← Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast
Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast
Prof Responds: Fleur Delacour & the Patriarchy’s Sleight of Hand
00:52:01
In this Prof Responds episode, Professor Julian Wamble revisits Fleur Delacour and the surprising truth many listeners shared: we didn’t like her when we were younger, and we weren’t always sure why. Drawing on the post-episode chat, this reflection...
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- [00:00]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running.
- [00:07]
Professor Julian Womble
Why?
- [00:07]
WSECU Announcer
Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic Mountains to the Rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union this is the story of the one as an H vac technician, he and his digital multimeter are in high demand. So when a noisy office H Vac turns out to be a failing blower motor, he doesn't break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product information, he selects the product he needs to keep everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic Mountains to the Rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org to today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [01:36]
Professor Julian Womble
Welcome to Critical Magic Theory where we deconstruct the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Julian Womble and today is our Prof. Response episode on Fleur de la Cour. You see, this just kind of comes out when I have to say her name and I'm so grateful that I get the opportunity to butcher a French accent for you all to be broadcast. To many of you and that is just my plight in life and you are welcome if you needed a laugh. I hope that gave you one. Anyways, I want to thank those of you who participated in the post episode chat and for those of you who participated in the survey, this episode, as always was one that took a turn for me and I had a lot of thoughts on Fleur and I was really excited to talk about them. And then I think, well, maybe this will resonate with some people. But many of you came into the post episode chat and shared some things that were really, really amazing. And also like the way that you all had to kind of wrestle with yourselves through this episode. Because I think that one of the facets of, you know, revisiting Harry Potter, both as adults, but also as individuals who are trying to think more critically about this, is the reality that we internalize so many things and don't think anything of it. And especially the media surrounding some of the things that we internalize, reifies, hashtag bars our beliefs and our kind of presuppositions and some of the stereotypes that we lean into that are perpetuated not only in the Harry Potter universe, but everywhere. It's easy to not have to interrogate some of the things that we believe. And I'm really, really happy that the episode on Fleur really invited us to have to dive deeper into our own belief structures and not only what we believe, but how we arrived at that belief and how much of it still serves us. And so I'm excited to continue that journey in this episode because many of you brought to bear some of these things in the post episode chat. And I feel like it's a really great conversation to have in advance of some of the other characters that we're going to be talking about, but also because I think that we can kind of go, I don't know, nose blind sometimes. Because when you spend so much time in a world like many of us do in the wizarding world, you kind of just take your feelings and your thoughts about things, you know, for granted and you don't really interrogate them or think them through. And it makes me, as a professor person of life, feel good that I was able to invite to think more deeply, not just about a character, but about how we feel about that character and why we feel that way. And some of us double down and that is totally fine. I am, as you know, and I say this every number of episodes, my intention here is never to have you believe what I believe, but to really fortify why you believe what you believe. And sometimes that fortification process means tearing it down and rebuilding it. Sometimes it just means putting up more buttresses and saying, this is my hill and here is where I stand. And there is no wrong way to do that. And I am so happy that we got the opportunity to do that together with Fleur. Again, it's always the characters that we don't spend that much time with, which is why I'm so excited about Tonks. But we're not talking about Tonks right now. It's not about Tonks. It's about Fleur. Fleur de la Cour. Okay. And before we dive in fully, you know we got a bop. And you know that I was doing this so that I could prepare you for the bop, which is coming to you in three, in two, in one. Let's bop. I hope you danced y' all again. I just want to take the time to welcome you all back and to say thank you to those of you who participated in whatever capacity. I would be remiss to not invite you all to like share, do all the things that one does where pods are cast for those of you who don't make it to the end. I love reading the reviews on Apple podcast also. I just like getting feedback in general about the things that resonated with you. So if you don't feel comfortable being in the post episode chat, that's totally fine. Feel free to DM me on social media. Prof. JW on Instagram, which is where most of the time I'm finding myself these days because TikTok ProfW. Is undergoing something and it's a different place. But that's not why we're here. We're here to discuss Fleur de la Cour. And so that's what we're going to do. We're not going to dilly, we're not going to dally, we're not going to delay. Okay, so let's get into it. Let's get into Fleur de la Cor. As you know, for the Prof. Response episodes, we tend to break up the comments from the post episode chat on Patreon patreon.com Criticalmagic theory where you can join for free to be a part of this conversation. Okay, enough marketing, enough promotion. Back to the task at hand. And so we break it up into themes based on the conversation that was had. And the first theme that came up for us was one that kind of spoke to some of our internalized biases. And Olivia wrote, listening to this episode made me realize that I have always held a sort of negative opinion towards Fleur for basically no reason. And so I guess the misogynistic undertones that JKR wrote in did the trick on me. As a child reading these books, Rachel wrote, I had less than kind thoughts towards Fleur when she arrived in Goblet of Fire. I wanted her to fail because I was of the opinion she had been chosen to compete because of pretty privilege. After having listened to the episode, I have been forced to confront my own bias against her. And Fenty wrote, this is one of the values of a podcast like this. The opportunity to interrogate one. One's own. My own biases as an adult and in some cases find them very wanting, as here it's my turn, y'. All. Of course we have internalized bias against Fleur Delacour. We're supposed to. It's written so that we do. And I think that that's the thing that's at work in these books. And it's one of the reasons why I'm not the biggest fan of, you know, pretending as if JKR didn't write these books, because at the end of the day, she did. And she put in and imbued these books with all of the biases and prejudices that she believes and has. And some of them feel so warranted. Right. I think when we think about the idea of pretty privilege and all of these things, it's like we have watched time and time again the ebb and flow of beauty standards and people receiving things that we as other, that we don't believe they are deserving of. And sometimes they are, and sometimes they're not. We live in a society where we see people being privileged for things that are so far outside of their control. We see people, in an attempt to gain that privilege, doing or going to all kinds of lengths to change aspects of who they are as people for the purposes of gaining that privilege. And so there's no denying that that privilege exists. And the thing about privilege that is true is that when you don't have it, you recognize it much more than the people that do. And I think that that's why many of us really do have an affinity for Hermione, because my good sis clocks it. She recognizes it. I think the thing about it, and we'll talk about that in the next theme, is where she places the blame for it. But I think that at the end of the day, when we think about the notion of internalized anything, I think it is almost inevitable in this text because we are. We are really invited to love Hermione. And what's not to love? She's loyal, she's a good friend, she's smart, she is pretty. She just doesn't necessarily care that much about the maintenance of that and the utility of that in most of the moments that we are with her. But she's amazing, she's brilliant. She's all the things that many of us either want to be, are. Were. Are striving to be, whatever right she is, a lot of things. And especially for those of us who find ourselves in A place where we might not have felt as conventionally attractive, or we might not have been rewarded in the same way as other people who were seen as conventionally attractive. We might have been bullied by people that were seen as conventionally attractive. We might have resented those people. And so there's a lot of reasons why reading this text, reading about Fleur and experiencing her, would really dredge up things for us that feel very familiar. Because I think it's very, very easy to read Fleur as, like, a mean girl. And many of us did. And the reality that's interesting, right, is that we filled in the gaps ourselves with our own experiences. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I do think, and what I'm happy about, is that we had to also take the time in our revisitation of this to think about where that's come from. Is it still true? Because I think it's also so much easier for us to leverage those feelings against girls and women than it is against boys and men. And, I mean, and the reality is, right, that, like, historically, this is a narrative that is as old as time itself. And we live in a time now where it's really fascinating to, like, have to kind of recalibrate our own understanding of, you know, what is warranted reactions to certain things and what isn't. And when we think about Fleur and we think about our own internalized misogyny, y', all, we live in a patriarchal society. This book was written by someone who is a misogynist. We were children in a society that was already conditioning us to view women and girls in a very particular way. We were doomed from the start, if we're being honest. And some of us might have been much better at recognizing it from very early ages. But I think that those of us who were on the receiving end of some of the ire and rancor of the conventionally, Conventionally attractive crowd when we were in school. It felt good. I'm not gonna lie. It felt good to just be mad at a Fleur de liqueur. It felt nice to watch her not succeed, because it's like they always get everything, and she. That's why that skirt caught on fire, right? Like we were children. Pettiness is part of childhood. It's still part of my life and my lived experience. But what I think is more important is that in our revisitation of Fleur, many of us are now recognizing it and seeing it for what it is and recognizing the problematic aspects of it and working on ourselves and that's part of the process, right? Because the notion of these things being internalized is one thing. I think it becomes dangerous when we start to externalize, especially when we start to externalize without being critical of the things that we are thinking and saying. And we are currently living in a time where people are externalizing all kinds of things without being critical in any capacity whatsoever. And so I think that there is a way that it's, it's expected that we would have internalized this. Again, we're living in a patriarchal society. And if we are living in the United States, they're trying to make it even more patriarchal. Right? Like they are actively engaging in behavior. And I think that one of the things that when people say things like, well, books shouldn't be political, hello, we are internalizing politics every time we open up a book. I don't care if it's fairy smut or hockey smut or whatever it is, it doesn't have to be smut. Okay, everyone relax, okay? I'm just talking about the things that I like to read. Don't judge me. Relax. Judgment, I feel it. But there's no way that you can't internalize those things. And I think that there is a way in which, like, we have to be on our guard because authors are not writing in a vacuum and they are not necessarily always writing with the intent of like, you know, brainwashing people. But they're putting their beliefs into these books. And so yes, we were children and yes, we internalized some of these things, but now we're thinking critically about it. And loving something doesn't mean you can't be critical of it. And that includes yourself.
- [16:52]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running.
- [16:58]
Professor Julian Womble
Why?
- [16:59]
WSECU Announcer
Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [17:24]
Professor Julian Womble
This is the story of the 1. As the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, she knows the only thing more important than having the right safety gear is having it there when you need it. That's why she partners with Grainger for auto reordering. So her team members can count on her to have cut resistant gloves on hand and Each shift can run safely and efficiently. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. The next theme that we're going to be talking about is a continuation, but not necessarily about internalized misogyny, but rather about the idea of pretty privilege, which is something that came up a lot both in the episode and in the post episode chat. Vivian wrote, the majority of adult women know that if you so much as smile at a man on the street who says hello, they think they're entitled to a conversation or more. Fleur probably has to deal with that every moment of her life and found a defense mechanism to shut down unwanted attention. Mila wrote, seems like a way to put blame on a woman for men's actions. Very she was wearing that, so she invited it. Ill and Ray wrote, I can't help but think that a possible motivation for asking Diggory to the ball might have to do with constantly being approached, hit on, etc. Maybe Cedric was a safe person to her because he wasn't throwing himself at her. That must have been so refreshing for her. Let's, let's have this conversation. I'm so excited and happy that this came up because let's talk about pretty privilege because I think it's worth having a meaningful conversation about it. And I want to be clear because I know that some people might say that as a man I shouldn't be talking about pretty privilege. And I can understand to a certain extent why that might be the refrain. And I want to be so clear, my intention is not to mansplain the idea of it to you. Okay. I simply no, no, that's not what I'm trying to do. Um, but I do think that it is a worthwhile conversation because pretty privilege is above all privilege. And one of the things that I often say when people call me spoiled and to be clear, I am spoiled, but I can't be spoiled. This is what I say. I say I can't be spoiled unless I'm spoiled, right? Like I can't be spoiled unless someone spoils me. That someone is gentling myself. But anyways, that's not the point. We're not talking about that. That's not up for debate. We're not talking about, we're not talking about that in that same way. You can't be privileged unless you're privileged. And so then when we talk about the idea of pretty privilege, we tend to blame the person who is the recipient of privilege. But the privileging the act of privileging is something that is bestowed on someone, right? Like it is something that is given to them. Now it may be given to them because of something that they didn't earn. Generally it is. Or that was inherent to them. Generally it is, but it is given to them. Now it might be given to them by an individual, it might be given to them by an institution or a structure. But at the end of the day, privilege does not operate in a vacuum. It does not operate absent an intentional like delivering of certain benefits that if done correctly, the recipient is not aware of. When we talk about things like white privilege, one of the hardest parts of white privilege or any privilege is the reality that you are not supposed to think about it. If you know you're privileged and you try to fix it, you're messing up the system. When we think about the idea of pretty privilege, it's the same and many of us brought up in the post episode chat the idea of how it is that we are, you know, that we, that we tend to blame Fleur for the actions of the men who privilege her. And the text invites us to do that by way of allowing some of our favorite characters to be the ones that punish her. Ginny, Molly, Hermione. They are not looking at any of these men and boys askance for the way that they're treating Fleur. Because in many ways it's almost as if we believe it is Fleur's fault. And one of the things about privilege that I have had to learn as a scholar of race and identity and also as a privileged person, because I am, because I am a man, I am a CIS man. And there are many things in my life that I do not think about or worry about and I'm not supposed to. It is rare that I worry about my safety on the grounds of my gender. It is rare that I have to think about things like walking home late at night. I don't alone. Those are not things that I. I worry about. It is rare that I have to worry about during the daytime walking down the street and being hit on unless I'm in certain cities that I won't discuss because y' all are not about to get me canceled. But even then it's not the same. My, my perspective on those moments, even when they have happened, is often like, oh God. And not like, geez Louise, I might. Something bad might happen. I never worry about the idea of like rejecting someone and what that might mean for my bodily safety. And the thing is, is that I'm not supposed to think about those things in those terms. Because if I do, then I might actually be aware of the fact that, that we have a society that privileges CIS men like myself and punishes people who are not CIS men. And I might say, huh, that's bad, right? Maybe we should do something about that. And then I might tell other CIS men about it and they might say, huh, that's bad. Now, we are living in a time where that's not a thing. But part of the reason why it's not a thing is because we are not meant to see it. And so that when we think about the idea of pretty privilege, I think the thing that really sticks out to me in what the text invites us to think about is the fact that we are blaming Fleur and not the men. And that is how patriarchy persists. Because if we are looking at them saying, well, you shouldn't invite these types of things when you wear this, and you shouldn't, you know, if you don't, you know, if you don't want any trouble, then don't make any trouble. And I, and I was talking about this before, and I said it kind of in passing, but, you know, one of the biggest indications to me as I've gotten older and I think back on my time in school and in secondary school is dress codes. The number of rules that existed for girls that did not exist for boys tells us a story. I mean, some of these dress codes went so far as to say, don't girls, don't wear anything distracting, anything that might distract your classmates. Read your boy classmates. So that's why your skirts need to be a certain length. That's why your shorts need to be a certain length. That's why your tank top straps need to be a certain width. That's why there are all these rules and none of that existed for boys, because the strictures placed on it are not for the privileged people. It becomes incumbent upon the other people, the unprivileged people, to do this. So when we think about the idea of pretty privilege, it's really, really important to not only think about the recipients of the privilege, but the institutions, the structures, the people, the powerful, the powers that be that are bestowing that privilege. Because it's them. They're the problem. Men are the problem because we are the ones who are deciding what conventional attractiveness looks like, who gets to be beneficial, who gets to be the beneficiaries of that, what the benefits look like. If we want to even call them benefits, that's debatable. What gets to happen to the people who don't fit into the mold that we've created as. As to what gets to be attractive. Like certainly there are people who. And what else is important? Right. I'm doing this in kind of a gendered binary, namely because patriarchy operates with that in mind. But what else is true, right, is that like obviously pretty privilege exists both for. Across the gendered spectrum. Right? And we see that in these books too, right? We see again, Cedric, we see Tommy rhds, we see all of these men who are operating with this. But guess what, and we talked about this in the episode, they get away with it, they are not punished. Tom Riddle gets Hufflepuff's Cup. He gets away with literal murder. And nobody is thinking anything of it. Tom Riddle, not senior because they didn't have the same name. But the old, the elder was a wreck and a disaster. He was meant to. And he didn't have a care in the world because he had money and good looks. But nobody was making any sorts of claims about him. He wasn't being punished. And the biggest tool of the patriarchy tends to be women who have bought into it. Because now it doesn't seem like it's rooted in sexism. It seems like it's rooted in the protection of women. Sound familiar? There's a way in which the institutions that privilege certain people incentivize the enforcement of those structures amongst the people who the structure is working against. And then we become the police and we also become the buttresses that keep the system in place. It's why I'm not supposed to know that I should be aware of how privileged I am as a man. Despite being a racial minority, I'm still privileged. And there are a lot of ways in which these books invite us to look at Fleur and say, this is your fault, sis. And what I love about the conversation in the post episode chat is it's looking at the different. Looking at her from a different way. Maybe she was asking Cedric because he felt safe and they were champions and so they were. There wasn't a power dynamic there. And he was also good looking, which didn't hurt, but also meant that maybe he wasn't going to be like someone who was only with her for a certain reason. There's a way in which the enforcement of these things and the resentment that we hold towards the beneficiaries of privilege, sometimes I will grant it is warranted, but sometimes we've forgotten that privilege is both the recipient but also the giver and we're supposed to ignore the giver. And many of us ignored the fact that J.K. rowling is the giver of privilege in this text. And we took it at face value and internalized. See, we're taking it back to theme one, internalized all kinds of patriarchal understandings and misogynistic belief structures that led us to root for Hermione and Ginny and Molly when they were being mean to Fleur. And I think at the end of the day, the thing that is true about privilege, and I'm going to say it again, you can't be privileged unless you're privileged. And these two things aren't mutually exclusive. We can acknowledge people's privilege. We can acknowledge that white privilege exists, Right? And we can acknowledge that it's supposed to be invisible. And that part of the conversation that we're having right now that a lot of people don't like is the invocation of white privilege. Because you're not supposed to talk about it. Because if you make it real, then that means that people have to be aware of it. But what else is true is that the system is designed to keep it so that white people don't recognize their privilege. We see it in these books as well. Hermione is outrageously privileged. She has a wand if she had nothing else. But she's Muggle born, so everyone's like, well, she can't be privileged. Ron privileged out the wazoo. He's poor though, right? If you make it so that there are all of these caveats, then you can ignore the privilege and the system gets to keep working. And so we're not looking at the people who are bestowing the privilege onto Fleur. We're just looking at her and saying, girl, you did this.
- [31:58]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running.
- [32:04]
Professor Julian Womble
Why?
- [32:05]
WSECU Announcer
Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [32:36]
Professor Julian Womble
For the third theme, we're going to be talking about the rivalry between women. Not to be confused with heated rivalry, although sometimes those rivalries can get heated. And we do see that in these books. He was looking at you, Lavender Brown and Hermione Granger. But we are talking about the rivalry between women, not heated rivalry. That particular podcast is very much still spinning in my head. If I had the time, I would do it. Critical heated theory. Heated critical theory. Anyways, we don't have the time. We don't have the time. I don't have the time. I might make the time. But we're not talking about that right now. You see how the patriarchy really got me caught up talking about men. That's how insidious it is. It just. It just seeps in like that skates in on ice. You see Enough. We're not talking about that right now. We are talking about the rivalry that we see between women. Jaquea wrote for Hermione and Ginny. They are very much engaging in a need to tear Fleur down in order to feel better about themselves. Also, I hope I said your name correctly. If not, send me a dm, let me know how to say it so that the next time I can say it correctly that matters to me. So please do let me know if I didn't say it correctly. That's uncomfortable, but it mirrors how in real life women often get blamed for women, for men's actions, simply for existing a certain way. And Sari wrote, the way that Fleur is criticized for complaining about the drafty corridors when the Golden Trio do the exact same thing in multiple books is so hypocritical. Fleur enjoys the finer things in life and misses her home. And that's somehow a bad thing. It's really weird. It's my turn. I think that one of the things that really hits for me when we're talking about the kind of rivalry that we see between the girls and the women is one of very particular kinds of expectations. I think that many of you kind of hit the nail on the head with the kind of like hypocratical. Hypocritical. Hypocritical. Not the Hippocratic Oath. That's different. The hypocr. The hypocritical nature of some of the critiques leveraged against Fleur. I think some of our expectations are completely grounded in the reality that we just don't like her to begin with. And you all know, like, you all know what it is to like, just simply not like someone on principle without much founding or grounding. And you will just find little things that you don't like. And we see Hermione kind of doing that right. I think there's a lot of moments and some of it came up in the post Episode chat. There are a lot of moments where we kind of see Fleur, like making side comments to her friends, being like, oh my God, this food is so heavy, I'm not gonna be able to fit into my dress robes. Or like, girl, it's cold in here. And the thing about it is, like she's talking to her friends and Hermione just happens to be eavesdropping and overhearing and is mad at what she overheard. And it's like, at a certain point that's your fault, sis. Like if you didn't want to hear it, don't talk to somebody else. But I think that there is a way that Hermione from Jump is very anti Beauxbaton just in general, especially the girls from Beauxbaton, because I know in the movies we are shown Beauxbaton as an all girls school, but in the book there are boys. And I think that there's a way that from the moment they enter in, she doesn't like the way that the boys, particularly Ron is engaging and thinking about them because I think he says something along the lines of they don't make them like that here at Hogwarts. And her, she says like, they make them just fine. But her immediate reaction to him, right, is not to be like, shut up, Ron, you're stupid. But to be like, these girls are garbage. And so there is a way then that we see the kind of projection of that onto Fleur. And I think that again, so much of the rivalry and the criticism that's leveraged against them has so little to actually do with them. And I think that Draquia brings up a really good point as well about like, some of this doesn't even have to do with the boys. Some of this has to do with Hermione and Ginny. Because the thing is, right, and what I love about this episode and all the different threads that are being pulled together is that it's all kind of three different themes, but they're all kind of together in one. But the thing is, it's like patriarchy can also make you feel bad about yourself. And when you are not thinking about who is privileging the privileged, you blame the privileged. And you also, like, you internalize it and you blame them for your, you resent them for your own insecurities. When it's like, no, no, it isn't Fleur's fault that they decide that the system decided that, you know, people that look like her get to be praised and that people who read books and are you know, smart and engage in. Which isn't to say that Fleur isn't any of those things, but that's not the way that we understand her. Right. And so that, you know, what is prized and what is seen as desirable is not something that Fleur got to decide. Patriarchy did. J.K. rowling did. And we get to watch Hermione have to navigate this. And the way that she navigates it is by blaming the other women and girls. Same thing with Molly. And it is fascinating because, I mean, and that's. And it's. It is. It does mirror a lot of the way that we understand things in real life. Like, when you see someone who has something that you want or gets a thing that you think that they shouldn't have gotten or you feel that you should have gotten, yeah. You're going to be mad at them. Like, you know, I don't work the kind of job where, you know, people get raises over me, but, like, I do work the kind of job where you see people get, you know, their. Their work published in journals that you want to get published in. Right. And there's a way that, like, some of that is. It's annoying because sometimes you read people's work and you're like, that got published. Like, that's gross. And you're. And you resent the person who wrote it. Cause you're like, how did you do that? Like, that's stupid. But then you realize it's not your fault that it got published. You did the thing. It's the reviewers who reviewed it, the editors who decided that it was gonna get like, they are the ones who rejected me and said yes to you. And so when we think about the kind of notion of the rivalry that exists, part of it is placed onto women and girls to kind of navigate. And just grant me this moment. If you haven't watched Heated Rivalry, okay, you don't need to have watched it to understand this. But the reality is, is that, like, the two main characters who are in this heated rivalry, one of the facets of the rivalry is really the fact that everyone else around them created the rivalry, and these two had to live in it to kind of live up to the hype that was created. And so in that same way, right, when we think about the dynamic between Fleur and Hermione and Ginny, they created that. The patriarchy created it. And the gag is, is that Fleur doesn't even recognize it's happening. She's just flitting around the house, living her best life in half Blood Prince. Like, she's not even paying any attention to these. To these girls because she is like, whatever. She's blissfully unaware of the way that they think of what they think about her. Because the rivalry that Jenny and Hermione are in has nothing to do really with anything that Fleur is and everything that she represents and all the things that they feel they don't have, or all the things that they don't have that they feel she does have, or all the things that she gets rewarded for that they don't get rewarded for. And I think it is fascinating because so much of their disdain for her is really grounded in things that are about them. And it's also so funny when you get to see yourself or you get to see things about yourself reflected back at you by other people. It's not always great. I think, you know, one of the things that I hear a lot from parents, right, is that, like, when your kid does something that is. Like, that's something that you do and you. And it's. But it's not necessarily a great thing. And you're like, ooh. And I feel like there's a way in which a lot of the insecurities that Ginny and Hermione do have are reflected back at them. In Fleur in particular, the. But. But more than anything, it's also reflected back in the way that the men in their lives react to her and not to them. Um, and so it is really fascinating to kind of see it operate. But what else is fascinating to me is I'm like. But both Ginny and Hermione are like, crazily privileged in terms of their prowess. I mean, like, Hermione is the brightest witch of her age and gets all kinds of attention. Maybe not the kind of attention she, I guess, wants. Question mark? Because I'm like, why would you be jealous if you didn't want it? And Jenny is on the Quidditch team and in Half Blood Prince is bringing all the boys to her yard. Maybe she's born with it. Also, before I just made that joke and I make that joke all the time. But someone wrote, and I don't have the post episode chat up right now, but it was really funny. And this is a complete non sequitur, but they said, maybe he's born with it, maybe he's diggery. And frankly, that's brilliant. It's in the post episode chat. Thank you to whoever wrote that. I'm sorry that I can't name you explicitly, but I'm grateful for your Wit and for the time you took to write that, because it's brilliant. Okay, back to your regularly scheduled programming. There is a way that we. That the notion of this rivalry again is kind of built on a feeling of not being enough. Enough for whom is an important question. But I also do think that like, this is one sided. Fleur is out here just doing whatever she wants. And I think that that is tends to be the way that this goes. Right. And again, it's one of those things that when you don't explain privilege to people, when you don't explicitly say, like, that's your privilege and try to get them to see your perspective on a thing, that's what happens, right? Like you end up in these one sided arguments with people who have absolutely no idea what's going on. And I feel like that's what's happening here. And it is fascinating to watch because it also then means that we like, root for her downfall. And there are other characters that we do this for. Right? Like when I think about other characters that we see having rivalry, like I think about Rita Skeeter and like we were rooting for her downfall. Did I want her to be put in a jar and potentially killed if she tried to transform from being a ladybug now or a beetle? No, I did it, but I was rooting for. I wanted her to get her comeuppance. She got a little bit more than she bargained for. But we'll talk about that. This is not a Hermione episode. So on that note, I think that when we think about this rivalry and the way that it works, again, this does not exist without patriarchy, which means it doesn't exist without men promoting it and creating it and upholding it and incentivizing women to do the same and then removing themselves so that it looks like they were never in it to begin with. Okay, like this is an episode. We are exposing the patriarchy. This is a patriarchal expose. Foreign.
- [45:29]
WSECU Announcer
Isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running.
- [45:35]
Professor Julian Womble
Why?
- [45:35]
WSECU Announcer
Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling palooz. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [46:04]
Professor Julian Womble
The last theme that we're going to be talking about is one where we're thinking about who Fleur is, her understandings of loyalty and bravery and how we misunderstood her. Eric wrote, she could have left. She didn't. She got on that thestral. She did fight at Hogwarts. She opened her home as a safe house. She's a hero. Denish wrote, fleur is confident in that she knows herself. She may not be nice all the time, but she is kind. She speaks her mind, but when it matters, she totally does the right things. And Will wrote, fleur proves herself to be every bit of the hero Neville is. It's my turn. I have to say that it came to me from many sources that Fleur did indeed fight in the Battle of Hogwarts. And I know that many of us use it as our barometer for, you know, whether or not she's a hero and our own understandings of, you know, her bravery. I asked the question of what house she would be in and we really didn't come to a consensus. People said Hufflepuff. There were some people who said Gryffindor. And I love that. I love that she's a character who kind of is a bit elusive for us. I'm sure that that conversation will be ongoing. I do think that Fleur is outrageously brave and outrageously generous. And I don't think that those are new things that are true. They had their wedding in the UK so that everyone could be there. They literally did all of these crazy precautions so that Harry could be in attendance. Like, I can't imagine how many people, like, couldn't come. Like, she is in it, so undeniably in it and so willing to sacrifice so much of the things that she might want for the sake of the people around her. And she does so without much complaint, if any at all. Which is then ironic when you juxtapose it to the belief that she's complaining in Goblet of Fire at Hogwarts. I think that even if she was right, like, none of that negates what she ultimately does and the role that she plays in the war. Right? Like, even if she didn't fight in the Battle of Hogwarts, she is responsible for helping Harry get to the safe house that then led him to the borough. We know that the Death Eaters were out there playing for keeps. George lost an ear. Mad. I died. Like, this was not a game. And the idea that she said, yeah, I'll do that, and fought and survived tells us so many things. I don't think that she had to progress into Any of this. I think this is who she always was. I just think that we were invited to not see it. Even in the, even in the chapter of, of the Seven Potters, we're invited to look at her and see someone who is very unserious about the whole ordeal. Right? Like she's like worried about Bill looking at her. And you know, in the, in the movie it's like, don't look at me, I'm hideous. But the reality of it is, is that like, she's a warrior. Like, she fought. And if we are sitting here and would look at Hermione and say, like, good for you, girl. Like you were out here really doing the do, then we also, and Tonks as well, who we're talking about next week, like it is meaningful that we acknowledge the role that she played. And again, the loyalty and the bravery that she exhibits in her involvement in just that moment, not even including the Battle of Hogwarts. These are not her people. These are not like, these are people who she just met, a family she just married into, a country that she just got to. A war that she could have avoided but decided not to. We spent a lot of time during our Pure Bloods talking about, you know, the realities of not necessarily, or the reality of doing something that you didn't need to do. Fleur's involvement in all of this sums that up as far as I'm concerned. And the fact that we see her being so unflinching about doing it tells us a story. And I love this invocation of Neville because I think that, you know, at the beginning of our understanding of who Neville was, we define heroism in such a very specific way. And he was a hero at the beginning. And I think Fleur was more than what we thought she was at the beginning too. But it really took us a long time. It took a war for us to take her seriously. It took a level of like, self deprecation on the, on her part for us to believe that she was serious. We were the ones that had to come around to her. I think she was always this person and I think, you know, Fleur is one of these characters. It's like you can't judge a book by its cover. I think that we fell for the trap of believing that beauty and competence can exist inside the body of a woman, which is what J.K. rowling kind of invites us to believe. I think that we needed her to prove herself even though she'd already done it. And I think that at the end of the day, Fleur is just as much of a hero as so many of the other people who we said was a hero immediately. And I know that there are people, you know who you are, who don't believe that she's a hero. And to that I say, what more do you want to see? Like, what is it? What, what bar does she need to clear? She did more for the war than a lot of people who just fought in the battle. Right? Because if they hadn't have opened their home to Shell Cottage and said yes when Ollivander and Grip Hook showed up, Harry wouldn't have been able to figure out. And she healed them, tended to their wounds, fed them, took care of them along with Bill. Right. Like, but she was a caregiver like that. And that matters because if Ollivander had died, Harry wouldn't have had confirmation about the Deathly Hallows and the Elder Wand. If Griphook had gone, who's gonna help them get into Gringotts? Like, she played such a crucial role in this and didn't need to. Like, what would have happened if Griphook would have betrayed them? We know that he had the capability of doing it. He tried to do it to Harry and them with the sword, reasonably so, don't get me wrong. But like, what would have happened hypothetically? We don't know. Like, she did a lot. And I think we have to give her her flowers and not just because her name is Fleur, but because she deserves them.
- [54:22]
WSECU Announcer
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [55:04]
Professor Julian Womble
I'm not going to be doing a reflection this time because we've been reflecting this whole time. So with that said, this has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you liked today's episode, first of all, thank you. Please feel free to like, rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does. Where pods are cast, y'. All. The Nymphadora Tongue survey is up on Patreon and will be up on social media, up on the website, up in my social media link and all the things this weekend later on this week. It's not the weekend time anyways. You will get it if you haven't gotten it already. Please feel free to follow me on social Media, ProfW. On TikTok and Prof. JW on Instagram. You can also join us on Patreon patreon.com criticalmagictheory thank you all so much for your engagement with this with this particular episode. I had a really good time having these conversations and I can't wait to continue them. Until then, be critical and stay magical, my friends. Bye.