Professor Julian Womble (0:01)

Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the Wizarding world of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Julian Womble and this is our Prof. Response episode on Ruby as Hagrid, y' all. I say it every Prof. Response episode, but it always bears repeating. You all really brought it. And I think I loved this episode a lot because it's one of those episodes and Hagrid is one of those characters where we all have a lot of feelings about, but we also didn't know necessarily all the feelings that we had or all the things that we believed. And I feel very gratified. Am I patting myself on the back? Maybe I am, but that's not your business because many of you in your responses in the post episode chat, highlighted the fact that there were things that you had not thought about as it pertained to Hagrid. And all of a sudden you were thinking about something new. And I love that because that's the point of the podcast and that's why we do what we do here. And so, as you all know, this episode we're going to be diving right into Hagrid and there are a couple of themes that came up across all of your responses and I can't wait to dive into them because I think that they will help us go even deeper with regard to Hagrid. And so you know what it is that we have to do first, you've been stretching. This whole time you've been getting ready for this because you know full well what is to come. And if you weren't getting ready, you've got three, you've got two, you've got one. Let's pop. We need to talk about Harry Potter. As always, I hope you danced, y' all. We're diving right in. So the first thing that came up in the post episode chat, which I really think is interesting, is this very, very important conversation about Hagrid as a teacher, as an adult, and how those two things come together. Though Hagrid's love for the trio is rarely in question, the conversation that we had reveals how his lack of boundaries, emotional arrested development, and the structural failures around him culminate in one particularly uncomfortable truth, which is that he should not have been a teacher. The heartbreak is not that he failed on purpose, but that he was set up to fail by a system that never really supported his growth and a leader, Dumbledore, who mistook loyalty for qualification. His deep emotional wounds, abandonment, ostracization, trauma bleed into his pedagogy, which results in a complicated man who loves fiercely but who lacks the tools and the guidance and the accountability to teach responsibly. SARAH H. It does give like crazy, Granddad. Sometimes good for a life lesson, and sometimes just in situations where it's like chaos. I don't really know, given that they aren't related. The whole drunk in front of kids in their school environment is very strange. Yes, it is very strange. And I want to spend a little time talking about that because some of us brought up, you know, drinking in front of students, you know, depending on where you are in the world and the drinking age. But I think that there's a difference between having a casual glass of something and being, like, drunk to the point where you have to dunk your head into a basin full of water to sober yourself up. I think that that is a problem, and I think what else is an issue outside of the drinking is the fact that Hagrid actually has the trio kind of as his emotional anchors. Like, they are the ones who have to come and be there for him in ways that are kind of misaligned given the age gap. And I know that there's probably someone saying, but he also was there for them. They are children. He is an adult. The nature of their relationship is meant to be that he is not supposed to be leaning on them heavily. I mean, I think there are a couple of moments where, like, you know, he hugs Harry and Harry's knees buckle because he's so heavy. I think that that could a physical manifestation of the emotional labor that Hagrid has the students doing. The students being the golden trio. Right. Nadia wrote Hagrid absolutely lacked boundaries. Ding, ding, ding. But who teaches us to set boundaries? Ah, no, no, I'm not. I didn't put the emphasis on the right syllable. But who teaches us to set boundaries and hold boundaries as we grow up? Parents, adults, teachers, people in positions of authority. Hagrid had none of that. His mother abandoned him. His father died before he was a teenager. This is a really, really important point as well, right? Like, you can't do things you've never seen before. You can't be expected to behave and have the tools that were never given to you. And I think that Hagrid is a prime example of how socialization has the ability to turn you into someone that likes. Doesn't necessarily. Isn't as equipped as we would hope they would be to do the things that they are called upon to do. And I think that, again, this is one of those kind of institutional failures on the part of Dumbledore, really. I know he's not an institution, but he runs it because it's like you have to recognize whether or not this person has the capacity and the capability to do the things that are being requested of them. And the reality of the situation is Hagrid simply does not. And I don't think that that is any fault of his own. It's just a reality of his existence that he does not have the lessons. And what he does have through his socialization, his brief time as a kind of fully incorporated magical person is trauma. And even before that, he had this very deep seated passion for creatures that were dangerous, that had been kind of shunned by individuals and, you know, governmental structures. And that is beautiful. That is not grounds for him to teach students. I mean, there's a way in which you might be able to do an offshoot of a course that's kind of a more special topics, if you will, on like creatures that people believe are dangerous. And maybe Hagrid could have taught that right? Because now we're walking in with a full understanding of what we're getting ourselves into. And he knows those creatures and students are fully informed about walking in and he can speak to something that he has an expertise in and he can bring his passion and maybe someone could help him kind of cultivate this class in a meaningful way. Maybe he teaches. He co teaches it with grubbly plank, right? Like there are ways that this could have happened. But throwing him in head first is simply not the right move. Particularly when he has not been given the tools to be able to do this effectively. Will Bishop wrote he is a grown man with superhuman strength and yet uses two first years as runners in his illegal dragon smuggling operation. They got punished severely and Hagrid Never goes to McGonagall or Dumbledore to admit fault. How irresponsible can you get, y' all? I've already said this in the episode. This is a thing that I cannot abide by. I'm so sorry. It is insane to me that under normal circumstances, in any other context, like an adult person would have gone and taken responsibility for that. And Hagrid never did because he probably didn't want to get in trouble. And I know that some of us will say that's the byproduct of his arrested development. And maybe so, but I'm also reminded of a moment in Chamber of Secrets where they thought that Harry was the one who had led to the Petrification I think of Justin Finch, Fletchley and Hagrid ran in covered in chicken feathers to defend Harry tooth and nail, to make sure that everyone knew that it was not Harry that had done this. So that means that Hagrid has the capacity to go in and defend people that he cares about when the time is right. The fact that he did not do it in their first year tells me that he knew what he had done was wrong and he did not want to get in trouble. And that irks me. And I will hold that against him for the foreseeable future. And I will not apologize for doing so. I simply will, will not apologize. Because what do you mean? You sent these kids to go and do this thing and now all of a sudden, like, you sent Harry and Hermione. And then it's so ironic because then later on, I think in the very same book, he's like, you shouldn't be out of bed, dude. It's the irregularity of rule enforcement. And again, which is, I think it highlights the reality that Hagrid, he's not a teacher. He is someone who operates from a very different space. His relationship with the Golden Trio is not one that I think is even remotely appropriate. If for nothing else, the way that he invites them to break the rules for him and then does not stand up for them when they get caught, as if it was their responsibility to keep it a secret. Like, let's be clear. And sure, we could say that Harry and Hermione and Ron, even though he couldn't go, volunteered for this. But the reality of the situation is also that Hagrid is a 60 something year old man and he let them do it. And that is the truth. He let them do it. As opposed to going and taking care of this himself because he wasn't in the emotional position to let go of Norbert slash Norberta. Y' all, I'm so sorry, but we have to call a spade a spade. Okay? Jaz wrote, teaching is so much more than knowing your field, none of which Hagrid knows or does or is good at. Haggard could have been a great TA or guest speaker alongside someone like Grubbly Plank, but as an actual and only teacher of the entire subject, he just wasn't good. And I think that's it. Hagrid knows what Hagrid knows, but knowing something does not mean you are a good teacher. One of the things that I learned when I was in graduate school was, was, you know, there are a lot of people who are really good at math. Really good at math, particularly statistics. Like, they just understand the intuition behind it. To be clear, I am not one of those people. Statistics is not my bag. I've never been good at it. I'm good at it. I'm good at interpreting it, but I am not good at. You want me to sit down and do it by hand? Derivatives in this economy? Absolutely not. I can't. I don't have it. I don't have it. And there are some people who are really good at it. But what you realize is that most of the people, not all, most, a good chunk of them who are really good at it are bad at teaching it for the people for whom it comes in. Like, it becomes so naturally that they just get it. Their brains just go to that place. They're not good at teaching it. And I feel like that's one of the pitfalls of expertise, is that there's a presumption that your ability to do a thing means that you can teach a thing. And I think this adage, it goes back to the adage that we kind of talked about a little bit before about, you know, they say that, you know, those who can do and those who can't, teach. Here's the gag. No, no, no. Because a lot of people who can don't. And then they try to teach and they can't. You see what I'm saying? Like, it is one of those things where I think Hagrid does know about creatures. He's does spend his time caring about them and caring for them. That does not mean he's good at what he does in terms of instructing students as to what they need to know about these things. And I also. And I'll end here, I think that, you know, many of us brought up the notion of, like, is there a curriculum at Hogwarts to begin with? Unclear. There are textbooks, but there doesn't. It's not clear what anyone is meant to be walking out with. I talked about this in the bonus episode that I did for the deep divers and chronic overthinkers on Hogwarts as an institution and what it's teaching students. But I think that this is a really important thing for us to think about when it comes to what instructions Haggard might have gotten, if any, to teach students and what it is that he believed was his job. And you can't do your job if no one tells you what the job is. And if the job is just to show up and teach, well, then, you know, you are up a creek without a paddle because there's no way that you can effectively do that, even if you have some sense of what it is that you're meant to do. And there's certainly no way that you can do that if you don't know what to do and you haven't been given the tools to be able to do something, even if you have some semblance of an idea of what it is that you've been required to do. One of the favorite things for me that came out of this episode was this conversation surrounding marginalization and identity prejudice. Because Hagrid's story is a story of someone who is living in secret but still on the margins. He's a half giant in a world obsessed with bloodlines, obsessed with where you come from, obsessed with parentage. A man whose size difference in background made him feared and othered even before it became public knowledge of what and who he was. And yet he survived, right? What surfaced in your responses in the post episode chat was this kind of deep resonance with Hagrid's marginalization and the real world experiences of those who don't feel seen, who feel misjudged, and who are denied at the systemic level and at the individual level, their full humanity and ability to kind of work and play without fear. Fear. Whether viewed through the lens of race, disability, queerness or class, Hagrid becomes a mirror for how societies decide who is worthy and what it costs to challenge that. And I think it's one of the more beautiful things. And this is why y' all, I'm so grateful for this podcast and for you all, because I think that this is one of those things that I had never even thought about, like what Hagrid represents, you know, just in general as a character. And I think that it's such a beautiful thing and I'm so glad that it resonated with you as well, that there are a lot of things about Haggard that feel very familiar for any number of reasons. Aiden wrote, Haggard's years of hiding who he was is tragic. Not being able to say it out loud for so long, how exhausting that would feel. You related it to being light skinned or passable black person, or to being queer. How brave it is to live a life that isn't always accepted or tolerated. And not only that, I is a really great point. But the other reality is, is that now, once you've been exposed, you are now combating all of the stereotypes that you know exist. And now people are going to be looking at you so drastically differently, as if you've completely altered who you are when the reality is is that this is who you've always been. Right? And we know that this is who this is. We know this is true for Hagrid, right? When Ra and I, you know, I know that Ron is 14 and that he has a lot of internalized prejudice. But it is really stark and striking to me that when Ron finds out about Hagrid's parentage and you know, that Hagrid is half giant he immediately reverts to a place as if he hasn't been spending such a considerable amount of time with this person, as if he hasn't been helping him, as if he hasn't been riding and dying for Hagrid since day one. And I think that that is the thing about, you know, Hagrid's character arc. And I think also something that is very relatable, which is that Hagrid has always been Hagrid. The information that was given does not change who Hagrid is as a person but it alters the way that individuals, even his closest friends, if that's what we will call the Golden Trio, which many of you have. And so we're going to go with it. Even your closest friends are seeing you differently because of this. As if you are not the exact same person that you've always been. Been. And I think that that is a really fascinating thing that resonates on a number of dimensions. No matter kind of what is what identity space you or someone you know is occupying. Right? Amanda wrote, he is a beautiful human giant that has been discriminated against because of his disability, quote unquote, and or lineage. I always read Hagrid as neurodivergent and. And I love that he loves beasts that aren't seen as lovable. That means a lot to me. I think that this is the beautiful thing about Hagrid is that again, he could easily have turned into an Argus filch and would have had so many good reasons to do that. Right? To be someone who is completely and utterly jaded, who is angry at the way that he was treated by the wizarding world, who operates from a space of. You all took my life away from me and now I'm staying in the space. But I am not pleased about my plight. I'm not pleased about how I've ended up here. And instead what you get is someone who is filled with compassion, filled with love and filled with a level of empathy and understanding that is actually, interestingly enough, right? We talk a lot about his own emotional stagnation and the Arrested development. But the way that Hagrid is able to see the beauty in creatures that no one else can see and feels compelled to raise them and care for them is a clear indication that his emotional intelligence may manifest in some spaces and not in others. Because none of the other magical people in his orbit are as caring as he is when it comes to these creatures. They're afraid, and they would sooner kill an Aragog than try to take care of them. Now, I'm not condoning, and I want to be very clear about this, because I know how we feel about the Aragog of it all, but I'm not condoning the fact that he brought that big old spider into a school full of children and was hiding him in some closet someplace. I'm also not condoning him taking said spider and moving him into a space that was not even relegated for him to do so, and basically having to move the creatures that lived in that space out and. Or subject to being killed. Because now we have a ton of Acromantula just running around this space. Because, you know, if spiders are going to do anything, they're going to make babies. I'm not condoning any of that, but I am saying that it takes a very particular kind of person with a very particular kind of emotional understanding and willingness to go in and care for creatures like Aragog, to care for creatures like Fluffy, to care for dragons and all of these creatures that are seen as scary and problematic. And for him to have the wherewithal to be able to say, you deserve to live, you deserve to be appreciated. And I'm going to do that, even if no one else will. And so I think that, you know, Amanda's point about Hagrid as this kind of beautiful person, despite being discriminated against, is what makes Hagrid Hagrid. And I think that that's kind of one of the invisible beauties of Hagrid. Outside of his love for Harry, is his love for everyone in the face of all that he has experienced and all that he has had to navigate as a person who lives in this massive body, who is completely and utterly maligned once it's exposed who he is and who recognizes that he has to combat these stereotypes every single day, even if people don't know the truth of who he is. And Nadia wrote, of course Fudge knew Hagrid was half giant. I assume wizard folks still have birth certificates and the Ministry of Magic keeps those records. In such a crazy, hierarchical and also small society, there's no way he wouldn't know. This is really important, right? Because we know that there's such. I mean, the obsession with bloodlines is so fascinating because it means that there has to be a lot of documentation. And what we also know in Deathly Hallows is that a lot of people were pulling out those family trees. I mean, Sirius Black had an entire tapestry up in his house, right? Like having that lineage matters. And again, one of the first conversations that students have when they arrived at Hogwarts in Harry's first year was their parentage, right? The me mom's a Muggle, me dad's a witch, right? Like that entire thing, that's the first convo that they have when they sit down. It's one of the first questions that Harry asks Ron when he sees him. And it's one of the first things that Draco asks Harry in Madame Malkins when he's in Diagon Alley, right? The idea of these individual, these kids caring about identity and where you come from is ingrained in them. So much so that it's the first thing that comes out of their mouth, no matter where they are, whether they're pureblood, half blood, Muggle born, it's the first thing. And so it is fascinating because it means that Hagrid entered into this space having to have already created some level of a narrative about who he was. And so it re emphasizes this notion that Nadia introduces to us, but not even in the kind of political sense, but rather in the more social sense that Hagrid is walking in as this big child, massive, right, and is having to explain who he is and where he came from. And so everyone is probably having thoughts about how he arrives, looking the way that he does and still in the face of all of that, because everyone was calling Haggard stupid before they knew they might have had assumptions. So he's also navigating that as well, you know, and he just had to deal with so much. And I think that the idea that he still has the capacity to be able to be someone who has the awareness and appreciation for life and individuals, even those who, you know, might malign him or think he's stupid or an oaf, I think is so. It's such an amazing characteristic that Hagrid has. And I think I hadn't thought about it till the episode, but I think the juxtaposition of him and Filch is a really important one because it shows us who he could have become. And I would not have faulted him if he had become that person. I think I would have Absolutely understood how it is that he arrived there and why it is that he is someone who's so upset. Filch is mad because Filch can't do magic. Hagrid can do magic and they snapped his wand at 13 years old for a crime he did not commit. The level of injustice like Hagrid easily could have become some vigilante person and maybe not in the name of like a Voldemort or whatever, but like he's super strong, impervious to a lot of spells, like he could have done some real damage. And he didn't. He did not. And I think that that speaks volumes about who Hagrid is. And some of us may say yeah. And it's also speaking to the like conditioning that he experienced probably from Dumbledore. I won't try to fight you on that. But I think that Hagrid is not a blank canvas. Like he walked in with a level of compassion that makes it so that he can be exploited. If that's what we want to call what Dumbledore did and does to him, that's a different conversation for a different day. Also, I just want to point out the fact that I was talking to the Chronic Overthinkers and we were talking about whether or not we should do. I have it listed and slated right now to do two episodes for Dumbledore, two episodes for Snape. There was a discussion about whether or not we needed to up those numbers because of the madness, absurdity and foolishness that I know you all are gonna bring. The chaos of it all sound off in the post episode chat. Let me know what you think I'm open to. Makes my life a little bit easier and also allows for us to really, really, really get into the weeds on those characters when we get there. Okay, that's just a side note because my brain went there and I didn't want to forget. Also though, think about it. Let me know what you think either way. Hagrid being this beautiful big person is what makes him incredible. But it also means that he is easily manipulated because he's very trusting in a way that he should not be. He shouldn't be as trusting as he is. And I want him to not be that trusting because you are in a system that has betrayed you on every single level and was willing to do it again in order to save face. You need to start asking hard hitting questions. Hagrid, I want you to want more for yourself and I want you to not believe authority because they don't deserve it. We just did all that lovey dovey stuff about Hagrid and how amazing he is, and it's true, there is truth to what I have said. Because if not, well, then that would have been a long section of just lies. And it wasn't. I promise it wasn't. But now we're going to the flip side, because I think one else is such a fascinating part of Hagrid's character and his identity is not only what he puts out into the world in terms of his love, compassion, care and empathy, but also how his own internalized prejudice manifests and how it is the byproduct of someone who wants to be able to pass as a fully full person wizard, a non half giant wizard, if you will. And so we see a lot of the biases and a lot of the prejudice that exist in him as a result of this, right? He's not immune to contradiction and he is dismissive of certain people, like the centaurs and their sovereignty over the Forbidden Forest. He's loving, but he can sometimes be very cruel. Sometimes he advocates for these creatures and then sometimes he's harsh to them. And when he doesn't get his way, he gets very upset. As if bringing your half brother to the Forbidden Forest and leaving him there tethered to a tree is something that the centaur should just allow. You know, this paradox really unsettled many of you and I'm glad you know that. I love chaos and I also love thinking. I said on a podcast the other day, and I think I'll post the episode in the Patreon, it's called the Messy Liberation podcast. But I said the other day that I would rather overthink characters like Hagrid and others that we've been talking about. Overthinking an experience I had a decade ago that sends me on a spiral because I said something that I now think is very stupid and I feel cringed. And so anyways, I'm glad that we are all on this overthinking journey together. He is a person though, and he isn't a tidy lesson in, you know, what it means to be, you know, a good person. He is someone who has a lot of things going on and is so deeply shaped by the trauma that he experiences. And I think that sometimes we forget how traumatic his life was because he is such a genuine good person. Charlie wrote he is harsh and mean to some of others, like squibs and centaurs. I wonder if it's misdirected anger, pain inflicted on him by the oppressors. Hurt people. Hurt people. That seems like a lot of conflicting belief given the rest of his character. I agree with the conflict. But I also think that there is a way that you cannot always hide your true nature. Like, there are aspects of Hagrid. And I think Hagrid's true nature is someone who is very compassionate and caring and wants the best for the people who he loves. But I also think that. And so I think that, you know, part of the performance of being someone who does not want to be scrutinized as what he is means that he then has to kind of go full tilt in his prejudice. And really. And also I think he believes it. And I think that as someone who was maligned and who was kind of set apart by the government, there are ways that you still have to convince yourself that you belong. You don't have that wand anymore, which basically means that for all intents and purposes, you do not have space in the magical world. And so that umbrella is his lifeline. And I think that another way for Hagrid to feel like he belongs in the space is by asserting himself as a magical person over creatures and people who don't have access to this. Because. And so I think that some of this is an overcompensation. Some of it is a misdirected anger, but I think some of it is also a show. Some of it is a performance. It's theatrics, it's histrionics that I think has become part of who he is. Because I think when I can't assert myself by using magic, I'll assert myself by using magical prejudices. I'll say that one more time. When I can't assert myself by using magic, I will assert myself by using magical prejudices. If I can't prove to you that I belong by having this wood, this piece of wood that takes my magic and puts it out into the world, then I will show you that I belong by doing exactly what everyone else is doing. And again, we see that when we look at other characters, particularly Hermione and the things that she says and does over time. And we recognize that there is a socialization about what it means to be a magical person and what outlook you are meant to have. Savannah wrote, he needs all the licks for populating the Forbidden Forest with invasive species. What else did he put in there besides the spiders? He essentially is a breeder. Unethically, we cannot ignore the impact versus the intent, whatever it was. Here we go again. We are back to the belief of ownership. Like you think that the Forbidden Forest is yours to do with what you will, Hagrid. Because not only we're talking about the Acromantula, we are talking about, I'm stuck on grop, y' all. I'm stuck on grop because you really said, let me bring my, what, like 16 foot, 17 foot, 20 foot brother and leave him here while I go teach, while I go do my job. And then to turn around and be like, well, I might get fired. So, you know, Harry, Ron and Hermione take, take care of him. Sir, if you don't take your brother and get out of here. Have you lost your mind? This space does not belong to you. But it's not just Haggard that behaves that way, right? It's also Hogwarts as an institution. They literally condoned doing detention in the Forbidden Forest. The Forbidden Forest does not belong to them. The Forbidden Forest was given to the Centaurs by the Ministry of Magic. So the idea then that because it's next to the school means it belongs to the school is crazy. So many things go down in the Forbidden Forest that shouldn't. And so Hagrid's belief of possession and ownership of the space is absolutely just a microcosm of the larger structural understanding of who that space belongs to. And the truth is, is that no one believes it belongs to the centaurs, who it actually does belong to. And when the centaurs try to assert themselves as the controllers of the space, Hagrid gets mad, right? And it's like, you don't own this. And so I think, again, to Savannah's point, yes, he does deserve every lick for populating the Forbidden Forest with creatures who have no business being there. But I also think that his doing so is really another space where he is asserting himself as a magical person who is better than the creatures that live in the space. And it's also fascinating because one of the things about Hermione's House elf crusade and when we get to Hermione, we will spend some time on this. But one of the things that really gets me is that there's a moment in Goblet of Fire where Hermione where Ron brings up goblins and he makes a joke about, like, Spug. And Hermione says goblins don't need our help because they are not helpless. Like, they are not helpless. Basically. That's not an exact quote, but she says something along those lines. And the reality is, like, house elves aren't helpless either. But she only wants to help creatures who she believes are less than her and need her help. And house elves are not those creatures, but they look it. And in that same way I think that Hagrid is one of these people who like and I know that that Hermione criticism is going to cost me in the post episode chat. Bring it. It's fine, do your worst. But it also makes me think of Hagrid and how Hagrid only really has an affinity for creatures that are super dangerous and really has no full on appreciation for, for centaurs. If you are not like a dangerous creature who cannot assert your autonomy, if there's a level of dependency that you have on Hagrid, then he is, then you're his kind of creature. You're his kind of. Yeah, you're his kind versus like centaurs who are humanoid, can think, can assert themselves. And Hagrid's like, I never liked you. I never liked you at all. I don't like it when you won't let me do what I want. And he can't assert his will over them. And there's something to be said about that. There's something to be said about the creatures that he chooses to align himself with as a caretaker and the creatures that we then ultimately see him standing up against and pushing back against because they are not dependent on him. And what does that tell us about the way that Hagrid's minds work? Right. I think, you know, he wants to be a caretaker and I think when you tell him that you don't need him to take care of you, he gets mad and everything kind of takes a turn. And I think that that's worth considering when we think about who Hagrid is as a character. Bear wrote this episode really puts into context that the giants allied themselves with Voldemort because he promised them status in society and then they really sent Hagrid out there to negotiate peace in exchange for upholding the status quo. Let's talk about it. Because again, it strikes me this is another example of a way in which Hagrid is a tool of the structure that raised him. Because the irony that Bear introduces was absolutely lost on Hagrid. Right. Like Hagrid did not necessarily see, because when you couch things in terms of good and bad and the good is the status quo that led to the eradication of most of the giants in Britain. And you don't recognize that as a problem because you have internalized the truth about giants or a truth about giants. You have internalized the structurally conceived truth about giants that they are dangerous, that they don't deserve to be in society, that they are problematic. And you have internalized that as a part giant person. And then you are going to them and saying, we want to keep things the same, so don't listen to these people. Like that is another instance where we're able to see Hagrid's internalized. Well, yeah, we can call it prejudice. His internalized prejudice manifests here. And I think that this is such a really great, a great thing to think about. And I really enjoy these three quotes because they all speak to different kinds of internalized understanding. Charlie speaks to his internalized understanding of other people and other creatures. Savannah speaks to his internalized understanding of ownership. And Baers speaks to his internalized understanding of the population from which he is actually a part and what he understands as good. Right. Like all of the things that were leveraged against him in those, you know, letters and things he got after Rita Skeeter's article came out, he is internal. He is using that same logic in going and talking to the giants. And that is something that I think we should talk about in the post episode chat because I think that one thing about internalized belief structures is that they're really hard to see when you are not trying. And especially when you're couching these things in terms of good and evil, when you're couching them in terms of this is the right way. I think that there are many ways in which some of us, right, we talked, some of us talked about this, some of us, not all of us, I want to be clear, talked about this when we talked about Umbridge, right, And our own internalized beliefs and the things that we had to kind of navigate and try to deal with. And I think that, you know, it is very difficult because there we're talking decades and decades and decades of socialization in various subtle ways. I mean, and the truth is, y' all, I hate to be the one to tell you, but these books play a part in some of that, right? These books offer us a lot of really problematic things left and right that we rejoice and celebrate. And sometimes I look back and I'm like, yikes, that's really bad. Like, I know we don't like Dudley, but Haggard putting a tail on Dudley a problem because we are talking about a non qualified wizard person trying to turn him into a pig and only thankfully managing to give him a pigtail, which is still horrific and traumatizing. And Dudley had done nothing other than eat Harry's cake, which obviously makes Sense because they were being starved because Uncle Vernon was. Listen, it's a problem. And again, that is an example of Hagrid's internalized understanding of non magical people and what you as a magical person can do. And we sat there as children, some of us as adults, and laughed and said, good, that's what he deserves. We did. We did. And if you are one of those people who's like, I always knew that it was bad, well, good for you. Okay? I thought it was amazing when I was younger, and that's called growth, because I've learned my lesson. Okay? We all can't be perfect friends. So maybe it was just me. Wow, the way that the tables have turned. Look what you all have done. What was I saying? Ah, yes. I think it's important for us to realize the kind of the way that these internalized ideologies can manifest inside of us and we just don't know and we don't recognize them. And I think Hagrid is a really prime example of that. Despite being someone who has experienced a lot of discrimination, he is still someone who is willing to discriminate against other people on the grounds that, like, he is a full wizard person and he has the same prejudices as that have been leveraged against him. And isn't that something? The last thing that I want to talk about that I really am excited that we have a moment to spend some time on, is our conversation surrounding whether or not Hagrid is a hero. And I think that, like some of the other characters that we've talked about thus far, Hagrid introduces us to a big question about, you know, what does it mean to be a hero? And how is it that we understand the kind of what heroism is? And we all have our different definitions and we all leverage them in different ways because, you know, we love to believe in an uncomplicated hero. Someone who figures how to embody just virtue, loyalty, goodness, with, like, no contradiction, no complication, no, like, moral ambiguity. But we also know that, like, as adults, that particular reality is stripped away from us very quickly when we think about some of our favorite characters in this book and in others. Right? And what emerges in this conversation around Hagrid's heroism is that his messiness is really tangled up in his heroism. His failures don't erase his courage, but they make us realize how human he is. And through his bravery, his loyalty, and his emotional vulnerability, Hagrid becomes a hero in spite of his imperfection. But he also chooses to love and protect others, even when the world has not loved and protected him. We're back to this space, right? Issa wrote, after the attack on Godric's Hollow, it was Hagrid who walked into the smoldering ruins that was the Potter's home and rescued baby Harry. He spent the next full day comforting a traumatized baby with a lightning bolt cut into his forehead and he sobbed when he had to say goodbye to Harry and leave him with the Dursleys. If saving a baby doesn't make you a hero, I don't know what does. Rachel wrote, I feel like as kids we all loved Hagrid and viewed him as a hero. Now, as adults, we are forced to reconcile with that image. We're forced to reconcile that image with the rest of his flaws and it's making us question everything. But I still think he's a hero. And I think it's incredibly important for us to recognize this and call him one. Not in spite of his flaws, but because of them. And Fenty wrote, neville would have been a hero if he hadn't killed Nagini. His efforts with the Room of Requirement and standing up to his friends in the first book make him heroic acts of resistance to the Ministry of Magic count too. I think when we think about the notion of heroism. And I listed a lot of things about Hagrid that make me feel like he's a hero because I think that it is, you know, a very difficult thing to be in the position that Hagrid is in. And a lot of what Hagrid's existence looks like is self sacrifice because he is out in the world doing things and doing things in a world that wants him to do nothing, that doesn't believe that he has the right to exist, that has classified him as something that he absolutely is not. And he is still there. He's still fighting. He's still riding and dying for the people that he loves despite the fact that the world that he lives in wants nothing to do with him. And I feel like that is heroism because. And it's a hard thing for us maybe to conceptualize because Hagrid very rarely gives voice to the problems that he is, like, having to face. He just kind of seemingly takes him on the chin. But there is something to be said about the way that he lives his life in the face of a society that has already cast him as a dangerous, bad person. And what's more is that he's fighting for a side that seeks to keep that system in place because the other reality is, y' all, that no One on the Order of the Phoenix is trying to fix the plight of giants. No one in Dumbledore's army is worried about what's going on with giants or any of these other creatures for that matter. This is all an anti Voldemort movement. This is not an, this is not a let's fix the system movement. And Hagrid is still there and there is a heroism to that particular reality. Again, on top of all the things that he does when we talk about what we've been using as a metric for all of these other individuals. He fought in the Battle of Hogwarts. He fought in Order of the Phoenix. When the Death Eaters came to arrest him and get McGonagall, he fought. I mean, he's been fighting this whole time. He has defended all of these. I don't know, I think I'll put it like this. I'll put it like this so that I don't rant and rave too much. For the individuals who don't believe that Hagrid is a hero. I would love for you to share your thoughts in the post episode chat about this because I'm genuinely curious as to kind of what the bar is and whether or not and why it is that you don't think Hagrid meets it. Because based on all these things that we've done and the metrics that we've used, I feel like he checks the boxes over and over and over again. And so if you are of the mind that Hagrid is not a hero and you would like to share your thoughts, you know that this is a space where we are not gonna be like and this is why you're wrong, but rather really interested in hearing your thoughts. And so please, if you feel comfortable, please share. If you are someone who doesn't feel comfortable sharing in the post episode chat, I completely understand that. And you want to send me a DM on Instagram, you know where to find me. And if you don't, just listen to the end of the episode and I'll tell you. But I'm interested because I don't think that there is much of a defense for him not being here. And so I'm interested in hearing why some of us think that he's not. This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you liked today's episode, first of all, thank you. Please feel free to like rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does where pods are cast. Thank you all so much for listening I cannot wait to get your thoughts on the post Episode Episode chat. If you want to follow me on social media I told you I'd give you the answer, please feel free to do so @prof.jw on Instagram profw on TikTok. Send me an email at criticalmagictheorymail.com check us out online. Criticalmagictheory.com that was really fast and clear y' all. If you want to join us for the post episode chat, please feel free to do so@patreon.com criticalmagictheory There are a lot of perks. We are currently doing a bonus episode series on the internal workings of Hogwarts and different classes and the first episode about Hogwarts has been posted for the deep divers and critical Overthinkers. Chronic Overthinkers. We're all critical thinkers here. Anyways, I've got to go now. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Until then, be critical and stay magical my friends. Bye.