“Oh, You Like Serial Killers?” Chilling Questions Rex Heuermann Asked Date

Summary

Criminally Obsessed Episode Summary
Episode Title: “Oh, You Like Serial Killers?” Chilling Questions Rex Heuermann Asked Date
Host: Ann Emerson
Release Date: April 8, 2026

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Overview

In this gripping episode, Ann Emerson of "Criminally Obsessed" speaks with Nikki, a woman who claims to have gone on a date with accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann in 2015. Nikki shares chilling details about her encounter, the conversation’s unsettling turn, and how her instincts—shaped by a fascination with forensic psychology—may have saved her life. The episode delves into the psychology of predators, the dangers facing sex workers, and the role of intuition in survival, while exploring the broader implications for victim advocacy and criminal investigation.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. How Nikki Met Rex Heuermann

• [01:45] Nikki was active on "sugar baby" websites due to limited job options after a possession arrest, and that's where she connected with "Rex."
• Rex was pushy about meeting at his house first, which Nikki refused, insisting on a public location.

  “He was very adamant about me wanting… Wanting me to come, like, directly to his house in Massapequa. He didn't want to meet in public. Very weird.” – Nikki [01:58]

• She took multiple safety precautions, such as providing a friend with Rex’s photo and details before the date.

  “I showed it to a friend before I even went on the date... just in case I turned up missing.” – Nikki [04:50]

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2. The Date: Red Flags and Chilling Comments

• [05:41] On meeting Rex, his physical presence and demeanor deeply unsettled Nikki.

  “He scared the crap out of me... He's a monster. He is massive. And his presence is, like, strong... He gave me a bad vibe.” – Nikki [05:45]

• Conversation quickly turned from casual to disturbing when Nikki discussed her career goal of becoming a forensic psychologist.

  “As soon as we got to what I wanted to do, he, like, immediately took interest and was like, oh, you like serial killers?” – Nikki [07:22]

• Rex engaged in detailed, hypothetical discussions about serial killers, focusing heavily on the Gilgo Beach murders, particularly the case of Shannon Gilbert.

  “He wanted to, like, talk about all the hypotheticals. Like, how do you think they got rid of the body? Why do you think they haven't been caught? What do you think happened to Shannon? She was the only one he ever mentioned by name…” – Nikki [09:15]

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3. Disturbing Specifics: Third-Person Confessions

• Rex described in uncanny detail how bodies might be disposed of at Gilgo Beach—including the use of burlap sacks and navigating the marsh at night, closely paralleling actual evidence.

  “He's like, if they're in burlap sacks… you tread through the marsh, nobody will see you at night.” – Nikki [09:50]

• Nikki recognized that Rex’s knowledge seemed less like speculation and more like personal recollection, further alarming her.

  “…when he talked about it, it was like he was from recollection…reliving it in his mind.” – Nikki [12:29]

• He theorized about Shannon Gilbert’s death, suggesting a “killing party”—details that made Nikki even more uncomfortable.

  “He hypothesized that she was not killed alone, that it was done almost as like a killing party, essentially like a hunt.” – Nikki [11:06]

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4. Narrow Escape: Refusing to Leave with Rex

• Rex became increasingly insistent that Nikki accompany him to his house, suggesting she leave her car and phone behind—a move she adamantly refused.

  “He wanted me to…leave my phone and car and go in his car with him back to his house. And he had shown me an envelope, like, as if it had money in it.” – Nikki [14:18]

• Nikki texted a male friend to meet her at the restaurant door, ensuring a safe exit.

  “I had him meet me…at the end door of the restaurant…And I went into his car and left. And Rex went his own way because…there is a man there to meet me.” – Nikki [14:42]

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5. Aftermath: The Painting and Prison Letters

• Nikki saw a painting recovered from Rex's home—depicting a bruised blonde woman—which resembled her. She speculated it represented the violence he hadn’t inflicted on her.

  “I wonder if he painted that because he didn't get the chance to kill me. So he painted what he had wanted to do…” – Nikki [15:47]

• Rex reportedly corresponded with serial killer Keith Jesperson (the “Happy Face Killer”) in prison, seeking advice and discussing pleas.

  “He said that him and Rex had been riding each other...He told Rex, he said, just plead because it would be easier for him.” – Nikki [17:03]

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6. Nikki’s Reflections: Surviving and Speaking Out

• Nikki explains she confided in friends that she believed she’d dated the Gilgo Beach Killer, but feared going to police as an ex-addict and sex worker.

  “They're not going to care. They're not going to listen. So…it wasn't like an option for me to go to the police, but I told everybody.” – Nikki [18:52]

• She emphasizes the stigma sex workers face and the need to humanize victims.

  “A lot of times because of them being sex workers, what happened to them is overshadowed. Their names don't matter who they were…And literally, like, I want the world to, like, look at me. Like, I was an addict…And now I have a 4.0 GPA at a top university.” – Nikki [22:19]

• Reaction to her story is mixed, with some accusing her of fabricating for notoriety—a charge she forcefully rejects.

  “Who wants to go on national TV saying they were an escort who dated a serial killer and were a drug addict? Like…this is not clout you really want.” – Nikki [23:22]

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7. Rex Heuermann Case Details and Nikki’s Ongoing Trauma

• Nikki notes Rex cited a number of victims higher than the official count.

  “He…when he was naming…victims, even now, they are not near the number he named.” – Nikki [21:18]

• She expresses lingering fear, blocking out much of the memory and avoiding Gilgo Beach.

  “I haven't been to Gilgo. I don't think I ever want to go…every time my stomach drops because I know…Like, I could have been another one of the girls.” – Nikki [24:17]

• Nikki is considering attending Rex’s hearings for closure and academic interest, speculating on his motivations and the likelihood of him “telling his story” post-conviction.

  “I just so badly want to look him in the eye because he knows I knew and…I think he invested work in me being his next victim.” – Nikki [25:04] “He wants to tell his story. I think he takes a lot of pride in what he did.” – Nikki [28:02]

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8. The Psychology of Serial Killers: Nikki’s Unique Perspective

• Nikki intends to pursue a career studying the minds of serial killers, believing childhood experiences are often pivotal, though she doesn’t have insight into Rex’s yet.

  “Some killers are born, some killers are made, but with Rex, I wouldn't know unless I actually learn about his childhood experiences…” – Nikki [28:31]

• Ann Emerson praises Nikki’s journey and hopes she’ll one day bring professional insight to cases like Rex’s.

  “I can't think of anything more fascinating…I appreciate your time today.” – Ann Emerson [28:54]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He’s the one date that, like, I remembered so strongly because…He scared the crap out of me.” – Nikki [05:45]
• “He said, ‘oh, you like serial killers?’” – Nikki recalls the turning point [07:22]
• “He…described how he got rid of the bodies in third person; it was like, too…it was just too much, you know what I mean?” – Nikki [09:12]
• “I think I just went on a date with the Gilgo Beach Killer.” – Nikki [10:41, 18:21]
• “Who the hell would be like, let me tell the whole world how I used to be a heroin addict and an escort.” – Nikki [23:22]
• “She credits being a true crime fan for giving her the instincts to stay safe that night.” – Ann Emerson [29:21]

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Important Timestamps

• 01:45 – Nikki shares how she met Rex Heuermann.
• 05:41 – First impressions and red flags on the date.
• 07:22 – Conversation shifts to serial killers and the Gilgo Beach case.
• 09:45 – Rex describes hypothetical body disposal in disturbing detail.
• 14:18 – The attempts by Rex to persuade Nikki to come home with him.
• 15:47 – Discovery and significance of the painting at Rex’s house.
• 17:03 – Rex’s correspondence with the Happy Face Killer.
• 18:21 – Nikki tells friends she believes she dated the Gilgo Beach Killer.
• 21:18 – Nikki reveals the number of victims discussed by Rex exceeded police numbers.
• 22:19 – Stigma, victim-blaming, and the importance of telling her story.
• 25:04 – Nikki considers attending Rex’s hearings for closure and potential academic study.
• 28:31 – Nikki’s ambition to formally study the psychology of serial killers.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a harrowing, firsthand account of a brush with a presumed serial killer, blending personal trauma, survival instinct, and a call for empathy toward marginalized victims. Nikki’s experience stands as both a warning and a powerful testament to resilience and transformation, while also highlighting flaws in how society and law enforcement treat sex workers and survivors. Ann Emerson’s nuanced, compassionate storytelling makes this conversation both informative and deeply moving.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone. I'm Ann Emerson, and this is criminally obsessed Rex Heuermann is the Gilgo beach serial killer. He pleaded guilty to strangling eight women on Long Island. Young, petite sex workers. We don't know why, but get this. I spoke to a woman who says she could have ended up just like those women did, tortured, murdered, and left on the side of a road. And she says she went on a date with rex back in 2015.

[B]

He asked what I wanted to do, and I said I wanted to be a forensic psychologist. And that's when he was like, oh, you like serial killers?

[A]

The things he brought up on that date raise all of the red flags.

[B]

I told everybody I think I just went on a date with the Gilgo

[A]

Beach Killer, like, and subscribe, so you don't miss any of the updates. Nikki, thank you so much for joining me today. It is so nice to meet you. Tell me a little bit about. About yourself. Like, you. You were just saying that you were. You're a student right now. You've. You've gone into clinical psychology, is that right?

[B]

Yeah. So I'm. I'm in clinical psychology right now. My ultimate goal is forensic psychology. But right now I'm at Stony Brook in the dual degree fast track program to get my BA And MBA at the same time. So ever since, like, fifth grade, I was like, die Hard, watching Michael Bottom, hbo, Autopsies. And my plan was always to get into some form of foren. And I had decided on forensic psychology. And that's actually what started the whole conversation with Rex to begin with, was that I wanted to be a forensic psychologist in the future.

[A]

So how did you meet Rex Heuerman?

[B]

So I was on, like, sugar baby websites, like, Seeking Arrangements. I was on Craigslist, like, a couple other ones. He had messaged me. It's been, like, 16 years. So I couldn't tell you exactly which website he had messaged me on. I do think it was Seeking, though. And we had talked for a couple of days. He sent a picture. And you know what's funny is that that picture, I had it for years, and I would show people, and I was like, this is the Gilda Beach Killer. And, like, nobody believed me. But we had spoken for a few days online through there, and he was, like, very adamant about me wanting. Wanting me to come, like, directly to his house in Massapequa. He didn't want to meet in public. Very weird. And I was like. I took a lot of precautions. I was like, absolutely no way. We have to meet in public. First. And that's where it all began.

[A]

So how old were you?

[B]

I would have to say I was probably very early 20s, because when I was 18, 19, I went away to college, partied a little bit too hard, and became an addict. And I was addicted for about one year. I had possession charge for opiates, so it was, like, impossible to get hired. I was a student when I got arrested, so I couldn't get financial aid or go back to school. So my options were limited, and I ended up in the world of being a sugar baby.

[A]

And so Sugar Baby, like an escort service, like, go out on dates with guys sort of thing.

[B]

So it's a little different with, like, sex work. A lot of times it's. They get a hotel room and they sleep with multiple guys a day. Um, especially sometimes with. Escorting to a sugar baby is more like, you find one wealthy guy. You both know it's a mutually beneficial relationship, and you're you. They basically give you money and take care of you until they, you know, are bored of you.

[A]

And this is what, Rex. This is how he portrayed himself to you?

[B]

Yeah, he said he had money, he was an architect, he could take good care of me.

[A]

And when did you decide to meet up with him?

[B]

We had spoken for a few days. We had decided to meet in Port Jeff at a restaurant, because I was like, I'm not. I don't know, Nassau county at all whatsoever, and I am really locationally challenged, so I need a GPS card.

[A]

So you were like, I don't want to come to your house?

[B]

Yeah, I was like, I don't want to. I didn't even want to come to, like, an area I was unfamiliar with. So I said, poor Jeff, and we agreed to meet there.

[A]

I met at a restaurant.

[B]

Yeah, we met at. I can't even remember the name of it now, but it's. It's like, right there or something.

[A]

I saw it in another story. Was it Steam Port? Steam.

[B]

Oh, the Steam House.

[A]

Steam House, yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I. I'd seen it in another story that you had said that. So you met at the Steam house?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Before you met him, you asked for a picture of him. Am I right?

[B]

Yes. I showed it to a friend. Before I even went on the date. I said, this is who I'm going on a date with. He's an architect. He. In the city. He lives in Massapequa. I gave her all the info just in case I went. I turned up missing because, you know, precautions and they, you know. So when he had gotten arrested, she recognized a picture of him on the news from the picture I had showed her and was like, oh, my God, it was him. And yeah, did you have any.

[A]

I mean, hindsight's 20 20, but. Is there a reason. Did you normally show pictures of your dates to other people to say if anything bad happens?

[B]

I usually would even take pictures of their license plate without them knowing. Okay. If I was getting into their car, anything like that? Yeah, I. I took a lot of precautions. I was very careful about it.

[A]

Well, Nikki, what was he like when you met him?

[B]

You know what's crazy? Out of all the sugar daddies I ever had, he. He's the one date that, like, I remembered so strongly because he was like, he. He scared the crap out of me. Like, literally, first of all, he's like six foot six. He's a monster. He is massive. And his presence is, like, strong, if that makes sense. Like, when he came in, he gave me this big tight hug and like a handshake and it was very like, stern and like he. He gave me a bad vibe, like right from the beginning, if that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, but. And when you sat down, like, we were ordering dinner, I guess, like sitting down for drinks and dinner.

[B]

Yeah. So I don't believe they had a bar at the time. Because, you know, it's funny, I read in a magazine that you can order a drink if you're scared and they get you a cab and sneak you out. And I remember being in there and not seeing a bar to order that Dr. So I do remember that part.

[A]

So you were already thinking, like, I am uncomfortable.

[B]

Well, no, I thought that, like at the. Get towards the end of the date, I remember that particularly. But when we sat down, we just started like, small talk. Like, he was telling me what he does for a living. He has kids, said he was divorced. He asked what I wanted to do and I said I wanted to be a forensic psychologist. And that's when he was like, oh, you like serial killers? And I was. That's when we started talking about different serial killers. And it started the whole conversation.

[A]

How long have you been sitting there, like chit chatting? Like, probably like.

[B]

Like 15 minutes. Not even like, we. It was like all the small talk. And as soon as we got to what I wanted to do, he, like immediately took interest and was like, oh, you like serial killers? I wanted to talk about them.

[A]

Did you even get to dinner yet? Like, had you even ordered dinner yet?

[B]

No, I don't. I don't believe so. I think at that point it was just that we ordered an Appetizer.

[A]

And that's all you had done so far. And he launches into, oh, you're. You want to be a forensic psychologist? Does he? So. So where does the conversation go from there?

[B]

He's like, oh, you're a true crime fan. Like, you like serial killers. He was, like, very excited about it, which, like, for me, not a lot of people want to talk about that. They find it weird. Like, I tell them what I want to do for a living, and they're like, okay, well, I guess somebody has to do it. But, like, he got excited about it. So it was like, oh, finally I have somebody I could talk to you about. Like my shared interest. It was when he started talking about Gilga that it was not shared interest. It was.

[A]

It was too much.

[B]

Yeah. So he brought up different serial killers, and, like, we talked about them and it was very like, you know, when you're just interested and you know facts about them and, like, you're just talking about it, it's very third person. That's how it was. He had a big interest in this one serial killer, Robert Henson, who would hunt the women in Alaska. He would fly them out there on dates and hunt them. And there was another killer we talked about, but we talked about that. And then he said, do you know about the Gilgo beach killer? And like, I'm. It's Long island, of course. So I was like, yeah, of course I do. And he was like, got really excited. But, like, when that was at the point where, like, his whole body language shifted, like, it wasn't. It was weird. Like, he came really close in and was, like, super excited to talk about it.

[A]

And it was like, he'll go beach, specifically.

[B]

Yes. And he wanted to, like, talk about all the hypotheticals. Like, how do you think they got rid of the body? Why do you think they haven't been caught? What do you think happened to Shannon? She was the only one he ever mentioned by name, by the way. Like, different questions like that. He was trying to make it seem like third person interest and hypotheticals, but it wasn't. Like, when he described how he got rid of the bodies in third person, it was like, too. Like, it didn't. It was just too much, you know what I mean?

[A]

So he was. He was describing, like, the way the bodies were in.

[B]

Like, he. He said. He said, how do you think they got rid of the bodies without being seen? And I was like, honestly, I have no idea. And he's like. He's like, if they're in burlap sacks, I Guess camouflage sacks. He's like. And you tread through the marsh, nobody will see you at night. And the crazy part about that is, is I had said this to. During an interview and a cousin of one of the victims. Sadly, she. When. When I saw her, I was like, I want to show you something. And she had showed me GPS coordinates where before the killings took place, it was just a regular marsh. And after the first killing took place, there was an actual trail through the marsh where Shannon was found, as if somebody had treaded through that marsh.

[A]

So Shannon Gilbert, which is very interesting for our viewers to hear this, too, is that, you know, Shannon Gilbert was the one that kind of launched all of this, right, With. With Gilgo beach serial killer in general. Like this. This. Because that's how they found the Gilgo 4. They were looking for Shannon Gilbert, who was just a missing woman. She was a sex. He was just missing. And. But they've never actually linked the serial killers to Shannon Gilbert. Right.

[B]

I believe that's because she was the only killing that. I believe more than one person participated. I think he did it on purpose because those people would protect him in the future, like hiding DNA evidence until the FBI gets involved. Stuff like that. He went on clot for a long time for a good reason. I'm not gonna say what he told me at dinner in third person about what happened to her, because certain names were still a lot of living people. But his hypoth, he hypothesized that she was not killed alone, that it was done almost as like a killing party, essentially like a hunt.

[A]

So he was theorizing this at dinner

[B]

with you about what actually happened. He theorized that the reason she was found, the way she was found, is because she got away. And when. By the time they got her, the sun was coming up, and he had to get rid. Not he. They had to get rid of her quick. It was his. What he believed happened.

[A]

It was his theory of what he believed had happened.

[B]

His theory? Yeah.

[A]

That's crazy, Nikki. So you're listening to all this. You're listening to all this at a

[B]

dinner, and she's the only one he mentioned by name.

[A]

You're this young woman at this dinner with this guy, and he is going off about the Gilgo Beach.

[B]

I have an interest in serial killers and understanding their minds because not. Not to, you know, explain it away, but to understand it, what. What causes it. You know what I mean? And it was different. He. When he talked about it, it was like he was from recollection, you know, like when you're, like, reliving it in your mind. Have you ever seen somebody when their eyes kind of turn up and you could tell they're picturing it in their head and rel all over again? It's very different from just, like, talking about something you read in a paper. And that was the difference for me. And that's what really scared me and made me be like, this is not a situation I want to be in. And when we were getting towards the end, he started getting very adamant about me coming back to his house with him.

[A]

So how long into dinner is this? Like, how. How far into this are we?

[B]

I don't think dinner was more than an hour total, to be honest. And towards the end, because he just wanted to do a quick meet and get me to his house, you know, like, he wasn't trying to have. Be out in a public place and be seen for too long. Yeah.

[A]

We weren't doing dinner and drinks and dessert and.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So this was other reasons.

[B]

When. When it got towards the end, he was, like, very adamant about me coming to his house. And I was like, I don't know the area, it's dark. I don't want to get lost. I don't want to have to drive back super late. I'd rather not. And he was, like, getting upset. Like, you tell. He was, like, upset that he put the effort in to come all the way out here and I wasn't going to go back with him. And the weird part was, was when I said that about not knowing where I was, he was like, why would you take your car? We're going to leave your car here you come my car. And I was like, I'm not getting in a stranger's car and going to an area I don't know, like.

[A]

Like, none of this is good.

[B]

He wanted me to, like, leave my phone and car and go in his car with him back to his house. And he had shown me an envelope, like, as if it had money in it. Like, oh. Like, look, I've got money for you to, like. As if that would tempt me into just being like, yeah, forget my car and fall in love. I'm gonna come on with you.

[A]

Yeah. And you were like, no, this is never gonna happen. What did you do? How did you. How did you get yourself out of this?

[B]

I texted a male friend, and I had him meet me. Not in the parking lot, directly at the end door of the restaurant. And, like, where. When I walked out, he was right there. And I. I went into his car and left. And Rex went his own way because I'm. You know, there is a man there to meet me.

[A]

Yeah. So. But you. You told Rex. Look, this isn't gonna work out. I'm not interested. Yeah, this isn't going anywhere.

[B]

Yeah, I actually wonder about that painting they found in his house. So he never painted any victims. There's no paintings of all the other. But there was a painting found of a blonde who was, like, beaten and tortured.

[A]

So this was a painting found at Rex's house. It looks like a portrait of a blonde woman with black and blue eyes, bruises. I'll put it here on the screen. Nikki posted a picture of it on her TikTok from a New York Post article published on July 17, 2023. It was taken as police for removing evidence from the Heuerman home.

[B]

And I. I wonder if he painted that because he didn't get the chance to kill me. So he painted what he had wanted to do because I was looking at it and I had the blonde side part and this. The. The way my nose is shaped and the thin eyebrows. And I saw it. My stomach dropped. I was like, oh. And then. Hadn't been able to find it from. From once and once and once. And then yesterday, it actually popped up on Tick Tock. And people were saying, oh, it's probably. My goodness. I don't want to get her name wrong, but I know her last name is Bartholomew. You know that victim. It starts with an M. Is it Melissa?

[A]

Melissa. I think you're talking about Melissa.

[B]

But some people were trying to say, oh, maybe it was her. It could be her.

[A]

Here's.

[B]

He didn't paint any other victims, though. Why would he only paint her? I find that odd. I have a feeling that he. He might have taken out the frustration of not being able to heal me into painting what he would. I mean, he's having conversations from prison with the Happy Face Killer, asking him for advice. Wait, what?

[A]

The Happy Face Killer. Keith Jesperson is a serial killer who murdered at least eight women across multiple states. Handwritten letters were released from Rex to

[B]

Keith, the Happy Face Killer, telling his family member about how they had been writing each other. Oh, my God. Yeah. He said that him and Rex had been riding each other. And he told Rex, he said, just plead because it would be easier for him. Less their sentence. He'll have it easier in prison. Then Rex was asking him advice on what prison was like and stuff. Like.

[A]

Yeah, that's unbelievable. Tell me, like, when you. When you were that age. This is 16 years ago. What did you look like? Because they certainly talked about sort of this, this type.

[B]

I was kind of a bombshell when I was younger. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm almost 40 now. I'm old, so I, I don't look the same. But when I, back then, I was, I was very petite. I was like 115 pounds soaking wet. I, I was a platinum blonde. I, you know, I was very, I was a very attractive young girl. I'm not gonna like.

[A]

All right, you were quite petite. You are quite petite.

[B]

I'm, I'm five foot four, and I was at the time, like around 110, 115 pounds at most. Like a size one.

[A]

Yeah. And, and tell me, like, when you heard, you know, you lead this experience, what are you telling your friends? Your, you know, I told everybody.

[B]

I think I just went on a date with the Gilgo Beach Killer. Literally everybody. All the news outlets have verified it. They've called the people and they were like, yeah, she told me this five years ago. She told me this eight years ago. I've been, I've been saying it for years. And people are like, well, why didn't you go to the police? I committed a crime. I'm, I'm out doing sex work. I would go back to prison. There is no me going to the police and telling them anything because I, I'm, to them, I'm just a sex worker and an ex drug addict. They're not going to care. They're not going to listen. So it wasn't like, yeah, it wasn't like an option for me to go to the police, but I told everybody. I made it pretty well known.

[A]

No, and I, I, I've, I've heard you say that before, that, you know, you, you told everyone you could, like, I, I believe that this is the, the guy. So, so tell me what, where were you, what happened when you heard that Rex Herman had been arrested for these crimes?

[B]

I was at my house and I was like on TikTok, scrolling through it, and I saw that he had the, that he was arrested, but I didn't see the picture yet. It was just like an article about how Gilgo Beach Killer had been caught, but he had given me a different name at dinner beside, he said Rex, but different last name. And when I turned on the TV in the news and they were showing the pictures, I was like, oh, my God. The one picture of him in the baby blue button down with the khakis is like identical to what he wore to dinner. So it was like, literally Staring at the person who walked into that restaurant. Like, when I saw him, I was like, oh, my God, it was him. I knew it was him. Like, it was almost like I couldn't believe that I was right. Like, that I was right about it, because everybody made me feel like I was crazy for thinking it.

[A]

Well, because it does sound, you know, like to. To hear that you. That you had gone on a date with. With someone that would be accused of multiple murders. I mean, is it even conceivable how close you were to. To becoming a victim?

[B]

Yeah, I think. Honestly, I think had I not had an interest in forensic psychology the way I have my entire life, I probably would have not known that. The difference between, like, you know, talking about something, you know, facts about and reliving it, like. Or. Or, you know, like, I. I wouldn't under. I would take it as just a guy hypothesizing. I think. I think a big part of it was, like. It just didn't sound right. It sounded too much like he did it when he spoke about it. I don't know. I feel like that just.

[A]

It's like you knew because you had. You had just spent just enough time in this, like, world kind of being interested in this, that you knew there was something that just was too close for comfort.

[B]

Just off. About him. Yeah. And, like, when he was naming, like, the amount of victims, even now, he. They. They are not near the number he named. So it's.

[A]

What do you mean? Tell me what you mean.

[B]

Well, as far as I know, they only have four bodies tied to him right now.

[A]

They have seven, possibly another one that we're hearing about. That's where we're at right now.

[B]

Yeah. From what I know is somewhere between 8 and 11.

[A]

Yes. And I think that there's more, that there's the Jane does.

[B]

And I think. I think he traveled, too. I don't think he just stopped killing when he traveled. I think that made it even easier for him.

[A]

Well, we know that he lived in Vegas and in, like, I'm in South Carolina, he was down. He's had properties down in South Carolina as well. You're right. I mean, there's a lot of concern. I mean, and when you. When you got your story out there and sort of told people. Yes, that was that, you know, the man who was arrested is the man that I went out on that date with and had this creepy experience. What's been the reaction to you?

[B]

It's very mixed. Some people are like, you know, I think it's amazing that you came out with your story. I feel like you're humanizing the victims because a lot of. A lot of times because of them being sex workers, what happened to them is overshadowed. Their names don't matter who they were. It doesn't matter just because of a job that they did or the situation they were in. And. And literally, like, I want the world to, like, look at me. Like, I. I was an addict. I was stuck in that situation. And now I have a 4.0 GPA at a top university. Like, there's room for growth and change. And I feel like without the. A lot of the reaction is they feel like it humanized the victims and gave them more of, like, a face and a name. But then there's also a lot of people that'll be like, oh, she's making it up because she wants the clout. Like, who wants to go on national TV saying they were an escort who dated a serial killer and were a drug addict? Like, who the hell would be like, let me tell the whole world how I used to be a heroin addict and an escort.

[A]

Like, right,

[B]

this is not clout you really want. Right?

[A]

This is not the 15 minutes of fame that I was looking for.

[B]

And honestly, when I made the video, I thought just my friends and family would really. I didn't know, like, everybody would see and be like, oh, my God. So I was like, more making it to be like, ha. Told you. I told you guys.

[A]

Well, I mean, I think it's an incredible story about how you. How you have turned your life around too, Nikki. I mean, and I think it does give a lot of hope to maybe women who are a bit. Who are still in the industry that are looking to make a change in their life too. You know, I think there's a lot to be said for that.

[B]

So, yeah, a big part of what I want to do is to show people in prison, like, they can come out and start over. It's not the end. You have a chance.

[A]

100 and. Do you ever go to Gilgo beach now? Do you ever go to that area?

[B]

No, I've never went there to begin with. I'm like a very Suffolk, don't really travel unless it's like, to the city kind of person. So I. Yeah, I'm not. I haven't been to Gilgo. I don't think I ever want to go. A big part of it, too, is I've blocked a lot of it out since then because it is like, I do see him, and every time my stomach drops because I know Like, I could have been another one of the girls. And like, I got very lucky and I think had somebody not been able to meet me at that door and I walked to my car alone, I think it could have been a much different story.

[A]

Yeah. And are you going to go to court? Are you planning on, on seeing any of this through with Rex going, going to these hearings?

[B]

I was thinking about going to one of his, you know, court dates to see if he, if he remembers me, because I just, I wanna, I, I just so badly want to look him in the eye because he knows I knew and I, you know what I mean? And one day, like, I, when I'm doing my, my study in the minds of serial killers, I'm gonna sit across from him and I'm gonna say, like, hey, do you remember me? And from the steam room. And I bet you he will. I think he invested work in, in me being his next victim. And I don't think you forget that.

[A]

Can I ask you, have you seen any of the planning documents or any of the, any of the evidence that's come out, any of that, the really scary stuff?

[B]

No, I've kind of, I read when it initially came out, some of his planning. After that, I've kind of stayed away from, just because again, it's like, very, like, okay, like, that the bad kind of stuff could have happened to me, and I, I, I don't know, it just bothers me to even, like, really get too much into the media with him.

[A]

No, I don't blame you at all. I would probably caution you because it is the darkest thing. I, I have to be honest. Like, I dreamt about it last night. It scared, it's scary stuff, you know, and I work in this field. I've, I hear stories all the time, but every once in a while it seeps in because it just feels so evil, to be honest.

[B]

Well, he, he had a very dark, very bad vibe about him. Like, even there was no, like, sitting across from him, you get uncomfortable. Like he's somebody that, like, he makes you feel uncomfortable. And I, I, you know, I think him going into a room where he's shackled and chained and there's a guard sitting there with a gun is a little different than being in a restaurant alone in your early 20s as you

[A]

walk away from this, I mean, like, if you get, if you get to see any of the hearings, you know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. When you, when you sort of watch what happens, Nikki, because I do think this is going to Be fascinating for, for us. And I really appreciate you taking the time to tell us your story today.

[B]

Yeah. I'm shocked about him considering pleading guilty, though, because when he requested individual trials for a victim, I think that was almost because he wanted to relive every detail of each victim. And that gave him the ability to. I think after he talked to the smiley face killer and he told him just plead guilty, it'll be easier. He's gonna go ahead and do that because once that happens, then he can talk about it without it being a third person. We're gonna see the real wreck. It's not going to be this quiet, not talking to cops, no detail. I think he's, he's gonna plead and within a certain period of time start talking to journalists or somebody.

[A]

And he wants to tell his story.

[B]

Yeah, I. He wanted to tell his story before he was caught. I think he wanted to talk about it since before he was arrested because I think he takes a lot of pride in what he did.

[A]

Yeah. And when you look at his, I mean, you've been delving into, like, the psychology behind him. What, what do you see from his, from, from what you've seen in, in his past? Is there anything that you can point to right now?

[B]

No, I want to know more about his childhood. I wanna, I wanna delve into that. And that's why I want to be able to study him. Because I, I do think there's a big link between things that happen in your childhood that lead there. I mean, I think some killers are born, some killers are made, but with Rex, I wouldn't know unless I actually learn about his childhood experiences and adolescence and so on.

[A]

Well, I can't think of anyone I would rather read their, their, their story from than you. Nikki, if you end up, if you end up on this and going from being a, a potential victim of the Gilgo beach serial killer to someone who, who studies these killers. I can't think of anything more fascinating. So I appreciate your time today.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

How incredible is Nikki? She says one day she wants to sit across from Rex Heuerman and ask him if he remembers her. And it's pretty incredible. She credits being a true crime fan for giving her the instincts to stay safe that night. I want to know from you at home, have you ever been in a situation that made your true crime alarms go off? Let me know in the comments. Make sure you're subscribed. As we wait to hear what happens next to Rex Heuerman.