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- [00:00]
Mike Morford
For everyone who solves crime from their couch, knows more about forensics than their own job, and has trust issues with small town sheriffs. Amazon Music's millions of podcast episodes are calling. Just download the Amazon music app and start listening to your favorite true crime podcasts ad free.
- [00:18]
Mike Ferguson
Included with Prime Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Sam.
- [00:57]
Mike Morford
Hello everyone and welcome to episode 399 of the Criminology podcast.
- [01:01]
Mike Ferguson
I'm Mike Ferguson and this is Mike Morford.
- [01:04]
Mike Morford
Mr. Morford, how you doing this week, man?
- [01:06]
Mike Ferguson
I'm doing pretty good. I'm getting ready for my last flag football game of the season. I've been coaching this year and hasn't gone as good as we hoped. I think our record's like two and six, but the kids are excited for the last game and I am too. And then it's playoff time. All the teams make the playoffs. So that's when I'm not working on criminology. I'm working on plays for our flag football team.
- [01:29]
Mike Morford
All right. All right. Well, at 2 and 6, I would imagine you get a high draft pick next year. I'm hoping number one pick. Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Sally Smith come in with some new support. That's awesome. We really appreciate it.
- [01:47]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, thank you so much, Sally. And thank you to everyone else that supports the show. If you want to help us out, head over to patreon.com criminology to get started.
- [01:56]
Mike Morford
All right, we have to jump into this episode and the case we're covering this week. It's no doubt a tough one, but let's face it, right, all of the cases we cover on criminology are tough. We're often talking about victims who went through terrible ordeals and in many cases there are far reaching ripple effects for their loved ones. But sometimes we cover a case that is so shocking, so senseless and cold blooded that it really hits you hard and it sticks with you. And I think this week's case is one of those. We're Talking about the 2015 murders of 22 year old Asia Brown and her two year old son, Ashton Brown. And this is a very timely case, which is why we chose to tackle it in this episode because it happened 11 years ago this week and police are still seeking the person who killed them. So it's our hope that we can help spread the word about their case.
- [02:55]
Mike Ferguson
In 2015, Asia Brown and her son Ashton were living together at the JT Hairston Memorial Apartments located at 1208 Orchard street in Greensboro, North Carolina. Asia was working as a security guard at the Greensboro Auto auction, and young Ashton was usually in daycare while she worked. The mother and son were very close. One of Asia's friends, a man named Charles Vesey, told the Greensboro News and Record that Asia was a doting mother and she spoiled Ashton. He said she loved her son. She was all about Ashton. You should have seen him at Christmas. He loved Mickey Mouse. He had Mickey Mouse everything. Toys, covers, clothes. A resident of the Harrison Memorial apartment complex told the newspaper that Asia was friendly and that she always spoke when
- [03:42]
Mike Morford
she saw me, so it's easy to tell from everything. Morph just mentioned that Asia was a loving mom and she was very close with her son and her neighbors and friends liked her and had nothing but great things to say about her. She also was a very reliable employee who didn't miss work. That's why people became alarmed when no one had seen or heard from her or Ashton since Friday the 20th, 2015. Calls to Asia's phone had been going straight to voicemails since that day on February 22. Just before 7pm after Asia not showing up to work for two days in a row without explanation, her friend and coworker Britney Greenwood called 911 to report her missing.
- [04:33]
Brittany Greenwood
I have a friend that's missing. I haven't seen. She, she hasn't been to work in two days. She won't answer. Like no one's seen her for two days. I went by her apartment. There's no sign of her. She has mail and like, I guess, forms and stuff, stuff in there, stuff in her door that she hasn't been home to check. So it's clear she hasn't been home, you know, and I'm just concerned. Now her phone going straight to voicemail and has been for two days. She will say why she hasn't come to work, which is completely out of character. She's never miss work. Okay, what's the address she was last seen? I, I don't know. I, I, I, the last time I spoke to her was Friday afternoon.
- [05:11]
Mike Ferguson
Okay.
- [05:11]
Brittany Greenwood
And I haven't physically seen her in over a week. Well, not a week. I saw her last weekend when I, I thought that was odd, you know, but I said, well, maybe, you know, he got sick or something, whatever. And after they all day of calling and no, no response. She never called our supervisor to tell him why she didn't show up. She wouldn't do that. So I just at this point, you know, here it is two days later and she still has yet to contact anybody. We were making plans to go out to eat and I. I told her that she rather. I rather just come over. So she said, that's fine. She said, I'm gonna go get some stuff straight with my car because she's been looking for a car. So I assume she was, you know, you know, you know, browsing around the city, you know, trying to find a deal or something like that, you know, looking at different cars. And I said that I had my daughter and that she could bring her son. It was fine, you know, they could play. And I said, so just let me know. And she never responded to that text. I sent that text at 1:40 and she just stopped texting me back. She never responded again. I text her that night. She didn't respond. She didn't show up for work that morning to relieve me, and her phone has been off ever since.
- [06:13]
Mike Ferguson
You can hear from that audio that Brittany was clearly worried about Asia. Just the panic in her voice. She knew something wasn't right with the situation. Brittany knew her friend well because they had known each other for two years, and even before working at the auction together, they had worked at another place together. Brittany regularly watched Ashton for Asia because they were both single moms and worked different shifts. Brittany was the first one to start working at the auction company and she helped Asia get a job there. She would have known Asia's habits very well. Brittany told the Greensboro News and Record, you don't jeopardize your job as a single mother. One piece of information Brittany couldn't give with complete confidence was the type of vehicle Asia might be driving. She thought it was a Mustang, but she also mentioned to the 911 dispatcher that the last time she talked to her, Brittney was in the process of trying to buy a new car. So she wasn't entirely sure what car she might be driving. Police took Brittany's call very seriously and immediately began to look for the missing mother and son and morph.
- [07:13]
Mike Morford
You know, one thing that is really kind of jumping out to me here is Brittany talking about being a single mother. Right. You mentioned it. They were both single mothers. And Brittany said, one thing you don't do as a single mother is jeopardize your job. And how. How could you, right. You are solely responsible in many cases as a single mother for not only yourself, but your child or your children. And that job is such a big part of that.
- [07:49]
Mike Ferguson
And I think it's clear that Brittany knew her friend Asia well and knew this was out of character for her. And credit to her for coming forward so soon and saying, something's not right here. I've got to get the police involved. Because in so many cases we talk about, somebody knows or recognizes something might not be right, but they don't do anything about it. But in this instance, to her credit, Brittany did. She got involved, called 911, and the police seem to take it seriously right away, too. And a lot of times we hear, you know, they'll give excuses. We don't really look for somebody until they're missing for a certain amount of time or, you know, maybe she's just out having fun and she'll be back whenever they jumped into action here. So as quickly as Brittany was able to report it, they started investigating.
- [08:37]
Mike Morford
At around 3:30 in the afternoon on Monday, February 23, the day after Brittany called 911, workers from the city of Greensboro who were performing watershed maintenance came across a suspicious vehicle. The car had obviously been at some point completely destroyed by fire, and it was hidden on a service road in a wooded area near Buffalo Creek, just beyond the end of Thurston Avenue, which was a dead end street. It wasn't visible from the road, which is why it hadn't been discovered sooner. What the city employees found inside the trunk was unmistakable. They were looking at human remains. They immediately called the police to report their unexpected discovery. Investigators quickly determined that there were two bodies inside the trunk, an adult as well as a very young child. Paired with the missing persons report for Asia and two year old Ashton, authorities were pretty sure that the remains in the trunk belonged to them.
- [09:42]
Mike Ferguson
Unfortunately, a snowstorm in the area began not long after police arrived unseen and continued overnight. And that delayed much of the investigation because any evidence in the field near the crime scene was buried in snow. Investigators had to conduct their ground search days later, and the car was left at the scene overnight. It wasn't towed from the area for several days. It took an entire week for authorities to fully examine the crime scene. Police initially believed the car was a Nissan Altima, but later learned that it was a 2005 Buick LaCrosse. That's how badly damaged this vehicle was from the fire, likely due to the use of an accelerant. In fact, On Wednesday the 25th, two days after the car was first discovered, two people, a firefighter and a crime scene investigator, got so sick from breathing in fumes at the scene that they had to be taken to the hospital. The Buick's license plate was not on the car, but it was found at the scene. There's no information as to whether it was also charred from the flames or it had been taken off and tossed at the scene.
- [10:45]
Mike Morford
And, you know, Morf, we talk often about people kind of just going about their daily life. Maybe it's their job, maybe it's a hobby. And they stumble upon human remains and how tough that would be. This one, though, man, I. I don't know what must have been going, you know, through these people's minds. They're at work. They find this car that's obviously been on fire, and then in the trunk find the remains of two bodies, one of which is a child. It's just unimaginable.
- [11:27]
Mike Ferguson
And when police get to the scene, they're ready to start doing their investigation. And to their dismay, this storm comes in, and that's going to prolong things. And I think that really, you know, that first time after a crime scene is discovered is crucial. You want to collect evidence as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible, and then you have a snowstorm that comes in that can damage evidence, destroy evidence, and just delay the investigation overall. So I think they just had a bit of bad luck on their side.
- [12:03]
Mike Morford
Yeah, you know, luck is not something we talk about all the time, but you can have good luck in an investigation, and you can also have bad luck. And obviously, like you said, this was bad luck, this snowstorm. The damage to the bodies inside the car was incredibly extensive. So many times when we hear about remains being discovered in bad shape due to the effects of time or weather, authorities have to rely on dental records or X rays in order to make a positive identification. But in this case, they were completely useless due to the extreme fire. A DNA match was the only way for investigators to confirm that the bodies in the trunk of the car were actually those of Asia and Ashton. Lead detective Mike Matthews told the Greensboro News and Record. This is one of the few cases I've worked in my 10 years where we've had to use DNA to do a positive ID although we believed from the beginning it was them. The DNA analysis to confirm it was Asia and Ashton took almost three months to complete.
- [13:14]
Mike Ferguson
The fire damage to the bodies was so extreme that the medical examiner was unable to determine whether or not Asia and Ashton were dead before their bodies were burned. He also wasn't able to determine how they died, let alone win. The official cause of death for both Asia and Ashton is listed as homicidal violence of undetermined means. But based on Asia's social media activity, the timing of unreturned calls and texts, and the last sighting of asia at an Autozone store. Detective Matthews seemed to think that Friday the 20th, specifically in the afternoon, was very important to the case. He told the Greensboro News and Record. I need people to be focused on.
- [13:54]
Mike Morford
Friday afternoon, February 20th, Asia's iPhone was found inside the car. It's unclear whether it was in the trunk with her, like it had been thrown in with her or had been in her pocket, or if it was inside the car, like maybe she kept it in the center console while she was driving and the killer didn't touch it. It's also unknown whether the killer intentionally turned off Asia's cell phone, causing it to go straight to voicemail, or whether the battery just died because she wasn't able to charge it before she was murdered. And then there's also the possibility that, you know, calls were going straight to voicemail because the cell phone had been destroyed in the fire.
- [14:39]
Mike Ferguson
Detectives needed to piece together a timeline for the case. They had no idea when the car their bodies were found in was parked off of that service road behind Thurston Avenue, and they don't know when it was set on fire. We know that Asia was alive and well on the morning of February 20th because she was active on her social media accounts. Nothing seems off with her post from that Friday morning. She was still fine a few hours later. As far as anyone could tell from surveillance footage, Asia was seen shopping at an AutoZone on Randleman Road at around 3:20 that afternoon. This is the last time investigators can verify that Asia was alive, and it's the last verified sighting of her. Detective Matthews told WFNY News 2 the timeline stops at the AutoZone and more of.
- [15:24]
Mike Morford
To me, this is one of the big differences between, you know, a case in the last 10, 15 years versus a similar type of case that happened 40 or 50 years ago. The. The advent and proliferation of social media, as well as surveillance video. I mean, those two things alone provide information that possibly couldn't be attained way back then. You think about people on social media posting. Some people post daily, many, many times a day about what they're doing. It almost helps create a timeline.
- [16:10]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. In a case like this, I think every little clue matters because it helps police establish a timeline. Maybe they can narrow down a window of. Of when something happened to Asian Ashton.
- [16:23]
Mike Morford
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- [17:42]
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- [18:48]
Mike Morford
Asia apparently purchased that Buick just hours before she went to the autozone where she was last seen alive. She registered the car in her name at the DMV office in high point at 1:30pm it's about a 20 minute drive from that location to the Randleman Road Autozone. Ashton was seen with Asia when she visited the DMV. About 10 minutes later, Asia's friend Brittany sent Asia a text, which she never replied to. And it didn't seem like Asia had Ashton with her when she went to shop at autozone, though, which would complicate things. Now, it's possible that he was in the car and just couldn't be seen since he didn't get out, but that's still unclear. If he wasn't with her, investigators don't know where he was, but feel it could be important. Detective Matthews told the Greensboro News and recorded, did she stop somewhere to let someone keep Ashton? That's going to be very important to this investigation. We would love that information. Detective Matthews stressed what a big clue that could be. This would get them closer to knowing who the last person to see Asia was and potentially lead investigators right to her killer.
- [20:11]
Mike Ferguson
If Asia did indeed drop Ashton off with someone, it seems that they didn't arrange it on her cell phone or social media. Otherwise investigators would have found that communication. Since they were able to access Asia's text messages, emails and social media accounts, if she was involved with anything shady or dangerous, they likely would have found some trace of it. If she did stop somewhere to drop Ashton off before going to AutoZone, investigators believe it would have had to be close to the store. No one has ever come forward to say they were watching Ashton while Asia went to AutoZone. But again, we don't know if anyone at all was watching Ashton while his mom was in the store. Perhaps he was asleep and Asia left him in the car while she went into the store. There are mixed reports about what it is Asia was looking for or actually bought at the AutoZone. Some reports say she was looking for car parts, while others say she was there to buy accessories. While we don't know what she bought, investigators likely do since they have access to the security footage from the store as well as having conducted interviews with staff there. But they may be holding that information back because it could be something that only the killer knows, especially if whatever she bought was still in the car when it was set on fire.
- [21:23]
Mike Morford
More if you just mentioned holding something back, right, that only the killer would know, and with so few clues, that was really one of the only things they could hold back to try and prove that whoever knew that information was involved in the crime. For example, toward the very beginning of the investigation, after realizing that the car wasn't a Nissan Altima and was actually A Buick. Authorities wouldn't even confirm what kind of vehicle Asia was driving. It wasn't until they ultimately decided that it would be more useful to generate potential tips from the public that they released that information.
- [22:04]
Mike Ferguson
Police also refused to confirm or deny the use of accelerants in the fire, though that news kind of got away from them due to the reports of people getting sick from vapors at the scene. It appeared that the car was burned at the scene after being parked where it was found. With so many businesses in the surrounding area, it seems impossible that not one camera captured someone suspicious walking away from where the car was found burned, which could have helped investigators figure out a direction for their canvas of the area. It's also possible more than one person was involved, and someone drove them out of the area in a second vehicle. The area where Asia's car was found seemed like a big clue to detectives. They were certain that this was not an area that could have been stumbled upon and felt that the killer knew that area well and was familiar with it.
- [22:50]
Mike Morford
And going back to, you know, investigators holding things back, we know they do that. They have to do that in many cases. You know, if someone were to come forward and confess, well, they have to have a way to either confirm that confession or rule that person out. But I can imagine that that's a very tough decision. You think about some of the cases that we've done that go back 30, 40, 50 years, and I can remember in some of those, it's 20 or 30 years later that police release some of the details. So in many cases, they hold on to things for a very long time when possibly kind of letting that information out to the public could give them the break they need. But from my way of thinking, it can't be an easy decision. What do you hold back and what do you release?
- [23:55]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, to me, if it's one thing, if there was something very specific that Asia had bought at autozone and it was found in the car, and later on, if the killer came forward and mentioned that, then that's one thing that, sure, you can hold something like that back and helps you later on, but things like just the basic car description, you know, I would think you would want to get that out there as fast as possible so you get witnesses coming forward. Because if you ask somebody that question weeks or months down the road, if you release that and say, hey, we were looking for somebody that saw this car, I don't know about you, but I don't remember cars that I saw weeks or months ago. Half the time I probably wouldn't remember something I saw at the Home Depot that I was just at yesterday. So I think you risk losing potential witnesses the longer you wait to release certain details.
- [24:53]
Mike Morford
Yeah, I'm with you. And you say, you know, weeks or months, sometimes it's even years. And who is going to remember a car 5, 10, 15 years later? I mean, it just, it gets very tough. Asia and Ashton's murders were not the first in that area with the same hallmarks. The area had been in the news for a somewhat similar crime. Maybe coverage of that murder and the subsequent trial and appeal gave someone a terrible idea. In March of 2010, multiple trash bags full of human remains were found in the wooded area behind Thurston Avenue. Based on missing persons reports, authorities believed it was the body of 41 year old Retha Cook Simpson. A DNA comparison ended up confirming this. Her body had been dismembered and burned before being dumped in the woods. Due to the state of the remains, the medical examiner could only rule that her cause of death was from undetermined homicidal violence. Her husband, Winford Simpson, was arrested and charged with her murder in early 2013. He was sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole. In May of 2014, his appeal was denied. Articles about his arrest, the trial and the appeal all described the wooded area off of Thurston Avenue where a murder victim remained undiscovered for days. Maybe whoever killed Asia and Ashton had heard about the area in news articles about the Retha Simpson murder and felt like it would be a good place to leave Asia and Ashton's bodies.
- [26:40]
Mike Ferguson
Police once again decided to focus on the timeline leading up to Asia and Ashton's murders and felt that Brittany might know Asia's movements the best. Asia and Ashton were supposed to go over to Brittany's house for dinner the last day she heard from Asia, but they didn't show. The original plan had been to go out to eat together, but Brittany wasn't feeling up to it and asked Asia if they could just do dinner at her place. It was a little bit more low key and her daughter and Ashton could play together while their mothers finished eating and hanging out. When Asia didn't come to dinner and stopped replying to text, Brittany figured something had come up and that Asia would explain it when she showed up and relieved her at work the next morning. When she didn't show up the next day and her phone was going directly to voicemail, Brittany thought that maybe Ashton was sick or something had happened to Asia's phone, leaving her unable to call into work for the day. But when she missed yet another day, Brittany was positive that something bad had happened to Asia. She would have found a way to contact someone and let them know what was going on and where she was. But with no word from her at all, it was clear something was wrong. After texting and calling and getting no answer for a full weekend, Brittany went over to Asia's apartment. She knocked on the door, but no one answered. She didn't hear anything inside. In fact, it seemed like Asia hadn't been there in days. Mail was piling up, waiting for Asia to bring it inside. This piling up mail is reminiscent of umpteen movie scenes I've seen of cases where somebody's missing or something's going on and, and you see all this mail piling up at their door. It's usually never a good sign because if somebody's, like, on vacation or, or whatever, they'll ask a neighbor to take care of it, or they'll ask a friend or family member to come over and pick it up. But when you just see lots of mail piling up at some of these door packages, that kind of stuff, that usually means something's not right.
- [28:38]
Mike Morford
Yeah, there might be one day that we forget to go out and get the mail, but, you know, obviously if you have a mailbox, that thing's going to get pretty full fairly quickly. And nowadays, with so many packages being delivered to people's houses. Right. Amazon and so many other companies, who doesn't want their packages and who wants, you know, to leave them out there and give maybe a porch pirate or something like that a chance to steal it? So, you know, I do think more of, as you said, some of that stuff is a really bad sign. Investigators were able to determine that Asia and Ashton hadn't stayed at their apartment the entire week they were last seen alive. And this could be a very big clue. While we don't know what the reason was that they weren't staying in their own apartment, it may have played a role in their murders. And it does lead to more questions. Was Asia afraid of someone and chose to stay someplace else? And if she and Ashton did stay with someone else, who was it? And why have they not come forward? Now, police may have those answers, but publicly they haven't shared them. If they do, Police also revealed that there had not been any 911 calls made from Asia's apartment. So based on, you know, all of the facts and circumstances at the apartment, police theorized that whatever happened to Asia and Ashton Likely didn't happen there.
- [30:14]
Mike Ferguson
One thing a lot of people gravitate to in this case is the situation with the multiple cars Asia may have been connected to. We mentioned that investigators first thought that the burned out car could be a Nissan Altima. This is likely because one of Asia's neighbors at the apartments on Orchard street believes she drove a white Altima. But her friend Brittany mentioned that she was last driving a newer Mustang. People wonder, did someone, maybe multiple people, lend her these cars? If so, who? The fact that she bought a new car the day she died certainly jumps out. Could the murders have something to do with that purchase? Unfortunately, police haven't released many details surrounding the purchase, which has only fueled more speculation.
- [30:56]
Mike Morford
None of the available materials or news articles have mentioned whether Asia was dating anyone at the time of her murder or whether she had recently broken things off with or rejected someone. There are also zero mentions of Ashton's father outside of the fact that his DNA sample was used to help confirm that Ashton's remains were in the trunk of the destroyed car. There's been speculation that Asia didn't even know who the father was, since it seems like he was completely out of the picture. But it if authorities were able to find him and collect his DNA, then his name must have been documented somewhere or known to Asia's family members or friends. If they were able to get a DNA sample from him, it seems very likely they also checked on his alibi and looked for any potential motives, like child support payments to Asia.
- [31:51]
Mike Ferguson
The most popular theory online, based on the combination of Asia not staying in her apartment and constantly switching cars, was that she may very well have been afraid of someone and trying to hide from them. If that's the case, who was she afraid of and why? And did that person finally catch up with her? If she was worried about someone, it seems like she might have confided in her friend Brittany since they were so close. But as far as we know, she didn't. It brings up an interesting scenario that if Age was trying to avoid someone, maybe she was killed by someone that she trusted and. And let her guard down with. Perhaps that person was close to her. So close they were worried that maybe somehow little Ashton might ID them and he was killed too in order to silence him. But if a stranger killed Asia, how likely would it be that a 2 year old could provide enough information to police to ID them? But at his age, he likely could say a few words or names, and perhaps the killer could not take that risk.
- [32:49]
Mike Morford
And we said it right up front, right this is a horrible case. You have a mother killed, you have a two year old child murdered. So for me, I always wonder, first of all, who could kill anyone? But we know that does happen. But who could kill a two year old and why would they do it? So if you're looking at a total stranger situation, is it likely that they would kill two year old Ashton? It's possible. But would they really feel the need to do that as opposed to someone who was familiar to Ashton and felt as though he could more easily identify? And that's the thought that kind of goes through my mind. Now we know percentage wise, right, most people are killed by people they know, you know. Is that the scenario here?
- [33:52]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I think you're spot on with that because a total stranger would have no reason to kill a two year old boy unless that he felt that there's just a chance, even a slight chance, that he's going to say my name to police when they question him. If they try to question him like they do children sometimes in crimes and he might blurt out my name and I just can't take that risk. But what's frightening is if this person did this to Asia alone is bad enough to do it to a two year old boy, what else could this person be capable of? You know, you can, your imagination could run wild with the types of brutal and cold blooded crimes they could, they could commit. So it seems like the longer this person's been out there, the more victims they could have. Because if they could do this once and especially do it to a little boy, they could have done it several times or done other crimes like it as well.
- [34:57]
Mike Morford
Yeah, my thought is if you can kill a mother and her two year old son, I don't know that you have many limits, if any, because that's about as bad as it gets.
- [35:11]
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- [35:49]
Mike Morford
Another theory surrounds the car that Asia had just purchased. You know, perhaps in a case of mistaken Identity. She was killed by someone targeting the person that sold it to Asia. She literally had the car for less than a day. There's also speculation that the murders were a random act of violence and that Asia and Ashton were carjacked or robbed and something went wrong and they were killed in the process. And the fire was set to destroy evidence and erase anything linking them to the crime. Still another theory is that Asia had witnessed something or knew a secret about someone and was killed to silence her. Unfortunately, there's no evidence that we know of that points in any one direction. So in a case like this morph, obviously you're going to have all kinds of speculation and theories because that's really all people can do. Some of them, you know, are interesting. Could it be possible that someone was targeting the person who owned this car before, didn't know that they had sold it? I guess it's possible. Right? Anything's possible. You have to kind of keep everything on the table. In a case like this, random violence is possible, but it's also very possible this is someone who was known to Asia and maybe she did overhear something, find something out that the killer was afraid she was going to disclose. And for me, this kind of goes back to, you know, why had she not been at her apartment as the authorities seem to believe was the case? Was she hiding from someone?
- [37:45]
Mike Ferguson
That's a very good point, because if she wasn't at the apartment for a week, like they suspect she had to be staying with someone somewhere. Unless she was, you know, had gotten a hotel or slept in her car, she most likely stayed with someone, and that someone, if they're out there, never came forward. So then the question becomes, why? Why haven't they come forward? Just to say, yeah, she was here and, you know, because of this reason or that. So that could be suspicious. But I think the problem with this case and for investigators is that when you don't have a motive and you don't have anything specific for a road to go down, you're sort of spinning in circles because you don't. You've just got to look at all the facts, the details and the clues that are there, but. But you don't have any avenues to go down. So I. I think that's part of why this case remains unsolved, you know, over 10 years later.
- [38:49]
Mike Morford
Yeah, my thought is, you know, they've looked at all the facts, they've talked to all the people that they're aware of, so what can you do? I believe they're waiting for that Next tip, that next clue to come in.
- [39:04]
Mike Ferguson
We touched on it earlier. Investigators confirmed that they had access to Asia's Facebook account, her Yahoo email, her icloud and her bank accounts. If they found anything relevant to the case, they haven't released that information to the public. As far as we know, there's no indication that Asia was involved in any illegal activities or anything that might have put her at risk. And all these years later, the murder of Asia and Ashton still shocks and haunts people. And they can't fathom who would murder in cold blood. The loving mother and her son. Asia's friend Charles Vesey told the Greensboro News and Record. I don't know who could have done this. What would have been their intention? What would have been their motive? It just doesn't make sense. It's just tearing me up. Asia's friend and co worker Brittany has always felt that this was a deeply personal crime and believed that whoever killed Asia knew her. In Brittany's opinion, this wasn't a random crime. And Detective Matthews told the newspaper, this case has frustrated investigators. It's been one challenge after another.
- [40:07]
Mike Morford
And I kind of agree with Brittany for, you know, a couple of different reasons. One is that, you know, the percentages favor that. Right. The perpetrator being someone who knew Brittany, it not being a random crime. But then also, as we talked about someone being able to kill Ashton as well, I think it lends itself to someone who was known to both of them, in my opinion. And, you know, Charles, talking about motive, and you talked about it as well, to me, that's the big one. Right. As you said, what road do police choose to go down? And without having any idea what the motive was for this murder. Motive is such a huge thing. And when you don't know it, I feel like authorities, a lot of times are left spinning their wheels.
- [41:07]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. And I'm with you. I sort of tend to think this is somebody that Asia knew and knew Asia. And you have to believe that police have scoured her social media, her. Her friend group, her co workers, and probably just put everyone in a file and went through them one at a time, looking for anyone talking to them, seeing if any of them had a motive or any issues with Asia. And because there's been no arrest, you have to assume that none of them rose to such a level that. That police felt they had the right person. That leads to more questions, because if. If her friends, people like Brittany, her close co workers, family, all those people, if there's no one within that group who's A suspect, and none of them could provide anyone that might be a suspect. That makes it harder for police because then what. What leads do they have? Where do they go from there? And. And it's just very frustrating.
- [42:10]
Mike Morford
Thousands of dollars offered over the years as a reward for information have yielded no lead so far. Even early on, it didn't seem to be enough incentive for anyone, even a troll or a prankster, to call in a tip. In May of 2015, Detective Matthews told WFNY News that investigators hadn't had a lot of information come in. This seems surprising because this case involves the murder of a two year old. It seems like this kind of crime would have sparked outrage and people might be turning in potential suspects left and right. This makes it a real possibility that whoever killed Asia and Ashton acted alone and never told anyone. Detective Matthews also noted the potential that no one out there knows anything, saying it could be that maybe there's not a lot of information out there. If that's the case, without any kind of deathbed confession, we may never learn the truth, especially as fire may have destroyed potential evidence.
- [43:18]
Mike Ferguson
Despite the lack of tips, Detective Matthews was clear that investigators would not be giving up on the case and hinted that there could be promising leads to follow. Even if no one spoke up in 2015, he told WFNY, it's nowhere close to being a cold case at this time. In 2016, in an interview with the Greensboro News and Record, Detective Matthews called this case the most challenging case of his homicide career to date. He had been working the job for more than a decade at that point. Ten years after he made that statement, the case is still unsolved. We still don't know who killed Asia and Ashton Brown. We don't know why and when someone is willing to kill a toddler. We truly don't know what crimes are capable of committing in the years after.
- [44:03]
Mike Morford
Way back in 2016, Detective Matthews told the Greensboro News and Record, nothing's been ruled in, nothing's been ruled out. That's where this investigation's at. From what we can tell, that's exactly where the investigation still stands today. Ten years after he made that statement in 2018, he told myfox8.com which we've chased every lead, we've done everything forensically we can do. And we get to this point where I don't want to call it a cold case because we're still working on this case now, but we get to a point where we really don't have a lot of avenues to go.
- [44:45]
Mike Ferguson
Ashton Brown would have Been a teenager this year, his love of Mickey Mouse would have probably evolved over time to a love of anime, video games, music, or sports, all of the things young teenagers are into. But someone snuffed out his life before he had a chance to really live it. We can only hope that Asia didn't see her little son murdered and that whatever happened in their final moments happened quickly. None of Asia or Ashton's family members have ever given any kind of public statement or done interviews. This decision is one that can likely be attributed to their grief. But it makes you wonder if part of that is because they don't know who did this and that maybe it's someone that they know or trust.
- [45:22]
Mike Morford
And I have to imagine, Morph, that that's a very scary thought. Horrible that they had to deal with the losses of Asia and Ashton, but for so many years now, not knowing what happened to them and the thought that possibly it could be someone that they know, how tough would that be?
- [45:47]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, that's just seeing people that knew her, you know, maybe at family gatherings or groups of friends, you know, I, if I were in their shoes, I might be looking around saying, could that person there have been involved? Or maybe thinking about a disagreement that Asia had with someone and then wondering, well, maybe that disagreement led to something else. It seems like it would just spiral over time and that you might never be able to escape suspicion. And maybe that's why they've chose just not to talk about it at all, because it's probably would be too hard for them.
- [46:27]
Mike Morford
Well, the, and the other thing that I would think is that it would make it very hard to trust people moving forward. There was still a reward of up to $15,000 being offered in 2024. The total amount of available rewards in this case has continued to dwindle over time. In 2022, it was 20,000. Hopefully, if anyone out there had information, they would come forward with it. Not for a reward, but because it's the right thing to do. If you have any information about the murders of Asia and Ashton Brown, you can give your tip anonymously to Crime stoppers by calling 336373 1000. So morph, as we wrap this case up, obviously it's a tough one. A loving mom. People said glowing things about Asia and there's no doubt that she loved her two year old son, Ashton. I think, you know, as a single mother, he was her world. So the thought of them being murdered possibly together. You said it. Did she have to witness her son being murdered or did he have to witness her being murdered. I mean, this is just a horrific case, and whoever did this still has not paid for it. And not only have they not paid for it, it's possible that, you know, they. They were out there committing more crimes. It's just scary all the way around.
- [48:09]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, it's. This is one of those cases that just hit you hard when you think about this loving mom, her young son. Seems like they're really each other's world. And for someone to come in and take that away and murder them in cold blood, there's just not any rational explanation for that, especially Ashton. I mean, we know that people do horrible things, they murder people all the time, but it takes an especially cold and callous person, I think, to murder a young child. It's just. It's hard to get in that headspace and try and understand that kind of person. And I hope the case is solved one day. But I have a feeling that even if we got a name and even if that person gave details, it would probably still be incomprehensible why they did what they did. There. There would be no answer they could give that, in my mind, that would come close to even explaining or justifying what they did.
- [49:22]
Mike Morford
Well, there's just some things that you can't make sense of. Right. No matter how somebody explains it, it's not going to make sense of why someone felt they had to murder these two people. But for me, you know, this is one of those cases that's very tough to talk about but needs to be talked about, because I believe Asia and Ashton deserve justice. And right now they just haven't got it. And hopefully at some point in the future, they can. They can get it.
- [49:57]
Mike Ferguson
And I'm usually someone that tries to keep an open mind and stay hopeful, but in this case, I'm just worried because now all this time's passed. There was so much damage to the car. The fire was very tough on the crime scene. We had bad weather that affected it. So I just feel all the way around that there's a lot that stands in the way of this case being solved. And maybe it would take like, a deathbed confession or somebody that knows something eventually coming forward, but I'm not very hopeful, unfortunately.
- [50:34]
Mike Morford
Well, and I think this is the type of case that it's even more important to talk about because it's less likely that it's going to be solved through something like DNA, because, as you mentioned, the crime scene was just brutal, destroyed. But that's it for our episode on Asia and Ashton. Brown. As always, if you love the show, take a minute, go out, leave us a rating, leave a review. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the Criminology Podcast really helps us out.
- [51:04]
Mike Ferguson
If you want to find us on social media, we're on every major platform. Just search for Criminology Podcast on your favorites. You can also go to our website, criminologypodcast.com to get news about the show and find old episodes. And if you want to join a discussion about the podcast or the cases we discover, head over to Facebook and search for Criminology Podcast discussion and fans.
- [51:27]
Mike Morford
So that's it for another episode of Criminology. But Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike and Morph, we'll talk to you next week.
- [51:38]
Mike Ferguson
Take care everyone. Sa.