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Professor Julian Womble (10:07)

Okay, so as promised, the most kind of discussed thing that we had in this post episode chat was was this question of recklessness versus Bravery. The community was pretty split on whether recklessness is inherently Gryffindor or just a byproduct of Hogwarts being a reckless institution. Which is like completely fair. Some saw Gryffindor's headlong rushing in as a defining feature, while others pointed out that every house has its reckless streaks. It's just that we spend the most time with Gryffindor so we notice there's more. This raises the Is bravery without thought always going to look like recklessness? And I think that that's a really interesting thing for us to think about. Kayla wrote this episode I had a hard time with. I think it's because I am a Gryffindor and I'm the least reckless person ever. I overthink things way too much and constantly consider how my actions affect others. I am even in therapy for that. In the books I always saw the recklessness as children who weren't told all the information from the adults, especially the Golden Trio. I also saw a lot of recklessness from other houses in Hogwarts, so I never thought it was a Gryffindor thing, just a magical community thing. That's interesting to think about. Right? I'm actually interested in what other houses we saw being reckless. We can talk about that in a post episode chat. We'll talk about that because yeah, I mean we spend our most time with our Gryffindors, so I think that in some ways that does paint the picture for us. Mary Kate wrote, I don't agree that recklessness is an inherent trait of Gryffindors, and I'm going to push back on the idea. Ultimately, I think teenagers are reckless and Hogwarts is a reckless institution. We see recklessness in nearly all of the houses, so to equate it with bravery or courage seems inaccurate to me. Now I'm not saying that the trait doesn't present itself in Gryffindors but because it does in a huge way. But I think we can easily argue that we see recklessness present itself in different ways for each house. With that being said, I totally agree Gryffindor is not misunderstood as a whole. However, I do think that because we get so much information about Gryffindors, we struggle to attach nuance to them. And Sarah Marie wrote in the survey, I said reckless as my adjective because I cannot handle how they rush in head first with wild plans. I totally agree that the ends make them think it's all okay. And JK definitely excises a lot of bad behavior on the part of Gryffindors. Okay, there's a lot here to unpack. I want to begin with the conversation surrounding age, because I think this is a really, really interesting one. And I also think that this informs a lot of the way that we assess this because of our age. Now, I am not going transfer my own generational perspective onto you. However, I think that I look at the stats, I know the demographics, I know where many of us sit. Okay? The majority of us. I know there are a couple of youngins out there. I don't want to hear from you, okay? There's one in particular who is so sweet in the shade that they throw and I'm not here for it and I don't need it. This person, you know who you are and if you don't, well, good, I'm glad. But I think there's truth to this idea of recklessness just being part of not only the youth, but particularly the youth here at Hogwarts. And part of the reason why I think that's the case, right, is a thing that we talk about a lot, which is this notion of magic being the solution for everything. And so for many magical people, they get to be reckless because magic will fix it. So there's no concern about the consequences of your actions because worst case scenario, you're wiping a memory. Worst case scenario, you're drinking some skelegro. Worst case scenario, you wave your wand and fix the problem. And so for many of these individuals, there is a way in which recklessness is simply a byproduct of being a magical person. And then when you add in age and, and you add in the sheer lack of security and constraint that exists in Hogwarts as an institution, it stands to reason that you're going to run into a lot of young people who just do ridiculous things for the sake of doing ridiculous things, because they can and magic will fix it. If anything happens. So that when we look at characters like Fred and George who get up to all kinds of hijinks who are literally testing their products on their fellow classmates and just kind of being like, whoopsie, you know, if anything happens and testing it on themselves as well. Reckless behavior. And so I can completely agree with the. With a lot of the statements with, you know, Mary Kate's assertion that, you know, these are just teenagers being reckless at a reckless institution. And I think that there's something to be said about what Caleb brings to bear as well. As well as Sarah Marie. I also do think, though, and so I'm going to push back on the pushback. I also do think, though, that there is a way that Gryffindor rewards that recklessness in such a way that it becomes the hallmark of the house. Now, I think what's interesting about this and what your comments have brought to me is the recklessness that Gryffindors bring to bear is seemingly no different than what other people are doing. However, they, I would contend, are being rewarded for it. They're getting more points for it relative to other houses. And so I think that this engenders a conflation between recklessness and bravery because in so many of the instances that exist in these books, like, they could have called an adult, and they didn't. And by they, I mean the Golden Trio. Like, when they go to McGonagall about the stone and they're looking for Dumbledore and she's like, he's not here. And they're like, we know about the Stone. And she's like, you all need to chill. Harry is like, I'm going down. Because if you think that I'm going to sit here and wait for Voldemort to come back, I'm not having it. And he goes on this whole, like, whole tirade thing and Ron and Hermione, like, us two, we're going, huh? I think that there's a way that, like. And then. So that happens, right? And we could make an argument that, you know, that could have happened to anyone who had the curiosity and the wherewithal to, like, investigate the way that the Golden Trio did when it came to the Sorcerer Philosopher's Stone. Fine. But at the end of this book, they get so many points for it. They get so much adulation for Stands to Reason then that we become addicted to those things when they are given to us. And oftentimes what we end up seeing is it's another Gryffindor who is bestowing this on them also first book they go after a troll when they should have been going back to the common room but they had to go save Hermione and then they decided to take this thing on. Okay, and I'm pretty sure where is it? I don't have my book on me. Someone will look it up for me. But McGonagall doesn't call it recklessness. I think she calls it misjudgment or something. But then she gives them points for it and then she says it's not every day that a couple of first years can take on a full grown troll and live to tell the tale. Now that is rewarding ridiculous behavior to the point where even Ron and Harry are like wait, what? That is literally like a month in a month in almost two months in to Hogwarts they get that they get away with things, right? Like they escape. And again some of this is not their fault because like they are children and there are adults. But all I'm saying is that I think that the association between recklessness and bravery is rewarded in tangible ways for Gryffindors in ways that we don't see it for other houses. And like I can hear you all now saying well we spend so much time with Gryffindor we actually don't know. Sure, that's true. But based on what we do know, like we can't go on the conjecture of other houses, we simply have no sense of that. But what we do know is that Gryffindors are absolutely rewarded for reckless behavior. Because y'. All. You mean to tell me that Luna, Neville, Ginny, Hermione, Ron and Harry got on the back of Thestrals, flew out of Hogwarts, went to the Ministry of Magic, nearly died. I sound like Molly Weasley. You could have died. And there was nothing that happened to them. Nothing. Reckless behavior. Ron, Harry can't get past the barrier. You could have waited for your parents, but you didn't. Instead you got in the car and flew to Hogwarts and then exposed the magical world mines had to be modified, the whole nine. And McGonagall is the one who makes the decision. And she says you just have detention. Hello, Hagrid. Another Gryffindor. If you have any questions, go follow the spiders. So you can see like the invitation for recklessness is seemingly most pronounced amongst Gryffindors. And again, I know all we do is spend our time with Gryffindor, so it's hard to say. And again, maybe we won't make a blanket statement about the relationship between recklessness and bravery as it pertains to Gryffindors or make a connection between Gryffindors and recklessness. But I would be remiss to not acknowledge all of the instances I've given you many instances across two books only and I could keep going and there is a way. And again I really do love this notion of some of this is Hogwarts as an institution promoting this because everything at Hogwarts is reckless. Some of this is a systemic structural issue because magic really does give people a false sense of security and a false sense of understanding about what it means to be a magical person. And it also blurs the danger that these things can pose. I do not want to take any of that away and that is true for any magical person. That is true for any Hogwarts student. I though what we do not get to see I won't say that it doesn't happen but what we do not get to see is heads of houses actively engaging in rewarding reckless behavior and not punishing that behavior. Right. Like a detention with Lockhart for literally violating the statute of secrecy for from the head of your house tells a story about what is acceptable and what is not. And yes I'm not going to blame Harry and Ron for this because they are children. It is McGonagall's fault. But McGonagall is a what Gryffindor? McGonagall puts Harry on the Quidditch team for going and seeking to defend Neville. And I know that like this is one of my favorite things in the movies when Hermione goes what an idiot. I love that scene. But it's a reckless decision. Harry's never flown on a broom before that is reckless. And then goes and flies. And it just so happens that he's good at it. Thank goodness. And again like that's the folly of youth. He is what though rewarded for it. And he was not supposed to be. You were supposed to get kicked out of Hogwarts. Madam Hooch distinctly said stay on the ground like and so then the one moment in Sorcerer Philosopher's Stone where we do see them have to pay the price is when they are actually helping Hagrid because he did what got a dragon reckless and was trying to take care of it in a wooden house. And so then these three children had to make up this whole scheme to get the dragon out. I could go on about this because I don't think that I disagree with the points that were being made and I don't think that all of these things are mutually exclusive, but also simultaneously, concurrently. And what is clear to me is that there is a way in which Gryffindors are rewarded for this kind of stuff, that other houses, we don't get to see them be rewarded. And I think it engenders the idea that that kind of behavior is brave and that you get rewarded for it because there are so many. In every single one of the instances that we see they could have gotten an adult and they didn't. And I think that one I think that Hogwarts to the points made fosters this sense of independence. I don't think that Harry has a very good trust of adults, but we'll talk about that later in his episodes. But there are always points given. There are commendations given to he and Ron after Chamber of Secrets. The idea of some of the behavior being rewarded the way that it is, I think creates this connection. And that's all I have to say about that. I'm sure that people will push back on the pushback of the pushback in the post episode chat hashtag bars.

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Professor Julian Womble (28:03)

The next conversation that we had in the post episode chat was one that kind of juxtaposed Neville Longbottom's journey and his kind of Gryffindor ness with Harry's. And so many of you champion Neville as the truest Gryffindor, someone whose bravery was thoughtful, considered and rooted in loyalty. Others argued Harry's walk into the forest to die was the ultimate expression of Gryffindor courage. Reckless but principled. What emerges here is a fascinating contrast. Gryffindor bravery isn't a monolith and it can be quiet and deliberate or headlong into danger, April wrote. I really like this point about a thirst to prove yourself and how it relates to Harry and Hermione in particular. Curious though, would you put Neville in this category as well? I'm thinking about his relationship with his grandma, trying to prove her to her that he was worthy, that he had to play a role into who he ultimately became, Nadia wrote. This is why I justified Neville as my admirable Gryffindor. Because he is the most considered, because he is more considered than most. Whilst he did accompany Harry to the Ministry of Magic. He stopped Harry from fighting unassisted. When Harry told him to take Hermione and run, he at least tried to make him slow down and think. And knowing Bellatrix was there, he was fighting a different fight than the rest of the group. He wanted to stand his ground against her, defiant, against the woman who took his family from him. He is more considered and a little less reckless than the group as a whole. He understands his privilege more than most and uses it to defend his friends. He takes risks, but considered risks. And he spent years watching and working out how best to use his bravery. Fenty wrote, absolutely. Neville is the best Gryffindor and the character I had in mind when filling out the survey. This tempered my response and MacKenzie wrote one thought mid episode. The one time Harry really goes into something completely alone or attempts to is when he goes into the forest to die. Ultimately, he ends up having his parents, Lupin and Sirius, there for support in a way, but he made that first effort alone. This is why I chose him as the perfect Gryffindor. He's reckless, impulsive, sure, but he's so brave, my boy. Tabitha wrote this 1000%. I said Harry. Also, this is really interesting because of course, these two have such a faded history with one another before they even knew one another, right? Obviously, you know, Neville could have been the chosen One and it ended up being Harry. And I think that when we think about what makes them both who they are and, you know, the notion of having something to prove, I think that what makes Neville different from Harry is that he doesn't necessarily believe at the onset that he can prove himself. And I think that Harry operates from a different place because in theory, he technically already has. So even though they both have something to prove, there's something that Harry doesn't have to prove because he's Harry Potter. Like, the scar on his forehead is proof enough of many a thing for Harry in a way that Neville doesn't have. Right? And so I think that part of the delay in Neville's development in terms of his ability to kind of manifest the bravery that his grandmother was looking for. Because again, Neville's another example of someone whose bravery had to look like recklessness in order for his grandmother to say, you're finally living up to your father's reputation. Right? And I think, not to go back to the last conversation, but I think that there is a way that that is a common theme that. And so maybe the association between Gryffindor and recklessness isn't inherent, but it definitely is like, has been imbued. And I think that Neville's journey to get to that place, to embody that particular expectation is one that took longer because he was starting way behind the mark from Harry. And I think Harry also had the benefit of having two friends who supported him in this. I think we can never underestimate, you know, what it is to have Ron and Hermione by his side. And Neville for a lot of the first couple of books until really Order the Phoenix is kind of doing this by himself when he has friends to a certain degree, but he doesn't have like ride or dies. Right? Like he doesn't have those people. And so a lot of his journey to kind of self discovery is trying to figure out where he belongs and who he is and when the rewards are coming to people for doing these outlandishly kind of brave things. And you are just happy to be magical because you thought that you might be a squib and your family thought that you might be a squib. We're not coming from different. We're not coming from the same place. And so I think that's what makes Neville's arc so compelling, is that he finds his way there. And again, like Harry, he doesn't do it by himself. And I think that there's something really beautiful about how he gets there. I think for Harry, you know, his understanding of bravery is one that is also very specific in that like Neville, he and Neville both have parents who they are constantly compared to. But Harry's father's bravery is something that we don't actually spend a lot of time hearing about. We hear a lot about his mother's sacrifice, but we don't necessarily hear about all that James was doing. And it isn't until Harry starts to deal with the dementors and then later on that he really gets a sense of his father's like, acts of valor. All he really learns about James truly is his sports acumen and the fact that he was a mess and a bully. And so whereas Neville has a full understanding and a full history of who his parents, both parents, not even just his dad, but both of his parents are and what they did and he. And they are still alive and so a constant reminder of what their bravery cost them. And I honestly, I'd never thought about this before, but like, you can imagine how scary that is. Like, would you? I mean, the expectation that you would be brave like your parents when that bravery cost them their lives, I mean, they're still alive and it cost them their Sanity, but, like, it cost them their ability to live their lives as they were. And what that is to then kind of have to try and embody that, like, that has to be terrifying to live in that way. And what's. What's so fascinating about it, right, is that, like, the juxtapos, like, Harry's entire understanding of his parents is all in the mythos surrounding them. He doesn't really have too many people who can speak to what happened the night that they died. He doesn't have too many people who can speak to kind of whatever acts of valor they participated in before. Like, no one's really telling him those stories, but Neville is getting those stories. And so they're under how they are arriving at bravery. And Gryffindor ness is drastically different. And I think that it is a much steeper climb, I would say, for Neville than it is for Harry. And yes, of course, Harry has to live up to the hype, but he almost also doesn't have to live up to the hype. Like, I mean, there's so much hype, and everyone literally just kind of looks at the things that he does and is just like, that kid's really doing it. And part of that is because of the lore surrounding him. So Neville doesn't even have that. And I think that when it comes to kind of who best embodies Gryffindor ness, I do love the spectrum that they both present to us. And I do love the fact that we get a very different kind of perspective because Harry kind of walks in and just seemingly has this like, I'm gonna go full tilt, dive in head first, figure it out later, hope for the best, and expect whatever mentality, which is also very odd from someone who grew up the way that he did, not in the magical world. He really does adopt the idea of magic will fix it very quickly in a way that Neville doesn't even seemingly have that same perspective on. You know, what it is to kind of be that. I mean, Harry is reckless. He is reckless. And I think maybe it's. Maybe his own perspective is like, yeah, I may not have grown up in the magical world, but I defeated the darkest wizard of all time as a baby. Like, if my magic doesn't fix all the problems, then whose is? And so there's a kind of internalized understanding of magic. And also Harry is told very early on, like, you've got this protection. And I'm wondering if that kind of galvanizes him a little bit in a way that it doesn't for Neville because Neville's relationship with bravery and magic landed his parents in St. Mungo's for the rest of their lives. And so that, you know, I think this is the thing about being children, but particularly children of heroes, is that everybody's journey and understanding of heroism and bravery is going to be filtered through your experiences and that of your parents. And both Harry and Neville have such drastically different experiences in that regard.

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Professor Julian Womble (40:56)

So the next theme really focuses on adults, the sharing of information, and the adultification of children to the point where they become child soldiers. A lot of Heat came from the chat around the idea of Gryffindors in particular as child soldiers. Some of you argue that the kids were reckless because adults withheld information from them and praise their dangerous choices and set them up to fail. Others push back on this idea, saying that adults like Dumbledore. We're not talking about Dumbledore in depth. Okay? He's going to have his own set of episodes with the S. Okay. Others pushed back, saying adults like Dumbledore had to treat Harry strategically given Voldemort's hold on him. The debate forces us to ask like a really important question, which is like, did Gryffindor bravery become warped by adults by the adults who exploited it? Now this, this, this we have to have a conversation about because in some ways this is kind of what I was talking about in the first theme, but now it's here in our third theme. K wrote, thank you for giving voice to the absurdity of Gryffindor's expectations of child soldiers. I remember internalizing so much shame as a first grader who was reading the books for the first time and wasn't willing to die for, well, anything. Honestly, I believe I've carried it ever since. Thank you for telling my inner child that it's okay I didn't want to die to save the world and for telling my adult self that bravery doesn't need to be reckless. Cassie wrote, however, the second Harry was allowed to go through the trapdoor after Voldy and not then be ripped a new one for being so stupid entitled him to whatever information he desired. If they didn't want him to have the info, they should have kept him out of the action. But by praising his recklessness and encouraging him to continue taking action as a child with no adult help or supervision, the adults then put everyone in danger by not sharing every single piece of information they had. Hiding information at that point is reckless, dangerous and verges unvillainous. Mia pushes back saying, you simply can't tell Harry everything. The teen who has a chunk of Voldemort living in his skull, potentially seeing through his eyes and listening through his ears. His body apt to be seized by Voldemort at any time. In possession, Harry is a leaky sieve sieve who must be strategized around. That's the truth. Harry is also a combatant in a war which is not his fault, nor is it Dumbledore's fault, but it too must be considered. If Dumbledore is our general on the field, then his job is to use his assets responsibly and judiciously, averting losses whenever possible, and delegating tasks as he sees fit. Jenny writes, the reflection hit me on this episode, especially the last 4ish minutes, if you haven't listened to it. That reflection, I felt really good about it. Jeannie writes, I know I am so brave for things I've done and I'm still doing, but I'm the furthest thing from reckless. So not knowing what house I truly belong in breaks my millennial heart. I do wholeheartedly believe the school as a whole is reckless, as someone mentioned, but the Lions take it to another level. So here's the thing. I recorded this whole other thing and now I'm gonna re record over it because I've got a new idea and a new thought and it's better. I think the reality is that at Hogwarts, the adults, like anywhere, right? The adults set the stage for what is understood as acceptable and what is unacceptable. And from a very early age, the Gryffindors learn and are taught by adults that basically risking your life is totally fine as long as it's in service of something good. And that something good could literally be like in service of making sure we win a Quidditch match, right? There is a way that I think even more so than the students, the adults who are much better at magic, literally lean into this idea that we can fix all of our problems. There is a moment in Sorcerer's Philosopher's Stone where Harry is talking to Dumbledore after he comes back from the like, whatever underground place after defeating Quirrel, and he says, I feared I might be too late. No, no, no. Yeah. No, no. Dumbledore says, I feared I might be too late. Harry says, you nearly were. I couldn't have kept him off the stone much longer. Dumbledore goes, not the Stone, boy, you. The effort nearly killed you. For one terrible moment there, I was afraid it had. So let's be clear. Dumbledore recognizes in Harry in this immediate moment, this outlandish self sacrificing behavior. And what does he do? He doesn't chastise him. He doesn't say like, you cannot be that reckless anymore. You have to be careful. He literally is like 60 points to Gryffindor for acts of bravery. After this kid basically was like, yeah, I. I'm not even thinking about my own self at 11 years old. You are fostering the idea that this behavior is okay. And so that when we think about the association with recklessness and bravery, the adults absolutely play A part in this. And it does engender the idea of like we have to be the ones to do this. Like the idea, like he doesn't. At no point does he chastise Harry for or Ron or Hermione for going down without an adult or at all. Not even without an adult. Without an adult. That's ridiculous at all. Right? He's just like, wow, it's really crazy that you figured that whole thing out. Hello? Hello. Are we, is this, are we in the same time zone? Like that's, that's wild, wild, wild behavior. But Dumbledore operates from the space of. And this is what we talked about in the last episode of it all serves a purpose. And so at the end of the day, it might not be ideal, but it is necessary. And the cost might be high, but the ends always justify the means. And everything for Dumbledore was a fact finding mission earlier on, right? Trying to figure out exactly what Voldemort's play was. Trying to figure out what Harry was capable of, what Harry was willing to do. And so then, and then we see throughout the process, Harry begins to. I don't know if it's not trust Dumbledore, but he doesn't tell him about the Basilisk, he doesn't tell him about the visions that he's having with Voldemort until it becomes way too late in order of the Phoenix. And so that there is a way that this relationship engenders a level of independence that no child should have. And part of it is that it's because, like he abandons Harry at Privet Drive every summer. And I think that what we also experience is that there is this kind of tug of war adultification of these kids, right? In some moments they're allowed to break the rules and there's no problem. In other moments they break the rules and there are massive consequences. And so there is very little kind of socialization surrounding the consequences of magic and the consequences of one's decisions and one's choices. And I think that that plays a really big part in the way that Harry, Ron and Hermione approach this. I think it changes the way that Gryffindor's approach things because I think that implicit in Gryffindor ness and this, and I won't even say that it's recklessness, I think that this idea engenders recklessness, which is for the greater good. I think implicit in so much of what is done is it's always for the greater good. If it's being done to thwart Voldemort, it's worth it no matter what. If it's an 11 year old willing to risk his life and die, it's worth it. If it is 15 year olds going and fighting full grown wizards in order to protect a prophecy, it's worth it. I think that there is a way that the greater good permeates through Gryffindor mentality in a way that is simply not true for other houses. Certainly not for Slytherins. I don't think so for Ravenclaws either. And maybe for Hufflepuffs, but not to the same extent. I think that we talk a lot about, and we talked a lot about in the last episode, Gryffindor's willingness to pay the cost. And I think that again, the ends always justify the means and that there is a way that Gryffindor nasty just invites some of the recklessness because sometimes that's the way you think things have to get done. And when you don't have adults who are willing to kind of support you while simultaneously protect you, then you're left to your own devices. And so I do think that the relationship between recklessness, bravery and Gryffindor is absolutely being like bolstered up by the adults. But I am not going to absolve these kids because some of these decisions are being made with full knowledge that like, oh, we should probably tell an adult, but we won't. I don't want to bother Dumbledore. I mean, I guess that is in some ways Dumbledore's fault. I mean, like a lot of this is a failure on the part of the adults in the school not availing themselves in ways that make children feel like they can rely on them. I will not, I will not take that away. I also though simultaneously, concurrently and feel like there are moments where some of these children make a decision and they're not good ones. And we're going to talk a little bit about one of those decisions because one of the things that came up a lot because I talked about how Harry, I used the word led the, you know, Ron, Ginny, Neville and Hermione into the Ministry of Magic. And many of you pushed back on that idea and said they decided to go with him. And I don't disagree with that. They did decide, however, simultaneously, concurrently. And he. It was his recklessness that invited theirs in the same way that it is the recklessness and the abandonment of the adults that invites the recklessness from the students in the first place. And I don't think those things are Mutually exclusive. And I. And what's more is like, Harry recognizes it because. And the reason why I'm willing to call it reckless is because Hermione's literally like, dude, you don't know the full scope of things. And Harry's like, and honestly, hey, sis, I don't care. I saw the vision. I'm gonna go. And I get it. But again, this reifies the kind of thing that I'm submitting to you, which is like. That is like the ends will justify the means. We just have to get there. If you come with me, that's your business. I'm not going to tell you that you need to come. And in fact, I'll tell you, don't come. And I think Harry tells them, like, you don't need to come with me. I'm going to go. But no matter what we do, I'm going. And Neville's like, we're going with you because you're not going by yourself. And this is a means by which that we are able to like, really use what we've been learning in the da. And I think that, you know, Kelly Yu points this out and saying those kids had been training during DA sessions and were feeling confident that they were capable. They were, of course, wrong. But I take issue with the idea that Harry asked any of his friends to accompany him. As mentioned in the episode, his recklessness is shared amongst his fellow Gryffindors. Agreed? 1,000%. 1,000%. There is a way in which they feel like they have to be the ones to fix the problem. And it was taken in. And they took. I mean, the DA in and of itself. Right? One was reckless because I'm Dumbledore, because Umbridge is crazy, but necessary. And that's the thing about recklessness is that sometimes you have to be. And I think that sometimes we think about recklessness and we see it as a negative. And there are times where it absolutely is. But I think that there are also moments where it is a necessity where you have to kind of break out against the mold. Especially when you are operating in a space like Hogwarts where the adults are just kind of letting you do whatever you want. And I think when I think about the da, when I think about them going to the Ministry of Magic, I also realize that there is a way in which, in addition to kind of recklessness, there is this feeling of obligation that so many Gryffindors have, right? Like that if you see something, you have to say something. If there is a problem that you have to then go and fix it. And I think part of the recklessness also comes from the fact that they don't have the tools really to be able to do this in a way that doesn't put their lives at risk. In addition to being rewarded time and time and time and time and time again for putting your life at risk, I don't think that they know another way to operate, but they also feel compelled to fix the issues and they feel compelled to do it themselves because the adults around them have allowed them to feel this way and have kind of promoted the idea that this is how you do it. And so in that way, I think, yes, the adults play a really big part in this. But I also do think that the recklessness does come as and is associated with Gryffindor ness. Maybe not inherently, but it is definitely invited and cultivated by the adults around them and and then warped into this sense of obligation that then lends itself and leads itself to reckless decision making on the part of the children that we see and then is rewarded. Right? And so this cycle continues.

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Professor Julian Womble (58:04)

As we wrap up our discussion of the Hogwarts Houses, I want to do a reflection that returns to a question that came up time and time again, both in this character's episode, but also in the post episode chat for the Gryffindor episode, which is how on earth did Peter Pettigrew end up in Gryffindor? Now I know this might feel like a weird question for us to think about as we're wrapping up our discussion of the houses, but just trust me on this. Come on this journey with me. Because this isn't just about Pettigrew. It's about what the Sorting Hat is actually doing and what it means to sort children at 11 years old into houses that supposedly define their character for life. In the chat, Nadia voiced what a lot of people feel writing for most, maybe all, other Gryffindors, there is bravery. Often recklessness. But behind the bravery is a sense of chivalry. But Peter Pettigrew was a double crossing rat. Reckless, yes. I see no other Gryffindor qualities in him, and that's the gut reaction many of us have. He doesn't belong. He's a coward. The hat must have gotten it wrong. But others pushed back. Matt Carofelli argued spying for months for Voldemort was very brave. Not for good, but still brave. And Mary Kate reminded us, Peter Pettigrew is a great example of how any trait can be bad or evil. So maybe that's the real tension here. Gryffindor bravery without morality isn't the kind of bravery we like to celebrate, but it might still qualify. And that brings us back to the Sorting Hat. Was it measuring who Peter was or what he valued A couple of episodes ago, I think. I can't remember which one. I think it was a Slytherin episode. Matt also wrote something about the way in which, like we are forgetting what the hat is doing when it sorts, and that in fact it is assessing the values that students find that they place value in. Right? And I've often maintained that sorting is as much about propaganda as it is Personality that kids show up with ideas of what's good or desirable and they project those values onto the hat. Maybe Pettigrew wanted Gryffindor. Maybe he valued bravery without ever really possessing it. There's even support for this in the text from Peter Gru. From Pettigrew himself. Petergrew, I'm just making up all of these poor manteaus today. Pettigrew himself admits, I was never like you and James. I was never brave like that. That sounds like someone who longed to be in the orbit of bravery, who attached himself to people who embodied it, but who could never quite live it himself. And yet the hat still put him there. Why? Maybe because, as Dumbledore told Harry, it's our choices that show who we truly are. Peter had the potential to choose bravery. He just didn't. Dumbledore also once said to Snape, I sometimes think we sort too soon. What if Pettigrew is the cautionary tale of what happens when you sort a child for potential they never realize? Because here's the truth. This is the reality of children. Sorting happens at 11. When you define kids that young based on traits that they may or may not grow into, you are taking a gamble. And it's actually remarkable to me that there aren't more pedigrews. Just take a moment, like a moment, and think about yourself at 11. Oof. And then think about yourself at 17. What a difference that was, what goals you had, what you thought you valued, versus who you became. Most of us would not want to be locked into the identity we projected at 11 years old. And yet the hat does exactly that. I think about these kinds of things a lot. Right? Because I think that for people who are romantically inclined, there is something to be said about choosing partners based on their potential and then based on what they present to you concretely. Right? And a lot of people talk about, oh, this person had a lot of potential, but they never lived up to it. One of the things in academia that I often think about is when you are applying for jobs, particularly jobs that are at research intensive institutions, you have to fly out and present your work. And depending on where you are in your career, you are presenting like your dissertation. Particularly if you're at the very beginning of your career and you don't have any. Most people don't have a lot of publications, you might have some, but you don't have a ton. And so really you're just trying to sell the institution on your idea and your potential. And there are a lot of People who really show up and show out and flash. And you have a lot of time to prepare, right? Like you've been preparing most of your time in graduate school to prepare yourself to do this particular, like, pony show, right? But then you get the job, and maybe you don't live up to the potential. Maybe you can't meet the expectations they thought you were going to meet. And I've been thinking a lot about this as well as, you know, because I just got tenure. I'm tucking my hair behind my ear. I don't have any hair, but I'm doing it anyway. And I realized, you know, part of the stringency of the process is that it's. Because it's a massive institutional gamble. A school isn't just making a financial investment, but they're betting on you and your research and your ability to get, you know, grants for the rest of your professional life. They're hoping and betting that you'll rise to the occasion. And sometimes they get it wrong. So imagine trying to make that call at 11. Even if you're a magical hat that can peek inside the head of a kid. How could you possibly know? And to me, that's what makes Peter so important. He's not unintelligent. He mastered how to become an Animagus. I didn't say that. Right. But you know what I'm talking about, which is not easy. And, yes, he didn't get it as fast as James and Sirius, but we know that they were really, really, really good at magic. But he still got it. And if you've ever read online about what it takes to actually do that in that process, like, that is a feat. He is capable. He passed his courses, but he did not have the thing he most wanted. Bravery. And when Voldemort rose again and his bravery was tested to the breaking point, he couldn't cosplay it anymore. And so he pivoted really, really, really, really, really badly. But the pivot that he makes embodies a truth that we hate to admit. Sometimes people don't rise to their potential, and sometimes, when they can't, even though they want to, they make really, really terrible decisions. And in a strange way, and I know this will sound crazy and it'll sound odd, and some people may not love this, but I'm kind of grateful for Peter Pettigrew. Not, obviously, for his betrayal or, like, his cruelty or any of that, but really what he represents. Because he reminds us that not everyone succeeds in embodying the traits that they prize. And that sometimes you want something deeply and just can't live it out. And maybe. Honestly, I really don't fully believe that Peter Pettigrew is an outlier. In fact, I think it's weird that most of the characters that we meet live into this truth of whatever house they're in, to the point where we can then, like, explain why they fit. Right. I can ask you who's an admirable member? And we can just list people. Like, there. There are so few outliers. Like, we've talked about some of them. We talked about Peter Pettigrew, we've talked about Percy. There's a couple of others that have popped up. But, like, more often than not, it seems like everyone just kind of. The hat just gets it right. And maybe Peter Pettigrew is the inevitable result of trying to sort children too soon. Or he's a reminder that we need to leave space and grace for people whose journeys are not linear because the house system invites a linear path. Even Neville, long may he reign, whose bravery we all love and celebrate, still follows a fairly straightforward arc. A timid boy who grows into the lion he always was. But that is not Peter's story. And maybe that's why Pettigrew feels so uncomfortable. He forces us to face the fact that we've set unrealistic expectations, not just for him, but, like, also for ourselves. We want the houses to map neatly onto our identity. For Gryffindors to always be brave but not reckless. For Slytherins to always be ambitious but not evil. For Ravenclaws to always be curious but not maniacal. For Hufflepuffs to always be loyal but not blind. Any deviation from that, and we resist. We are asking questions about whether or not that person belongs. We're asking questions about whether we belong because we have created definitions for what it means to be in these houses that are so tight, so constraining. Because these houses aren't just about the characters, they're about us. We've woven them into our identities. But here's the truth. None of us map perfectly onto the categories presented for these houses. I'm a Slytherin. Y' all know this. And I am an ambitious person. But for a very long time, I was afraid to truly be as ambitious as I am. I knew what I wanted, but I didn't act on it. I kept myself small. I had to make a conscious decision to embrace my ambition and to live into it fully. And I'm still struggling with the idea of it. And that's the part of the journey that we don't talk about the fits and the stalls and the failures. And I think that that's why Peter Pettigrew matters. His path is messy, inconsistent and nonlinear. And that is far, far, far more realistic than the neat arcs we celebrate. His story forces us to acknowledge that every House critique is also a critique of us. Every outlier is an invitation to depersonalize and see the force for the trees to realize that these categories are porous and imperfect. So, yeah, Peter Pettigrew failed. He pivoted in the worst way possible. He betrayed his friends. He is not brave. But he is also a reminder that not everyone rises, not everyone fits neatly, and not everyone lives into the values that they prize. And that's okay. It's not okay, though. Let's be clear. I want to be very clear. It's not okay to then turn that outward and punish the people around you and sacrifice them for yourself. That is not okay. But I'm grateful for Peter and what he represents. And I'm grateful to you all for raising him up again and again in this discussion. Because he lets us close out this House's journey not with neatness, but with honesty. So here's my last question as we conclude this series, this portion of our journey. If not Gryffindor, where would we put Pettigrew? I just know somebody said the band. I just. I feel that somebody said the band. But as you think about that question, think about something else. What does his sorting tell us about the hat itself? Is it a wise judge of character? Or is it just as fallible as the rest of us, seduced by potential, limited by the pressure to divine children too soon? Because maybe Pettigrew isn't just a failed Gryffindor. Maybe he's the proof that our journeys are messy, non linear and deeply, deeply human. And sometimes the bravest thing we can do is admit when the story that we want doesn't fit the reality of what is foreign.

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Professor Julian Womble (72:39)

This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Wambal and if you liked today's episode. First of all, thank you. Please feel free to like rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does where pods are cast y'. All. There will be a post episode chat on our Patreon and I know that it's going to be a good one because you all have not let me down yet. If you have not subscribed to the Patreon, you can do so for free and join in for our post episode chats. Patreon.com criticalmagictheory if you want to join as a chronic overthinker, a deep diver, or an outstanding aisle, those options are available to you as well. Please feel free to check them out. If you want to follow me on social media, please feel free to do so. Roff JW on Instagram and ProfW on TikTok. The lectures are back. Y' all get excited. I'm back in the classroom so the post will be posting y'. All. Do not forget that the survey for Severus Snape is up and waiting for you. If you're part of the listserv, you will be getting the email soon. I cannot wait for your thoughts. I hope to see you in the post episode chat. Until then, be critical and stay magical my friends. Byee.

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