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- [00:00]
A
Hey, everyone, it's Anne Emerson. And this is criminally obsessed when it comes to the house of horrors in Vinton County, Ohio. Everyone keeps asking, how did nobody know? Well, I found someone who says that's not entirely true.
- [00:14]
B
It hits really hard because I guess I could have. I guess asked the right questions. I could have done something.
- [00:24]
A
Ariel Gutierrez is not a detective. She's not a social worker. She's a mom with six kids, herself a Dollar General clerk who was trying to help the Siders family. For almost two years, she waited on the parents and grandparents now accused of severely abusing 16 Siders children. She didn't know they were living in conditions the sheriff compared to livestock. But she says something that we keep hearing about this story doesn't sit right, that no one knew. She watched the parents, Elizabeth and Gary, her husband, come in after dark, just before closing. She saw Elizabeth Siders pregnant, but she never saw the baby. Was Elizabeth a victim, too?
- [01:07]
B
The person that I met with, though, is not someone who comes across as Puri. That's just the evil requires malice. And the person that I saw there, Elizabeth, she doesn't have that in her eyes.
- [01:24]
A
Ariel saw children who never looked up, never made eye contact, almost as if they'd been taught to disappear. Now she's living with a question that may never leave her. Could I have done something?
- [01:36]
B
The only. The only red flag now that I seen, I was like, okay, Ariel, you probably should have said something.
- [01:43]
A
In a rare, incredibly brave interview, Ariel shares that red flag, why she believes some people did see warning signs, and the emotional message she wants those 16 children to hear. Be sure to like and subscribe. We are not letting this story go. Now let's get into it. Ariel, I. I just want to say thank you so much for coming forward and talking to me today. I know it's. It's a hard time for you, and it's for a hard time for your whole community when something this tragic happens, isn't it?
- [02:20]
B
Yes, it is. It's a disbelief area.
- [02:24]
A
Tell me a little bit about yourself.
- [02:28]
B
I moved to Hampton, Ohio, about four years ago. I started working at the local store around here two years ago. I am a mother of six altogether.
- [02:43]
A
Can you describe Hamden for me? Tell me what it's like to live in Hampden.
- [02:47]
B
Hamden is a very quiet, very small community. It really is. We don't have no stoplights in Hampden. Most people just pass through it just to go to the next town or to go to the lake around here, because there is a lake or to go fishing. I mean it's very country. It's very country.
- [03:11]
A
Tell me, where do you work or where have you been working?
- [03:14]
B
I work at the dollar store around here.
- [03:17]
A
You were working behind like in the cash register, right? You're working at the store. I want you to take me through sort of your. When, when you saw the ciders and who you saw. We'll just kind of take it step by step.
- [03:34]
B
So like I said, I started working at the dollar store for about two years ago. When I first saw them was my first day and Elizabeth and Gary Jr. And it was in the evening at night around 9:45. It's always close to closing. They would come in there and buy. These two main items were always there. It was a jug of water and oil, but it wasn't like the big thing of oil. It was like a little oil, decent size oil, you know, the little kind of. And occasionally there'll be sugar, other items and once in a blue moon. Not all the time. Not all the time it'll be diapers. But I didn't think anything of it. The reason why when I, when I, we first saw them or when I first saw them, a couple of employees did help like buy hygiene and stuff which out of our own pocket of course, help them with the hygiene, help them with bags of clothes because this is a poor community so, you know, we want to help. I don't have no reason to judge them if they're struggling. Here's what I can do to help. Here's what we can do to help. But once we started to notice that the items weren't being used at all, that's when we kind of took a step back and was like, okay, well maybe they took it as an insult of us trying to help them.
- [05:08]
A
How do you know they weren't used?
- [05:11]
B
They were still in the same clothes for months, had holes, dirt, filth. They were. You could tell they didn't take showers. You could tell like the deodorant wasn't being used.
- [05:23]
A
How often were they coming into the store? Ariel?
- [05:27]
B
I want to say every time I worked I seen them and I worked anywhere from three to four days.
- [05:35]
A
Got it.
- [05:35]
B
And on my days off, like I said, this is the only, you know, store around here. So I live close to the store too on my days off and when I went in to go buy items, I seen them late at night, like I wasn't working. But I did still see them there. There were my regulars. I expected to see them before closing, if that makes any sense.
- [05:54]
A
That does make sense. Yeah. Honestly, Ariel, it sounds like you probably had the most communication with these people out of possibly anyone. How far away, as far as you know, how far away is the Dollar General from where this, where the 16 children were discovered? Do you know?
- [06:12]
B
It's like a two minute car ride from the store. So I want to say five blocks, maybe six.
- [06:18]
A
Okay,
- [06:21]
B
yes, very close. Very close, yes.
- [06:23]
A
Did you see them walking or did you see them driving?
- [06:28]
B
What? I seen them driving. I have saw them walk a couple times. But like I said, I never saw them with kids, but only twice in the two years. I never saw them with the older Christina and Gary Sr. I never saw them four together. So when I saw their faces online, like one of the mug shots, I was just like, what?
- [06:54]
A
Right.
- [06:55]
B
They're all together, they're related. Like, I didn't think they were together because the older couple, when I did see them, and it wasn't all the time, it was a handful of times, they were clean, they were dressed nice, they didn't stink, they didn't have an odor. And when I saw Gary and Elizabeth, let's just say I would have to Lysol before they came in, Lysol while they were in the store and Lysol while they left the store. That's how bad the order was. I didn't know that the kid, they had kids with them. I, like I said earlier, I did see the kids twice in two years and they came into the store and when I saw them, they mimic their mother. So they looked pale, they were very thin. They had their hair over their hair, their hair over their head. And I honestly personally thought they were visiting. My personal opinion, because I never saw them with kids. So when I saw them twice, I didn't know they had 16 kids, period. I thought she had five because of the four I saw. And then when she was pregnant, which I never saw the baby at all after the pregnancy, so I thought they were visiting. They came over because when they went into the store, she would ask them, what would you like to buy or what would you like? They would point. She said, go ahead and go get it. And then they will get soda, chips or whatever they got and checked it out. Now, did they eat it? I don't know. Did they consume it? I don't know. I just know I checked it out and they walked out the store with it.
- [08:37]
A
How old do you think they were? Can you, can you kind of give me that?
- [08:42]
B
There was four, I don't know. They were the same set of four But I do know that at least two teenagers and then two younger than teens, so like four, five, six, anywhere around that age, but at least like teenagers and two young ones. When I did see her with her kids, they didn't really smell as bad as I saw them every day and that made any sense. So the kids did smell clean. I'm not saying they stunk or any of that because I've only saw them twice. Elizabeth wasn't really allowed to talk to anybody in the store. When Gary would walk her around, he would give her three or four kisses and the only person she'll talk would be me. He'll give three or four kisses and walk out the store and she'll come to the register. And he did the same thing, except he walked outside and the kids will stay in the store and like I said, she'll ask him, what would you like? And they'll get it and they proceed to check out. So Elizabeth wasn't allowed to talk to me. It seemed that way. Like she. I never saw her, spoke to anybody besides the person behind the register, which is either me or one of my co workers.
- [09:52]
A
And what do you mean he gave her three or four kisses? Is that what you said?
- [09:56]
B
Yes. So every time before she came to the register, when they were done shopping, he would give her like three or four kisses on the, on the lips and then he'll walk out and she'll come to the register. I thought it was weird, but then I was just like, whatever, that's just them. That's just them, you know, like whatever. Gary Jr. I didn't hear him really talk. He really didn't even talk to me most. It was mainly me, you know, Elizabeth's interaction, mainly because she was the one that was paying for, for the items.
- [10:30]
A
And when you saw Elizabeth, when she looked at you, describe to me what you saw in those eyes. What did you see?
- [10:37]
B
There was nothing there. There was nothing. You could tell it was a body. That was it. Like she, you could tell, like she wanted the help. But I don't think she knew how to ask for the help, nor did I ask the right questions for her. I did ask, how are you doing? She'll, you know, girl, I got to pay for this. But she spoke very, very, very soft all the time. Never hard, like, never hard, never very, like emotional. It was very, very soft.
- [11:16]
A
And I'm sure you're seeing the reports too, that some of these kids couldn't talk, they couldn't communicate. That's what we're being told by the first responders that rescued them. What did you witness?
- [11:29]
B
Well, with the kids, like I said, I didn't hear them speak either. I did not. When she asked them a question, they would nod and point and then just come and got their stuff.
- [11:40]
A
It's so interesting. I mean, as far as the children, did you witness any malnourishment? Was there anything that you were seeing that. That was raising red flags with the. I guess you only saw four or five of the 16 kids.
- [11:55]
B
The only red flag now that I seen, I was like, okay, Ariel, you probably should have said something was how thin and how very pale they were. Other than them being shy and not wanting to talk to anybody and blocking out the world with her hair. Other than that, no, it was. They were very thin, just like their mom. Very pale, just like their mom. She didn't look like she carried 16 kids.
- [12:25]
A
When you say hair, do you mean like they were literally covering up their face?
- [12:29]
B
Cover their face with their hair? Like with the teenagers, you could tell, like they had. They had hair and they would have it covered. I never saw them in their. Never saw the kids eyes, but I physically seen the kids there.
- [12:43]
A
What was Gary Senior and Christina, you said that they, they would come in and they, they look different than this.
- [12:49]
B
Christina and Gary Sr. They looked very clean. Like, like I said, I didn't think they knew each other. I didn't put those two puzzles together every day that I seen. I honestly thought Elizabeth and Gary Jr. Lived alone. I thought, you know, like, I thought the kids were visiting. I honestly thought children's services took the baby after she was pregnant because I saw her through her whole pregnancy but never saw the baby.
- [13:16]
A
Did it feel like anybody was in control of that situation? Did it feel like Gary Jr. Or Elizabeth?
- [13:22]
B
Yeah, I feel like my personal opinion, My personal opinion. I feel like Gary Jr. Was in control of the whole situation. Honestly, I don't want to say she's a victim, but it really.
- [13:35]
A
There was something going on.
- [13:36]
B
In all reality. This was the first red flag. I should have, I should have questioned it. The way he would walk around the store with her. He would hold her by her elbow and just guide her around the store. And it was like I said, I didn't know if, you know, she needed to help or not, but it just, it was just weird if that made sense.
- [14:00]
A
When you interacted with them, did you feel fear from them? Did you feel sadness from them?
- [14:07]
B
Not fear. I didn't feel like she was in fear. You could tell that they both really loved each other. I mean, you could see that. But it wasn't. It wasn't like fear. It was more like if I spoke up and said something or say anything, I'm probably going to get in trouble and I don't want to be in trouble.
- [14:28]
A
Did other people in the community, did they comment, like, if they saw them in the store with them? Did you ever hear. Did you ever hear about the community reaching out to them, Them on any level?
- [14:38]
B
No. No. They really kept to themselves. So I really did not know much. But besides what I seen and when I interacted with them at the store, I. I don't know if anybody else have tried to help them out. I don't know if the neighbors try to help them out. I do know the neighbors said they didn't see anything, which to me is like a red flag because, well, if I saw him at the store, I know you guys had to have seen them at least get in the car or at least walk outside something.
- [15:10]
A
When was the last time you saw them?
- [15:13]
B
The last time I saw Gary Jr. And Elizabeth was the night before they got arrested. So they got arrested last Tuesday, so last Monday. And it was at same timing, 9:45, right before closing. Water and oil, couple other little items, and went about the business like. Like every day, like normal.
- [15:36]
A
The oil, Ariel, what are they doing with all that oil?
- [15:40]
B
I asked myself that question after the first week I was. I worked there. I was like, you guys must be eating a lot of fried food, eating potatoes. I don't know. Like, I don't know. I just. They're not buying food to fry, but you have this oil. So I just assumed either that or. Or sometimes they did have, like, noodles. So, like, of course I'd be like, okay, the oil for the noodles, you know, whatever.
- [16:08]
A
But I know I've been reading about it and I'm trying to understand it too, honestly, from a nutrition perspective. Vegetable oil is. Is something that has been used in. In countries to feed people who are starving. And Ariel, you're a mom. When you hear that. There are 16 children, seven of them have been rushed to the hospital. Two of our in trauma centers. One of them is still in critical condition. I just learned from a report from the sheriff. How does that hit you?
- [16:43]
B
It hits really hard because I guess I could have. I guess asked the right questions. I could have done something. I have, like, I can't imagine putting my kids. I just can't imagine. I just can't imagine anybody putting their kids. And like, just as a mom, my question to her is how. How can you let this go on for so long. How can you let this be okay? How did you not look up and be like, I want better for my children. My children deserve better. They need better. And as a mom, I just. I. I don't understand. I don't.
- [17:24]
A
And when we talked about doing this interview, Ariel, you told me, this is for the kids. Like, we have got to get information out about these children. Why did you want to speak up right now about what you saw?
- [17:37]
B
Well, the reason why I wanted to speak up was because when it. The first. The story first broke out, everybody kept saying they didn't see anything. They didn't see any kids. They didn't see any kids. I'm sorry. But I did. I saw the kids and I didn't know they were living there. And to the children, I am very sorry that I didn't ask the question. I'm very sorry that I kept my mouth shut. I should have investigated more, but I did not know you were there, and I apologize. I really do apologize. And I'm sorry. And I know you're gonna get all the help. I know God is on your side. God will help you. I'm just. I'm sorry I seen you, but I didn't know you were there. I'm sorry.
- [18:25]
A
I know. And you know what? Everybody. Everybody here wants you to know that there's no way for you to have known what was going on. It is almost unimaginable, Ariel, and it is you. This is not your fault. You did nothing wrong. You were trying to help. And right now, you're still trying to help. So I want you to know that we see you and we understand what you're going through.
- [18:49]
B
I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm sorry again to the children. And I know they might watch this one day, but I seen you and I'm sorry. I really am.
- [19:03]
A
As far as the community, have you been able to talk to your colleagues or other people just to. Just to share your stories about what's going. What you had experienced with them? Is there anything that. That. That shared experience, anything you can tell me about?
- [19:23]
B
I. I have talking to some of the neighbors in the community. I told them exactly what I told you, what I've known about. Most of majority of them said that they didn't know this was going on. They didn't know there was kids there, which, I mean, I. You know, I guess, but it's more like a shock. Is shock in here in Hamden? It's more like, what are we hearing this right Is this really going on? So we're all still, like, can't believe it. This is a beautiful community. If you need help, the neighbors will help you. Just if you ask. It might not be exactly what you need at that moment, but it would be something that they. Somebody will help you. And we all do stick together. We do. I just don't. Like I. Like I said in the beginning, I don't. I don't see how anybody else didn't see them. I cannot be the only one that saw her with kids. But again, I thought they were visiting.
- [20:28]
A
It sounds like there was an enormous amount of scary control going on as well. So the fear must have been palpable. We are just now starting that journey of seeing how we all can be better at watching for red flags, helping these kids on their journey.
- [20:48]
B
Now, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut. This opened my eyes, and I'm going to say something. Even though it might insult them, it might not. It might save somebody's life. And like I said, I'm sorry to the kids. I seen you. I'm sorry. I really am. I really am.
- [21:07]
A
That's so hard. I know. I'm sorry, too. Drop a comment below. I want to hear what you think about Ariel's interview with me. I thought it was incredibly brave for her to come forward. Remember, she didn't have to speak to me. She wanted to speak to me, and she wanted to get that message to those kids. I thought that was incredible. Be sure to, like, subscribe and turn on your notifications. We will be updating this story with the latest information.