Podcast Summary: "How Do Games Like DAGGERHEART Get Made?" featuring Ivan Van Norman

Podcast Information:

• Title: Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry
• Host/Author: Geek & Sundry
• Episode: How Do Games Like DAGGERHEART Get Made? (w/ Ivan Van Norman)
• Release Date: June 4, 2025
• Current Season: Ten Candles: Eclipse

Overview: In this engaging episode of Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry, host Dan Casey sits down with Ivan Van Norman, a prominent figure in the tabletop role-playing game (TTRPG) community. The discussion delves deep into the creation and development of Daggerheart, a newly released fantasy role-playing game published by Darrington Press, an arm of Critical Role. Ivan shares his journey from a passionate gamer to a game designer and publisher, offering valuable insights into the intricate process of bringing a TTRPG from concept to market.

1. Introduction to Ivan Van Norman and His Background

The episode begins with Dan Casey introducing Ivan Van Norman, highlighting his contributions to the gaming world through companies like Hunters Entertainment and Darrington Press. Ivan expresses his enthusiasm for the collaboration and his role in shaping the gaming landscape.

Notable Quote:

• Ivan Van Norman ([02:06]): “I enjoy all of our lovely conversations, whenever we get to have them at various cons across the world, all the time. And it's good to be able to talk games with you a little bit.”

2. Ivan’s Journey into Tabletop Role-Playing Games

Ivan recounts his entry into the TTRPG scene about 15 years ago, stemming from his time in college with fellow enthusiasts. The pivotal moment came when he and his friends decided to create their own game, inspired by the growing popularity of zombie-themed entertainment.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([04:04]): “We played D and D with. We were literally in a fraternity that played D and D. That would kind of tell you, like, how nerdy it was.”
• Ivan Van Norman ([05:12]): “We took out a loan and paid for a booth at Gen Con... we had a deadline and we made it. We barely made it, but we made it.”

3. The Creation of Outbreak Undead

Before Daggerheart, Ivan and his team developed Outbreak Undead, a zombie survival simulation RPG. They navigated the challenges of game design, marketing, and funding, ultimately finding success through community support and strategic participation in events like Gen Con.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([05:09]): “None of us had printed a book before... but we did it because people liked it and paid cash.”
• Dan Casey ([07:00]): “It's important to identify what makes the game unique and good. And two, is it serving a marketplace?”

4. Facilitation of Play and Communal Experience

The conversation shifts to the communal nature of TTRPGs, emphasizing the importance of shared storytelling and the challenges posed by high barriers to entry compared to other hobbies.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([10:16]): “The barrier of entry for RPGs is also so high in comparison to like hobbies.”
• Dan Casey ([09:35]): “Tabletop gaming in general is by and large, it is a communal act. You're coming together with your friends...”

5. Transition to Daggerheart: Concept and Vision

Dan introduces Daggerheart, a fantasy role-playing game aimed at enhancing collaborative storytelling. Ivan explains the genesis of Daggerheart within Darrington Press, highlighting its unique mechanics and storytelling focus.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([28:57]): “Daggerheart is a fantasy role-playing game that really takes that to heart. It wants its players to contribute to the story in a way that is really meaningful.”
• Dan Casey ([29:45]): “It’s an engine for infinite storytelling...”

6. Innovative Mechanics: 2D12 System, Hope and Fear

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the innovative mechanics of Daggerheart. Unlike traditional systems that use a single D20, Daggerheart employs two D12s, offering a more stable probability distribution. Additionally, the introduction of "Hope" and "Fear" as resources provides dynamic storytelling tools.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([30:01]): “We have broken a lot of the core mechanic down into a 2D12 system...”
• Ivan Van Norman ([33:45]): “With succeed with fear or succeed with hope... every dice move moves the story forward.”

7. Iterative Playtesting and Development Process

Ivan emphasizes the critical role of iterative playtesting in refining Daggerheart. From early versions to the final product, extensive playtesting allowed the team to balance mechanics like armor and ensure the game’s usability and enjoyment.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([37:23]): “Iterative playtesting and design, it's a marathon, right. In order to get it done.”
• Dan Casey ([35:38]): “It took a lot of people a lot of time to make this game.”

8. Community Engagement and Feedback

The success of Daggerheart is attributed to robust community engagement during its open beta phase. Ivan highlights how player feedback and diverse playtesting scenarios contributed to the game’s refinement and success.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([40:54]): “The sheer amount of play testing we were able to do... that allowed the heat into the furnace to be able to forge a much better weapon.”
• Dan Casey ([41:17]): “There's a real testament to the incredible critter community...”

9. Recommendations and Favorite Games

Towards the end of the episode, Ivan shares his favorite TTRPGs and board games, recommending titles like Ten Candles, Dread, and Raptor. He also touches upon the rising popularity of solo games like Sin Eater and the importance of diverse game mechanics in enriching player experiences.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([47:53]): “Dread is probably the best horror role-playing game, period, end of story, no questions.”
• Dan Casey ([50:20]): “Raptor sounds incredibly... asymmetrical and chess-like with cards.”

10. Closing Remarks and Future Projects

The episode concludes with Ivan promoting upcoming projects like Age of Umbra and encouraging listeners to engage with the community through various platforms. Both Ivan and Dan express their excitement for future gaming adventures and the continuous evolution of the TTRPG scene.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivan Van Norman ([54:18]): “You can find me... at Darrington Press and Hunters Entertainment.”
• Dan Casey ([55:39]): “Tell us, what games are you playing this week? What are you most excited to introduce to your table?”

Key Takeaways:

• Passion and Persistence: Ivan’s journey underscores the importance of passion, community support, and perseverance in game design.
• Innovative Mechanics Enhance Storytelling: Daggerheart’s unique 2D12 system and Hope/Fear mechanics demonstrate how new approaches can enrich player experiences and narrative depth.
• Community Engagement is Crucial: Active playtesting and community feedback are essential in refining game mechanics and ensuring market success.
• Diversity in Game Design: Embracing diverse game systems and mechanics can cater to varied player preferences and foster a vibrant gaming community.

Conclusion: This episode offers a comprehensive look into the intricate process of game development within the TTRPG industry. Ivan Van Norman’s insights provide aspiring game designers and enthusiasts with valuable lessons on creativity, community engagement, and the challenges of bringing a new game to life. Daggerheart stands as a testament to the evolving landscape of tabletop gaming, blending traditional elements with innovative mechanics to create a compelling and collaborative storytelling experience.