Professor Julian Womble (0:00)

Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the Wizarding world of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Julian Womble, and today, y'all, today we are going to be diving in to Queen Lab Lab herself, protector of bunnies everywhere, the girlfriend of Wan Juan, the one, the only, Lavender Brown. Now, I have to say that many of us came with a lot of angst, a lot of derision, disdain for our girl Lavender. And I can't wait to dive in, because you know that I love chaos. And I wanted our last pureblood survey to be one that brought chaos. And you said, is that what you want, Julian? Then that's what we're gonna give you. Some of you wrote me on Patreon and wrote me in my DMs on Instagram that you thought you didn't have anything to say about lavender, but then you found it, and didn't you find. The responses we got for this episode were incredible, and I can't wait to share some of them with you, because I feel like there was a lot more chaos than even I expected. And I expected chaos because when you're dealing with someone as chaotic as Lavender, it's like you can't not have chaos. And yet somehow you all upped it again, as you often, always do. Often, always do. Okay, you get it. Often, always. You get it. Okay. Someone is judging me right now, and I don't like that, but I respect that. Y'all, this is going to be such a fun episode, because there are so many things about Lavender that I think are open to interpretation and open to investigation. And I think that there are ways that we need to think about how we approach this particular character and the way that we understand our own Conditioning by J.K. rowling to understand who she is. Have you ever wondered whether Lavender always had feelings for Ron or how relatable she is to us as readers, even if we don't want her to be, or why the fandom is so hard on her? Y'all, we are getting into every single one of those things in this episode. Lavender is gonna be our last Pure Blood. Because so many of you have come into my DMs and told me that y'all are over it, that you want to move on to the Half Bloods because that's where the meat and potatoes are. And I said, you know what? You got it. There are going to be a few extra kind of maybe mini bonus episodes that I'm going to do on a couple of other purebloods that we didn't get to, that you all have requested. But as for the surveys, this is it for us, all right? We are done with purebloods. We made it through. And I feel like this is the perfect person to do this with because it does not get any more chaotic than lavender. She brings such a. She brings such an energy to the series, particularly Half Blood Prince, when we really get to spend a considerable amount of time with her. She also, though, invites us to have to confront some of our biases. She invites us to have to confront the way that we've been socialized in these books by J.K. rowling, to view her character a very specific way. And she also invites us to think about why. Why is it that we see her the way that we do? Many of us acknowledge the fact that she's just a teenage girl, but then we would say that and then drag her for filthy. And I'm wondering, you know, it's such an interesting thing for us because I wonder to the extent to which many of us either forgot what it was to be 16 or we remember, and we're doing a little revisionist history as to our own experiences as 16 year olds. However you want to slice it or dice it, y'all. There's a little bit of lavender in all of us, and I hate to be the one to say it, but there is. And there are also some really beautiful things about lavender that we have conceptualized negatively, namely, because many of us view her through the lens of an author who hates femininity, and we view her through the lens of characters who also, because they are the byproducts of this author's ideology, don't like her. But don't worry, we're getting into every bit of it. And we are so fortunate because I got to sit down and have a chat with one of the chronic overthinkers from Patreon, Cassie, who brought it so hard, y'all. I was shaken to my core. I got a completely new outlook on this character, and there. There's a take that she took that took us all the way there. Okay? And I can't wait for you all to hear it, because I think that some of it really holds a mirror up to us, and I don't know that some of us are gonna like it. And that's okay, because part of critical thinking is sometimes being uncomfortable with the truths that the thinking brings about. But before we get. We get comfy or uncomfy, you know what we have to do you know what has to happen, we have to bop along to the theme song, y'all. This is. Well, I don't know if this will be our last pure blood bop, but, you know, the fun never stops. Hashtag bars. But this is. This is an important one for us. And I think that this is a moment where we just need to really stretch and get ourselves together. Because the reflections that we're about to have to do might be taxing for us. And so we've gotta get those endorphins up. Okay? And so let's get to bopping in three. In two, in one. Let's go. We need to talk about Harry Potter, y'all. I hope you danced and I hope you really, like, got down. Okay. Unless you are driving, in which case your eyes need to be up and on the road. Focus. 10 and 2, 5 and 7. You know the rules. You know that I will not be to blame. I also want to say that I don't want you dropping it low if you can't get back up. Someone said that that was their story and I said, okay. And I need you all to have a level of discernment about whether or not that's your story. If you can. If you've got Megan thee stallion knees and you can, like, get yourself back up. Good on you. If it so happens that you did drop a low and you can't get back up, you always need to make sure that you have your phone nearby. Okay. And that you are at least home. I recommend dropping it low on your bed so that if you can't get back. That did not sound right, but you get what I'm saying. So that you can just lay down. Okay. I don't want to hear don't anyone get on the Patreon talking about this particular moment. Okay? It was a recommendation that was meant to be helpful. Oh, get your minds out of the gutter. Okay. Immediately. Good goodness you all, please. Oh, my gosh. I want to take this time to welcome any new listeners who have joined us. Either you've just caught up, you've been away for a while, or you just miss being with us over the last couple of weeks in between episodes. Welcome. I also want to take this time to thank those of you who joined us in the post episode conversation about Merope Gaunt. Y'all. If you haven't checked it out, I highly recommend doing it. It's one of the things that I love the most and that we have really kind of risen to the occasion on which is finding so Many beautiful nuances in characters that we don't spend a lot of time with. And many of us had a lot to say about what we discussed in the episode on Merope and you all brought it to the conversation and it was so good and so nuanced and so interesting. And it's just been so much fun to kind of watch that particular aspect of our community grow. And I love it even more when it's characters that we just think, oh, we don't have a lot to say and yet you find things to say and you share it with one another and it allows us all to kind of grow in our understanding of so many things. And I think that that is so incredible. So if you are interested in joining us in the post episode chat, I've also started doing this kind of question of the week thing, which is basically just me asking chaotic, crazy questions that you all can spend your time answering. I normally drop them on Sundays at 10am and they're just a lot of fun. It allows us to kind of just operate and nerd out outside the context of any individual episode and just be the big Harry Potter nerds that we are. And I really enjoy that and creating that space. And if you are interested in joining as a paid subscriber, because all of the things that I've discussed thus far can be accessed via Patreon for free. But if you want to join as a deep diver or a chronic overthinker, please feel free to do so. We have a lot of perks there for you and y'all. We had a meeting as chronic overthinkers a couple of weeks ago and it was one, so much fun, and two, we had a really great conversation about what our expectations are for the TV show, y'all. We have experts in our midst, okay, who are aware, who know what's going on in the Hollywood UK spaces and were able to give us incredible insights. Just not necessarily about the show specifically, but about, you know, the process and who's involved, who gets to call the shots. I was taking notes, okay, because I was educated and it was so cool to just have that conversation and chat with people who are just as invested in, you know, thinking about these things as I am, which was a lot of fun. We spent a considerable amount of time the last hour discussing what we think the goal of Hogwarts education actually is. We're meeting this month and we're gonna be talking about the Statute of Secrecy. We're gonna be talking about, you know, the mentality of magical people and the way that that informs how they view themselves, y'all. It's just gonna be such a good time. So if that's something you're interested in, the more the merrier. We've had some new people join us last time, and it was so much fun to have new faces and join us with the OGs and really hope that if that's something that you're interested in, that you will take an opportunity to do that. Patreon.com criticalmagictheory Again, if you're interested in joining, as a financial subscriber, I recommend doing that on your website browser because doing it in the app will bring on extra charges. So I don't recommend doing that. But I do want to take this moment to thank those of you who have joined us as Chronic Overthinkers. So a special thanks to Abby, to Stephanie, to Meg, to Bailey, to Sabrina, to Jay, to Jackie, to Angelica, Emma, Sarah, Lauren, Annie, Rachel, and Dana. Thank you all so much. I hope that you all can join us for our February Virtual Hang. It is such a good time. And, like, I'm. I'm organized now. I'm not. Or I'm not organized now that I'm not, but I'm organized now. And so there's like, an agenda. Not really, but there's a topic that we will be talking about, so it's gonna be a good time. There is a doodle poll that is on the Patreon for Chronic Overthinkers. Please feel free to check that out, fill it out so we can get a date that will be optimized for everyone. What else was I gonna say? Oh, also this episode, I noticed that some of us were writing your responses in whatever language is most comfortable for you. Please feel free to keep doing that. I have Google Translate, y'all. I'm not afraid of seeing a language that I don't necessarily understand. And honestly, this was great practice for me because the people who did it wrote in Spanish, and I used to be, like, really good at Spanish. And then I stopped because I didn't have to take it anymore. And so I was actually very proud of myself because I didn't use Google Translate. I just translated it myself. And I was very proud of myself. So if you would like to contribute to me getting better at Spanish or introducing me to another language, please feel free to do that. I know that some of you may not feel comfortable doing that. That's also okay. But I don't want you to feel like you have to write in English. I can figure out a way to translate it. Google Translate is real. And if it so happens that the translation is not as good, you know, we'll figure that out when we have to. But I don't want you to feel confined to have to say things in English if that is not comfortable for all. Right? If the Patreon and all these other things are too much for you, then please feel free to, like, rate, subscribe, share with people who you think would be interested in this podcast. A little goes a long way. Some of you have been so kind as to write things in Apple Podcasts about the podcast, which we love. Many of you are rating on both Apple Podcasts and Spotify, which is where many of you are listening. Um, you can. If you're listening on Spotify, this is important, and I want you to remember this. You can, like, write your thoughts in Spotify. Like, you can write what you thought about the episode in Spotify. And I read them and sometimes I respond, and I'm gonna be responding more. So feel free to do that as well. Also, feel free to get some merch, y'all. I have really been out here with my tote bag, with my hoodie, with my hat. Really showing off for us, all right? And so all of those things are available in the merch store. If you go to criticalmagictheory.com, you'll see merch up in the upper right hand corner. Click that boom. All right, it's there. It's also in my link tree. If you follow me on social media, please feel free to check it out. The stuff is good. Like, everyone who has gotten it is, like, the quality of this is so much better than I thought. And I said, right, so y'all, don't be afraid. There is something for everyone. There's stickers, there's mugs. My dad told me to tell you all that the mug is really good, and he likes using it because it keeps his coffee hot for long and it's a good size. And if that's not a ringing endorsement, I don't know what is. So listen, if you want something that has critical magic theory on it, it's there for you. If you want something more subtle that doesn't have critical magic theory on it, it's there for you. There are mugs, there's all the things. Check it out. Just let me know. And lastly, like I said before, this is our last Pureblood episode. The next episode is gonna be an overview. It's gonna be kind of like we did for the weasleys like, the superlatives, like, best and worst of, but for all the people that we've talked about, for all the purebloods. And I think that's gonna be so much fun because, y'all, it's just gonna be a revisiting of the chaos that you all have brought over the past year and, like, some change. So I'm excited for that. And then we're diving in to Half Bloods, like, just going straight into it. And I'm not gonna tell you who it is. The Chronic Overthinkers already know, because we. I gave them the full list, basically the year's worth of episodes I gave them in our last meetup. So they already know they're in on it. And they gave me the stamp of approval. So I feel really good about everything that I have planned. I think it fits into what many of you gave me on the Patreon about how you thought things should be structured. I did my best to kind of keep it grouped together, but also, there's a flow, and the person that we're starting with is a really solid, chaotic person, and it flows really well with what we've been up to. So I'm excited, but I'm keeping it a secret until the next episode. If you're a Chronic overthinker, I highly invite you to go check out that last meeting we had. Huh? And just scroll right to the end. It's there for you. When I thought about one of my favorite moments with Lavender Brown, there are a number of them, but the one that I love the most is actually one of the ones where she kind of really rises to our consciousness of her, which is in Prisoner of Azkaban when she finds out that her rabbit, Binky has passed away because he was eaten. And I love this moment because I think one of the things that I really enjoy about Lavender Brown is that she seemingly is very unapologetically herself. Right. Like, I think a lot of us in our comments said things like, she's just a teenage. And so she's, you know, over the top and super girly and all these things. But I think that while J.K. rowling clearly wrote this character to be someone who we as readers would not like, because relative to Hermione, she's just too much. And relative to a lot of the other characters, particularly women and girl characters that we enjoy, she's too much. She, outside the context of this particular kind of conditioning, is very much herself, and she doesn't care. She's a girl who likes gossip She's a girl who feels feelings, who is willing to kind of have a breakdown and cry. She's a girl who loves Divination and is willing to attribute, you know, a lot of things that most of us aren't willing to attribute to Professor Trelawney. And I think that the moment where she is told what happened to Binky and Hermione is basically really pushing her on this. And it's kind of like, girl, divination is fake. This is. You're doing all this stuff and, like, whatever, I feel bad for you. But also, why are you, like, attributing it to this kind of flimsy form of magic? And lavender's just kind of like, I'm feeling this girl. And she doesn't get angry at Hermione. She's just like, I'm sad. And you may not be able to understand that or appreciate that, but, like, that's where I'm at. And I really, really, really, really love that because I think that it kind of sets the stage for who we understand her to become when we meet her again in much more force in Half Blood Prince. And I think that there's something really amazing to be said about how she operates as a person who is just like, this is what I feel. This is who I am, and this is what you're gonna get. And even though, you know, everyone at Hogwarts and all the readers kind of are like, girl, it's too much. Calm down. I love that there's that representation in these books. I love that there's a person who just feels the. Feels and just feels what they are kind of experiencing and is willing to share it. And I think that what happens so often in these books is that it really takes, you know, something crazily traumatic, like somebody, you know, dying, for us to really experience high levels of emotion. We see Harry, Ron and Hermione spend a considerable amount of time kind of repressing how they feel. And the only time that we normally get it when it comes out is in the form of anger. And so I think there's something really healthy and important about having a character who is just like, no, I'm sad because my Bunny died, and I'm trying to make sense of this moment. And the way that I can make sense of it is leaning into what you may call irrational. What you may think is silly, but to me, it's real and it's important, and it's helping me figure things out. And, you know, I think when we experience her in that moment, we're all like, well, Professor Trelawny's a fraud. Hermione is our queen. And McGonagall said, Divination is trash. So, girl, get your life together. But there's something so beautiful, I think, about divination going against the grain and feeling what you feel, no matter what other people are prescribing for you. Because I don't think that Hermione's like, you shouldn't be sad. But she's like, you shouldn't be sad because you think this was like preordained. And Lavender's like, that's how I'm making sense of the world. And I think that there are lots of lessons to learn from that and that, you know, it's easy for us to be super judgmental of a 13 year old girl trying to figure out, you know, what's happened to her. Bunny. Because we know as readers that the source of some of these things is not someone who is particularly, particularly reputable. But I love that she said, I don't care. I'm gonna do what I want to do. And if you don't like it, that's really not really not my business. And I think that there is an important lesson to be Learned there from 13 year old lavender. And I think we do see that translate into 16 year old lavender. And I think that, you know, her feelings for Ron are just an outcrop of this particular mentality of what I feel I'm gonna feel and you're gonna know it. And in a society that really does invite us, particularly women, to have to repress emotions for the sake of, I don't know, you know, being ambitious and upward mobility and being taken seriously and all these things. When men get to just kind of be as crazily emotive as they wanna be, they get to yell and scream and pout and do all these things. And we validate that on so many levels. I love that there is a character in these books, even if we as readers don't necessarily appreciate them. I love that there's a character in these books who really does embody the emotional freedom that I think is really important. And honestly, if the trio had had some of Lavender's emotional freedom and the willingness to do the things that they enjoy and like, I think a lot of the issues that we, the three of them would probably be a lot more minimal. When asked what words best describe lavender, the top three words were clingy, girly and annoying. Now, y'all, y'all, do y'all hear how problematic that is clingy, girly and annoying are the top three words. Now, many of us, and we'll get into this particular dynamic when we talk about whether Lavender is a good girlfriend or Ron. But many of us highlighted the reality that she is a 16 year old girl when we really get to know her, and that all of this kind of fits into that particular dynamic. But I also want us to think about, like, this is her first boyfriend, y'all, she's excited. And I think, again, this is one of those moments. And it reminds me of our first episode when we talked about Molly and how we are looking at her behavior through the lens of our, you know, I'm assuming I. Well, I know for a fact, because I look at the analytics, I know that many of us are millennials and so that we, many of us are pretty far away from 16. And I think that many of us don't want to acknowledge that, like, clinginess and annoyingness was also part of our canon at that age. And I also do think that, you know, and I'm not gonna attribute a negative connotation to the notion of girly, even though the books really do invite us to do that. And I also think that, you know, and again, we'll talk a little bit more in depth about this dynamic when we think about, you know, what it means. But I think that when we think about who Lavender is, she is someone who kind of loves hard. And, you know, that rabbit, Binky, you know, for all intents and purposes, she had that rabbit. And then that rabbit, she left. And he was a bunny. He was a little. He was little when he died. And. But we know that she was still so sad, even though ostensibly she did not spend a lot of time with that rabbit. Like, there was no way that she could have. She was in school. And so the idea that she would be so heartbroken for that rabbit, even though she didn't spend a lot of time with it tells us a story about who she is emotionally. And she's someone who forms meaningful attachments and holds onto them. And as an adult, I think that, you know, it's easy for us to say, like, girl, that is bad behavior. And that will not serve you well in life. And there are parts of it that are true, but there are some really beautiful aspects to the notion of wanting to hold on and maintain relationship with things that are meaningful where, like, her relationship with Pavarti is really, really, really beautiful. And they are always together, joined at the hip. Right? And some could argue that that is an that is a kind of subsidiary, if you will, or a derivation of clinginess. Right. But they are there to support one another. They are there to be there for one another when the other needs it. And I think that, you know, in the, in the desire to cut her some slack, I think it's really important. And I also do think that part of the perception of her clinginess is the fact that Ron is so devoid of emotional attachment to most people in his life that when we. And so is Harry. Right. Like Harry's trauma jumps out when it comes to human connection. And I think that when he looks at what Lavender is doing and the way that she's reacting to Ron, he's off put by that because he's like, I don't know what to do with that. Right. Like he wants emotion and he wants, you know, all those things on his terms. It's why he likes Ginny. Right. Like we talked about that in Ginny's episode, right. That the perception of, you know, emotion and emotional availability, emotional vulnerability feels icky to Harry and it feels icky to Ron because both of them are emotionally repressed. And then we get from Hermione this perception of the negativity of these things because she herself is also relatively emotionally repressed when it comes to her relationship with these boys or with other boys. Right. Like, if it's not about some social justice issue, we don't really get a lot out of Hermione. And so I think that a lot of what we experience from Lavender, particularly as it pertains to the clinginess and the annoyingness, right. Is the byproduct of three characters through whom we view her who are emotionally repressed, who are having to navigate emotions in ways that are not necessarily healthy. And we'll get to all of that. Right. Like we didn't really talk about that that much when we talked about Ron, but like we know full well that he is not all the way there. And I think that we are much more willing to accept that kind of behavior from 16 year old boys than we are from 16 year old girls. And I think that we wanted. I think the way that we understand J.K. rowling and how she understands femininity and how she understands the way that girls behave and how she understands the kind of like, I'm not other girls mentality is to not be emotional. Right. Like Harry literally says that about Ginny. And I think that there is something to be said about a character who is willing to give you, you know, indications about how they feel. And I love that Lavender does that. And I think that our perceptions of her as clingy and girly and annoying are all tempered by the way that she's presented to us through the lens of Ron and Hermione and also through the lens of J.K. rowling's misogyny. And I feel like that is important for us to think about as we, as we go through this episode because I think that these words really do kind of encapsulate a lot of the way that we understand who she is. And the thing that I want us to think about as we go through this episode is the ease with which we fall into the trap of conceptualizing her this way for today's arithmancy lesson. We had 620 responses. The first question was, is Lavender Brown a good person? About 68% of us said yes, about 7% of us said no, and 26% of us said don't know. Someone wrote, she has no personality beyond being a mess. Someone else wrote, although I wanted to say she isn't a good person because I don't think she's a good friend or girlfriend, I actually do think she's a good person and a hero for fighting and ultimately dying in the battle of Hogwarts. Another person wrote, when I look at Lavender apart from her relationship with Ron, because it would be unfair to view her exclusively through that lens, I see a very sensitive, dedicated, sometimes naive and brave person who seems to experience all aspects of life in great intensity, not just her feelings for Ron. And I don't think that's a bad thing. And one more person wrote, I don't think Lavender is a good person and I think if we got to know her better we could see past her superficial nature in the books. That being said, she does come up come across a bit one dimensionally and shallow. Again, I think we are confronted with the necessity to kind of navigate Lavender as a character who is despised by the author and thus despised by us. But to that end, there's nothing in these books that makes us think that she's a bad person. Is she misguided sometimes in the directionality of her disdain? Yes. Is she silly sometimes in making decisions and choices that might not be something that we would agree with right now at our current time in our lives also? Yes, but she's not a bad person. She makes good decisions and, you know, as good of a decision as one can make when you are 16 years old in part of a privileged population and just living your life as best you can. While also trying to navigate the return of the darkest wizard of the age while you're in school with the person that he is trying to kill who is also in your house. Right. Like, we never really talk about the fact that, you know, all of this stuff is happening and all these people are just around Harry while it's going on and what that must mean for them. And I think that, you know, particularly in this moment that we, particularly those of us in the United States are living in, where finding joy is really hard to do. And so leaning into the kind of silly and absurd feels like the only solace that we can find because everything else feels like it is literally falling apart around us. I can understand, particularly at the age that they are at, when we really get to know Lavender, why she behaves the way that she does. It makes complete and utter sense to me, even outside of her just being 16 years old. It's like, I've got to find joy somewhere. And I, as particularly as a person like Lavender who does wear her heart on her sleeve and who is, like, just an emotional person, it makes a lot of sense to me as to why she would be so intent on trying to be with someone just because, like, it can be very lonely. And also hormones. Maybe those are. Maybe many of us forgot about them hormones, but they're a beast. And when you are dealing with trauma after trauma after trauma and you're dealing with puberty, heaven help you, because only heaven can. Okay. And so I think that, like, one of the comments pointed to the fact that, you know, when we think about her outside of her relationship with Ron, we see someone who's very sensitive, but maybe with a touch of naivete. And I think that, you know, that sensitivity is something that is not rewarded in these books. And I think that part of that is because the Golden Trio doesn't have the opportunity or privilege of being that sensitive because they got stuff to do. They gotta bring Voldemort down. And there are expectations placed on them by the adults around them that are not on lavender. And so that when we look at characters in the periphery, we're like, if you aren't acting like the Golden Trio, you're doing it wrong. When in reality, maybe the Golden Trio is just doing it unhealthily. And lavender and what we see from her makes a lot more sense outside the context of Voldemort's return. And so, like, when we think about what this means for her as a person, I don't think she's a bad. I don't think there's any indication that she's a bad person. I don't think there's any indication that she's anything but a good person. Like someone else pointed out, I mean, she literally does join the da. So, like, when the time comes for her to make a decision, right, She's a pure blood person who could have just been like, I'm not getting involved in this. Not while I'm at school. Not if it means that, you know, other people in my family or could be targeted. She doesn't care about that. She joins the da, she stays behind and she fights. We're going to get into that a little bit more later on. But, like, those are clear indications that she is a good person. The idea that we would say that she is bad because she was jealous of Hermione and acted on that jealousy, y'all. The inverse is also true, is it not? And so would we then characterize Hermione as a bad person? I'm gonna leave us with that question because chaos and also reflection. Someone wrote, and I'm translating this from Spanish, so bear with me. She's a good friend of Parvardi in the books. We also see in other situations where she is amicable to other people. There are times where she is a bit testy with Hermione, but that reaction and attitude is kind of a match for what Hermione also offers us, y'all. I'm proud of that. All right. Someone else wrote, I feel like Lavender is a great friend to Parvarti, but I wouldn't consider her a friend to Hermione. She must have sensed the lingering feeling between Ron and Hermione and that's why she was so clingy, marking her territory too heavily in that in the end when she smothered Wanwan. I can also sympathize to being an insecure 16 year old, but I just find her so unlikable. Okay. Someone else wrote I said yes, that Lavender was a good friend because she is loyal to her friends, particularly Parvardi. We don't know much about why she and Hermione don't get along other than that they are polar opposites. And all this stuff with Ron. We do know that Hermione didn't think much of Lavender because of how girly Lavender was. Just because she clashed with one of the main protagonists of the story doesn't mean that she wasn't a good friend to those who in turn were good friends to her. And one more person wrote, is Lavender a good friend? Yes. She and Parvati are attached at the hip and she strikes me as a kind and loyal person. She even sticks by Trelawney post firing. I just find it so fascinating. And I think, again, this is the byproduct of the way that we are kind of made to think about this character through the lens of Hermione and Ron and Harry. But I think, you know, we wouldn't say that Hermione is a bad friend because she wasn't nice to Lavender. So the idea that we would hold Lavender to be to the, to the, to the standard that she should have been a good friend to Hermione, but it's also like, Hermione wasn't a good friend to her. So if we're matching energy, then, like, we will remember that it is in fact Hermione who comes up to her when they are 13 years old and is like, I know you're rabid, Die, but you're being irrational. I wouldn't want to be friends with that girl either. I'm so sorry to say it, and I'm a logical person, but, like, when I'm in the midst of a moment and I'm having a situation going on, I don't want to hear logic. I'm going through something. And I think that there's something to be said about the fact that you don't need to be friends with everybody who sleeps in your room with you. Like, you know, Cassie brought this up, but there are two other Gryffindor girls, ostensibly who we know nothing about. And we also know that Hermione doesn't necessarily have the best relationship with girls in general. She and Ginny go at it. Even she's not nice to Fleur Delacour. Like, there are lots of ways that we understand that to view Lavender as a friend through the lens of Hermione, we have to acknowledge the fact that Hermione is not friends with girls. And that is important when we think about what this then means for our perceptions of whether or not Lavender is a good friend. I think that when we look at her relationship with Prvardi, if she was a trash friend, I don't think Parvarti would be friends with her because Pravardi has a sister in another house. If she really wanted to spend time with someone else, she could easily do that. Even though Padma is in Ravenclaw, it's not an impossibility. They're twins. That was like her first friend. And when we look at Fred and George, we can recognize the likelihood that that would be a much easier and inherent thing that one would want to do. And yet she doesn't do that. She's always with Lavender, which tells us a story about, you know, what this much, what this must mean, because she has other options and that feels like an important reality for us to kind of highlight here. And I also do like the idea of, you know, invoking Trelawny and the loyalty that she shows to her, because I do think that that is a very val. I mean, the extent to which I think you can be friends with your teachers and whether or not you should be is a completely different conversation. But I do think it's important to note that she is someone who, even when everyone else around them is like, nah, like, this lady is a fraud. She's a fake. Lavender and Pavarti are there and there to, like, be with her and to stand by her when Umbridge fires her. And they're there with her. I mean, they are supportive of her and. And maybe it's because, you know, they do well in her class. But even still, if you are pariah, why would I stick by you? Especially if I wasn't a good person or if I wasn't a good friend or if I didn't feel like our relationship was important to me? And so I think that, like, there are indications that Lavender is a good friend. And what I really, really love about this discourse is that more than I think any other character thus far, Lavender is such a strong indication of how easily, you know, the well can be poisoned against characters when the main three people that we experience are, you know, dealing with some other things and the author herself is writing this character really to just be someone who we don't like from the get go. And, you know, a lot of you spend a considerable amount of time in other episodes highlighting the fact that so much of these characters is through the lens of Harry. And I think that there's something really fascinating about, you know, the fact that that is true, and particularly in Half Blood Prince, what that looks like when it's his best friend who is kind of being taken away from him and what that looks like. But on the whole, there's nothing, I think, that would suggest to me that Lavender isn't a good friend. I think there's a lot of things that would suggest that she is one. And I think the fact that she's there to fight for Hogwarts in the Battle of Hogwarts is another indication of this reality. Is Lavender Brown a good Gryffindor? 64% of us said yes, 12% of us said no. 24% of us said don't. No. Someone wrote, she goes on to join the DA and in the final book she stays at Hogwarts for the battle. More than proving herself to be a good Gryffindor, another person writes, she still does the brave thing and fights. So that's why I say that she's a good Gryffindor. And one more person wrote, yes, she joins the DA and fights in the final battle and is seriously wounded, if not outright killed by greyback. Here be lions. I think that, you know, these are indications and we talk a lot about what it means to be a good Gryffindor and a lot of the self sacrifice and the impulsiveness and all of these things. And I think we do see that kind of embodied in her willingness to stand up for the things that she believes in by joining the DA by fighting against the system, by risking it. Right. Like, I mean that was a really big risk and she still does it. And then she stays and people. There's a lot of conjecture about whether or not she actually dies. In the books we know that she's attacked by greyback, but it's not clear whether or not she dies or not. But either way an attack like that is intense and that was a risk that she was willing to take for her school and she was there fighting alongside all the other Gryffindors. I want to share some of what Cassie shared with me in our conversation about why she believed that lavender was a good Gryffindor. And it has nothing to do with the D.A. she mentions it, but there are other acts of bravery that lavender gets into. Let's take a listen. Do you think that Lavender brown is a good Gryffindor?