Siders Family: Forensic Psychologist Says Grandparents Were Catalyst

Summary

Criminally Obsessed — Siders Family: Forensic Psychologist Says Grandparents Were Catalyst

Host: Anne Emerson
Guest: Dr. John de la Torre, Forensic Psychologist
Release Date: July 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

This gripping episode dives deep into the shocking case of the Siders family in rural Ohio, where 16 severely neglected and malnourished children were discovered living in unbearable conditions. Host Anne Emerson discusses the investigation with forensic psychologist Dr. John de la Torre to understand the psychology behind the abuse, the roles of each adult charged, and why the grandparents—particularly Gary Siders Sr.—are seen as the architects of this “house of horrors.” The conversation unpacks generational cycles of abuse, family power dynamics, and the path forward for the traumatized children.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Shocking Discovery

• Conditions in the Home:

  • Sheriff and first responders were profoundly shaken by the filth and the children’s living conditions.
  • 16 children confined to a 12x12 ft room—smaller than a one-car garage—with “livestock kept in better condition.” ([00:00-02:08])

• Adults Involved and Charges:

  • Four adults arrested: Elizabeth Siders (33), her husband Gary Siders Jr., and his parents Gary Sr. & Christina Siders. All charged with child endangerment. ([00:47–02:08])

The Grandparents as Catalysts

• Dr. de la Torre’s Assessment:

  • Argues that Gary Siders Sr. was the driving force: “It's his house, it's his family, it's his children, it's his grandchildren. It's all of these people that he feels authority over that he can treat as objects.” ([01:32], [09:33])
  • Abuse was not a new occurrence, but an entrenched family dynamic.
  • Long-term practiced manipulation and grooming of family members was necessary to maintain this abuse. ([03:13–06:35])

• Hierarchy and Manipulation:

  • The grandparents involved younger adults (Gary Jr. & Elizabeth) and “groomed” them into complicity through sustained abuse.
  • This required “planning” and “sophistication” in avoiding detection and silencing victims. ([03:13–05:40])

“You have to have done this for a long period of time to know what works and what doesn’t... The only two people that would have that skill set would be the two elder Siders.” — Dr. de la Torre ([05:27])

Abuse as a Cycle and System

• Elizabeth Siders’ Role:
  • Dr. de la Torre distinguishes between legal and psychological victimhood.
  • Elizabeth, 15 when marrying Gary Jr. (then 18), was not the mastermind but had choices made for her by abusive adults.
  • She became both victim and participant under extreme coercion and trauma. ([15:48–17:21])

“She did not enter into this relationship... wanting to abuse 16 kids... It happened because Gary Senior decided he was going to abuse his family members.” — Dr. de la Torre ([17:21–18:40])

• Nature and Motivation of Abuse:
  • Not just sexual—driven by power, control, and objectification.
  • “Elizabeth was just an incubator... a baby mill for them,” not seen as a person.
  • Four adults engaged in sexual contact under the umbrella of abuse; incestuous elements expected. ([11:23–12:40])

“All of these people... that he feels authority over that he can treat as objects.” — Dr. de la Torre ([09:33])

Barriers to Escape and Social Failure

• Why Didn’t They Leave?

  • Dr. de la Torre points to isolation, lack of resources, and psychological manipulation.
  • “Could they physically do it? Sure. But the trick of the abuser is making it so that in your mind it’s not possible.” ([19:00-20:06])

• Keeping the Abuse Hidden:

  • Gary Sr.’s experience allowed the family to avoid authorities—moving when suspicion arose.
  • The “nose blindness” of the adults and children to filth and stench became a grim symbol of their normalized suffering. ([21:03–21:37])

Long-Term Damage and Hope for the Children

• Potential for Recovery:
  • Dr. de la Torre is sober about the children’s prognosis: recovery requires immense, ongoing psychological support.
  • Critical needs: physical safety, nourishment, stability, and—above all—trust and staying together as a family unit if possible. ([22:15–23:39])

“Just being in a place where there’s love and trust, that’s probably the best that we can do for them right now.” — Dr. de la Torre ([23:20])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Shock of the Scene:
  "The looks on the kids' faces as they seen the light was unique... the filth, the condition of it... I’ll probably never see that again." — (Vinton County Sheriff, quoted, [00:26])

• On Planning and Generational Abuse:
  "The ways in which this thing gets covered up requires planning... It’s usually someone who’s been doing it for a long period of time." — Dr. de la Torre ([03:13])

• On Elizabeth Siders' Victimhood and Accountability:
  “Being a victim in the law is not the same thing as being a victim in reality... She needs to be held responsible. But she’s not the mastermind behind any of this.” — Dr. de la Torre ([17:21])

• On the Children’s Future:
  “Trust is the most paramount element... If you can’t even trust your parents or your grandparents... who do you trust?” — Dr. de la Torre ([22:24])

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] Introduction to the Siders Family case
• [01:32] Dr. de la Torre: Grandparents as primary abusers
• [03:13] Planning and covering up the abuse
• [05:49] Abuse as learned and maintained behavior
• [11:23] Incest and objectification of Elizabeth
• [15:48] The origin of Elizabeth's involvement and victimization
• [19:00] Why family members didn’t/couldn’t leave
• [22:24] Chances of recovery for the children
• [23:20] Immediate needs for the rescued children

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Tone and Style

The discussion is frank, compassionate, and blunt, with both Anne Emerson and Dr. de la Torre refusing to shy away from the horrifying realities while always centering the needs and humanity of the victims. There is a strong emphasis on psychological insight, trauma, and the complexity of victimhood.

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Conclusion

This episode of Criminally Obsessed provides clear-eyed yet empathetic analysis of a devastating case, arguing forcefully that the older generation—particularly Gary Sr.—engineered a decades-long system of familial abuse. It offers listeners not only the grisly factual details, but a nuanced understanding of the psychological devastation and the immense work ahead to help the children reclaim any semblance of a normal life.

Transcript

[A]

Hey everyone, I'm Ann Emerson and this is criminally obsessed. It's being called the house of horrors. And after 16 neglected and malnourished children were rescued from their beyond filthy home in rural Ohio, the Vinton county sheriff described what it was like as they discovered the children. It was something I've never heard a sheriff say before or any first responder.

[B]

The looks on the kids faces as they seen the light was unique but also the seeing, the filth, the condition of it was, it was very unique. And I honestly do just mathematically think I'll probably never see that again.

[A]

And the outrage is growing. At today's press conference we barely got any answers to how full adults could possibly justify this. These were the kids, parents, their grandparents, the people who were supposed to be watching out for them. Instead we hear that one of the adults under arrest, the grandfather, Gary Siders Sr. He's been released on bond because he had to go into the hospital. He had a fall.

[C]

Let me stress the community is not at risk because of this bond.

[A]

Honestly, it's incredibly concerning news when we hear what Our guest today, Dr. John de la Torre, he's a forensic psychologist, just says about what was going on in that house and why. He says Gary Cider senior wanted it this way.

[C]

It's his house, it's his family, it's his children, it's his grandchildren. It's all of these people that he feels authority over that he can treat as objects.

[A]

The four people who were arrested are 33 year old Elizabeth Siders, her husband Gary Siders, his parents Gary Sr. And Christina Siders. They were all charged with child endangerment. The sheriff says livestock are kept in better condition.

[B]

The room was small and for 16 bodies to occupy that small of a space and it didn't look like they, they left the room.

[A]

Sixteen children kept in a room about 12 by 12ft smaller than a one car garage. That's a lot of people forced to live in a very small room in a home full of abuse and bugs. Dr. De la Torre says the grandparents were the catalysts. But why? Dr. De la Torre is certified to treat trauma and also specializes in assessing sexual abusers. He was able to look at the Siders family and answer why. Don't forget to like subscribe and turn on your notifications. We will be updating this story. Now let's get into it. This story is rocking us. It's rocking our, our communities. It's so hard to understand how we could end up with 16 kids in this kind of shape. What what was going on in that house, John?

[C]

I mean, unspeakable awfulness, unspeakable tragedy, unspeakable abuses. You know, and I think one of the ways that we.

[A]

The.

[C]

The ways in which this thing gets covered up requires planning, right? It requires a sophistication in being able to avoid what would be positive resources, but also law enforcement. And I think when we think of who has those capabilities, it's usually someone who's been doing it for a long period of time. It's not someone who is, you know, relatively young. So we're looking at the grandparents, essentially, right? The elder Siders and his wife as essentially being the catalyst for how these abuses could, number one, begin, but also kind of maintain, even though there were plenty of opportunities for law enforcement or the state or whoever to kind of stop it from happening.

[A]

So you're saying that you think that the grandparents are sort of, for. For lack of a better term, like the masterminds behind this. When we're talking about them, we're talking about Gary Senior and Christina, two of the people that have been arrested. You believe that these. These grandparents have been overseeing all of this abuse.

[C]

This was probably the most extensive abuses that they've ever probably been involved in. But abuse isn't something that is unusual for them. It's not unique for them. And so I think there's probably a long history of abusing within that dynamic, especially between the two of them, whether it's to children or to other family members or to each other, that it becomes a sort of way of life for these two individuals. In order to maintain this kind of abuse structure, remember, you have to get two new adults kind of involved, right? They're the kids and. And Elizabeth. But then you. You then have to get the. The other kids, right? The. The kids that are coming up that requires a level of manipulation and grooming that you have to practice. No, no one's just good at that. Just on the snap, right? You. You're.

[B]

You.

[C]

You have to have done this for a long period of time to know what works and what doesn't work. And again, the only two people that would have that capability, that would have that skill set would be the two elder Siders.

[A]

So this is like. This is a planned behavior. Like, this is something that they've learned how to do. This is something that they know how to do.

[C]

So what I think is that the. The elder ciders decided that they wanted to have a life, mostly him deciding that he wanted to have a life in which he did whatever he Wanted to whomever he wanted whenever he wanted to do it. He then had to abuse his wife into compliance and then he abused his son and then his son's wife into compliance and was abusing the children into compliance as well. This is a long standing, long history of abusing behaviors that is not uncommon for, you know, abusers of any kind, whether it's domestic, intimate partner or sexual abusers or anything.

[A]

Why would they do this? This is Gary Senior and Christina. They're Gary Jr's parents. Just to be clear. Why would they do this because they wanted to?

[C]

Well, let's, but let's be clear about something. It, Christine probably did not originally want to. I don't think she entered into a relationship wanting to do this. Gary sr. Right. So the, the elder, the elder siders had something in him in which he, he felt authority, agency, he felt compelled to engage in abusive type behaviors. Where does it come from? Who knows it? But you know, when it comes to, to individuals it can come from any number of places. Their own abuse from their childhood to just simply wanting to right that they just right that, that the level of psychopathy that could be associated with someone just wanting to hurt other people, especially individuals that are very close to him, from the wife to the child, to the child's spouse to now all the grandchildren. Right. He did it because he wanted to. Now the victim of his abuses, of his abusing then begins to act out on their own because they are not being protected, because they are not being rescued, because they are not being saved because all of these abuses abusing has continued. So now they're acting out on their own. It, it morphs into something that they now feel compelled to do. It's not that they wanted to do it. It's that the, the, the abusing that they had suffered was so extreme and traumatic that they don't know a life without abusing in it.

[A]

What, what do you see that points to them being the driving force behind what's happening in that house?

[C]

Well, I mean Elizabeth certainly didn't want to have 16 children over the course of like, you know, however long that marriage was, you know, only not, not that very long. So I can't imagine that she entered into that relationship wanting to then abuse every single child that she gave birth to. I also don't really see Gary Jr. Kind of knowing that he's going to engage in this behavior and gonna do it under the, you know, you know, under the, the, the, the view of his parents. Like he didn't walk into his parents, his Parents house saying, hey, guess what I'm gonna do? And then them never know that it's going to happen. There's something to be said about men wanting to abuse other people and the, the level of depravity that is associated with what is happening needed to be controlled by someone who had the belief of power. And that would be Gary Sr. Right? This, all of this would be happening because he wanted it to happen. It's his house, it's his family, it's his children, it's his grandchildren. It's all of these people that he feels authority over that he can treat as objects. It would be rare for someone, a woman, to have that level of disorder thinking it does happen.

[A]

Right?

[C]

But it would be rare. It doesn't. This doesn't seem as though a woman created this. This seems like a, a man believing himself to be more powerful than what he actually is and demonstrating that power by abusing everybody around him. That's what this seems more like. And that's how you can kind of keep it a secret. That's how you can kind of make sure that it continues. Because if, if he can abuse his son enough times to, to believe that abusing is the only way to live within a relationship, the moment his son enters into a relationship, he can, the older, the elder siders can then start abusing whoever that person his son brings in. So I doubt, I doubt Elizabeth was the only person that, that the, the, the elder siders ever abused.

[A]

We're reading right now they're trying to find out who is the biological parents of all those kids because we don't, we are, we are assuming that it is Elizabeth. But I mean, it could be more incestuous than that. I don't know. But we're learning that. But why, why so many children?

[C]

Because that's all Elizabeth was to them was just an incubator. Right? She was just a baby milk for them. I, I, I highly doubt that they were considering, you know, oh, let's make sure that she's on a pill or let's make sure that we're using condoms. They're all having sex with one another. Let's be clear about something. They're all having sexual con. Again, it's in the context of abuse, but they're all, all four of the adults are having sexual contact with each other and all of, maybe not all, but certainly the elder ciders is having sexual contact with the children, the grandchildren. So let's, let's be clear about the kinds of abuse that was happening here all they're considering is about how they can abuse anybody that's in their sphere. They don't care about the consequences. If they cared about the consequences, then none of this stuff would be happening. They didn't care. They just wanted to get what they wanted. Especially the elder siders who then abused all of the other adults into then engaging in these behaviors as well. But all Elizabeth was, was just a baby mill, right. I doubt she spent a single day in her life in that household, in that family, not being pregnant and they didn't care.

[A]

The motivation behind this is it sex

[C]

to some extent in that, you know, we have so many babies, so clearly sex is happening and clearly sex is a, a very powerful motivator. But the reality is, is that

[B]

the,

[C]

there was more abusing happening than only sexual abusing. And so the, the driving factor was initially Gary Senior wanting to control and objectify his family, his wife and his son. That then extended into other kinds of abusing by other people contained within the family. But this is all about maintaining a level of control. It's, it's about not seeing these people as people, as seeing them as objects to be used and discarded whenever any of them now, right, initially Cider Senior, but any of them now as any of them saw fit.

[A]

Can you help us start figuring out what's going on in their heads? Like as far as the level of disorder, mental illness, how do you start unpacking?

[C]

I mean honestly, you got, you probably got to start with the kids first, the grandchildren. I think we got to start with them in order to kind of understand how the layers of just problematic psychological thinking, right. Disordered thinking, all the, the, the misbeliefs that they had about the world and about relationships and about family and about love. In order to understand kind of what their disorders are, we're probably looking at characterological issues. Now it's moved past the, the issue of this is a mental disease and is now moved into these are personality characteristics. Now we're talking about severe misunderstanding about what it means to exist in the world. I think once we get to the middle layer, once we get to, you know, Junior and Elizabeth, we can probably still see some trauma related issues. We could probably still see some mood issues, depression, anxiety. We could probably still see some of those things. But at, at some point it's, it's also going to become characterological. It's now a dysfunction in how they are interacting with other people. And that's how, then you can get to the point where are these all her children probably are these all Junior's children. I highly doubt that. The question is how does the, how can a mother do this? Well, it's because of all of the abusing that she is experiencing. It's, it's preventing her from, from seeing the world in an appropriate way.

[A]

We understand that they, that Elizabeth married Gary Jr. When she was 15 years old, that, that Gary Jr. Was 18. They had to get it signed off on by all sets of parent, like both sets of parents had to sign off on this, this unholy alliance and you know, they had their first child just a couple of months later. What does this tell you about how far back this is going?

[C]

It's going pretty far back. I mean, I can easily see why the elder siders would want to sign off on this. I mean this is a new girl. Let's be clear. She was a girl when she entered into, into this family. Of course they would want, you know, pardon the expression, but of course they would want fresh meat entering into this family. The Elizabeth's family is harder to, to know. There, there are different reasons as to why they would sign off on this. I mean they could easily have said, well she's pregnant. You know, we're not going to deal with it.

[A]

Some of our listeners feel like Elizabeth is a victim too. Like that is something that we've heard in our comments from just the story we had, we did last night. And the, the response I have to say from our viewers was overwhelming. And it may be coming from where we heard her attorney speak earlier. We, you know, we also have hear attorney who's like, when I met Elizabeth, I did not see a, an evil person. I saw someone who had, had not stopped crying and would wanted to know where her kids were. But that, but he didn't see that evil. Now look, that's his job. He's defending her. Right? Sure, but what do you see? What do you see when you see Elizabeth?

[C]

Yeah, listen, I'm not going to imbue people with special powers. Right. People aren't evil or demons or you know, devils or any. People aren't people are people. And I think that Elizabeth participated in abusing and based on whatever, you know, legal statutes exists in, in that jurisdiction, she needs to be held responsible for the behaviors that she engaged in. Yeah, but let's be clear that there's different kinds of victims. Being a victim in the law is not the same thing as being a victim in reality of being a psychological victim. She did not into this relationship with Gary Jr. Or the relationships with his parents wanting to abuse 16 kids, her own 16. She did not want to do that. It happened because Gary Senior decided that he was going to abuse his family members. She entered into this relationship and began being abused herself. She needs to be held responsible. But she's not the mastermind behind any of this. And the people who are responsible, Right, the two elder siders and the husband need to be held responsible. Because she was 15 when she entered into this relationship. She didn't have a choice to be made. People made choices, adults made choices for her, included the two men who abused her. To the point that all of this stuff happened.

[A]

I, I, it does beg the question, and I am absolutely 100 sure people are going to be asking this as well. Why didn't they leave?

[C]

Yeah. To where? With what money? With, with what resources? Were they gonna, were they gonna go where? How far do you, she's 15 years old. I mean, what job is she gonna get? He's 18. Right. We're not talking about two people who have an un unfettered access to the world around them. The only world that Gary Jr. Knew is a world of abuse. He was probably convinced by his father to bring in a girlfriend so that they could all start abusing her as well. There was never a chance for escape. Could they have, you know, fantasized and talked about it? I guess, maybe. But the reality is is that Gary Sr. Probably would have beat that out of them anyway. Y and that's the, that's the trick of the abuser is to make you believe. Could they physically do it? Sure, they could physically do it, but the trick of the abuser is making it so that in your mind it's not possible.

[A]

Do they think it's okay what they did?

[C]

I think the problem that I'm having is with the word okay. I think they felt justified and they felt morally right in doing what they were doing. I think they believed that they can do what they want to anyone in their family. In terms of did they know what they were doing was wrong? In terms of legally wrong, of course they knew what they were doing was legally wrong. They didn't care. Especially Gary Senior did not care for his, whatever history that he has. And I guarantee you he has a long history of abuse and various kinds of abuse. But I will put good money down that he is an abuser of some kind. He didn't care.

[A]

There is one thing that we keep on thinking about because they've brought it up in several of the interviews we've done. The stench was unbelievable. Unbearable. How in the world do people Live

[C]

like that, you become sensitized to it. Living that long of a period of time in a place like that, it overwhelms all of your senses, right? Especially the, the most primitive sense that we have is smell. And it's the, it's the one that's easily overwhelmed. So if you put enough smell into, into the space, into an enclosed space, eventually you become what people call nose blind to it.

[A]

How do they keep this under wraps for so long? We're hearing that this is, I mean, quite an 18 year old in there to an 18 month old.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, lack of resources. I mean one of the things about, you know, the notion of freedom is that people are going to do whatever it is that they want to do and they will avoid detection. Avoid detection again requires someone knowing how to avoid detection. Gary Jr hadn't lived long enough to really know how to avoid law enforcement or anything like that, cps, you know, whatever it is that they have for, for families. But Gary Senior had. Once people start asking questions, right, you pick up stakes and you move to the next county, you move to the next town, you move to the next state.

[A]

Do you think there's any chance that these children are going to be able to overcome emotionally, psychologically what, what's occurred here?

[C]

I mean, I, I guess I, I don't want to, I don't want to put out there that there's no hope for them. But the reality is, is that it's, it's, it's going to take, you know, a pretty highly sophisticated clinical psychology grad program, right? Faculty and students to work with them all day, every day just to get them, just to get those grandchildren to a point to function with support. And then they have to want to change. And at that, as some of the older ones, especially if that's all you know, how can, how, how can you trust anybody? Trust is the most paramount element of, of existing in our society. If you can't even trust your parents or your grandparents, if you can't even trust your brother or sisters, who do you trust? Who do you trust? I, I, I, I don't know. I don't have the answer to that question.

[A]

If you were going to name one thing that these kids need the most right now, what is it?

[C]

Shower, food, shelter. I think, I think it's also important that they stay together. Just being in a place where there's love and trust, that's probably the best that we can do for them right now. And then everything else is just going to be up to doctors.

[A]

Drop a comment below. I want to hear what you're thinking about this story. It's a tough one. We are reading all of your comments and we want to answer as many questions as we can. So be sure to like and subscribe.