Dumbledore, the Great & (Reluctantly and Ignorantly) Powerful

Summary

Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast

Episode: Dumbledore, the Great & (Reluctantly and Ignorantly) Powerful
Host: Professor Julian Womble
Date: November 26, 2025

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Overview

In this third installment of the six-episode Dumbledore series, Professor Julian Womble guides listeners through a nuanced, critical exploration of Albus Dumbledore’s legacy, leadership, and understanding of power in the Harry Potter universe. Rather than venerating or vilifying the character, the episode probes the paradoxical and problematic aspects of Dumbledore—his self-perception, the ways he unconsciously wields immense influence, and how his actions reverberate through both the wizarding and non-magical communities. Listeners' survey responses inform a deep-dive discussion on Dumbledore's heroism, his leadership of the Order of the Phoenix, and the power dynamics inherent in his role as Hogwarts headmaster.

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Key Discussion Points

The Double-Edged Legacy of Dumbledore (12:13)

• Favorite Dumbledore Moment:
  Prof. Womble spotlights the pivotal scene in Half-Blood Prince where Tom Riddle (Voldemort) returns to Hogwarts seeking the Defense Against the Dark Arts position. This scene is a mirror—showing Dumbledore confronted with the consequences of his educational choices and the man (or monster) he might have become.
  • "Dumbledore can’t look away … this is the only moment in the series where we see … Dumbledore confronted with the full grown product of his own educational legacy." (13:27)
• The moment underscores how Dumbledore’s reluctant relationship with power shaped Tom Riddle's path and how power at Hogwarts can be both generative and dangerous.

Is Dumbledore a Hero? (20:32)

• Survey Results:
  57% said yes, 28% said no, 16% unsure.

• Listener Thoughts:

  • One listener distinguishes between the ends (heroic) and the means (questionable):
    “The end goal was good, but the means to get there were shady to say the least.” (21:05)
  • Another listener offers duality:
    “He saved the world, but did he need to do it in the way he did it?” (21:22)
  • Others challenge Dumbledore’s methods and impact on those around him:
    “A hero protects people. Dumbledore uses them.” (21:41)

• Prof. Womble’s Reflections:

  • Positions Dumbledore as a “reluctant hero”—integral to Voldemort’s defeat, but motivated by personal need as much as altruism:

    “I think Dumbledore needed to do what he did do, if for nothing else, because he needs to defeat Voldemort. Because Voldemort represents the him he could have been if he had said yes to Grindelwald.” (23:57)

  • Echoes the complexity:
    "Dumbledore is a necessity ... whether or not you think he's a hero or a villain, Dumbledore is a necessity." (28:32)
  • Ultimately concludes, albeit reluctantly, that Dumbledore is indeed a hero, but not an unproblematic one.

Was Dumbledore a Good Leader of the Order of the Phoenix? (31:44)

• Survey Results:
  44% yes, 41% no, 15% unsure.
• Listener Thoughts:
  • Many point to flaws: withholding information, lack of empowerment, the Order acting as an echo chamber for Dumbledore’s will.
    • “The Order of the Phoenix was a structure of secrets, and that’s not leadership, that’s control.” (32:44)
    • “The Order’s cohesion relies less on ideology than on loyalty to Dumbledore himself… allegiance produced not by empowerment, but by dependence.” (32:47)
• Prof. Womble’s Analysis:
  • Draws parallels between the Order and a cult, highlighting how Dumbledore’s mythos and the vertical flow of information foster unquestioning loyalty rather than healthy organizational structure.

    “He controls all of the information. Everything is need to know. No one needs to know but him.” (33:32)

    • Notes the lack of accountability and horizontal organization, which fosters dependence on Dumbledore and stifles checks and balances.

    “That level of fealty does not a good leader make. It makes a good dictator. It makes a good tyrant.” (37:57)

  • Ultimately punts on a definite answer, arguing that it depends on how you define the Order’s role—army, cult, or something in between.

Is Dumbledore a Good Half-Blood? (43:02)

• Survey Results:
  55% yes, 27% don’t know, 18% no.
• Listener Thoughts:
  • Some feel Dumbledore succeeds in bridging non-magical and magical worlds, others fault him for not leaning into his half-blood identity or leveraging it toward greater inclusivity.
    • “He doesn’t do anything with that identity. It’s like it matters and it doesn’t matter.” (43:36)
    • “Questionable about a grown man who is a half-blood but seems uninterested in the community he comes from.” (43:42)
• Prof. Womble’s Take:
  • Dumbledore’s connection to his non-magical roots is tenuous, mirroring how wizarding society treats ‘half-blood’ as a technicality rather than a meaningful bridge.

    “He is someone who is upholding supremacy … because he is someone who is upholding pure blood supremacist and like wizard supremacy ideology.” (45:38, 49:43)

  • He upholds (intentionally or not) wizarding supremacy, marginalizes Muggles, and does little to address structural inequality.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tom Riddle's Return:
  “Riddle says the quiet part out loud through his actions. This school made me. This school gave me my first devotees. This school can give me more. … Voldemort sees Dumbledore for exactly who he is. A man who fears the wrong kind of power and misunderstands the kind that he actually holds.” (16:16–19:11)

• On Power and Education:
  “Hogwarts is not a sanctuary from power. It is a generator of it.” (52:52)

• On Dumbledore’s Self-Deception:
  “He believes, foolishly, that because he avoided one form of power, that he has somehow avoided all forms of power.” (52:44)

• On Dumbledore's Leadership Style:
  “His way or the highway. He is the hell and the high water, and everyone is just okay with that.” (36:16)

• On Manipulation of Students:
  “He kind of ensures that he is [invaluable] by virtue of knowing the full prophecy, … he makes himself invaluable to the plan to bring Voldemort down.” (29:02)

• Reflection on Dumbledore’s Fundamental Flaw:
  “He fears domination but not devotion. He fears ruling adults but not shaping children. He fears the power that destroyed his sister but doesn’t recognize a power that might destroy his students. … the truth is Dumbledore underestimates the power he has because he does not recognize the myriad forms it takes.” (63:53–65:04)

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Major Timestamps

• [12:13] — Discussion of the Tom Riddle/Half-Blood Prince scene and its meaning for Dumbledore's arc.
• [20:32] — Listener survey: “Is Dumbledore a hero?” and extended analysis.
• [31:44] — Listener survey: “Was Dumbledore a good leader of the Order of the Phoenix?” with deep-dive on leadership, cult dynamics, and accountability.
• [43:02] — Listener survey: “Is Dumbledore a good half-blood?” Exploring identity and supremacist structures.
• [50:08] — Reflection section begins; Dumbledore’s confession to Harry at King’s Cross is dissected.
• [52:44] — Womble’s thesis: Dumbledore’s blindness to the power he holds at Hogwarts.
• [55:56] — The “spicy” take: Dumbledore’s view of teaching as powerlessness, and why that’s dangerously wrong.
• [59:14] — Illustration of educator power via academia parallels; Dumbledore’s lack of recognition.
• [63:52] — Deconstruction of how Dumbledore’s misunderstanding of power results in children fighting a war.
• [65:01] — Conclusion: Dumbledore’s true flaw is mistaking which forms of power are dangerous.

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Episode Reflection: The Unwitting Power of Dumbledore

Prof. Womble’s closing reflection ties together the episode’s questions: Dumbledore’s choices continually emerge from a flawed, incomplete conception of power—one that blinds him to his immense influence over children and inadvertently perpetuates cycles of violence, loyalty, and unchecked authority. While Dumbledore sees himself as having stepped away from “dangerous” power after his tragedy with Grindelwald, he fails to recognize the profound (and sometimes harmful) impact of his daily actions and decisions as an educator and leader. The real danger, Womble argues, is not in Dumbledore’s ambition, but his refusal to interrogate the quiet, ordinary forms of power he wields over the most vulnerable.

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Summary Table

| Segment | Topic | Takeaway/Key Quote | Timestamps | |----------------|--------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Opening | Legacy and Hogwarts scene | "Dumbledore can’t look away... confronted with... his own legacy." | 12:13–19:08 | | Heroism | Is Dumbledore a hero? | “Dumbledore is a necessity … a reluctant hero, but integral.” | 20:32–30:44 | | Leadership | His leadership of the Order | “His way or the highway. [He] makes a good dictator, not a leader.” | 31:44–41:41 | | Identity | Is he a good half-blood? | “He is someone upholding wizarding supremacy, however nuanced.” | 43:02–49:43 | | Reflection | Dumbledore’s view of power | "He fears domination, not devotion... he fundamentally misunderstands the form of power he holds.” | 50:08–65:04 |

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Final Thoughts

This episode encourages listeners to grapple with legacy, leadership, and the invisible forms of influence in both the wizarding world and our own. Through a mix of passionate community discussion and sharp critical insight, Prof. Womble demonstrates that loving Harry Potter—and its most celebrated characters—means refusing to accept the easy answers. The real magic, he suggests, is found in the tensions and contradictions that persist when we dare to ask, “What have we overlooked? What power have we left unexamined?”

"Be critical and stay magical, my friends." (68:51)

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For continued community discussion:
Join the Critical Magic Theory post-episode chat on Patreon.

Transcript

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[Professor Julian Womble]

Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Because loving something doesn't mean we can't.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Be critical of it.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I'm Professor Julian Womble and today we are on episode three of our six.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Episode series on Albus Dumbledore.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Y', all, it's time for us to buck up. It's time for us to get ready. The last two episodes were a primer. They were getting us prepared.

[Professor Julian Womble]

They were getting us in a place.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Now we're getting into the nitty and the gritty of it all. I purposefully went through and curated the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Questions in such a way that we would have chaos distributed through all of them. I did not want there to be episodes where it was like more chaotic than others, and I wanted to make sure that we had plenty of things to talk about in each episode so that no one felt like their voices were unheard. The last two episodes brought us a.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Lot to think about, to work with, to contemplate, and I have every faith.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That these two episodes to come for these particular set of questions will do the Same.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I recognize that some of my takes more than normal are a little hotter than others. That's okay. You all know the drill.

[Professor Julian Womble]

You are not required to agree with me. That's not the point of this entire exercise.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I say things that I believe.

[Professor Julian Womble]

If you don't believe it, that's not my business. I'm excited that you are willing to share it with us.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

So don't be afraid. There's no need for the preamble of saying I'm sorry, I disagree. No, the whole point of this is conversation for us to learn and grow with one another.

[Professor Julian Womble]

So if I said something, then you're like, that's wrong.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I'm excited. Meet me in the post episode chat. Make sure that it's there. Make sure your voice can be heard.

[Professor Julian Womble]

When I do the Prof.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Response episode so that I can have a chance to respond. But more than that, more importantly than that, so that other people can have.

[Professor Julian Womble]

A chance to either agree with you.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And bring me down low, which some people enjoy doing.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I won't name names, but you know.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Who you are or so that there are other people who can engage in conversation with you. As always, if you are making a.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Statement that feels very personal to you.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Make sure that that's clear to us so that our critiques can leverage. Can be leveraged in ways that don't.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Necessarily make it feel like you're being attacked. We're trying to avoid that as much as we possibly can. Sometimes it's unavoidable. What on a who?

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Unavoidable. And that's okay. We are all here as a community.

[Professor Julian Womble]

To learn and grow together.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And Dumbledore ask a lot of us in that endeavor. And so there are ways in which sometimes we have to just take a moment. Have you ever wondered why Albus Dumbledore, a man who claims he cannot be trusted with power, chooses to spend his life in one place where he has.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The most of it.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Or why, in a world full of adult magical people, it's the children who end up fighting the battles that the Order of the Phoenix was seemingly created to handle. Or what happens when a leader defines power so narrowly that he fails to recognize the forms he actually wields, especially over the people who believe in him the most. Y', all, we are, as always, getting into it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But you've had two episodes now to.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Perfect your beard bop. We did a bop bop for Snape. We're doing a beard bop for Dumbledore.

[Professor Julian Womble]

You've had time to get yourselves together to get ready.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

The moment has come.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Your Time has come.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

We are beard bopping in three, in two, in one, let's bop.

[Professor Julian Womble]

We need to talk about Harry Potter.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Satan. Sincerely hope that you danced, y'.

[Professor Julian Womble]

All.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Welcome back to Critical Magic Theory. My voice is good.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It's another night where I'm recording probably later than I should. And so that means that the vocals are gonna vocal for you yet again.

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And to that I say honestly, you're welcome. Thank you to everyone who who joined.

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Us for the last couple of episodes on Dumbledore in our post episode chat. Like I said, for the first episode.

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We had about 300 comments, y'. All. Aggressive, amazing, absurd, A words, A's all around. Okay. I am so grateful to you for.

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Taking the time to join us and spend the time responding to one another.

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And being in deep conversation with one another.

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One of my favorite things is being able to go back in and see what you all are talking about and.

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Kind of figure out what it is.

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That we're gonna be having our conversations about for the Prof. Response episodes. And so thank you all for your willingness to engage with one another in respectful ways. I really, really love it and also giving me a lot of fodder for our Prof. Response episodes. If you would like to join our Patreon, you can do [e-mail] Criticalmagic theory.

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You can join for free where you.

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Can join in the conversations on our post episode chat, which happens single episode that we do except for the Prof. Response episode.

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Because we're not doing a meta.

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A meta episode where it's like a Prof. Response or the response of the response.

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We're not doing that. There's one Prof. Response episode, but you can join us.

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For the post episode chat there. If you are a chronic overthinker or.

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A Deep Diver, you can also continue that conversation and have many, many more about many, many, many things.

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And in the Discord. The instructions have been posted on Patreon. But as always, if you'd like to.

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Find out how to do it, if you comment on any post saying that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

You'D like to know more about the Discord, someone will be there to help you and guide you in the direction of that space. It is a lot of fun. I have not dueled since my loss. I haven't. I've just been collecting galleons. Um, the Room of Requirement doesn't like me. It doesn't give me access to anything. I don't know what's going on. It's not my business. But anyways, all of that is there for you on The Discord. Speaking of chronic overthinkers, I want to.

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Welcome our new recruits, Matt, Savannah and Azzy. Thank you so much for joining the conversation and for helping this community grow. We are actually having our Chronic Overthinkers.

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Monthly meeting tomorrow, but this episode will not come out before then. So me saying that doesn't make any sense. But we are talking about a of lot our favorite ships in the fandom and so if you are a chronic overthinker, I hope you joined if you didn't know that we do one every single month. And if you are a deep diver, you can watch those conversations once I post them. Also, if you're a chronic overthinker who couldn't make it, you could also do that as well. All of that is available for you with a paid subscription on Patreon. Also, there's merch and I have created my however simultaneously concurrently and merch, there's a mug, there's a T shirt, there's a sweatshirt, and there's a hoodie. I think we also have some new things coming up from members of the community for the holidays and the proceeds from those will go to the charities.

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Of our choosing and we will get to choosing soon.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I'm gonna make a survey for us to fill out in that regard on and then post it on Patreon so that we can have a nice like merch drive situation where we can have some of the designs from our members and we can as a community donate for the holidays to the charities of your choosing.

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We'll make a list and then we will do what we do because, you know, democracy.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But anyways, I think that's all the announcements.

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It's time for us to open the Dumbledore.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That's what they say on the Alohomora podcast, which I think is very clever and very apropos for this episode. Anyways, Aloha Moura snitches.

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A little.

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[Grainger Announcer]

This is the story of the one as head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the H Vac is humming, and his facility shines with Grainger's supplies and solutions for every challenge he faces. Plus 24. 7 customer support. His venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Professor Julian Womble]

One of the trickier things about doing series on characters is that I always have to come up with like a.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Favorite moment, and that's harder for some.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Characters than it is for others.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And so as I was thinking about Dumbledore and I was thinking about what.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I wanted to talk about for the arc of the episode, one moment that came up for me that I actually.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Really do love, is one that happens.

[Professor Julian Womble]

When Tommy Ridz comes back to Hogwarts to ask for the Defense against the Dark Arts job.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Because oof. That moment, I think to me it tells us so much about Dumbledore and not just who he is or was as a teacher, but who he is still, even after all the years of guilt and restraint and self correction. And I love it because I think this moment in the book in Half Blood Prince really is a reflective moment for Dumbledore. A mirror Voldiva holds up to Dumby Dee. And in many ways I don't think Voldemort always getting. I'm always getting a messed up.

[Professor Julian Womble]

We'll talk about that in a couple of episodes.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Dumbledore can't look away. And this is the only moment in the series where we see, I think, Dumbledore confronted with the full grown product of his own educational legacy. Tom Riddle was his student. He was the one who went and found Tom Riddle and offered him a position at Hogwarts. This was a boy he taught. And now in this moment he's in the office sitting across from the man.

[Professor Julian Womble]

If we would even call Voldiva, a man at that moment that Tom Riddle.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Became and in many ways the man that Dumbledore could have become if he.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Had said yes to the temptation of old Grindy.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Because Tom Riddle doesn't come back to Hogwarts just to Retrieve the diadem and he comes back. Because he sees Hogwarts exactly the way that Dumbledore does. Not as fertile ground as a place to grow followers, as a place where allegiance is shaped before children can even know what allegiance is or who they are allegiant to. Riddle says the quiet part out loud through his actions. This school made me. This school gave me my first devotees. This school can give me more. And what's chilling is that Riddle believes that Dumbledore sees Hogwarts this way as well. In my reading, I honestly do believe that he thinks that Dumbledore is building an army too. Because that's what Tommy RHDS would do. And in many ways, I think that Moldy Voldy is right. Not because Dumby D intends to build an army although some could and would be reasonable in saying that he did, but because Hogwarts is where students learn to believe in Dumbledore. And I love this moment because I think truly that Voldemort sees this version of Dumbledore that Dumbledore refuses to see in himself. And the way the Dumbledores respond dead, naming him and calling him Tom and pretending it's because he's old is such a mask. It feels so familiar. It's that old person act of, oh, I'm just so forgetful. When really it's about power. It's about control. It's a reminder. I knew you before you knew yourself. I knew you before you were this person. And it's a moment that we've all experienced with someone who is an adult in our life who likes to remind.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Us of the power dynamic at work.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Who likes to remind us of what.

[Professor Julian Womble]

We were like when we were a child.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Whenever they feel like we might be.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Getting ahead of ourselves they always do the thing of trying to bring us.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Back to a place where they were comfortable. And here is the interesting thing. This moment is so damning because in many ways, Dumbledore is saying, I knew you before you knew yourself. But Voldemort is saying, I know you the way you refuse to know yourself.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The gall of it all.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But the reality of the situation is is that Dumbledore could have intervened in Tom Riddle's development as a child. He saw the signs. He saw the darkness. He saw the loneliness and the hunger for power and control and cruelty. The willingness to twist magic. But he did not step in, not in the ways that Tom Riddle needed. And yeah, to be clear, as he.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Gets older, Tom Riddle absolutely has agency.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And he definitely made his choices and.

[Professor Julian Womble]

He is responsible for the harm he causes.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But the reality is that Dumbledore watched as Tom Riddle shed his skin of childhood and became Voldiva. And he was there. And he watched as Hagrid was framed. And he watched this boy become a killer. He grew in the soil that was Hogwarts that Dumbledore tended. He learned and manipulated in the hallways that Dumbledore's mythos shaped. And his worldview was crystallized inside the school that Dumbledore was a faculty member in. And I'm not gonna place everything again on Hogwarts and on Dumbledore. But what I will say is that there is a way that it's so clear that the relationship between Al B D and Voldy V is one that looks, at least in part, very similar.

[Professor Julian Womble]

To the one that he had with.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Harry, where there was a very particular interest that Voldemort had in in Tom Riddle. So that when Riddle comes back, what Dumbledore is facing across his desk is in many ways the byproduct of his own education and what he offered to or in fact didn't offer to Voldemort. And that's why this moment is so powerful to me. Because I think it collapses everything that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

We are going to talk about in this episode that we've been talking about.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Because Voldemort sees Hogwarts exactly as it is. A place where power is nurtured. And Voldemort sees Dumbledore for exactly who he is. A man who fears the wrong kind of power and misunderstands the kind that he actually holds. This is a moment where Dumbledore has to look into the face of what he might have become, what he could have prevented, and what he still doesn't fully understand about himself. And I just love it.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

Just a reminder for this arithmancy lesson that we had.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

564 Responses for the ALBUS Dumbledore survey and for this episode we are beginning our conversation with a very light, easy, simple question. Is Dumbledore a hero? About 57% of us said yes.

[Professor Julian Womble]

About 28% of us said no. And about 70, 16% of us said, don't know.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Someone said, ultimately he is a hero but the methods by which he achieves the title are questionable. The end goal was good, but the means to get there were shady to say the least. I said he was a hero, someone else wrote, but I also said a villain because I believe we can hold both truths. He saved the world, but did he need to do it in the way he did it?

[Professor Julian Womble]

Another person wrote, I don't think Dumbledore is a hero.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I think he's someone who did what he thought was needed regardless of what it cost anyone else. A hero protects people.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Dumbledore uses them. Someone else wrote.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

As a teenager, I loved Dumbledore. As an adult, I find his methods concerning a lot of what he did that felt heroic when I was younger.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Just feels manipulative now.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Someone else wrote, dumbledore never gave up on the greater good. Any war against him and his followers would be brutal and costly. There can be no half measures when.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Confronting the forces of a would be genocidal God king. Every available resource must be evaluated, assessed and deployed.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And now it's my turn. Here's the thing.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I don't think I can ever guarantee one way to transition to my thoughts. But I think it will always be a song from here on out.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And that I can promise that I can guarantee. When I think about whether or not Dumbledore is a hero, I think many of you brought up some really interesting points because I think that as a kid, you're like, yeah, of course he is. And I struggle, right? Because I'm like, is the hero the person who does the work? Is the hero the person who tells.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The person who does the work to do the work?

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Are they both heroes? In many ways? You can't have one without the other. I mean, in theory you could have a person doing the work and not necessarily needing to have like a leader or someone there telling them what to do. And when I was thinking about this, I thought to myself, well, like to me, Dumbledore is less of a hero.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And more like Philoctetes, right? The like, trainer of heroes who, like, gets them prepared to do the heroic acts.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But then I kept thinking, okay, we gotta keep it a hundred.

[Professor Julian Womble]

We've gotta keep it consistent. We've gotta keep that same energy. And so when we've defined heroes in the past, I've often said that a.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Hero is someone who is doing something.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That they don't need to be doing that benefits people outside of themselves, right? That's been the Definition, that's what we've been using.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And in many ways I was like, well, is that Dumbledore's story? And in some ways I think we.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Could make an argument for yes. And I'm sure some of you will.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Meet me in the post episode chat, however, simultaneously, concurrently. And I'm also like, I think Dumbledore needed to do what he did do, if for nothing else, because he needs to defeat Voldemort. Because Voldemort represents the him he could have been if he had said yes to Grindelwald. And I think we cannot, we cannot underestimate how much what Voldemort wants, I mean, what Dumbledore. I'm doing it again. What Dumbledore wants to do is that which is not an inherently bad thing. And I'm not going to undermine the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Role that he played in bringing down Voldemort. He played a big role and it was important. And I know that we can't say, well, it's all about Dumbledore. I mean, I think we can save it a little bit though. I think in the last couple of episodes I feel personally like I've made a couple of pretty decent cases about.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Kind of what motivates Dumbledore and the way that we understand what his decision making skills are informed by. And I think that there's a way that like he is a hero insofar as that like he plays a very, very integral role in bringing down Voldemort. And many of you leverage Severus Snape and the role that he played in.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Bringing down Voldemort as a justification for why he was a hero.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I think in the spirit of keeping that same energy which some of you yelled at me all caps about when it came to Snape, I feel remiss.

[Professor Julian Womble]

To say that it's that Dumbledore is not one.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I also do think though that there.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Is.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

A selfishness or a not maybe selfishness isn't the right word.

[Professor Julian Womble]

There is a self imposed motivation that also informs the decisions that Dumbledore makes.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And that I think what Voldemort ultimately.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Represents is more than just like a.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Bad ideology to Dumbledore.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It is an ideology that cost him everything.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And I think there's a reason why.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Dumbledore is more invested in bringing down Voldemort than bringing down pure blood supremacy.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And I think that part of that is because of not only the role.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That Voldem, that Dumbledore, geez Louise, this is going to be a struggle for me for these episodes.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

The role that Dumbledore played in Voldemort's.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Upbringing and socialization in the magical world, but also because of what he represents and the fact that, because it's like.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

In some ways I wonder, you know, like, why did Dumbledore even get into.

[Professor Julian Womble]

This in the first place, right? Like Voldemort's Rising, obviously it's bad, duh.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But like, was there no one else? Like, why did he take up the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Mantle to do this? I'm interested to know what you all think in the post episode chat.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Like, why do you think at the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Onset first Wizarding War, Voldemort comes out and is a formidable force? What is it that transpired, do you think, that made Dumbledore say, like, I've got to do something and we've got to like counteract this.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Was it ideological? Was it personal? Was it a combination of the two? I don't know. I do think though that what else is true is that heroes can't exist or rarely exist without someone.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Getting them there. I was going to use the word helping or guiding, but the reality is that a lot of the way that Dumbledore got Harry to where he was was through manipulation, machinations and madness. And so I'm not gonna give him the benefit of the doubt by saying.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Oh, he was a helping hand.

[Professor Julian Womble]

He was a hand that stirred the pot and pushed Harry forward and gave him the confidence, whether founded or unfounded is up to you to feel like he could do what he needed to do.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And so there's a way that I think he's a necessity. Whether or not you think he's a.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Hero or a villain, Dumbledore is a necessity.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And part of that is because he.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Kind of builds himself out to be one. He kind of ensures that he is one by virtue of knowing the full prophecy, by virtue of withholding that information until such a time as he deems it necessary for Harry to know it.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

In some ways he makes himself invaluable.

[Professor Julian Womble]

To the ness, to the plan to bring Vodevi down.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And I think that I don't want to kind of remove the importance or.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The presence of his manipulations, but I also, you know, this is a question that many of you have brought up in the post episode chat.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Like, if not for what he did, then what? And I think I might get into.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That for our last Dumbledore episode because I need to think about it. But if you all want to help me think about it, Red, do my job for me, please. Sound off in the post episode shot. But this is a long and short way of saying I do think reluctantly.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

That Albus Dumbledore is a hero because.

[Professor Julian Womble]

What ultimately happens in in the same.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Way that many of you use the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Defense of like you could not have brought Voldemort down without Severus Snape. There's no way on this earth that Voldemort bites the dust without Al B.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

D. And so and he, yes, he.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Raised Harry like a pig for slaughter, there's no denying. But Harry was an equipped pig. Like he kind of knew what he needed to do at least by the end. And I'm sure that many of you will push back against that. But I think that there is a way that Dumbledore did the work of.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Giving Harry the tools that he needed.

[Professor Julian Womble]

At least enough to be able to successfully complete the the mission. And without what Dumbledore offered, I don't know that the mission would have been completed. And that has to count for something.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

The next question that we're tackling is whether or not Dumbledore was a good leader of the Order of The Phoenix. About 44% of us said yes, about 41% of us said no and about 15% of us said don't know. Someone wrote, albus Dumbledore was a complicated man who was heavily shaped by his own trauma.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I said he was a hero and I think a good headmaster, but he was spread too thin. I think the Order followed him because he was the only one who could handle Voldemort.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Another person said, ooh boy, let's go. This mess, this whole mess.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Weird owl.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Also, the Order of the Phoenix was.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Basically just him telling people what to.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Do with information he didn't share.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Another person wrote, not a good leader. He doesn't empower people, he uses them. The Order of the Phoenix was a structure of secrets and that's not leadership, that's control.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Another person wrote, the Order's cohesion relies.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Less on ideology than on loyalty. To Dumbledore himself a dynamic of pastoral power in which allegiance is produced not by empowerment, but by dependence. And now it's my turn. Here's the thing I think the question.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Of whether or not Dumbledore is a good leader of the Order of the.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Phoenix depends on how you view the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Order of the Phoenix.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I think in part, if you look at the Order of the Phoenix and you think of it as an organization.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That has many different functioning parts and that is supposed to flow fairly smoothly and be democratic in nature, then he's terrible. He's an awful leader.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He controls all of the information. Everything is need to know.

[Professor Julian Womble]

No one needs to know but him. He operates from a space of telling people what to do without telling them.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Why they're doing it. And it would be one thing if those things were not necessarily prefaced on.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The idea that like this was affecting the lives of people around them.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But like Harry's life hangs in the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Balance and Dumbledore's just making decisions. If, however, you are looking at the Order of the Phoenix and you say.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

It'S a cult in a way that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Is very similar to say, another organization that we've described more as a country club than anything else, read the Death.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Eaters, then he's great. Because I think the only way that Dumbledore's leadership skills come off as looking.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Good is if we buy into the idea that he is a charismatic cult.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Leader that does not have to provide any sort of explanation for anything. If we think about most armies.

[Professor Julian Womble]

There.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Is always a structure. There's a hierarchy of power, yes.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it is not horizontal, it is vertical. However, simultaneously, concurrently.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And there's still a chain of command. There is still a way that information flows from the top to the bottom that doesn't exist for the Order of the Phoenix. Information rests at the top and it's.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The trickle down economics of the anti.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Voldemort movement wherein information is just kind of doled out at Dumbledore's whim to the people he believes it to be most prudent and important for. And I think that there's a way that Beth's not effective leadership because there is also no accountability structure in place when you have a chain of command.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That exists the way that it does.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

In most military spaces. Part of the reason why it exists the way that it does is so that people feel empowered at every level to call out things when they go.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Wrong, to have witnesses when things are.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Not done correctly to corroborate any sort of misgivings that they may or may not have or to corroborate what is true and what is not true, what was heard and what was unheard, all of that exists for the sake of creating an accountability structure wherein the powers that be have to be justified in what they're saying.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Dumbledore offers us none of that for the Order of the Phoenix.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

It. It is his way or it is the highway. He is the hell and the high water and everyone is just okay with that. And I think that that taps into kind of what we were talking about.

[Professor Julian Womble]

In the last couple of episodes, about.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

The way that he wields his power and the fact that many of the people who are in the Order are students of his who come in with a preconceived idea of his greatness. And that, to me, reeks of cult.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I watch a lot of cult documentaries.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Because I'm fully obsessed. And I think there is a way that the mythos surrounding a lot of these charismatic cult leaders matters. The way that they set up a structure where everyone is coming to them for information. And even if they do have a right hand person, that person only knows what they are allowed to know and no more. There is a way in which and everyone is kind of scrounging and scraping to try to get as much information, not because they feel like it matters, but because they want to feel important. I think a lot about how during the first book, Hagrid spends a lot.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Of time bragging to Harry about how.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Dumbledore allows him to do these things.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And how he knows all of these things.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And that's between me and Dumbledore. And the text often tells us about how he puffs out his chest. And I think that there's a way in which everyone loves being in what they would consider to be the inner circle of Dumbledore, where he is reliant on them for certain things because he is someone who is seen as so inherently good. But that level of fealty does not a good leader make.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It makes a good dictator. It makes a good tyrant.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And maybe that is what this war.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Required of Dumbledore, that he be those things.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But when we think about what leadership, effective leadership, looks like, communication is a really big part of it. And because he's created what I could only call a cultish type vibe, it's.

[Professor Julian Womble]

A very academic, ac, erudite term, so feel free to take it if you'd like.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But he creates a cult like vibe, which then means that there is no need for accountability because everyone, for the most part, is bought in. And part of the reason why that's the case is whether intentionally or unintentionally, most of these people were his students in one shape or another. And So I don't know about you, but it's very interesting when I see.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Certain teachers that I've had, especially, like, the ones who I had in elementary school. I don't care how old I am, I'm always going to call you by whatever honorific. I'm never gonna call you by your first name. I'm simply not just.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I'm not gonna do that. It doesn't make me feel powerful. It makes me feel disrespectful.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I'm just not gonna do that.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And I think that there is a way that, like, no one approaches Dumbledore. Even if he were to say, like, call me Albus, they never would. And even if they did, it would be because he asked them to, not because they see themselves on the same plane. And when we're thinking about effective leadership, absolutely.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Hierarchy can exist, however, simultaneously, concurrently.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And leadership has to communicate. Leadership has to give information. Otherwise you are just hoarding things and expecting people to just do your bidding as you see fit. And of course, within hierarchy, there has to be an implicit level of trust about, well, we trust you enough to do what's right by us, for us, as our leader. But there's also a way in which soldiers know what the end goal is, whether the directives, what's happening, something, anything that offers them some semblance of understanding.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Dumbledore is not invested in that.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He keeps his power so close to the chest. And I think there are a lot.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Of reasons that that's the case and that we'll get into in the reflection for this episode.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But at the end of the day, I think that how we understand whether.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Or not he's a good leader for the Order of the Phoenix is really.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Contingent upon how we view the role.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Of the organization itself.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Is it an organization? Is it a country club meeting? Is it a cult? Understanding the way that we view the grouping will inform, at least for me, the way I understand whether or not he is actually good. And so I'm gonna punt here and say, I don't know. My gut instinct is to say he's.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Not good because he doesn't communicate.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But again, I think, are the members of the Order of the Phoenix expecting him to communicate? Or are they so bought in that it doesn't matter? Are they looking for the information that we wish they had? Or is that just us projecting our own desires and needs for information so that we can feel a part of something effectively onto these characters? You see, like how, like, it's tricky. It's hard. And so my answer here is not concrete, but I think neither is that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Question, which is why there's a little bit of chaos in terms of the answers. Because it's kind of 44% yes, 41% no. That's like pretty strong and stark in terms of how we understand the idea of good leadership. I know we'll get into this in the post episode chat and I simply cannot wait because I wish I had an answer like it depends because I.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Don'T think I don't know is right for this.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Not for me, but I think it really does depend.

[Apollo Announcer]

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[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Is Dumbledore a good half blood?

[Professor Julian Womble]

About 55% of us said yes, about.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

27% of us said don't know and about 18% of us said no. Someone wrote is he a good half blood? I guess because he's the one in the books that successfully bridges the two worlds. Someone else wrote Albus Dumbledore falls somewhere between being a good or a bad half blood because he doesn't do anything with that identity. It's like it matters and it doesn't matter. And that's the problem. I think there's someone else wrote, I should say I think there's something questionable about a grown man who is a.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Half blood but seems uninterested in the community he comes from, uninterested in responsibility.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

To personally address the mistakes he has made. And now it's my turn.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I wonder how many songs I can just make up of me saying that I guess we're gonna find.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I think that Dumbledore is okay, I will say.

[Professor Julian Womble]

This before I actually give my answer.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I think that what we have to remember about being a half blood is that it is the kind of identity that contains multitudes.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I don't mean that in like a proverbial sense.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I mean that literally. Like everyone who isn't a muggle born.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Or a pureblood is a half blood.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And so when we think about the notion of bridging the two worlds, we have to think about the fact that like some of these compositions of half bloodedness are not ones that have any.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Connection to the non magical world at all.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Now, in many ways, I don't know that that's the case for Dumbledore because Kendra Dumbledore was Muggle born, however, simultaneously, concurrently. And she is someone who's pretending to not be, who's pretending to be pure blood. And as a result of that, she is not going to bridge that gap. She's not going to teach her kids how to engage in anything other than the magical world. And you know, I think that again, in many ways that's the plight of particularly being Muggle born. Right? And it's also the symptom of being part of a system where your identity is attached to something that no one can see. So it's really attached to how you perform. And so I think that in a lot of ways Dumbledore is a good half blood. If we're using the more like morbid.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Definition of upholding pure blood supremacist and like wizard supremacy ideology, I think he's.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

A bad one if we're thinking about the notion of bridging the gap because he actually doesn't. And again, I think this is a really important moment for us to think about because to me, Dumbledore and I say this every single time we think.

[Professor Julian Womble]

About, you know, Voldiva and what he.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Represents is that like the greater good in this situation is bringing down Voldemort. It is not upending anybody's supremacist structure.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That is not Voldemort's cheese Louise.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

That is not Dumbledore's intention. He wants to bring down Voldiva. He is not interested in any of the other stuff. And my students and I just finished.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Reading Half Blood Prince for class and.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

One of the things that I often.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Think about and I just had my like, Harry Potter reading group today and we were talking about the first couple chapters of this book.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And one of the things that always stands out to me in this book is that Dumbledore shows up to the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Dursley's house and has absolutely no respect for them whatsoever. No respect for their time, no respect for their ability to consent to magic being done.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And he, you know, and I talked.

[Professor Julian Womble]

About this in the last episode.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Like he, you know, really does castigate.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Them for the way they treated Harry, blah, blah, blah.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But what is true about his treatment.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Of them is that it is very.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Much in line with the way that we see magical people treat them. Magical people who may not subscribe to pure blood supremacy, but absolutely 1000% subscribe to Wizarding supremacy. It's how we see Hagrid, treat the Dursleys. It's how we see the Weasleys, treat the Dursleys on multiple occasions. It's how we see Dumbledore in this moment treat the Dursleys. And I think it really does speak to his understanding of himself and his positionality not only just as like the greatest wizard of all time, but also just as a magical person in a non magical space. And so I think that when we think about whether or not Dumbledore is a good half blood, again, I think by the more negative metric, absolutely, because he is someone who is upholding supremacy when we think about it through the context of the more idealized version of building the bridge. No, but I think he doesn't have the tools. Like that's not how he was socialized.

[Professor Julian Womble]

He wasn't socialized to be the bridge builder.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He grew up in a magical household and everything he does is magical. And he's exceptional at magic. I mean when we think about even the moment when he goes to see Tom Riddle at the orphanage and the fact that he is so comfortable getting that matron lady drunk as a skunk to get information out of her and forging documents to try and see the child, everything about what he does is steeped in schemes, scams, plots and plans as it pertains to non magical people. And I think that part of it comes from the fact that he simply doesn't believe that they should be dead.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Because they can't do magic. But I think he still believes he is superior enough to them that he doesn't have to give them the kind of respect of that their humanity might warrant to us now.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And I think that that's the insidious.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Part of some of these supremacist ideologies.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Is that they don't necessarily the bar is in hell in terms of what it takes to clear it. And so yeah, sure he's not mean to Muggle Borns, but simultaneously, concurrently and he is leveraging his own power against non magical people in ways that they can't defend themselves from. And that to me is such a magical world, a wizarding world thing to do. And so you know the definition that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I personally like is the one about whether or not you're upholding pure blood wizarding supremacist ideology. And the answer to that is yes. So the answer to whether I think he's a good half blood is also yes.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

We have now reached the portion of the episode where I am going to reflect. I want to begin this reflection With Albus Dumbledore's own words to me, it's the clearest explanation he ever gives about how he understands power and why it frightens him. In the King's Cross chapter of Deathly Hallows when Harry finally confronts him about the choices he made, the secrecy and manipulation, and the deliberate loneliness he crafted into Harry's childhood, Dumbledore offers something like a confession. He tells Harry that as a young man, he discovered something terrible inside himself. That power was his weakness and his temptation.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That his relationship with Grindelwald and the.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Intoxicating ideas they shared about remaking the world awakened a hunger in him that frightened him. A hunger that, in his view, ultimately.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Contributed to the circumstances that led to his sister's death.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

That moment taught him, he says, that he could not be trusted with certain kinds of authority. He refused to become Minister of Magic because he feared what that level of influence would unlock in him. Even when he later accepted the title of Supreme Mugwump and Chief Warlock, he stepped away from them quickly. He believed he needed to distance himself from political power to remain a good man.

[Professor Julian Womble]

So he chose Hogwarts.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He chose teaching. He chose what he believed was the least ambitious, least dangerous path he could walk. And this is the Dumbledore we meet in that chapter. A man who thinks he has solved the problem of himself by avoiding the kinds of power he once misused. But that confession, while honest, is incomplete because Dumbledore is talking about one kind of power only. The Grindelwald kind. The Voldemort kind. The political kind. The world breaking down and reshaping kind. The kind that allows one to impose their will on other adults. What he never considers in that conversation is the power he still has. In fact, it's power that he wields every single day. The power that he never interrogated or feared or. Or thought would or could cause harm. And that's the power he holds over children. To me, this gulf, this gap that exists is where his understanding of himself stops. He believes, foolishly, that because he avoided one form of power but he has somehow avoided all forms of power. He's not the Minister of Magic, so he's safe. He's a teacher. He's headmaster. That's harmless. But Hogwarts is not a sanctuary from power. It is a generator of it. Many of us have said time and time again, so you don't go to be the Minister of Magic, but then.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Your decision is to go and be.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

The headmaster of the school where you can form and mold the minds of generations and generations and Generations. And that's what he does again in that moment with Tom Riddle, when he comes back to get the Defense of God.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The the what?

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

The Defense against the Dark Arts job. He returns to the castle, he looks Dumbledore in the eye. And he doesn't just want the job for money or prestige. He wants it because he understands something that Dumbledore seemingly does not. Hogwarts is the place where loyalty is formed, where ideology is shaped and molded, and where children can be shaped and molded into followers, believers, disciples, soldiers. I think Riddle assumes that Dumbledore must understand this. He assumes that they are both playing the same game, just on either side of the spectrum. He assumes that Dumbledore is building an army of young minds, deliberately or not, because that is exactly what Tommy Rhodes would do.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But Dumbledore rejects him with an almost naive certainty.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He truly believes he is above that kind of influence, that he's stepped away from the dangerous kind of leadership and that running a school is a humble act rather than a political one. He even chastises and condescends to Tom Riddle in that moment, as if to say, I know what you're up to, and I know why you're wanting to come. And what I appreciate about Voldiva in this moment is that he doesn't shy.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Away from that reality.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He's like, yeah, that's exactly it. But also it seems to say, like, of course you understand it, dude. You're doing it. And this is one of the only moments in the series where Voldemort sees something about Dumbledore that I don't think Dumbledore can truly see about himself. That being headmaster is, in fact, an outlandishly profound form of power.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And now this brings me to a.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Take that might be what some would call a little spicy, but I want to name it because it feels important. And if it spurs you to the.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Post episode chat, so be it.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I think that Dumbledore believes that being headmaster is beneath him. Not necessarily beneath him. Personally, I don't think he holds that kind of contempt. But I think it's beneath the category of influence he believes can corrupt him. I think his internal monologue says something.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Along the lines of, I can't be.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Minister, I can't hold political office, I can't shape the world from the top down, but I can teach. Because teaching is safe, it's small, it's humble. Which is, to me, fascinating because it reveals something deeply ironic about him. Dumbledore subscribes to the idea that teaching is what people do when they are not powerful enough to do anything else. He literally, I think, is embodying this idea of those who can do and those who can't teach. And what's so fascinating is, and any teacher will tell you, but I think there's a specific thing about teaching at the collegiate level because like, obviously when you're teaching younger kids, there's a very different vibe of power.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But not even at the collegiate level.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Teaching graduate students is a very interesting space to be in because you realize at least I have how much power you hold, right? Like so much of this job in academia is reputational and you've realized very quickly that people read your work and they become like self admitted fans, that's the language, fans of your research. And you hold influence and power over.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Whether or not they get jobs, whether.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Or not they graduate, whether or not they move forward in the career at all.

[Professor Julian Womble]

For those of you who are graduate students of PhD programs or doctoral programs right now, this is not meant to scare you at all. Deep breaths, friends. You can do it. I believe in you.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

But it is to say that, like, it is a very interesting feeling. And I remember the first time I ever felt it, the first time I ever recognized, like, oh, I am a person with power, an influence. And it was when a graduate student asked me to do. Or no, no, no, when I asked a graduate student to do something for me, like to do some research for me. And they hopped too. And they were like, what else do you need? Do you need anything else? Like, I'm just so excited to be working with you. This is so amazing. Da, da, da. And like, I look up to you so much and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, if I was anyone else, this might go to my head and I might let this inform the way that I operate and the way that I treat this person and my own understanding of myself.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Educators are very powerful people, but I.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Don'T think that Dumbledore believes it. I think that he believes that teaching is the absence of power, that Hogwarts as an institution is an antidote to his ambition. I think he doesn't even consider the fact that the students are susceptible to the kinds of leadership that he thinks defined his youth and that arrogance and the assumption is what is dangerous. Because if you think that the role you're in is beneath power, then you never examine the ways in which you hold it. If you think that teaching is apolitical, you never interrogate the curriculum you create or you allow others to create. If you think leading children is harmless, you never Ask whether your choices are shaping them in ways they can't understand. If you think that the classroom is a neutral space, you never question how your presence defines what bravery looks like or righteousness, or responsibility. And I think this is why Dumbledore is so cavalier about who teaches at Hogwarts. Why outside of the curse that Voldiva.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Put on the position, the defense against.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

The dark archdial becomes a revolving door. Why he doesn't care that Benz is still teaching History of Magic unchallenged. Why Trelawney remains there even when she falters. Why he never meaningfully intervenes in the school's structural inequalities. Because he genuinely does not believe that this is where power rests. I think he believes that the stakes are low and that his influence in this space is minimal. He thinks that the ones who are good will rise and the ones who aren't, won't. So he treats school leadership like a side quest while simultaneously popping in and out of the Ministry of Magic and basically being an advisor to the Minister of Magic, but not quite proximity to power, but not quite taking it. And then when we look at the Order of the Phoenix, we see a.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Shift, we see a difference, a meaningful difference.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Because there, Dumbledore does believe that he has power. And I think that that's why he centralizes everything.

[Professor Julian Womble]

He hoards information like some sort of dragon.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He refuses to delegate any meaningful authority. Moody may get fragments. Hagrid may get orders. They may be told, go and stand sentinel outside of the Ministry, the Department of Mysteries, but in the Order. I think Dumbledore has a very particular perspective on his power. I think for the Order, he feels.

[Professor Julian Womble]

That his choices could ruin people.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I think he actually fears corruption. I think he fears consequence. So he tries to carry everything alone. I think he believes that if the buck stops with him then no one else can be harmed by his choices. But that too is its own kind of selfless, those lacking self awareness kind of arrogance. It's the arrogance of a man who trusts himself more than he trusts anyone else. Someone who believes that he has to bear the moral weight so that no one else has to. Sounds like hairy. Because I think at the end of the day, and the point that I'm hoping that I'm making is that your intention and your belief about your power doesn't change how your power is viewed by others, by people who look up to you. So at Hogwarts he underestimates his power and in the Order, he overestimates it. And in that contradiction, children, literal Children end up fighting a war that adults were too under trained or, or under informed or underled to fight themselves. Because the adults feel the limits of Dumbledore's leadership but the kids don't. In the minds of all the children who meet him, he's omniscient, omnipresent. He's all good. He is the center of all things moral. Their belief in him is not complicated.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The way that the adults is.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

It is so pure and surrounded by this kind of cloud of mythos and mystique and enigmatic fervor and weight that he occupies. Symbols carry weight. Symbols demand loyalty and they shape choices. So when we return to that king cross confession and hear Dumbledore say power is my weakness I think, I hope that we can also understand something else. Now he's only talking about the power he once misused because he doesn't recognize a power that he never stopped using. Dumbledore fears domination but not devotion. He fears ruling adults but not shaping children. He fears the power that destroyed his sister but doesn't recognize a power that might destroy his students. And this is the real conundrum that is Albus Dumbledore.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It's not just because he's manipulative or.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

That he's careless or that he's cruel but that he fundamentally misunderstands the form of power that he holds and the form of power that he passes on. Because the truth is Dumbledore underestimates the power he has because he does not recognize the myriad forms it takes. Power is not determined by self perception. It's determined by the beliefs of the people who follow you. And their belief in him, not his belief in himself, is what moves him to act. I often tell my students all the time laws are only as good as as people who believe in them. Leaders only lead for as long as people follow them. So when we think about the relationship that Dumbledore has with power I think what we see, maybe even a little.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Clearer now after this reflection, is that.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

He'S only focused on the stuff that led to his downfall. He's not reflecting and thinking about the things that make him the great wizard that he is now. He's not considering the fact of what people are taking into account when they follow him now he overlooks that power and that is the power that shapes the lives and the deaths and the torture and the abuse of the children. That I don't think he ever truly meant to lead but does so not because he is trying to make child soldiers but because he's too blind to the reality of what it means to be himself, to recognize that that's exactly what he's done.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you've liked today's episode, first of all, thank you. Please feel free to like, rate, subscribe.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

And do all the things that one does where pods are cast. If you want to follow me on.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Social media, please feel free to do so rof jw on Instagram and profw on TikTok. Don't forget to join us on Patreon patreon.com Criticalmagic theory for the post episode chat where you can join for free and be part of that conversation. Or you can be join as an outstanding owl, a deep diver or chronic overthinker.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

I just want to hear from you and everyone else does too. Don't be afraid to join. It's a great place even if you just want to lurk in the background and see what the girls are talking about.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Girls is a genuine inclusive term. We invite you and hope to see you there y'.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

All.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I can't wait to see what we get up to. I know there were some takes in this one and I know that you all are going to take them and run with them.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Until then, be critical and stay magical.

[Professor Julian Womble]

My friends.

[Co-host / Critical Magic Theory Host]

Byee.

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Tired of juggling sales tools or spending hours on prospecting just to book a few meetings. Meet Apollo, the go to market platform for finding leads, connecting with buyers and closing deals all in one place. Apollo gives you access to over 210 million contacts and AI that handles all your busywork finding leads, drafting emails and even prioritizing your day. So stop paying for five different sales tools when one does it all. Visit Apollo I.O. and sign up free today.