Professor Julian Womble (0:00)

Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the wizarding world of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Julian Womble, and today, y'all, we are getting political. Now, those of us in the United States are already politicsed out, and that's me. That's me coming as a political scientist. Like, I've had enough. But here we are. We're doing this and we are doing it together. We will be talking about the ministers of magic that we meet in the series, Cornelius Fudge and Rufus Scrymgeour. Now, some of us may say, I thought we were just focused on Pure Bloods. And to that I say, we are. And some of you may say in response to that, well, how do we know that these two are Pure Bloods? When I was talking to the Chronic Overthinkers in one of our monthly virtual meetups, we established that it is so unlikely that the magical world, which as we know is very, very, very much grounded in Pure Blood supremacy, would let the leader of the party be someone who is not a pureblood. And so we allow that logic to kind of guide us in the belief that Rufus Scrymgeour and Cornelius Fudge are both Pure Bloods, because that's how Supremacy works. And that is how we understand the way that the world works, is that people who get appointed to things are probably a part of the ruling class. And we see in a number of situations, particularly as it pertains to Fudge, that he makes very specific kinds of choices and decisions with a Pure Blood supremacist view. Right. We know that he kind of punishes the Weasleys because of their own politics. And so when we take these things kind of together, it points to the fact that it is very likely that both he and Rufus Scrymgeour, who was appointed, are probably both Pure Blood people. And we can quibble about that, but again, there are moments where this is a democracy. And then there are other moments where I'm straight up dictatorial. And this is one of those moments, although I did consult people. So maybe this is an oligarchy. And blame the Chronic Overthinkers. They did this. It was. Well, that's. Well, I guess if I. Anyways, you get what I'm saying. Everyone please stop yelling at me. Oh, my goodness. Have you ever wondered what the purpose of the Minister of Magic actually is? Or would we have thought differently of Fudge if Voldemort never returned? And are the issues we have with these characters. And there are some issues. Many of you gave voice to them because of them or the institution of the Ministry of Magic itself. We are getting into all of it in this episode. But before we do, Mia on Patreon said that given the state of the United States and the most recent election outcome, that we needed words of encouragement. And at first I was like, girl, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do that because I'm in a state. But then I thought to myself, okay, what does Harry Potter have to say about moments like this? And there's a quote that always gets me at the end of Goblet of Fire, after Harry has dealt with all the trauma and drama and madness of Voldemort's return and he is seeing Hagrid before they are leaving to go onto the Hogwarts Express, and he is with Ron and Hermione. I'm going to read it straight from the book, but I am not going to do it in any sort of Hagrid narration, because I can't do it. I know my limits and y'all are not about to record me and send me out into the world sounding crazy. So I'm going to read it. Not like Hagrid, but you get the point. Knew he was going to come back, said Hagrid and Harry. Ron and Hermione looked up at him, shocked. Known it for years. Harry knew he was out there biding his time. It had to happen. Well, now it has, and we'll just have to get on with it. We'll fight, maybe be able to stop him before he gets a hold. He then goes on to say, no good sitting and worrying about it. What's coming will come and we'll meet it when it does. Now, I don't know about many of you, but I'm still in the place of sitting and worrying about it. And that's an okay place to be. But I think that what Hagrid points to and what Hagrid invites us to do is recognize that we can't stay in that place and that there is something really meaningful and important about recognizing that the worry that we have is valid. And I think that this is something that's not necessarily just tied to Americans. I think that this is something that is felt globally. Right? Because the United States, for better or for worse, is a global superpower. And who runs the country has massive implications for any number of things that happened around the world. And so all we can do is meet the challenges when they Come. And part of me is not necessarily assuaged by that, but the other part of me is like, okay, well, maybe being assuaged isn't part of the calculus right now. Maybe a recognition that something has to be done and that there are many of us who will have to do some of that work, and that has to be okay for right now. And so my encouraging word to you is to recognize that reality. When I woke up on Wednesday morning, after the results had been released, I texted my therapist because we've talked a lot about the song have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas, which is a very weird thing to talk about in therapy, but that's a different story for a different day. But one of my favorite lyrics in that song is, until then, we'll have to muddle through somehow. And it's a line in the song that is not in every version because some people find it to be very depressing. But right now it feels very, very, very pertinent. And so we will just have to muddle through. And one of the things that Harry Potter teaches us is that it is much better on a number of dimensions to muddle through an experience like this with community. And so I want to say that I'm so grateful that you all are here to just listen to me, I guess, and to be in community in our conversations in various different platforms, but that, you know, Harry makes it through because of Ron and Hermione. And I think that being in community and having contact with other people to commiserate with, to laugh with, to bop along to the theme song with, ah, you see what I did there makes such a difference. And so I'm grateful for this community, and I hope that this is a space where we feel that we can lean on one another as what is undoubtedly going to be a very tumultuous span of time unfolds. And so, like Hagrid said, you know, we'll meet it now that it's here, but before we do that, before we meet it, because we still got some months, we need to bop along to the theme song, y'all. And you already knew. And so even while I was doing this very kind of emotional thing, you were stretching, you were getting yourself together because you said, you know what? I know what's coming. And so it's time. It's time to bop along to the theme song. Three, two, one. Let's bop. We need to talk about Harry Potter. I sincerely hope you danced, y'all, because it's good for the soul, apparently. I want to start by welcoming any new listeners that we have. Welcome. Hi. Hello. This episode's gonna be a time because when I tell you that you all really have a lot of thoughts on Cornelius Fudge in particular, who, you know, we spend a considerable amount of time with, less so on Rufus Scrimger. But there are still some thoughts and some things, and I really cannot wait to get into it with you all. I also want to thank those of you who joined on our post episode conversation about Neville on Patreon. That was a ton of fun bars. And I also want to say thank you to our new chronic overthinkers, Kelly, Faith, Paula, and Ms. Sabina. I can't tell you how much your support, financial and otherwise, means to me and what it offers this podcast in terms of the ability to just do any number of things. So it is very meaningful to me. Thank you so much. Also, I would be remiss to not give an update on the merch. So, y'all, I was ready. I have been contacted by some designers. And then life happened. Mm. And things occurred, and I completely dropped the ball because life. And now I'm getting back to a headspace where I can, like, navigate this effectively. And so for those of you who reached out to me, know that you will be hearing from me and we will get the ball rolling on this. I don't have an ETA on when things will be done, but they will be done. And so that's just. Bear with me on this. I am still trying to figure out a balance of things. And so we're in the process of figuring that out, but it is happening. Yes. Because I've seen a lot of people out here with tote bags, and I'm like, I think we need a critical magic theory tote bag. And maybe it's just me, because I'm obsessed with totes, but they feel like they're all the rage. And it. It. It feels like a thing that we actively need. And so, yeah, I think that that's. That's gonna happen. It has to. I think it's required by law. And you know what else is required by law? Liking, rating, subscribing, following, doing all the things on the social media spaces and places where you might find me. And on TikTok, that is roffw, p r O F W. And on Instagram, that's Prof. J.W. y'all, we have a good time. Okay. And if you are interested in joining the Patreon and joining in our conversations and our chats, there are many of you who are joining us. And then listening to the episodes and catching up. Please feel free to still comment on the corresponding episodes. That's totally fine. I see them. Some people see them and respond. It's great. Share your thoughts, share your chaotic beliefs. If you feel so inclined to bring a hot take, then those are also welcomed. The link to the Patreon is in my bio. But and this is important, this is important for anyone who is thinking about, particularly those who are thinking about subscribing financially to the Patreon. And this only affects those individuals who would be new subscribers. So if you already subscribe, you are unaffected by what I'm about to say. For those people who use Apple, the Patreon app on Apple to look at all of the things that you are subscribed to and to get new subscriptions. If you become a new financial subscriber to Critical Magic Theory via the Patreon app on an Apple device, they will charge you more. The workaround is to Simply go to patreon.com criticalmagictheory in your browser, whether it be on your phone, but probably if you do it on your phone, it'll take you to the app. So just get on a computer and sign up that way. And that way you can avoid this extra charge because it's ridiculous and Patreon is pissed about it and I'm not loving it. But this is the world that we live in because capitalism. And so we are going to figure out how to beat the system the best we can. And I think the best way to do that is just to subscribe via your browser. And finally, I know, I know we're gonna get there. I promise we're gonna get to the episode. But there's a lot going on, so just like, bear with me for a quick sec. Next week's episode is going to be on Cedric Diggory. I know we said that we wanted to hold off on him on our conversation on Patreon, but I need some Cedric Diggory. Some Hufflepuff energy, some loyalty, some friendship, some niceties. I know what happens to him is tragic, and so obviously there's gonna be that. But so much of Cedric's existence is also one that is so beautiful. And the time that we get to spend with him in Goblet of Fire is really wonderful as well. And so that is where we're going to be because I think many of us could use a respite from the drama, madness and sadness that is the current state of things. So Cedric Diggory is our guy and that is who we will be discussing for our next episode. I will have a survey for you all by the end of the week. Looking forward to your thoughts and all of the things. Now let's get into Cornelius Fudge and Rufus Scrimger, y'all. My favorite moment is a moment that involves both Rufus Scrymgeour and Cornelius Fudge, and also involves my favorite chapter in the entire series, which is the Other Minister. Because I just think the chapter is so incredible. And the thing about this chapter that I think really resonates with me as we think about kind of who these two individuals are, is for all their differences, and there are a lot of differences between the two of them, what we can see in this moment when they are both in the office of the Mughal Prime Minister, is that they do not respect him. They see themselves as superior. They think it's a waste of their time. I mean, Rufus Scrymgeour literally sends Cornelius Fudge in to basically be like, catch him up. Cause I don't have time for this. I'm super busy. And I think that this moment is one that really stands out to me because it shows us their outlook on non magical people. And what else really stands out to me is how absolutely unprepared both of them are for the reality that the evil that they are experiencing through Voldemort and his kind of rise is because nothing has been done by anyone in the kind of governmental structure of the magical world to prevent it from happening. And when the Muggle Prime Minister says to them, I don't understand how this keeps happening. You all have magic. And they turn to him and Cornelius Fudge says, the problem is, my dear minister, they do magic as well. And I am always struck by this moment because I'm like. It just strikes me that there is something so wrong that both of these men who have been put into power for one reason or another are so ill equipped and unprepared to navigate the truth that has always been the truth. Like, dark wizards are not new. Voldemort is not the first dark wizard. And yet somehow both of them are completely unprepared. And what we see them try to do to navigate this new reality that people who look like them, behave like them, use the same kind of magic that they do, could behave in ways that are counter to the kind of overall greater good. The fact that they are so unprepared to navigate that particular reality and the way that they go about it is by lying and manipulating and trying to use Harry as, like A smokescreen speaks volumes about both of them, not only as leaders, but it tells us a very specific kind of story about who they are as magical people. And I think that there's something very telling about that, because one of the things that I will probably rant and rave about throughout this episode is just how completely inept they are at really getting down to the issue at hand. And I think part of that ineptitude is because they don't see the role of Minister of Magic as one that is really requiring them to protect other people who are magical because of magic. And so they're completely unprepared for the reality of what that actually looks like when a magical person turns the very tool that they are so used to using on the people who also use it as well. What word best describes Cornelius Fudge? We've got coward. Cowardly and incompetent. I think that I want to go from the bottom and work our way up, because I think that a lot of what we see from Cornelius Fudge in terms of his incompetence is, like, weaponized incompetence. I think he does it all on purpose, because if he made a choice that people didn't like, by his own steam, he couldn't blame someone like Dumbledore. And we know that he relies heavily, heavily, heavily on Dumbledore. Many of you brought this up in your comments. He relies so heavily on Dumbledore for all of his decision making. And I think some of this is because he just is completely and utterly out of his depth. But some of it, I think, is the desire for a scapegoat. I think that he wants someone who is able to kind of take the brunt of the blame. And part of the reason why I think this is because we see him in, to great effect, rather take over the Ministry and use the media in a crazy way in Order of the Phoenix. And, I mean, he effectively turns so much of the magical community against Harry and Dumbledore through a media campaign that is very, very, very well constructed. And I'm sure he had some help. But I think that this is an instance where I'm like, no, Cornelius Fudge knows what he's doing, and he gives Dumbledore a fair amount of latitude because it's easier. I think if I had to describe Cornelius Fudge in a word, it would be lazy. I think Cornelius Fudge does whatever he needs to do as long as the visage of his own position is kind of maintained. He's like, y'all do whatever I do. Not care. But the moment that it becomes threatened is the moment that he is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's what we're not gonna do. You are not going to sit around here and make me look bad. It simply will not happen. And I think we see this again when he appoints Dolores Umbridge to Hogwarts. Again, a stroke of genius because while we do not like her and what she did at Hogwarts was terrible, it was outlandishly effective in terms of removing so much power from Dumbledore and still indoctrinating at least some of the kids into believing certain things that the ministry wanted them to believe. And also allowing parents probably to feel better because the ministry is taking a more active hand in what's happening at the school after Cedric's death. And so he knows how to play the game. I think he just actively decides not to. And I think that when he doesn't have to, he just won't. And so I think the notion of his incompetence is really, it's weaponized. I think he uses it to his advantage because it makes his life a lot easier. Because Dumbledore, you know, is obviously very willing to do these things, but obviously like he is capable now. The decisions he makes aren't great and it comes with consequences, right? Like he ultimately loses his job because of all the things that he did. But he is capable of doing it and he again was effective in some of those pursuits. And so I think that, you know, this incompetence is a put on. I'm not convinced that it's something that's like actively true. Like he's good enough to be able to defame Harry freaking Potter. Like that is no small feat. And in terms of his cowardice, I think that this is where we see a lot of like who he truly is. Because again, so much of it is about the facade, it's about what it looks like on the outside. And I think underneath it all he's outrageously scared. And I think part of the reason why he's so afraid is because like he's just like, I'm completely out of my depth on the best of days. And now you all have expectations of me that I simply can't meet. Particularly because I became Minister of Magic under a very specific time. Like this is a post Voldemort era and life is easy. No one's expecting anything of me. All I have to do is make sure that the non magical people don't find out about us easy peasy lemon squeezy. Now you're telling me that Voldv is back. Now you're telling me that there's been a mass breakout at the ban. Like, I didn't sign up for this. This isn't what I wanted. And again, I think that this comes to a very specific thing about what it means to be Minister of Magic, because to me, that job is not a job. That is one that's about actively protecting magical people. Because I don't think the Ministry of Magic is about protecting magical people, because I don't think that they feel they need to be protected on the day to day because they have magic. And so it's only in the face of a Voldemort or a Grindelwald that we really see the necessity of this. And so I think Fudge is a scared person who is put into a position at first that doesn't require much of anything, and then all of a sudden it's turned on his head. And so, yeah, I think he's absolutely a coward. And so he tries to play his game of just like keeping up a cute facade in the middle of a burgeoning war, and it doesn't work. And that's when we get Rufus Scrymgeour. And the words that you all used to describe him were tough, ruthless and stubborn. And I think that there is something very clear about that as well. And it sounds very much to me like mad eye moody. And so I wonder if part of this and the part of his characteristic disposition is because he's an auror and he's probably seen really, really, really terrifying things and he is brought in as like a wartime minister. And so relative to Cornelius Fudge, it feels like very, very different because Cornelius Fudge is like, oh, whatever. Like, it is what it is. Like, oh, you broke that rule. That's okay. Like, oh, you know, as long as everything looks good, we are good. And Rufus Scrimger is like, I know what's out there. And people have brought me in to try to beat this thing back. And so I don't have time to be worried about the kind of politic within politics because I'm trying to actively do a thing of eradicating Voldemort and his forces. And so this kind of stubbornness and this ruthlessness comes with that. And. And the toughness, I think, is something that people want. And I think, you know, when we think about politics broadly construed in our own world, one of the big things that, you know, at least in the United States, And I'm sure it's true in other places. One of the big things that, you know, people talk about is strength, right? And your ability to show up and be in certain spaces with certain personalities and be able to show up as this strong kind of forceful person who is not gonna be, you know, beaten back or browbeaten into doing things that aren't in the best interest of your constituency. And I think that in a moment where the magical world is realizing, oh, Voldemort is back, it's like, no, no, no. We need someone who is gonna be able to really stick it to him. And it strikes me that, you know, Rufus Scrymgeour is someone who embodies that. And I think people want that toughness. People want that ruthlessness. People want the stubbornness. It reminds me also of what we learn about Barty Crouch Sr. In his time as the head of magical law enforcement, where he was just like, we're going toe to toe. We're going unforgivable curse to unforgivable curse. And people were really liking that tactic. And so part of what we see from Rufus Scrymgeour and this toughness, the ruthlessness and this kind of stubbornness, I think is the byproduct of, you know, his selection being one that was made with the context in which they find themselves being very, very, very specific. And people wanting to have someone unlike Fudge, who was outlandishly malleable and who was outlandishly, you know, cowardly. They wanted someone who was strong, who was going to really take it to Voldemort. And I think that Rufus Scrymgeour at least presents again the visage of that. Now, whether or not he actually does it is a whole other thing, but I think he presents the idea of it, and I think for a lot of people, visuals matter, and I think that he offers people a sense of safety that may not actually be real, but it is something that people feel is true. And in politics, that's really what it comes down to. But we'll talk about that later. It is time for us to get into our arithmancy lesson. For this episode's arithmancy Lesson, we had 201 responses. I'm going to do this one a little bit different because I asked the same questions for both Fudge and for Scrymgeour. So we're just going to do them side by side as opposed to going from one character into the next. And so the first question is, are they good people? So for Cornelius Fudge, 75.1% of us said no, 17.9% of us said don't know and 7% of us said yes. For Scrymgeour, 40.3% of us said no, 39.3% of us said don't know, and 20.4% of us said yes. So Scrymgeour is at least seen as a better person than Cornelius Fudge, someone wrote. The question of whether Fudge is a good person, I put no. He acts in ways that are abhorrent and selfish and cowardly, going so far as to try to bring Harry on his side to save his political career, despite having waged a year long smear campaign against him. Indeed, in scenes where he and Harry are on friendly terms, Fudge treats Harry in a manner very similar to Slughorn. Like he's getting a thrill being on friendly terms with an ostensibly powerful and let's not forget famous wizard. Like, he's not interested in Harry, he's interested in what he represents. Until Harry starts representing something he doesn't like. Then he turns on him in a blink. And this is what I'm talking about, right? Like there is a strategic way that Fudge operates. And I meant to ask this question, but then life happened last week, as you all know. But I think it's giving Slytherin and I think that that's literally what we're dealing with. I think we're dealing with someone who knows how to just be outlandishly strategic in the way that they go about doing these things. Because he will leverage Harry in whatever way he sees possible and sees fit if it benefits him. Someone else wrote, I don't think Fudge is a good person. He runs a ministry that is pretty openly corrupt. He's insecure and mercurial, he's willfully ignorant of evidence right in front of his face, he works to cover up multiple ministry scandals, and he actively bullies a teenage boy for his own political gain. Sounds a bit like another politician who wears a curious hat. Wha. Well, this is. Okay, I wasn't going to do this just now, but thank you to whoever wrote this comment. Because this is what I'm saying when we talk about and I'm just gonna say his name because to not say his name gives him more power. And that's what Dumbledore told me. So anyways, when we talk about Trump, so many people talk about how Donald Trump is like Voldemort. But honestly y'all, I'm really of the mind that Trump is Fudge. Like I think that there is a narcissism, there is a desire to be seen and liked, and everything else doesn't matter, right? Like, how effective you are is not important. And if I think that you can do something for me, then I will do it. I will allow you to do that and I'll make you feel special. But, like, you aren't special to me. And there's something about that that just resonates with me a lot. When I think about Trump, which I don't do very often, but when I do and I think about the parallels of Harry Potter, I'm like, there are lots of things about him that I can see why people draw the Voldemort comparison. But to me, I really do think that he is much more of a Cornelius Fudge than he is anything else. But I digress. Someone wrote, ultimately, I do think Scrymgeour was probably a good person. He had a career as an Auror and wouldn't give up Harry's location despite being tortured. Although I don't agree with his handling of the Ministry or Harry, I do think his intentions were good. Another person wrote, for Scrymgeour, the only good thing Scrymgeour does in the books is keep Harry's location a secret. When the Death Eaters tortured him before killing him, we never see him put away any real Death Eaters, only fake ones like Stan Shungpike. He even covers up the Death Eater breakout from the ban instead of informing the public that there are mass murderers on the loose. He, like Fudge, was too concerned about Dumbledore and appearance to fight against Voldemort. This is a bit of a tricky question because obviously we meet Fudge and Scrymgeour in very different contexts, right? And we don't really get to spend a lot of time with Scrymgeour. But I do think that for Scrymgeour, being a good person is not something he's actually interested in. I think he's interested in being an effective person. I don't think he wants to be liked. I don't think he wants to be, you know, seen as someone's buddy or pal. I think he just wants to be respected enough to do the job that he has been tasked with doing. Everything about him feels very utilitarian. There's no sense of, like, wanting to be affable. And I think that in that we find a truth where he's not gonna put on airs for the sake of putting on airs. Like he tries a little bit to do it when he comes to see Harry in Half Blood Prince. But he's not very good at it, right? Like, he's not good at the politicking of it. He's just kind of not effective. Whereas Cornelius Fudge actively seeks to manipulate Harry. And I think the other difference, before I really dive into Fudge on this particular matter, Scrymgeour is not trying to, like, actively manipulate Harry by way of just keeping things from him. Like, he's very upfront about what he wants Harry to do. He's like, I want you to come to the Ministry and, like, say good things about what we're doing and do all of the like. He's like, I am making this petition to you. And, like, maybe I'll try to, like, make it sound better than what it is, but I'm also not going to, like, try to lie and be like, well, why don't you just come to the Ministry for like. Whereas, like, Cornelius Fudge actively does all kinds of skullduggery and manipulation and all kinds of other things to try to convince Harry to do things that he wants him to do without actively saying what it is. And I think that there is something very, like, nefarious about that. And I think, you know, Scrymgeour's task is to kind of end Voldemort, while Fudge is really less concerned about that and more about wanting to be seen in a very specific way. And if he can use Harry to kind of up his cachet, he will do it. And I think I really like the parallel between Fudge and Slughorn, because I think that they do operate in a very specific kind of way of using connections as a way to make themselves look more powerful than they actually are. And it comes back to what I was saying earlier about Fudge, which is he wants to present a very specific kind of picture of himself out in the world. I don't think Scrymgeour cares about that for himself personally. I think he's invested in making the Ministry of Magic look a very specific kind of way. But where Fudge is more concerned about himself, I think Scrymgeour is much more concerned about, like, the institution itself. I don't think either one of those particular viewpoints is good. But it does make me give Fudge more of a side eye than I will give to Scrymgeour, because I think Scrimger is actually invested in doing something, whereas Fudge is more invested in looking a certain way. Are Cornelius Fudge and Rufus Scrimgeour good ministers of magic. For Fudge, 95% of us said no, 3% said don't know and 2% said yes. For Scrymgeour, 49.8% of us said no, 22.4% of us said don't know, and 29, 27.9 said yes. Someone wrote Harry Potter is on one level about the failure of institutions, and both these ministers are emblematic of that. It wouldn't matter what either one of them did in their tenure. They were doomed to fail from the start. We're going to come back to this. Someone else wrote, both are just full of corruption, politicians through and through. Because of this, I don't think either was a good minister. They both failed to protect the people time and time again through, though for different reasons. The power they obtained got the best of both of them. I believe Fudge was so easily swayed by others with power in the way of money and prominence, which I think is a terrible quality in a leader. I think I'm going to take a moment to just talk about kind of the institution first and then we'll get into the comments that are specific to Fudge and specific to Scrymgeour. But I think that this notion of kind of both of them being failures because of the failure of the institution is really important because it invites us back to the question of what the heck is the job of the Minister of Magic in the first place? What are they meant to do? Are they meant to protect the people? And what does protecting them look like? Is it meant to be protecting them from one another? We look and see that that can't be the case. If it is the case, then everybody has failed on every level, on every dimension, at every rank. I think, though, that at its core, the Ministry of Magic is really about protecting magical people from non magical people. And so much of the way that we see the actual institution set up is all about, you know, keeping magic out of the hands of non magical people. And if you think about it in those terms, and you think about, you know, what the selection process looks like for a Minister of Magic. With that in mind, we can understand why Cornelius Fudge was put into place, and we can understand why people would see him as being effective because he probably does a great job at that, because that job is pretty much done by other people. But in the moment where we then have to grapple with the reality that Voldemort has returned, Cornelius Fudge doesn't know what the hell to do. And he is so confused. And that's partially because I think that that's not how he viewed his job. And I think that the institution as a whole is so flawed because it's not actually set up to protect magical people, not from one another. It's certainly not set up to prepare them for the reality of what it would be like if Voldemort were to return, or if another entity that had a very similar ideology to Voldemort would show up again. Right. I want to come back to this moment in the chapter the Other Minister, where Cornelius Fudge says, like, they can do magic too. That moment tells us so clearly that they as a society do not ever consider what it would be like if people who are in the same position as them turned on them. And so, so much of the way that the magical community operates is from this space of victimhood, right? This idea of they did bad to us in the 1600s and we've been stuck there ever since. And the way that we then operate as people and the people that we select to represent us are people who embody this particular belief, but it is them, it is the non magical people who are the problem. It is not us. And so there are no things pretty much set into place. Obviously they have Aurors and they have, you know, magical law enforcement, but clearly not enough. And clearly there's no other kind of institutional things set into place to keep a Voldemort from coming back, to keep a coup from rising up. And so while, yes, I think there are good reasons for us to be askance or to look askance at Scrymgeour and at Fudge, I think we also have to turn our heads to the actual institution and think about its origin story and why it operates the way that it does, so that we can then understand how it is that these two arrive in the positions that they're in and why they operate and do the things that they ultimately do. Now, this is not an excuse for either of them, but I do think that, you know, their role is not one that is really about protecting magical people from magical people. And Fudge gives voice to that in that chapter. And I think that that for me, has always stuck with me about really trying to understand what the heck the Ministry of Magic is actually doing, because protecting its people is not that at all. And I think that it's difficult then for me to look at the ministers of magic and accept, expect for them to do that when that is literally not what the government is built for. Someone wrote, I do think Scrymgeour is a good minister, as Dumbledore says, he's certainly more decisive and action oriented than Fudge, which I think is required for a wartime leader. He's also interested in and ultimately dies protecting the Ministry's control over the magical community. I think this makes him a good minister from the perspective of the Ministry. Someone else wrote, under Cornelius rule, Umbridge is authorized to terrorize and abuse. Voldemort takes full advantage of Cornelius blind eye and plans his takeover from behind the scenes. Cornelius is a classic dictator. Okay, again, we're seeing comparisons to somebody else we know. He imprisons without trial, tortures those he feels threatened by, limits control of education, controls media, spins all stories to fit his narrative and paint himself as heroic and endorses fake news while sowing mistrust of journalism, and paints anyone who questions the narrative he spun as an enemy. Y'all, Y'all. Are you hearing that? Are you hearing that? Like, the people, like, if you take away nothing from this episode, and I hope you take away more than this, but if you take away nothing else from this episode, I want us to be able to walk out of here. And when people start calling Trump Voldemort, correct them. Because here's the thing. When we first met Trump as a presidential contender, everyone thought it was, like, for laughs. And then it became very dangerous very fast, right? And when we first meet Cornelius Fudge, it's kind of the same vibe. And then we realize, like, oh, you're using your power to really undermine people's agency and rights. And I think that there is something so much more dangerous about someone whose intentions are not clear to us at the onset and who, again, weaponize this incompetence to be able to then, like, get a message out there. The thing about Voldemort is, like, we know what he's about. We know what he's gonna be up to. We know how he's gonna go about it. Fudge is. And there is a reason why Voldemort goes and uses the government and doesn't just take over, right, and just declare himself, like, he literally infiltrates the Ministry. There's a reason why he uses the government, and there's a reason why he puts his patsy in to be Minister of Magic, because there is power there, and there is clearly more power than Voldemort actually has as a single entity. And that is important because it tells us, right, that, like, the position that Fudge and Scrymgeour find themselves in is something that is coveted by a Voldemort So much so that he literally puts someone under the imperious curse to do his job, because he knows that people have put their faith in the institution of the Ministry of Magic. And that faith can be easily corrupted, as we saw Fudge do, as we see Scrymgeour try to do, and we see Voldemort actively do. And so the position that they're in is meaningful, y'all. I got chills reading that comment because I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. We know this person. And it also tells us such a very specific story. Someone like Trump would want to be in this particular kind of position because the institution, again, is a space where people have placed their faith. And so when you can corrupt the institution, right, because the ground on which it is built is shaky to begin with, it's easier to get people under your control. And again, I say, right, like it's giving more Fudge than it is Voldemort, the last comment says. So to sum it up, thank you, whoever wrote this, Fudge is the idiot politician trope, the face of ineffectual leadership that gives comfort but little action. Scrymgeour, on the other hand, is a hard nosed leader trying to salvage a broken system from within, stuck in the same power structures he's trying to protect. They're both limited by their roles and the expectations of the wizarding public, but Scrymgeour at least brings a sense of urgency and intent that Fudge never had. Neither is a true hero, but in their own ways, they each reflect the complexities of leadership during a time of crisis. Yes, I think that that's very right. I think that what we have to recognize is the constraints placed on each of them. And I think that this last comment really brings up a good point. Fudge is not trying to change the system. Fudge is trying to operate and wield power within a system that he doesn't see as broken. And Scrymgeour recognizes that the system is broken, but only once he is brought in. And there is another power that has come in and threatened the structure itself. And that's when the cracks begin to show. And he is trying to not necessarily repair it, but sure it up. Right? He's basically throwing duct tape on all of the cracks and trying to make sure that no one really sees what's going on behind the scenes. Because again, the structure of the Ministry of Magic is not created to protect people. So now you've brought in a minister who is meant to do the protecting, and there is nothing set in place to actually do that. And so he has to kind of create these mirages around to make it look like the Ministry is effective. Because there is no way for the Ministry to be effective when the actual governmental structure itself is literally only set to be protective. When you're dealing with non magical people, and now they're not. And there is nothing set in place. And the way that that resonates with me, I'm just like, yeah, no, Scrymgeour has a much harder job than Fudge did. And I think, again, I don't want to excuse the way that he goes about trying to use Harry, but we can understand why. Because how can you be an effective leader when all the tools at your disposal are meant to do one thing and you need them to do another? And no one has ever really thought about the prospect of this, despite the fact that for the last 13 years, this person who you are fighting against has been mia. And you all could have done things to protect yourselves after this. I mean, honestly, you could have done it after Grindelwald, but you put all of your faith in Dumbledore and literally said, we're good, don't worry about it. Who needs governmental structures? This also reminds me of the moment that we're living in now. And I think that this is true globally, right, where we've had all of these instances where, you know, atrocities have occurred and we have done very little to actually prepare ourselves for the likelihood that they could occur again. And then they do occur again, and everyone's like, what happened? And it just strikes me that, like, the way that Scrymgeour has to operate as a minister, it's very difficult to be effective when you are operating within a structure that was not built to be effective in this way. And so I think that it is safe to say that neither of them are actually good ministers of magic, but for very different reasons. And I think that Scrymgeour is actually constrained by the issues of the institution. And Fudge doesn't care about those issues because he doesn't feel like he needs them. And when he does need them, he just uses more nefarious tactics to figure out a way around the issues that exist within the world rather than trying to fix them. Are Cornelius Fudge and Rufus Scrymgeour good? Pure bloods? For Cornelius Fudge, 43.8% said yes, 21.9 said no, and 34.3 said don't know. For Scrymgeour, 46, 56 said don't know 23.4% said no and 19.9% said yes. Someone wrote, I think that Fudge is a perfect example of what was expected of a pure blood civilian in a magical society. Keep your head down, go along to get along and avoid cognitive dissonance at all cost. It isn't until he sees incontrovertible, undeniable proof that Voldy is back that he finally acknowledges what many have known for a year. At that point, someone else wrote Fudge is a good pure blood because his ignorance actively took away the ability to prepare for what's coming from a lot of Muggle borns and their defenders by ignoring the truth and confusing them with weird stories about Dumbledore and Harry. Another person wrote, for Scrymgeour, as for whether Scrymgeour is a good pure blood, I don't know. There's simply not enough information to make that call. We don't spend enough time with him to get any information impressions from that area. Someone else wrote, similar to Fudge, I also think Scrymgeour is a good pure blood. I think he recognizes the threat Voldemort poses to pure blood supremacy and knows that the Ministry is the only real way to maintain true pure blood supremacy. A true blood supremacist society. One thing that I think is true for both Fudge and Scrymgeour is that they have so little regard for non magical people. And I think part of this comes from the kind of lore about what non magical people did to magical people many, many centuries ago. And I think that that's just kind of the way that we see many of our characters, particularly our pure blood characters, operate right, with this, again, this sense of victimhood. But I also think that Fudge is much more invested in the maintenance of pure blood supremacy, right? Like we know again that he did not promote Arthur and give him his due because of Arthur and the Weasleys politics. And so that once Scrymgeour comes in and he promotes Arthur, this suggests to us that he has less of an investment in kind of the maintenance of pure blood supremacy, at least in the way of kind of elevating people who put forth a picture of a good pure blood, right? Someone who's wealthy, someone who has influence, someone who has a specific belief, but maybe they don't talk about it very often, right? Like this seems to be the kind of person that Fudge is invested in. And we see that Scrymgeour again is much more about efficacy. What can be done, how can this thing be fixed and less about the kind of social aspects of wizarding society. And I don't think that that removes him from the idea of kind of being a supremacist because we do see him treat non magical people or the one non magical people that we do get to see him interact with as kind of this lesser than person. But I do think that the difference between him and Fudge is Fudge's subscription and belief in pure blood supremacy feels much more absolute than Scrymgeour's. I think Scrymgeour would use pure blood supremacy if it meant that he was gonna be more effective at doing his job. Whereas Fudge doesn't care about his job. He just wants to be seen in a very specific kind of way. And so I think that for Fudge, I would say, yes, he is a good pureblood because he upholds pure blood supremacy and actively uses it to his own ends, right? Like he promotes people who buy into the negative aspects of pure bloodedness and demotes the people, put forth a more progressive understanding of what it means to be pure blood in society, like the Weasleys. And to be clear, right, like we've talked about this a lot, the Weasleys are not the most progressive purebloods, right? Like they hold some pretty negative views of Muggle people, but it's not as severe as we have often discussed the Malfoys and some of the other people that we've talked about. And so it's interesting, right, because it also suggests that even people who buy into it to a lesser extent are viewed by Fudge as being less than, and thus he treats them that way. But Scrymgeour by all accounts, is much less invested in this and much more invested in making sure that whatever task he is set gets done in the best way possible. And particularly when it comes to dealing with things that he doesn't understand, right? Like he doesn't know anything about Muggle things. And so Arthur is someone who has at least some level of expertise. And so he uses him because he doesn't care about his politics. He cares about what he's going to be able to get done. And I think this is a really meaningful distinction between Fudge and Scrymgeour. We've now reached the point in the episode where I'm going to reflect based on what you all have presented in the surveys and also just my own thinkings and ruminations about both Cornelius Fudge and Rufus Scrymgeour. And the thing that I keep Coming back to is, you know, we've spent a lot of time talking about this notion of protection and what does it look like to protect and the difficulty of actually executing protection of a population who one doesn't necessarily necessarily think they need to be protected because they can do magic. But also, there's no recognition of the ills of the ability to do magic and what it means when it's used against you. And so that when we look at, you know, the acts of Fudge and Scrymgeour, I think there's a lot of really interesting differences. But I think one thing that stands out to me is both of their investment in the projection of safety, in the idea that if I can make you feel safe, it's better than whether you actually are safe or not. And both Scrymgeour and Fudge, and many of you brought this up, seem very invested in the kind of creation of a sense of safety and not real safety. And some of that could be the byproduct of a structure and a system that doesn't actually invest in creating safety from one another within the magical community, but only from those outside of it. But the actions that they take are ones that are very much invested in making sure that everyone looks at them and says, you are effective without actually having to be effective. When we think about what Cornelius Fudge does in Chamber of Secrets when he sends Hagrid to Azkaban because of the petrifications that are happening even though he had already been exonerated from before, and yet he. They send him back because they have to be looking as if they're doing something. Then, of course, there's everything with Stan Shunpike. There is the blaming of Sirius Black for the murders and all of the terrible things that are happening. And we can understand to a certain extent that feeling safe is important, right? But I also think that part of the feeling of safety is the implicit belief that something is being done to actually keep us safe, safe. And I think part of what befell Fudge was the fact that he was creating a feeling of safety without actually making people safe. So that when Voldemort is revealed to actually be back, people are like, now, wait a minute, because you told us he wasn't. And we've been out here wandering around, just living our lives. Meanwhile, you mean to tell me that this noseless fiend has been slithering around the world and we didn't know, and you can imagine why then that makes people much more upset and why he finally lost his job because when the reality of danger actually is clear and you realize that nothing has been set in place by the people who you believe are actually protecting you, that you have been risking it all this whole time. And I think that, you know, even Scrymgeour, who actually, I think, wants to create a space in which people are legitimately safe, has to do the first step of making them believe it's safe. Because if you have a group of people in panic, then it's harder for you to do your job. But the reality of it is, right, and I said this before, that part of the reason why their job is so hard is because they didn't do anything to try to make it easier for themselves when Voldemort actually wasn't there. And so now all they know how to do is make people feel something that isn't real. BARS and the other issue with making people feel safe and not actually creating safeguards is that that's how you get Voldemort's ability to then come in and again slither into the ministry and use all of the powers of the institution to his advantage. Because everyone is getting these pamphlets and they're getting all these things and they kind of know that he's out there, but no one knows what he's up to because there's no transparency. And I think there is such a fear of fear that elected officials have or if you know the truth, you will not be able to function and society will collapse. And I think maybe there's something to that. But I also am very much of the mind that what we see from Scrymgeour and from Fudge is that they don't have any faith in the people that they are supposed to be protecting. One, because they don't know how to protect them and two, because I think that they believe them to be much more fragile than they are. And the reason why they're so fragile is because they don't have any information, because the government isn't giving them any. And the information that the government is giving them is false. And so everyone's walking around with this false sense of security, with the belief that the true danger is non magical people. That's how they've been raised, that's how they've been socialized. All the while there are people with dangerous ideologies running around in the society and some of them, like Lucius Malfoy, are literally paying their way into spaces and places to make decisions. And so this corruption kind of builds upon itself because once you get addicted to the Idea that all I have to do is make you feel safe without actually having to do the hard work of actually creating safety and there's no threats, well, then my job is easy. And so Cornelius Fudge fails on every level as far as I'm concerned. Because Voldemort was gone for so long and nothing was done. And I think, you know, part of this is because he also leaned so much on a singular person in the form of Albus Dumbledore. And everyone expects him to be the one to actually do the protection, to actually do the thing that goes beyond the scope of making people feel safe. And even Rufus Scrymgeour does that, right? Like, even he's expecting Dumbledore to do a lot of this work. And Dumbledore, to his credit, is very much invested in doing the work that it takes to bring Voldemort down. But it requires a level of transparency, right? Like Dumbledore wants to tell the wizarding world Voldemort is back and he killed Cedric Diggory and he is back on his way up to running the society like he was trying to do before. And that there is such an investment in that idea of like, well, that's gonna make me look bad and ineffective. Because the reality of the situation is, is that when people know things, when they have full information, they have expectations, they have desires, they want things from you, they expect things from you. If people knew the fullest experience of Voldemort's return, they were gonna expect Cornelius Fudge to do something. And Cornelius Fudge, again, was ill equipped to be able to do that. And so he just kept biding his time by throwing these little trinkets out to make everyone think that they were safe. Not because he was actually trying to enact a plan, but because he didn't have one. And so he had to trick them. And that's the issue, right? We can imagine with the notion of transparency that that Dumbledore was trying to put out into the world. Because when you tell people things, they want to know that they are safe, right? The feeling of safety is no longer sufficient. They need hard proof that you are doing the work to keep them safe. And Cornelius Fudge could not provide that. And Rufus Scrymgeour could barely provide that. Because so much of the way that the system itself, the structure, the Ministry of Magic itself is made up is not to make you actually safe, but to feel safe, to feel protected, right? All of these wards and enchantments that are used to keep non magical people away that is the sense of protection that they are creating in the Ministry of Magic. It has nothing to do with the people who can also do magic. And so that when I keep coming back to this quote, it's called a through line, when the minister, the Muggle minister, says to them, but you all can do magic. And they're like, yeah, but they can too. The subtext of that is, and we were not ready for it because we are so invested in keeping our populace ignorant and keeping them unaware of the possibility of this ever happening again. Because we don't want to deal with panic and we also don't want to deal with looking bad. We don't want to be seen as ineffective. And if we give them true information about what is actually happening, then we are the ones who pay the cost. And we love the power, we love the influence, we love the things that this position affords us. And we cannot do that. So we are actively, actively invested in making sure that people don't really know what's going on. And it's all in the name of their protection. You don't need to know. This is a need to know. You don't need to know that because we can't tell you. And it's like, yeah, because if we knew, we would want answers. We would want to know how it happened. How is it that Voldemort came back? How is it that Cedric Diggory was at a school sanctioned event and died? How is it that there was a massive breakout in the ban and nobody knew about it? And so this investment in keeping the population feeling safe is good for political officials because it means that they don't have to answer any of the hard hitting questions and they don't have to do any extra work to actively make you safe because you feel it. And that's all you need. You only need to have it. And we see both Fudge and Scrymgeour using this tactic against the people in the magical world, much to their detriment. Right? I mean, people ultimately lose their lives because they are not prepared. And the reality is they're not prepared because the Ministry itself is woefully unprepared. We did it, y'all. This was mostly me ranting into a microphone and I hope that you all took something away from it because, you know, there are moments where I was like, I'm just yelling. I hope I'm making sense. Sense. Please feel free to let me know whether I did or not in the post episode chat on Patreon. Please feel free to Join us there again. The next episode will be on Cedric Diggory. I cannot wait. A little ray of Hufflepuff sunshine. Is he the first Hufflepuff we're going to talk about? I think he might be. That's exciting. I am so grateful for you all listening to this episode and yeah, I will. Let's like, let's get ourselves together. Please join me in our post episode chat because I feel like I threw some things out there and I'm excited to hear your thoughts on them. This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Wambal and if you liked today's episode, first of all, thank you. Please feel free to rate, like, subscribe. Do all the things that one does where pods are cast. If you want to follow me on social media, Please do so rofw on TikTok and Prof. JW on Instagram. Okay. CriticalMagicTheory.com is the website. Okay, hold on. We gotta. We gotta do a little something. Please feel free to join us on patreon@patreon.com criticalmagictheory for our post episode chat and a bunch of other things. And until our next episode, be critical and stay magical, my friends. Bye.