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Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast
Prof Responds- The Tragedy of Severus Snape
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In this Prof Response episode, Professor Wamble revisits Severus Snape to explore the heartbreak and moral ambiguity that define him. Building on listener insights, we wrestle with what it means to be “good enough,” how the Order of the Phoenix...
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Welcome to Critical Magic Theory where we deconstruct the wizarding world of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Juan Womble and today we are having our second Prof. Response episode about the one and only Severus Snape, y'. All. Many of us were kind of making comments about how absolutely insane the first rap post episode chat was and this one was a little bit less. And honestly, it was by design because the next Snape episode is going to be fire, Brimstone, reign supreme, chaos, absurdity, foolishness. And I feel like it's nice to have a little bit of a lull. And having that lull did not do anything in terms of diluting the depth that we all brought to bear in the post episode chat. If you haven't gone to check it out, I highly recommend that you do so. It was such a good and meaningful conversation. I was also so happy because I was a little nervous about this episode. I'm not gonna hold you because I was like, well, you know, the questions here aren't, you know, the most chaotic. But then as I was going through them I was like having all of these revelations and some of them I was having while recording the episode. And so it was really, I was really happ happy that many of you liked the episode. Also particularly liked the reflection because, yeah, I don't know, I mean I got to like nerd out about social constructs and identity, which is what I do for a living. And that was really cool. And I'm really glad that you all were willing to Go on that ride with me because, yeah, it was fun and interesting and I think that there are a lot of parallels that we can draw. And anyways, this Prof. Response episode is going to be interesting as well because even though there weren't like massive fireworks in the last episode, what we did have was a really meaningful conversation about a lot of things that I think we connect with personally. And I'm excited to spend some time diving into those things and spending a little bit more time with your thoughts that you gave in the post episode chat. But before we do any of that, you all know, yes, yes, we are still in the Bob Bop era. Okay, we're still there. You spent this time massaging your neck trying to make sure that the muscles were loose enough for you to do this. I'm not responsible. I will not be taking any responsibility for any neck related injuries. So if this is not your ministry, stay away from it because it's not my business. You heard it here first. We're not doing it. But what we are doing is bopping. Okay, in three, in two, in one. Let's bop. I hope you danced, y'. All. I am so excited to get into this episode. And before we do, just a very brief announcement. Endorsement invitation. For those of you who are chronic overthinkers or deep divers, if you have not joined the Discord, you need to do it. If that's your vibe. Now, I know that I was supposed to put up instructions and they were sent to me and I haven't posted them yet because I'm derelict in duty, but I will do that. I will do it. Okay? Life has been hectic. Or so they say. I don't know what that was supposed to mean. Anyways, I was trying to be cryptic, but I just haven't done it yet. So, anyways, but join us there. We have lots of different conversations. I'm currently stockpiling all of my galleons. I don't know for what. I don't normally use this kind of spending or saving strategy when it comes to having money, but I'm practicing and the Discord is helping me do that. There's, you know, we can duel, we get money, we can cast spells and change our names. We also have, like, lots of just different rooms for lots of things. I turned around and there's like, rooms where we're sharing our fashion. There's room where we're sharing our food, we're sharing our pets. Listen, y', all, this is a community space. And if you by chance are already a member of the Discord and would like to bring an endorsement to the post episode chat. Feel free to do so. But if you if that's not your vibe, that's totally fine as well. I know that some of us like to listen to the podcast, do our thing and be on our way and that is cool. You are also welcome here and we are glad that you are here. And so if you haven't joined us for a post episode chat yet, if you're interested in looking around and looking at what it means to be a chronic overthinker, deep diver and outstanding owl, please feel free to check out the patreon patreon.com criticalmatictheory also, before we get started, the Dumbledore survey will begin the rollout soon. So if you have been waiting, if you have been biding your time, if you have been writing your essays, if you've been doing all of these things, your moment to shine is coming and you need to be ready because it's going to be a time and so just get your spirits in place for that. But before we go into Dumble's Abby, we've got to talk about Sevy Sev, because there are some things that you all brought to bear in the post episode chat that we must get into. And so get into them we shall right now. So the first thing that I want to talk about is the ethics of Good Enough. So many of us really wrestled with whether Snape's good deeds outweighed his cruelty, or if quote unquote good even applies to him at all. Many of the responses reflect how the series invites us to kind of confuse effectiveness with virtue. And I think that this is particularly true for Snape. And I think this is also a conversation that we're going to be having as it pertains to Dumbledore as well, because he is another one who lives in this kind of murky space. So we're just getting our minds prepared both for the conversation that we're going to have about Snape in the next episode next week, but then also about Dumby Dee. Okay, Cassidy wrote, it feels like many of us are less concerned with quote, is Snape good? And more with quote, is Snape good enough? You can't argue with some of his contributions, but that doesn't change the fact that his past and the ideals he aligns himself with are ethically and morally, let's just say it, bad. Matt wrote good Enough implies some good to begin with. Can we really, truly say there's good in Snape? He's he acts selfishly, clings to grudges, bullies, students. Are we ascribing good to him just because he made the ultimate sacri? Fenty wrote, someone can be a bad person but do heroic things. That kind of messiness is where Snape lives. For me, I'm 10 toes down on him being a bad person. But being a double agent who ultimately helped bring down Vuldekans was heroic. And Sarah Marie wrote, I've learned in repairing harm that intent doesn't erase impact. Snape's actions helped the order, but his motivations were selfish and obsessive. He's a good soldier and a bad person. And I think that this is incredible. I love the tension here because I think that there are very few characters in these books that give us this level of tension because the world is really kind of painted in this kind of very odd, monochromatic way, right? Where good is good and bad is bad. And that's just how it is. And I think that there is a way that Snape invites us to have to really consider a lot of things, right? There are questions about whether or not the sacrifices that he's made allow for us to see him as redeemed, as redeemable. There are questions about, you know, what one's morality has to be for other people to appreciate and give you your due. There are other questions about, you know, whether good can be measured by what one accomplishes or must it include the why and the how. And again, like, during the episode, I spend a lot of time kind of highlighting the reality that there's no way any of this. There's no way that Voldemort would have been vanquished. There's no way that any of that would have happened without Snape Severus Snape was an integral part of all of that. And for me, and maybe this is my Slytherin coming out, I really couldn't give a single whatever if you fill in the blank about why or how. Like, I can hold in conversation the reality that, yeah, like, he's a disaster. He is someone who spent a considerable amount of time torturing children, but he had a role to play and he played it and it was necessary. And I don't have to try to reconcile the way that I feel about him, which is not positive, to acknowledge the fact that, well, you know, even a broke clock is right twice a day. And sometimes you need people who are gonna be morally dubious to do the morally dubious, necessary things. It's interesting because I know that there are some fanfic listeners, readers who love that world in that space. And I was thinking about Manacold, which is a very dark fanfic that's gotten a lot of publicity and recently was kind of re envisioned in its own world and its own space. And that book has recently come out. So it's part of, like, the Zeitgeist now and the conversation that people are having. But in the fan fiction, Hermione is really advocating during the war. And I won't give away too much for people who wanna read it, but she's really advocating for the usage of dark magic because she's like, we gotta fight fire with fire. And right now, all of this kind of moral whatever is not getting us what we need. We're not getting any wins. And so we need. We need to be able to go to places morally that are maybe seen as bankrupt, but they are effective. And I think that that is kind of how I view Snape. I think that there are times where, like, you know, you know, they always say, you know, you have to choose between what is right and what is easy. And sometimes I think doing the right thing is great, but is it effective? And I think we have to ask ourselves that question sometimes. You know, I know that we live in a time now where the words of Michelle Obama, when they go low, we go high. And again, maybe it's a Slytherin in me, but if you go low, I just want you to know I'm going to hell. Like, lock, stock, barrel, I'm hellbound. Because sometimes that's the way. Not every time, but sometimes that's the way. And I feel like there's a way in which these books invite us to understand morality in this kind of very particular, like, this is good and this is bad, right? I think a lot about the moment where Harry gets mad at Lupin when Lupin's like, stop disarming people and start, like, really going for the jugular. Cause they're trying to kill you. And Harry's like, no, I don't want to do that. Because that makes me no better than them. Fast forward. And Harry is putting people under the imperious curse. And here's the thing. I'm not judging Harry for it. I'm like, yeah, it was a necessity. You needed to do that. You had to make that decision. It was required of you. And I think that there are times where goodness has to be summed up in the outcome and not in the action. Because every action that you take for the outcome isn't always going to Be good. And I think, you know, like, we talk a lot about the greater good and we're going to spend a lot of time talking about that when we get to Dumbledaddy. But I think Snape also embodies a lot of that for us as well. Right. Like, what he did was for the greater good and it was necessary. And so there is a way in which I'm not actually interested in the morality of a person all the time. Like, when it comes to getting things done, I think it's almost overly simplistic as far as I'm concerned, to be like, well, you didn't do it the right way. It's like. But it kind of needed to get done. And I think about other members in the Order and I'm like, who else is gonna do that work? And there's more to be said about the Order. So I'm gonna stop us here, give us a little music to transition, and then we're gonna talk about the Order of the Phoenix as an organization. Because I think that some of our own thought process about Snape and the Order is built on the way that we perceive the Order as an organization, as a collective. And I think there is a lot to unpack there. So open up those bags, y', all, because it's time to unpack. So the next theme that came up in the post episode chat was one that discusses the Order of the Phoenix and how we understand the compromise of our morality. The discussion turned inward towards the Order itself and questioning whether the Resistance was truly righteous or just another institution of moral grayness that uses all kinds of means, including manipulation, to justify its actions. Erica wrote, the Order couldn't have meant to be effective because I still don't understand why a select few adults in the Order weren't informed about the Horcruxes. They were all doing little missions that didn't really matter. In the end, it seemed like Dumbledore was just trying to make people feel productive. Tamara wrote, how pure and light is the Order really seems like symbolically it's on a pedestal curated by Dumbledore's rhetoric. But in reality, it's like any other political resistance organization that has infighting, drama and disagreements. The kids view it and the adults spin it as this wholly pure paragon of good. But in actuality, it seems like it is intentionally chaotic and disorganized. The only common goal is the outcome, giving it its power as a symbol. But how to get this goal is disagreed upon and messy. The only person who truly has the pieces we assume is Dumbledore who doles out morsels of info strategically in a way that no other single member can fully connect the dots. Necessary perhaps, but still not what you want, what you would expect or idealize in the vein of the side of light and good and righteousness. Carmen wrote, most Order members don't really have a stake in dismantling wizard supremacist supremacist in dismantling wizard supremacist systems. They just don't want Voldy and his cronies messing with their rights. Snape's intentions weren't pure, but his contributions probably did more than their most of theirs. Lorian wrote, I've always maintained Snape is a good Order member. The Order was created to defeat Voldemort. That's its only purpose. Snape fully signed up to this and does more than most to bring it about. Uh huh. Well, well, well, how exciting. I think there is a way that you know, the Order of the Phoenix is presented to us as the antithesis of everything that the Death Eaters stand for. And it may be like to a certain degree that's I though am with a lot of the commenters about what the Order is actually about. And I think that you know, the Order represents a lot of what I believe the Ministry of Magic represents, which is illusion. It's meant to make people feel safe. It's meant to make people feel effective. And I think oh there is a way that like we are living in a time where, where feeling effective is important because we all are kind of struggling with what to do. Especially in moments when we feel powerless. There is a way in which we seek out kind of whatever activity, whatever thing that we can do to make us feel effective. And I think that there is is an importance to the idea of that. But I think what people tend to miss sometimes and I'm wondering if this is true for the Order of the Phoenix and I hope we can get into this conversation in the post episode chat which is, you know, are we so addicted to the feeling of efficacy that we actually don't care about whether the thing is actually effective? Like what pray tell, is the Order actually doing? Like what is it that we are expecting them to accomplish? Right? Like they are not doing anything. Like they they the only things that we see the Order doing. I should say we see them in the Ministry outside of the Department of Mysteries. We know that Lupin is down parlaying with werewolves. Hagrid is going and talking to giants. But what's the end goal here? I mean Obviously the end goal is to bring down Voldemort. But like the Death Eaters are united by an ideology. And I don't know what the ideology is for the Order of the Phoenix. I think that the, the way, I think the way that Voldemort gets Death Eaters on his side is with the belief that they are better than Muggleborns, than non magical people, than some half Bloods, right? What is the thing that is uniting the Order of the Phoenix? Is it just bringing down Voldemort? Because if that's the case, then I do think that Carmen and Erika and Laurien and Tamara all bring up really good points, right? Particularly this last point that Tamara brought to bear. I can't help but see how the Order is like any other wartime coalition, united by outcome but not belief. Like there's no unified ideological position that the Order of the Phoenix has. They simply want to bring down Voldemort. And I think that like some of us may say, well, duh, yeah, and I think to a certain extent, like, yeah, that's fine. But then we have to kind of curate our expectations of them then because that's all they want. And they're not fighting against Pure Blood supremacy. They're not fighting against Anti Muggle anything. They're just, I would argue, I'm like, are they even fighting at all? I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I would call it that. I think that, I think that they, they symbolize something meaningful. They symbolize resistance. I mean, and what's interesting, right, is I, when I'm in my class right now we're finishing up Order of the Phoenix and so we've been spending a lot of time talking about Dumbledore's army. And I think that there is a way that, like thinking about what the DA's purpose was, which was to teach the students what they felt they weren't being taught. And they had an ideological bend in terms of their belief about needing to be prepared to go and fight against Voldemort which feels kind of Order of the Phoenix adjacent but in some ways I think a little bit more cohesive. Because it's not just like, oh, we're good people who don't want bad things to happen. It's like, no, we all fundamentally have a belief about what it is that we should know. And we have come together under the auspices that that belief is our motivation that we need to be prepared and ready to fight, to stand up against. And like, because we believe the Same thing. And it's a fundamental. Like, we need to be prepared because here is the truth of the situation. Voldemort is back and we are unprepared for that. And I don't know what it is for the Order of the Phoenix. Like, it is kind of a ragtag group of people and the cohesion all comes in there. What I would call. It's me, I'm saying I'm owning it. What I would call blind trust in Dumbledore. And so that when we think about the role that Snape plays in it, are any of the other Order members any different than him in terms of their belief? Like, we spent a considerable amount of time talking about whether or not Snape was, you know, someone who actually didn't believe in pure blood supremacy. But like, we don't know Mundungus ideology. We know that Sirius had some latent certainly, like magical supremacist views, if not pure blood supremacist views. We know that the Weasleys also have that. We talked about that. And so it's like, ideologically, it's not as if all these people are super progressive. So what is the thing that we think brings them together as the Order? And to what extent is that actually effective in bringing Voldemort to an end versus feeling effective and feeling like you're standing up against a thing, which in some ways you are, but in some ways you're not. And I. The Order, you know, and it. It's interesting because I've not spent a considerable amount of time thinking about the Order because. And to me, I feel like the Order is relatively. Is a relative non. Entity as far as I'm concerned. Because I think what did. What are you doing? Like, what have you done? Like, what have you accomplished? You. You didn't even get the prophecy. Like, I feel like it's kind of like Dumbledore's way of getting people who would be in his way out of his way. It's making them feel effective so that he can, like, so that he can effectively get Harry in the position he wants him to be in. But he's not sharing any information with them. He's not. They don't know anything. It's just blind trust in this guy. But this is not a Dumbledore episode. This is an episode on Severus Snape. And to that end, I say, I'm not convinced that any of the people who are in the Order, save maybe like Mad Eye Moody, maybe Lupin, are any more like truly ideologically bent on ending supremacy as we understand it as we know it. I think they all want to just bring down Voldemort. And I think that they're all trying to do it in ways that make them feel effective, but it really isn't until the rubber hits the road in the Battle of Hogwarts and they have to be like boots on the ground. And that's when we get to see them, but they not even as an organization. We get to see them as individuals who are fighting against other individuals. And I think that there's something really interesting for us to kind of think about there because I feel like we are led to believe as readers that the Order of the Phoenix is an outlandishly effective and necessary institution in order to bring down Voldemort. And I think that there are moments where we kind of get a sense of that, you know, when they have to go and take the Dursleys away. I get why we would expect for them to be part of that. But in terms of, like, the true resistance, like the Death leaders are running amok and I'm not quite sure what the. What are the Phoenixes doing to mitigate any of that in Half Blood Prince and in Deathly Hallows. So I say all that to say, like, when we think about whether or not Snape is a good member of the Order of the Phoenix, we, we. We've grappled with the moral ambiguity of it all. And, you know, whether or not you actually need to believe in the cause of the organization. But what many of you brought to bear here is like, what is the cause of the organization? Like, is Snape really that far outside of it? If he's outside of it at all? Right? Like, is it in Dumbledore we trust? Like, what is the thing? Because if that is it, then yes, Snape is probably the best member of the Order of the Phoenix. Like, what is the actual purpose of the Order of the Phoenix? Like, is it actually doing anything? Well, I, I'm not. I've not thought about this. But I'm also not convinced that it is. I don't think that it's. I think it feels very much not even like the Death Eaters because the Death Eaters are out here actually spreading hate, dissension, madness and absurdity. What is the Order doing? Waiting for Dumbledore to give answers. Like, I really do. The Order of the Phoenix feels to me, and this might be a hot take, but the Order of the Phoenix feels to me like busy work. So that all the adults who care about Harry, get out of the way. Even Snape. Like, even Snape, who is invested in Harry's safety for the purposes of, you know, being someone who is trying to make up for the past and make amends with Lily's. The specter of Lily. Even he is like, so to be clear, like you've just been raising him like a pig to slaughter. Like he's pissed cause he's like, so what have we been doing this whole time? Like, what was the purpose of all of this? And honestly, that's a great question, Severus. The next theme that we're going to be talking about is Half Blood identity and self definition. The Half Blood Prince title became a springboard for exploring the identity shame, pride and rebellion that we see exhibited by sn. Some of us offered really different readings, from private reclamation to a public defiance to internalized pain. Tamara wrote, the Half Blood identity is interesting to me for sure. Maybe it was a touch self deprecating or at least acknowledging how Half Bloods are viewed by his peers. But then he twisted it to take power and act defiantly against the stigma. Lorian wrote. Troff seems to cite this as evidence that Snape accepts his Half Blood status in a positive way. But could it be self punishment? He calls himself Half Blood First. Maybe that's him saying Lesser. There's a tinge of something negative there. Jazz wrote, loved the discussion about how the different possible parentage combinations and upbringing of Half Blood contribute to how they see them and carry themselves. Not something I thought about before Carmen wrote, the fact that pureblood lineages are constantly dying out plays a huge role in the acceptance of Half Bloods, since Snape can espouse that identity without much shame, because most living witches and wizards are Half Bloods already. And Nadia wrote, I always wondered what Lily's parents were like and how they treated Snape. Her home could have been a place of safety during the holidays, like the Burrow for Harry. Were his prejudices already too strong to allow that to happen? I think that there's something so fascinating about this because I think for many of us, and I'll speak for myself, you know when you read about the Half Blood Prince and you read the title he gives, my initial thought had always been like, oh, he did this because he wanted to be like Voldemort, right? Like Lord Voldemort. And so he picked a title, Prince. But then it's like, no, that's actually his mother's maiden name. And then I'm like, and you are a Death Eater. Why would you go and call yourself a half blood. And I think that there's something very intentional about that. And again, we don't, we do not know whether or not this was something that he just used and wrote in his journal, a la Tommy Rhdes, or if this was a title that he kind of used out in the open. But what we do know is that at least even in private, it seems like he wasn't necessarily ashamed of being a half blood. I think. Because I think the thing about Half Blood identity that also is true is that it still gives you something to hold onto, right? Like most of the half bloods that we meet are not maligned, they're not marginalized, they're just magical people, right? Like they get to be a run of the mill. And I think part of that is because to an earlier point, everyone is pretty much half blood at this point. Unless you are a dyed in the wool pure blood supremacist. I'm marrying my first cousin Vibe, then obviously not. So we're looking at the Malfoys, we're looking at the Blacks, we're looking at the Weasleys. But on average, most people, even if they don't claim it, are half blood. And so it's almost like a non entity. But in the circles that he runs in, in the context and spaces that he finds himself in, it feels almost like an act of resistance. Like not a reclamation per se, but to openly acknowledge, even if just to yourself. People lie to themselves all the time. I do. I know many of us do. Why, why hold on to this? Why name it? And I'm not convinced that this, that Half Blood was even a thing that was used against him. Because what we also know about Half Blood Identity, and just the, the blood purity hierarchy in general, is that talent pretty much absolves you of anything. It completely removes any sort of peace that makes you othered, right? Like we see this with the way that Hermione is treated even though she's Muggle, born with Lily, with Dumbledore, that even if you are not pureblood, if your power manifests in ways that people associate with pure bloodedness, right, which is exceptionalism, then you are forgiven. And we know that Snape was exceptional. We know that he was like Nerdy MC Nerdster and also just outrageously talented and good at magic. And so it almost seems unnecessary when his talent has made room for him in such a way that he doesn't necessarily need to lay heavy claim on the title of being half Blood. And yet he does. And Again, it's not clear to us when, where, High, when what, when, where or why. But it is interesting because it suggests that he is clinging to the things that make him him. Right. Being Half Blood is a meaningful part of his identity. His mother's name is the tie to the magical world. And this is such an interesting way. I love the play with words and I think maybe he was inspired by Lord Voldemort. It's possible, but to be able to pull it off and have so much more legitimacy than Voldemort as well. Right, because Voldemort one is hiding the fact that he is half Blood. But secondly the invocation of Lord doesn't make any sense. Again, we talked about this because there is no wizarding royalty, right? So there's no kind of hierarchical royal understanding of Lord. Right. Obviously everyone, they are all, they're still British so they understand it. Right? Like they, but within the society that matters, there's none of that. And so Lord Voldemort feels stupid in a lot of ways. I mean the Death Eaters give it a lot of reverence but like in the grand scheme of things it's dumb. Half Blood Prince though is all truths. He's not actually pulling anything. It's so clever. And so in that way it's interesting because even if he was inspired by Voldemort he is actually imbuing the title with much more truth than Voldemort is and is able to kind of accomplish a thing that Voldemort can't do. And he does it in a way that's like really cute. And I don't know y', all, I, I, I don't know what to make of him using this. Like I love the idea of it being like wishful thinking but I, and I also do think that there is a way that the usage of this name is absolutely erasure because I of of the Muggle aspect of his life, the non magical piece of his existence. And I think in that way he and Voldemort have that in common. Right? But they go about it in ways that feel so intentionally different because I don't think that Severus carries the same shame as Voldemort does. And I think that's due in large part to the fact that Severus's mom is a part of his life and cares for him in a way that Voldemort didn't experience with his mother. Which isn't to say that she didn't, but he didn't get to experience it. And So I, I think that, you know, when we look at the way that they title and what they call themselves, it stands out to me that part of the reason why this is the case is because of their own lived experiences. But I do think that they are doing similar things in terms of trying to get rid of their Muggle dads. Because daddy issues always what out every single time. But I think that what we see in the difference is Voldemort is completely jettisoning anything that keeps him away from being as kind of highly lauded as possible. And Severus is like, no, I acknowledge part, that part of myself with I can do it without acknowledging my dad. And there's something really poetic about that. And again, intentional, which feels very on brand for Snape. Even though he's not like a poet, there is a cleverness and an intentionality to the way that he operates that I think really makes sense here. And so thank you all for these comments. They really, they brought something new for me and I hope that they invite us to think about some things more deeply in the post episode chat. The next theme that we're going to get into before the reflection is going to be looking at Snape's trauma. What that trauma means for the prejudices that we think he had and the way that he kind of enters into this supremacist organization. Because many of us kind of looked at the trauma and tried to investigate what it means and not necessarily how it excuses his behavior, but how it helps us understand it. Right? How we understand his cruelty, how we understand the way that he kind of flirts with supremacy. Right? Because many of us try to find the nuances in between empathy for the pain he endured and accountability for the ideology that led him to make certain decisions. Right. Charlie wrote, the only grace I extend to Snape is that he was abused as a child and his abuser was a Muggle. Hurt people, hurt people. Which isn't an excuse, but it makes sense why he would. He went on to become a Death Eater and had anti Muggle ideologies. However, meeting Lily should have made him realize that not all Muggles are bad. Nikki wrote, Snape's anti Muggle sentiment was clear from a very young age, even before Hogwarts. It's probably part of the reason there's a break in Lily's and Petunia's relationship. Sarah Marie wrote, hate groups slurp up abuse. Male youth, yes, but there are a lot of folks who would choose loneliness over belonging within a hate group. There has to be some level of buy in to the ideology to land there. And Snape was in it until he realized his master wanted to kill his obsession. And Nadia wrote, could Snape have done more to save Lily and James? Did he really ever want to save anyone other than Lily? Even after he went to Dumbledore, did he ever feel remorse for James death? Ooh, I'm so excited. Okay, so I was thinking about this because I think that there is a way that we allow for Snape's trauma to explain his ideology and the belief that somehow he wasn't a pure blood supremacist. And I think that there is a way that we see multiple paths to navigating pure blood supremacist ideology within the wizarding world. Right? The first is we see that there are a lot of people who exist who have pure blood supremacist ideals. Cornelius Fudge is one of them. The vast majority of the wizarding world believes that they are better. Again, going back to the Hufflepuff episode we talked about early Ernie McMillan talking about the fact that his blood was pure and thus he should be excused, if you will, from the Basilisk's wrath or the, the wrath of the Heir of Slytherin, right? There are lots of pure blood people who believe that they are better and at the very least believe that they should be immune to things that affect non pure blood people. The Weasleys again are an example of this idea. They don't become Death Eaters. And then if we look within the ranks of Death Eaters we have Peter Pettigrew, who did not join the Death Eaters because of ideology. He joined because of power. And his role in this was not minimal per se. I mean, obviously he betrayed Lillian James, but like it wasn't the kind of thing that led him to be in the upper ranks for Voldemort. There's a way that you can be a Death Eater and be passive. Snape is not that he joins with gusto. And I think that we have to acknowledge that particular reality. I think we have to be okay with the fact that, that he definitely had these supremacist tendencies. And yes, they may be informed by his relationship with his father. They may be informed by the fact that he was lonely and looking for support. But I think that there is still space for us to think about what that means. Because at the end of the day, Snape made a choice and there were many, many, many choices available to him because not every Slytherin joined Death Eaters, right? Like he made a decision and he could have had community and he could have done all of those things. And he chose to go into this and like, was he radicalized? It's possible, but the seed had been planted already. I think he believed this. And again, it could be because of his father. I think that that's probably valid. However, simultaneously, concurrently. And there are a lot of people who experience all kinds of negative interactions with individuals and they do not allow those things to spiral them into supremacist ideology. They may be prejudiced, they may even discriminate, but supremacist behavior is a completely different domain. And I think we would be remiss to not acknowledge the role that Snape played in the Death Eaters and the intentionality about what he did. Slurs again, don't just pop out of people's mouths. He's used it before. And I think there was a comment, I can't remember who said it in the post episode chat, but it was about like the usage of the word gay and how like in the late 90s, early aughts it was used as like a negative thing. Like people would say like, oh, that's gay, right? And it was negative and then it obviously got reshaped and it kind of, that got shamed. Hilary Duff did an entire campaign which if you haven't found it, go onto the YouTube. Our young people go to YouTube and look up. I think it was like, don't say gay. But before it meant what it means now. And this was brought up in the post episode chat as a means by which to say like, oh, people can say negative words, I think. But when I read that, and I thought it was intriguing, but I think that what we have to remember is that at no point like the word mudblood is inherently a slurpee. It wasn't made to be one. Right? Like the word gay was socially constructed in that particular moment to mean a very specific thing. Mud blood is a slur and it was always a slur. And so like it wasn't a word that just existed and then all of a sudden, no, it was a word that was used to describe Muggle born people. And so in some ways it's that the comparison of using of gay in a negative context is apples and oranges to this word because it is a word. It is the magical version of the N word or the Essler. And I was doing. I was singing at an event and I was in a state below the Mason Dixon line. And that's important for the context of this. And I was talking to someone at the hotel bar and she just randomly dropped the f slur like casually, just like whatever. And I had a very visceral reaction. Cause I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, that's crazy that you just like said that out loud in the space to a person that you don't know. And it occurred to me in that moment and I thought about that comment in the post episode chat and I said and I thought to myself oh like you say this all the time, you say this all the time. And then this person turned around and was continuing the conversation and was like oh I love gay people. And I thought to myself what an interesting world that you live in that you are so comfortable just randomly using that word out in the world with people that you don't know. And it came out of your mouth with such fluency. There wasn't a stutter, there wasn't like oh, I don't know how this is going to be received. You just said it. And I think that there is a space for a lot of people where there are words that you say in the comfort and confines of your personal spaces and that sometimes this person had been drinking. Your brain does not know when to filter it and it just says it. I think that that's what happens a lot with Malfoy. Like he's intentional but you don't just get around, you don't go around saying that word just cause like you use it and he uses it a lot. So that when Snape calls Lilia Mudblood even out of anger, that is not a word that he just like conjured up and was like, I don't know, like that was in his lexicon. And I think we have to allow that to be true and acknowledge that for what it is. And so I think that when we think about Snape's relationship with Supremacy, maybe he was radicalized, may all of that could be true, but the reality is, is that there were multiple routes that he could have taken and he chose this one. There are multiple what you could have stayed. You could have been a supremacist in Slytherin and not become a Death Eater. You could have become a Death Eater and not become like Voldemort's right hand man. There is a way that the buy in is specific and, and this is a point, and then I'll shut up about this that many people keep bringing up, right? Which is if Voldemort had chosen Neville Snape would not have left the ranks of the Death Eaters. Which reifies to many of us that this was an ideological belief structure that led you to join this order in the first place and that you would have stayed had the person that you had very strong feelings for not been the target of your boss's world domination scheme. If Lily had not been Voldemort's target, Severus Snape would have remained a Death Eater. He would not have gone become a double agent. He wouldn't have done any of that. And we have to ask ourselves the important question. Why would he have stayed if he didn't believe in the mission and the cause of what the Death Eaters were putting out into the world? Why? Sam, we have now reached the point in the episode where I am going to reflect. One of the things that's been sitting with me after this episode and really reading through your comments is the idea of what it means to shut your mind in order to survive. One of the big things that I work on a lot in therapy is like feeling the feelings and not just like over intellectualizing them for the sake of being able to kind of move through them in ways that don't feel like they are affecting me. Right? And my therapist will always be like, so how did you feel about that? And I'll be like, oh, well. And I'll just start pontificating and postulating and all the things. And he will say, no, no, how did you feel about that? Like, let's talk about emotions. And I think that that has been a very hard thing for me to do as a person who loves to over intellectualize, hence this podcast. And I think we spend so much time talking about Snape's duplicity, about his double life, about his double loyalties and how that duplicity made him indispensable to Dumbledore and the Order and even in some ways to Voldemort and to the story itself. But what we don't talk about enough is what it cost him, what it meant to live that way. Because yes, Snape's duplicity had utility for Dumbledore and all of these other people, the Order of Voldemort. But it also had utility for Snape. It allowed him to live in the in between. He never had to pick a side, and not just like a political side, but an emotional one. He could remember Lily and still hate Harry. He could despise Voldemort for killing her and cling to the same supremacist ideologies that made Voldemort possible. He could hate James and Sirius and Lupin and still define himself by the very traumas that they caused. He didn't have to let go. The double agent role let him keep it all in that way, it gave him something that looked a lot like safety. Because as long as he was performing both sides, he didn't have to decide who he was. He didn't have to forgive anyone. He didn't have to grow. He could live indefinitely in the middle that murky space between pain and purpose. And he could convince himself that it was power. And that's the gift and the curse of liminality. You get to belong everywhere and nowhere at once. And that's where Occlumency comes in. Occlumency is supposed to be a skill, a kind of magical discipline. The ability to protect your thoughts and feelings from invasion. But for Snape, it's not just a skill. It's a coping mechanism. It's survival. He has to master it to stay alive under Voldemort. Because if Voldemort can read your mind, you can't afford to feel anything. You can't afford grief or guilt or tenderness or love. Because any one of those things could betray you. So what does Snape do? He learns to compartmentalize. To wall off his emotions so completely that they become unreachable, even to himself. And yes, that makes him an extraordinary spy. But it also makes him a man frozen in time. When you spend so many years learning not to feel, you don't just protect yourself from pain, you block yourself from growth. I'm going to say that one more time. Not for you. This isn't an attack on you, but for me. When you spend years learning not to feel, you don't just protect yourself from pain, you block yourself from growth. Because you can't metabolize your grief if you've locked it all behind a wall. You can't develop coping mechanisms when your entire coping mechanism is not feeling. And that's what we see in him. A man who is both brilliant and emotionally static, arrested in the very pain that he pretends doesn't exist. Occlamancy doesn't just teach him silence. It teaches him denial. It teaches him to survive without evolving. And I think that's part of why Hogwarts is such a dangerous place for him. Because it's the only space where he doesn't have to occlude. Voldemort's not there. Dumbledore knows his secret. It's the one place he can afford to let his guard down. And he does, in the worst way. The rage, the bitterness, the resentment, all of that comes pouring out in the classroom onto people least equipped to bear it. Because for Snape, cruelty becomes release. It's not excusable, it's not noble but it is truthful. It's the only emotional truth he has left. And that's the paradox of Occlumency. It's the magic that keeps you alive by keeping you numb. It rewards repression. It trains you to confuse silence with strength. But emotional vacancy isn't strength. It's stasis. Emotional vacancy isn't strength. It's stasis. When I think about Snape, I think about that stasis, that suspended animation he lives in. That arrested development that we often associate with Sirius is there for Snape too, but in a different form. Sirius survives Azkaban by transforming into an animal. By literally shedding the parts of him that dementors can't touch. He becomes something simpler, less human. And that simplicity protects him in many ways. I think Snape does the exact same thing, just psychologically. Occlumency becomes his Animagus form. It's the thing that keeps the dementors of his own mind his guilt, his grief, his regret from consuming him. It's what lets him function. But it also means he can never leave the cage. When you've built your survival around silence growth feels like danger. And vulnerability feels like exposure. And healing feels like betrayal. Like letting go of the very pain that has kept you alive. That has been the engine that keeps you going. And that's what's so devastating about Snape to me. But the very thing that makes him powerful is also the very thing that keeps him broken. His usefulness to Dumbledore depends on his emotional vacancy. His effectiveness as a double agent requires his stagnancy as a person. Because Dumbledore doesn't just need a spy. He needs someone who won't crumble under the weight of what he's asked to do. He needs someone who can lock every emotion away and never open the door. He needs someone who is willing to damage his soul in the name of loyalty. And Snape is perfect for that. Not because he's brave but because he's practiced at not feeling. And that's what I find both tragic and brilliant about him. All of the genius and all of the cunning and all of the discipline. And he never learns how to feel without fear. He never learns how to be whole. He dies the way he lives. Occluded, guarded. Half alive in all of his contradictions. And that's where I want to bring in something I came across recently. Something I saw on Instagram. That stopped me in my tracks as I was preparing for this episode. It said, healing is so hard because it is a constant battle between your inner child, who is scared and just wants safety, your inner teenager, who is angry and just wants justice, and your current self, who is tired and just wants peace. And when I read that, I sat there for a second, because that is Severus Snape. That's the whole man in three lines. His inner child, that little boy at the spinners in who just want safety, who wants the shouting to stop. He wants to be left alone in a quiet room where nothing breaks and no one yells. His inner teenager is still furious. The boy who felt humiliated and rejected and powerless, who called Lily a slur because anger was easier than shame. That version of Snape wants justice, maybe vengeance, anything that feels like control. And then there's the adult version. The man who's exhausted, whose life has become one long exercise in endurance, who doesn't really want revenge anymore, who just wants it all to stop, who just wants to know peace. But here's the unfortunate reality. He can never have peace. Not because the world won't give it to him, but because he won't give it to himself. He can't get peace because he's not accepting how he feels or what any of it means for him. You cannot grow from what you don't accept, and you can't accept what you don't acknowledge. And Snape never acknowledges it. He never names what happened to him. He never names what he did. He never names how much of his life was spent running from his own reflection. Hucklemann said, teaches him how to hide, not how to heal. It keeps the inner child hidden, the teenager raging and the adult numb. All of them trapped in the same locked room, none of them brave enough to turn the key. And healing, real healing, would require integration. It would require him to open the door, to let those parts meet, to forgive, to feel, to grow. But he never does. He just keeps performing. He keeps surviving. He keeps teaching other people's children while never rescuing the ones still trapped inside. And that is the tragedy of Severus Snape. He's a man split between safety, justice and peace, and never brave enough to choose any of them. Because it's easier to be useful than to be whole. It's easier to perform survival than to risk healing. And it's easier to keep your mind closed than to face what's still screaming behind it. That's Nate, the master of the closed mind. And the prisoner of it, too. This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you liked today's episode, first of all, thank you. Please feel free to like, rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does where pods are cast, y'. All. I was not actually ready for that reflection. It felt like a personal attack. And if you felt attacked, know that you are not alone and we are in community in being attacked. Okay. I've never felt more connected to Severus saving my life and I don't like the feeling. If you want to join us on Patreon for the post episode chat, please feel free to do so@patreon.com Criticalmagic theory if you want to follow me on social media, please feel free to do so at Prof. J.W. on Tik Tok and Prof. W. No, no, Prof. J.W. on Instagram. Prof. W on Tik Tok. Check out our website, criticalmagic theory.com y'. All. We have one more set of Severus Snape episodes. The next one's going to be crazy, but I can't wait to talk to you in the post episode chat. Until then, be critical and say magical, my friends. Bye.