Murdaugh Latest: Defense Bombshells and a Lawsuit?

Summary

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Criminally Obsessed: Murdaugh Latest – Defense Bombshells and a Lawsuit?

Overview

In this episode (May 19, 2026), host Ann Emerson delves into the dramatic developments in the Alec Murdoch case following the South Carolina Supreme Court’s decision to grant Murdoch a new trial for the murders of his wife, Maggie, and son, Paul. The episode features an in-depth interview with Dick Harpootlian, one of Murdoch’s lead defense attorneys. Key topics include allegations of jury tampering against Colleton County Clerk Becky Hill (now facing a $600,000 lawsuit), the Supreme Court’s ruling and its legal ramifications, hints at new evidence for the defense, and the human and political dimensions shaping the proceedings.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Supreme Court Ruling & Jury Tampering Allegations

• Becky Hill’s Role: The Supreme Court found Becky Hill deprived Murdoch of a fair trial through alleged jury tampering. This finding led to the new trial, despite no one wanting to “do it all over again” ([00:15]).
• Allegations Elaborated: Dick Harpootlian recounts the discovery process, detailed juror accounts, and suggests that Hill’s actions went beyond minor missteps, including direct influence on jurors and manufacturing evidence (a fabricated Facebook post) ([13:11]–[16:04]).
  • Quote: “Ms. Becky told us, you can’t, can’t believe him.” – Harpootlian, recalling juror testimony ([14:26])

2. Defense Strategy: Fresh Evidence & Legal Tactics

• New Evidence: Harpootlian repeatedly asserts the existence of new, significant evidence to be revealed at trial, though details are withheld for strategic reasons ([01:09], [09:06]).
  • Quote: “We’ve got some great stuff.” – Harpootlian ([09:09])
• Forensic Failures: The defense criticizes law enforcement’s crime scene processing—lack of fingerprints, DNA, or proper handling of physical evidence ([10:07]–[12:17]).
  • Quote: “It was the worst crime scene processing in the history of man. No fingerprints, no DNA were taken.” – Harpootlian ([10:07])
• Debate over Motive and Evidence: Defense challenges the logic of the state’s motive theory and points to the lack of direct forensic evidence ([04:48]–[07:24]).
  • Quote: “The thought that he would put a shotgun to the head of his son and execute him didn’t...I mean, people do horrible things sometimes. But...the complete lack of any forensic physical evidence, the lack of any statement...” ([04:48])

3. Legal and Political Consequences

• Implications for Becky Hill:
  • No charges for Hill yet, but possible future prosecution for attempted jury tampering, aided by South Carolina’s lack of statute of limitations ([19:11]–[20:20]).
• Speed of Retrial:
  • State officials, particularly Alan Wilson, are portrayed as leveraging the case for political purposes, with defense anticipating no trial until at least the following year ([22:00]–[22:48]).
  • Quote: “Let’s call BS on that...This case can’t be tried this year” – Harpootlian ([22:00])

4. Logistical and Strategic Questions about the New Trial

• Change of Venue: Defense expresses deep concerns over finding an impartial jury in Colleton County, hints at requesting a change of venue ([26:05]–[27:04]).

  • Quote: “Does anybody believe that he could get a fair trial in Colleton County?” ([26:10])

• Jury Selection and Sequestration: Defense insists on individual voir dire and full jury sequestration for fairness, given massive publicity ([27:16]–[28:13]).

• Murdoch Testifying: Whether Murdoch testifies again is undecided—a “game day decision.” Defense may opt to present little or no evidence, forcing the state to meet its burden ([29:00]–[30:03]).

5. Personal Reflections and the Human Dimension

• Murdoch's Reaction: Harpootlian describes Murdoch’s disbelief at the new trial (“He just does not believe that he’s finally gotten something to go his way.”) and the psychological toll on the Murdoch family ([02:41], [33:32]–[33:45]).
• Family Perspective: Buster Murdoch recently had a baby and is “glad for his dad,” but family is traumatized by prospect of retrial ([33:32]).
• Addiction & Aftermath: Discussion of Alec’s opioid addiction, withdrawal challenges, and odd post-murder behaviors ([34:38]–[35:26]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Defense Determination:

  • “We didn’t give up...I mean, because, you know, I’d say to any young lawyer or any lawyer listening to this: don’t give up.” – Dick Harpootlian ([01:55])

• On Motive:

  • “The motive...doesn’t hold water. I mean, the woman comes in and says we can't find the $750,000 fee for the law firm...so he wants to ride around...with Paul...and then execute him?” – Dick Harpootlian ([04:48]–[07:24])

• On Law Enforcement Evidence Handling:

  • “It was the worst crime scene processing in the history of man. No fingerprints, no DNA were taken.” – Dick Harpootlian ([10:07])

• On Becky Hill:

  • “It's her actions that got it reversed. Millions of dollars were spent by the state. Millions. Now you're telling me somebody commits that kind of conduct...and you're not gonna...you're just gonna say...do nothing?” – Dick Harpootlian ([21:02])

• On the Role of Bias:

  • “Those jurors were being told by Becky Hill, don't believe him. The defense is going to try to trick you.” – Dick Harpootlian ([29:20])

• On Justice and Process:

  • “The rule of law, unlike in other places around the country, is...alive, healthy. Here, our Supreme Court…decided it based on the rule of law. And they did that.” – Dick Harpootlian ([31:26])

• On New Possibility for Justice:

  • “Well, it may be that what we've learned since the last trial, if we can incorporate it in this trial, we may. We can go up...and maybe get to the truth.” – Dick Harpootlian ([33:24])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Background & Breaking News on Jury Tampering:
  [00:00]–[01:42]
• Defense Explanation of Persistence & Murdoch's Reaction to New Trial:
  [01:55]–[03:51]
• Explaining Lack of Motive & Forensic Evidence:
  [04:48]–[07:54]
• New Evidence Hinted — No Details Disclosed:
  [09:06]–[09:27]
• Crime Scene Handling Critique:
  [10:07]–[12:17]
• Discovery Process of Jury Tampering Allegations & Juror Interviews:
  [13:11]–[16:47]
• Legal Arguments: Precedent and Character Evidence:
  [17:01]–[18:45]
• Prospects for Becky Hill Prosecution:
  [19:11]–[21:02]
• Speed of Retrial & Political Maneuvering:
  [22:00]–[22:48]
• Procedural Next Steps – Change of Judge, Discovery, Evidence Testing:
  [23:08]–[24:27]
• Suspicion over Unprosecuted Related Figures, e.g., Eddie Smith, Becky Hill’s Son:
  [25:31]–[25:49]
• Change of Venue Discussion:
  [26:05]–[27:16]
• Sequestering the Jury and Fairness Concerns:
  [27:16]–[28:13]
• Murdoch Testifying: Legal Strategy:
  [29:00]–[30:03]
• Financing the Defense:
  [30:13]–[30:52]
• Murdaugh Family Perspective & Trauma:
  [33:32]–[34:14]

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Tone & Language

The tone throughout is compelling, urgent, and at times acerbic—reflecting both Ann Emerson’s direct interviewing style and Harpootlian’s seasoned, sometimes sardonic candor. Both are frank about the intrigue, exhaustion, and personal costs swirling around the case, and unflinching in their criticism of the state’s evidence and handling of the trial.

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Conclusion

The Alec Murdoch saga enters a volatile new phase, with a retrial granted on grounds of jury tampering and the defense pledging new bombshell evidence. The episode highlights systemic failures, fraught human stories, and the tangle of law, politics, and public opinion that defines this true crime saga. As the legal chess match resumes, lingering questions about justice for Maggie and Paul remain at the heart—and public scrutiny is higher than ever.

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Transcript

[Ann Emerson]

So maybe Becky Hill thought Alec Murdoch was her ticket to fame and fortune. But now he's suing her for $600,000 for allegedly jury tampering. You can't make this stuff up.

[Narrator/Host]

With the South Carolina Supreme Court's ruling, it has been adjudged as a matter of state law that she deprived Alec of his constitutional rights. Deprived. Deprived him of a right to a fair trial. And as a result, we've got to do it all over again, which nobody wants to do.

[Ann Emerson]

Alec Murdoch is getting a new trial for the murders of his wife Maggie and son Paul. I sat down with Dick Harpoutlian. He's one of Alec Murdoch's defense lawyers, and he says he never gave up on proving Alex innocence. Hey, everyone. I'm Ann Emerson, and this is Criminally Obsessed. Be sure to like and subscribe and

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

turn on your notifications.

[Ann Emerson]

We have the latest in the Murdoch updates Dick shared with me, detailed accounts of what he says Becky told jurors. And get this. For the new trial, Dick says they've got new evidence.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Do you already have new evidence?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

That needs to be presented.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yes. Got some great stuff.

[Ann Emerson]

Look, plenty of people feel that the jury got it right with or without Becky Hill allegedly interfering with the jury. But Dick says he. He's defending an innocent man. So if Alec didn't shoot his wife and son to death, who did?

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Do you have any idea who did this?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Who?

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah, specifically, I had a lot of

[Ann Emerson]

questions for Doug, and he answered them all. So let's get into it.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I'm so glad I could come here and talk to you. Got to ask you, you got this dropped in your lap yesterday morning. Wednesday morning. What'd you think?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

We didn't give up. You know, typically when somebody's found guilty, you say, okay, we're gonna do the appeal. But we continued because we tried for six weeks and come back in three hours. Something. So, you know, we began a quest, found the truth about the jurors, which required us to ride around rural Carrollton county for a couple of months, knocking on juror doors. And then to have what happened yesterday, it's just extraordinary. I mean, because, you know, I'd say to any young lawyer or any lawyer listening to this, don't give up.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I would assume you. You've had a conversation with Alec Murdoch about this yesterday. What did he say to you?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

You know, what's interesting about this is after. After. After the final. The Supreme Court argument, which we thought went well for us.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Well, everybody did well, and it did.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And it only did. We Said, we, we had a conversation with him, Jim and I did. And we said this. He asked this question. They went and our brief said this and they bought. You sound like they bought that. And he said, he just said, I just don't believe it. I said, what do you mean? He said, not a single decision in this case by any judge at any time has gone my way. He's right. So when we got the opinion yesterday, we had it emailed to the warden, who had it delivered to him, which was very kind to the Department of Corrections. And he said, I've read it, I understand it. I just don't believe it. I mean, he just does not believe that he's finally gotten something to go his way.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

That hope was gone.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Oh, totally gone. And he's, I mean, accepted his fate that he was going to serve time for something he didn't do. Now he also accepted the fact he's going to do time for something he did do. He pled guilty to it.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Absolutely. Admitted it.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Admitted it. Regrets it. All those people, by the way, have been made whole. More than whole, some of them. So it's not like he damaged anybody for life. But he has insisted he didn't kill Maggie and Paul. And again, there's no evidence to convince me he did.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So he doesn't feel vindicated right now. He's in shock.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

He does not feel vindicated.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

We knew that you were going to go after this with everything you had. And everybody was like, the big question was, why are you not giving up? Why are you not just saying, okay,

[Dick Harpoutlian]

well,

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

this is the way this is going to land.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I've never had. I mean, I've been doing this a long time. An innocent client convicted ever, 50 years. Ever. Now, I've had plenty of guilty ones but found innocent, but never the other one. Every other way. And of course, as you know, as a prosecutor for 12 years, and in that instance, you try to make sure you don't convict innocent people.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Sure.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I mean, that's your job, is to make sure that you only prosecute people you honestly believe are guilty. It's none of this. Throw it to the jury and see what they decide. So, I mean, Jim and I felt strongly based on everything we knew. Forget the fact that we spent a year with Paul and Maggie and out working on the Boatcase, saw them every other week, watched their chemistry dynamic and just if you watch that, you would never believe that Alec killed Paul. Now, men kill their wives all the time, but Paul was the apple of his eye, okay, and showed genuine affection whenever Whenever I was around him. So the fact that the thought that he would put a shotgun to the head of his son and execute him didn't. Now people, you know, people do horrible things sometimes. But that combined with the complete lack of any forensic physical evidence, the lack of any statement, the lack of any video, the lack of any confession to, to the, to the police or anybody else, the lack of a motive. This, this. I mean if you dissect that motive, it doesn't hold water. I mean the woman comes in and says we can't find the $750,000 fee for the law firm. Not money stolen from clients. Wasn't even about that. And he'd been asked that two times in the past for several hundred thousand dollars. Things didn't add up. Certainly he stole it from the firm, but he put them back before. I mean it was no muss, no fuss, never been a problem. So you've got the motive. He hears about that at 2 o' clock and goes home and decides to execute his wife and son because he thinks he's going to get caught. There's nothing imminent, nothing going on, not that day anyway. So. And there's a video of him and Paul an hour and a half before he allegedly executes him riding around the property looking at trees they planted and yucking it up over one of them that Alec planted that was bent over. I mean it was just. I mean he decides at 2 o' clock to go execute him and so he wants to ride around the property with Paul, lets him go down to the, the. The dog kennels and with wide open. And, and it doesn't make. Well, it doesn't make sense. And from having been a prosecutor there's not a single shred of evidence other than he lied to the police about being down there near.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Did he lie to you about that too?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Until we got. Well, first of all I can't tell you attorney client discussions but suffice it to say we were all surprised but. So he lied about it. He had an explanation about why he lied about it but that's not enough to convict him of murder. He. He lied being. And by the way the state says oh there moments before Maggie and Paul were killed. They don't know when they were killed.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

They know when they're, when they were stopped activity stopped on their cell phones. But everyone testified coverage down there was spotty at best. The oftentimes be an hour you couldn't get a call in or a call out.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So you are defending an innocent client.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I think I am.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I am. And again, you've read my book. I prosecuted a serial killer put in the electric chair. I sponsored as a senator a bill to provide the firing squad.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I interviewed you about it.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I'm not some left wing liberal, you know, anti state. I believe there are people that need to be off the street. I believe where there's the evidence to convict them, then the state ought to do that. There's no evidence. Here is a. Is a sense because any. Let me say this to you. He stole 10 or 12 million dollars from clients, many of whom were vulnerable. That makes him a very bad man. But there's a difference between stealing and. And killing huge.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Are you going to have new. I mean it sounds like you've got new evidence that you're looking for right now. But do you already have new evidence?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

That needs to be presented.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Can you tell me what it is? No new witness.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Here's the thing. Whether you want to tell the other side or not, they're listening. They watch it. Okay. So. So I can't. We're not going to tell that. We. But we've got.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

When does that come out in discovery?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

No, you're not trial.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

You're going to wait. Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yeah. You got some great stuff.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

You do. Do you have any idea who did this?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Who?

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah, specifically who and. And, and with whom.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

No, not a specific. Well, I really don't want to go into that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I really don't want to go into that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

You don't have to, but I. But I have to ask.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

You have to. That's your job to ask. It's my job to obscure.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay, that's all right. But you are obviously looking in other directions.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I would just say this. Jim and I have traveled to other places in this country and interviewed people about this murder and we're not. I mean somebody comes up with some crank call about I know this or I know that. We don't get in an airplane and go fly somewhere. Okay, look, it was the worst crime scene processing in the history of man. No fingerprints, no DNA were taken. It's not like they tried them and didn't find any. They didn't take them. They were tire marks that went from literally Maggie's body in the grass off out the back. No picture. Well, there's a picture from a distance where you see him and people that testified saw him. They never tried to match him to any tire kind of trial kind of vehicle. What. I mean if those tracks don't match Alex car, it certainly raises a reasonable doubt. They've never found the guns.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I know where those guns are.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, they've never found the guns. They have a guess that they were fired by. By weapons that were owned by one of the Murdaughs, maybe. Maybe Paul, but that's it. There's no. The shotguns. The shotgun was not matched to anything. I mean, it could have been any shotgun. And the ar. The. The blackout. Could have been any blackout. You know that they, they had a guy testify that the shell casings. He couldn't say that they were the same. He could say they're similar. And there's. Most of the scientific community reject the shell casing matchup. It used to be 20 years ago. It was a sure thing. It's become less and less credible. So they don't have weapons, they don't have ballistics matches, they don't have DNA, they don't have fingerprints. You know, there was a bloody finger footprint right next to Paul's head. Turned out to be a Carlton County Sheriff's Department. So that's how they were processing the scene. They were walking all over.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Well, and the house wasn't even. I mean, there were 25 people wandering around the house.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And, you know, and here's the point, a good forensic processing of that scene. Did they look for hairs? Did they look, you know, for any DNA, any DNA that didn't match Paul or didn't match a Murdoch? Did they attempt. No, they didn't attempt to do that. I mean, there's no witness that can say, we looked around for hair. We did. I mean, did the murderer open and close the. Open the feed room door? Was his fingerprint his or her fingerprints on the doorknob? They never checked.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

When you started chasing these allegations that Becky Hill had been tampering with the jury, when you started hearing this hearing issues, that there were issues out there, did it feel like a. Like a wild goose chase at the beginning?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, we got a call from one of the jurors, an alternate juror, who said, you know, Ms. Becky rather, large African American woman.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I remember her.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Ms. Becky said some things that. That she shouldn't have said. We said, well, can we come see you? So Jim Griffin, myself, Phil Barber and Holly Miller got in the car on a Sunday afternoon and drove to Carlton County. And I can see in my mind's eyes clear as day today. She was in a trailer of the mobile home. They had a. She had a pit bull chained up out front on a tree. No grass, just. It was almost. It was dark. It was getting dark. And we Go in and she's cooking collards in a big bowl and she's got either her son or grandson there and she's cooking the collards for, for that little boy. And she would. And she's cooking. Talking. We talked a little bit and then I said, well, what did Ms. Becky say? She said, I believe it was, and Jim knows this better than I, but it was something like Ms. Becky told us, you can't, can't believe him.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Can't trust what he said.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Can't trust what he said. We said what. I mean, she is not supposed to comment on anything. And so we then go, okay, we got to talk to them all.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

So for the next two months we got in the car and drove around rural and there's some funny stories there and of course there's some jurors that not only wouldn't talk or cooperate, but wouldn't come to the door or they, they looked out the window and then call it said, if you're not off my porch in five seconds, I'm going to call the police and get you arrested. Some were very cooperative and ultimately Myra Crosby, there were two other jurors, Myra Crosby, the egg lady.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Had. Had hired Joe McCullough, a lawyer here in Columbia and she was made available and her story was much more detailed. And you know, the fact that Becky Hill took her out of the jury room, took her to her office and just browbeat her about, about Murdoch and she, and, and convinced, I tell you at the time, convinced Myra that. That the Murdoch were coming after her. Yeah. So I mean that's fear.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

That's scary.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Absolutely. And then when she couldn't totally turn her, we find out that there's, you know, it was Becky that turned up with this Facebook page alleging it was a discussion between Myra and her ex husband about the case.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And we turns out that it was actually between a man in South Georgia and his mother in law. Had nothing to do with the case.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Had nothing to do.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

She was selling that to the judge and us one morning in chambers and then later on, you know, the renters, allegedly, but. And if you peel the onion on that, it gets even more sinister. But we had enough, we thought in September of 24 to file the motion for the new trial. And then Judge Toll had a hearing. The great thing about Judge Toll's order, which we just got reversed was her factual findings were devastating. That Becky had told the cork of court from Bamberg or Barnwell who told her, you know, I'm writing this book, she'd Begun writing the book before the trial.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I got a great book for you.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And if he were found guilty, it would sell more books. So, I mean, we've all that together and she got the facts right, she just got the law wrong. And that's what the Supreme Court said yesterday.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah, I mean, it was, it was, it really came down to Remmer Greene. It really did. And you know who was touting that from the beginning was your partner, of course, Jim Griffin. You know, and he immediately got shot down. I remember sitting there when he got shot down by Justice Toll, who said, we're not doing Remmer here.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Right.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

And I thought, oh God, this is going to the U.S. supreme Court. That's what I thought.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And she was citing Greene, which was written by Chief Justice Kittredge.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

It clearly did not say what she said it said. And Kittredge, of course, cleared that yesterday.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

From a legal standpoint, this is going to be taught at a law school.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

It is an interesting. I mean, there's so many different levels and the court didn't address any of the evidentiary stuff except the financial crimes yesterday. But in South Carolina, and the Chief justice said it during the arguments, so called 404 evidence, evidence of other crimes. It's presumed, it's not coming in because this, you should convict somebody based on evidence of the crime.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And they made this, they basically made this character evidence by putting the Satterfield kids up and the other victims up. And they really, I mean, they said, they said yesterday, don't do that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So they did say don't do that. But there will be some in there, though.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, there may be, but I mean, again, if they, they're, if they're going to. They. I know. I'm pretty sure they probably at least try to get the, the 750 or 20 or whatever, what thousand dollars of, of law firm funds that, that. I mean. Right. Okay, consider motive. It's motive to commit the crime that day.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And we're going to fight like hell to keep all of that out because there's no evidence that there was any chance of that coming. Anything happening that day that would justify him doing anything, let alone kill Maggie and Paul to distract, Create sympathy.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Well, before we get too far away from Becky Hill, I just want to ask you. Because she got off lightly. She's serving.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

She may not be off.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay. That's what I wanted to ask. Should she serve jail time on this? Well, you know, could she still.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, the, the prosecutor who handled it for the Attorney General indicated there was not Enough evidence to convict her beyond a reasonable doubt. The facts that the Supreme Court found yesterday is that she said things to jurors with the intent to persuade them to vote for guilty. Now, the only question toll. Had she found the same thing was did it influence a juror and under remmer. For our purposes, you don't have to show that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

If she's charged with attempted jury tampering, I think she's got a problem when

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

those have not been. Those have not been addressed.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Correct.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay. That's what I thought, too. And I wanted to clear that up, because that could still. I mean, it just felt very damning if she had had to do that hearing after what just happened yesterday, I would feel like it would be very different. Out.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, and understand there's no statute of limitations in South Carolina for any crime.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right. Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I think maybe two small crimes. So if a new attorney general coming in. Well, first of all, I would want to see Alan Wilson go back right now and look at that and say, I mean, it's a felony. You can. Attempted felonies are. I mean, it's as if she. If she walked into a store with a gun in her hand and said, give me all your money, and the clerk behind the counter said, no.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And they walk out. That's. That's attempted armed robbery.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I mean, it's just classic.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So interesting.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I think that she needs to be looked at for that. I think the attorney general who. Who referred to her in his press conference right after the.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

You know, it's Becky Boo.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Remember that? And said, oh, Becky Boo. She was just great. Couldn't have done this without her. You know what? He's right. He couldn't have done it without her. So I think he owes the public and the people a chance to have that issue examined. Remember now, but for her actions, assuming he still would have gotten convicted and we'd still have all these other legal issues, that trial would have had some validity. It's her actions that got it reversed. Millions of dollars were spent by the state. Millions. Now you're telling me somebody commits that kind of conduct and cost millions of dollars to the state, and they're not gonna. And you're not gonna. You're just gonna say, you know, do

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

you think this is gonna go to trial quickly? No, they want it to. No, they've already said they wanted to.

[Ann Emerson]

They said, I want a speedy trial.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Let's. Let's call BS on that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Alan Wilson is running for governor. The primaries, three weeks from this coming Tuesday he knows from a legal standpoint, this trial can't go. This case can't be tried this year. And we can go through all the logistical reasons why it can't, but he wants to use that on the campaign trail, you know, rather than saying. And by the way. The way the court addressed those 404 issues, they said, we're not going to deal with them. If that's all they had to deal with, we're confident they would reverse this case on that, what he did.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

So he ought to. He ought to not go around promising things he can't deliver.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So you think it would have gotten reversed with or without Becky Hill? It could have gotten reversed on the financial crimes alone.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I believe so.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Interesting. So you're gonna. You're gonna walk this in slowly?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

No, we're not walking it slowly, but let's think about what has to happen. Supreme Court decided yesterday. Okay. They now have to find a judge.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Judge Newman can't do it.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

No. Retired. And I suspect that they're gonna want a fresh set of eyes on this.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Sure. I would. I would. I would not ask him to do it again.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I wouldn't ask him to do it again. And there are plenty of very competent. Sure. But I don't think they would appoint anybody that wouldn't agree to do it.

[Ann Emerson]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I mean, you know, this is not.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

It's a huge lift.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Huge, huge lift. And a lot of time. And I mean a lot of. And a lot of focus.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yes. And so every word.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

You know, maybe they announce it two weeks from now, but let's say they do. The first thing we have to do is have a status conference with the judge and say we need some time to do a couple things. One is serve discovery requests again on Sled and make sure. And we. We hope they were not forthcoming. In a number of ways, we want them to be forthcoming. Number two, we never had a chance to test the. The organic matter found under Becky's fingernails.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Maggie's.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I mean, Maggie's fingernails. Correct. All the sweat lab said it was. It was. All they could say was a human male.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

So I'd never sent it to the FBI. Never had any. Any real. I mean, no offense to sweat. Yeah, no, take that back. Offense to sweat. Something that important, that sophisticated should have been sent to the FBI or some other very sophisticated DNA. We want to see what that. And that'll take a while to do. We want to go back and look at what phone records sled got and which ones they didn't get. Why has Eddie Smith never been prosecuted.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I would really like to know.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

We want to know that. And we want.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I asked that one week ago.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yeah, well, we want a hearing on that. And does he have a written plea agreement? We haven't seen one. We haven't seen a deal. Written deal. But he.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I just been told it's a pending investigation.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Of what?

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I don't know, the investigation that they're still working on.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Remember, the folks investigating at Sweatt had a vested interest in this case being affirmed. So, for instance, when they're investigating Becky Hill, they don't want to. They surely would not want to find something to help Alec Murdoch get a new trial.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And we've got questions about Jeffrey Hill.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

He hasn't been. That's Becky Hill's.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I know.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Yeah. That hasn't wrapped up either the wiretapping charges.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

So, I mean, you know, these guys want to prosecute, retry.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I'm going to ask about that.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

They haven't taken Eddie Smith to trial. They haven't taken Becky Hill's son to trial. And you got to ask yourself why? And what's the hurry now on Alec? Why go. I got to get it done by the end. It's pure, pure political poll.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I heard you talking about, like, just already talking about a change of venue for this.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, they got to appoint a judge. We then, I mean, does anybody believe that he could get a fair trial in Carleton County? I mean, what ought to happen if they're in a hurry to do this is they ought to agree to a change of venue and see if we can't come up with a county. I mean, the sort of. The case law typically is you go to a county in an adjoining county. But what's that? Beaufort, Jasper. I mean, we're Charleston. Well, no, that's not an enjoying county. Okay, so you got a. In the same circuit. I'm sorry.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Oh, okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

In the same circuit.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So change of venue. That's got to be decided. Of course. I'm not saying, you know this. These are things that I understand that the system.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And it's not something that's going to. Unless we agree to something. You got to have hearings. You know, they're going to say, well, we need to. Need to try to pick a jury. And if we can't get a jury here, nobody wants to go back to Walterboro to try this case.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Well, I mean, that's basically what they. That's what I was hearing at the presser with the prosecution saying they were going to. They were like, oh, well, we'll Just be back in Carleton County. That's what I heard. Now, whether or not, I mean, obviously

[Dick Harpoutlian]

we're going to ask for individual voidir, we don't get that. Except in death penalty cases, the judge asks the questions and Newman did not ask a number of the questions we wanted to ask.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

So, I mean this should be a dialogue between the lawyer and the juror so we get some sense of whether. Do you know anything about the Murdoch case? No. Really? Okay. Or where. Do you know something? What do you know? And can you put that out of your mind and base your verdict on this case about what you hear in this courtroom and reject all that? The jury needs to be sequestered with the. I mean, I tried pee Wee Gaskins 40 something years ago and we sequestered that jury because we didn't want them influenced by the media at the time, which was two newspapers and three television stations. I mean now, now, I mean if, I mean, I'd like to see them not have. Be able to communicate by be sequestered. No cell phones, no computers.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I have to say, like just based on how many people know about this case has. It's gotta be the. One of the most famous cases is up there with O.J. simpson. It just says everybody knows who Alec Murdoch is. And if they don't, if they have not made up their mind if they are going to be an impartial juror for you, do you believe that that is actually an advantage for the defense?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I do because I don't think they have any evidence, any real evidence.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I mean, just by the fact that if they haven't looked at what's there and they haven't made up their mind on what they already know about this case, does that not give you an advantage if they're.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

They really don't know anything and the motive evidence is either disallowed or cut back dramatically.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Tell me, is Alex going to take the stand again on his own defense?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

That always is a game day decision. Okay.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Does he want to.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Do you think that is a game day decision?

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So we're not going to know until literally that day?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I won't know until that day.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I mean, is this.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

You think he should after what happened last time?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, two things. Everybody said, you know, several jurors afterwards said he wasn't believable. Remember those jurors were being told by Becky Hill, don't believe him. The defense is going to try to trick you. Watch his body language. Look at the way he testifies. They were front end loaded to not find him credible. That's number one. Number two, there's a world, a scenario in which we don't put any evidence up. I've done that several times. It's the burden of proof is on the state to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And oftentimes, you know, most of my clients don't like me doing this. You don't testify, we don't put anything up. And the advantage of that is we get last argument under the rules. So you get the last thing the

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

jury hears, you just go after all of theirs. Got it. Who's going to be paying for Alec's defense? Alex paid us for the last trial.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Does he pay? He doesn't have any money now, does he?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

He does not, but Jim and I, and this is not something, this is our first time doing this. Somebody hires me or him to represent them in a criminal case and you have to do it again. We do it again. That's part of the. I mean, if you, they pay you a huge amount of money and you know, and you get it dismissed to. The women are here, you don't give them the money back, you know.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

So if you got to do it a second time, we'll do it a second time. We've been blessed with financial success in other cases. We'll do it here.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

So you'll keep on going?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Absolutely. And by the way, I don't want to sound arrogant about this, but I've been doing this for almost 50 years and I enjoy doing it. I enjoy being a trial lawyer and I enjoy whether I was prosecuting or doing defense work, trying to, trying to make sure that we operate within the confines of our Constitution. And this is one of those cases. Makes you feel good about that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Well, when you see what has just transpired, Absolutely.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I mean, the rule of law, unlike in other places around the country, is, well, alive, healthy. Here, our Supreme Court, I mean, this guy, many people think he's the most despicable son of a. That's ever lived. And probably some of the Supreme Court justices do, but you got to put that aside and decide it based on the rule of law. And they did that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I think everybody agrees with that, that that had to happen. But it's just for the people that did believe that this was. That they had caught the, the murderer. For those people, that, that was a heartbreaking. But do you think that there is going to be a different verdict that comes out in this trial? Do you truly believe that he's going to get off?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I think there's an opportunity for that. Now, you know, I don't predict who wins football games and I don't predict, you know, who's going to win an election. And I never say, oh, he's going to win. Well, you gotta make a good chance to win. I think we have a good chance to win now or the. Let me rephrase that. The state has a good chance to lose. We don't win anything.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Are we getting to justice for Paula, Maggie here? Because that's really what this was all about.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, it may be that what we've learned since the last trial, if we can incorporate it in this trial, we may. We can go up. We should. Several of the people who talked of us talking about, talked to us, have talked to sweat nothing. They don't have an interest in seeking the truth. Their interest is to make sure somebody gets convicted for it. And hell, they got one in the bag. And they decided that night that he was the one. And everything that's been done since then is focused on that.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay, well, I think that that is exciting to think that Maggie and Paul are going to get some justice and we're going to get to the truth of what happened because. I agree. I'd like to see the narrative expanded on both sides.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, and hopefully that'll be the byproduct of this. It's not going to happen before the end of the year.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Can I ask you how Buster's doing? Have you been in touch with him?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yeah, he's fine. Had a baby, got married. I mean, I think that's sort of an important.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

But what did he say about this?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, I mean, he's glad for his dad, but he. He and the rest of the family had PTSD from the last trial.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Right.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And the idea they're gonna have to go through that again is not something that they're embracing. They, I mean, all of them, all of them believe Alex innocent, Maggie's parents, Alex brothers, Buster, they. I mean, I spent a year, just a year with Maggie, Paul and, And. And Alec getting ready for the boatcase.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Sure.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

I mean, the.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

I mean, everybody I've talked to has said the same thing about that. Whether or not that means he did it or not. But the, the bottom line is that's what I've asked everybody that knew them very well, like Blanca, people spent all our time with and said there were no marital issues, none of at all. So that's what makes this even harder.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Yeah, I mean, it's. Now, did Alec perhaps behave in a way after the murders, which would raise Questions? Absolutely. He's on drugs. I mean, we took him down, or had him taken down to a drug rehab place in. Yeah, in Atlanta or General. Florida. And then he moved to Atlanta. And I talked to the doctor. Worst case of withdrawal he'd ever seen, physically. I mean, he. He was. They had to keep him medicated to keep him from dying. I mean, so no question he had a huge addiction. And I just think. I mean, the amazing thing is every time I met with Paul and Maggie and Alec, he apparently was on drugs. I couldn't tell.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

It's so sad.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Couldn't tell.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Well, I would love to stay in touch with you. I know that you're going to be locked down, working.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Well, I mean, until. There's not much to do. Until we don't have. We will have subpoena power. We will have the ability to use some investigative tools. Getting.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

When will that start?

[Dick Harpoutlian]

Gotta appoint a judge. Okay. We've got to have a pretrial hearing a few weeks. I mean, the Chief justice may take a month before he makes an appointment. He may appoint somebody tomorrow. We don't know.

[Interviewer/Podcaster]

Okay.

[Dick Harpoutlian]

And he doesn't call us in. Terrorists.

[Ann Emerson]

Even though this was a major win for Alec Murdoch, he's still serving time in prison. He's serving 27 years after pleading guilty to financial crimes in state court. And he's serving a concurrent sentence in federal prison. That means at the same time for 40 years for charges including conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud. Tell me something. Now that he's getting a redo on the murder charges, do you think Alec could get a dead different outcome in this new trial? Drop a comment below and let's talk about it. And don't forget, I'll be at Crimecon in Vegas at the end of this month. That is less than two weeks away. I'm hosting a live panel with Blanca Trubiate Simpson, the Murdoch housekeeper. What an incredible time to have her as a guest. I hope you can come if you can. There are still tickets. Go to the Crimecon website and get 10% off. All you have to do is put crimly obsessed one word in the promo code and I will see you there.