. Now, Dr. Leslie argues the prosecutors had another path, but she says they chose the wrong one.

[B]

They could have offered her a plea and civil commitment. She already said she did this.

[A]

Be sure to, like, subscribe and turn on your notifications because I don't want you to miss any of the updates to this trial and all of the cases that we're covering. Now let's get into it. Doctor Leslie, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show. I have been looking at your work as far as from a medical perspective, from a humanity perspective, and I have to say, I'm so. It's so refreshing to see your take on medicine, on women's health, on mental illness. Thank you.

[B]

You're so welcome.

[A]

I want to talk to you about something that I heard you talk about. Dr. Leslie, do you. Do you think that the Lindsay Clancy case should have gone to trial?

[B]

No, absolutely not. I think the prosecution should have offered her a plea deal in the sense of civil commitment. She admitted that she did it. She could have just gone back to the state hospital she's in and stayed there. And this dog and pony show is making me livid.

[A]

Why? Why are they doing this? Why are they doing this? It feels. It feels to me like a witch hunt at this point.

[B]

I think it is a witch hunt for fame, in a sense. I would imagine. Somebody wants to raise, rise up in politics. Somebody wants to be on television. They really like it when their cases are so publicly aired. But there is no win for anyone in this. And if the prosecutor thinks they win by winning, they're horrible people. Right.

[A]

And. Well, I mean, I think that what was shocking to me as I started listening to it was that it, they are setting up very clearly that this was premeditated. This is first degree murder. This is homicide. She went out to kill her children and, and in this, in this horrific manner. And what we're hearing from experts like you, and what I expect to hear from our defense is of course, that, that she's not criminally, that this was postpartum psychosis. Tell me a little bit about your background. Tell me a little bit about where you, you know, your, your field of interest.

[B]

Yeah, so I got into generic psychology. Right. But then I started studying severe mental illness, especially schizophrenia and psychosis. I started working in the Los Angeles County Jail. And that was the most eye opening experience of my life. And now I primarily, I don't do as much criminal now. I do a lot of civil litigation, differentiating the truth from lies, and especially in high profile sexual assault claims and cases.

[A]

I want people to understand from you, Dr. Leslie, what is postpartum psychosis?

[B]

We keep hearing people say over and over, postpartum psychosis is a psychiatric emergency. Now what does that actually mean? It means that you have been thrown into psychosis, hormonally, neurotransmitters in your brain, you're thrown into it. You're like an open bleeding wound. And if you don't get care immediately, you are going to end your life or end someone else's life. So it is not this long standing schizophrenia course. It is immediate and it is serious. And that's why, that's why she needed to be snowed with medications and put in a facility and kept there. But nobody clearly understood what was going on or nobody took the time to actually learn. And this is where it really gets me, is most psychiatry schools, you don't have to learn about postpartum. They don't educate people. They don't educate the doctors or the nurses. It's not something that's mandatory. So it could have literally been diagnosed wrong or completely missed.

[A]

Well, and because it's not, you're, you're saying that literally the, the physicians out there, this is not mandatory. This, this part of women's health is not mandatory to be, to be taught in the schools.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

That's incredible, but not surprising. We're talking about women's health here. So I'm not, I can't, I can't say that I'm shocked as A woman and as a mother, that that woman's health once again has gotten thrown under the bus. The postpartum psychosis, how does this differentiate itself? Because from like depression, ocd, the other parts to postpartum, the baby comes out,

[B]

the placenta comes out and the hormones come out, right? And so then you've got this brain that needs to rewire and very, very quickly, if you have a precursor or anything in your history where you're not that great at rewiring and sometimes maybe you fall into bipolar, moments of mania, eating disorders, anything can trigger postpartum psychosis. And so when the brain is trying to re regulate after birth, there are confounding factors that we need to take into consideration. And with Lindsay Clancy, how she acted after her second baby should have been on every doctor's mind. She showed signs of mania and it's noted. And none of those doctors brought that into what they were doing with her treatment and how serious they were taking her ideation of harming her kids and herself.

[A]

For all the people out there that I see as well, and I, I bet you've seen on your, on your posts as well that, that are angry at Lindsay for doing this, angry that these children died. They want her to be held accountable in a, in a criminal way. What do you say to that right now?

[B]

Just because you haven't experienced it and you don't know anyone who's experienced it, doesn't mean it's not so. You're watching theater right now. Court trial is theater. They are performing. The experts will not be performing. They will be bringing you information that is sound and truthful. So I just encourage people that, yeah, it's horrible. What she did is horrible, but she would not have done that. She would not have killed her children if she was not floridly psychotic and people were there helping her.

[A]

She had this laundry list of medications. When you look at that as a physician, just talking about those prescriptions, what do you see?

[B]

It's a mess. What I see is people thought a nurse who was in psychosis was okay to take care of herself, and she was not. I don't care what your job is. I don't care if you're a psychiatrist, if you're a surgeon, you shouldn't be doing your own stitches. People should have been taking care of her. And I don't really. The talk is everywhere about the husband, but people, anyone should have been overseeing those medications. And with what she had told people, it should have been in a residential setting, not her own home.

[A]

But she did go into a couple of. She went in for treatment. Right. She did check herself in for treatment,

[B]

and she checked herself out, and they let her.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And she minimized the severity of her symptoms because she didn't want to lose her kids.

[A]

Well, tell me about how rare postpartum psychosis is, because I'm hearing conflicting things at this point.

[B]

I think the problem is that we don't tell anyone. You know, I have been getting so many emails since this case started about women saying that they look over and their baby's face was, like, burnt off, or their baby looked like the devil and they couldn't look back until they got their husband. They never reported it. So we. We hear one to two in every 1,000 births. Now, that is rare when it comes to science. It's not rare when it comes to how many babies are born every year. It's very hard to see what psychosis is as it progresses. But then you've got the confounding factor of the medications. So all those hormones that are trying to land and organize are then being lifted up and moved around by the medications. Mm.

[A]

Well, and she was really hopping around. Right. She had 13 prescribed medications.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And we. And why is the prosecution keep on going on about, like, well, she didn't

[B]

take them all because they're trying to show that there was an ability, an ability for linear premeditation, that she wasn't out of her mind because of the medications, that she wasn't out of her mind at all, that this was premeditated and planned. And I think they're failing right now. She appears to me to be very heavily medicated with the eyes twitching. There are minutes that go by where she's not blinking, her lack of affect, she's barely breathing, and then she will kind of flood with tears at the end each time.

[A]

As far as what Lindsay Clancy described as what happened, why she actually took the lives of her children and then tried to do the same to herself was because of these command voices. And I really think I really would like it if you could help me understand what that means.

[B]

Right. Well, I. I like to explain it as, you know, 8% of people about hear voices. Okay, that's scary. And those are just average people that we're seeing walking around us every single day. That's a high percentage. So what are they hearing? I mean, people are not great at differentiating intrusive thoughts and auditory hallucinations, which are voices. So, you know, are you really hard on yourself? And you're hearing it as though it's you. Or is it somebody else talking to you? Is it somebody from your past? Is it an ongoing male voice that you've never met? So it doesn't necessarily mean that these people are dangerous or that there's anything wrong here. And it may not be fixable. It may be. They may be positive voices. Right. They may be encouraging voices. Now, with Lindsay, we get to command hallucinations, and that's where things get very dangerous, because command hallucinations are often an outside voice that controls you, that is moving you like a puppet. And I like to describe it as when you're in that dreamlike state and you're being attacked in your dream, but you're. You can't scream. You can't find your voice. And then your spouse later will. Yeah, your. Your spouse later will be like, what. What the heck was happening? Like, your lips were closed, and you were like, that's what it feels like to be in the throes of psychosis. And so you are going to do whatever you're told because it's the truth to you.

[A]

The way you just described it is basically like you. You can't control that. These voices, but they can actually talk to you and tell you to do things.

[B]

Yes. And I can give you an example of a patient of mine if it's helpful. You know, I was talking to him, and he was having command hallucinations. And as I was talking to him, I could see that he wasn't paying attention to me at times. And he would kind of look away as though he was trying to hear something. And he was medicated. And what happened was the medication had quieted the voices, but he still wanted to hear what he had to do. So he would kind of quiet and, like, look. Look away from me and try to hear the command. And so I straight up asked him, okay, are you hearing a voice? And he said, ye. And I said, well, is the voice telling you to do something? And he said, yeah. And I said, what's the voice telling you to do? And he said, I can't tell you. It won't. It told me, I can't tell you. And I said, well, tell the voice. I won't tell anyone, I promise. I'm a doctor. Just let me know what you're supposed to do. And he said, the voice told me to snatch your earrings. And I looked at him, and I was like, well, tell the voice. I'll hand them right to you.

[A]

Yeah, I'll give them to you. Please don't rip them out of my Ears. Thank you very much.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And he said, oh, so they're very specific.

[B]

They're very specific, and they are true. They feel true. And in Lindsay's case, what I imagine, and based on so many cases like hers, is that she really thought she was saving their lives. She was saving the baby's lives by taking their lives. Saving them from what? I don't know. Hell, something. She was saving their souls by ending their lives.

[A]

The defense tried to have women come up on the stand and talk and testify on behalf of Lindsey Clancy to say, you know, I went through postpartum psychosis, I can validate what she was feeling and what was going on. They didn't allow that. Can you, can you tell me when you heard that, what. What went through your mind?

[B]

I mean, legally, I can understand that because. Because it's not factual to the case.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We. We have scientific experts that are going to come on and they're going to talk about normative samples of women who have gone through this, and it's going to be weighted in. In real scientific literature. Right. So I think it's almost good that these women weren't allowed to come forward and tell their stories, because now we have more of a hard science that the prosecution cannot wipe away, that they cannot belittle, that they cannot call a unicorn.

[A]

I want to talk a little bit about the. The journal entries that we did hear about this week. These journal entries were very specific on what, what she was going through, you know, and we heard. I have crazy brain fog. I feel like I can't make a plan. I can't carry it out. Like I'm just live moment to moment waiting for next nap time. I feel horribly guilty about my marriage. I feel incredibly sad and guilty about not breastfeeding. I feel completely disconnected with my baby. I feel like I'm going through the motions. I. A big thing is I feel disconnected with myself. Time, reality. I think going back to work will help that. So these are just journal entries that have been read out in court. This is in evidence now, and they're being read by both prosecution and defense.

[B]

I'm completely overwhelmed trying to take care of the three kids. I feel like I'm drowning every day.

[A]

What do you hear in those journal entries?

[B]

I hear exactly what I said to my husband after I had my babies. Right. But I said them. I said it to my husband. I didn't journal it. I wasn't alone. I had support. So what I'm hearing are constant cries for help, a lack of support, and an escalation of the severity of her mental health alongside an escalation of the sleep problems with the baby. And then sleep blaming. She's blaming the sleep, she's blaming herself. It is a hot mess. And then the sleep training that comes in is horrific, if anyone knows. The cry it out method is so sad for about the first 24 hours, but we have all these moments that are so triggering to Lindsay and no support is growing around her. Where's the village?

[A]

Right. And she. And she's just basically trying to get from moment to moment, but no sleep, possibly. Well, we now know that she was. She was diagnosed with a bipolar disorder afterwards, so we know that's also going on. One thing that, that struck out to me, though, is why. Why isn't she talking about the voices in her journals? Why isn't she talking about how the voices are talking to her?

[B]

She may not have had voices at that time. I think that's a big thing, is the escalation of a command hallucination. I mean, it has to earn its place. Let's say that it's not going to be there the entire time. So we have other moments of psychosis that we're seeing disorganization. She's trying to anchor herself in reality constantly, and she's not able to. She keeps lifting off, lifting out of reality. And that's when hallucinations and delusions start. Start to take over. Once you're not footed, when your feet are not grounded in reality, where else are you, but you're on your way to psychosis?

[A]

Well, and as far as these themes go that you heard in her journal entries, though, these are themes that. That fit in the postpartum world, or do they fit specifically with how you see the escalation of the psychosis?

[B]

Both. I mean, taken alone, all of these are. Are things that we've all felt as mothers. You know, are we. Our baby isn't sleeping. Are we bad because we can't breastfeed? How are we failing? Why are we failing? It's our baby. But if you put it all together and you show the escalation of the ideation of wanting to harm her kids, of harming herself, of seeking out medical care, of going in and out of the hospital, of what seems like quite an isolated, distant, romantic relationship, so put together, that's an escalation towards postpartum depression, Anxiety, OCD psychosis, all of it. And the. The big bang. There is the auditory hallucination and the psychotic episode.

[A]

So, you know, and this is what's so interesting to me, Dr. Leslie, when we're, like, listening to the journal entries, we hear the prosecution read them out, and I'm like, are you. Are you doing this for the defense? Like, maybe it's the lens that I'm looking at it through as a woman who has. Who had children as well, I don't know. But I'm trying to understand why they. When they read these, they're actually thinking that this is not relevant, that this isn't. This doesn't show a pattern of mental illness. And here's the thing. Are they trying to tell us that you can be criminally responsible and mentally ill or even insane? Are they saying that that is possible, that. That you can still be criminally responsible for what you've done? And that's important for some people.

[B]

Exactly. The goal is to say, okay, she was insane at times. Sure, we're going to land on that. Okay, she's still criminally responsible.

[A]

What do you think of that?

[B]

I. I think it's completely untrue. And I think the experts will be the ones to. To break that down completely, because I do not think she understood the consequences to her actions. And we have a lifetime of her history to show us how much she loved her children and how she. She was not like that. This is not a woman who presents as a blitz serial killer. You know, it. It's not Susan Smith, the other case, that is similar. But I think what we're going to learn is that the prosecution has not prepared themselves well enough as well. And for the prosecution to reference seeing a unicorn in the corner yesterday as a sign of mental illness, as a sign of psychosis, for them to mock and minimize the severity of mental illness in that way in front of that jury, I think just shot them in the foot. What she was writing made sense, given the situation. She wasn't writing. Is there a unicorn in the corner?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

If she's found guilty, what is this going to do to women's health? And the way we view it, I

[B]

think it'll set us back decades, back to 2002, where Andrea Yates sat in prison for three and a half years until they overturned it and said that she needed to go to a state hospital. I think the prosecution is ruining things we've built for years, and it's horrifying. My biggest recommendation is that it's, you don't have to be ill to see a therapist. You can be totally fine to have somebody else log your baseline. And I encourage that. I encourage being well and having somebody else hold you accountable. For that wellness so that they can tell when things are starting to go off. And having a baby, making a human being in your body is huge. So it's okay if somebody follows you along that journey just to make sure that you're doing okay again. It's rare that something bad is going to happen, but why not build the village while you can?

[A]

Yeah. And in your opinion, that is not what Lindsay Clancy had. She was. She was rolling this out on her own.

[B]

Very much so. And if she was offered support, I think she probably turned it down, minimized her symptoms. And she didn't have anyone fighting for her the way. The way I would have fought for her.

[A]

Drop a comment below. I want to know what you're thinking. I'm reading all of the comments, as usual, and I want to see, like, how you feel about this. I know it's incredibly controversial and for some women, incredibly triggering when we talk about postpartum, because so many women at many levels go through postpartum after a delivery. Now, that's not postpartum psychosis, of course. And I want to make sure that we include links in this episode as we talk about Lindsay Clancy to make sure that everyone gets the support and help and information that they need. Be sure to, like, subscribe. Turn on your notifications. We'll be updating the coverage on this trial and all the cases that we're watching.