Mother Who Survived Postpartum Psychosis Reacts to Lindsay Clancy Trial

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mother Who Survived Postpartum Psychosis Reacts to Lindsay Clancy Trial

Podcast: Criminally Obsessed
Host: Anne Emerson
Date: July 29, 2026
Guest: Katherine Myers, postpartum psychosis survivor

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Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, investigative journalist Anne Emerson brings the often-stigmatized reality of postpartum psychosis to the forefront. The episode centers on Katherine Myers’ harrowing personal account of surviving postpartum psychosis, using her testimony to contextualize the highly publicized Lindsay Clancy trial, where the defendant’s mental state is fiercely debated. The conversation is not a defense of Clancy but a compassionate exploration of an often misunderstood and underdiagnosed medical crisis affecting new mothers.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Lived Experience of Postpartum Psychosis

• Immediate Symptoms

  • A month after giving birth, Katherine began experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations—hearing voices and seeing shifting shadows resembling her husband. ([00:51])
  • “I’m having a conversation in out loud to what I don’t know. To what I’m hearing as people...I’m here, and now they're responding to me.” – Katherine ([00:51])
  • Her sense of reality blurred—she tracked herself obsessively, leaving sticky notes around the house, terrified she might forget or misremember caring for her baby. ([19:16])

• Detachment from Reality

  • “It is such an altered state of mind that you are not aware of what your reality is. You are not aware of what is not real, what is real. It comes on quickly. It can come and go in phases. It is just a very complex situation that is different with everybody.” – Katherine ([06:33])

• Stigma & Secrecy

  • Katherine kept her symptoms mostly to herself, sharing only partial truths with her supportive husband and hiding the full extent from friends due to shame and fear of judgment. ([19:38], [20:41])

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2. The Lindsay Clancy Trial Context

• Trial Framing

  • The defense claims Lindsay Clancy suffered from postpartum psychosis and lacked criminal responsibility when she killed her children; the prosecution rebuts, calling her “controlling, meticulous, and manipulative.” ([02:04], [02:19])
  • Importantly, Judge disallowed testimony from women with lived experience of postpartum psychosis, leaving a gap in the jury’s understanding. ([00:13])

• Public Response & Stigmatization

  • After Katherine shared her story online, thousands of women reached out, echoing similar experiences but voicing fear of coming forward. Anne highlights this overwhelming yet hidden burden. ([02:35], [37:55])

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3. Breaking Down Katherine’s Story

Background

• Married hairstylist, mother of four (including twins and a child with autism), active in her community, PTO vice president—outwardly “normal life.” ([07:18], [07:55])

The Descent:

• Her hallucinations began in a seemingly "perfect" postpartum period with good sleep, a healthy baby, and no apparent external stressors. ([09:09])
• First, familiar male voices echoed in the house, then shifting shadows and faces, then increasingly dissociative experiences. ([12:04], [14:30], [22:08])
• She described a chilling moment where her baby appeared in two places at once, leading her to question her own memory and actions. ([15:57])

“I start obsessively writing sticky notes all over my house...because now I’m worried. Did I feed my baby? Did I change his diaper? Or did I imagine it?” – Katherine ([19:16])

• The hallucinations escalated over months. A breakthrough came when her baby’s face “started to shift, like he was aging rapidly into, like, an old man.” ([23:40])
• She accepted this as her new reality, explaining that in psychosis, “your reality shifts so seamlessly where you just become a part of your own reality, and you’re comfortable with it.” ([23:52])

Seeking Help:

• After five months, Katherine recognized she was no longer coping and confessed to her psychiatrist (who had treated her for over a decade).
• Upon hearing “postpartum psychosis,” she was shocked—she had never even heard the term. ([27:50])
• With diagnosis and medication, her symptoms gradually subsided, and she began to regain a grasp on reality. ([27:50])
• Even after recovery, she struggled with the trauma and “what ifs” of how badly things could have gone. ([31:12])

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4. Barriers to Early Diagnosis and Care

• Lack of Awareness & Systemic Gaps

  • Katherine iterates the absolute necessity for early education—not just for new mothers, but for partners and families. ([05:40], [34:25])
  • “I don’t think that the first time that you hear about it, it should be at your diagnosis.” – Katherine ([36:32])

• Treatment Gaps

  • She recounts another woman’s experience: An inpatient psych hospital turned away a mother for being “self-aware” of her psychosis, denying her more intensive care. ([38:46])
  • “That was shocking to me...I thought that that was an option for everybody, that if you walked into a place, surely that they would say, we’re not gonna let you go home. This is an emergency.” – Katherine ([39:40])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It is not the same as postpartum depression. It is a medical emergency.” – Katherine ([03:49])
• “You're literally unplugging things from your house because you're like, this is a real sound. Obviously, something’s coming through of my devices.” – Anne ([14:12])
• “It’s like having two TV shows on side by side, and the sound is on, but you don’t know which one it’s on for. So you’re constantly, like, checking to make sure, is this person real? Is this thing real? Is my baby really here?” – Katherine ([24:00])
• “If I would have known about it before I was diagnosed, I would have contacted. I wouldn’t have let it go on for months.” – Katherine ([41:46])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:13 | Why lived experience is excluded from the Clancy trial
• 00:51–01:10 | Katherine’s initial symptoms (voices, shadows)
• 03:49 | Emphasizing postpartum psychosis as a medical emergency
• 06:33 | Katherine defines the psychotic experience
• 07:55 | Outwardly “normal” life, hidden illness
• 12:04 | The nature of hallucinations
• 14:30, 15:57 | Escalation: obsessively tracking actions, baby appears in two places
• 19:16 | Extreme self-monitoring and memory lapses
• 23:52 | Acceptance of altered reality, baby’s face shifts
• 27:50 | Diagnosis and start of treatment
• 31:12 | Wrestling with the trauma and “what ifs”
• 34:25 | The need for systemic change and standard screening
• 38:46–39:40 | Systemic barriers: denial of inpatient care when self-aware
• 41:46 | Call to action: urgency for education and destigmatization

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Conclusion & Call to Action

Anne and Katherine stress that postpartum psychosis is a medical emergency, not a character flaw or failure. The reluctance to share or seek help is driven by stigma, ignorance, and structural gaps in the medical system. Katherine’s story is a plea for earlier education, better psychiatric support, and, most crucially, for survivors to speak without shame. The episode is a vital resource for anyone looking to understand the complexities behind the headlines of the Lindsay Clancy trial—and the hidden battles of countless mothers.

“The sooner you can get them to admit what’s going on, the sooner we can get them to safety.” – Katherine ([03:49])

“I don’t think the first time you hear about it should be at your diagnosis.” – Katherine ([36:32])

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For further awareness, Anne urges listeners to share, comment, and help break the silence—so no more women or families endure this in the shadows.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everyone. I'm Ann Emerson, and this is criminally obsessed.

[B]

I'm tracking myself because now I'm worried. Am I taking. Did I feed my baby? Did I. Did I take care of it? Did I change his diaper? Or did I imagine it?

[A]

What does postpartum psychosis actually feel like? Not what the lawyers say or the experts say. What does it feel like to the woman living it? That's what you're about to hear. Because the jury in the Lindsey Clancy trial never will. The judge decided to keep women from testifying about their own personal experience with postpartum psychosis.

[B]

I see his face just start to shift, like he was aging rapidly into, like, an old man.

[A]

This woman is Catherine Myers. And about a month after her baby was born, she started hearing voices, seeing shadows that look like her husband.

[B]

I'm having a conversation in out loud to what I don't know. To what I'm hearing as people. Thoughts, not thoughts. I'm hearing voices. I'm here, and now they're responding to me.

[A]

She says she was quickly losing her grip on reality.

[B]

I didn't know about postpartum psychosis until my psych told me, you're starting postpartum psychosis. I had never heard about it.

[A]

Katherine never told her friends. She never told her family. She didn't even tell her husband everything until now. She says she couldn't stay quiet any longer. And I have to tell you, this may be one of the most important conversations I've ever had because it takes us inside the mind of a woman who survived postpartum psychosis and lived to tell us how she escaped her nightmare. It's a perspective the jury in the Lindsay Clancy trial will never get to hear. Lindsey Clancy is accused in the deaths of her three young children in January 2023. In their opening statement, her defense said she was suffering from postpartum psychosis, that she was insane under the law and lacked criminal responsibility. The defense said this.

[B]

She loved those children right up to the time of their death.

[A]

The prosecution told jurors. Hogwash.

[B]

The evidence will show you she was not psychotic that day. Somebody extremely controlling, meticulous, and manipulative.

[A]

But listen to Katherine. For her, the illness kept getting worse.

[B]

But then once it started escalating to now I'm seeing figures walk by me regularly, and I was fine with because I was like, this is just my life now.

[A]

My producer found Catherine after she shared her story on Facebook. And what happened next surprised me. Thousands of women responded to her post. They wrote that they'd heard voices Too. They'd seen the shadows. They'd been terrified to tell anyone. And whether you believe Lindsay Clancy was suffering from postpartum psychosis or you believe she was a murderer, I'm not asking you to change your mind about Lindsay Clancy. And neither is my guest today. We're just asking you to listen because Katherine Myers is about to take us to a place where some women never come back from. Be sure to like and subscribe. We'll be updating this story. Now let's get into it. Kathryn Myers, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show. You know, Katherine, I think this is the first time that you've told this story, isn't it?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We found you because you posted on Facebook that this trial is hard for you to watch. You know, that you don't necessarily support Lindsay Clancy. You don't know what went on in her mind for sure. But you want to tell your story about going through postpartum psychosis. Yes,

[B]

because I just think that people are not aware that this could happen to your friend, this could happen to yourself, this could happen to your partner, and that it is not a. It is not the same as postpartum depression. It is a medical emergency. It is not the same as being tired, and it is a medical emergency. And I think that women need to be aware about it, and I think that men need to be aware about it, because, like I said, my husband was the only one that I was talking to about this. And I think that the more educated that men and women can be, that we can prevent women from having the shame and the stigma of mental health and accepting help. And the sooner we can get them to admit what's going on, the sooner we can get them to safety.

[A]

I have to say, it was so brave for you to talk about it because of all the baggage that comes along with it. So I just want to applaud you for feeling comfortable enough to share your story, but also what it could mean for other women who may have experienced this and honestly had no clue this was what they were going through. Yeah.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I mean, and, you know, I wanted to talk for a minute because we're putting this into perspective, Catherine, your experience with postpartum psychosis with what's going on right now in the Lindsay Clancy trial. Having said that, this is not about this. Part of it is not about Lindsay Clancy. This is about building context. Am I right? Yes. And, you know, why did you want to do an interview about this today? What was the impetus behind it?

[B]

Well, when you reached out to me, I thought it was important for women to learn about this condition. That is not very common, but it's common enough. I didn't know about postpartum psychosis until my psych told me. You're starting postpartum psychosis. I had never heard about it. It was not a condition I was aware existed. It was not something that I was familiar with. And I just think that the more educated women can be, especially on mental health and postpartum health, the better that they can be set up for that part of the world.

[A]

Let's put it into context for the Lindsay Clancy trial. You know, we're going to be watching this for the next six weeks. What do you think people need to understand about postpartum psychosis going into a trial like this?

[B]

That it is such an altered state of mind that you are not aware of what your reality is. You are not aware of what is not real. What is real. It comes on quickly. It can come and go in phases. It is just a very complex situation that is different with everybody. It's not just like, oh, Catherine's was like this. So everyone's must be like this. It varies from person to person and it is such a terrifying experience.

[A]

And tell me a little bit about yourself, Katherine. We want to get to know you a bit.

[B]

Yeah. I have four kids, I have twins, I have a stepson, I have a five year old son that is just the light of my life. He has level three autism and he is just the absolute joy of our family. I'm a hairstylist. My husband is a financial advisor. We have a pretty normal life, I would say.

[A]

Yeah. I mean you're PTO president.

[B]

I was PTO vice president at the time of my postpartum psychosis. Yeah. I was soccer mom, basketball mom, twin mom, like newborn mom, vice president of the pto. I volunteer random organizations when I can. I was hairstylists at the time at a salon. I just, I. A full life, you would never have known, you would never have suspected it. Most of my friends and family, when I'm talking to them about it now, had no idea. My husband was the only one that knew because it was such a level of like shame. Especially when you are trying to appear and present yourself as I've got it, I'm under, I've got this under control. Look at me, I've got four kids. Like I've got a newborn. It's great. Like I can do everything. No one wants to say, hey guys, I'm actually hearing voices. And seeing people in my house that aren't really there, like, that's such a hard thing to say.

[A]

Katherine, tell me what happened. Get me. Take me back to, I guess, September 2020.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're in the throes of COVID and you're having a baby.

[B]

It sucked. It was hard. It was. I mean, I spent. I got pregnant in January of 2020, so I spent my whole last pregnancy just in isolation and lockdown and everything. And I was so excited to have my son. My husband and I was our first child together. We were great. We had our baby in the middle of September, and he was great. He slept perfect. He ate perfect. He was so sweet. He was cuddly. Like, he was perfectly healthy. There was nothing wrong with him. It was great. And I was getting sleep. I was getting, like, 8 to 12 hours of sleep a night. I was getting naps during the day. Yeah, it was amazing. It was perfect.

[A]

Yeah, I did. I definitely did not get that. So that's amazing.

[B]

Get it other times either. Like, I didn't get it with my twins at all. So I was like, this is heaven. Like, I can't wait. This is the best. And I was at home. It was probably about a month or so after I had my son, and. And I was home alone. My husband was at the office. My big kids were at school. It was just me and my dogs and the baby. And I heard a male voice. And I remember thinking, like, oh, maybe my husband's home for lunch. You know, maybe that's what it is. And I looked, and I didn't see him. And I was like, okay. And that happened a few more times. And then I started calling my husband. When I would hear the voice, and the voice would say, like, hey, honey. Or like. Like, just like a friendly kind of V voice. And I would call my husband, I would say, hey, babe, are you in the house? And he would say, no, I'm at the office. What's. What's up? Okay, that's fine. Maybe it's the tv. So then I started, you know, maybe I'll just turn the TV off. Then it started. I'm seeing shadows out of the corner of my eye. I'm seeing that you can tell are. Are a person. Like, if somebody were to walk by the side of this room right now, I wouldn't see them, but I would know, oh, that's my husband. Oh, that's my dog. Oh, that's my child. And you know who it was? And it was. It was an adult man. And I'm Then thinking, it has to be my husband. So then I start, you know, clearly, this is in my head. Something's like I'm. Maybe I'm watching too much tv, sitting on the couch, you know, breastfeeding my kid. I don't know. I start locking the door. Then obsessively, I start unplugging baby monitors because I'm hearing voices. I'm thinking maybe it's one of those weird things where you're picking up the neighbor's baby monitor. I don't know. I'm unplugging surround sound speakers. I'm taking batteries out of toys. I'm. Anything doing this, anything. I'm like, okay, so there's no electronics at all.

[A]

I want to ask you about that voice at first. What did the voice sound like? Just so that we can get a clear. It is the creepiest thing. Honestly, this is like the American Horror Story. I mean, this is absolutely terrifying to me. But tell me, Catherine, what did that voice sound like? Like, can you describe it?

[B]

It sounded, like, similar to my husband, but it was like, not my husband. So it was like kind of when you're in a dream and you have your husband and your kids and your mom and dad in your dream, but they look different. But in your dream, you know that that's my kids and that's my husband, but they looked differently. That's, like, one of the best ways that I can describe what these visuals and, like, misperceptions were like, is. You know, it's familiar. You know, it's something. But it looks differently. But it. It's like your mind's telling you it's okay. Like, it's safe. Like, I. I thought it was my husband's voice for a long time, and

[A]

it was, like, vibrating, almost like you could feel. And that's what I was trying to. What was that? Describe to me. Like, feel that voice in your head.

[B]

Yeah, so. So when I thought of voices, people hearing voices, people in psychosis hearing things, voices telling them to do stuff. Whatever I'm thinking, oh, that's just gonna be like an internalized voice, an inner voice, thoughts in your head, racing thoughts. No, it's like an actual voice that you can feel, like, the vibrations in your ears. Like, just like this conversation. It feels. You hear it with your ears. I thought it would be, like, just with your brain, just inside your head. No, you're hearing it actually with your ears, and it makes everything in your body, and your brain is telling you that's a sound. Like, that's not a Thought that's a sound. And I never would have thought that that's what psychosis voices would feel like. Or when people say that they're hearing voices or anything. I thought it was thoughts. It's very real, actual sounds, physical sounds.

[A]

So you're. You're literally unplugging things from your house because you're like, this is a real sound. Obviously, something's coming through of my devices. Right. So. So let's pick it up there. Like, what. What happened at that point when you're. When you're unplugging things. And this is like a month. Like, Right?

[B]

So, yeah, so we're like a month or so in, and it's, you know, getting into the holiday season. My kids have sports. I'm, you know, just trying to pass off stuff is like, maybe I'm stressed out and I'm hearing stuff. Then I'm like, unplugging everything. And. And I'm noticing this is kind of weird behavior because I was calling my husband regularly. Are you in the house? Are you at home? Are you. Did you just come in the house? Like, I would be upstairs in the nursery, and I would hear, like, very clearly the front door open and close very clearly, and there's no one else here. The front door is locked twice. And my husband is like. At this point, he's like, thinking, I'm just being like, more. And like, postpartum anxiety almost, or. Postpartum.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was like, honey, I'm hearing this. I'm hearing you come in. I'm hearing people open my front door, close it. And I started to just, I guess, get used to it. And I was hearing voices. And one time, the voice that I heard was a man. And he said, hey. And I said, hello. And he said, how are you doing? And that scared me because I never. I never, like, talked to them. But it was.

[A]

You were talking back, like, how we're having a conversation.

[B]

I'm having a conversation in. Out loud. To what? I don't know. To what I'm hearing as people. Thoughts, like, not thoughts. I'm hearing voices. I'm here, and now they're responding to me. And then I started to really lose it when I one time vividly remember this. I was sitting on the couch with my baby, and he looked like he was going to sleep. So I picked him up, walked across the room, put him in his swing for him to sleep. He didn't fall asleep. So I got up. This is the middle of the day. This is like 1pm I'm watching a tv show on netflix or something and eating lunch. I'm wide awake. I go and pick him up from the swing and bring him back and sit him down next to me because he was just awake. So I'm like, I might as well just have him sitting next to me. And then I hear crying from behind the couch. And I'm like, what the hell's that? And I, I look behind the couch and it's my baby on the floor behind the couch, by next to the swing. He wasn't like stuffed behind the couch or anything. He was on the floor next to the swing. And I looked next to me on the couch. He's not there. He's behind. I took me a minute to be like, is this my baby? Am I really seeing my baby? And that scared me because I was like, okay, now I'm trying to figure out if this is really my baby or not. Now I'm trying to figure out, how did the baby get there? How long did the baby get there? I start, like, checking my phone for, like, did I fall asleep? Like, I'm looking at my watch, like, did something happen? I mean, he's a month old. He's not crawling away. He's probably two months old at this time. And so he's not moving. Like he's not doing anything. And he was on the floor crying. And I, I, I, I vividly remember picking him up, feeling him, bringing him, sitting him next to me on the couch, sitting there and just innocently watching tv, and he's on the floor. I don't understand. So then I started obsessively tracking myself because that panicked me because again, I want to be a stable, you know, mom. I don't want my husband to have to worry. He's busy at work, he's got clients, he's got business trips. My kids have school, my friends and family. Again, height of COVID Nobody's checking on each other like we, like we can now. And so I don't want to worry anybody. So I'm like, okay, I've got this. I can handle this. I start obsessively writing sticky notes all over my house. Like, fed Joey at 2pm, switch the laundry at 3 o'. Clock. You know, don't forget, pick up kids at 4pm so I could kind of like, see, okay, I've been, I mean, I'm sticking them on the fridge, on the front door, on the wall, in my room, on the mirrors. Like, it's everywhere. Like I was some kind of, like, I mean, literally felt like I had dementia or something. And I'm tracking myself because now I'm worri. Am I taking. Did I feed my baby? Did I, did I take care of it? Did I change his diaper? Or did I imagine it? Because now I'm thinking he's next to me on the couch, he's behind me on the floor. And I mean, so I started obsessively checking myself and tracking myself with notes and everything. And that carried on. That literally just stopped within the last year or so.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

That was a behavior that became kind of like an obsession because I was so afraid.

[A]

So you're a couple months into it. Have you been able to talk to anybody about this? Confide what's happening besides. Or are you telling your husband what's going on?

[B]

I'm telling my husband kind of like a PG version of it. I did not tell him about like leaving the baby on the. Like have somehow the baby being on the floor. So when I made that post on Facebook last week, I texted him at work and I said, hey, I just want to let you know I'm going to make this postpartum post and the psychosis post and it might be hard for you to read, so I just want you to be aware that. And he said okay, like, thank you for telling me. And he's the most supportive man. He's absolutely amazing. I would not be able to do this without him. But even I was keeping it just a little bit. Like, yeah, I'm hearing and seeing some stuff, but it's okay. And like, I'm not afraid. But like, I think he could see the panic and hear the panic in my voice. But as far as anybody else, my friends didn't know. And I have very close friends. We talk all day long. We, we hang out every week. And they had no idea.

[A]

Why. Why were you not telling anybody?

[B]

I think that it was like, I mean, I don't, I don't know if there was a shame behind it or if. I mean, I also just assumed it's Covid. Everyone's busy, everyone's got their own stuff going on. You know, the world's going to shit. Like, I didn't want to bother you guys with, you know, oh, I'm seeing stuff and hearing things. Like, I felt like maybe people would either tell me you sound crazy or that they would say maybe you go take a nap and like, you know, just get some, take a shower and just do some, you know, self care and whatnot. I, and I think I was just embarrassed that I was slowly Losing control of myself because I don't. I don't want to portray myself like that. I don't want to portray myself as. I don't have this together. I don't. You know, again, I'm PTO vice president. I've got four kids. I'm a mostly stay at home mom. I didn't want to have people thinking, Yeah, I didn't want to. I didn't want to have this problem. Exactly. I didn't want. This is not my life. This is not the life that I want. This is not me.

[A]

No. And I mean, it must have been so hard, Katherine, to go through this by yourself, I mean, and not know what was happening to you.

[B]

Yeah, I. I thought it was just like, I was making excuses for it. I was like, oh, you're hearing stuff because, you know, you're just watched Breaking Bad on TV and you're, you know, thinking of criminal stuff or you're thinking of. You just listen to a podcast or you just listen to something. It's like I was rationalizing it. Like, it's okay. Like there's a reason for it. Maybe the mailman just came and I heard him talking and it's okay. But then once it started escalating to now, I'm seeing figures walk by me regularly.

[A]

Oh, God, gas.

[B]

And I was fine with that because I was like, this is just my life now. This is okay. And this is. This is normal. And I could never make out faces.

[A]

You're accepting this?

[B]

I'm accepting it, yeah. I mean, like I said, I talk back to it. I'm seeing the shadows walk by when I'm cooking, and I just see a figure walk right by me. And like, stop. I'm just like, that's just how my life is now. I guess that's just what's going on. And then one day, my baby was. I had him sitting in a seat on the counter, buckled in, like, while I was cooking or getting lunch together or whatever. And we were just kind of playing with each other. And again, we were very bonded. We were. I mean, my baby, my son and I are still like just the absolute two peas in a pod. He is. I'm. I'm his best friend. He is the. Just the joy of our family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we are bonded and we're playing back and forth, and I see his face just start to shift, like he was aging rapidly into, like an old man.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then I just, you know, picked him up and I went and sat him in his crib and I just went in My room, and I just laid in bed and I cried and I was upset, and I. Then I knew, okay, this isn't just because I could deal with hearing some stuff. I could deal with some shadows and just. But now my baby is being affected. I'm seeing that. I'm, like, placing him in odd places. His face is changing. That scared me so bad, because now I don't know what my. What does my baby look like? What's going on. But it's like, it happens in a way that your reality shifts so seamlessly where you just become a part of your own reality, and you're comfortable with it. This is your reality. This is what's going on. This is my life now. And it's like, you know, like I've said, like, it's like you're in a dream and, you know it's a dream. Like you're having a lucid dream is what it feels like. It's a lucid dream that, you know is a dream, but, like, you're okay with it. Yeah, it's just what it is. It's like having two TV shows on side by side, and the sound is on, but you don't know which one it's on for. So you're constantly, like, checking to make sure, is this person real? Is this thing real? Is my baby really here? Cause then I would. I would have him, and I would just make sure that, like, okay, I'm really holding him. Like, I'm not. Because then. Then I started to get scared that I was gonna, like, accidentally place him somewhere. And I don't know. I have no idea. No idea.

[A]

Catherine, how long did this go on? Like, when did you. When did it become Enough is enough for you?

[B]

It was Enough is enough in. I think it was February of 21. So what's that, like, five months?

[A]

Five months? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. About four. About a solid four to four to six months. Four. Yeah, about. So it was February. Yeah, I. I finally told my husband, I said. Because then I. I did have some depression, but I've always had depression. I've always had mental health struggles my whole life. And I. That was fine to me. I knew I was eventually going to have to go back on my drug, like, for depression. I was so set on breastfeeding my son this time, and I didn't want to do any medication because my psych had told me that, you know, when you have your baby, let me know and we'll go back on your medicine. And I didn't want to be medicated, even with Breastfeed, even with breast milk, safe medication. I was adamant to wait as long as possible to go back on any medication. So I waited until February. And I told my husband, I said, said, hey, I think it's time. I need to make a call and get help. Get this. Yeah, and get help. Because this is not. I'm. I'm. It's a. I started to sit there one day and realize this is affecting me. This is not. I can't handle this on my own because I thought I was handling it because the clothes were getting washed and the kids were getting fed and the baby was getting fed, and I was, you know, taking care of my. My house, and I was still going to work a couple days a week, and my clients were fine, and everyone excited for me because we had our new baby. And I thought, okay, I've got it handled. Clearly, what I'm doing is working. It's fine. But you can just. When you sit and think, it started with one voice. Okay, now. But now my baby's morphing, and I'm forgetting where I'm placing him. And you can see the deterioration. And that was just over the course of a few months.

[A]

What did you do? Like, who. Who were you able to go to?

[B]

So, fortunately, because I have had mental health problems my whole life. I have an established psych. I have a amazing woman that I've seen for about 13 to 15 years now around there. So I already had. You know, I could. I messaged her on my chart. I said, hey, I think we need to have a meeting, and I would like to set up an appointment with you. And I talked to her, and I told her a fraction of what I'm telling you right now. And she said, hey, that sounds like postpartum psychosis starting, babe. And I said, it sounds like what? And she said, postpartum psychosis, you're getting misperceptions. You're hearing things that aren't there. You know, you're getting. Your mood is altering. And I. I never heard of this term. So immediately I Google it and I look it up, and I said, holy shit, this is it. This is what I have. I have everything. I have all of it. I have all of these symptoms. And that scared me. So she put me on a medication, I believe we started. I think it was Wellbutrin. And we started with that. And she checked back in a month later. And within that month, I noticed a reduction in symptoms. I noticed just my ability to disturb, decipher reality from the misperceptions. I Was able to. I was still seeing and hearing some stuff, but it was like, oh, that's. Clearly. That's what that is. That's fine. And even with just knowing that that's what it is made me feel better because there was finally an explanation for it. I stopped calling my husband and saying, oh, my gosh, are you here? Are you here? You know, I stopped texting my kids, like, are you. Are you in the house? And even just being diagnosed and having an explanation for how I was feeling made me feel. I mean, I felt so much better. And I remember I told my husband, I said, so. She says, I've got postpartum psychosis starting. And he said, really? And I said, yeah. And we were both shocked. But it added up perfectly. And with medication, it just kind of faded away. I was able to establish reality again and not be so, you know, questioning of what was going on. I never saw my baby's face look differently again. I never saw. I didn't have intrusive thoughts with him. I did not, thankfully, get any intrusive thoughts with my psychosis episode. That has to be just terrifying. I don't know what I would have done.

[A]

Yeah, especially when you're not in full control of that parallel universe that you're describing. The baby behind the couch, that sort of thing. And, you know, that really. The what ifs, Katherine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, have you been able to kind of. Kind of go through those what ifs or. Or how do you. How do you handle that? Because I know that must have been incredibly traumatizing of what could have happened.

[B]

I had a lot of time where I pushed it very far back in my mind. Like I said, this happened five years ago, and I'm just now feeling safe talking about it, because, I mean, you don't want to think about what ifs, but it is hard to imagine, you know, what if I would have put my baby somewhere under a pile of clothes and didn't realize it? And I would think about. I tried to push that out of my mind for so long because it's terrifying, because I can completely understand how I would have got to the point where I didn't know what I was doing and I didn't know where I was, and it's absolutely terrifying to think about what could have happened.

[A]

Katherine, when you heard about the Lindsey Clancy case, how did that affect you?

[B]

Oh, I have to severely microdose that entire case. It happened about two years after my episode, so I remember hearing about it on the news, and then I immediately. I have not so that was what, 20, 23? I have not read or heard anything about it until this month when I saw that it's finally in trial and everything. I've completely had to block that out because that makes me, I mean, I. So terrible for that entire family and what, you know, this did to their family. I mean, it killed their family. And Lindsay made a horrible, horrible choice. And she's not denying it. You know, she's admitting that she did that. I feel for everybody involved in it, and it. It's something that I have to like, severely microdose myself.

[A]

This is so scary.

[B]

It's so scary. And it's just a very. It's a very hard thing for me to watch. Yeah.

[A]

Catherine, you know, one thing that I was thinking about when we were planning to talk was that your story, the story of women going through postpartum psychosis is exactly what the defense for Lindsey Clancy wanted to get to trial. They wanted to have, have women just like you get on that, that stand and tell the jury. This was my experience in order to, not to validate even what Lindsay Clancy did, but to help us understand what postpartum psychosis is. You were going through it and you had never heard of it before.

[B]

Never. Never.

[A]

Do you think that we need to re examine how we're looking at it? Because right now we know in the Lindsey Clancy trial there will be an expert battle on whether or not she was suffering from psychosis.

[B]

I think that there's no such thing as bad education, and especially when it comes to women's health, maternal health, postpartum health. I don't know why you would want to not educate people on something. I, I'm fortunate because I already had a system set up for me. I had an established psych. She knew my baseline. She knew what was normal for me. She knew everything that I was going through. And I think that we just spend a lot of time buying the rocking chairs and getting the breast pumps and decorating the nursery, but we're not educating women, and we're not getting the opportunity to be educated on postpartum health, mental health, struggles, what to look for. I think that instead of, you know, registering for everything, I think you also should register for a psych. I think that we should all have an established psych when we are pregnant or before you get pregnant, if it's available. I know that healthcare is a pain. I'm not denying that. But I think that we should spend equal amounts of time caring for the mom's mental health. I think that we should Invest in having a good psych that knows where you're at so that when you do come to them and say, hey, I'm hearing stuff, they can say, oh, that's not like you. This is what we're gonna do. I had already had gene testing done to in the past, so I know what medications work for me and what don't. I had already had a list of medications that we had tried, some that didn't work, some that do work. And I'm so fortunate that I'm able to have that. And it just, it kind of breaks my heart when I hear people say things like, oh, that's not real. Oh, they're making it up. And I'm like, it's very real. I assure you. It's unfortunately very real for me. Like, I would never have known this. And I don't think that the first time that you hear about it, it should be at your diagnosis.

[A]

Well, no. And did she explain to you, did your psych explain to you how postpartum psychosis develops?

[B]

I mean, so the sad part is that I'm actively in psychosis at this appointment, so I'm fully reliant on my, my chart notes. And she, I remember her explaining to me that it is. I'm more, I'm a little more susceptible to it because I had prior mental health problems. She explained to me that, you know, it can just happen. Like, it doesn't have to be brought on by a traumatic birth experience, a colicky baby, lack of sleep. Those all can contribute to it. But plenty of women get it that, like me, that I. Like I said, I had the perfect baby. I had a supportive husband. I had time off of work. I, I had a, you know, we just moved into our nice new house. I, I mean, there was nothing that you could have blamed this on.

[A]

Well, and Katherine, I mean, now, you know, you, you put this post out on Facebook. What was it, a few days ago?

[B]

Like a couple, Like a week ago. Like a week ago.

[A]

Okay, so you put it out there. There are thousands of comments from women talking about, oh my God, I had this, or I know someone that had this, or I, you know, bonding over what this was like and, and trying to understand, like just going through the symptoms of, of what it was. Like, it's like just. It's an American horror story. It really is. It to me, it's like this is one of the most covered up, stigmatized things I've ever heard about.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was. The comments on my post were overwhelmingly, I think, supportive. There was a few people that, you

[A]

know, I saw them, whatever.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I don't care. It doesn't bother me.

[A]

But they were few and far between. Mainly it was women sharing their stories.

[B]

Really, it really was a very nice comment section, I will say a very supportive comment section. There were some women that had, you know, they said that they were in psychosis. And one woman in particular told me, yeah, I recognize, you know, this isn't right. I'm. I'm getting very intrusive thoughts of hurting my baby. I'm getting very intrusive thoughts of. Of just alternate realities, visuals, you know, the auditory hallucinations, all that stuff. So she told her husband, she said, we need to go to an inpatient facility. Take me there. And the husband and her, she said, they went to the inpatient facility, and the inpatient facility said, oh, okay. Well, since you recognize that you have postpartum psychosis, we can't help you. We can only help you if you are in denial or don't recognize that you are in psychosis, because now we get to treat you outpatiently. And she said, what are you talking about? I. I'm begging you to please hold me here. I don't want to go home to my family. And they said, well, because you were so brave and you recognized it and you are aware of your psychosis, we can treat you outpatient. So that was shocking to me, because I had always told my husband, hey, if I get too bad or if something happens, we can go somewhere. Surely that can be an option. And until I read her comment on my post, I was. I thought that that was an option for everybody, that if you walked into a place, surely that they would say, we're not gonna let you go home. This is an emergency. And I think that that's what Lindsay was doing is she was saying, you know, please help me. Please help me. And I don't. I don't know what else you're supposed to do when you aren't getting the help that you need, and you're, you know, begging for help, and you're brave enough to go into a place and ask for help. And that's the standard of care that we have, it seems, and it's awful.

[A]

Well, I mean, Katherine, thank you so much for sharing your story, because in the. You know, if this helps one family go through this, if one family hears this, that recognizes just a part of the story that you're telling, you know, because the Lindsay Clancy trial is the worst of the worst, right? This is, like the worst case scenario, worst case scenario, it's gonna. It's gonna traumatize everybody that hears it for sure. Yeah. But if they hear your story, that. Wait a minute. There is a way forward when, you know, when I hear this, I hope that's what that comes from. This. I hope so too. I just. Thank you for so much for agreeing to talk to us. I hope that you keep this Facebook post alive and people, people keep on coming back to you, coming back to the story so that we can learn something. So I. I'm just really grateful that you could talk to us.

[B]

Thank you so much. I am very appreciative that you let me tell my story. So, yeah, I do hope that it helps somebody and somebody recognizes it and it is a medical emergency. It is not. If I. Again, if I would have known about it before I was diagnosed, I would have contacted. I wouldn't have let it go on for months. I would have probably contacted my psych immediately. Because it is a medical emergency. It can deteriorate fast, rapidly. And the sooner that you can get help, and the sooner that you can have somebody that you can confide in, like your spouse, your partner, your family, your friends, your doctor, therapist, the sooner that you can get help.

[A]

Thank you for listening to Katherine's story. I think it is invaluable that we have more knowledge on what postpartum psychosis is. And drop a comment below. I want to hear what you're thinking. I read all the comments. Be sure to, like, subscribe and turn on your notifications. We will be updating this story.