← Criminally Obsessed
Loading summary
Transcript69 lines
- [00:00]
A
You're a coward.
- [00:01]
B
It was one of those courtroom moments that makes you shift in your seat. The judges laid in to the man known as the Gilgo beach serial killer.
- [00:10]
A
Are you a little bit sorry for what you did to these poor, innocent women? Eight women that you strangled to death. At least eight that we know of.
- [00:18]
B
Hey, everyone. I'm Ann Emerson, and this is Criminally Obsessed. Rex Heuermann was finally sentenced to life in prison, but the day was not about him. In fact, no one except for his lawyer even showed up for him. This was about the victims and their loved ones, like Liliana Waterman, the daughter of victim Megan Waterman. Liliana was just three years old when her mother was brutally killed by Rex Heuermann. Now she's able to face that monster.
- [00:46]
C
For so many years, this case has been a weight I carried every single day, averted of unanswered questions, grief, and a sense that justice has not been served.
- [00:55]
B
Justice doesn't bring back the lives lost, but it seems some sort of accountability for Lillian's mom, Megan Waterman, for Maureen Brainard Barnes, Melissa Barthelemy, Amberlynn Costello, Sandra Castilla, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Karen Vergata, and any other unidentified victims that may still be out there. Angenette Levy is with Law and Crime Network. She shares with us what it was like to be in that courtroom.
- [01:25]
C
It was packed in there. It was very tense. It was very emotional. These women, he viewed them as somebody he was paying for a service and that he could use and abuse and throw away, like, trash.
- [01:44]
B
Be sure to like and subscribe. I don't want you to miss any of our upcoming episodes. Now let's get into it. Today must have been an incredibly emotional day for the sentencing of the Gilgo beach serial killer. I can't believe you were there, Angenette. How did it go?
- [02:04]
C
It was a really sad, long, emotional day. You know, I think that people see people who follow crime, they see this, and they know there are victims behind this. And this is an older case, of course, because these homicides started back in 1993, and the last known victim was murdered in 2010. Two of the young women were actually murdered in 2010. And so I think people see this and they. They think they. The older pictures, the victims, and they. They see a headline, and they see this guy that looks like this kind of big, as he's been described, an ogre, and they think, wow, there's a serial killer out on Long Island. And there is. But today, and in case you forgot, you know, obviously there are victims These are real, live people. We listened in the courtroom to the stories of these women, and we listen to the pain in the voices of their. Their mothers, their. Their fathers, their. Their daughters, their sisters, and what they've endured over the years. When their loved ones didn't come home one night and they expected them home, it was out of character. And they may have been working as sex workers, they may have fallen into that trade somehow, but they were still women who had home hopes and aspirations and dreams, and they didn't deserve in any way to have their lives stolen from them, to endure torturous, horrific deaths. I think people have no clue, nor. Nor should they, really, the torture, the sheer torture that these women endured at the hands of Rex Hurman before they were murdered by him. They endured horrific torture. And he documented his. What you look at his Internet searches for the pornography he was watching for his planning document. He's a monster. He's a sadistic monster. And today we got to hear about these women who had hopes and dreams, who had families who loved them. It wasn't like them to not come home.
- [04:17]
B
We've got the families of these victims. We've got a packed courtroom, and then. And then we have Rex Heuerman show up. Like, what did it feel like? Take me inside that courtroom.
- [04:30]
C
It was just, you know, it was very tense. It was packed in there. It was very tense. It was very emotional, very serious. I mean, and that's. I'm not saying that flippantly, but it doesn't get more serious than this. You know, a lot of people who follow true crime, they watch this. But when you really sit in the room and you. You see up close and firsthand the pain that these people have been through and that they live every day, this is their life every day, going through their lives without. Without their loved one and then knowing how their loved one died. Especially, you know, Jessica Taylor's cousin said, you know, I'll never forget. I'll never forget the phone call I got. They said, torso. And she. She had to really, like, think a torso, because that is what was found, a torso of. Of Jessica, you know, because her remains were found in two different spots in two different locations over many years. That's what somebody did. That's what Rex Herman did to her cousin Jessica after he defiled her. He dismembered her and threw her away like trash. And she was supposed to come home and see them that weekend, and they knew something was wrong because she didn't come home, and they knew she wouldn't do that. And so they spent years trying to figure out what happened to her. And the whole time he knew and he just kept going on with his plans and his life, acting like he was just a dad living in a house in Massapequa and going into the city to be a building inspector or whatever. You know, people say he's an architect. I've been told he was more really like a building inspector. And then there was another one. Anne was very powerful. She was a fighter for love, for family, and for a better life. Melissa Barthelemy's younger sister, Amanda. You know, she was just a teenager when she was murdered, when she went missing, and Rex Herman took her cell phone, took Melissa's cell phone into midtown Manhattan after he murdered her at his house and dumped her body on Gilgo beach and called Amanda like a 15 year old girl, called her and basically told her what he did to her sister in graphic language, called her some names, you know, and, and taunted her on the phone. And this is a 15 year old girl, like, so he was getting some type of gratification off of tormenting and taunting a 15 year old girl. Like, who does that? And she said, you can look at me when I talk to you. You know, it's been a while since we've talked, you know, so she was very brave. I was like, you go, like, you go, girl.
- [07:36]
B
What did it feel like as these statements were read? Like how, what was the mood in the courtroom? And was there anything that really stood out to you during these statements that maybe you, you really hadn't heard before?
- [07:46]
C
I mean, it was just very quiet, you know, I mean, it was very solemn. And in some ways I almost felt like it was, I mean, it was almost like a, I don't want to call it a funeral, but it almost had that tone to it in a way. Yeah, because you're grieving your loved one, but also sharing with the court how, how loved they were. And you're, you're, you're giving everybody details about this person that maybe they didn't know. She was loving, selfless and unforgettable. Maureen Brainard Barnes. You know, you see her photograph when you read about the story, but you don't know that she was a poet like she, she loved to write poetry and that she was very like, you know, deeply perceptive and intellectual. Her sister said when Rex chose to take more of the psych, he didn't just take her from us. He took my sense of safety, he took my case of mind, he took the way I used to Move through the world without fear. In many ways, I became one of his victims, too. You know, her son was only one when she disappeared. He never knew his mother. He doesn't remember her. And, you know, her daughter, Nicolette, she was a little older, and so she does have, you know, memories of her mother, but she still. She grew up without her mom. And then, which was another sad one, was Megan Waterman's daughter, Liliana. She's just like this beautiful young woman. For so many years, this case has been a weight I carried every single day. Averted of unanswered questions, grief, and a sense that justice has not been served. She was, like, three years old, four years old when Megan disappeared. So she grew up without a mom and moved state to state. Her whole life was disrupted because a monster stole her mommy from her. You know, it's just awful. And I'm trying to think of some of the others. You know, there were so many. Valerie Mack, her. Her parents got up and spoke, and they were. They said, you know, you may have done horrific things to her body here on earth, but you didn't take her soul. And they spoke about how she. You know, she's in heaven, and they believe that. And they. They just talked about her, you know, basically maybe having some struggles, but that she was a good person. So each one of them humanized their loved one.
- [10:26]
B
Yeah.
- [10:26]
C
Way that no one else could.
- [10:30]
B
When it was time for Rex Heuermann to speak, can you tell me about what happened during that time? Because he did. He did choose to speak.
- [10:38]
C
He did. And we. We actually were told, you know, Mike Brown, his lawyer, said that he would speak at the plea hearing. He's like, you know, I'm pretty sure he's gonna have something to say. And then, you know, Bob thought he would say something, too. He told me that yesterday, and I was like, okay. So. So I was waiting for him. It's like, you. You. Who knows? Like, this was a pr. This was basically a predetermined sentence. Essentially, it was a foregone conclusion. I mean, it was a. It was a plea agreement. The judge was not gonna. The judge was not gonna go against this, and the judge wasn't gonna, like, grant him the chance at parole. This is a horrific case. So I. I was thinking to myself, like, what is he gonna say? Like, is he actually going to apologize? Is he. Is he going to do that?
- [11:27]
A
Or.
- [11:28]
C
Or will he do something, show remorse? Will he make it worse than. And, you know, will he say something to hurt these families? Because he is kind of a Sadistic. Not kind of. He's a sadistic person. That's who. Who he is. Like, yeah.
- [11:44]
B
I mean, after what you said that he said to the 15 year old on the phone, I mean, he could have. He could have come. He could have said something crazy.
- [11:51]
C
He could have said something really crazy and just to like, the mask is. The mask is gone. There's no mask anymore. You know, the real Rex Heuermann has been revealed. So I was thinking anything was possible. And so he. He gets up and. And this is after. He literally doesn't look at any of them the entire time. He just sits there looking kind of straight ahead or down with his hands folded. And I'm thinking, is he just thinking, this is like, oh, gosh, I gotta go to this and what am I going to have for lunch? Like, I mean, literally. I mean, that's how, like, blase he looked sitting there, literally not looking. Looking like he cared about anything.
- [12:37]
A
There are no words I can say. I am responsible for what was said in this room today. The. The words I would say have no
- [12:46]
C
meaning, and I'm going to be it there. At this time, there were like, kind of gasps, like. Like what? Like this is what you say. Like, I mean, it was kind of like that kind of reaction. Like what? Like this is what you're saying. And so the judge was exasperated.
- [13:09]
A
I know that you're sorry that you got caught. I assume that you're sorry for what you've done to your wife and children. Are you a little bit sorry for what you did to these poor innocent women? Eight women that you strangled to death, at least eight that we know of. Are you at least a little bit sorry for that?
- [13:28]
C
He was so animated. He was so mad, and he was like. You could just see he. And so he. And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I mean, that's kind of like. Kind of like nodded, like,
- [13:45]
B
yeah, I'm sorry.
- [13:46]
C
But it was like, I agree.
- [13:47]
B
And the judge was like, give me something to work with here.
- [13:50]
C
And he didn't. And even his lawyer, Mike Brown, turned around, which he didn't have to do, and addressed the victims and said, basically, like, I've gone through the discovery. I feel like I know your. Your loved ones. And like, he said, like, to them, you couldn't hear it because the mic was too far away, but he said they were beautiful women. I mean, he, you know, he's a decent human being, Mike Brown is. And he. He has a job to do to represent Rex Sherman. He's a defense Attorney. And he.
- [14:26]
A
He.
- [14:28]
C
He said more than Rex Shman did. So, yeah, the judge was exasperated and just was like. Like, basically, they say you're a big guy, but you're a small, you know, coward. I'm paraphrasing here. And then when they. He's done sentencing and he's like, get him out of here. And like, the courtroom erupted in collapse, so. And cheers.
- [14:54]
A
Get him out of here.
- [14:59]
B
It really brings home to me that he really didn't see these people as people. These. These victims, these women were not human beings. These were just objects to him. I mean, we've been told this. We've been told that. That this is how this works with these serial killers, but when you see it so close up, it's. It's hard to believe that somebody could be this screwed up.
- [15:23]
C
Yeah, Basically, that's the 100% the truth. These women, he viewed them as somebody he was paying for a service and that he could use and. And abuse and throw away like trash. That's obviously the way he feels about them. And I think that he would have continued doing what he was doing had
- [15:53]
A
the four
- [15:56]
C
women's bodies not been discovered on Gilgo Beach.
- [16:00]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think that he was just getting better at it. Right? He was. He was learning how to. To time it out better. Right. He actually played with these bodies that. He actually held onto these bodies for a while before he actually dumped them.
- [16:16]
C
He, in his planning document, wrote something to the effect of, you know, if he got more sleep, he would have more play time.
- [16:27]
A
Okay.
- [16:29]
C
He wrote that. So he wrote of ways to make it easier or to refine, I guess, to refine his craft or to hone his skills. And he was studying, you know, John Douglas, who. Who founded the BAU or helped found the BAU at the FBI. He was studying his book and studying serial killers. So he did. And he, you know, he tried to say in that Peacock documentary through a therapist that he did things to these women after they had died, but I don't know if I believe that based on the planning document and based on the pornography that he was watching, I. I think that he may have done things to these poor women while they were alive. While they were alive? Yeah.
- [17:18]
B
Oh, my God. And you brought up the behavioral experts that are going to be looking at him. This is part of the deal. They've made a big. They've made a big point of this. Why are they making such a big point of it, do you think?
- [17:32]
C
I think because they really want to study him and learn from Him I want, because they can learn a lot that may help in the future. And, you know, he's readily, he's confessed. So a lot of what he, you know, a lot of these guys will still lie. Even if he's confessed, he's still going to lie. You know, a lot of what he says, as Ray Tierney said, and I agree with this, is self serving. He's going to minimize his crimes, but they still are going to be able to glean some information from him that could be helpful in tracking down other predators and serial killers. So finding out what makes him tick and what made him the way that he is. So that, that could be very helpful. So I think they're making a big deal out of that. I wouldn't be surprised too, if Rex wanted that since he was studying John Douglas's book. Like, if he's like thinking to himself, like, I am so prolific, they should study me. You know, I, I could totally see that.
- [18:37]
B
Well, I kind of enjoyed like a, a point that it came out. Sorry. In the, in the coverage of this over the last day, you know, I heard one of the victim's family members say you weren't that good at what you did. I mean, you did say that he made mistakes. Well, and that's, I wanted to ask about, like, if, if they hadn't found the hair on those victims. When you've spoken to all of these people, you know, do they feel like they would have been able to get him if they hadn't found, like, that the hair that was found on the victims? Was that sort of the turning point of this case?
- [19:17]
C
I think it was much harder. I think it would have been much harder, but they had other evidence. They had Amber Costello's roommate saying, look, she had this customer, this client who drove a Green Avalanche, and he looked like an ogre. Plus they had cell phone evidence, these boxes showing cell phone pings in midtown Manhattan in the area of his office in Massapequa Park. When they searched the Green avalanche back in 2022, or it was either 2022 or early 2023, and they searched for Green Avalanches in Massapequa park, one name came back, Rex Yerman. So that was a strong lead. The DNA, of course, very strong. So it may have been more difficult without the DNA, of course, is very good evidence. But they did have other evidence.
- [20:19]
B
They were, you know, it was interesting. Ray Tierney afterwards was like, we're getting them into the prison system as fast as we can.
- [20:25]
C
Yeah, they want to be rid of him.
- [20:27]
B
Yeah, they're like get him out of Suffolk County.
- [20:29]
C
Yeah. They also, like, apparently every time they move him through the jail, they have to, like, shut down the whole jail. You know, he's in isolation, so it's. He's a total pain, and he's sitting in there reading about serial killers.
- [20:41]
B
You know what I did see as well is a video of people outside of the courtroom. They were dressed in red and holding red umbrellas. Did you get a chance to speak to any of them?
- [20:52]
C
Yeah, they were there to advocate for sex workers and to kind of campaign against crimes committed against sex workers. And I just spoke to one, and she said that's why they were there, so to show support for sex workers.
- [21:06]
B
Was there much of a crowd outside?
- [21:09]
C
I mean, it was, like, a pretty good crowd. Probably more media than anything, but there were, you know, people just coming to watch as well.
- [21:17]
B
When you talk to. To the attorney, did he explain why Asa didn't want to be there?
- [21:22]
C
He said that she believed that she would be a distraction and that today should be about the victims, because every time she shows up to court, you know, everybody's chasing her down, putting a microphone in her face. Like, what do you think? Do you believe he's innocent? Do you believe he's guilty? You know, for what it's worth, Bob said that she has now come to terms with and now realizes that, yes, he did murder these women. He said that Victoria, the daughter, was actually kind of like a year behind or a year ahead of Asa in this process. Like, she came to the realization more quickly because can you imagine, like, you go to work with your dad every day, and then the cops scoop him up in midtown, and they're like, he. Your dad's. They show up at your house in the search warrant, and they're like, well, your dad's the Gilgo beach serial killer. And you're like, what? I mean, so, yeah, obviously, she. She came to the realization much more quickly than her mother that he, indeed was guilty. And then he confessed to both of them.
- [22:30]
B
Are you hearing that they've sold the house and moved on with their life? Are they trying to. I mean, what do you do, Get a facelift and, like, change your name?
- [22:37]
C
I think that they're still living there. And, you know, I. I do think it is sad, though, that there are people to this day who are still saying that the wife and daughter were involved because their hairs were found on some of that, you know, the burlap.
- [22:52]
B
But they.
- [22:53]
C
They weren't involved.
- [22:54]
B
They were.
- [22:55]
C
They were clearly out of town when these things happened. There's evidence, clear evidence that they were out of town. And so they're still being put through the mill by people who think that they were involved.
- [23:06]
B
But as far as they're staying in that house because of financial reasons, did you ever get an answer?
- [23:11]
C
No, I didn't. Honestly.
- [23:15]
B
It's just where they are with their life right now.
- [23:18]
C
I think that's. That's home. That's the only home they've ever known.
- [23:23]
B
That must be very difficult to live there with all of this media attention. It's not going away anytime. I mean, it's not really going away yet. You know, we've seen it with other cases, Angenette. It doesn't. You know, there's always a stigma.
- [23:38]
C
And I think. I think that people. I think that people are not crowding around their house anymore. So that's kind of good.
- [23:47]
B
Yeah. And the women that you spoke with, the family members, I think one of the big things that they also said was they're looking to make sure that the Son of Sam law is updated so that people are not making money off of this crime.
- [24:03]
C
Correct. You know, they. The family apparently was paid at least a million dollars. This is what the reporting is for, the Peacock documentary. I mean, Rex is featured in it, the phone he calls from the jail. So, I mean, we'll see if they're going to do more with that. But they made money off of this. And so there's a bill right now pending in the New York legislature to update the Son of Sam law to prevent family members from profiting as well. I mean, Rex and Asa divorced. She filed for divorce immediately, and they were very open about the fact that that was to protect her from any litigation and to protect her financially and to protect assets.
- [24:48]
B
Well, and now also the money that that has been made off of it, it'll be interesting to see what happens with that bill. I'm so glad the courtroom for us, as well as your show and your network and everybody that you work with. But, Angela, I'm so glad you could talk to us about what happened today. To have eyes and ears in that courtroom was so important and. And to. And to walk away from this story and really be able to think about and. And understand and learn more about the victims in this, the women who suffered so greatly. So I'm glad we could talk about them today. To drop a comment below, I want to hear what you're thinking about this sentencing. You know, it was such a powerful day for the victims families to be able to finally say their piece and to face this monster. Be sure to like and subscribe to Criminally Obsessed. I don't want you to miss any of the upcoming episodes.