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Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast
Prof Responds: The Shawls, Sherry, and Shenanigans of Sybill Trelawney
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If Sybill Trelawney was wrong all the time, how is it that she keeps being right? From crystal balls to crystal-clear prophecies, shawls to sherry, this episode asks: what happens when a woman tells the truth, but no one wants to hear it? In this...
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Professor Julian Womble
Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the Wizarding world of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Julian Womble and this is our Prof. Response episode on Cybil Trelawney. Now, y', all, it's important for you to know that I never, ever have the title of an episode before I actually record the episode. And that's due in large part to the fact that the title is birthed, carved, formed, based on the episode itself. However, in the last episode, I had a little alliterative line in the reflection on Trelawney, and many of you harangued me, harassed me, and gently brought it to my attention that it should have been the title of the episode. And I thought to myself, well, if not then, why not now? And because I am magnanimous, I've decided that this episode will be called Shawl, Sherry and Shenanigans. Because one thing about Sibyl Trelawny is if she's going to Shanann once, she's going to Shanann again, and she's gonna do it draped in shawls and drinking sherry. So, like, that feels right to me, y'. All, I want to first off, thank those of you who participated in the post episode chat, because this episode is going to be one for the ages and I cannot wait. But first, but first, it's crazy because I know that you all saw this coming, right? Because you didn't even need to open your inner eye. You just know at this point what's coming. And so you divined the bop because you knew that it was coming and you're ready for it. And so since you're ready for it, it's coming in three, in two, in one. Let's bop. We need to talk about Harry Pot Sam. Oh, I really hope that you danced, y'. All. It's important. I just. I don't know how many ways days that I can say that. Ways days. Anyways, before we get into the episode, I just have to say I've been going on an exploration of the earlier episodes of the podcast. And so I started from the beginning. I was so formal. Oh my gosh, I was so just. It is jarring. And I was listening back and I was like, how funny it is. It's like when you first meet people and you're really, really kind of straight laced and then you get very comfortable with them and all of a sudden you let your freak flag fly and that's where we're at, the freak Flag is flying and it wasn't in those first few episodes. And it's really hilarious to hear the progression. And if so, if you haven't listened back to some of the older episodes in a while, I definitely recommend it because it's actually kind of funny how official I was and now how official I'm not. Anyways, we're not going to get into that. What we will talk about though, because, you know, we just dived straight in in these episodes and there was a lot of things for us to talk about. And so there are three kind of big things that I want us to discuss. And many of you had some really great things to say in the post episode chat. And so I want us to start off with this kind of double standard and the stigmatization of divination as a subject. I think it was part of the conversation that we had. But I feel like it's a really important thing for us to consider because divination gets a lot of flack in a way that I think is kind of outsized relative to other things. And Frank said something that I thought was really interesting in the post episode chat. Frank wrote, doesn't literally everyone suck at transfiguration? But McGonagall is never called to task like Sybil justiceforcibyl. And I think this is fascinating, right, because it really does speak to the idea that Trelawny is subject to a level of scrutiny on the grounds of her subject, which is not seen as legitimate. Thus the class itself is seen as illegitimate as well. And that like, despite the fact that no one is good at transfigur, I mean, transfiguration is one of the hardest courses in some ways. Like it's rigor and the fact that everyone is bad at it makes it more legitimate, which is really interesting because we would expect to see then maybe something similar for divination, right? That the fact that everyone can't do it well means that it's hard, right? Like when I think about math, I'm not a math girly. Like I'm not good at math. I mean, I can do like 2 plus 2. I know that it equals 7, but like the idea of really complicated math, you lost me at calculus. You lost me at calculus. But there's a recognition that when someone is really good at math, it's an incredible thing. People are like, oh wow, you're really, really smart. And we don't see that level of reverence given to the notion of divination and someone being good at it. And maybe that's the presumption that Trelawny isn't good at it, but as many of us talk about, she actually is not bad at it. And I think that Kylie brought up a really interesting point saying you don't call the weatherman a fraud because it doesn't rain. When he said he just got it wrong. And this again, speaks volumes, right? Because even if you, like, when the students learn to apparate, even if you splinched, it was still amazing for them to see someone actually disappear in one spot and end up in another, even if they didn't do it wrong. And so there's questions about why it is that in divination, there is this kind of requirement to be perfect, to be infallible, to get it right every single time. When in no other subject is that like an expectation or is it a metric for how good you are at the thing? And I love the notion of the weatherman because we talk about it all the time, right? That, you know, they say it's going to rain, then doesn't rain. They say it's going to be cold and then it's hot, right? Like, and it's one of the few jobs that exist where being incorrect is kind of just part of it. And in fact, like, we recognize that as being, you know, an interesting part of. Of the job of just like, oh, it's, you know, being incorrect is kind of what it means to be a weatherman. And they get paid good money and it doesn't take away from the rigor of the job, right? Like, they have to read models, they have to understand atmospheric shifts. They have to do all of these things. And so no one says that they're bad at their jobs when they are incorrect. So then questions arise about how it is that for divination, we somehow think that she. Or that. That it's not a legitimate subject and that Trelawney is not good at it. And I think that is really fascinating. And Sarah H. I do not think she's a fraud and will die on that hill. Being dismissed does not equate to being a fraud. Just because she can be vague doesn't mean it's not true. And Eric follows up with something that I think really kind of bolsters this idea. Writing the biggest piece for me is the idea that she's a fraud. Obviously she isn't, but everyone around her is. Thinks she is. And on some level I think she might too. She doesn't remember giving two true prophecies that we know of, but there are several other Ones that do come true. The rabbit, the teacup and the Christmas dinner death all do come true. That doesn't even get into the lightning struck tower or the fact that Harry is actually the first in the class to die. It's all wrapped up in a ridiculous package, but it is very much there. And I think that that is really fascinating to think about. You know, it leads us to the next question of like, why is it that people don't think about divination this way? And Rachel offers us a bit of some insight writing. It seems that divination is the only subject that the Wizarding Society treats like, in order to be respected for your craft, you have to be 100% perfect 100% of the time. No other field demands that level of consistency. Accuracy and the pressure to perform likely contributes to Trelawney's drinking and eccentric Persona. And this resonates with me because, like, yeah, it's the only one where we really think about the fact that we have this expectation which is grounded in nothing, right? Like it's not actually grounded in a reality. None of these people are seers, none of these people are good at divination. So the expectation really makes absolutely no sense. Like you have no frame of reference about what good divination looks like and in how specific and precise it needs to be. And we're gonna talk a lot about divination in the bonus episode that I'm gonna have up for for the Deep Divers and Chronic Overthinkers later on this week. And so we're gonna have a deeper conversation that many of you brought up in the post episode chat because some of you are practitioners in a number of things that come up in divination, astrology, tarot card readings and the like. Right. And so I'm gonna take some of what you all brought to bear and your own experiences as practitioners and bring that into the conversation about divination as a topic and a subject to study in school. And so there's going to be a little bit of overlap. But I do it strikes me as fascinating because part of me thinks that the reason why people have this expectation is because they are so afraid of the unknown and the idea that someone could peer into it even a little bit scares them. And you know, it's so fascinating because I wouldn't say that I'm like a full on astrology person, but like I dabble in kind of engaging with astrology as a concept and I think there are lots of things that I find to be very true about it for Me. And I think when I first started on that particular journey, I was looking for truth. And I think that there is this perception that there's an absolutism to truth, right? Like, when you tell me that as a Gemini XYZ thing is going to happen to me, I'm like, okay. And I want it to happen exactly that way. And that's simply not how it works. And I've noticed that a lot of astrology, kind of creators online, people who engage in the practice will say, basically, kind of take what feels right for you and leave the rest. And I feel like people don't like that idea. They want you to tell them exactly what is going to happen. And I think that what is true in these other topics, like charms, like transfiguration or even, like math or biology is that there is a perception that your expectation will be met if the conditions are correct, right? And so it's like in math, 2 plus 2 always equals 17, right? And so I. Wait, is that right? Anyways, it's going to be a running bit, I think. I think that, like. But it's like, you know what? Or at least we believe that we know the science behind mathematics and why it operates the way that it does. And so as a result, we take a lot of solace in the groundedness of that, right? We take a lot of solace in the idea that, like, we know what's coming. When you put two plus two up on a board or put it into a calculator, you know you're going to get four. And there is a safety in that, a groundedness in that. And the idea of transfiguration is like, yeah, I may mess up, but I know what it's supposed to do. Like, I know I'm supposed to turn my rat into a cup. Like, I know what the. What all of the things are meant to do. And knowing that helps me then, like, recognize my own merit. It helps me recognize, you know, that I am in control. And I think at the end of the day, all of the people who we see being the most critical of divination as a topic are people who want to be in control. Dumbledore, we see him scheme, scam, manipulate, and do whatever it takes to make sure that the thing he wants to happen happens, right? Like, he wants power. We see McGonagall, who is a person who works in this very grounded form of magic, be belittling towards Divination. Hermione, who struggles with the more intangible aspects of magic. And so that I Think at the root of this kind of stigmatization of divination is a desire for control and a recognition that there are parts of magical learning and magical living where you cannot have control. And so, as a result, the magical community has said it's illegitimate because we don't leave room for inaccuracy, we don't leave room for imperfection. And our expectation is that if you're going to tell us the future, then you need to do it in a way where we can control what then happens. And I get it. As a person who navigates anxiety on a daily basis, I find that releasing myself to the unknown is one of the most terrifying things that I have to do on a fairly regular basis, because life, lifes and you can't be in control of every aspect of it. Right. And so I get. I get the impulse then to delegitimize the idea of divination. I do, though, think that it is unfair for us to. To not acknowledge the fact that Trelawny does predict the future. And it probably is, simply because I think, like, there's a dichotomy for us to think about here, right? It's like, is it that we think she's a fraud or is it that we don't like what she's saying? And I think more often than not, it's the latter. And that is different than being fraudulent. Right? Like, that's not the same. Right? Because we aren't mad at a weather person who said it was gonna rain and then it didn't rain. Right? It was a beautiful sunny day. We're so happy that they were wrong. And so more often than not, the only time that we're upset is when the truth of what is real doesn't match the desire that we had. And I feel like for Trelawny, that is a lot of what people don't like, because she does bring a lot of histrionics. And she also brings a lot of discussions surrounding death. And I feel like people don't like that. And that's justified and understandable, but that doesn't mean she's a fraud. It just means that the things that she's saying are not things that we want to hear. And that is a very, very, very. One of the other topics that came up, but wasn't, like, deeply discussed in the episode was Trelawney's connection to seers of old. We know that her, I believe it was her great grandmother, was a very known and well known seer within the magical world. But I also think that, you know, many of us brought up in the post episode chat, the connection to just the kind of understanding and mythos of oracles and Sybils and prophets of the time of Greek mythology, right? And we know that as a classics major, JKR undoubtedly pulled from that. And one of the bigger pieces of that lore is the reality of these women. Because many of the oracles, if not at least all of the ones that kind of were oracles of consequence, were women. And they were seen as hysterical, right? And they were often maligned for their gift that had been bestowed upon them by the gods. And so it strikes me as interesting as we think about kind of the way that we understand Sibyl Trelawney and how she's viewed, how divination is viewed, right, that obviously there is an intentionality to the way that she is written as a character that mirrors our understanding of. That mirrors our understanding of how these women were viewed. And there's a very specific kind of gendered component to this portrayal and this particular understanding, both in the Harry Potter text, but also in Greek mythology, right? Because we know that Greek mythology was more often than not, as far as we know, written by men. And we know that historically, even, you know, obviously post the kind of mythological age, that there was something about the notion of hysterical women, quote, unquote, I'm using air quotes for the notion of hystericalness and the fact that they shouldn't be believed, that this hyper understanding of this hyper emotional piece of their. Of their lives is one of the things that make them deficient. And we see that even in the kind of current moment that we live in, with our understanding of kind of the role of emotion. And in the Harry Potter books, right, we see that most of our main characters really prize this idea of not being dramatic, not being overly emotional. I brought this up in the Ginny episode. But, you know, one of the things that Harry says about Ginny is when he breaks up with her because he's gonna go on the Horcrux hunt. And. And she's kind of like, yeah, whatever, like, I knew you probably would do something heroic like this. And he's like, she never was overly emotional. And that's one of the things that Harry likes about her. And so we are conditioned in these books to really look at emotional outpouring as something that is bad. And then when you connect that to what we just talked about in the last section of this episode of, you know, the things being talked about being out of our control, it's a perfect storm for the way that we then understand how people view Sibyl Trelawney and how people undoubtedly were expected to view women in mythology who were seen as these oracles because they were seen as being not all the way there mentally right. Especially when most of the Sibyls, which is what they were called in some of the lore across that era, not even just in Greece, but in other parts of the world at the time they were called Sibyls. And they were often predicting wars and death and famine as kind of harbingers of doom that were being sent by, more often than not, the God Apollo. And so when you juxtapose or when you. When you consider the fact that those things are coming from these kinds of individuals, women who are giving us histrionics mainly because they're kind of being inhabited by a deity who is speaking this kind of horrific thing, we can see why there is a lot of trepidation and questioning of legitimacy on the part of these individuals. And that when we ground that particular reality in the Harry Potter world, it stands to reason that there are lots of justifications for why Trelawney is viewed the way that she is, both by other characters in the books, but also by us as readers. Amanda wrote Sybil constantly makes accurate predictions from Hermione leaving the class to. To Neville breaking his teacup. Even sensing a piece of Voldemort's soul in Harry when she says he was born in midwinter. These examples are often overlooked but prove Cybil's power is real and reliable. Liz the Lez says something similar writing when they're studying astrology and their birth charts, Trelawney tells Harry he was clearly born in Midwinter and he corrects her that his birthday is actually in July. This tries to be used as evidence that she's bad at divination. But you know who was born in Midwinter? Voldiva. You know who's in grave danger of an early gruesome death? That little piece of Volde Vee's soul hiding out in Harry, once you take into account, once you take into consideration, rather, it definitely improves her batting average. I think that this is fascinating as well because it shows like, the sheer power of what she is able to do, that looking within the beyond the veil into what lives inside of Harry and in a way that very few other people could actually do. But again, the package as was discussed earlier, leads people to believe that she's incorrect. And what's more is that because people are predisposed to think that she is wrong, because of the way that it's presented, people are more inclined to not want to believe her. And again, there are a lot of parallels for us to draw about that when it comes to the gendered understanding of what it would look like if Trelawny weren't a woman. Right. I think there's a reason. I mean, when we think, again, historically, not even within Greek mythology, about the kind of hysterical perceptions and portrayals of women and the way that those things are then used as a means by which to delegitimize people and their truth and the truth that they are telling, it makes sense. And what both Liz and Amanda are highlighting here is, is the reality that she is spot on, but she's seeing past what people believe on the surface and is seeing something much deeper. But because of the package and the body that she operates in, people are much more predisposed to believe that she is simply lying and not telling the truth and bad at her job. Mikayla wrote, trelawny is the descendant of Cassandra who was cursed to see the truth and terrible things, but was never believed. Like her, Sybil is dismissed, even though her predictions are frequently accurate and ominously precise. And there is something to the idea of a woman speaking her truth in the way that people don't like it, not only just because they can't control what is being said, but rather because what is prized is not being displayed. Right. The prized emotionlessness is not being presented. Thus, what you are saying is not seen as legitimate. And I think that, like, there is a very tangible, frustrating reality that I think Trelawney presents to us, because in these books, the people that we believe and the people that we like and. And the people who we are seeing as kind of reliable individuals, all present in a very specific way. And we've talked about this when we think about Umbridge, when we think about Lavender. And I think we can add Trelawney to the list of people of women who are seen in a very specific way because of the way that they emote, because of the way that they present themselves. And those presentations lead us to make specific kinds of beliefs about who they are and how serious they are. I think one of the things that many of us brought up in our discussion of McGonagall was the fact that she is this, like, very austere. She means business, right? Like, she's a badass. That's language that many of you use, particularly in response to my kind of mom mess dichotomy. Right? And I think that that's obviously true. Like Minerva McGonagall is that girl, like she is that witch. However, would we think that if her performance looked different, if all of the behavior was the same, but her performance looked different? One of the biggest critiques that we see Hermione leverage against a lot of girls and women in these books is that, you know, she doesn't like feminine performance. And I think we can always use Hermione as a good barometer of, you know, whether a person is, you know, presenting in a very specific gendered way. Because if Hermione doesn't like you, it means you probably are right. And we know that she doesn't like Trelawney. And I think that there are lots of reasons why, but I think that Trelawney's presentation of who she is as a person, the shawls, the sherry. Well, less of the sherry. We'll get into that in the next discussion point. But the Shenanigans, for sure, it all speaks to such a very specific thing that does not resonate with Hermione or Harry or Ron as something that is legitimate. And so when we think about what that means for Trelawny, she very much is in the same vein as all of these women of old who were seen as individuals who are not legitimate. Right. Who are not to be believed, who are not telling the truth. And I think it goes beyond not just wanting to hear what they have to say, but it is, because I think it's the performance, and I think the performance presented by Trelawney is one that people who are already predisposed to see her as fraudulent are feeling very validated in that because of the way that she presents it. And. And I think that part of the re. Part of that presentation is this inherently gendered understanding of Shenanigans. Right. And, you know, we don't really get a lot of men who are hysterical in their presentation, except for Filch, and he's a squib, so we don't really give him that much legitimacy to begin with. And so I think that there is a fascinating perspective here on not only the past and the connection between that. That this Sybil has with the Sybils of Greek mythology, but also the notion of gender and believability and the way that Trelawney shenanigans truly do undermine the way that she is perceived and the truth that she is putting out and. And why. And if people. I want to spend a little time discussing something that we know is true for Trelawney, but it kind of is presented to us in passing, and that's the sherry of it. All right, we talked a little bit about the shenanigans, we talked a little bit about the shawls, and now we got to talk about the sheri. And I want to preface this by saying that obviously no one. Well, I'm not advocating for heavy drinking drinking at all in this particular discussion, but it is something that I do want us to talk about because I think that many of you brought up the idea of her drinking and offered really interesting understandings of why it is that she drinks the way that she does and the way that we come to understand her relationship with alcohol. And I think I placed it at this point in the episode because we've had two different discussions surrounding the fact that she is not believed because of the way that divination is perceived. She's not believed because of the way that she is presenting the information and that the presentation of it is not something that people are predisposed to want to believe. And I think that what feels right for me then is to say, and so how does this affect her? How is it then that we can expect that her own relationship with her gift manifest? And how then does she kind of navigate the reality and understanding that despite what she is doing, which is presenting truth, it's not being believed? And sometimes she doesn't even remember what she has done. And, you know, we can say you don't remember, but I think that there are also ways that, like, your body does. Like there are things I can't imagine that you just have this prediction that and it's over, and you can't feel that you have predicted something. There's. I just have to believe that there is some way that you've been inhabited by an entity that does not. Not leave a mark. Right? And so when you. When that happens to you, and then, you know, people are completely and utterly and consistently delegitimizing your existence, your gift, your words. How do you navigate that? And I think that what is true for Trelawney is an unfortunate truth, is that her alcohol consumption is a byproduct of her trying to navigate this reality. Eric wrote, as for her drinking, I think there are a few possible explanations. First, she could think she's a fraud and is drinking to cope with the stress. Second, she knows she isn't a fraud and is drinking to cope with the stress of not being taken seriously. Third, she knows she isn't a fraud and she's drinking to cope with all the awful things she keeps seeing. Fourth, she thinks there needs to be some sort of catalyst for her seeing. There are several historical examples of seers using mind altering substances to get into their prophetic mode. I think for me, two and three feel right, right? The drinking to cope with not being taken seriously and the drinking to cope with the awful things that she keeps seeing. Because while, yes, we've seen her go into a transfer to prophecies, there are still other ones that she's been giving and has been lucid for. And which means. Which stands to reason then that there are other things that she is seeing without having to go into this kind of state where she is seeing awful things. And she talks a lot about actually the plight of having the sight that she has. And we simply take that as someone who is performing and not really speaking any truth. But we can also imagine a world where it's like, yeah, I wouldn't want to know that. And what it is to see those things coming. And it all feels very much like she's just putting on a show. Like she's not actually. It's not true, it's not real. But many of you have pointed to. And I, you know, gave a couple of quotes from a few people, Mikayla, from Liz, about the fact that she's telling the truth about a lot of things. And if that is true, then she is actively engaging in the. The divining of really horrendous things and what kind of pressure that puts on a person. Rachel wrote, no wonder Sybil puts so much pressure on herself to quote, unquote, play the part and is constantly drinking sherry to deal. Right? The notion of coping with what it is that she's seeing and undoubtedly the look of fear and trepidation on the faces of her students, because that's the other thing is like it's not even just how it affects her, but she's sitting there and looking at how it affects other people as well. And so like that. And we know that she is a fairly empathetic person. You know, Emma mentioned this in the discussion we had in the episode. I haven't forgotten to post our conversation. For the chronic overthinkers and deep divers. Life is hectic, but it will be up this week, I promise. But Emma mentions it, right? And I think that, you know that she is a solace. Trelawney is a solace for poverty, for Lavender and undoubtedly other students. And so there is a level of empathy that she has. And I think again, it comes off as being inauthentic because we think it's all part of the show. I think that there's a truth to it though. And I think that she is someone who does feel bad about the fact that she is predicting people's deaths, that she, I think she likes the power of, you know, affecting people that way because it's like, oh, if I can't get you to believe me, then at least I can get you to hear me. And your emotional reaction lets me know that I've affected you in some way. And when you are so starved for feeling effective, you will take whatever you can get. But I also do think that there are aspects of the gift that can be very emotionally taxing when you see the way that it affects the people for whom you are predicting. Mali wrote perhaps the low level fortune telling aspects of divination are less prestigious than the capital P prophecies. And she's an alcoholic because she feels inadequate that she's never hit the big time, so to speak. I wonder how finding out that she did have a very important prophecy on her record might have impacted her and was Dumbledore right to deny her the information that she truly did have the gift, after all, for decades, just to protect her from the fear of being hunted by Voldemort? I think this is fascinating because what many of you bring up in your discussion of her relationship with alcohol is the fact that it is a coping mechanism that she uses to to navigate the gift that she has and also to navigate the world that she is living in that does not believe her and believes her to be a fraud, and that there may be some internalization of that belief that she is struggling to deal with. And again, I don't want this to be some sort of glorification of excessive drinking, but I do think that there is something to be said about the reality of what it means to be someone who struggles with navigating their own life and also having that difficulty projected back on them by people who are in your orbit. And so again, I don't condone what she does, but I think this helps us understand why she does it. And that feels important as we kind of think about who Trelawney is and why she operates the way that she does. The last thing that I want to discuss for this Prof. Response episode is a topic that came up quite a bit in the post episode chat, which was Trelawney's heroism and the question of not only what does it mean to be a hero, but is Trelawney a hero? And there were lots of thoughts about this idea and lots of people brought lots of things to bear. And so I want to start off with a quote that came from Anonymous saying. Saying that Trelawney is not a hero because the battle happened to her is wild. She could have easily left. She stays. She arms herself and others with crystal balls. She finds Death Eaters to pick a fight with. And this is something that lots of people brought up, you know, the crystal balls. But more than that, it's the who, right? We see her in a specific moment hurling, hurling the crystal balls at Fenrir Greyback. And I think that many of us recognize, you know, that this is happening when he is attacking lavender, which we've talked about in both of the lavender episodes. And it shows us a number of things about who Trelawney is. But it also, speaking in terms of the heroism aspect of it, is a recognition that this is a. That's a very dangerous thing to do, right? Like Fenrir is obviously a very dangerous person. And yes, Trelawney loves lavender also, simultaneously, concurrently. And she's putting herself in a lot of danger doing this. And I think that that is something that's really important here. Amanda wrote, sybil could have left or hid in her tower, but she willingly fought and defended Hogwarts to the best of her abilities when she did not have to. That makes her a hero. And Rachel wrote in my brain, a heroic act is what we would expect, quote, unquote, or any good person to do in any given situation. Someone who is a hero is not only a good person, but someone who goes above and beyond what we would expect them to do for a given situation. I think that's why we've historically used a Battle of Hogwarts as a decision point because we were mostly talking about purebloods fighting in the Battle of Hogwarts and is a tangible thing we can point to as something that they don't have to do, but go above and beyond to do. It feels above and beyond because choosing to actively fight against a system that benefits you seems above and beyond what any quote unquote good person who is a pureblood would do. By contrast, I think our bar is different for Half Bloods because the system doesn't favor them. We see this in our definitions of what we think good half bloods are. Someone who works to dismantle the system. This tells me that our bar is higher for half bloods that are and that fighting in the Battle of Hogwarts is simply an expectation of characters who we think are, quote, unquote, good people and happen to be half Bloods. To contrast Sybil and Hagrid for A moment we think of Hagrid as a hero because not only does he fight in the Battle of Hogwarts, but he goes above and beyond entreating with the Giants, participating in being, participating in Harry's removal from Privet Drive and many other examples of actively fighting against Voldev. Meanwhile, Sybil remains apolitical except for the fighting in the Battle of Hogwarts, which is why I don't think she's a hero, but someone who is a good person who did some heroic acts. And I think this is fascinating and I hope that we get to talk about this a little bit more in the post episode chat because I think that there is something to what Rachel brings to us here which is is there a consistency in the way that we're understanding her heroism? And to what extent then is that heroism conditioned by or moderated by the idea of the social cost that you have to pay for participating in this? Right. Pure Bloods are paying a much higher social cost because they are fighting against the kind of ideology by going against Voldemort, at least to a certain extent, whereas Half Bloods seemingly have a vested interest in bringing down Voldemort and what he represents because they are not beneficiaries of the Pure Blood system. And so then it makes more sense to us then that they would be the ones to fight. So that when we think about heroism it's more of a well this is what we expect for you to do in the first place type of vibe versus this is something that you don't need to be doing and you're doing it anyway, which makes you a hero. And how do we reconcile that? Because that is true. If we go back and listen to and engage with the first quote unquote season of the podcast where we were talking about purebloods, a lot of what we discuss and a lot of what I brought to bear in our discussion of heroism was the idea that they were doing things that they didn't need to do and thus they were heroic. How do we reconcile that here for individuals who in theory do need to be fighting. But I do think that other quotes from Amanda and from Anonymous highlight the fact that she did not need to do this. She could have left, she could have. And then other people brought up in the post episode chat where was she going to go? And I think that's also a very interesting thing for us to contemplate because it's like, well, does that make her more of a hero or less of a hero? Because she didn't have anywhere to go. So because she didn't have anywhere to go, she had to stay and fight. And if it becomes obligatory, does that undermine the heroism aspect of it? And I really want us to kind of work through this and I love this conversation because I think as we get to certain characters, Snape, this is going to be a question that's going to bring a lot of chaos. And as excited as I am about it, I'm also excited for us to kind of nail down what we think. That is not an invitation for you all to start your pontificating about Snape as a hero in this particular post episode chat. Save that for his episodes. Save it for his episodes. Write it down in your notes. Some of you have already explained to me that you are taking notes and getting ready for those episodes for Dumbledore and for Snape. Put it in those Put it in your notes app. We will get there. However, simultaneously, concurrently and in this moment. We are focusing on Trelawney and I think that there is something to be said about, you know, the stakes for her and, and how we understand those stakes as they relate to the perceived sacrifices that she ultimately makes in her involvement in the battle of Hogwarts. Kiley brought up a different kind of heroism, which I do think is interesting. Saying to the student who doesn't feel seen, questions whether they should change to fit in. I would say Trelawney is a hero because she doesn't change who she is just because her colleagues, students in the magical world, laugh at her. And that's a different kind of heroism. And I don't want to take that away from her because I do think that Trelawny's commitment to her authenticity to being who she truly is, even if it is a performance for the sake of her own feeling of powerfulness and grandeur, I think it still matters that she's not shifting it because people don't see her as legitimate and that she's holding onto it and maintaining it no matter what. And there's something so important and laudable about that. And there's a bravery that comes along with living in your truth, especially when you know the power that your words have over people and they don't believe you. This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you liked today's episode, first of all, thank you. Please feel free to, like, rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does where pods are cast. Thank you all so much. For those of you who participated in the post episode chat for the Trelawney episode. Without you, this episode doesn't exist. And so I am so grateful for the time that you have taken to do that. Please remember that the Hufflepuff survey is up and it is on the Patreon patreon.com criticalmagictheory Please feel free to fill that out. I am going to be recording that episode very soon and I cannot wait to dive into the puffs with you all y'. All. Please feel free to follow me on social media roff jw on Instagram, profw on TikTok talk. Send me an email at criticalmagictheorygmail.com and check out our website criticalmagic theory.com y'. All. Thank you again so much. I can't wait for the post episode chat. It's going to be amazing. I can just see that y' all listen that Hufflepuffs don't forget. Okay? Until then, be critical and stay magical, my friends. Bye.